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banquo's_bumble_puppy
2011-Nov-14, 06:45 PM
Has Steam Punk been hijacked? I never knew until recently that the genre or sub-genre was still around....I thought it was a '90's thing....1890's I guess. Don't know if I'm sad about it or if I care much. It is stylish but so is Goth. I wonder if I could create a genre that would catch on? I love pop-culture....sorta. I like them leather Roy Batty jackets....maybe I could start a band that would spawn a genre....yeah "The Roy Battys"....hey kids lookin' for a cool band name....remember BBP....;-)

I guess if people are having fun with something it isn't a bad thing....it is people using their imaginations and being creative...certainly beats sitting on the couch all day watching SciFi....I'm just jealous because I'm too self-conscious to ever consider dressing-up in a Pith helmet and brass goggles or what-have-you.

Gillianren
2011-Nov-14, 07:34 PM
Hijacked? What on Earth do you mean? If you mean, has it as a genre sold out, I don't think that's possible unless a part of the genre is rejecting capitalism and the mainstream. Yes, you can buy steampunk patterns from Simplicity (and when we figure out how to adapt that jacket around my scoliosis, I am going to have a fabulous outfit!), and yes, you can buy cheap steampunk jewelry at Fuego, but so what?

publiusr
2011-Nov-14, 08:49 PM
Well, with Sky Captain we got dieselpunk, and the new Three Musketeers movie has pre-Victorian airships...
Nice swag here
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=37184 http://www.frankbuchwald.de/index_eng.html
http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/39-amazing-steampunk-computer-mods-200834/3
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Typewriter_20computer
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/20/movie-gadget-friday-brazil/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Typewriter-Computer-Keyboard/

mike alexander
2011-Nov-14, 11:47 PM
Just get to a decent Con to see hundreds of people dressed in wild, wonderful costume and having what certainly appears to be a great time.

Gillianren
2011-Nov-15, 12:19 AM
Did you see the woman with the train hat at Norwescon last year?

novaderrik
2011-Nov-15, 01:11 AM
"steampunk" is one of those phrases that i'm absolutely sick of seeing.. it's all over teh internets..

SkepticJ
2011-Nov-15, 03:04 AM
I'm burned out on it, too. It was/is a good idea, but it became too popular. The fun of these kinds of things is their novelty*. When anyone spray paints a Nerf gun bronze, the magic is gone.


*If absolutely anyone had the stones and skill to use a meteor hammer that's on fire, it's not really that cool, is it?

tnjrp
2011-Nov-15, 08:51 AM
It did become a runaway hit and just like everything that used to be niche and then turned popular, it's lame now according to the early adopters and True Steampunks. There are many examples of this from the days of yore, not the least of which is punk rock.

My chief problem with steampunk is that it's used as a label/marketing gimmick that gets slapped willy-nilly on anything pseudoVictorian basically, without even the most tenuous connection to either "steam" or "punk". Thus the term gets diluted to the point where it is entirely meaningless. And it wasn't very easy to tell what the "punk" bit stood for from the get go, never mind now.

jokergirl
2011-Nov-15, 09:42 AM
The problem with Steampunk is that it does't even make sense in its original setting :) Too much suspension of disbelief required to make the principle work for me.

Now if somebody could give a good update to cyberpunk... and I don't mean the new Shadowrun edition...

;)

SkepticJ
2011-Nov-15, 04:55 PM
There never was punk in steampunk, or any of the other -punks besides cyberpunk and punk rock.

It's pseudo-Victorian technological-romanticism. It can be plausibly realistic alternate history like The Difference Engine, it can be soft-SF with impossible technology (Steamboy), and it can be fantasy (Howl's Moving Castle).

novaderrik
2011-Nov-16, 04:13 AM
There never was punk in steampunk, or any of the other -punks besides cyberpunk and punk rock.

