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DOOMMaster
2004-Jul-28, 06:09 AM
First off, I'd like to say that I'm a long time lurker, but first time posting. I especially love how many woo-woos get quickly and rightly dismissed by people who know what they are talking about. Which brings me to the point of my post.

Please don't think that I endorse this guy (in fact, the whole reason I'm posting it is so we can disect it and show how wrong it is). I love it how he claims to have all the answers and how modern science has gone horribly wrong, yet he doesn't seem to have spent any time trying to validate his conclusions.

The website is http://www.thefinaltheory.com/pages/1/index.htm

I already looked through it, can love how we have to buy the book to get all the answers (as if science were this simple). I don't think this has been posted here before, so I thought I'd make everyone aware of another crackpot theory that someone is trying to make a buck off of.

MrObvious
2004-Jul-28, 06:52 AM
OK, I read most of the first chapter but lost more and more interest the further I got. The problem I see is that he presumes that gravity and magnetisim are power sources. If you make this assumption (which is flawed) then everything based on those assumptions will be flawed also.

E.g. He talks about a persons hand expending power to hold two magnets (of similar polarity) together, while the magnets don't lose their force. If squeeze a brick with my hands I use power. The brick doesn't, neither does the magnet. Force is different to energy, if we can't agree on that then there is no point in going further, it's just a waste of energy to do so.

With his introduction to gravity, same thing. Gravity is not a power source. He states otherwise. He states it takes energy to make something deviate from a straight line, so the Earth is expending energy to keep the moon in orbit. He then questions why the Earths gravity doesn't diminish since its using power. The problem here is he doesn't understand the concept of path of least resistance. The moon's orbit is it's lowest energy state, if it were to travel in a straight line it would require significant energy to deviate it from its orbit.

If his book starts with such flawed assumptions then I wouldn't even bother reading the rest.

Regards,

01101001
2004-Jul-28, 06:59 AM
Welcome to the BABB.

http://www.thefinaltheory.com/pages/1/index.htm
It has been discussed here.

January, 2004: The Final Theory, by McCutcheon (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=195898)

June, 2004: If it's in print, it must be true, right? Right? (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14273)

Meteora
2004-Jul-28, 07:33 AM
Welcome, DOOMMaster!

I'm originally from Canton, Illinois, just a short distance from Peoria, which I've been to (literally) about a thousand times!

Trinity
2004-Jul-28, 08:00 AM
DOOMMasert, on a side note, your nickname makes me very uncomfortable. I spent a good 5 hours today ridding my office's network of this blasted "MyDoom.M" virus..... you're not a virus, are you?

(I'm sure you're name is referencing the game..but yeah, still makes me nervous!!)

electromagneticpulse
2004-Jul-28, 08:26 AM
Anyway all his arguments are flawed because einstine predicted that for the universe to stay balanced their must be white wholes which "spew" matter out at the inverse velocity that matter would enter a black hole.
i dont think the guy ever saw the marbles in the rubber to show gravity where a "heavyer" object bends the rubber (space).

Q: How can a fridge magnet cling against gravity
endlessly without draining a power source?

A: It can't ... fridge magnets are impossible according to
today's science. As we all know, it takes tremendous energy
to cling to the side of a cliff, supporting our own weight against
gravity, and before long we would tire and fall. Yet a fridge
magnet is not glued to the fridge -- it is held by magnetic
energy.

this just seems dumb to me, who even gave this guy a physics degree (if he even has one), if i tied a rope around my neck stood on a chair attatched it to a boiler pipe on the roof n kicked the chair away, im not losing any gravotational potential energy.

ooh even better

Q: How can freezing water expand, even bursting
metal pipes, with no energy input to explain it?

A: According to today's science, this is impossible.

it takes a loss of energy for water to freeze! theirs his missing energy. i know what he is, he's a... i would say mouse but after reading hitch hikers guide i think i might have to say amoeba.

DOOMMaster
2004-Jul-28, 08:45 AM
D'oh! I didn't think that this was discussed before! I actually ran across it as an ad to a physics website that was discussing dark energy, which was kinda surprising, since the website is a real physics website.

Meteora, yeah, I've been to Canton a few times, not a bad place. Peoria is much better than where I used to live before, Pekin (shudders at the thought of that horrible place).

Trinity, not to worry, my name comes from long before the MyDOOM virus came out. It is a reference to the original DOOM games, which I've been playing since I was 12. I'm 23 now, so I've had it for a very long time.

electromagneticpulse
2004-Jul-28, 02:34 PM
hey doom master has playing violent computer games desensetised u from violence? i mean i was playing wolfenstine when i as like 4, im 16 now and i was forced to sit through the exorcist the orginal really scary one and i got bored.

i wonder if we could put it to the test and make his final theory his last one aswell!

CUStudent
2004-Jul-29, 06:03 AM
Guys like this crack me up. You can see from my name that i'm a student, and as I begin to wind up my undergraduate years I look back and think about the concepts of physics that really struck me as beautiful and elegant. It's very easy for physics students to blindly accept all they are told (and in Quantum Mechanics sometimes it's the only way), but certain problems and concepts click so well that very quickly you run out of possible 'flaws' to question. Conservative fields, for example. This author seems to have a hard time with them, but I find most introductory texts explain them pretty well and without much ambiguity. Perhaps, instead of \$30 for his book, he will accept the Feynman Lectures in trade. I'd get a laugh and he'd get an education.

