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BigDon
2012-Apr-03, 12:02 AM
Does anybody know how many kilobytes an average 9000 word story is in wordpad?

How many words are needed to make an official:

Short story.

Novella.

Novel.

Anything else you can think of in this area that might be helpful.

I've recently discovered that writing a completely fictional story lights the same area of my brain as does refereeing a good role playing game. Which gives me a big fat endorphin high for some reason.

ABR.
2012-Apr-03, 12:31 AM
BigDon writing stories -- WOO HOO!

mike alexander, among others, will give you far better info than I can on the word count stuff. One suggestion is to check out (i.e. Google) the Writer's Guidelines for any publications to which you want to submit stories. As I recall, many give a breakdown on word counts so you'll have a good market definition for each category.

Solfe
2012-Apr-03, 12:41 AM
Don,

First let me say, don't write long works in wordpad. I think wordpad doesn't wrap text and you will have one big formatting fiasco at the end.

I would term a short story as anything under 50,000 by a fair amount. A novella is about 50,000 words and a novel is perhaps 200,000 words. You could shift in either longer or short by a large amount.

As for software, I would suggest the following in this order - Word, Wordperfect (special needs only), and Open Office (free), Libre Office (basically a new version of Open Office). Additionally look into RedNotebook. It is free note taking software for almost all OS'es. It comes in handy.

It is in your best interest to get your hands on a Writer's Market, it published yearly and check what publisher guidelines are available in that book. Your local library may have one or more copies available for the past couple of years. Then follow up with the publishers website.

If no software data is available, I would use whatever software you have on hand and be prepared to change fonts, margins, format, etc. No, I don't mean go back to Wordpad. Use Open Office which is free, if you feel the urge to write right now. You should write in a stripped down manner, so you don't have to go back and change from one type of format to another.

Keep in mind these are word counts with do not translate to book pages, your type written pages will be much longer than book written pages.

Now please, please, please write that book. And then write more of them.

orionjim
2012-Apr-03, 02:09 AM
Does anybody know how many kilobytes an average 9000 word story is in wordpad?

How many words are needed to make an official:

Short story.

Novella.

Novel.

Anything else you can think of in this area that might be helpful.

I've recently discovered that writing a completely fictional story lights the same area of my brain as does refereeing a good role playing game. Which gives me a big fat endorphin high for some reason.

This is a good explanation of the various lengths…
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100620231711AAUL2rD


A 9000 word story would be about 60k to 70k in size.

Good luck...

Jim

BigDon
2012-Apr-03, 04:49 AM
Oh hey, thanks guys!

You rock as usual.

Strange
2012-Apr-03, 09:39 AM
A collection of very short stories: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/sixwords.html

Some of them are rather good ("He read his obituary with confusion.", "Computer, did we bring batteries? Computer?").
I'm not sure if the Hemingway thing is true, though...

HenrikOlsen
2012-Apr-03, 10:25 AM
Don,

First let me say, don't write long works in wordpad. I think wordpad doesn't wrap text and you will have one big formatting fiasco at the end.
Unless you're going to print the books yourself, formatting (apart from italics/bold within the text) can go hang, that's what you have an editor for.
And even if you do publish it yourself, formatting is a task to do after writing, not during.

WordPad has no problem with wrapping paragraphs without breaking up the lines, which I expect is the problem you're thinking of.

And it has the advantage that formatting is minimal enough to not get in the way of writing.

Solfe
2012-Apr-03, 11:42 AM
WordPad has no problem with wrapping paragraphs without breaking up the lines, which I expect is the problem you're thinking of.


I must have been thinking of notepad. A novel in notepad would be a nightmare. :)

jokergirl
2012-Apr-03, 11:43 AM
I use emacs for writing. Formatting should come last.

;)

Tog
2012-Apr-03, 12:46 PM
Wordpad has an option to toggle wrapping on and off. Where this can be found varies with the version you have.

Don, if you want to go down this path, check out www.terribleminds.com. WARNING: The language used is not safe for BAUT, but I doubt any of it would offend you. He posts lists of things writers should know, and it's not genre specific. He's also got a few books on the subject out, which is where the lists come from.

I picked up one of his novellas and didn't care a whole lot for it, but the advice he gives jives well with things I've seen written in far less colorful ways.

Cougar
2012-Apr-03, 01:07 PM
I would suggest the following in this order - Word, Wordperfect (special needs only), and Open Office (free)...

I used to be a total proponent for MS Word. Then I started working at a place that principally used WordPerfect. I actually like WordPerfect better. It's likely expensive, though. But why do you say "special needs only"?

Open Office is a free download off the web, works fine, and you can't beat the price.

IsaacKuo
2012-Apr-03, 01:15 PM
I must have been thinking of notepad. A novel in notepad would be a nightmare. :)
Notepad also has the option to word wrap.

