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View Full Version : how many billions of years we got left?



Plat
2004-Jul-02, 04:00 AM
before the universe can no longer sustain intelligent or non-intelligent life?.....and will there be another big bang after the big rip

Excelsior
2004-Jul-02, 06:52 AM
I heard of two different possible ends for the universe. One is the big crunch where the universe will collapse into a single super massive black hole. Another is cold death where all the hydrogen fuel in the universe will run out and all the stars will die.

jt-3d
2004-Jul-02, 10:57 AM
42

Oh, who didn't see that coming?

TriangleMan
2004-Jul-02, 11:04 AM
As an accountant I think we should round to the nearest trillion years so I'll say the universe will end in about 1. :wink:

On a more serious note the lastest special edition of Astronomy magazine had an article on this that was supportive of the "long, cold death" scenario, due to dark energy casuing an unending expansion of the universe. It also estimated that using up most of the hydrogen in the universe would take 100-300 billion years or so.

Wally
2004-Jul-02, 12:01 PM
On a more serious note the lastest special edition of Astronomy magazine had an article on this that was supportive of the "long, cold death" scenario, due to dark energy casuing an unending expansion of the universe. It also estimated that using up most of the hydrogen in the universe would take 100-300 billion years or so.

darn! I better get my papers in order. . .

Kullat Nunu
2004-Jul-02, 12:37 PM
On a more serious note the lastest special edition of Astronomy magazine had an article on this that was supportive of the "long, cold death" scenario, due to dark energy casuing an unending expansion of the universe. It also estimated that using up most of the hydrogen in the universe would take 100-300 billion years or so.

If the Universe expansion keeps accelerating at current speed, it will be rather empty place. In 100 billion years every galaxy beyond the Virgo supercluster will disappear forever.

TriangleMan
2004-Jul-02, 02:33 PM
If the Universe expansion keeps accelerating at current speed, it will be rather empty place. In 100 billion years every galaxy beyond the Virgo supercluster will disappear forever.
The Astonomy article estimated, IIRC, 40-50 billion years for that. It also proposed that only the Local Group would be around, gravity wouldn't be enough to keep the Local Group attached to the Virgo Supercluster.

Emspak
2004-Jul-02, 02:46 PM
IIRC, after the expansion pulls everything beyond our own galaxy out of reach, you then get the problem of gravity itself not sustaining the galaxy, and then the solar system, and then the forces that hold molecules together and eventually subatomic particles break down.

So figure about 1 trillion years I think before the matter that makes up anything starts to break up.

In the meantime, of course, the stars die out and become black dwarfs, or neutron stars. I was thinking there would still be the remnants of brown dwarfs and the occasional rocky body for a long time yet. Yu could mine black holes for energy for a really long time.

George
2004-Jul-02, 02:59 PM
Until I see a reason for the acceleration of the expansion, it's just a wild guess. If the Higgs field concept is applicable, the acceleration should stop at some point and we should stay a little warmer. If M-theory is applicable then tell me how "far" it is to impact with the brane coming toward us. :)

eburacum45
2004-Jul-02, 04:05 PM
Nice timeline of the future of the universe here;
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/universe/historywave.html

we can more or less rule out the Big Crunch, but it is the Big Rip which is the wild card; if expansion continues to accelerate, the galaxy, planets, and atoms of our universe will be ripped apart at a date yet to de accurately determined (but many billions of years from now).


For more exploration of this fascinating topic and strategies for survival in the face of eternity, try
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096491/entry/2096506/

and
http://www.physics.hku.hk/~tboyce/sf/topics/life/life.html

Brady Yoon
2004-Jul-02, 05:32 PM
The special edition Astronomy Magazine Origin and Fate of the Universe says

150 billion years later, no light beyond our galaxy can be seen.

In 10 trillion years, conventional star formation stops.

In 10^14 years (100 trillion years), the lowest mass red dwarfs wiill stop burning hydrogen.

In 10^15 years, planets will leave their stars (I don't know why that would happen... :o )

skip way ahead..

In 10^100 years, the largest black holes disappear, and only photons and stray particles are left.

Wow, the current age of our universe, is practically nothing when you consider the future of our universe.

Plat
2004-Jul-02, 06:07 PM
but do you guys think there will be another big bang that will create a new universe, because "matter cannot be created nor destroyed" right?

ps: i am obsessing about this because i am a strong believer in reincarnation

and how old is our universe in human years, eg. 10, 12, 14, etc?

eburacum45
2004-Jul-02, 06:30 PM
The recurrence of the inflationary scenario- a series of new big bangs in other words - is considered here in this rather technical paper;
http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/9909/9909143.pdf

the author suggests that the information required to replicate an entire civilisation could be placed inside some sort of durable container and left to wait for the next universe to come along...

probably a very long wait, many times the expected lifetime of our universe; with nothing much happening except the formation of spontaneous black holes, which would capture and destroy our hypothetical message in a bottle.


