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gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 04:55 AM
The subject of astrology has come up quite a bit on the "Against the Mainstream Thread". A comment by R.A.F. on the subject got me to state my opinon ("there seems to be something to it") and it has snowballed into a couple of long threads.

Apart from the question of whether it works or not, I have noticed that invariably women are much more attracted to astrology then men are. (must be the "men are from mars, women are from venus"-effect).

Most of the posters in the above mentioned threads conclude that astrology is baloney and it does not provide you with anything.

Be that as it may, there is one enormous benefit that a male with a good knowledge of natal chart interpretation has over a male who has none, namely, it is a great way to strike up a conversation with 99% of the women. It has always worked for me. Sometimes at a party, I even take along my Palm Pilot with a nifty astrology chart plotting program. You get swamped with women, crowding around you! 8)

Much more so than talking of superstring theory... :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 05:14 AM
The subject of astrology has come up quite a bit on the "Against the Mainstream Thread". A comment by R.A.F. on the subject got me to state my opinon ("there seems to be something to it") and it has snowballed into a couple of long threads.

Apart from the question of whether it works or not, I have noticed that invariably women are much more attracted to astrology then men are. (must be the "men are from mars, women are from venus"-effect).

Most of the posters in the above mentioned threads conclude that astrology is baloney and it does not provide you with anything.

Be that as it may, there is one enormous benefit that a male with a good knowledge of natal chart interpretation has over a male who has none, namely, it is a great way to strike up a conversation with 99% of the women. It has always worked for me. Sometimes at a party, I even take along my Palm Pilot with a nifty astrology chart plotting program. You get swamped with women, crowding around you! 8)

Much more so than talking of superstring theory... :D

Umm- if I had started in on astrology, my wife would have bolted when we first met. As it was, we each though the other was attractive, but didn't say anything. What started her real attraction for me was that I remembered she'd had a health condition from four months prior, and asked her how she was doing, in addition to keeping her company. It seemed like showing I gave a damn about her counted more than trying to hit on her.

She and I both regularly enjoy watching nature, science, and anthropological documentaries, and have been married (rather happily) for over six years now - and still no astrology in sight.

Addendum: that mind-parachute thing, well, as a correlary:
...if you don't pack it right, it won't deploy when you need it...

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:16 AM
gritmonger,
Let's not take things too seriously... :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 05:18 AM
gritmonger,
Let's not take things too seriously... :D

Not at all- but if I was caught by my wife stating the presumptions you made above, my wife would beat me for being, well, sexist in the extreme. It's that whole respect-for-your-loved-one thing that "works" for me.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:24 AM
gritmonger,
Let's not take things too seriously... :D

Not at all- but if I was caught by my wife stating the presumptions you made above, my wife would beat me for being, well, sexist in the extreme. It's that whole respect-for-your-loved-one thing that "works" for me.

Sexist? You must be kidding... :D
We Europeans have plenty of respect for women, astrology or no astrology...

MrObvious
2004-Sep-16, 05:25 AM
All depends on point of view. I'd rather talk to that 1 woman out of the 100 about astromomy than with 99 women about astrology :wink:

It's all about quality not quantity :D

Call it inbuilt filtering for both sides as I'm sure most women don't want to talk astromomy/physics/engineering with me.

You are right though, far more women are interested in astrology than men are, all my ex's were. Maybe that's why they are ex's. So going on that track record I suppose I should be avoiding women who follow astrology and wait patiently for the one who doesn't. :D

01101001
2004-Sep-16, 05:28 AM
Be that as it may, there is one enormous benefit that a male with a good knowledge of natal chart interpretation has over a male who has none, namely, it is a great way to strike up a conversation with 99% of the women. It has always worked for me.
You want to meet people attracted to astrology?

Shudder.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:30 AM
All depends on point of view. I'd rather talk to that 1 woman out of the 100 about astromomy than with 99 women about astrology :wink:

It's all about quality not quantity :D



It is all a matter of taste obviously. You can say what you want, but women are different in how they think. Lots more intuition I find. I do not consider being able to talk about the multiple universes a filter for choosing a partner... :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:32 AM
Be that as it may, there is one enormous benefit that a male with a good knowledge of natal chart interpretation has over a male who has none, namely, it is a great way to strike up a conversation with 99% of the women. It has always worked for me.
You want to meet people attracted to astrology?

Shudder.

You got it wrong. It is a good ice-breaker... entertaining and easy conversation. More so than p-brane theories... :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:34 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor... :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 05:37 AM
Sexist? You must be kidding... :D
We Europeans have plenty of respect for women, astrology or no astrology...

Since when did heritage exempt anyone from phrases like these:

Be that as it may, there is one enormous benefit that a male with a good knowledge of natal chart interpretation has over a male who has none, namely, it is a great way to strike up a conversation with 99% of the women.
...from being sexist?

That's a broad generalization regarding women, how they think, and what attracts them. Hmm. That's hitting it out of the park, really.

MrObvious
2004-Sep-16, 05:38 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor...


Personaly I thought my whole post was a bit of a joke.... :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 05:39 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor...


Personaly I thought my whole post was a bit of a joke.... :D

Well, I can tell you I'm not sorry for having waited until I found a woman with a skeptical eye...

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:43 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor...


Personaly I thought my whole post was a bit of a joke.... :D

You got it right! Which can be expected from your name! :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:44 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor...


Personaly I thought my whole post was a bit of a joke.... :D

Well, I can tell you I'm not sorry for having waited until I found a woman with a skeptical eye...

Obviously even in this forum every word is taken dead seriously... :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 05:46 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor...


Personaly I thought my whole post was a bit of a joke.... :D

Well, I can tell you I'm not sorry for having waited until I found a woman with a skeptical eye...

Obviously even in this forum every word is taken dead seriously... :D

I'm not sure- maybe astrology makes people believe they can make broad generalizations freely without consequence.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 05:59 AM
Loosen up guys. Show some sense of humor...


Personaly I thought my whole post was a bit of a joke.... :D

Well, I can tell you I'm not sorry for having waited until I found a woman with a skeptical eye...

Obviously even in this forum every word is taken dead seriously... :D

I'm not sure- maybe astrology makes people believe they can make broad generalizations freely without consequence.

The average woman is definitely more liable to believe in astrology then the average man. This is a fact. :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 06:09 AM
The average woman is definitely more liable to believe in astrology then the average man. This is a fact. :D

I suppose I rest my case then.

Caring a little more to delve into this question, I came across this:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=359
An actual poll.

Belief in astrology swimming at about 36% in women. Not quite 99%.
Also, it appears that fewer men - on average - believe in astrology, at 25%. So you are partly correct.

Seems that the "average woman" is more likely to believe in miracles, Heaven, ghosts, the Devil, and Hell than astrology, and we all know what hits those are at parties.

milli360
2004-Sep-16, 09:58 AM
gzhpcu:
Obviously even in this forum every word is taken dead seriously... :D
dude, you are seriously passive-aggressive... :)

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 10:15 AM
gzhpcu:
Obviously even in this forum every word is taken dead seriously... :D
dude, you are seriously passive-aggressive... :)

Who me? :D

milli360
2004-Sep-16, 10:20 AM
you must be a Cancer, right? :)

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 10:58 AM
you must be a Cancer, right? :)

Nope, waaay off. Virgo with Leo ascendent... 8)

milli360
2004-Sep-16, 11:04 AM
that was actually my first guess, but I thought the other was funnier

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 01:58 PM
you must be a Cancer, right? :)

Nope, waaay off. Virgo with Leo ascendent... 8)

Well I guess that's why we were talking at cross purposes:
Hi. Pat Kelley: human being.

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-16, 02:11 PM
Wow. I'm only posting in this thread because, well, I'm fascinated by the idea that someone can make such a sexist statement, then deny it, and then think everyone is being too serious. :roll:

gritmonger - You're wife is one smart woman. :D

Normandy6644
2004-Sep-16, 02:58 PM
I'll think I'll hold out for the woman who wants to talk about string theory. :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 03:03 PM
gritmonger - You're wife is one smart woman. :D

I certainly think so - her judgement in choosing me, however, is a different question entirely... :)

mike alexander
2004-Sep-16, 03:36 PM
Can someone define 'feminine intuition'?

Besides being the selective recall of correct guesses?

Paul Beardsley
2004-Sep-16, 03:47 PM
Im guessing that gzhpcu is going to parties for a good time, and isnt yet looking for a serious relationship. The women he meets at these parties are also looking for a good time. And from the sound of it, everyone is having a good time.

His assumption that a lot of women are enthusiastic about astrology is based on his observation that a lot of women are enthusiastic about astrology at least the ones he meets at that sort of party, and theyre the ones hes talking about, hence the 99% statement which is obviously not meant seriously. I do not think he is suggesting that intelligent women are vanishingly rare. Im also guessing that hes not some sort of Svengali who uses a feigned interest in astrology to take advantage of foolish women; he is simply rejoicing in the fact that he has found a way of breaking the ice at parties.

If and when gzhpcu decides he wants to settle down, he may well want to spend his time with an intelligent woman. In which case, I expect hell find a way of meeting the right one. It might even be that some of the women who enthuse about astrology are intelligent in other ways, or perhaps they too are using the astrology thing as a means of breaking the ice.

For the record, my own wife is wonderfully intelligent.