ToSeek
2012-Apr-03, 01:39 PM
The Science Fiction Writers of America uses the following definitions:
1-7,499 words: short story
7,500-17,499 words: novelette
17,500-39,999 words: novella
40,000-Lord of the Rings: novel

Fazor
2012-Apr-03, 02:23 PM
In my experience, there's not really a set definition and can very by publisher (which is who seems to usually decide what their minimum word-count is for a particular type of story.) If you're writing for yourself, then don't worry about it. Just write to whatever length it takes you to tell your story.

Which isn't bad advice for any writer, though if you're trying to make a living writing novels, you probably want to make sure you write enough to be considered a novel. ;)

DonM435
2012-Apr-03, 02:59 PM
Any good word processor will give you a word count on demand, although they may use different rules as to what constitutes a "word."

(I really could have used that feature when I was in high school: I could have stopped at exactly X words when doing a hopelessly boring assignment and not wasted any additional seconds.)

If Microsoft Works came installed on your computer, it has a word processing program that's pretty much a junior version of Word.

Microsoft has been improving WordPad (it used to be called Write, as I recall) with each new Windows release. I think it's just a stripped down hack of their previous version of Word.

Trouble is, I like to use WordPad for quick 'n' dirty writing, but the Windows 7 version has the funky "ribbon" interface, which I cannot abide much of the time. I found that I could locate the old WordPad.exe on my XP computer and copy it over to the new one, and it works just fine there.

LookingSkyward
2012-Apr-03, 03:03 PM
Is anyone else just thrilled that Don is looking at writing? Get 'em, big guy, I'm looking forward to seeing you in print!

Fazor
2012-Apr-03, 03:54 PM
Is anyone else just thrilled that Don is looking at writing? Get 'em, big guy, I'm looking forward to seeing you in print!

Yes! I was tempted to plead he use Google Docs on public setting so that we can all follow along, but that wouldn't be fair. (I'd hate to have anyone see my rough drafts of my writing.)

HenrikOlsen
2012-Apr-03, 05:57 PM
Yes! I was tempted to plead he use Google Docs on public setting so that we can all follow along, but that wouldn't be fair. (I'd hate to have anyone see my rough drafts of my writing.)
Plus a publisher is very likely to consider that prior publication when deciding on the type of contract to pay for.

swampyankee
2012-Apr-04, 01:42 AM
Most publications have their own manuscript preparation rules, but a good starting point is this piece by Vonda N. McIntyre (http://www.sfwa.org/2008/11/manuscript-preparation/).

I look forward to seeing BigDon in print. He regularly makes my day.

Fazor
2012-Apr-04, 02:35 AM
I look forward to seeing BigDon in print. He regularly makes my day.

I think you have it backwards 'caus when I think of BigDon, I picture him as the one growling the line "Make my day, punk!"

Solfe
2012-Apr-04, 11:04 AM
I used to be a total proponent for MS Word. Then I started working at a place that principally used WordPerfect. I actually like WordPerfect better. It's likely expensive, though. But why do you say "special needs only"?

Open Office is a free download off the web, works fine, and you can't beat the price.

What I have found in the Writer's Market books (plus publisher websites) is that many companies do not stipulate what software to use for writing only output format, but handful specifically do stipulate that they only work in Wordperfect.

I say special needs as if you are producing a work for "anyone" then the only reason to use Wordperfect is your personal preference. It isn't to down play that software package, but you can get more "bang for your buck" by using Open Office (or Libre) or Word which are more generic. (Ah! Brains burning... Suggested MS product... The Burn! The Burn!)

I have seen similar (but fewer) companies that only use Mac variants of software.

In a perfect world, I would have a machine with Word, Open Office and Wordperfect on it just for writing purposes, but I can't seem to justify it to my wife.

DoggerDan
2012-Apr-04, 02:35 PM
As for software, I would suggest the following in this order - Word, Wordperfect (special needs only), and Open Office (free), Libre Office (basically a new version of Open Office). Additionally look into RedNotebook. It is free note taking software for almost all OS'es. It comes in handy.

I've been using Notepad++ (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/), as of late. I'm not a programmer, but it was recommended to me by the editor of a regional publication for whom I write, as they have to reformat all content anyway, and they prefer getting it as clean as possible. It stores each paragraph, no matter how long, on a separate line. Clicking on View --> Summary gives you a word count.

Haven't heard of Libre Office. You said it's a new version of Open Office. The overarching menu looks the same. Same programmers? I thought OO was bought by Oracle? I know it's still free from Oracle, but Oracle has done nothing to update it. Is this what the open-source folks have done since Sun sat on it about five years ago?


Now please, please, please write that book. And then write more of them.

I have to second that! Some of your stories are terrific!

Fazor
2012-Apr-04, 02:39 PM
I've been using Notepad++ (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/), as of late.

I haven't used N++ for writing, but my entire website front-end was built from the ground-up with it. I love that it can recognize what kind of script/language file you're writing and apply the (mostly) correct mark-up to make it easier to read. And it's free!