But a tiny fraction of these messages might survive, allowing a particularly persistent civilisation to perpetuate itself.

Wally
2004-Jul-02, 07:20 PM
but do you guys think there will be another big bang that will create a new universe, because "matter cannot be created nor destroyed" right?

ps: i am obsessing about this because i am a strong believer in reincarnation

and how old is our universe in human years, eg. 10, 12, 14, etc?

Probably no more big bang for us, unless the expansion slows down and reverses itself.

Using 100 billion years to go, then we're in our "tween" years (12 or so). Just starting to stretch our independence from mom and dad. Using 300 billion, we're just about ready for kindergarden.

TriangleMan
2004-Jul-02, 07:50 PM
Aren't there some aspects of brane-theory that suggests the universe was created due to a collision of two branes, in which case another collision could conceivably occur at any time?

(sidenote: not sure if all of this stuff on branes is really a theory since I don't think there are testable predictions for it)

John Dlugosz
2004-Jul-02, 08:37 PM
the author suggests that the information required to replicate an entire civilisation could be placed inside some sort of durable container and left to wait for the next universe to come along...

But a tiny fraction of these messages might survive, allowing a particularly persistent civilisation to perpetuate itself.

I was thinking about that the other day, too.

The writeups always say how baryonic matter will decay eventually, as protons go pop. But that's only a small portion of the Universe! Maybe dark matter will keep business as usual. Maybe the real fun won't start until afterwards!

Given dark energy as an infinite energy source, such a "durable container" can keep itself going. Why not the civilization itself? With galaxy-sized generators extracting energy from the vacuum expansion, keep living/computing/whatever.

If a new "bang" occurs in the vast emptyness, we don't want that to destroy the stuff.

George
2004-Jul-02, 09:09 PM
Aren't there some aspects of brane-theory that suggests the universe was created due to a collision of two branes, in which case another collision could conceivably occur at any time?

(sidenote: not sure if all of this stuff on branes is really a theory since I don't think there are testable predictions for it)
Try one of Brian Greene's books and see if you still hold that view. :)

From my readings of his writtings, M-theory does seem to suggest brane's colliding and forming a "big splat". Both the isotropy and anisotropy (quantum jitters still), would match CMB findings, apparently.

Another future collision is one possible reason for the acceleration of the expansion. cuidado (watch out) :o .

Brady Yoon
2004-Jul-03, 12:53 AM
The oscillating universe sounds much more appealing to me, even though we wouldn't survive to see the next universe. It would imply that there isn't any beginning; that the universe has always been there and always will be there.

Plat
2004-Jul-03, 01:51 AM
Aren't there some aspects of brane-theory that suggests the universe was created due to a collision of two branes, in which case another collision could conceivably occur at any time?


i read this too somewhere

Plat
2004-Jul-03, 01:52 AM
The oscillating universe sounds much more appealing to me, even though we wouldn't survive to see the next universe. It would imply that there isn't any beginning; that the universe has always been there and always will be there.

one word....reincarnation

Gullible Jones
2004-Jul-03, 01:56 AM
The oscillating universe may be appealing, but judging from the increasing rate of expansion, it is unlikely. Then again, inflation didn't last forever.

It is currently thought that the years the universe has left number in the trillions, at the very least. Most of that time, though, it wil be quite inhospitable to life, and I can't say that we humans will be around for more than a few thousand more years... A few million at maximum, but considering our warlike tendencies, I doubt that.

Plat
2004-Jul-03, 02:50 AM
so do you think there will be another big bang? :lol:

Gullible Jones
2004-Jul-03, 04:32 AM
In a word, no.

Plat
2004-Jul-03, 05:24 AM
In a word, no.

thats depressing

imagine when all the galaxies are all separated......that must suck

Plat
2004-Jul-03, 05:02 PM
okay, how many trillion years left can the universe sustain life as we know it

Brady Yoon
2004-Jul-03, 07:40 PM
okay, how many trillion years left can the universe sustain life as we know it

Until protons decay, which is in about 10^30 years, or a million trillion trillion years. The universe is only 13.7 billion years old, so that's a long way off. It's amazing how young the universe is right now if the accelerating universe is correct.

Plat
2004-Jul-03, 11:26 PM
yeah its like a little kid, i think there will be endless numbers of big bangs

Plat
2004-Jul-04, 01:52 AM
http://www.marxist.com/scienceandtech/big_bang.html

Plat
2004-Jul-04, 06:17 AM
anybody?