Paul Beardsley
2004-Sep-16, 03:53 PM
Can someone define 'feminine intuition'?

Besides being the selective recall of correct guesses?

Ooh, provocative!

I'm glad I'm not the one who said it; I'm glad I'm the one who can just chuckle at it. :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 04:55 PM
Paul,
You got it right on most counts.

As can be evidenced in other threads, I am personally convinced there is someting to astrology, and am pleased with the results I get (but it was a tortuous path getting there, discarding lots of concepts...).

I do not see "intelligent" woman and astrology as contradictory. I am not exactly dumb, and I have a positive opinion of Jung-based psychological astrology.

I am not particularly looking for an intelligent woman to speak of superstring theory with. There are plenty of intelligent women that can speak of history, art, culture, music, psychology, etc. all topics which are just as interesting.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-16, 06:21 PM
A comment by R.A.F. on the subject got me to state my opinon ("there seems to be something to it") and it has snowballed into a couple of long threads.

At this time, I would like to personally apologize to everyone on this board


...women are much more attracted to astrology then men are.

You're right. Beside the fact of "if" it's true or not...consider where you're posting! I would say that 99+ percent of the ladies here might feel a "tad" insulted.

Quoting my wife..."I'm not even on the board, and I'm insulted."

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 07:07 PM
Paul,
You got it right on most counts.

As can be evidenced in other threads, I am personally convinced there is someting to astrology, and am pleased with the results I get (but it was a tortuous path getting there, discarding lots of concepts...).

I do not see "intelligent" woman and astrology as contradictory. I am not exactly dumb, and I have a positive opinion of Jung-based psychological astrology.


That's funny. The poll that establishes the relationship does speak of higher education indicating less likelihood of belief in astrology; the inference is indeed there.

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 07:09 PM
A comment by R.A.F. on the subject got me to state my opinon ("there seems to be something to it") and it has snowballed into a couple of long threads.

At this time, I would like to personally apologize to everyone on this board


...women are much more attracted to astrology then men are.

You're right. Beside the fact of "if" it's true or not...consider where you're posting! I would say that 99+ percent of the ladies here might feel a "tad" insulted.

Quoting my wife..."I'm not even on the board, and I'm insulted."

Bingo. Same here. Actually, my wife's opinion was more "What the hell? Let me on that board!"

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 07:12 PM
Im guessing that gzhpcu is going to parties for a good time, and isnt yet looking for a serious relationship. The women he meets at these parties are also looking for a good time. And from the sound of it, everyone is having a good time.


Except for the women members of the board in which he is posting his anectdotes who have been painted with as broad a brush as it gets.


His assumption that a lot of women are enthusiastic about astrology is based on his observation that a lot of women are enthusiastic about astrology at least the ones he meets at that sort of party, and theyre the ones hes talking about, hence the 99% statement which is obviously not meant seriously. I do not think he is suggesting that intelligent women are vanishingly rare. Im also guessing that hes not some sort of Svengali who uses a feigned interest in astrology to take advantage of foolish women; he is simply rejoicing in the fact that he has found a way of breaking the ice at parties.


Meant as humor? Well, he didn't back down or restate his assertion as "99% is a bit high" at any point. I'm lead to believe he was serious, and, contrary to your belief, I can't find any evidence of his humor regarding astrology in this thread or on other threads.




If and when gzhpcu decides he wants to settle down, he may well want to spend his time with an intelligent woman. In which case, I expect hell find a way of meeting the right one. It might even be that some of the women who enthuse about astrology are intelligent in other ways, or perhaps they too are using the astrology thing as a means of breaking the ice.

For the record, my own wife is wonderfully intelligent.

Have you shown her the quote?

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-16, 07:52 PM
Oh boy, sure 99% is ridiculously high. Being relatively new to the BABB community, i thought at least here I could be flip, but apparently not... business as usual... I made this post to pull legs for the threads on the other board... apparently not such a good idea... :D

If any females out there felt insulted by this thread, I offer my apologies and retract all remarks... :oops:

dvb
2004-Sep-16, 07:55 PM
gzhpcu, you could have worded things better. I agree that saying 99% of women believe or hold an interest in astrology is a bit of an exageration. Had you provided statistics as gritmonger did, you may not have been attacked over your ideas so quickly.

Here's a useless tidbit. The average woman is smarter than the average man, however the top percentage of smart people are men.

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-16, 08:11 PM
Here's a useless tidbit. The average woman is smarter than the average man, however the top percentage of smart people are men.

What is your point?

dvb
2004-Sep-16, 08:14 PM
Here's a useless tidbit. The average woman is smarter than the average man, however the top percentage of smart people are men.

What is your point?

No point. As I said, it was a useless tidbit. :)

Paul Beardsley
2004-Sep-16, 08:45 PM
Have you shown her the quote?

Yes. She replied, "He obviously hasn't met the women I mix with," then added, "sounds like he's being tongue in cheek."

A couple of observations:

1. I am surprised to see an astrology-believer on this board.

2. I'm curious about the differences in attitude between my wife's water-off-a-duck's-back stance and the anger aroused in others. I've no idea if there's any correlation or not, but here in the UK we are subjected to relentless misandry in the media. Adverts are particularly nasty, with men constantly portrayed as stupid and useless. In one, we are invited to applaud because a young woman has the police arrest a gentle elderly black man. His offence? He has a beard! After well over a decade of this sort of filth, one has a choice of either ignoring it, or being in a constant state of rage.

gritmonger
2004-Sep-16, 08:51 PM
Have you shown her the quote?

Yes. She replied, "He obviously hasn't met the women I mix with," then added, "sounds like he's being tongue in cheek."

A couple of observations:

1. I am surprised to see an astrology-believer on this board.

2. I'm curious about the differences in attitude between my wife's water-off-a-duck's-back stance and the anger aroused in others. I've no idea if there's any correlation or not, but here in the UK we are subjected to relentless misandry in the media. Adverts are particularly nasty, with men constantly portrayed as stupid and useless. In one, we are invited to applaud because a young woman has the police arrest a gentle elderly black man. His offence? He has a beard! After well over a decade of this sort of filth, one has a choice of either ignoring it, or being in a constant state of rage.

Well, here in Texas unfortunately the reverse is still very much in force, to the extent that my wife was once told by a co-worker in all seriousness that "...the only place for a woman to work is under a man." No lie. Additionally, when she reported this to their boss, his reply was to tell her to essentially stop behaving so much "like a woman" with complaints and whining. When layoffs were required, my wife was let go because she didn't have a degree at the time, and the co-worker did.

The co-worker was later found to have falsified his credentials (he neither graduated, nor attended the supposed college) and was forced to resign.

As a result she absolutely refuses to work in the medical field ever again.

N C More
2004-Sep-16, 10:27 PM
Well, I'm a woman and I think astrology is pure hokum!

I'm at the point in my life where I really don't care if people want to think that I'm stupid just because I'm a woman. I've been married to an engineer for 24 years but I'm the one who has managed our finances. Our home is paid for, we can send all of our kids to college and we will still be all set to retire at 60. Anyone is free to think whatever they choose about women and/or men but be advised that the smart/stupid issue appears (in my experience) to have no gender specific parameters.

Candy
2004-Sep-16, 11:47 PM
Why is it always a man that asks me what my sign is? :roll:

By the way, my answer is always stop! :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-17, 02:44 AM
I seem to have stirred up a wasp's nest here, for reasons I do not quite really fathom. Guess I do not quite get it, because I am really the last person whom I consider to be sexist.

I never made any distinction at work between men and women. Only interested in performance. I did not really like being labeled a sexist on this thread, because working in a conservative, heavily-male-oriented environment (Swiss banking edp), I was one of the few to encourage and promote women in my group. I was even criticized for giving a chance to a particularly sharp and eager young woman with no academic title over a complacent male worker with an academic title for a particular project. She delivered and my choice was justified. I did it purely based on judging who was best for a particular job. I had an equal number of women and men working in my group, and after some initial resentment from the males, all worked smoothly, and we had a great team.

I know that being Latin I am sometimes prone to exaggeration. I repeat, I thought this would be a funny thread, but apparently it struck the wrong chord... :oops:


edited for typo

Candy
2004-Sep-17, 02:52 AM
gzhpcu, I don't think you are sexist. You were just making an observation that is more likely true than false for the general public. Now, for the BABBers, that's another story. :wink:

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-17, 03:40 AM
gzhpcu - I wouldn't say you are sexist, only that some of those comments were.

Written humor is the hardest kind to achieve, especially when it's dry and not obvious. Don't sweat it. We're not gonna hold it against you. 8)

Doe, John
2004-Sep-17, 03:44 AM
gzhpcu - I wouldn't say you are sexist, only that some of those comments were.

Written humor is the hardest kind to achieve, especially when it's dry and not obvious. Don't sweat it. We're not gonna hold it against you. 8)

[dry,not obvious, humor] If I said you had a beautiful body would you hold it against me? (apologies to parrothead) [/dry, not obvious, humor]
:oops:

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-17, 04:04 AM
gzhpcu - I wouldn't say you are sexist, only that some of those comments were.

Written humor is the hardest kind to achieve, especially when it's dry and not obvious. Don't sweat it. We're not gonna hold it against you. 8)

[dry,not obvious, humor] If I said you had a beautiful body would you hold it against me? (apologies to parrothead) [/dry, not obvious, humor]
:oops:

groan #-o

:)

MrObvious
2004-Sep-17, 04:17 AM
I know that being Latin I am sometimes prone to exaggeration. I repeat, I thought this would be a funny thread, but apparently it struck the wrong chord...


