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NEOWatcher
2011-Oct-06, 06:02 PM
Ok; I got suckered...

Earlier this year, I bought a new car without a spare tire. A spare tire came with a certain expensive "package". Or as an expensive option.
I probably would have gone for it anyway if it wasn't for 3 things:
1) The emergency package sounded like I wouldn't have an issue if I got a flat. (of course, the salesman told me about it :doh:)
2) I don't ever remember a having a complete flat. Punctures and other leaks, yes, but never bad enough that I couldn't make it to a service station or home so I could eventually have it repaired or replaced.
3) It was an option that sounded like I could eventually have it added on.

Well, I ran over something on the way home. I thought "no problem, call for assistance." They were very nice and helpful and everything seemed to be going along fine. At least until the tow truck showed up. Not really a tow truck, but a beat up pickup truck converted to a tow truck.
It turns out, that the assistance only will cover a tow to a dealership, or changing the tire with the spares (Uhm...Guys, you sold me on not having the spare because of the assistance)
So; It was too late for the dealers to be open. So; I had 2 options:
1) Tow it to the dealer and let the car sit along the road in front of the dealership until morning when they open the gate.
Ok; a few years ago, I was in the same situation where I had it towed after hours. I called the police to let them know what was going on, and they let me know they would have towed it if I didn't.
So; between that hassle involved, and construction around the dealership, that was out.
2) Let the tow company store it overnight, and take it to the dealer in the morning.
The tow company lot is in a very high crime area. I'll be <expletive> if I'm gonna let a new car sit there.
So; I requested that I have it towed to my house on the grounds that I live within a few blocks of the dealer, and that I will get the car there in the morning, and I had no way to get home anyway.
After a chain of approvals through phone calls by the tow company, they said "sure". About 10 minutes later, the assistance called and said "that will cost you $x because it's not to a dealership.

Ok; learned my lesson always have a spare. I told the dealer I want to buy the spare package. Guess what? They can't find any anywhere that they can sell me.
Oh; by the way, all the 2012 models come standard with a compact spare... go figure.

According to some news articles spawned by the manufacturer, not having a spare tire is a "safety feature" because it's so dangerous changing your tire at the side of the road. :naughty:
Oh; You mean waiting an hour and a half at the side of the road for a tow isn't?

And I thought not being able to get a waterproof entry key (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/119281-Electronic-key-duplicate) was bad enough.

Swift
2011-Oct-06, 06:50 PM
That stinks enough that I would write a letter of complaint to the corporate offices of the auto company. It probably won't produce anything for you (but you never know) and ranting to them always makes me feel better.

danscope
2011-Oct-06, 07:08 PM
When we buy a car, we ALWAYS go to the bone yard and get a rim (road wheel) and if possible, a fairly good tire for it ,mount and balance it
and in the process.....save ourselves lots of money and grief down the road. Murphy's Law states that the likelyhood of needing a spare tire is a direct function of how far you are from civilization , the nastyness of the weather and whether or not you actually have a spare tire with you.
Spare tires. It's a good thing.
I have a sailboat. I always take extra fuel and other sails with me.... and a host of other equipment. Murphy's Law of the Sea is rather extensive and occasionally more severe .
My own personal marching orders are ...." Be Prepared " . Hmmmm...I wonder where I learned that little gem.

Oh...by the way; those little low profile "Performance" rims you see on some cars are expensive, vulnerable and perhaps not the best idea for
trouble free driving. Just my opinion.
Good luck.
Dan

Fazor
2011-Oct-06, 07:15 PM
We just bought a new (well, slightly used) car . . . and now I'm not sure if it has a spare! I just sorta assumed (regular) cars always came with them. I knew pickups and some SUVs sometimes required it to be a special package . . .

redshifter
2011-Oct-06, 07:21 PM
Are we talking about a 'full size' spare, or the little space saving donut spare designed to get you to where you can repair/replace the damaged tire? Seems like every car I've bought in the last 15 years had a little donut spare as standard equipment.

NEOWatcher
2011-Oct-06, 08:01 PM
That stinks enough that I would write a letter of complaint to the corporate offices of the auto company. It probably won't produce anything for you (but you never know) and ranting to them always makes me feel better.
I did get information on how to file a claim for a refund on the tow. All those points will be included in the letter.


When we buy a car, we ALWAYS go to the bone yard and get a rim (road wheel) and if possible, a fairly good tire for it ,mount and balance it...
I had a car once where I couldn't even do that. (I had extra tires and wanted the rims, but it was a foreign 70's model) No rims to be found.


Oh...by the way; those little low profile "Performance" rims you see on some cars are expensive, vulnerable and perhaps not the best idea for
trouble free driving. Just my opinion.
I completely agree. I had enough cost replacing one alloy rim damaged even with high profile tires.