When I write, I oft just use Window's "Wordpad" without applying any kind of formatting other than line/paragraph breaks. Then, if I have to strip any of the built-in formatting I'll just copy-all/paste into Notepad and then take it from there to wherever it needs to go for formatting. But for me, worrying too much about those details while I'm writing is too much of a distraction. I have to put the words down "on paper" first. I'd prefer to just physically write it on paper, but I'm a very slow writer and very fast typist, so the later proves to be less of a hindrance when trying to keep up with my rambling train of thought.

jokergirl
2012-Apr-04, 03:38 PM
Haven't heard of Libre Office. You said it's a new version of Open Office. The overarching menu looks the same. Same programmers? I thought OO was bought by Oracle? I know it's still free from Oracle, but Oracle has done nothing to update it. Is this what the open-source folks have done since Sun sat on it about five years ago?

Open Office was open source; LibreOffice is the continuation of OpenOffice from that source whereas OO.O was bought up and is no longer open IIRC.

N++ is very good for those who don't want to go the geeky emacs/vi way. :D

HenrikOlsen
2012-Apr-04, 05:46 PM
Open Office seems to have gone the way of almost every other open source project that Oracle bought, it forked and the non-Oracle fork is the one that lives.

For some reason Oracle seem to think that they can make money from buying the trademark without having any idea about how to manage an opensource project so it'll live. Or else they think that by buying the project they can remove it from the market so their own product can "win", without realizing that if people like the product enough, the project will just fork and stay a vital competitor under a different name.

DonM435
2012-Apr-05, 07:01 PM
I once sent an article composed in MS Word to a magazine. Turned out the publisher used WordPerfect. They ran my article but all of the italics and boldfacing I had used had disappeared. Now, this flattened my style considerably: that may have had some good points, but this was quite drastic. Also, some text that I had merely hidden instead of deleting came back to life! Nothing embarassing, just sloppy.

Once aware of this, I took care to save my future submissions in WP format and to examine them afterward. (I was flattered that the editor didn't find the need to change anything, but it meant that I had to be more careful.)

Tobin Dax
2012-Apr-07, 12:26 AM
N++ is very good for those who don't want to go the geeky emacs/vi way. :D

I might have to check that out. It's a good program, but I never quite got the hang of emacs.

DoggerDan
2012-Apr-15, 06:42 PM
Open Office was open source; LibreOffice is the continuation of OpenOffice from that source whereas OO.O was bought up and is no longer open IIRC.

N++ is very good for those who don't want to go the geeky emacs/vi way. :D

Thanks! I removed Open Office and replaced it with LibreOffice (http://www.libreoffice.org/)this morning! It's still open. Here's their license: "LibreOffice is licensed under the terms of the LGPLv3 (new contributions are dual-licensed under both LGPLv3+ and MPL). This means you're free to use it for personal and commercial use, you're free to copy it and give copies away, and you're free to modify and redesign the source code, and to create derivative works. For details, please read the licence below and/or visit the licensing FAQ."


Open Office seems to have gone the way of almost every other open source project that Oracle bought, it forked and the non-Oracle fork is the one that lives.

Didn't Oracle sort of inherit it when they bought Sun?


For some reason Oracle seem to think that they can make money from buying the trademark without having any idea about how to manage an opensource project so it'll live. Or else they think that by buying the project they can remove it from the market so their own product can "win", without realizing that if people like the product enough, the project will just fork and stay a vital competitor under a different name.

Perhaps they're simply using it in-house instead of paying $$$$$ to Microsoft. I wonder how many employees have switched to LibreOffice?

swampyankee
2012-Apr-15, 07:09 PM
I think you have it backwards 'caus when I think of BigDon, I picture him as the one growling the line "Make my day, punk!"

I'm about a foot shorter, have way less than half the muscle mass, and the fighting skills of an average eight-year old. He wouldn't have to growl.

HenrikOlsen
2012-Apr-15, 08:14 PM
Perhaps they're simply using it in-house instead of paying $$$$$ to Microsoft.
They could have done that without buying the trademark.:)

I wonder how many employees have switched to LibreOffice?
I wouldn't be the least surprised if I was to hear it's none.

Solfe
2012-Apr-16, 01:38 AM
I worked at retailer that used Open Office and upgrade to Libre because office was too expensive. I wonder what they will do when XP loses all of its utility for them? I suspect they will go all Linux, because they are already running Linux machines.

Personally, in reading this thread, I was very surprised that Open Office and Libre Office were two completely different products. I had assumed they were the exact same thing with a version number equalling a re-branding. I had no idea that they were different branches.

On another note, I purchased the full version of MS Office last week to do a comparison MS Office vs. Open and Libre office on my blog. (No don't look, I haven't done it yet.) I am very unenthusiastic about what MS Office offers at its price point. Very flashy, easy to use for basic functions, but there doesn't seem to be much offered by MS office to be worth the price.

Tobin Dax
2012-Apr-16, 04:44 AM
Solfe, I hope you paid the discounted student price.

Solfe
2012-Apr-16, 11:51 AM
Yes, yes I did.

EDIT - but... I paid to take a couple of classes to learn how to use Word and Excel 2010, so the cost of the student edition is many, many, MANY times less than I paid in tuition and books to learn to use it.