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dvb
2004-Aug-20, 09:03 PM
When you get your health card or your drivers license here, they ask you to fill out a form asking wether you're willing to donate your body organs or not when you die. That is, for medical research or someone in need of a transplant.

My answer is yes. Anyone else? :D

tjm220
2004-Aug-20, 09:11 PM
Not opposed to doing it but being diabetic it might not be possible. I know I'm not allowed to donate blood products. :(

SciFi Chick
2004-Aug-20, 09:13 PM
Maybe I should have said maybe instead of no. My point is that I want them to try everything possible to save me, and I'm afraid they might be a little too gung ho if they see I'm willing to donate organs. :P

The Supreme Canuck
2004-Aug-20, 09:14 PM
Yeah, same here. They need to get to organs quickly for them to be viable. I'm afraid they might try to get at them a little too quickly. If it wasn't for that, definitely. So I voted maybe.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Aug-20, 09:16 PM
Personally, I think it should be an Opt-Out Program, rather than an Opt-In.

Spread the Organs around more, that way.

Besides, it's a Great Way to Pick up Women.

"Why Yes, as a Matter of Fact, I am an Organ Doner."

dvb
2004-Aug-20, 09:16 PM
Maybe I should have said maybe instead of no. My point is that I want them to try everything possible to save me, and I'm afraid they might be a little too gung ho if they see I'm willing to donate organs. :P

lol

Way I see it is, if I'm dead, what do I need those body parts for.

I agree with you though. I would prefer to be saved if it meant I could live longer. But if it's already past my time, and have no chance of being brought back to life, I have no problems with it. :D

Kesh
2004-Aug-20, 09:26 PM
I don't see doctors as intentionally giving up just because there's an organ waiting list. Most often, the people working on you will have nothing to do with that process.

I have no reservations about being an organ donor.

Irishman
2004-Aug-20, 09:26 PM
Right now there is almost no realistic risk of having your organs removed prior to you being dead. They actually confirm braindeath before removing organs. Also, they look for almost any reason whatsoever to not remove your organs. Even if you fill out your donor card and have a big sign "Take my organs, please!", if your next of kin standing there says no they won't take them. In fact, if they can't find your next of kin to confirm your organ donor card, they are hesitant to take them.

Donnie B.
2004-Aug-20, 09:31 PM
I'll donate, if anybody wants 'em... :lol:

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Aug-20, 09:36 PM
I'll donate, if anybody wants 'em... :lol:

Yeak, I've got a Lung, a Kidney, Half a Liver, and a Testicle.

Anybody want 'em?

First Come, First Served!

ToSeek
2004-Aug-20, 10:17 PM
Way I see it is, if I'm dead, what do I need those body parts for?



My thoughts exactly.

zebo-the-fat
2004-Aug-20, 10:21 PM
If it's a choice between using my old gloppy bits to help someone or feeding the worms with them .... whatever did the worms do for me? (You would need to be desperate to want my old bits though!) :D

SAMU
2004-Aug-20, 11:36 PM
I vote no.

In the donation process there is insufficient transparency with regard to donator, recipient and doctor.

It is a conflict of interest for doctors to be involved in both caring for one patient and also providing vital organs from the patient to another patient. This holds true no mater how many layers of doctors there are between donor and recipient.

If you could sell your organs then there would not be as much motive for your doctor to take, allow to be taken or cause to be taken, your organs before he should. The recipient could go directly to the donor to deal transparently for the organ rather than having the need to go through the intrinsicly corruptable donation process.

Surely there is still the chance that this process could provide motive for malpractice but since the patient is sharing in the money available for the procedure there will be less money available from a patient inclined to pay the doctor for malpractical service.

Spacewriter
2004-Aug-20, 11:41 PM
Personally, I think it should be an Opt-Out Program, rather than an Opt-In.

Spread the Organs around more, that way.

Besides, it's a Great Way to Pick up Women.

"Why Yes, as a Matter of Fact, I am an Organ Doner."

I suppose that depends on which organ you're trying to donate at the time.