Are we talking about a 'full size' spare, or the little space saving donut spare designed to get you to where you can repair/replace the damaged tire? Seems like every car I've bought in the last 15 years had a little donut spare as standard equipment.
I would be happy with a "donut". At least that would have got me home or to the dealer.
For it to actually mount in the trunk, I have to get a new trunk interior to go with the tire.

Middenrat
2011-Oct-07, 01:29 AM
Or do without the option and carry a can of pressurised run-flat goop to get you to a tyre shop. Motorcyclists can do little else.

LookingSkyward
2011-Oct-07, 09:33 AM
The donut spares save weight and help the fuel economy rating for the car. I always replace it with a real wheel and tire as soon as I can, but then I drive about 200 mile reound trip every day.

NEOWatcher
2011-Oct-07, 01:16 PM
Or do without the option and carry a can of pressurised run-flat goop to get you to a tyre shop. Motorcyclists can do little else.
I haven't had much luck with that stuff even for very slow leaks.
And that was the other embarrassment. The car came with a tire inflator and goop. It was so hidden away that I never knew it was there.
Even with my goop experience, it would have been worth a try.
While looking for a picture, I ran across this article:
Hey, buddy, can you spare a spare? (http://www.chieftain.com/business/local/hey-buddy-can-you-spare-a-spare/article_4336fa6c-de7c-11e0-a74d-001cc4c03286.html)

This year, more than 14 percent of new models on sale in the U.S. came with liquid tire sealant and a portable electric air pump instead of a spare.

Now my question would be if I had used it, is it refillable?

Grey
2011-Oct-07, 01:41 PM
I once had a blowout on the highway. It was a car we had bought used. When trying to mount the (full size) spare tire, I discovered to my dismay that the rim was the right size, but the placement of the holes for the lugs did not match the wheel. Somehow it must have ended up with the wrong rim when we bought the car (I was also surprised that the spacing of the lugs isn't just completely standard). Fortunately, there was a service station in sight a few hundred yards away on the other side, so I rolled the flat tire and the spare down the road. They were willing to take the good tire off the spare and mount it on the other rim.

I can't imagine driving a car without any spare tire at all. There are, even today, plenty of places where you might not be able to call for help.

Trebuchet
2011-Oct-07, 02:49 PM
The donut spares save weight and help the fuel economy rating for the car. I always replace it with a real wheel and tire as soon as I can, but then I drive about 200 mile reound trip every day.

That's assuming a full-sized wheel & tire will fit in the space provided. Often it won't, there's just enough room for the compact.

redshifter
2011-Oct-07, 06:13 PM
I haven't had much luck with that stuff even for very slow leaks.
And that was the other embarrassment. The car came with a tire inflator and goop. It was so hidden away that I never knew it was there.
Even with my goop experience, it would have been worth a try.
While looking for a picture, I ran across this article:
Hey, buddy, can you spare a spare? (http://www.chieftain.com/business/local/hey-buddy-can-you-spare-a-spare/article_4336fa6c-de7c-11e0-a74d-001cc4c03286.html)


Now my question would be if I had used it, is it refillable?

The last time I had a blowout, the sidewall of the tire ripped open, and I drove on it for as long as it took to pull over--which was long enough to result in a roughly 12 inch gash in the sidewall. Goop and a pump wouldn't do anything for that scenario. In fact, of all the blowouts I've had, only 1 was because of a small hole that goop and a pump might've fixed.

Fazor
2011-Oct-07, 06:58 PM
The last time I had a blowout, the sidewall of the tire ripped open, and I drove on it for as long as it took to pull over--which was long enough to result in a roughly 12 inch gash in the sidewall. Goop and a pump wouldn't do anything for that scenario. In fact, of all the blowouts I've had, only 1 was because of a small hole that goop and a pump might've fixed.

Same. I've had 4 flats. 2 would have *possibly* been patchable with a kit. One tire was pretty much completely obliterated when it blew at speed on the freeway (chunks of the tire shattered the plastic wheel guard, and the metal banding inside the tire was exposed. Don't think they make a can for that) and the other was a side-wall gash.

I wouldn't feel safe without a spare. Full sized would be nice, but just something to get me somewhere. I'm not a gear head, but I can handle a tire change (after all, I've had to do it four times now!)

danscope
2011-Oct-07, 11:05 PM
Another point is to get your money's worth from the salesman at the dealer (assuming you purchased it there) and take advantage of the instruction he can give you. THAT is his job, not just the sale. Many cars today have a host of features not apparent to the owner. I had bought a used Subaru Outback with a stick shift
and had never seen cruise control offered on a stick. 6 months later , I discovered the control and lo and behold, it works. :) Also, there is a rack mount on top.
It requires a special metric torx wrench to adjust it (and should come with the car) but was missing. They were obliged to get one for me.
Get what you pay for. If you don't ask , some of them are comfortable sending you on your way. Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find.
This works .
Best regards,
Dan

HenrikOlsen
2011-Oct-08, 02:06 AM
I though torx is a standard that's neither metric not archaic but just has specific standard sizes.

danscope
2011-Oct-08, 03:51 AM
Hi, You may be right. The point is that I purchased a "complete" automobile from a dealer. You have to hold their feet to the fire to get what you require.