It's pseudo-Victorian technological-romanticism. It can be plausibly realistic alternate history like The Difference Engine, it can be soft-SF with impossible technology (Steamboy), and it can be fantasy (Howl's Moving Castle).

where does the giant mechanical spider in that wonderful Will Smith movie "The Wild, Wild West" fit in?

ravens_cry
2011-Nov-16, 05:52 AM
I had an idea for a steampunk setting that also had nuclear power.
After all, nuclear power is largely steam power, no?
Basically, in the setting natural uranium had enough uranium-235 that it could used without enrichment in a light water reactor.
Eventually Orion style spaceships were invented and used to transport undesirables to Mars, which had life and a thick enough atmosphere virtue of being much more massive for its size.
Still very much a desert though, mostly.
Then word came out that the reason it had so much mass was because of its larger concentration of heavy metals, like gold and uranium.
Basically it was an excuse to have an Old West style setting on Mars.

tnjrp
2011-Nov-16, 06:36 AM
Mr. Cowperthwaite, the main character in Paul DiFilippo's novella Victoria, had been injured in a devastating accident involving a huge nuclear powered train...

HenrikOlsen
2011-Nov-16, 07:36 AM
where does the giant mechanical spider in that wonderful Will Smith movie "The Wild, Wild West" fit in?
Soft-SF with impossible technology.

Gillianren
2011-Nov-16, 07:50 PM
A producer's weird fixation; listen to Kevin Smith talk about Superman.

mike alexander
2011-Nov-16, 08:14 PM
The giant mechanical spider would probably be classified under some subset of Weird West. Too much fine splitting going on, anyhow.

novaderrik
2011-Nov-17, 04:32 AM
A producer's weird fixation; listen to Kevin Smith talk about Superman.

i did love how Kevin Smith talked about the giant spider.. see if i can remember how it went..
i think he was supposed to include it in the Superman script he was in the process of writing because the producer wanted a big mechanical spider for the hero to fight, but that movie never got made and it wound up in the Wild Wild West movie that the producer made a year or so later..

Noclevername
2011-Nov-17, 02:53 PM
i did love how Kevin Smith talked about the giant spider.. see if i can remember how it went..
i think he was supposed to include it in the Superman script he was in the process of writing because the producer wanted a big mechanical spider for the hero to fight, but that movie never got made and it wound up in the Wild Wild West movie that the producer made a year or so later..

The same producer also said he didn't want Superman to wear tights, a cape, or to be seen flying-- in other words he wanted his own superhero who wasn't Superman except in name.

Of course, after the latest DC reboot, he gets some of his wish...

Stubby Boardman
2011-Nov-17, 02:58 PM
The same producer also said he didn't want Superman to wear tights, a cape, or to be seen flying-- in other words he wanted his own superhero who wasn't Superman except in name.

Of course, after the latest DC reboot, he gets some of his wish...

He also wanted an army at the Fortress of Solitude, didn't he?

ravens_cry
2011-Nov-17, 03:36 PM
Mr. Cowperthwaite, the main character in Paul DiFilippo's novella Victoria, had been injured in a devastating accident involving a huge nuclear powered train...
Ha!
And those posters said I couldn't have nuclear power in steampunk!
They called me mad!
Well, I'll show them, I'll show them all!
:rofl:

AGROVATOR
2011-Nov-17, 04:26 PM
Is there an economics model that could be used to see the ability for a trend to turn into a commodity?
F of cool = ((how many of your friends have it+ how much you are exposed to it)/friends)
F of necessity = ( well being / effort)

So, If you wore your brass goggles to the lab and all of your coworkers had plastic goggles, F cool =( cool goggles/ co-workers) and F necessity =( + well being / easy)
As you can see by this simple equation, if you worked in a lab and wore your sweet brass goggles it would contribute to your well being and be easy to do.
But conversely, if you worked in an office, everyone would look at you funny.

Gillianren
2011-Nov-17, 07:42 PM
He also wanted an army at the Fortress of Solitude, didn't he?

I believe so. Every once in a while, I see movies which are so changed from the original source material that I wonder why they ever bothered getting the licensing. And then I remember name recognition and wonder instead how much word-of-mouth sank the movie after its initial release.

Scriitor
2011-Nov-17, 10:12 PM
I had an idea for a steampunk setting that also had nuclear power.
After all, nuclear power is largely steam power, no?
Basically, in the setting natural uranium had enough uranium-235 that it could used without enrichment in a light water reactor.
Eventually Orion style spaceships were invented and used to transport undesirables to Mars, which had life and a thick enough atmosphere virtue of being much more massive for its size.
Still very much a desert though, mostly.
Then word came out that the reason it had so much mass was because of its larger concentration of heavy metals, like gold and uranium.
Basically it was an excuse to have an Old West style setting on Mars.