;)

AZgazer
2004-Aug-21, 12:10 AM
Maybe I should have said maybe instead of no. My point is that I want them to try everything possible to save me, and I'm afraid they might be a little too gung ho if they see I'm willing to donate organs. :P

What she said!!!!

Lurker
2004-Aug-21, 12:23 AM
Maybe I should have said maybe instead of no. My point is that I want them to try everything possible to save me, and I'm afraid they might be a little too gung ho if they see I'm willing to donate organs. :P
hmmmmm :-k

um... well...

hmmmmm :-k

Naw... we'd make 'em try to save you first.... :P

(ducks thrown liver... )

The Supreme Canuck
2004-Aug-21, 12:51 AM
Of course I'll try to make up for my squeemishness by donating blood. In fact, I'd encourage everyone here to do so as well.

Stylesjl
2004-Aug-21, 12:56 AM
If i was dead, yes

What use exactly do organs have in dead bodies? Give them to the living they can use it much better

Forget those crappy ethics just remove those organs and give them to someone so they can live longer

Kebsis
2004-Aug-21, 01:23 AM
"Why Yes, as a Matter of Fact, I am an Organ Doner."

Already?


No I will not donate organs. Because I would not want some innocent person to be burdened with any of my disgusting, barely-operational organs.

FP
2004-Aug-21, 03:25 AM
Honestly, a donor is very dead before any organs can be harvested. There are more legal hoops to be jumped through than you have dreamt, I assure you.

As was mentioned, even if you have signed an organ donor statement on your driver's license, no harvesting will occur if a relative objects.

I would challenge anyone to find a documented case where vital organs have been harvested prior to death in the USA. (I qualify this because I read an article in the New Yorker about out-sourcing to India, and it was mentioned that one of the major exports from the Madras area was kidneys--who knows the outcome for the donors.)

Most of us I hope will live to a ripe old age. About the only organ worth harvesting at that point is the cornea -- you could give the gift of sight to a blind person!

Should I die younger, anything that would be of use is fair game!

paulie jay
2004-Aug-21, 03:54 AM
I have always been a donor. No qualms whatsoever.

Excelsior
2004-Aug-21, 08:20 AM
Nah I dont think I would donate my organs after death. It is probobly un islamic.

Maksutov
2004-Aug-21, 09:12 AM
Nah I dont think I would donate my organs after death. It is probobly un islamic.

What if you are going to get a hand cut off for stealing? And someone had just had their same (right or left) hand accidentally amputated (say, an industrial accident, for example)? What then?

:-k

Maksutov
2004-Aug-21, 09:13 AM
I posted "Maybe So" since by the time I check out, everything will be so worn out that it wouldn't be of any use to anyone. 8)

PeterFab
2004-Aug-21, 10:08 AM
I am a registered donor, and a regular blood donor, so my vote should be obvious. :D

Argos
2004-Aug-21, 01:07 PM
I doubt anyone would want anything from this old and tortured body of mine... But if you find something that can be useful in this mount of garbage, go ahead. Itīs yours.

jaki
2004-Aug-21, 03:26 PM
As a heavy smoker and occasional drinker i don't think my heart and liver would be any use to anyone, my eyesight's not perfect either. I believe however that we should have a choice in this matter and a opt out scheme is totally outrageous.

Jpax2003
2004-Aug-21, 06:34 PM
I will not be donating organs. It violates my personal theological beliefs. I used to be all for it, but in my search for ultimate truth I realized it may not be preferable. I will also not receive donor organs. I have no problem with blood donation and still do it occasionally. I think of blood as non-permanent donation, whereas organs are permanent.

The state of the art may one day reach the point where we can grow our own replacement parts from culture or stem cell or use serviceable mechanical or biomechanical organs. I am not necessarily against this.

As I am considering how the soul fits into the body I can not in good conscience give up part of it without having that answer. Sounds silly, probably. When that young girl was getting those multiple organ transplants in FL, I asked the Big G to show me if a re-evaluation was in order. The girl died from medical malpractice and so my views are still contrary to donation. I do, however, allow for the possibility of further re-evaluation. Perhaps the issue is not bad concept, but bad execution.

