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Mr. Wree
2001-Nov-07, 02:16 PM
Who hasn't heard of people claiming to have been abducted by aliens who then had terrible things done to them? Or how they were abducted by aliens who are secretly studying us to see if we are worthy of true knowledge?

Yet, has any of us heard of any proof -- independently verifiabe evidence -- that the aliens in fact were extraterrestrial aliens?

Consider that during Columbus's fourth voyage to the New World he and crew came ashore on what is now Jamaica. They were in desperate need of supplies.

Columbus told the inland's inhabitants that he would on a very particular day make the moon disappear thereby showing the locals that if they did not give Columbus the supplies he needed he had the power to make the sun go away.

Sure enough, on the appointed day the moon was eclipsed and the locals gave Columbus whatever supplies he needed.

Why don't the aliens give the abductees independently verifiable proof of their
extraterrestrial origins and possession of advanced knowledge?

I say we should prepare people for the next abduction. You known, come up with a few questions for the aliens, a few pointed demands that they give us some real reason to believe they are from another planet in another solar system.

Now, they will have to tell us something that we don't already know, and it will have to be something that we can independently verify in a reasonable period of time -- something that is an extrapolation of knowledge we already possess but have not yet developed into that particluar insight into Nature.

Something like the exact mass and diameter of the largest Kuiper Belt object.

What should we ask the aliens that would prove they are space travelers possessing more advanced knowledge than us Earthers?

Mr. X
2001-Nov-07, 03:09 PM
Maybe it's because there are no aliens. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Regardless my question wouldn't give me insight on nature. It would be:
Why is there something instead of nothing? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif
[I'm not even sure I want the answer, but what the hey, just for myself /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif ]

If they can't answer this then I don't really care what they can or can't do, they aren't really any better than us. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

So they might just as well probe me and get it over with. Then spray me with rum. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Besides I wouldn't want to spoil scientific fun with quick answers from aliens. Go home E.T.s, we don't need your advice or your probes! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. X on 2001-11-07 10:10 ]</font>

ToSeek
2001-Nov-07, 03:30 PM
On 2001-11-07 09:16, Mr. Wree wrote:

What should we ask the aliens that would prove they are space travelers possessing more advanced knowledge than us Earthers?


Asking them about the Kuiper Belt doesn't sound very useful to me - they might not even know. (Why should they be that interested in our Kuiper Belt?) I'd ask them for some easily reproducible technology demonstration, like their best formula for a room-temperature superconductor.

(Of course, there are those who think that we should be thanking the aliens who crashed at Roswell for our lasers and transistors.) /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

SeanF
2001-Nov-07, 07:45 PM
Um, I'm a little lost on something here . . .

If the "aliens" were willing to prove they were aliens, they'd just land in the middle of some big city and start showing off.

The typical "alien abduction" is done in secret, with the apparent intent of nobody but the abductee being aware of what truly happened (and some times, not even him). Why would these secrecy-loving aliens be willing to provide independently verifiable proof to the person they've abducted?

Matherly
2001-Nov-07, 08:48 PM
Because they are not particularly bright secrecy-loving aliens?

{shrug}

It could happen.

Mr. Wree
2001-Nov-07, 09:20 PM
Um, it's not about aliens that people say they've already met. That would be assuming facts not in evidence. Abductions is here being used as a foil for our not altogether serious considerations of a future first contact situation.

The instructions are clear: "...come up with a few questions for the aliens, a few pointed demands that they give us some real reason to believe they are from another planet in another solar system. ...they will have to tell us something that we don't already know, and it will have to be something that we can independently verify in a reasonable period of time -- something that is an extrapolation of knowledge we already possess but have not yet developed into that particular insight into Nature."

It's really about thinking about what we already know and what we would deem conclusive proof that aliens are who they say they are, and about our first conversation with aliens not likely being in person.

<<...the exact mass and diameter of the largest Kuiper Belt object...>>

If aliens have traveled to our solar system they probably have made a survey of it before communicating with us, seeing things we haven't yet seen from Earth or spacecraft. If they can give us specifics we can check them out for ourselves, confirm them as facts in evidence, and begin to establish the aliens' alien bona fides.

Its about ideas to fit the scenario of the thought experiment, not about the potted plants being used for abiance.

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Wiley
2001-Nov-07, 10:22 PM
I think we should secretly implant GPS locators within potential abductees. The implant should kept secret from the abductee so that when the aliens use their mind probe, they will not discover the implant. Some of you doubting Thomases and Thomasinas may think that surreptitious implants are to prevent abductees from claiming that the abductions have stopped, but this definitely not the case.

Once the aliens abduct an implanted individual, it should be easy to track them and destroy them.

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-07, 10:50 PM
I think the fact that I was posing my test questions to a 2-meter tall horseshoe crab with opposable tentacles and gills with vocal cords would be sufficient evidence for me /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Donnie B. on 2001-11-07 17:51 ]</font>

Mr. Wree
2001-Nov-08, 12:10 AM
Note to self: Don't ask some-assembly-required-type questions, nor how to stop the flashing "12:00".