400+ pages and nothing ultimately to show for it, this author should have been a lawyer.

electromagneticpulse
2004-Jul-29, 03:13 PM
I start learning physics properly getting into quarks and the advanced physics next year, and my simple explination for the universe is it's like a person if someone else is doing the work it'll sit on the sofa with a beer. A magnet on a fridge in theory should fall off like in thoery a 60lb man pushing a 400lb man who's sat on a bar stool the 400lb man should in theory fall off but we all know it isn't gonna happen in our lifetime.

I agree with CUStudent, the guy should become a lawyer and/or rename his book the final door stop.

CUStudent
2004-Jul-29, 04:25 PM
A magnet on a fridge in theory should fall off like in thoery a 60lb man pushing a 400lb man who's sat on a bar stool the 400lb man should in theory fall off but we all know it isn't gonna happen in our lifetime

As far as his fridge magnet example goes, this author is dismissing the notion of friction. The magnet has an attractive force toward the fridge door, so it "sticks." There is then friction between the vertical magnet and the vertical door, which increases linearly with the attractive force. Because the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of kinetic friction, the magnet sits motionless on the door. The author's idea that there needs to be a power source for this to occur (or an energy source, he uses these interchangably) is rediculous. If there is a power/energy source, why can't we harness this "perpetual" energy source for our own use? Because he doesn't understand the work function, that's why. I guess when i park my car on a hill and put on the parking brake I am draining a power source.
All of this explanation, i guess, is for my own gratification. The author certainly isn't reading the BA Board, and surely nobody here really believes him.

P.S. Another thing that bothers me, he makes a point to mention that a fridge magnet is not glued to the door, that it is held by magnetic energy. My question for him (or one of his believers/followers) is why does glue get a free pass? The glue holding something onto a fridge itself must be fighting the force of gravity, and in his world would need an infinite "power source" to drain as well. Oh, well, it takes all kinds...

Demigrog
2004-Jul-29, 05:01 PM
P.S. Another thing that bothers me, he makes a point to mention that a fridge magnet is not glued to the door, that it is held by magnetic energy. My question for him (or one of his believers/followers) is why does glue get a free pass? The glue holding something onto a fridge itself must be fighting the force of gravity, and in his world would need an infinite "power source" to drain as well. Oh, well, it takes all kinds...

Or for that matter, what energy source is keeping the back side of the magnet from sliding off the front side? Why are there solid objects at all? Surely all matter must be composed of monotomic gasses, or have one heck of a battery... but what holds the battery together? Ugh! Brain freeze... too much exposure to bad science...

gritmonger
2004-Jul-29, 07:27 PM
Simple! The energy is heat- and magnets cool down when left on the fridge long enough. You thought it was that compressor and fin assembly behind the fridge that kept things cold? Wrong! It's the constant energy drain from magnets.

See, when you leave food on a table long enough it cools- because all of that heat energy is going to power the table holding up the food. If you left it there long enough, it would go to absolute zero if it weren't connected to the ground which is where it drains its power from as well. See, the Earth is a giant hot battery from which everything else is drawing energy- which is why planes can't fly without fuel. If they had no fuel they'd freeze if they didn't fall. Which is why it's so cold up high.

That's it! I'm writing a book!

electromagneticpulse
2004-Jul-30, 07:56 PM
So by gritmonger's thoery if we make alot of magnets we can stop all this global warming nonsense. :lol: :lol: :lol:

gritmonger's saved the world, woo!!! go gritmonger :lol:

All the magnetic field does is increase the friction so that it doesnt slip down. Anyway the better question would be how come geckos can stick to the ceiling and glass but they already know that so he's just dumb. :D

Candy
2004-Aug-20, 05:49 AM
Welcome DOOM!

Bill S.
2004-Sep-01, 11:04 PM
D'oh! I didn't think that this was discussed before! I actually ran across it as an ad to a physics website that was discussing dark energy, which was kinda surprising, since the website is a real physics website.

Meteora, yeah, I've been to Canton a few times, not a bad place. Peoria is much better than where I used to live before, Pekin (shudders at the thought of that horrible place).

Trinity, not to worry, my name comes from long before the MyDOOM virus came out. It is a reference to the original DOOM games, which I've been playing since I was 12. I'm 23 now, so I've had it for a very long time.

Hi DoomMaster.

Ever been to Beaverton, OR?

Ravana
2004-Sep-03, 07:48 PM
Y'all shouldn't insult lawyers by comparing this twit to them. Or amoebas, for that matter. "The Final Doorstop" does seem appropriate, though.

Magnetic fields increase friction? And here I thought it was just a bunch of little pixies that held those suckers on. Of course, the pixies are expending energy... so they have to work in shifts. And since they're hovering in front of the magnets, they're expending a lot of heat energy in order to do so. So... far from being able to end global warming with refrigerator magnets, we're actually *causing* it! The more magnets, the more pixies; the more pixies, the more heat....

Okay, maybe not.

While we're pulling out "credentials": I started gaming when the highest technology was hexmapped boards and cardboard chits. My first computer game was that "Star Trek" game where each turn printed out on a separate sheet... played it on that newfangled TRS80 we had when I was in high school. Remember how excited I was when "Pong" came out... Battle Tanks, Breakout, Space Invader... played D&amp;D when it was three little paperbacks in a white cardboard box, etc.

I'm not bragging. Just trying to figure out what my name would be, a la DOOMMaster, if I tried to go back and determine how much of what I played and what I'm best at. And no, none of it desensitized me to violence, turned me into a Satanist, yadda yadda yadda. Not even after you add in the heavy metal. Just turned me into... a cynic? Skeptic? Philosopher? Natural Scientist? Dunno... whatever you call someone who *thinks,* who's willing to question assumptions, my own included.

Seems to me we should get more people playing these. Seriously: is there anyone posting here who is not (and has never been) a gamer? (Probably needs its own string....)