SciFi Chick
2004-Aug-21, 08:08 PM
Honestly, a donor is very dead before any organs can be harvested. There are more legal hoops to be jumped through than you have dreamt, I assure you.

As was mentioned, even if you have signed an organ donor statement on your driver's license, no harvesting will occur if a relative objects.

I would challenge anyone to find a documented case where vital organs have been harvested prior to death in the USA. (I qualify this because I read an article in the New Yorker about out-sourcing to India, and it was mentioned that one of the major exports from the Madras area was kidneys--who knows the outcome for the donors.)

Most of us I hope will live to a ripe old age. About the only organ worth harvesting at that point is the cornea -- you could give the gift of sight to a blind person!

Should I die younger, anything that would be of use is fair game!

While I'm certain what you say is true, my emotions are in charge with this particular decision. Assuming I was ever in a coma, and they made the decision to turn off the machine, my mother knows what to do, so I'm not opposed to donating in that sense. :D

gritmonger
2004-Aug-21, 08:16 PM
I consider the people it might save- and considering 20 people had to be screened after the one donor died of rabies, you can get a good idea of how many healthy parts go to how many people.

Call it a hedge bet in case I'm otherwise forgotten.

However, I have put in my will that John Edwards and his crappy specials are not allowed within ten miles of me or my organs.

Irishman
2004-Aug-21, 08:39 PM
In the donation process there is insufficient transparency with regard to donator, recipient and doctor.

Perhaps. On the other hand, would you really want it to be a case of "Oh, it's Phil Plait, sure he can take my liver, but don't you dare give my heart to Bill Kaysing!" In other words, donating organs is not about who is getting them, it's about whether you'll help someone else or not. Also, do you really want to burden your family with having to make all the determinations and arrangements for various organs and their recipients during their time of grief? I mean, you just died. It's bad enough they have insurance and funeral woes ahead of them, not to mention estate, etc. But now you want them to have to sort out what to do with your pieces? Come on!


It is a conflict of interest for doctors to be involved in both caring for one patient and also providing vital organs from the patient to another patient. This holds true no mater how many layers of doctors there are between donor and recipient.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. The donation teams are totally different sets of doctors from your physician. Doctors have to be involved in both parts of the process - they're inherently medical situations. But they're not the same doctors.


If you could sell your organs then there would not be as much motive for your doctor to take, allow to be taken or cause to be taken, your organs before he should. The recipient could go directly to the donor to deal transparently for the organ rather than having the need to go through the intrinsicly corruptable donation process.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. You're saying an exchange of money makes the situation less susceptible to corruption? I think most people would argue the opposite - the fact that it's a donation and not a compensation is what makes it safer and less open to corruption. If someone is getting paid by the organ transplant, he is going to be more aggressive in making sales, but if he get paid either way, then he is more likely to be interested in the specifics of the situation.

Also, the direct dealing seems logistically a nightmare. Oh no, I've been told my heart is failing, now I and my family have to call up every hospital in the country to find out if they have someone about to die and can I have their organs, what you want how much? And the receiving end, you get called up to the hospital, your loved one was in a car crash with a massive brain injury, not sure whether they will recover or have brain damage or go into a permanent coma. And now you have to field dozens of phone calls "Hey, if they die can I have the liver?" "I could use a lung or two." "I call the heart!"


Surely there is still the chance that this process could provide motive for malpractice but since the patient is sharing in the money available for the procedure there will be less money available from a patient inclined to pay the doctor for malpractical service.

I don't understand.

Andromeda321
2004-Aug-21, 09:30 PM
Been an organ donor since I got my driver's liscence and there was never a question in my mind that I wouldn't be (I don't weigh enough to give blood). If you're dead you're dead and it's not like your body looks horribly mangled in the casket (they make sure if you're a donor to make you look like you would normally). And as for the idea that "the doctor might not help me out if I'm a donor" well honestly, that seems kind of stupid. Why would he not help one sick person in order to help another possibly even more sick person he doesn't even know?

dvb
2004-Aug-22, 04:18 AM
Way I see it is, if I'm dead, what do I need those body parts for?