As the saying goes, it's not what you say but how you say it.
Unfortunately "how" is not easy to transfer to print. One misplaced comma can make a sentence mean the exact opposite to what was intended etc.
I'm sure everyone has at one time or another been mis interpreted. If only I had a dollar for every time..........

Thankfully in real life it's a rare occurance. Reading between the words in your posts I'd say you are in a similar situation and I feel better already knowing I'm not the only one. 8)

paulie jay
2004-Sep-17, 05:04 AM
I can only make this statement based on my experience of people. I have found that more females that I've known take astrology more seriously than males that I've known. But I've seen a fairly equal share of them checking their horoscopes in magazines.

Normandy6644
2004-Sep-17, 05:10 AM
I can only make this statement based on my experience of people. I have found that more females that I've known take astrology more seriously than males that I've known. But I've seen a fairly equal share of them checking their horoscopes in magazines.

Checking is probably different from believing though. Hell, I'll check mine every once and awhile just so I can see that my day will be "filled with surprises" or something really mundane, that way when something cool happens, I'm surprised! :D Maybe there's something to this astrology.... 8-[ Half the time that's what people think I'm studying anyway. #-o

paulie jay
2004-Sep-17, 05:37 AM
:lol:
It was my attempt at honesty without sexism 8-[

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-17, 01:20 PM
I made this post to pull legs for the threads on the other board... apparently not such a good idea... :D

It's going to be very hard to take you seriously from now on...when I read your posts, I'll be thinking...Is he "pulling my leg", or not. That's just about the worst thing that can happen to a person posting on a science board.

Spacewriter
2004-Sep-17, 01:27 PM
Can someone define 'feminine intuition'?

Besides being the selective recall of correct guesses?

I dunno. In men it's called "gut feeling." Care to explain that?

Besides being the selective recall of correct guesses?

Spacewriter
2004-Sep-17, 01:29 PM
Why is it always a man that asks me what my sign is? :roll:

By the way, my answer is always stop! :D

My answer is always, "Feces."

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-17, 02:06 PM
I made this post to pull legs for the threads on the other board... apparently not such a good idea... :D

It's going to be very hard to take you seriously from now on...when I read your posts, I'll be thinking...Is he "pulling my leg", or not. That's just about the worst thing that can happen to a person posting on a science board.

Don't be such a nitpicker R.A.F. On the "Against the Mainstream" board I am not pulling anybody's leg. Here I thought it was allowed. I won't anymore. Lesson learned... Sheeesh!

Kebsis
2004-Sep-17, 02:26 PM
The average woman is definitely more liable to believe in astrology then the average man. This is a fact. :D

I suppose I rest my case then.

Caring a little more to delve into this question, I came across this:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=359
An actual poll.

Belief in astrology swimming at about 36% in women. Not quite 99%.
Also, it appears that fewer men - on average - believe in astrology, at 25%. So you are partly correct.

Seems that the "average woman" is more likely to believe in miracles, Heaven, ghosts, the Devil, and Hell than astrology, and we all know what hits those are at parties.

Numerous polls have shown that women are somewhat more likely to be taken in by various forms of pseudoscience then men. This doesn't mean men arent taken in by it. But I feel that this is a result of women being more emotional, or at least more emotionally open, then men are. Since pseudosciences are generally emotionally driven arguements, it would seem understandable why it would appeal to women more then men.

Gmann
2004-Sep-17, 02:30 PM
Dogpile on Gzhpcu...dogpile on gzhpcu! This is Babbling folks, it's supposed to be light hearted banter. A place to let your hair down, crack open a tall cold frosty one, and shoot the breeze. As another of our esteemed brethren says: "Lighten up, this is a stellar board."

Spacewriter
2004-Sep-17, 02:38 PM
The average woman is definitely more liable to believe in astrology then the average man. This is a fact. :D

I suppose I rest my case then.

Caring a little more to delve into this question, I came across this:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=359
An actual poll.

Belief in astrology swimming at about 36% in women. Not quite 99%.
Also, it appears that fewer men - on average - believe in astrology, at 25%. So you are partly correct.

Seems that the "average woman" is more likely to believe in miracles, Heaven, ghosts, the Devil, and Hell than astrology, and we all know what hits those are at parties.

Numerous polls have shown that women are somewhat more likely to be taken in by various forms of pseudoscience then men. This doesn't mean men arent taken in by it. But I feel that this is a result of women being more emotional, or at least more emotionally open, then men are. Since pseudosciences are generally emotionally driven arguements, it would seem understandable why it would appeal to women more then men.

More generalization... i guess women can stand here in front of you and say calmly all day that we're not all alike, but it doesn't seem to sink in...

and, as we know, polls and statistics can be made to say just about anything you want them to say.

Show us stats, the polls, and the questions that drew these conclusions and then we can talk.

There's nothing light-hearted about generalizing an entire gender based on some polls and stats that may or may not be llegit.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-17, 02:56 PM
There's nothing light-hearted about generalizing an entire gender based on some polls and stats that may or may not be llegit.

I totally agree! Gzhpcu's "leg pull" just wasn't funny...and I see from his last post that he still doesn't understand that.

Gmann...Gzhpcu pretty much invited the "dogpile" on himself when he posted as he did.

Kebsis
2004-Sep-17, 03:05 PM
The average woman is definitely more liable to believe in astrology then the average man. This is a fact. :D

I suppose I rest my case then.

Caring a little more to delve into this question, I came across this:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=359
An actual poll.

Belief in astrology swimming at about 36% in women. Not quite 99%.
Also, it appears that fewer men - on average - believe in astrology, at 25%. So you are partly correct.

Seems that the "average woman" is more likely to believe in miracles, Heaven, ghosts, the Devil, and Hell than astrology, and we all know what hits those are at parties.

Numerous polls have shown that women are somewhat more likely to be taken in by various forms of pseudoscience then men. This doesn't mean men arent taken in by it. But I feel that this is a result of women being more emotional, or at least more emotionally open, then men are. Since pseudosciences are generally emotionally driven arguements, it would seem understandable why it would appeal to women more then men.

More generalization... i guess women can stand here in front of you and say calmly all day that we're not all alike, but it doesn't seem to sink in...

and, as we know, polls and statistics can be made to say just about anything you want them to say.

Show us stats, the polls, and the questions that drew these conclusions and then we can talk.

There's nothing light-hearted about generalizing an entire gender based on some polls and stats that may or may not be llegit.

And when did I say all women were alike.

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-17, 03:15 PM
My wife look at her horoscope but I never, ever look at mine.

Women do tend to be more in tune with that kind of thing..for eg, women tend to go to religious places more than men, and are more inclined to oppose wars on philosophical grounds than men.

The only possible connection Horscopes might have with science is the fact that if you are born in the dead of winter, in all the cold..a Capricorn perhaps..then you might have a different approach to life than if you were born in the height of summer..a Leo.

Something about childhood memories of coldness and snow, or leaves and sunshine.

I am a Leo.

My wife is a Capricorn.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-17, 05:21 PM
There's nothing light-hearted about generalizing an entire gender based on some polls and stats that may or may not be llegit.

I totally agree! Gzhpcu's "leg pull" just wasn't funny...and I see from his last post that he still doesn't understand that.

Gmann...Gzhpcu pretty much invited the "dogpile" on himself when he posted as he did.

R.A.F. let's just come to a gentleman's agreement: I will never understand you, and vice versa... :D

gritmonger
2004-Sep-17, 06:20 PM
My wife look at her horoscope but I never, ever look at mine.

Women do tend to be more in tune with that kind of thing..for eg, women tend to go to religious places more than men, and are more inclined to oppose wars on philosophical grounds than men.

The only possible connection Horscopes might have with science is the fact that if you are born in the dead of winter, in all the cold..a Capricorn perhaps..then you might have a different approach to life than if you were born in the height of summer..a Leo.

Something about childhood memories of coldness and snow, or leaves and sunshine.

I am a Leo.

My wife is a Capricorn.

So are Australian horoscopes opposite, and folks at the equator all Leo?

gritmonger
2004-Sep-17, 06:27 PM
Can someone define 'feminine intuition'?

Besides being the selective recall of correct guesses?

I dunno. In men it's called "gut feeling." Care to explain that?

Besides being the selective recall of correct guesses?

Personally, most of these that pan out for me are about people and what their personality is in reality, rather than what they put on for public consumption. I don't get "gut feelings" about events or aught much else except weather.

And those, I'm pretty sure, derive from subtle hints that I just don't consciously notice outright, but that my subconscious picks up and stores away in a bin until enough stuff piles up for it to throw back an instinctive response. The old "I'm not sure why, but trust me!" Sort of long-term pattern recognition without conscious thought.

Irishman
2004-Sep-17, 07:03 PM
Why is it always a man that asks me what my sign is? :roll:

You mean you're not hit on by lesbians? And that's a problem for you? ;)

Maybe they assume all women are in to astrology, so they are using it to break the ice. :D

Don't ask me - I don't know how to hit on women. It all seems so fake and cheesy, I can't believe it ever works, and I'd feel like an idiot saying something like that seriously.