Dan

novaderrik
2011-Oct-08, 07:50 AM
Another point is to get your money's worth from the salesman at the dealer (assuming you purchased it there) and take advantage of the instruction he can give you. THAT is his job, not just the sale. Many cars today have a host of features not apparent to the owner. I had bought a used Subaru Outback with a stick shift
and had never seen cruise control offered on a stick. 6 months later , I discovered the control and lo and behold, it works. :) Also, there is a rack mount on top.
It requires a special metric torx wrench to adjust it (and should come with the car) but was missing. They were obliged to get one for me.
Get what you pay for. If you don't ask , some of them are comfortable sending you on your way. Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find.
This works .
Best regards,
Dan

they were only obliged to give you the vehicle that you originally agreed to buy- they gave you the $3 wrench to make you feel like to got something out of them and keep you coming back for more.

regarding spare tires- go to the dealer parts department and ask how much a spare wheel/tire, jack, and lug wrench for your car costs.. if it's a lot, then head to a local junkyard and find stuff that will work for you, and try it in the parking lot before you leave.. a lot of different vehicles might have the same wheel bolt pattern, but things like brake calipers can keep a wheel from actually bolting down.. also make sure it fits in the spare tire well before you leave, unless you don't mind having a tire and jack just sitting in the trunk taking up space.
i don't know what particular make and model is being talked about here, but you might be able to pick up the parts you need out of a brand new car that was in a collision or was otherwise totaled out for some reason or even get a good spare/jack/lug wrench from a 10 year old vehicle that will work on yours and has never actually been used.

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-12, 05:29 PM
BUMP
It seems I have left this thread without clearing up some unanswered questions.
So; let me first clear some things up.

The car does have a wheel well in the trunk to fit a space saver spare and tire change hardware. It was just disguised as a compartment in the floor of the trunk.

The rim, mounting kit, jack and wrench are (and always were) available from the dealer. Only the actual tire wasn't to be had anywhere.

I ruled out the junkyard idea because I wouldn't have been sure if another spare would have been compatible. Plus; I've been in this situation before... Having a part unavailable as an aftermarket, only to find that that's the first thing stripped from a new wreck. In the previous case, it was a simple little rubber ring in a cupholder that steadies the beverage. The only aftermarket part was the entire center console.
And; even in that case, it was a standard part. With the spare tire, it was only a factory option, so the chances of finding a wreck that had one in the first place was slim.

Now; the reason for the bump... I FINALLY found one. It's being shipped to me.
And; it only took about 2 years of periodic searching. Found a discussion board where someone else found a distributer.

Gillianren
2013-Aug-12, 06:30 PM
That's insane. And reminds me that I should probably check to see if there's a spare tire in what I believe to be a spare tire compartment under our trunk floor.

When we drove down to California to pick up my dollhouse last summer, we discovered tire wear while we were in Oakland that looked like we were at risk for a blowout. That was on the way south. No spare. Only one of us had ever been driving during a blowout before, so he drove almost the entire remainder of the trip. We actually made it, and they replaced the tire within hours of getting home.

Trebuchet
2013-Aug-12, 07:10 PM
That's insane. And reminds me that I should probably check to see if there's a spare tire in what I believe to be a spare tire compartment under our trunk floor.

And if there is, you might want to see if there is air in it. I learned that the hard way a few years ago.

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-12, 07:43 PM
And if there is, you might want to see if there is air in it. I learned that the hard way a few years ago.
I learned the easy way. I once had a VW Beetle. The windshield washer fluid was pumped using the air pressure from the spare tire. So; it became a habit to keep it pumped up.
It was a pain in the neck until I rigged up a washer pump and push button on the washer valve lever.

Although flat, the spare was still needed. It helped add weight to the front wheels for steering.

JohnD
2013-Aug-12, 09:03 PM
Neo,
That "goop" in an aerosol is good stuff.

The other day I had a blow out, on the motorway, on my trailer.
[Translation - 'Freeway'? and trailer as in single car transporter trailer, not a big lorry/truck]

One tyre was in rags, the other on the same side was punctured - twin axle trailer.
I had a spare wheel/tyre, but the punctured one was bound to go the same way, if I ran any distance on it.
My tin of "goop" inflated and sealed the tyre and let me run another twenty miles to the next town, and then round and about it to find a tyre place. I could have run four times as far with complete safety, although lower speed (,60) is recommended.
Unless your tyre is blown out, and you are not too far from home, that "goop" will get you home!
JOhn

PS IF you do want to find a used car wheel that will fit yours, the critical parameters are the diameter of the wheel and th "Pitch circle diameter", the circle on which all the wheel studs sit. Most manufacturers will use the same PCD for all their models, and their wheels are largely interchangeable, if the same diameter. Don't worrry about width - a 'compact wheel' that some makers offer will be a lot narrower that the standard wheel as it is intended to take up less space than a full sized one. But if it is narrower, then the tyre on it must have a wall ratio that will give you the same tyre diameter.
This site may help you find other models of your manufacturer that have interchangable wheels with yours: http://www.alloywheels.com/Alloy-Wheels-Fitment-Guide

slang
2013-Aug-12, 09:31 PM
The car came with a tire inflator and goop. It was so hidden away that I never knew it was there.

