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KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-03, 04:49 PM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110621101135.htm

My question: Is it possible to wake matter up?

Swift
2012-Mar-03, 04:57 PM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110621101135.htm

My question: Is it possible to wake matter up?
You do understand that the terms "asleep" and "awake" in this context have nothing to do with human or animal sleep states; they are just ways of classifying galaxies as to the amount of star formation going on in them (more or less active).

Astronomers have probed into the distant universe and discovered that galaxies display one of two distinct behaviors: they are either awake or asleep, actively forming stars or are not forming any new stars at all.

KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-03, 05:26 PM
You do understand that the terms "asleep" and "awake" in this context have nothing to do with human or animal sleep states; they are just ways of classifying galaxies as to the amount of star formation going on in them (more or less active).
Yes. That is what i meant. However i think there are astronomers who are trying to find similarities between the two.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925092520.htm
Forgetting about similarities, is it possible that by some reason matter may start to form life as a consequence of this phenomena?

Swift
2012-Mar-03, 05:32 PM
Yes. That is what i meant. However i think there are astronomers who are trying to find similarities between the two.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925092520.htm
Forgetting about similarities, is it possible that by some reason matter may start to form life as a consequence of this phenomena?
Again, this has nothing to do with life, as in plants and animals. These are articles about star formation.

The only similarities are poetic and in the minds of creative writers from Science Daily.

Shaula
2012-Mar-03, 09:17 PM
Astronomers are not trying to find similarities, science writers are because it makes articles feel less daunting if they are couched in everyday terms like that

KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-04, 05:47 PM
The articles refer to awake state as a high rate of formation(generation or birth) of stars and asleep state as far less formation of stars. Currently it is known one galaxy(milky way) with life form. In that sense Is this galaxy asleep or awake? Could it be generalized to distinguish between galaxies which have life forms and galaxies with no life form? I know that this is very difficult to answer but obviously since only one galaxy is known, at least one category could be known. I'm asking this question because if the existence of dark matter could be confirmed with gravity, then there could be life forms of dark matter correlated to specific galaxies with dark stars....?
One more question: Can light pass through dark matter?

Strange
2012-Mar-04, 05:58 PM
Currently it is known one galaxy(milky way) with life form. In that sense Is this galaxy asleep or awake?

There is no connection.


Could it be generalized to distinguish between galaxies which have life forms and galaxies with no life form?

No.


I'm asking this question because if the existence of dark matter could be confirmed with gravity

Dark matter is, currently, only known through its gravitational effects.


then there could be life forms of dark matter correlated to specific galaxies with dark stars....?

With our current understanding of dark matter, there can be neither dark matter life nor dark matter stars (it only interacts via gravity).


One more question: Can light pass through dark matter?

Yes. Dark matter does not interact with electromagnetic radiation. That is why it is called dark.

KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-04, 06:14 PM
Yes. Dark matter does not interact with electromagnetic radiation. That is why it is called dark.
Does this also mean that if a piece of dark matter enters atmosphere or fall in a sea, it may sink without any visual indication?

Strange
2012-Mar-04, 06:42 PM
Does this also mean that if a piece of dark matter enters atmosphere or fall in a sea, it may sink without any visual indication?

It appears that dark matter only interacts via gravity, not the electromagnetic force. Therefore it would (and presumably does) pass through the planet and us without any effect.

KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-04, 07:16 PM
It appears that dark matter only interacts via gravity, not the electromagnetic force. Therefore it would (and presumably does) pass through the planet and us without any effect.
If dark matter has anti gravity effects, it may not allow the formation of stars, and the galaxy with a certain amount of dark matter to some extent may lose the ability to generate stars and become an asleep galaxy.
However what would be the bouncing effect of a large piece of dark matter with the earth? And if momentum is conserved then how is this energy supposed to affect the earth?

tusenfem
2012-Mar-04, 07:26 PM
If dark matter has anti gravity effects, it may not allow the formation of stars, and the galaxy with a certain amount of dark matter to some extent may lose the ability to generate stars and become an asleep galaxy.


Dark matter was postulated because there was too little gravity, so any idea that it would have "anti gravity" effects would rather be counter productive, now wouldn't it?



However what would be the bouncing effect of a large piece of dark matter with the earth? And if momentum is conserved then how is this energy supposed to affect the earth?

As we don't know what dark matter is, this would all just be weird speculation, which should be kept out of Q&A.

KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-04, 07:52 PM
Dark matter was postulated because there was too little gravity, so any idea that it would have "anti gravity" effects would rather be counter productive, now wouldn't it?

You know it is said that dark matter could be the cause of the expansion of the universe, which to some extent means a kind of force acting against gravity. So may i say "against gravity" instead of "anti gravity"?
Nevertheless, the articles refer to the fact that some galaxies lose the ability to form stars, what is the cause of it then?

Strange
2012-Mar-04, 07:57 PM
You know it is said that dark matter could be the cause of the expansion of the universe, which to some extent means a kind of force acting against gravity.

You seem to be confused on two points. I think you are thinking of dark energy not dark matter. And dark energy is hypothesized to explain the accelerating expansion (not the expansion). But, yes, dark energy can be considered to provide a repulsive force.


Nevertheless, the articles refer to the fact that some galaxies lose the ability to form stars, what is the cause of it then?

Presumably a change in the balance of material available to form stars (clouds of gas and dust being used up) or something like that?

moog
2012-Mar-04, 10:41 PM
However what would be the bouncing effect of a large piece of dark matter with the earth?

As currently understood there could not possibly be a large piece of dark matter. As it only interacts through gravity there would be no way for these particles to glom on to each other.


And if momentum is conserved then how is this energy supposed to affect the earth?

You may be thinking of Dark Energy which is different. (And much less understood)

Van Rijn
2012-Mar-04, 11:46 PM
Nevertheless, the articles refer to the fact that some galaxies lose the ability to form stars, what is the cause of it then?

From the article:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070925092520.htm


The large amount of material attracted by these black holes generates enormous quantities of energy that subsequently heats up the gas in the galaxy.

As a result of this heating the gas is no longer able to form new stars. The researchers did indeed discover a black hole in a number of the galaxies they investigated. These were mainly the galaxies where the star formation was inhibited less than 1 billion years ago. These results support the idea that black holes limit the birth of new stars.

Hot gas isn't going to collapse into stars. That has nothing to do with some anti-gravity force. There are other reasons for star production can be reduced (gas can be stripped from a galaxy through interaction, for instance) but the active black hole issue is the focus of that article.

KhashayarShatti
2012-Mar-06, 06:54 PM
Dark matter was postulated because there was too little gravity, so any idea that it would have "anti gravity" effects would rather be counter productive, now wouldn't it?

Sorry that i misunderstood you thinking that saying anti gravity is the wrong term to use arguing that dark energy(wrongly quoted as dark matter) is said to have this effect. However i started with dark matter having gravity effects(as you refer to it), and later what if it has anti gravity effects.
My main focus on this subject is actually the possibility that may exist about different states of matter that may have different properties due to different information conditions that can affect matter intelligence causing asleep or awake or perhaps aware states regarding birth and formation of something such as stars(not to be confused with awake and asleep states of humans).
Let me give an example: I hope i'm right to say that technology is the result of specific ability of humans only. So if humans can be awake then technology exists. But if they are asleep this technology does not exist. So if something is supposed to be born or produced, the necessary condition is awake state. These two things as birth and technology do not exist in asleep state, do they?
Is it now possible to refer to it as a degree of awake state? i.e. the more the awake state, the more the technology(educated people in "technology development", sometimes refer to technology=techno+logy as created products of humans).
Summarizing: Can awake state have different degrees of existence and any effect on technology or creativity?

tusenfem
2012-Mar-06, 07:07 PM
This has nothing to do anymore with the OP. Now you are just discussing philosophically about how you can attach the term "awake" or "asleep" to a certain process, which may or may not have "in between" states.

You would be wrong to think that technology is a human trait, as there are many animals that use tools, which can be interpreted as technology.

You just give too much weight and importance to the terms used in the OP and seem to want to build and ATM around that.

NEOWatcher
2012-Mar-06, 07:09 PM
Summarizing: Can awake state have different degrees of existence and any effect on technology or creativity?
No; You are speaking metaphysics. That is outside the scope of this board.

Unless you are writing a sequel to the Matrix. Then it would be science fiction.

pzkpfw
2012-Mar-06, 08:08 PM
We've been through this kind of thing before: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/127710-Perceptual-Learning, some of the content is even the same (sleep vs awake, applied to matter http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/127710-Perceptual-Learning?p=1991990#post1991990 )

Please re-read the moderator note at the end of that thread. http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/127710-Perceptual-Learning?p=1992042#post1992042