So why is it sexist for gzhpcu to make an exaggerated statement about an observation of tendencies? I will say my personal experience is that more women I know are in to astrology, new age, paganism, etc. than men I know. My brother (a New Age psychic reverend) has observed the same thing from within his movement. That's by no means a statement that 99% of women are in to astrology, or that women are dumber than men on average. However, it recognizes a trend.

A similar comment - I'm frequently told a great place to meet women is church. The only problem is, I'm an atheist.


The only possible connection Horscopes might have with science is the fact that if you are born in the dead of winter, in all the cold..a Capricorn perhaps..then you might have a different approach to life than if you were born in the height of summer..a Leo.

Something about childhood memories of coldness and snow, or leaves and sunshine.

Wow, you have memories of your birth? You're pretty special. :roll: ;)

I would think any affects from time of year of birth would largely be sociological. For instance, what stage of development are you in relation to the other students when you enter school. Are you at the oldest or youngest - further along or trailing behind? And even that's pretty iffy.

Candy
2004-Sep-17, 07:45 PM
Why is it always a man that asks me what my sign is? :roll:

You mean you're not hit on by lesbians? How do I answer this without getting in trouble? Women do, too. From my experience, it's just on a different level.

First, they pretend to be your friend. Second, they feed on your bad experiences with men. Third, they occasionally make inappropriate statements followed with just kidding. Fourth, they use close quarters as a means to accidently brush up against you in an uncomfortable way. Fifth, when I refuse their advances, they make a feable attempt to make me jealous by 'flaunting their new friend' at a shared event.

It really is most disturbing, now that I think about it. It sure feeds the community gossip, though. 8-[

Tranquility
2004-Sep-17, 07:50 PM
Why is it always a man that asks me what my sign is? :roll:

By the way, my answer is always stop! :D

My answer is always, "Feces."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-17, 09:50 PM
My wife look at her horoscope but I never, ever look at mine.

Women do tend to be more in tune with that kind of thing..for eg, women tend to go to religious places more than men, and are more inclined to oppose wars on philosophical grounds than men.

The only possible connection Horscopes might have with science is the fact that if you are born in the dead of winter, in all the cold..a Capricorn perhaps..then you might have a different approach to life than if you were born in the height of summer..a Leo.

Something about childhood memories of coldness and snow, or leaves and sunshine.

I am a Leo.

My wife is a Capricorn.

So are Australian horoscopes opposite, and folks at the equator all Leo?

Who cares about Australia?

paulie jay
2004-Sep-18, 12:19 AM
Certainly none of your sportsmen!

sarongsong
2004-Sep-19, 03:53 AM
Seems to me astrology was the precursor to astronomy. With none of the distractions of 'modern' life, particularly light pollution, everyone's night-sky must have been a significant source of interest and curiousity. As far as responding to a "What's your sign?" inquisitor with one's (implied) Sun sign, one might answer, "Take your pick.", as all twelve play a part in one's complete Chart; Moon sign, rising sign, etc., which is satisfyingly unique and complex, and may help explain why women might seem more drawn to it than men. I find it to be a useful tool, like the I Ching, for help resolving/understanding personal dilemnas that defy scientific analysis, by their very nature. July 4, 1776 was pre-determined, BTW, to be the USA's birthday by its founders.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 04:07 AM
Seems to me astrology was the precursor to astronomy. With none of the distractions of 'modern' life, particularly light pollution, everyone's night-sky must have been a significant source of interest and curiousity. As far as responding to a "What's your sign?" inquisitor with one's (implied) Sun sign, one might answer, "Take your pick.", as all twelve play a part in one's complete Chart; Moon sign, rising sign, etc., which is satisfyingly unique and complex, and may help explain why women might seem more drawn to it than men. I find it to be a useful tool, like the I Ching, for help resolving/understanding personal dilemnas that defy scientific analysis, by their very nature. July 4, 1776 was pre-determined, BTW, to be the USA's birthday by its founders.

In spite of the flip thread I initiated here (partially out of frustration), the other discussions I had in Against the Mainstream were serious. I see that you have a similar opinion about astrology as I do. :D

sarongsong
2004-Sep-19, 06:39 AM
Yep---it's hard to rollerskate in a buffalo herd... 8)

Candy
2004-Sep-19, 08:10 AM
Seems to me astrology was the precursor to astronomy. That's what I have been saying from the get-go, but no bite. I really wish gzhpcu would post something from the original concept of astrology, as opposed to, modern astrology. That might catch the eye of fellow BABBers. As far as I have seen, gzhpcu doesn't even get to the root of astrology. Yes, gzhpcu, you've touched on it, but you still don't have the right path. Once BABBers understand the 'birth' of astrology, then they might welcome modern astrology. Why you, gzhpcu, continue you do it the hard way, I don't know. :o

gzhpcu, you are a good asset to the BABB. You could be a good teacher, too. 8-[

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 09:47 AM
Seems to me astrology was the precursor to astronomy. That's what I have been saying from the get-go, but no bite. I really wish gzhpcu would post something from the original concept of astrology, as opposed to, modern astrology. That might catch the eye of fellow BABBers. As far as I have seen, gzhpcu doesn't even get to the root of astrology. Yes, gzhpcu, you've touched on it, but you still don't have the right path. Once BABBers understand the 'birth' of astrology, then they might welcome modern astrology. Why you, gzhpcu, continue you do it the hard way, I don't know. :o

gzhpcu, you are a good asset to the BABB. You could be a good teacher, too. 8-[

Candy,
Well, you see as far as I can make out the type of modern astrology I am interested in does not have that much in common with the original concept of astrology. It is not that I am being stubborn, but I have come to the point where I am not really interested in knowing "why". I have confirmed from my own personal experiences with the methodolgy that "there seems to be something to it". I find it aids interpersonal contacts, as it is a basis for analyzing one's own shortcomings and trying to see where the other person is coming from.

Thanks for your kind words, especially since I have often felt I am not particularly welcome by some persons when I try to defend unorthodox positions, as is evidenced in this thread, for example.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-19, 12:47 PM
Seems to me astrology was the precursor to astronomy.


Once BABBers understand the 'birth' of astrology, then they might welcome modern astrology.

Astrology started out as the best "science" available to study the heavens. Very respected astronomers were also astrologers...well, a fella had to make a living. :)

BUT, there came the time when these 2 diverged into totally separate ways of understanding the universe.

Astronomy, uses experiment and observation to study "heavenly bodies" to determine what there composition is, why they behave in the way they do, and so on...while astrology looks at these same "heavenly bodies" and (without any evidence) states that the position/location of them somehow determines the characteristics/behavior of people.

Astronomy endeavours to describe reality...astrology makes vague predictions. The 2 couldn't BE more different.

Candy, I'm sorry but I don't understand how knowing the origins of astrology would make one "welcome" modern astrology. Fact of the matter is that I think that the "case can be made" that when astrology was "new", it was a good science. The astrologers observed the sky...and observation is part of science. But the conclusions that were reached were in error. As knowledge has increased since that time, it's readily appearent that there is no place for astrology in the modern world.


...I have often felt I am not particularly welcome by some persons when I try to defend unorthodox positions...

This is a science board. Astrology is not science. Everyone is welcome here as long as they behave politely. It's really not our fault that you've chosen to defend something that can't possibly be defended.

N C More
2004-Sep-19, 01:25 PM
R.A.F. is correct when he says that astrology is not a science. Naturally, on a bulletin board that's very purpose is to de-bunk psuedo-science, this subject just isn't going to be "warmly embraced" by most folks...certainly this should be obvious?

However, I do concede that there is a place for astrology in the realm of entertainment, as long as people are told the truth about what they are paying for.

BTW, gzhpcu has said that he notices women being somehow "more attracted" to astrology. Keep in mind that women very often want to meet and engage in conversation with men...and will use any opportunity to do so. I heard a country song recently about this very subject (maybe someone can identify the artist for me) the lady sings, "yes, girls lie too". Perhaps the motive behind these ladies "interest in astrology" would be more correctly defined as "interested in getting a date"?

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-19, 02:46 PM
I heard a country song recently about this very subject (maybe someone can identify the artist for me) the lady sings, "yes, girls lie too". Perhaps the motive behind these ladies "interest in astrology" would be more correctly defined as "interested in getting a date"?

"Girls Lie Too" Terri Clark

Great song! :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 03:45 PM
R.A.F.,
So you consider alluding to dogpiles as being polite? [-X

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-19, 04:16 PM
Gmann posted "dogpile on Gzhpcu...dogpile on Gzhpcu". In response I simply stated that you "brought it on yourself".

That's not impolite, that's just the facts.

N C More
2004-Sep-19, 04:35 PM
"Girls Lie Too" Terri Clark

Great song! :D

OMG! My daughter just had me watch the music video that goes with this song....It's hysterical! Tears of laughter were literally running down my face when Wayne Newton showed up!

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 04:38 PM
Gmann posted "dogpile on Gzhpcu...dogpile on Gzhpcu". In response I simply stated that you "brought it on yourself".

That's not impolite, that's just the facts.

:o :o
Rude is the word for it. From now on, to avoid unpleasantery, I will no longer respond to any of your posts.

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-19, 04:59 PM
"Girls Lie Too" Terri Clark

Great song! :D

OMG! My daughter just had me watch the music video that goes with this song....It's hysterical! Tears of laughter were literally running down my face when Wayne Newton showed up!