My thoughts exactly.

BTW, thank you for correcting my punctuation. :D

Excelsior
2004-Aug-22, 04:21 AM
Nah I dont think I would donate my organs after death. It is probobly un islamic.

What if you are going to get a hand cut off for stealing? And someone had just had their same (right or left) hand accidentally amputated (say, an industrial accident, for example)? What then?

:-k

I wont steal in the first place. :)

Bawheid
2004-Aug-23, 12:08 PM
I'll be very dead, as FP says, so take what you like.

I've already donated whole blood, plasma, platelets and something else blood related whose name escapes me for the moment. I'm on the register for bone marrow though never been asked.

Would those who wouldn't donate accept a transplant?

Swift
2004-Aug-23, 01:18 PM
I've been a donor as long as they've put it on driver's licenses. I've been a blood donor for over 20 years, though they won't take it anymore (lived more than 6 months in Europe, so I'm a potential mad cow).

The bumper sticker "Don't take your organ's to heaven, heaven knows we need them here" sums up my feelings. The idea that doctors will do less for a patient if they are an organ donor is bunk, IMHO. But if you have an emotional problem with that, I guess I can't argue it.

For more information Here (http://www.organdonor.gov/) is a website about it, and Here (http://www.organdonor.gov/myths_and_facts.htm) is some myths and facts.


Myth: Doctors will not try to save my life if they know I want to be a donor.

Fact: The medical staff trying to save lives is completely separate from the transplant team. Donation takes place and transplant surgeons are called in only after all efforts to save a life have been exhausted and death is imminent or has been declared.


Myth: People can recover from brain death.

Fact: People can recover from comas, but not brain death. Coma and brain death are not the same. Brain death is final.

gethen
2004-Aug-23, 01:20 PM
I won't be needig them, so have at it, docs.

ToSeek
2004-Aug-23, 01:23 PM
I've gotten an early start. I've already donated four teeth to science. ;)

frogesque
2004-Aug-23, 10:08 PM
ToSeek:

I've gotten an early start. I've already donated four teeth to science.


The tooth fairy doesn't count!

mike alexander
2004-Aug-23, 10:19 PM
I'm listed as a donor, so is my wife.

My feeling is that once the flame is out, recycle the candle.

Morrolan
2004-Aug-25, 06:36 AM
i'm a donor too... as far as i'm concerned they can scoop out the lot if it can improve someone else's chance of living a normal life.

Brady Yoon
2004-Aug-25, 06:40 AM
I'll donate them for sure. Might as well help people if you die.

AGN Fuel
2004-Aug-25, 07:37 AM
I will have absolutely no use for them once I'm dead, so they can have what they want. I have also specifically told my wife that my organs are available to anyone who wants 'em.

(I also told her not to waste money on a funeral, but to see if she can sneak me out with the garbage on the Monday night pickup. Hey - I'm dead. What the hell will I care??)

Essan
2004-Aug-25, 11:07 AM
I have always had a problem with this issue.

On the one hand once I'm dead they can do whatever they like with my body. Take what you want. Feed what's left to the Lions for all I care.

On the other hand, should I be encouraging the continued gross human overpopulation of this planet? What if my organs save someone who goes on to have 10 kids? Perpetuating human existance is surely a crime against all other life.

So, when my human side has the upper, my answer is an emphatic yes. But, in my darker 'Earth' moods it's most definitely No........

Bawheid
2004-Aug-25, 11:11 AM
I haven't thought of that, but I'm still an emphatic yes. A number of the things that are transplanted improve the quality of life rather than give life.

I would like a register of donors if for no other reason than if you aren't on it, you don't receive a transplant.

bearcub
2004-Aug-25, 05:26 PM
I've also been a donor since I got my driver's license.

I figure, if I'm done with them, let them help someone else in real need.

Andromeda321
2004-Aug-25, 08:30 PM
Perpetuating human existance is surely a crime against all other life.

Ok, sorry, but what's so wrong with keeping us humans alive? I can't speak much for others, but I do rather enjoy being alive and all... :-?

pumpkinpie
2004-Aug-25, 08:54 PM
I would like a register of donors if for no other reason than if you aren't on it, you don't receive a transplant.

I partially agree with that--if you aren't willing to give up your organs after you're done with them, why should you deserve someone else's?

But then we'd have to get very technical about *why* you aren't on the "register of donors." What if the very disease that causes you to need a transplant prohibits you from qualifying as an organ donor? (Don't ask, I couldn't list any specific diseases.) That just wouldn't be fair, without going into registers broken up into "by choice" or "medically unqualified." Too complicated!

I look back at my first statement, and it looks so harsh! I'm really not that mean. I just wish most people would choose to be donors!

SciFi Chick
2004-Aug-25, 08:59 PM
Not to get political, but this could all be solved with stem cell research. :D

Swift
2004-Aug-25, 09:33 PM
Not to get political, but this could all be solved with stem cell research. :D
I am all for stem cell research, but the promise of this research and the fruits are at least years, if not much longer, apart. In the meanwhile, people are dying for a lack of donor organs.

SciFi Chick
2004-Aug-25, 09:36 PM
Not to get political, but this could all be solved with stem cell research. :D
I am all for stem cell research, but the promise of this research and the fruits are at least years, if not much longer, apart. In the meanwhile, people are dying for a lack of donor organs.

And are you certain it's because people are unwilling to donate? I mean, what are the odds of the right person dying in just the right way to provide an organ?

And, everyone here seems to think I said I wasn't going to donate my organs. That's not what I said at all. I said I didn't want to list it on my driver's license.

dvb
2004-Aug-25, 09:59 PM
And, everyone here seems to think I said I wasn't going to donate my organs. That's not what I said at all. I said I didn't want to list it on my driver's license.

You did? :-?

Candy
2004-Aug-25, 10:15 PM
I'm a total body donor. The more questions I asked, the creepier it seemed. My body will be completely shaved from head to toe. My body may be around for student use up to 5 years after I die. My body will be cremated afterwards. :o I still signed my body away for the betterment of science. :D

I have to add: I do like it when a man tells me he is an organ donor. 8-[

SciFi Chick
2004-Aug-25, 11:42 PM
And, everyone here seems to think I said I wasn't going to donate my organs. That's not what I said at all. I said I didn't want to list it on my driver's license.

You did? :-?

Well if you would just READ my mind, we wouldn't have these problems would we? :wink:

I see now that I only implied it by saying that I was worried about what they would do if they could see that I was going to donate them - meaning see it on my driver's license.

Later, I mentioned that my mother knows what to do. One of these days, I will put it in writing. I'm just not comfortable with the driver's license thing.

I have three kidneys, and I'm perfectly willing to donate one now under the right circumstances. I also donate blood on a regular basis.

Tensor
2004-Aug-26, 01:29 AM
It's listed on my driver's license and they can have any part they want (as long as Monty Python isn't sent to get it). I also used to donate blood, but I can't now, due to Gulf War Syndrome. I had given over 2 gallons before I had to stop.

FP
2004-Aug-26, 01:37 AM
But then we'd have to get very technical about *why* you aren't on the "register of donors." What if the very disease that causes you to need a transplant prohibits you from qualifying as an organ donor? (Don't ask, I couldn't list any specific diseases.) That just wouldn't be fair, without going into registers broken up into "by choice" or "medically unqualified." Too complicated!



Many people with Hepatitis C will need liver transplants in the future, but are unable to donate organs because of their disease.

Would you deny a new organ to a person because of an infectious disease? Would it matter if he or she got the disease from a dirty needle? In a tainted blood transfusion? Unsafe sex?

Who decides?

I'm not sure I have any answers to these questions.

PS--Blood is screened for all known forms of hepatitis now, so the blood supply is as safe as we know how to make it.

dvb
2004-Aug-26, 02:17 AM
Lets not turn this thread into a political debate. Please and thank you. :)

pmcolt
2004-Aug-26, 06:33 AM
I'm personally not a donor. First, I plan to live forever. Second, the thought of it just makes me squeamish. (Yes, I'm a wimp.) Third, I don't like the idea of my most personal possessions being handed out to strangers after my death without having any control over the selection process, and my organs are about the most personal possessions I have. But, I'm fairly young, so hopefully I have plenty of time left to change my mind.

Essan
2004-Aug-26, 12:29 PM
Perpetuating human existance is surely a crime against all other life.

Ok, sorry, but what's so wrong with keeping us humans alive? I can't speak much for others, but I do rather enjoy being alive and all... :-?

Try asking the Whales what they think ;) Or the dodo!

Swift
2004-Aug-26, 01:41 PM
Not to get political, but this could all be solved with stem cell research. :D
I am all for stem cell research, but the promise of this research and the fruits are at least years, if not much longer, apart. In the meanwhile, people are dying for a lack of donor organs.

And are you certain it's because people are unwilling to donate? I mean, what are the odds of the right person dying in just the right way to provide an organ?

And, everyone here seems to think I said I wasn't going to donate my organs. That's not what I said at all. I said I didn't want to list it on my driver's license.
Sorry SciFi Chick. I wasn't making any statement about you donating or not. This is all a personal judgement that we each need to individually make; I just hope people don't make it based on incorrect information (such as doctors won't work as hard to keep you alive). But even given the facts, one still has to balance the decision with one's moral and emotional side.

I was just expressing my support for stem cell research, but with the caveat that I didn't think that it was a near term replacement for organ donation.

As far as the odds of saving someone with, for example, liver failure, they are probably not good, even with available donors. But if the shoe was on the other foot, and I needed the liver transplant, I hope there would be someone kind enough to give me the hope. And its the least I can do for someone else.

SciFi Chick
2004-Aug-26, 01:46 PM
Sorry SciFi Chick.

No problem. I just wanted to make sure I was being clear, which I obviously wasn't, since I thought I'd said something I hadn't actually said. :oops:


I wasn't making any statement about you donating or not. This is all a personal judgement that we each need to individually make; I just hope people don't make it based on incorrect information (such as doctors won't work as hard to keep you alive). But even given the facts, one still has to balance the decision with one's moral and emotional side.

That's an interesting clarification. I confess I was not aware that this subject made some people so emotional. I have been enlightened.


I was just expressing my support for stem cell research, but with the caveat that I didn't think that it was a near term replacement for organ donation.

Ah. I see. I guess since I see all of the amazing advances they are making, I just expect them to keep making them and quickly. :D

I also like the idea of cloning developing to the point where you could just clone a healthy person's organ and use that. I would be all about donating DNA and such for that type of project.


As far as the odds of saving someone with, for example, liver failure, they are probably not good, even with available donors. But if the shoe was on the other foot, and I needed the liver transplant, I hope there would be someone kind enough to give me the hope. And its the least I can do for someone else.

I guess my stance is that I want it to be considered a kindness and not an obligation or responsibility.

Swift
2004-Aug-26, 01:57 PM
...
I was just expressing my support for stem cell research, but with the caveat that I didn't think that it was a near term replacement for organ donation.

Ah. I see. I guess since I see all of the amazing advances they are making, I just expect them to keep making them and quickly. :D

I also like the idea of cloning developing to the point where you could just clone a healthy person's organ and use that. I would be all about donating DNA and such for that type of project.
I'm no expert about such things, but I think it will be a long time (10 years or more) before we see such things. My impression is even given enough funding and viable cell lines, there is a lot of work till you get to the point of making organs. If if you "convince" a stem cell to become, for example, a liver cell (which is about the current state of research), you still have to get a bunch of cells to organize into a complete organ, like a liver, and keep the proto-liver alive while it grows.

Once the process is achieved it will have to be tested and in the US, get FDA approval. That can take years by itself.

I suspect that the first use of stem cells will be for applications where single or small groups of cells are useful, such as replacing the insulin making cells in a pancreas.

gritmonger
2004-Aug-31, 03:25 PM
As an update on this subject: a company has recently applied for a patent on "organ vitrification" a method of "freezing" tissues into a glasslike state preventing crystal formation.


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/nios-ppp083004.php

Now, when will they be able to do this to whole sick people and thaw them later?