Atomic Punk - the next big thing?

I imagine a retro-futurist world where the 50s dream of atomic-powered everything is a reality, along with all the environmental carelessness and disregard for safety of the industrial revolution. Where the weather report tells you today's rad levels and discarded nuclear reactors lie rusting in junk heaps. You know, sorta like the actual city of Murmansk, Russia.

KaiYeves
2011-Nov-18, 01:37 AM
Atomic Punk - the next big thing?

I imagine a retro-futurist world where the 50s dream of atomic-powered everything is a reality, along with all the environmental carelessness and disregard for safety of the industrial revolution. Where the weather report tells you today's rad levels and discarded nuclear reactors lie rusting in junk heaps. You know, sorta like the actual city of Murmansk, Russia.
Oh, Atompunk (http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/atompunk-fetishizing.html) is a thing.

Scriitor
2011-Nov-18, 01:50 AM
And here I thought I was being original!

KaiYeves
2011-Nov-18, 01:52 AM
If the stories you want to create are original, it doesn't matter if the setting is or not.

HenrikOlsen
2011-Nov-18, 04:05 AM
He also wanted an army at the Fortress of Solitude, didn't he?
And didn't know who Kal-El is.

tnjrp
2011-Nov-18, 08:11 AM
Here are the pertinent (yet sordid) bitz of the Superman sidetrack for anyone who happens not to remember them any better than I did:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t540522.html

---


Oh, Atompunk (http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/atompunk-fetishizing.html) is a thing.
Yes. More on that subject (http://philipreeve.blogspot.com/2010/08/atompunk.html).

Dieselpunk may also touch on nuclear power issues although its proper remit is the interbellum years I think so many afficionados probably don't regard nuclear powered stuff as "kosher".

TheBrett
2011-Nov-18, 07:40 PM
Atomic Punk sounds very awesome. It would cross-over with Steam Punk at times (since most nuclear reactors generate electricity by heating water into steam to turn a turbine), but you could also have electricity in the setting and give it that absurdly optimistic "Science!" '50s feel (like what you see in Portal 2 and Bioshock). Not to mention that there have been speculative designs for atomic-powered vehicles like cars (the Ford Nucleon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon)).

AGROVATOR
2011-Nov-19, 03:15 PM
So the true dichotomy of the story is;
there is more power laying around than clean water and natural resources and they have to use nuclear reactors etc.
to clean the water and create light for plants to grow.

ravens_cry
2011-Nov-19, 07:57 PM
Atomic Punk - the next big thing?

I imagine a retro-futurist world where the 50s dream of atomic-powered everything is a reality, along with all the environmental carelessness and disregard for safety of the industrial revolution. Where the weather report tells you today's rad levels and discarded nuclear reactors lie rusting in junk heaps. You know, sorta like the actual city of Murmansk, Russia.
As mentioned, it's a 'thing'. The idea though is more Weird West/Steam Punk with some alternate sources of energy, still very much keeping with the Victorian aesthetic and basic time period.

Elukka
2011-Nov-19, 09:56 PM
This is slightly tangential to the topic, but I love how steampunk (atompunk?) this actual fusion reactor (http://www.psl.wisc.edu/projects/large/hsx) looks like.

SkepticJ
2011-Nov-19, 11:10 PM
While not so much as that one, the polywell reactor design doesn't look like the cutting edge technology it is either. Shiny electromagnetic toroids arranged in the shape of a Platonic solid . . . looks like something that could've come out of the 1930s or '40s.

Noclevername
2011-Dec-13, 02:11 AM
Bumped the thread just to add this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA
...A music video that sums up the complaints, I think.

tnjrp
2011-Dec-13, 07:16 AM
I recently purchased The Steampunk Bible by Jeff Van*der*Meer and (in fact mostly, I suspect) S. J. Chambers. It tracks the developement of steampunk from a fringle form of speculative fiction to an actual subculture. Haven't read it yet so I can't say if it touches on the controversies and hijack issues involved.
http://steampunkbible.com/

Gillianren
2011-Dec-13, 08:05 PM
I'm still unclear on what "hijacking" means in this context. Is the OP talking about the fact that, say, I can buy unattractive steampunk jewelry from a store in my local mall?

tnjrp
2011-Dec-14, 06:55 AM
I'm still thinking it's along the lines of what I outlined in my first message in this thread...