I agree. The fella dressed up as Johnny Depp was also the director of the video. I laugh every time I see it. :lol:

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-19, 05:01 PM
Gmann posted "dogpile on Gzhpcu...dogpile on Gzhpcu". In response I simply stated that you "brought it on yourself".

That's not impolite, that's just the facts.

:o :o
Rude is the word for it. From now on, to avoid unpleasantery, I will no longer respond to any of your posts.

Do you know what dogpile means? As it is, it looks like you're taking insult where none exists.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 05:14 PM
Gmann posted "dogpile on Gzhpcu...dogpile on Gzhpcu". In response I simply stated that you "brought it on yourself".

That's not impolite, that's just the facts.

:o :o
Rude is the word for it. From now on, to avoid unpleasantery, I will no longer respond to any of your posts.

Do you know what dogpile means? As it is, it looks like you're taking insult where none exists.

I read dogpile = dogfeces.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-19, 05:24 PM
I read dogpile = dogfeces.

A dogpile is when a group of people "gang up" and attack one person...it has nothing to do with excretement.

Hey...your not "pulling our legs" again, are you??

chiaroscuro25
2004-Sep-19, 05:25 PM
I read dogpile = dogfeces.Incorrect. A dogpile is when a bunch of people physically jump on one person, like sometimes happens after a tackle in American Football (or like the Agent Smiths on Neo in the Matrix Reloaded). Extended metaphorically, "dogpile on somebody" just means everyone is ganging up somebody (or it's a call for everyone to gang up on somebody). In this sense, it's almost always meant humorously.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 05:27 PM
I read dogpile = dogfeces.Incorrect. A dogpile is when a bunch of people physically jump on one person, like sometimes happens after a tackle in American Football (or like the Agent Smiths on Neo in the Matrix Reloaded). Extended metaphorically, "dogpile on somebody" just means everyone is ganging up somebody.
Oh yeah:
Look at this link:
dogpile (http://www.dogpilepatrol.com/)

chiaroscuro25
2004-Sep-19, 05:37 PM
Oh yeah: Look at this link:dogpile (http://www.dogpilepatrol.com/)Oh yeah, well look at this link:dictionary.com's dogpile (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=67&q=dogpile). Anyway, it's a bit of slang that most people here probably knew, but you didn't. Now you know.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-19, 05:38 PM
It's really not our fault that you've chosen to defend something that can't possibly be defended.

Gzhpcu...this seems to apply to a lot of your posts.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 05:54 PM
It's really not our fault that you've chosen to defend something that can't possibly be defended.

Gzhpcu...this seems to apply to a lot of your posts.

Another uncalled for remark.
I accept differences in opinion. I do not accept bully tactics.

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-19, 05:57 PM
It's really not our fault that you've chosen to defend something that can't possibly be defended.

Gzhpcu...this seems to apply to a lot of your posts.

Another uncalled for remark.
I accept differences in opinion. I do not accept bully tactics.

You started this thread, and insulted a lot of people with remarks that came across as sexist. You explained yourself, and the anger stopped.

Now, you seem to be looking for martyrdom with imagined insults and accusing R.A.F. of bully tactics.

I don't always agree with R.A.F., but he's not a bully. He simply calls it like he sees it.

And in case you didn't get his last comment, it was meant to be applied to your insistence that dogpile meant something other than what it means here in the U.S.

We told you what it meant, so to insist on attributing another meaning to it, and then being insulted is ridiculous.

N C More
2004-Sep-19, 06:27 PM
I don't always agree with R.A.F., but he's not a bully. He simply calls it like he sees it.

And in case you didn't get his last comment, it was meant to be applied to your insistence that dogpile meant something other than what it means here in the U.S.

We told you what it meant, so to insist on attributing another meaning to it, and then being insulted is ridiculous.

Hmmm...this reminds of the discussion around the term "woo woo". If I recall didn't someone wanted that to have a different meaning as well?

Anyway, the bottom line is that there is no scientific basis for astrology. This bulletin board is part of the "Bad Astronomy" website which routinely de-bunks such things as astronomy, martian pyramids, moon landing hoaxes etc. By posting in support of such beliefs one encourages "puppy piling". In other words the reaction should have been expected. Example, if an atheist goes into church and voices his opinion then the reaction that he will receive should be expected. So, I think it's fair to say that the reaction here regarding astrology really should have been expected.

Ut
2004-Sep-19, 06:32 PM
I don't always agree with R.A.F., but he's not a bully. He simply calls it like he sees it.

And in case you didn't get his last comment, it was meant to be applied to your insistence that dogpile meant something other than what it means here in the U.S.

We told you what it meant, so to insist on attributing another meaning to it, and then being insulted is ridiculous.

Hmmm...this reminds of the discussion around the term "woo woo". If I recall didn't someone wanted that to have a different meaning as well?

Anyway, the bottom line is that there is no scientific basis for astrology. This bulletin board is part of the "Bad Astronomy" website which routinely de-bunks such things as astronomy, martian pyramids, moon landing hoaxes etc. By posting in support of such beliefs one encourages "puppy piling". In other words the reaction should have been expected. Example, if an atheist goes into church and voices his opinion then the reaction that he will receive should be expected. So, I think it's fair to say that the reaction here regarding astrology really should have been expected.

Yup. It is, after all, one of the topics covered in the BA book, and the website. It's not really any different than saying man has never been to the Moon in the Apollo forum, or that Planet X is going to smash into us any day in the PX forum.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 07:06 PM
To set the record straight: I do not feel a martyr. That is ridiculous. However, when I feel provoked I will react within limits.

I have a view point regarding astrology, simply: "there seems to be something to it". I stand by it. I have agreed that it can not be proven scientifically, but I still maintain "there seems to be something to it". I never said I wanted to convince anybody, nobody agrees - fine with me. But I stated my opinion (and recommended studying the methodology and trying it out - but no takers evidently, also fine with me). I will no longer post any opinions or respond to any posts on astrology.

I have now learned that every single post, even on the forum is taken dead seriously even on the Babbling forum, so I will only post with that view in mind,i.e, only topics regarded as being science. If that is how this website expects people to conform, so be it.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-19, 07:20 PM
If that is how this website expects people to conform, so be it.

"This website" doesn't expect people to "conform"...but it is a science website. When someone posts (regarding astrology) that "there seems to be something to it" then the folks here are going to expect it to be "backed up" using scientific reasoning and evidence.

You've said it yourself...astrology can't be proven scientifically...so why in the world are we discussing it on a scientific website???

Lycus
2004-Sep-19, 07:20 PM
I have now learned that every single post, even on the forum is taken dead seriously even on the Babbling forum, so I will only post with that view in mind,i.e, only topics regarded as being science. If that is how this website expects people to conform, so be it.
I know that you've done your share of taking things seriously that weren't meant as such: the dogpile comment, some of Maksutov's joking in the other astrology thread, the gastrologist joke. Remember that before you indict the rest of the board.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-19, 07:49 PM
I have now learned that every single post, even on the forum is taken dead seriously even on the Babbling forum, so I will only post with that view in mind,i.e, only topics regarded as being science. If that is how this website expects people to conform, so be it.
I know that you've done your share of taking things seriously that weren't meant as such: the dogpile comment, some of Maksutov's joking in the other astrology thread, the gastrologist joke. Remember that before you indict the rest of the board.
This was mostly on the Against the Mainstream board, where being serious is to be expected. I am saying you can apparently not let your hair down on this Babbling board either.

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-19, 08:03 PM
This was mostly on the Against the Mainstream board, where being serious is to be expected. I am saying you can apparently not let your hair down on this Babbling board either.

If your idea of letting your hair down is making unfounded pronouncements that you refuse to back up with science, then you're right, you can't let your hair down anywhere on this board.

You slammed an entire gender, and it was only after we got upset that you said you were kidding.

If I started a thread, and I said, "Most black people are..." and followed it up with some comment about how they aren't scientific, people would jump all over me as well, and rightly so. Saying I was kidding would not make it okay.

I'm beginning to think that you are being intentionally obtuse.

Candy
2004-Sep-19, 08:27 PM
Once BABBers understand the 'birth' of astrology, then they might welcome modern astrology.

Astrology started out as the best "science" available to study the heavens. Very respected astronomers were also astrologers...well, a fella had to make a living. :)

BUT, there came the time when these 2 diverged into totally separate ways of understanding the universe.

Astronomy, uses experiment and observation to study "heavenly bodies" to determine what there composition is, why they behave in the way they do, and so on...while astrology looks at these same "heavenly bodies" and (without any evidence) states that the position/location of them somehow determines the characteristics/behavior of people.

Astronomy endeavours to describe reality...astrology makes vague predictions. The 2 couldn't BE more different.

Candy, I'm sorry but I don't understand how knowing the origins of astrology would make one "welcome" modern astrology. Fact of the matter is that I think that the "case can be made" that when astrology was "new", it was a good science. The astrologers observed the sky...and observation is part of science. But the conclusions that were reached were in error. As knowledge has increased since that time, it's readily appearent that there is no place for astrology in the modern world. This is why. =D> I think if gzhpcu knew the origins, then he would understand the 'transformation'. He might get the hint that astrology is not what he thinks it is. gzhpcu strikes me as the kind of guy that needs to see for himself, as opposed to others telling him he's not exactly correct on his observations.