I"m not sure if it is the same now as it was in 2007, but I believe it is mandatory here to carry that stuff if you don't carry a spare tire. In my car the spare tire was removed, and the space used to put in a small LPG tank (MUCH cheaper than petrol(gas) here). The kit does have an expiry date, and needs to be replaced occasionally. Was it such a kit that you couldn't find online?

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-13, 12:56 PM
Neo,
That "goop" in an aerosol is good stuff.
In this case, it would have been fine.

It was my unfamiliarity of the car's equipment that caused me to fail. I never had a car equipped that way, and in an emergency, you tend not to think things through or investigate like you should.

But; there are limits to the size and location of the hole. Certainly a tread hole is easier since it has a longer channel to fill, but sidewalls are a different story. Mine is rated 1/4 inch in the tread.


PS IF you do want to find a used car wheel that will fit yours, the critical parameters are the diameter of the wheel and th "Pitch circle diameter", the circle on which all the wheel studs sit.
I probably wouldn't have trusted myself figuring that out. I tried to talk to the dealer about that, and they weren't familiar with it.
At the time, it was a new model, so they weren't experienced with the specs. They did seem to take the effort to communicate with various tire distributers.

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-13, 12:58 PM
The kit does have an expiry date, and needs to be replaced occasionally. Was it such a kit that you couldn't find online?
No, it was the tire.
I'm not worried about the inflater kit, because once I use the goop, or it expires, then all I have to do is pick up a new can. It doesn't matter if it's an actual "refill" to the kit.

redshifter
2013-Aug-13, 10:37 PM
Before I read through this thread, I thought it might be a poll about middle age weight gain...

Trebuchet
2013-Aug-13, 11:47 PM
Before I read through this thread, I thought it might be a poll about middle age weight gain...

In fact, I was just going to say something about the one around my middle!

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-14, 06:08 PM
Ok; I have the tire! Yahoo.
It's always something though.

I either need to order a floor liner for the trunk, or "modify" the one I have now. I think I'll choose the latter.
In the no-spare option, the floor is molded so the wheelwell portion is actually a compartment with a subcompartment for the pump. I'll have to cut all that off. The compartment door will be useless too. It's too small to access the spare. But; I would probably need to pull everything out of the trunk to access the tire when the need arises anyway, so I don't mind pulling the entire liner.

The other amusing thing is this...
the Jack
the Jack handle (sold seperately?) which doubles as the wrench
the compartment to hold that together
the support bracket for it all.
the rim
... are all readily available (1 to 2 day) parts
The $5 bolt to mount it all together? Special order up to 2 weeks.

Trebuchet
2013-Aug-14, 08:19 PM
Baby birdies at my feeders. Not nestlings, but the ones that are nearly done with their fledging and have learned to fly. They're a little clumsy, in a cute way, and look a little ragged. Several of them have no tail feathers at all, which must make flying an interesting experience. They somehow manage it anyhow.

ETA: Clearly I posted this in the wrong thread! Now I'm picturing baby birdies with spare tires.

captain swoop
2013-Aug-16, 01:41 AM
In the UK the law says a car ahs a to have a spare wheel fitted with a legal tyre and a jack.

It would be unheard of for a spare to be an optional extra!

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-16, 02:44 PM
In the UK the law says a car ahs a to have a spare wheel fitted with a legal tyre and a jack.
Are you sure?

It seems to be happening in your neck of the woods too.
Why don't cars have spare tyres any more? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228999/David-Derbyshire-Why-dont-cars-spare-tyres-more.html)


Out of the top ten best-selling cars in Britain, only the Volkswagen Golf now comes with a full spare tyre as standard.
Lucky owners of top-of-the-range new cars get skinny space-saving spare tyres [...]
A few find their cars are delivered kitted with four ‘run-flat tyres’[...]
But the unfortunate ones — the owners of the bottom-of-the-range Honda Jazz, Renault Clio and Vauxhall Astra, for example — have to make do with a sealant kit.

LoneTree1941
2013-Aug-17, 05:36 PM
I buy only vans and the spare is stored under the chassis. During the entire time I owned my last one, a 2003 traded in in 2012, I never had a single flat in 100k miles. I've always bought the best tires I could afford, in part because I didn't want to ever have to deal with extracting the spare out from underneath, particularly out on the interetates. One year, about to leave on a driving vacation, I bought new tires even though the old ones still had at least a quarter inch of tread remaining.