HenrikOlsen
2012-Jan-10, 01:49 AM
Yes, you can buy steampunk patterns from Simplicity (and when we figure out how to adapt that jacket around my scoliosis, I am going to have a fabulous outfit!), and yes, you can buy cheap steampunk jewelry at Fuego, but so what?
I forgot to say thanks for mentioning Simplicity, I just noticed their 2581 pattern, that coat looks like a good base for a streampunkish costume.
Apart from looking good enough that I'd be tempted to use it for regular wear.

Gillianren
2012-Jan-10, 02:21 AM
Yeah, I've got yards of brown duck cloth waiting to be turned into that one.

ETA--The women's coat in that pattern, obviously. But they're both very nice coats.

Doodler
2012-Jan-16, 03:36 PM
The problem with Steampunk is that it does't even make sense in its original setting :) Too much suspension of disbelief required to make the principle work for me.

Now if somebody could give a good update to cyberpunk... and I don't mean the new Shadowrun edition...

;)

That hurts. I still remember when Shadowrun was considered good cyberpunk. :(

Ara Pacis
2012-Feb-18, 05:21 AM
I can't wait for TieDyeLithiumPunk.

TieDyed Kirk: Hey, Scotty, can you hurry it up, dude. These kingons are all clingy and riding my rear end like they're cops or something.
TieDyed Scotty: Whoa, I cannae do anything more, keptain, I'm givin' 'er all she's got!
[pause]
[Tiedyed Scotty chuckles to self]
Tiedyed Scotty: Hey, did I ever tayll ya that this heer dilithum chaymber looks kinda like a hookah? Wait, I've got it. Vent the exhaust. Then they'll all be like, 'what?" and then they'll all be like "whoa..." It'll be like psycho-daelic, man.

Paul Beardsley
2012-Feb-18, 03:59 PM
I can't wait for TieDyeLithiumPunk.

TieDyed Kirk: Hey, Scotty, can you hurry it up, dude. These kingons are all clingy and riding my rear end like they're cops or something.
TieDyed Scotty: Whoa, I cannae do anything more, keptain, I'm givin' 'er all she's got!
[pause]
[Tiedyed Scotty chuckles to self]
Tiedyed Scotty: Hey, did I ever tayll ya that this heer dilithum chaymber looks kinda like a hookah? Wait, I've got it. Vent the exhaust. Then they'll all be like, 'what?" and then they'll all be like "whoa..." It'll be like psycho-daelic, man.

I don't actually understand what you're doing here, but I found it amusing nonetheless.

mike alexander
2012-Feb-18, 06:04 PM
One always starts from the idea of telling the best story one can. The fun of things like weird or steampunk is the weaving of anachronisms or impossibilities into the narrative in a way that, if not necessarily reasonable, at least moves the story along (well, that IS science fiction or fantasy, after all). Classics like LaFarge's "Spud and Cochise," Farmer's "Sail On, Sail On!," or Harrison's A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah! (which does have a nuclear-powered locomotive), could be classified broadly into weird or 'punk categories, but the label tends to fall away as you get into the author's head.

KaiYeves
2012-Feb-18, 06:23 PM
I don't actually understand what you're doing here, but I found it amusing nonetheless.
I think it's "What if everyone on Star Trek was a hippie?" Maybe? I don't really get it either.

publiusr
2012-Feb-24, 09:41 PM
Yea, brother...

tnjrp
2012-Jun-26, 07:32 AM
Consider it hijacked now:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/steampunk/prada-goes-steampunk-for-fall-3n9d

HenrikOlsen
2012-Jun-26, 07:49 AM
That's actually the first time I've seen something by Prada I'd wear. :D

Jens
2012-Jun-26, 08:13 AM
I'll second that. I suspect they'll be out of my price range, though. . .

Gillianren
2012-Jun-26, 08:19 AM
I'll just take Gary Oldman and Willem Dafoe, please!

NEOWatcher
2012-Jun-26, 05:18 PM
Prada? What's that? Is it a brand like Fruit of the Loom? Can I find it at Walmart or Kohls? :rofl:

SkepticJ
2012-Jun-26, 06:23 PM
I'm always amazed at what "old school" rich people waste their money on.

Moose
2012-Jun-26, 06:52 PM
That's actually the first time I've seen something by Prada I'd wear. :D

Thirded. I particularly like the brown trench. (Not the one DaFoe's wearing with the black leather lapels, but rather the guy to his left.) I already have the clip-on sunglasses that look vaguely brass goggle-ish.

mike alexander
2012-Jun-26, 08:20 PM
That's Pravda's impression of steampunk couture. Compared to the stuff I see at an average con it looks mostly boring and expensive.

Gillianren
2012-Jun-26, 09:27 PM
Oh, true--there was that woman at Norwescon-before-last with that spectacular train hat, for example. But it is a nice change from what's usually produced for men.

Noclevername
2012-Jun-26, 09:29 PM
Re the prada suits-- I see the punk, but where's the steam?

tnjrp
2012-Jun-27, 05:11 AM
I don't see much punk there either but I admit that's just me. But be that as it may, "quasivictorian" is synonymous to "steampunk" in the minds of the marketing departments these days. A True Steampunk(TM) wouldn't wear Prada anyway, he'd make his own clothes (albeit it could be permissible to mod a Prada suit in so doing).

Gillianren
2012-Jun-27, 05:32 AM
Well, and to me, that's part of the issue. Steampunk is as much about accessories as clothing, and I can see every one of those outfits becoming steampunk with very little effort.

HenrikOlsen
2012-Jun-27, 07:31 AM
Steampunk is a design aesthetic and those clothes have caught the aesthetic well, as Gillian said: accessorize and it's there.

That it's missing the classic mad scientists outfit is natural, since that one starts with the plain or stained lab coat and builds from that.

NEOWatcher
2012-Jun-27, 06:42 PM
That's Pravda's impression of steampunk couture.
Pravda? Interesting typo or oversight. I see Pravda and Prada on two different ends of the spectrum.

Moose
2012-Jun-27, 07:47 PM
Steampunk is a design aesthetic and those clothes have caught the aesthetic well, as Gillian said: accessorize and it's there.

Nevermind Steampunk. I love that style in its own right. Classic, classy, and fresh. I loathe modern suit+tie. That's been done to death.

mike alexander
2012-Jun-27, 11:41 PM
Pravda? Interesting typo or oversight. I see Pravda and Prada on two different ends of the spectrum.

Ah, but which ends?

Trebuchet
2012-Jun-28, 03:07 PM
That's actually the first time I've seen something by Prada I'd wear. :D

But WHERE would you wear it? Not to work, I guess it's some sort of evening wear for going out.

I have one major problem with steampunk, which is related to my profession as a mechanical engineer: Gears That Don't Work. Different pitches meshed together, locked trains, the whole nine yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

HenrikOlsen
2012-Jun-28, 03:23 PM
I totally agree, which is why the steampunk gadget I'm currently working on (small gears based calculator for role-playing) is taking longer than planned. I actually want it to work.

Here's one adder gear-set (in itself it does (a+b)/2, but with the large gear will be driving a smaller one for *4 afterwards), it'll have three of those diffs in total, for a combined result of ((((a+b)/2)*4)+(((c+d)/2)*4))/2=a+b+c+d
16232

Moose
2012-Jun-28, 04:17 PM
But WHERE would you wear it? Not to work, I guess it's some sort of evening wear for going out.

If money were no object? Everywhere but the beach. (Mostly kidding, but only mostly.) Seriously, I'd love to use some of those suits and steampunk up a practical physics class.

Gillianren
2012-Jun-28, 07:19 PM
I have one major problem with steampunk, which is related to my profession as a mechanical engineer: Gears That Don't Work. Different pitches meshed together, locked trains, the whole nine yards.

The gears on my steampunk pin actually move. They don't do anything, but my boss knows that people like to turn the gears. How can he not? I work for him, and when I'm wearing that pin, I spin the gears incessantly.

Ara Pacis
2012-Jun-28, 09:53 PM
Nevermind Steampunk. I love that style in its own right. Classic, classy, and fresh. I loathe modern suit+tie. That's been done to death.Ugh, I hate modern apparel too. The Prada steampunk-ishness is refreshing and interesting. Personally, I liked the civilian design aesthetic of Babylon 5 , similar to modern but with banded collars, no ties and the different lapel style (not sure what it's called).

HenrikOlsen
2012-Jun-29, 01:09 AM
But WHERE would you wear it? Not to work, I guess it's some sort of evening wear for going out.
I would say it depends a lot on the time of year.
Work might actually be a possibility.

Trebuchet
2012-Jun-29, 04:36 AM
The gears on my steampunk pin actually move. They don't do anything, but my boss knows that people like to turn the gears. How can he not? I work for him, and when I'm wearing that pin, I spin the gears incessantly.

That's quite acceptable. Perhaps I should have said "Gears That CAN'T Work". I see them all the time and they're one of my all-time pet peeves. I bet if I was to a google image search right now for "gear" there'd be at least two on the first page. If I do "steampunk gears" it'll be most of them.

--Pause--

Ok, back. Did both searches. Both were not as bad as I expected, in fact just "gears" was clean. What I did come upon was this site (http://www.bugman123.com/Gears/index.html) which is pretty cool. Even though it's clearly CG, everything is set up to work correctly!

ETA: Looking again at "gears", there are some bad ones after all. Here's one (http://www.google.com/imgres?q=gears&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=4vVpw1YMujpmAM:&imgrefurl=http://www.sizzix.com/product/656636/sizzix-bigz-die-gadget-gears&docid=cV2gGbzw1Eu4_M&imgurl=http://www.sizzix.com/images/products/large/656636.jpg%253F1305126641&w=300&h=300&ei=DC_tT5j6F-Pe2AXN_rWJAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=349&vpy=146&dur=443&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=80&ty=129&sig=111805420985378133666&page=3&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&start=47&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:47,i:330).

whimsyfree
2012-Jun-29, 05:49 AM
How smart a machine could you make with nano-machined gears etc? Is it possible the first alien intelligence we encounter will come with a winder?

SkepticJ
2012-Jun-29, 07:07 AM
Pretty smart, though they'd probably not be made of metal, but diamond or similar materials.

I'll have to dig my copy of Nanosystems out of storage in a bit over a week when I get back from vacation and get you some precise numbers. Rest assured they couldn't be powered by wound-up springs. You're looking at computers the size of a sugar cube that take 100,000 Watts to run, and have to be cooled with a supersonic feed of slush to keep from reverting to graphite.

tnjrp
2012-Jun-29, 07:15 AM
I don't think there is any technical reason that stops a mechanical cogs-and-gears machine from performing the same computational tasks as any modern computer, if it were allowed to be bigger and slower. Probably would be a bit too big and slow in practice to be a wind-up Babbage machine tho.

whimsyfree
2012-Jun-29, 10:55 AM
I don't think there is any technical reason that stops a mechanical cogs-and-gears machine from performing the same computational tasks as any modern computer,


Well, obviously. A 1982 PC with enough tape storage can perform any calculation that the fastest computer in the world can today.


if it were allowed to be bigger and slower. Probably would be a bit too big and slow in practice to be a wind-up Babbage machine tho.

I suspect so.



I'll have to dig my copy of Nanosystems out of storage in a bit over a week when I get back from vacation and get you some precise numbers. Rest assured they couldn't be powered by wound-up springs. You're looking at computers the size of a sugar cube that take 100,000 Watts to run, and have to be cooled with a supersonic feed of slush to keep from reverting to graphite.

Well that's disappointing. It seems thinking does use quite a lot of energy, despite what my wife says.

Moose
2012-Jun-29, 04:11 PM
Well, obviously. A 1982 PC with enough tape storage can perform any calculation that the fastest computer in the world can today.

Not exactly. There are some things parallelism (aka, fastest computers in the world) can do that are quite beyond the means of early buyable PC architectures from that era, even if you grant near-infinite processing time.

whimsyfree
2012-Jun-29, 08:19 PM
Not exactly. There are some things parallelism (aka, fastest computers in the world) can do that are quite beyond the means of early buyable PC architectures from that era, even if you grant near-infinite processing time.

Such as?