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-19, 09:21 PM
Certainly none of your sportsmen!

Who's interested in sport?

Klausnh
2004-Sep-19, 10:13 PM
Science seems to suggest that feminine intuition (http://www.goodvibes.com/cgi-bin/sgdynamo.exe?HTNAME=magazine/our_regulars/politically_erect/199707.html#8)exists.

Feminine intuition comes about by observing nonverbal behavior. It has a genetic origin.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-19, 11:04 PM
This is why....

OK, I understand what you're saying now...THANKS!

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 03:18 AM
This was mostly on the Against the Mainstream board, where being serious is to be expected. I am saying you can apparently not let your hair down on this Babbling board either.

If your idea of letting your hair down is making unfounded pronouncements that you refuse to back up with science, then you're right, you can't let your hair down anywhere on this board.

You slammed an entire gender, and it was only after we got upset that you said you were kidding.

If I started a thread, and I said, "Most black people are..." and followed it up with some comment about how they aren't scientific, people would jump all over me as well, and rightly so. Saying I was kidding would not make it okay.

I'm beginning to think that you are being intentionally obtuse.

Please do not make a mountain out of a molehill. I do not see myself as having "slammed an entire gender". IMHO, I said absolutely nothing disrespectful of that gender. You apparently miss the point that since I believe there really is something to astrology (but lets not get into this particular discussion again, please...), it is anything but an insult from my point of view to state that more women than men are interested in astrology. If I held the disparging view you hold and made such a statement that would be an entirely different thing.

I am not intentionally obtuse. If I think I am right, I stick to my guns, no matter how much opposition there is.

dvb
2004-Sep-20, 03:55 AM
Science seems to suggest that feminine intuition (http://www.goodvibes.com/cgi-bin/sgdynamo.exe?HTNAME=magazine/our_regulars/politically_erect/199707.html#8)exists.

Feminine intuition comes about by observing nonverbal behavior. It has a genetic origin.

I always wondered why Captain Janeway talked about womens intuition being the scientist that she is.

paulie jay
2004-Sep-20, 04:28 AM
Certainly none of your sportsmen!

Who's interested in sport?

I suppose I wouldn't be with that track record. :P


Lighten up Rich, eh?

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-20, 08:13 AM
Just winding you up, paulie jay! :)

Yes, I suppose you Aussie's have had some good sportsmen.

Sir Donald Bradman (was that his name?) inclusive of which..he sure would be able to show yanks how to chuck a ball.

Actually, in defence of Brits and sport..one reason we don't do too well is that our sportsmen aren't sponsored by the government as they are in the States and, I think Russia (do they in Oz?). Many of our sportsmen struggle to make ends meet, which clearly must affect their performance..though some get sponsorship deals.

Re Oz.

Aussie soaps like Neighbours!!! Where they say things like "You gonna stye fer brikfast?"

Thank God for the off switch..(though Coronation Street isn't much better)

And I might come to Oz to get a pet Sydney funnel web for my mother-in-law.!

:lol: :lol:

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-20, 11:38 AM
Please do not make a mountain out of a molehill.

...or a mountain out of a "dogpile"?


I do not see myself as having "slammed an entire gender".

How you "see yourself" is not the problem, how everyone else on the board sees you is the problem.


I said absolutely nothing disrespectful of that gender. You apparently miss the point that since I believe there really is something to astrology...it is anything but an insult from my point of view to state that more women than men are interested in astrology.

Once again...consider where you're posting. This is not an astrology board.


I am not intentionally obtuse.

OK...so it's unintentional.

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-20, 12:16 PM
Please do not make a mountain out of a molehill. I do not see myself as having "slammed an entire gender". IMHO, I said absolutely nothing disrespectful of that gender. You apparently miss the point that since I believe there really is something to astrology (but lets not get into this particular discussion again, please...), it is anything but an insult from my point of view to state that more women than men are interested in astrology. If I held the disparging view you hold and made such a statement that would be an entirely different thing.

I am not intentionally obtuse. If I think I am right, I stick to my guns, no matter how much opposition there is.

Someone here is making a mountain out of a molehill, but it's not me.

You've managed to be insulting and now you've spent the last several pages being completely convoluted with the intent of making yourself out as the victim and you've managed to misunderstand how this board operates. Now, I would have to put forth a lot of effort to wade through this mess and demonstrate your flawed thinking, and I don't have time for that, as I have Chaucer homework beckoning. Therefore, I'll leave it to someone else.

However, you have not convinced me one bit that you're a victim here. You have added anecdotal evidence to my belief that people who take astrology seriously struggle with rational thinking in more than one area.

N C More
2004-Sep-20, 12:17 PM
I am not intentionally obtuse. If I think I am right, I stick to my guns, no matter how much opposition there is.

Ok, I can accept that you think that you are right. However, upon what are you basing your belief that astrology has validity and that women are more accepting of this belief system? I mean, are you basing it upon some type of personal faith or just observations and anecdotal evidence? I ask this because I can honestly see nothing verifiable that leads me to think that there is anything that can be used to prove the case for astrology. I also think that the interest that women have in this subject is far more along the lines of using it as a social "ice breaker"...hey, "girls lie too"!

If it turns out that there is some evidence that can be tested and can withstand scrutiny then I will be more than happy to change my opinion.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 01:39 PM
I am not intentionally obtuse. If I think I am right, I stick to my guns, no matter how much opposition there is.

Ok, I can accept that you think that you are right. However, upon what are you basing your belief that astrology has validity and that women are more accepting of this belief system? I mean, are you basing it upon some type of personal faith or just observations and anecdotal evidence? I ask this because I can honestly see nothing verifiable that leads me to think that there is anything that can be used to prove the case for astrology. I also think that the interest that women have in this subject is far more along the lines of using it as a social "ice breaker"...hey, "girls lie too"!

If it turns out that there is some evidence that can be tested and can withstand scrutiny then I will be more than happy to change my opinion.

Astrology: I have intensely studied the modern natal horoscope methodology as documented by psychologists such as Liz Green, RobertHand, Stephen Arroyo, etc. I took the time to work through about 10 reference books. I then applied what I learned on over 50 natal horoscopes of friends and relatives. I am of the opinion that I got good results, which I honestly did not expect. I was surprised.

Women: Based on my own experience, I noticed that most of the European women I have meet at the tennis club, work, friends, wives of friends, all show interest in horoscopes. Admittedly, interest does not mean they necessarily believe in astrology, but they all are curious and many of them read the trite horoscopes in newspapers. This is not the case with my male friends. With a few exceptlions they all wrinkle their noses or frown.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 01:44 PM
P.S., since the above mentioned experience is personal, I can readily accept that who has not done and experienced this themselves will be incredulous.

Gmann
2004-Sep-20, 01:47 PM
I feel partly responsible for the last 2 pages of this thread. It did not occur to me that "dogpile" would be misinterpreted by gzhpcu. to set the record straight, dogpile refers to everyone jumping on to one person for one reason or another. It was not meant as insult to gzhpcu, but rather an admonition to everyone who joined in on the fun. Just because Astrology cannot be either proven, nor definitivly disproven by current means, does not mean that it does not have some degree of validity. It only means that we have not found a method to adequately test it. How many people believe in precognitive dreams? If it had not been for a rather vivid, re-occuring precoginitive dream, we would not be having this conversation. No, I cannot "prove" that I had this dream, nor that there is any method that can be used to test it, but had I not heeded the warning, I would have died in 1976 in a rather unpleasant car accident.

I take things like Astrology, Pschic phenomena, and lots of other woo^2 beliefs, and place them in the "waiting for more information" file. If more info shows up to give them validity, then I say Hmmm, this needs a further look. If that info turns out to disprove them without a doubt, then they officially go to the "woo^2" file, not to be given further consideration.
But, until that time, all options remain open.

R.A.F.
2004-Sep-20, 02:03 PM
It's increasingly obvious that these "astrology threads" are going nowhere.

Gzhpcu, we're never going to convince you that you're wrong because you are a true believer...and you're never going to convince us that we're wrong because you've shown us absolutely no evidence.

For that reason, I'm going to remove myself from this discussion before this thread is locked.

Wally
2004-Sep-20, 02:12 PM
.

Actually, in defence of Brits and sport..one reason we don't do too well is that our sportsmen aren't sponsored by the government as they are in the States and, I think Russia (do they in Oz?). Many of our sportsmen struggle to make ends meet, which clearly must affect their performance..though some get sponsorship deals.


:lol: :lol:

Huh???? Our athletes are not government sponsored here in the States Rich, neither in the present (where most are professional and paid by team owners) or in the past (when parents would have to pony up lots and lots of $$$ to have their kids trained by the best).

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 03:40 PM
It's increasingly obvious that these "astrology threads" are going nowhere.

Gzhpcu, we're never going to convince you that you're wrong because you are a true believer...and you're never going to convince us that we're wrong because you've shown us absolutely no evidence.

For that reason, I'm going to remove myself from this discussion before this thread is locked.