Trebuchet
2013-Aug-17, 06:41 PM
The last flat I had was due to inadvertently driving over a curb at the bank. I had to change it in the parking lot of the supermarket, the next stop. I hope there's a special place down below for the guy who designed the jack for the 2005 Ford Ranger. It's really, really bad!

NEOWatcher
2013-Aug-29, 08:23 PM
Finally; spare is in the trunk mounted and balanced.
Am I done though? No; the dealer is still waiting for the stupid wingnut to hold down the rim in the trunk. :rolleyes:

JohnD
2013-Aug-29, 08:47 PM
Capn Swoop?
Wrong, I'm afraid - lots of UK cars have no spare tyre, and it annoys some people.
My wife's car (French) doesn't have one, although my car (French) does, but hers is small and sporty.
See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/spare-tyre
"And the RAC say they’ve had over 80 000 call outs a year from people who have no spare tyres and from drivers who have had limited success with the sealant kits."
["RAC" = A national call-out breakdown service]
John

cjl
2013-Aug-30, 08:04 PM
Are you sure?

It seems to be happening in your neck of the woods too.
Why don't cars have spare tyres any more? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228999/David-Derbyshire-Why-dont-cars-spare-tyres-more.html)

That's funny that it describes the sealant kit as being for "bottom of the range" cars - my decidedly not bottom-of-the-range Porsche Cayman S has the sealant goop as well. Why? Because the designers didn't like the driving dynamics of run-flat tires, and there's no room for a spare (even a space saver), and even if you could find room for a space saver spare, there would be nowhere to put the full-size wheel you took off with the flat tire (aside from in the passenger's lap).

Trebuchet
2013-Aug-31, 12:30 AM
Editing utter non-sequitur post to the wrong thread so I can put it in the right one.

Just sow there's something on-topic, I'm not even sure if my wife's car (a 2007 model) has a spare. I know my 2005 pickup does because I've used it, as noted somewhere above.

NEOWatcher
2014-May-09, 07:16 PM
Update on my spare.

(ok, it's not a recent story, but mentioning changing a spare tire on a date in the super powers thread reminded me to update this thread)

In October, I had a flat tire. A nice nail right through the sidewall.
Luckily, It was discovered in my sister's driveway 700 miles from my home. So; we just took off the wheel and took it to the store for a new tire.

So; two years of searching for that spare, and I still didn't use it. At least it's peace of mind for the next flat.

Noclevername
2014-May-10, 12:10 AM
Clearly, you need a hover conversion (http://backtothefuture.wikia.com/wiki/Goldie_Wilson_Hover_Conversion_Systems). They should be available by next year.

redshifter
2014-May-10, 12:17 AM
There's always airless tires (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tweel-airless-tire.htm)

DonM435
2014-May-10, 03:59 AM
I remember that long ago, my father used to maintain a fifth wheel and tire in his cars. He'd have all five tires rotated so that the spare was just as good as the others, and all of the tires lasted 20% longer.

Seemed a good idea, but when I inquired about that it seemed that they'd charge an arm and two legs for that fifth wheel, so I gave up.

swampyankee
2014-May-10, 10:33 AM
My Volvo has a spare, but they've cleverly designed the wheel bolts to be non-removable. When I have a flat, the car has to go to a garage, where they have to get out the breaker bars. The impact wrench won't do.

danscope
2014-May-10, 06:17 PM
My Father had a GM Motorhome, a large-ish sort of camper with a 500ci cadillac motor, and very beeeg road wheel nuts.
He kept a 3/4" cracking bar and a length of pipe handy for such occasions. For myself, I keep a 1/2" torque wrench with a
4" extension and a six point socket for the road wheel nuts. This works !!!! and serves several functions.
Leave nothing to chance.
Dan

swampyankee
2014-May-10, 09:33 PM
My Father had a GM Motorhome, a large-ish sort of camper with a 500ci cadillac motor, and very beeeg road wheel nuts.
He kept a 3/4" cracking bar and a length of pipe handy for such occasions. For myself, I keep a 1/2" torque wrench with a
4" extension and a six point socket for the road wheel nuts. This works !!!! and serves several functions.
Leave nothing to chance.
Dan

Since my sister's first husband was struck and killed on an interstate, my flat-fixing technique is a) remove cell phone and b) call AAA.

danscope
2014-May-10, 09:57 PM
Sorry to hear that. One must observe all precautions... especially removal to a safe area. AAA also works well, given time.

NEOWatcher
2014-May-12, 05:51 PM
There's always airless tires (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tweel-airless-tire.htm)
I've been hoping those would come along for a long time.
It seems like all my life there were potential options. Run-flats, self-resealing, foam filled, etc. I seem to remember some concepts being born out of the Apollo Rover.

DonM435
2014-May-12, 07:46 PM
I was surprised when I learned there was no inner tube in modern tires. Somehow they stay on the rim without leaking.

PetersCreek
2014-May-12, 08:28 PM
Since they became standard equipment back in the '50s (I think) I've never had car tires that weren't tubeless. I also haven't had a compact spare in some years since my current vehicle is a full size pickup truck, as was the last one.

snutten
2014-May-12, 08:51 PM
The first rubber tires where air less (mid 1800 ).

Helge
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

JohnD
2014-May-12, 09:25 PM
Since my sister's first husband was struck and killed on an interstate, my flat-fixing technique is a) remove cell phone and b) call AAA.

Sad story - and having done it myself (changed a wheel on a motorway) wholly believeable. Even with the reflective triangle out and a lookout posted, all the hazard lights going, in good weather and day light, NO ONE even moved away from the edge of the inner lane (it was an outside wheel). In the UK, the Police advice for anyone broken down on an M'way is to get out of the car, over the Armco and across the grass. Do NOT stay with your car, because ramming a stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder is so common!
This makes a run-flat tyre a real advantage, as you can drive to the next exit and get off.
JOhn

Noclevername
2014-May-12, 09:27 PM
Clearly I posted this in the wrong thread! Now I'm picturing baby birdies with spare tires.

They need more cardio exercise.

pzkpfw
2014-May-13, 12:41 AM
The space saver tyres (here) are rated to 80 km/h. After some deaths linked to blowouts, there is even a legally mandated big-red-sticker on them now to remind people. (I recall a distraught Dad campaigning to have them banned altogether).

It's scary to be doing (the legally set speed of) 100 km/h on the motorway and be passed by someone doing 120 km/h - and see them on a little yellow space saver as they go by.

swampyankee
2014-May-13, 03:08 PM
The space saver tyres (here) are rated to 80 km/h. After some deaths linked to blowouts, there is even a legally mandated big-red-sticker on them now to remind people. (I recall a distraught Dad campaigning to have them banned altogether).

It's scary to be doing (the legally set speed of) 100 km/h on the motorway and be passed by someone doing 120 km/h - and see them on a little yellow space saver as they go by.

I see that here all too frequently. Unfortunately, their unintentional attempt to remove themselves from the gene pool frequently takes other people out with them.

NEOWatcher
2014-May-13, 04:27 PM
Sad story - and having done it myself (changed a wheel on a motorway) wholly believeable. Even with the reflective triangle out and a lookout posted, all the hazard lights going, in good weather and day light, NO ONE even moved away from the edge of the inner lane (it was an outside wheel).
Some people just don't care, and that's bad enough.
What's worse is the people that just completely panic because it's not the normal flow of what they are doing.


In the UK, the Police advice for anyone broken down on an M'way is to get out of the car, over the Armco and across the grass. Do NOT stay with your car, because ramming a stationary vehicle on the hard shoulder is so common!
About 15 years ago, an organization that I'm involved in had an international event here. Several women from Europe were on the highway when their van broke down.
They did just what you describe to the best of their ability. They left the van and were waiting in a grassy area away from the roadway and up an incline (they could only go so far because of the fence). They still got rammed into. Several serious injuries.

Barabino
2014-May-14, 03:48 AM
If I were you, I'd go to a broken cars deposit knowing your tires' parameters (written on tyre, something like "180/200 R17"), and I'd buy a couple of those old tyres WITH THE WHEEL, so you can change it yourself... probably it's $50 dollars for each, except for sporty cars. You keep one tyre in the car and one in your garage... (the tire in the car is for emergency, but you must change both wheels in the long run, so you don't have a new tire on one side and an old one on the other -- it may cause the car bending left or right) that's all folks...

NEOWatcher
2014-May-14, 02:01 PM
If I were you,
Who and what are you refering to?

If you followed the thread, you would see my original conundrum was not as simple as buying a regular spare.

Barabino
2014-May-15, 05:31 AM
Ok, I was too simplistic... but when you have the crick (car lifter), the wrench and the wheel, you're ok :)

NEOWatcher
2014-May-15, 01:01 PM
Ok, I was too simplistic... but when you have the crick (car lifter), the wrench and the wheel, you're ok :)
I guess if I boiled it down, my biggest issue was that I was not about to give up trunk(boot) space with a full size spare when a space saver spare compartment existed.

danscope
2014-May-15, 05:50 PM
Well.... only if it interferes with the golf clubs :)

NEOWatcher
2014-May-15, 06:08 PM
Well.... only if it interferes with the golf clubs :)
It would. The bag wouldn't lay flat on the floor. It would teeter on top of the spare.
Right now the bag fits perfectly in the rearmost part of the trunk transversly, behind the wheel well humps which holds it neatly in place.
http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/sportlich/h025.gif (http://www.cosgan.de/smilie.php)

boppa
2014-May-30, 04:34 PM
After having seen several accidents being repaired at work- I would like to point out a few things

1. foam in a can- useless and makes for an expensive tyre (and in some cases rim) replacement- any tyre repaired with foam in a can is fit only to be thrown away after it is used, and it can also prevent a new tyre being fitted to the existing rim as the foam often (usually) causes a new tyre to have slow leaks.

2. `donut'(space save) spares- These are banned from being sold with new cars in 2 states here now- and with good reason- they are insanely dangerous to drive on! They are often only capable of carrying the weight of the car and the driver (and in some cars not even that!) NEVER EVER EVER put one on a front tyre- they have so little rubber on the road in comparison to the proper tyre that they have little chance of actually turning the car (esp if its raining)- often resulting in cars understeering to the point they cant turn a corner and crash. At least if you have to put one on- if you have a flat front- fit the spacesaver to the rear and move the good rear tyre to the front. And go SLOW and not very far on that garbage `tyre'

3. Tyre pressures- check them when cold, never go above the max pressure printed on the TYRE and never go under 2/3 of that same pressure (printed on the TYRE) at all when onroad (special conditions like mud/rocks/sand etc are different and when dropping pressures lower than that speeds are kept slow). IGNORE totally the pressures in the cars handbook and printed on the door opening- they apply only when exactly the same manufacturer and model tyre is fitted, if the tyre is made by a different manufacturer or is a different model tyre, then that pressure can be wrong, in some cases dangerously so (either dangerously overinflated that can cause a blowout, or underinflated so that you can literally `peel' the tyre off the rim if cornering hard)

4. Tread and age- replace when the `marker bars' in the tread become level with the rest of the tyre (preferably before this esp if you live in a very wet location to prevent aquaplaning) and its recommended to replace tyres before 5 years old as the rubber can become perished and crack, leading to a split in the sidewall or a tread and an explosive flat (possibly causing a crash or rollover)

helpful hint- the tyre iron in most cars is totally useless in getting the nuts undone if done up with an impact gun, or if they have been on there for years. A crossbar iron is far better at getting a stubborn nut undone, or even better is a length of steel water pipe big enough to slip over the tyre iron, preferably as long as will fit in the boot.

profloater
2014-May-30, 04:50 PM
After having seen several accidents being repaired at work- I would like to point out a few things

1. foam in a can- useless and makes for an expensive tyre (and in some cases rim) replacement- any tyre repaired with foam in a can is fit only to be thrown away after it is used, and it can also prevent a new tyre being fitted to the existing rim as the foam often (usually) causes a new tyre to have slow leaks.

2. `donut'(space save) spares- These are banned from being sold with new cars in 2 states here now- and with good reason- they are insanely dangerous to drive on! They are often only capable of carrying the weight of the car and the driver (and in some cars not even that!) NEVER EVER EVER put one on a front tyre- they have so little rubber on the road in comparison to the proper tyre that they have little chance of actually turning the car (esp if its raining)- often resulting in cars understeering to the point they cant turn a corner and crash. At least if you have to put one on- if you have a flat front- fit the spacesaver to the rear and move the good rear tyre to the front. And go SLOW and not very far on that garbage `tyre'

3. Tyre pressures- check them when cold, never go above the max pressure printed on the TYRE and never go under 2/3 of that same pressure (printed on the TYRE) at all when onroad (special conditions like mud/rocks/sand etc are different and when dropping pressures lower than that speeds are kept slow). IGNORE totally the pressures in the cars handbook and printed on the door opening- they apply only when exactly the same manufacturer and model tyre is fitted, if the tyre is made by a different manufacturer or is a different model tyre, then that pressure can be wrong, in some cases dangerously so (either dangerously overinflated that can cause a blowout, or underinflated so that you can literally `peel' the tyre off the rim if cornering hard)

4. Tread and age- replace when the `marker bars' in the tread become level with the rest of the tyre (preferably before this esp if you live in a very wet location to prevent aquaplaning) and its recommended to replace tyres before 5 years old as the rubber can become perished and crack, leading to a split in the sidewall or a tread and an explosive flat (possibly causing a crash or rollover)

helpful hint- the tyre iron in most cars is totally useless in getting the nuts undone if done up with an impact gun, or if they have been on there for years. A crossbar iron is far better at getting a stubborn nut undone, or even better is a length of steel water pipe big enough to slip over the tyre iron, preferably as long as will fit in the boot.

I live in the UK and carry a foam can (two or three actually since two punctures can occur) because changing a tyre on a motorway takes much longer and is seriously dangerous. I have had to use the can several times and the puncture has subsequently been repaired with sometimes an extra charge of five pounds IIRC to clean up the rim, although they will not repair side wall or punctures near the side wall, but that is nothing to do with the foam. I agree the slim tyres are a pain but they do work at reduced speed, even on the front. Tyre companies offer Nitrogen fill now and my experience is that slow leaks are much reduced, I put this down to less rusting of the rim with nitrogen inside. I switched from run flat tyres when I learned they will not be repaired after a puncture and cost more than a set of four ordinary tyres, however I can see why they could be preferred if working on the car in traffic really freaks you out, as it might well do.

boppa
2014-May-30, 05:10 PM
I live in the UK and carry a foam can (two or three actually since two punctures can occur) because changing a tyre on a motorway takes much longer and is seriously dangerous. I have had to use the can several times and the puncture has subsequently been repaired with sometimes an extra charge of five pounds IIRC to clean up the rim, although they will not repair side wall or punctures near the side wall, but that is nothing to do with the foam. I agree the slim tyres are a pain but they do work at reduced speed, even on the front. Tyre companies offer Nitrogen fill now and my experience is that slow leaks are much reduced, I put this down to less rusting of the rim with nitrogen inside. I switched from run flat tyres when I learned they will not be repaired after a puncture and cost more than a set of four ordinary tyres, however I can see why they could be preferred if working on the car in traffic really freaks you out, as it might well do.
Unless you have an old aircooled vw or a porsche, I would seriously advise against running a space saver on the front-, you have the weight of the engine pushing down on an already seriously overloaded `tyre'- I looked at several we had in the workshop and the max weights were quite frankly pitiful- one had a max weight of 180kg (dunno what that is in us speak)- the weight of the car was 1600kg- with no fuel and no driver...

How overloaded would that be ion the front with a v6 and a auto gearbox pressing down on it?

(I suppose I am lucky in that working in heavy traffic doesnt faze me-esp since I am driving a tilt tray towtruck these days!!! )

primummobile
2014-May-30, 05:32 PM
In the US all donut tires (I don't have one I drive a full size truck with a full spare) have a mileage capacity written on them. You should put them on the back (can be tricky with only one jack) if possible and drive the shortest distance possible. And they should really be replaced after each use. I think the last donut tire I had stated a maximum life of 75 miles at a max speed of 35mph

boppa
2014-May-30, 05:54 PM
You should put them on the back (can be tricky with only one jack) if possible and drive the shortest distance possible.

Thats actually pretty easy.
flat on front
jack up good rear, remove,fit poxy space saver tyre on rear, lower
jack up flat front, remove and fit good ex rear tyre to front, lower
try and figure out where you are going to carry flat tyre- as it wont fit in the spare tyre compartment....
drive off- slowly and only to next servo to get flat fixed (this is the bit most people seem to have problems with in the end)

primummobile
2014-May-30, 06:02 PM
Sure. But how successful that is depends on a lot of things like jack size and ground clearance.

boppa
2014-May-30, 06:16 PM
Yes the dreaded `jack is too tall' problem
Its easily fixed
You get your chocks of wood used to chock the opposite wheel (oh now I see the issue- most people dont have them- in which case what stops the car rolling off the jack and crushing them???)

drive flat tyre up onto wood chock (or tree branch or kerb or whatever is handy) then put jack under car
(I actually carry timber blocks in the tilt tray just for modern lower cars with front spoilers etc- build a `bridge' of timber for the front tyres to run up as its winched on- otherwise people seem to complain if the front bumper and spoiler get dragged under the car and crushed... cant understand why lol)

primummobile
2014-May-30, 11:20 PM
Wooden blocks? I just take my chances. But I do.change my own spares and if I see a woman with a flat I stop.

profloater
2014-May-31, 08:32 AM
Thats actually pretty easy.
flat on front
jack up good rear, remove,fit poxy space saver tyre on rear, lower
jack up flat front, remove and fit good ex rear tyre to front, lower
try and figure out where you are going to carry flat tyre- as it wont fit in the spare tyre compartment....
drive off- slowly and only to next servo to get flat fixed (this is the bit most people seem to have problems with in the end)

OK but setting the scene with cold and rain, dark, fast cars are rushing by, and the jack is under the luggage and the tyre too, or often under the car on a frame with a nut to undo, lying on your back in the wet road;
compare your sequence with: find the foam can, fully deflate the tyres using the valve cap, screw the can hose onto the inflator valve, let it squirt while you stand on the and refill the tyre, drive carefully on to a safe place.

danscope
2014-May-31, 06:31 PM
Sometimes, the tire is destroyed well beyond the use of squirt foam. Swapping out the tire is an important option.
Even a brick makes a road chock. Or a couple pieces of 4 by 4 , with a long slash cut. You might be on an incline.
Be prepared. I wonder where I learned that slogan? Hmmm.....

profloater
2014-May-31, 10:29 PM
That's true, but where we live in the country, they cut the hedges and leave sharp thorns and bits of wire fence cut by the rotating cutters, slow and not so slow punctures can be common while total blow outs are rare. They can be due to running hot on underinflated tyres.