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Hauteden
2001-Nov-08, 05:37 AM
"Excuse me Mr./Mrs. Alien could you please provide me with the answers I seek? If you don't then I will believe you're just a figment of my imagination and this 750ml of Bacardi." /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I think if they took me someplace that I know couldn't be reached by "earthly" means that would substitute for a question. For example, "Take me to the Moon you got 8 hours."

Hauteden

Mr. X
2001-Nov-08, 12:09 PM
On 2001-11-07 19:10, Mr. Wree wrote:
Note to self: Don't ask some-assembly-required-type questions, nor how to stop the flashing "12:00".

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Even if they ARE aliens they'll be baffled by the japanish, the bad diagrams and menu commands or pieces that don't exist /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

2001-Nov-08, 12:32 PM
[quote]
On 2001-11-08 07:09, Mr. X wrote:
[quote]
On 2001-11-07 19:10, Mr. Wree wrote:
Note to self: Don't ask some-assembly-required-type questions, nor how to stop the flashing "12:00".
I live in a port city on the Pacific.
& the population heres increasing at as fast
a pace as can be emagined. {lots of water}
( in the form of the Columbia River )
Seeing all these "NEW" people walking about
always makes me wonder if about half of them
are not ET clones? 1. by speach patern 2. by nav skills 3 by age grouping

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUb' on 2001-11-08 07:33 ]</font>

Diogenes
2001-Nov-08, 12:36 PM
Is it just me, or did everyone ignore the spirit of the question..

Obviously, anyone(most anyway) who has been abducted by aliens, 'knows' they have been abducted by aliens. The mission, should they choose to accept it, is to bring back some indistputable proof that the abduction has taken place..

This thread will self destruct in 2 or 3 parsecs..

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-08, 08:18 PM
Actually, most of the so-called "abductees" have no memory of the "events" until they've been "hypnotized" or "regressed" by a "therapist".

(Heavy sarcasm implied by by all quoted words in the above sentence)

Kaptain K
2001-Nov-08, 09:45 PM
Heavy sarcasm implied by by all quoted words in the above sentence
Amen!!!
As a son of a shrink, I can testify that it is very easy to "lead" a hypnotized subject into fabricating a story to please the questioner. This is often without conscious desire on the part of the "therapist". My father played me tapes of regressions he had done. First, he played them straight through, without commentary. These tapes appeared to show subjects regressing to previous lives. He then replayed them, stopping to point out where he had led the subject. This was unintentional on his part, but it resulted in getting the results he had expected. It was not until much later, that he realised what he had done.

_________________
When in danger, or in doubt...
Run in circles, scream and shout.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaptain K on 2001-11-08 16:48 ]</font>

J-Man
2001-Nov-09, 04:33 AM
Let's ask the aliens if Pluto is a planet or not....
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Seriously though... I'd ask them how to make electricity without a steam/water/rotating shaft generator. Another qualifier would be, say, 50 times more power than any current chemical to electricity technology.

or how about

Asking them how they got here?

David Hall
2001-Nov-09, 03:41 PM
On 2001-11-07 17:22, Wiley wrote:
I think we should secretly implant GPS locators within potential abductees.

Isn't this what the aliens are already doing to us?

Azpod
2001-Nov-09, 07:50 PM
On 2001-11-07 09:16, Mr. Wree wrote:
*snip*

I say we should prepare people for the next abduction. You known, come up with a few questions for the aliens, a few pointed demands that they give us some real reason to believe they are from another planet in another solar system.

*snip*



Actually, they aren't from another solar system. In fact, they're not from a planet. They're actually tiny aliens from our own Moon. Shesh... the proof of that has been posted on here how many times, and you people still believe that we went to the Moon. I tell you, the aliens are winning the war for control of our minds!

Fight back! Watch more FOX. Become paranoid; suspect everyone. NASA is out to eat your children and do unholy things to your car!


/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

ToSeek
2001-Nov-09, 08:46 PM
On 2001-11-09 14:50, Azpod wrote:


Actually, they aren't from another solar system. In fact, they're not from a planet. They're actually tiny aliens from our own Moon.

Fight back! Watch more FOX. Become paranoid; suspect everyone. NASA is out to eat your children and do unholy things to your car!



You're not nearly paranoid enough. I mean, what makes you think those are the only aliens?

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-09, 08:51 PM
Yeah... and don't forget the demons in your basement. They're always there.

Trish
2001-Nov-10, 11:47 AM
On 2001-11-07 16:20, Mr. Wree wrote:
Um, it's not about aliens that people say they've already met. That would be assuming facts not in evidence. Abductions is here being used as a foil for our not altogether serious considerations of a future first contact situation.


If this is the situation - then - would an alien sufficiently different from us in a biological sense be a form of evidence. We can hope first contact is not an abduction.

[Someone would actually wonder if I can type.]
_________________
Time crumbles things; everything grows old under the power of Time and is forgotten through the lapse of Time.
~Aristotle

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Trish on 2001-11-10 06:52 ]</font>

Mr. Wree
2001-Nov-11, 12:35 AM
Azpod,

<<...[sarcasm] ...>>

The main difference between your sarcasm and mine is that you felt the need to warn people of your intension to be sarcastic while I was willing to wait and see who might recognize my own by honest ability.

I dare say I showed people more respect than you (even if it was more than was deserved).

:rolleyes:

Simon
2001-Nov-11, 10:56 AM
We could always ask them why they don't just land in Times Square and say "hi!"

Timm
2001-Nov-11, 09:21 PM
Are to ignorant too see it?
Are you too afraid to see the truth?
They are already here! (http://www.catsarefrommars.com)

Edit: great, maybe they could teach me how to type...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Timm on 2001-11-11 16:23 ]</font>

Azpod
2001-Nov-12, 10:12 PM
On 2001-11-10 19:35, Mr. Wree wrote:
Azpod,

<<...[sarcasm] ...>>

The main difference between your sarcasm and mine is that you felt the need to warn people of your intension to be sarcastic while I was willing to wait and see who might recognize my own by honest ability.

I dare say I showed people more respect than you (even if it was more than was deserved).

:rolleyes:




I only did that because sarcasm doesn't translate well in text. I've seen the truth in that statement more times than I can count.

After all, how many people who visit this site do think that alien abductions and such are real? How would they know that a sarcastic statement about alien abductions is actually sarcastic, especially if they believe something similar to the statement in question.

I could make a sarcastic statement about building a FTL spacecraft out of bubble gum wrappers, and it probably wouldn't be hard to find someone who would think that I was seriously trying to do exactly that. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Iain Lambert
2001-Nov-14, 01:48 PM
As the great Carl Sagan said, just request a short proof of Fermat's Last Theorem. Andrew Wiles solved it (albeit in a form that isn't easily recitable) so if they know aliens capable of crossing vast interstellar distances this should be a piece of cake. Otherwise, a nice set of quantum gravity equations would be rather handy. An exploit of their FTL craft to achieve time travel and then get me next month's lottery numbers wouldn't go amiss either /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

The Rat
2001-Nov-16, 02:50 AM
Gotta go with J-Man on this one; ask them how the hell they got here! That's about the only worthwhile first question.

In the meantime I sleep with my Nikonos under my pillow just in case they are an aquatic species.

;^)

The Rat
2001-Nov-16, 02:57 AM
On 2001-11-14 08:48, Iain Lambert wrote:As the great Carl Sagan said, just request a short proof of Fermat's Last Theorem.
Actually, I think this would be termed 'sufficient but not necessary'. Now, understand that you're conversing with someone who couldn't get past high school math, but I don't think that it's required to know the answer to Fermat's last theorom in order to navigate between the stars.

JollyGreenSatan
2001-Nov-26, 08:20 AM
I would ask the aliens if watching "Independence Day" made them frantically update their anti-virus database on their (Mac-compatible) server; 'cause if they didn't, we just might unleash intergalactic hacker Jeff Goldblum on 'em. That'll fix their wagons!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JollyGreenSatan on 2001-11-26 20:19 ]</font>

Azpod
2001-Dec-01, 07:54 PM
On 2001-11-08 23:33, J-Man wrote:
Seriously though... I'd ask them how to make electricity without a steam/water/rotating shaft generator. Another qualifier would be, say, 50 times more power than any current chemical to electricity technology.


So having a solar power cell is proof of sone's alien abduction? Man... the aliens' mind wipe machine is good! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Diogenes
2001-Dec-03, 07:49 PM
Just thought I would recap my observation at the begining of this thread...

The question was " how would you prove you had been abducted"...

Bringing back some advanced technology, or the answer to a question that had not been answered before, still would not prove that one had been in the presence of aliens.

Bob S.
2001-Dec-04, 03:26 PM
Some high-tech gizmo or new math theory would be nice, but how could you then prove it was not cooked up in an MIT or CalTech basement lab?
Real proof would be biological proof. In your struggle to avoid the anal probe ("Hey man! This sucks!"), scratch one. Bring back a skin and blood sample. All life on Earth shares certain common traits (4 base pairs, DNA helix spin direction, etc.). Bringing back tissue samples with additional base pairs or organic isomers not found in terrestrial cells would be pretty good proof that it developed somewhere else.

Azpod
2001-Dec-05, 06:33 AM
On 2001-12-04 10:26, Bob S. wrote:
All life on Earth shares certain common traits (4 base pairs, DNA helix spin direction, etc.). Bringing back tissue samples with additional base pairs or organic isomers not found in terrestrial cells would be pretty good proof that it developed somewhere else.


Assuming that the aliens had such biological features, this would be pretty convincing. However, there is always the chance that we do find life on Earth in some strange place that doesn't have the same characteristics as life everywhere else here. There is also the very real chance that all life in the universe has 4 base pairs as well as other properties of life found here.

Still, if I'm getting the 50 foot satellite dish crammed up my rear end, I'll be sure to keep the presence of mind to scrape off a tissue sample, just in case. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

The Rat
2001-Dec-05, 02:19 PM
In your struggle to avoid the anal probe...

According to this week's "Weekly World News", that paragon of journalistic integrity, Jennifer Lopez has an alien implant in her buttocks.

And if you think for one minute that I'm going any further with that one, you're mistaken.

Phil has standards for this board.

;^)