Whew... Finally... :D

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 03:42 PM
I feel partly responsible for the last 2 pages of this thread. It did not occur to me that "dogpile" would be misinterpreted by gzhpcu. to set the record straight, dogpile refers to everyone jumping on to one person for one reason or another. It was not meant as insult to gzhpcu, but rather an admonition to everyone who joined in on the fun. Just because Astrology cannot be either proven, nor definitivly disproven by current means, does not mean that it does not have some degree of validity. It only means that we have not found a method to adequately test it. How many people believe in precognitive dreams? If it had not been for a rather vivid, re-occuring precoginitive dream, we would not be having this conversation. No, I cannot "prove" that I had this dream, nor that there is any method that can be used to test it, but had I not heeded the warning, I would have died in 1976 in a rather unpleasant car accident.

I take things like Astrology, Pschic phenomena, and lots of other woo^2 beliefs, and place them in the "waiting for more information" file. If more info shows up to give them validity, then I say Hmmm, this needs a further look. If that info turns out to disprove them without a doubt, then they officially go to the "woo^2" file, not to be given further consideration.
But, until that time, all options remain open.

Gmann,
Thanks. I find your approach open-minded.

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-20, 04:54 PM
.

Actually, in defence of Brits and sport..one reason we don't do too well is that our sportsmen aren't sponsored by the government as they are in the States and, I think Russia (do they in Oz?). Many of our sportsmen struggle to make ends meet, which clearly must affect their performance..though some get sponsorship deals.


:lol: :lol:

Huh???? Our athletes are not government sponsored here in the States Rich, neither in the present (where most are professional and paid by team owners) or in the past (when parents would have to pony up lots and lots of $$$ to have their kids trained by the best).

Really?

A bit of bad reporting going on somewhere, then.

dvb
2004-Sep-20, 04:59 PM
.

Actually, in defence of Brits and sport..one reason we don't do too well is that our sportsmen aren't sponsored by the government as they are in the States and, I think Russia (do they in Oz?). Many of our sportsmen struggle to make ends meet, which clearly must affect their performance..though some get sponsorship deals.


:lol: :lol:

Huh???? Our athletes are not government sponsored here in the States Rich, neither in the present (where most are professional and paid by team owners) or in the past (when parents would have to pony up lots and lots of $$$ to have their kids trained by the best).

Really?

A bit of bad reporting going on somewhere, then.

No doubt. The Olympics is supposed to be for the amateur athletes, with the exception of hockey it seems.

They say the same thing about the athletes in Canada not having enough government sponsorship.

worzel
2004-Sep-20, 05:01 PM
gzhpcu, your OP made me laugh, as did R.A.F.s responses, although I'm not sure whether he was pulling your leg or not.

Klausnh
2004-Sep-20, 05:28 PM
I take things like Astrology, Pschic phenomena, and lots of other woo^2 beliefs, and place them in the "waiting for more information" file. If more info shows up to give them validity, then I say Hmmm, this needs a further look. If that info turns out to disprove them without a doubt, then they officially go to the "woo^2" file, not to be given further consideration.
But, until that time, all options remain open.
=D>
Well put. My thoughts, exactly. I think, too often, the experiences are not taken seriously by some skeptics and debunkers. While these experiences are not science, they still need to be evaluated with an open mind. Not everyone who experiences psychic phenomena is a "woo-woo".

N C More
2004-Sep-20, 05:33 PM
Astrology: I have intensely studied the modern natal horoscope methodology as documented by psychologists such as Liz Green, RobertHand, Stephen Arroyo, etc. I took the time to work through about 10 reference books. I then applied what I learned on over 50 natal horoscopes of friends and relatives. I am of the opinion that I got good results, which I honestly did not expect. I was surprised.

Women: Based on my own experience, I noticed that most of the European women I have meet at the tennis club, work, friends, wives of friends, all show interest in horoscopes. Admittedly, interest does not mean they necessarily believe in astrology, but they all are curious and many of them read the trite horoscopes in newspapers. This is not the case with my male friends. With a few exceptlions they all wrinkle their noses or frown.

Ok, here's my take on this.

Astrology: There may be some psychological process that allows one to "apply" astrology to understanding other people. However, this appears to me to be rooted in human psychology and not some "magical" influence regarding the position of planets and stars. To my knowledge there is no scientific evidence that the position of planets and stars affects human personality in any manner.

Women: Now, if you were an attractive single woman I suspect that far more men would be interested in having you "do their charts". As far as more women reading horoscopes in papers and magazines, you are probably right about this one. However, it may have more to do with what is considered culturally acceptable reading material for one's gender.

dakini
2004-Sep-20, 05:55 PM
It is all a matter of taste obviously. You can say what you want, but women are different in how they think. Lots more intuition I find. I do not consider being able to talk about the multiple universes a filter for choosing a partner... :D

hell, i'm still with my bf and he fell asleep at planetarium night. *gasp*

but yeah, i dunno, for a while i was quite into the occult (which might have contributed to why i'm no longer a christian) so i could tell you much about astrology, numerology, a little on palmistry et c. but i don't actually believe in it. hell, i might learn more palmistry simply for a party trick kind of thing (which would work much better than your chart calculating, you automatically get physical contact) or tarot... those are interesting though not real.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 06:08 PM
gzhpcu, your OP made me laugh, as did R.A.F.s responses, although I'm not sure whether he was pulling your leg or not.

R.A.F. pulling legs? :o
Are you pulling my leg?

sarongsong
2004-Sep-20, 06:43 PM
...To my knowledge there is no scientific evidence that the position of planets and stars affects human personality in any manner...
From a 'brilliant' perspective:
http://www.ashleighbrilliant.com/ps3618.gif

Irishman
2004-Sep-20, 06:46 PM
My two cents - I think many of you have been too harsh on gzhpcu in this thread. I did not take anything in the OP to be derogatory. Rather, it was a humorous comment on an advantage of knowing a bit about astrology. Sort of like me commenting that a great place to meet women is in church. Somehow that leaves me out.

I have not been privy to the threads in Against the Mainstream. Perhaps some of you (R.A.F.?) are overly sensitive? You know folks, this was in BABBling - a little lighthearted humor is allowed. You don't have to confront every sideways remark about astrology. I mean, the OP wasn't even a strong declaration about astrology. It was simply an observation that it works as an ice breaker. You could just let it blow over.



Women: Now, if you were an attractive single woman I suspect that far more men would be interested in having you "do their charts". As far as more women reading horoscopes in papers and magazines, you are probably right about this one. However, it may have more to do with what is considered culturally acceptable reading material for one's gender.

Careful, a sexist remark like that can get you dogpiled around here. :roll: How come it's okay for you to state that horoscopes are culturally acceptable reading material for women, but when gzhpcu states that women are more likely to be interested in astrology, he's a sexist?

Or to put it differently, why are horoscopes more culturally acceptable for women to read? And if it's more culturally acceptable for them to read horoscopes and follow astrology, then maybe they're more likely to follow astrology, or to express an interest in it?

Now, gzhpcu, you appear to be victim to the beautiful thing that is American slang. An old, common, well-known meaning of dogpile is to gang up on. There's an old game called "kill the man with the ball" that kids sometimes play - with other, less congenial names - that get's the idea across. A newer, less-common, not-often-used meaning of dogpile is a pile of dog poo. Sorry for the confusion. I can see why you might have been rather more offended than the comment seemed to warrant.

And yes, this whole board is pro-science and anti-pseudoscience, so you should expect any pro-astrology remarks to draw their fair share of critical response.




You mean you're not hit on by lesbians?
How do I answer this without getting in trouble? Women do, too. From my experience, it's just on a different level.

I'm sorry, that wasn't meant as a serious remark. Rather, you commented that it was men asking you your sign, so I just wondered why women weren't asking you your sign, and drew the obvious conclusion. ;)

Musashi
2004-Sep-20, 06:59 PM
=D> Good one sarongsong.

N C More
2004-Sep-20, 07:27 PM
Women: Now, if you were an attractive single woman I suspect that far more men would be interested in having you "do their charts". As far as more women reading horoscopes in papers and magazines, you are probably right about this one. However, it may have more to do with what is considered culturally acceptable reading material for one's gender.

Careful, a sexist remark like that can get you dogpiled around here. :roll: How come it's okay for you to state that horoscopes are culturally acceptable reading material for women, but when gzhpcu states that women are more likely to be interested in astrology, he's a sexist?

Or to put it differently, why are horoscopes more culturally acceptable for women to read? And if it's more culturally acceptable for them to read horoscopes and follow astrology, then maybe they're more likely to follow astrology, or to express an interest in it?



First, I never said that gzhpcu was a sexist. I was simply attempting to explain to gzhpcu (a male) why more females seem to be interested in his doing their charts and used the exact opposite scenario to illustrate how men might well be interested in a woman offering to do their charts. I was attempting to show that this "interest" might have an alterior motive that is in fact not at all sexist but rather having more to do with socializing with the opposite gender.

Next, I was agreeing that it might be possible that more women read horoscopes because it may something cultural. I'm not a social psychologist but I do know that certain interests do tend to be gender specific, although not exclusive. Actually, I have no idea what the gender breakdown might be regarding the reading of horoscopes, perhaps someone here has that information?

As far as the validity of astrology, I'll believe it when I see scientific proof.

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-20, 08:04 PM
Next, I was agreeing that it might be possible that more women read horoscopes because it may something cultural. I'm not a social psychologist but I do know that certain interests do tend to be gender specific, although not exclusive. Actually, I have no idea what the gender breakdown might be regarding the reading of horoscopes, perhaps someone here has that information?



Here are the statistics:Relationships between Science and Pseudoscience (http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/c7/c7s5.htm)

Refer to appendix table 7-54


edited for formatting

Maksutov
2004-Sep-20, 09:46 PM
[edit]Be that as it may, there is one enormous benefit that a male with a good knowledge of natal chart interpretation has over a male who has none, namely, it is a great way to strike up a conversation with 99% of the women. It has always worked for me. Sometimes at a party, I even take along my Palm Pilot with a nifty astrology chart plotting program. You get swamped with women, crowding around you! 8)...

Ah. At last the real reason for your interest in astrology becomes clear! :D

Maksutov
2004-Sep-20, 09:57 PM
My two cents - I think many of you have been too harsh on gzhpcu in this thread. I did not take anything in the OP to be derogatory. Rather, it was a humorous comment on an advantage of knowing a bit about astrology. Sort of like me commenting that a great place to meet women is in church. Somehow that leaves me out.

I have not been privy to the threads in Against the Mainstream. Perhaps some of you (R.A.F.?) are overly sensitive? You know folks, this was in BABBling - a little lighthearted humor is allowed. [edit]

This gal I know has done research on a particular type of vehicle common in the US. She says that talking about pickup trucks is a great way to strike up conversations with 99% of all the men she meets.

She said she figured that this group of 99% of all men doesn't really know much about anything except what the stereotyped image of them has predetermined. Since she doesn't like to talk about beer, sports, or sex, she was left with one choice. Her success with this approach has confirmed for her the correctness of this group image and thus she no longer accepts the categorization as a stereotype.

Of course she never mentions this to the men she talks trucks with. 8)

N C More
2004-Sep-20, 10:17 PM
Well, thanks to Maksutov I'm now very confused! You see, I drive a Toyota Tacoma (with a cap for dog crates) and my hubby drives a Mercury! So, does this make us "the odd couple"? :D

Seriously, whether it's "talking trucks" or "talking astrology", if it breaks the ice and helps people get together then that's cool. It's only with the "scientific proof" aspect that I have any problem with astrology. Like I said earlier, my 80 year old Mom gets a kick out of reading the horoscope (she acknowledges that it's strictly for entertainment).

Maksutov
2004-Sep-21, 12:14 AM
Well, thanks to Maksutov I'm now very confused! You see, I drive a Toyota Tacoma (with a cap for dog crates) and my hubby drives a Mercury! So, does this make us "the odd couple"? :D [edit]

Hey, we're here to help! :wink:

Is one of you a "neat freak"? :-k

paulie jay
2004-Sep-21, 12:51 AM
Just winding you up, paulie jay! :)



Just checking! :D :D

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-21, 02:25 AM
.

Actually, in defence of Brits and sport..one reason we don't do too well is that our sportsmen aren't sponsored by the government as they are in the States and, I think Russia (do they in Oz?). Many of our sportsmen struggle to make ends meet, which clearly must affect their performance..though some get sponsorship deals.


:lol: :lol:

Huh???? Our athletes are not government sponsored here in the States Rich, neither in the present (where most are professional and paid by team owners) or in the past (when parents would have to pony up lots and lots of $$$ to have their kids trained by the best).

I think what Richard is referring to is things like college scholarships and university level sports which in a roundabout way are state-sponsored. Not sure how it is England, but Germany only has intramural sports in their schools, and athletic scholarships are rare.

However, you are correct that professional sports are not state sponsored.

MrObvious
2004-Sep-21, 04:17 AM
Yes, I suppose you Aussie's have had some good sportsmen.


Hmmm, Mick Doohan comes to mind.

Then again, you could counter with the late great Barry Sheen

We throw in Wayne Gardner,

You .....

We could play ping pong sportsmen for some time like this... :D

And thats only for motorsports.

Not to leave the US out of the action we have the greats, Rainy, Schwantz, Lawson....

Be getting out those old video's when I get back home and watch these guys in action. 8)

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-22, 08:59 AM
I think what Richard is referring to is things like college scholarships and university level sports which in a roundabout way are state-sponsored. Not sure how it is England, but Germany only has intramural sports in their schools, and athletic scholarships are rare.

However, you are correct that professional sports are not state sponsored.

Thanks, SciFi Chick.

I fancy you by the way.

Your photo at least. 8)

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-22, 11:42 AM
I think what Richard is referring to is things like college scholarships and university level sports which in a roundabout way are state-sponsored. Not sure how it is England, but Germany only has intramural sports in their schools, and athletic scholarships are rare.

However, you are correct that professional sports are not state sponsored.

Thanks, SciFi Chick.

I fancy you by the way.

Your photo at least. 8)

You probably have me confused with Space Cadet. Several people keep mistaking her photo for me. I haven't posted my photo. I keep meaning to, but one thing and another gets in the way. Maksutov knows what I look like though. :D

Richard of Chelmsford
2004-Sep-22, 01:10 PM
I think what Richard is referring to is things like college scholarships and university level sports which in a roundabout way are state-sponsored. Not sure how it is England, but Germany only has intramural sports in their schools, and athletic scholarships are rare.

However, you are correct that professional sports are not state sponsored.

Thanks, SciFi Chick.



I fancy you by the way.

Your photo at least. 8)

You probably have me confused with Space Cadet. Several people keep mistaking her photo for me. I haven't posted my photo. I keep meaning to, but one thing and another gets in the way. Maksutov knows what I look like though. :D

No, I don't fancy Space Cadet and I said so on the site..and she didn't seem to mind.

A blonde chick at her front door, I think?

Who was that?

So post a picture of yourself SciFi. :)

So will I when I can figure out how and unbreakable glass is installed on everyone's computer screen. 8-[

gzhpcu
2004-Sep-22, 01:10 PM
You probably have me confused with Space Cadet. Several people keep mistaking her photo for me. I haven't posted my photo. I keep meaning to, but one thing and another gets in the way. Maksutov knows what I look like though. :D
Err.. not so sure if that is much of an endorsement... :D

typo

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-22, 01:20 PM
You probably have me confused with Space Cadet. Several people keep mistaking her photo for me. I haven't posted my photo. I keep meaning to, but one thing and another gets in the way. Maksutov knows what I look like though. :D
Err.. not so sure if that is much of an endorsement... :D

typo

Endorsement of what? What do you mean by that?

SciFi Chick
2004-Sep-22, 01:22 PM
A blonde chick at her front door, I think?

Who was that?

I don't know. I am a blonde chick though.


So post a picture of yourself SciFi. :)

So will I when I can figure out how and unbreakable glass is installed on everyone's computer screen. 8-[

I definitely plan to, but what with moving and starting school, I've been quite swamped.

Maksutov
2004-Sep-23, 02:38 AM
I think what Richard is referring to is things like college scholarships and university level sports which in a roundabout way are state-sponsored. Not sure how it is England, but Germany only has intramural sports in their schools, and athletic scholarships are rare.

However, you are correct that professional sports are not state sponsored.

Thanks, SciFi Chick.

I fancy you by the way.

Your photo at least. 8)

You probably have me confused with Space Cadet. Several people keep mistaking her photo for me. I haven't posted my photo. I keep meaning to, but one thing and another gets in the way. Maksutov knows what I look like though. :D

Yes I do. I guess sometimes good fortune smiles on guys like me. :D

Irishman
2004-Sep-23, 02:33 PM
Sorry, N C More, my comments weren't necessarily directed only at you, but to the group at large.

mickal555
2004-Nov-08, 12:57 PM
My wife look at her horoscope but I never, ever look at mine.

Women do tend to be more in tune with that kind of thing..for eg, women tend to go to religious places more than men, and are more inclined to oppose wars on philosophical grounds than men.

The only possible connection Horscopes might have with science is the fact that if you are born in the dead of winter, in all the cold..a Capricorn perhaps..then you might have a different approach to life than if you were born in the height of summer..a Leo.

Something about childhood memories of coldness and snow, or leaves and sunshine.

I am a Leo.

My wife is a Capricorn.

So are Australian horoscopes opposite, and folks at the equator all Leo?

Who cares about Australia?
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
[-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X

mickal555
2004-Nov-08, 01:09 PM
Yes, I suppose you Aussie's have had some good sportsmen.


Hmmm, Mick Doohan comes to mind.

Then again, you could counter with the late great Barry Sheen

We throw in Wayne Gardner,

You .....

We could play ping pong sportsmen for some time like this... :D

And thats only for motorsports.

Not to leave the US out of the action we have the greats, Rainy, Schwantz, Lawson....

Be getting out those old video's when I get back home and watch these guys in action. 8)
What about Ian Thorpe

Careless
2004-Nov-08, 07:49 PM
.

Actually, in defence of Brits and sport..one reason we don't do too well is that our sportsmen aren't sponsored by the government as they are in the States and, I think Russia (do they in Oz?). Many of our sportsmen struggle to make ends meet, which clearly must affect their performance..though some get sponsorship deals.


:lol: :lol:

Huh???? Our athletes are not government sponsored here in the States Rich, neither in the present (where most are professional and paid by team owners) or in the past (when parents would have to pony up lots and lots of $$$ to have their kids trained by the best).
MLB (major league baseball) is, sort of. Federal government mandated monopoly

MrObvious
2004-Nov-08, 10:40 PM
What about Ian Thorpe


I only started on motorcycle racers (500cc) as its quite short so I don't miss out on too many, you know so no one gets upset because I forgot their favorite....... :) :wink: