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View Full Version : Berry Colour Change and Mud Flow?



MicroKid
2004-Sep-20, 04:16 AM
Guys,

Think you might be interested in following this thread on the "Mars Forum" board:

http://www.markcarey.com/mars/discuss-19424-berry-color-change.html

Is this a blinker of a VERY recent mud flow event?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/RockField2.gif

Original here (several MBs):

http://www.lipfordm.com/wtsi/1P137415476EFF2200P2577L234567-1P137783817EFF2226P2582L234567.gif

MicroKid

MicroKid
2004-Sep-20, 11:37 PM
Guys,

Here are three BW xeyed shots of the site above:

The first is a pam cam series from Sol 104

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/104/1P137415476EFF2200P2577L2M1.HTML

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/RockFieldcrop01_3d.jpg

The second a pam cam series from Sol 106
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/106/1P137608547EFF2214P2578L7M1.HTML

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/RockFieldcrop02_3d.jpg

And the third a pam cam after the event series from Sol 108

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/108/1P137783817EFF2226P2582L2M1.HTML

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/RockFieldcrop03_3d.jpg

MicroKid

jt-3d
2004-Sep-21, 11:40 AM
Maybe I just don't get it but shadows move with the sun.

aurora
2004-Sep-21, 04:41 PM
Is this a blinker of a VERY recent mud flow event?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/RockField2.gif



The sun is at a very different angle, the second image might be out of focus but maybe it is just because it is completely washed out by the sun, but it looks to me like all the berries are in both images. At least as far as I can tell. Is there a berry you think has disappeared or something?

MicroKid
2004-Sep-22, 12:31 AM
Hi Aurora,

You did see the shiny berries in the later shot are free of the soil in the early shot? Also in the early shot the various darker soil patches are the same colour as the rest of the soil while in the later shot there are concentrated darker patched.

As for the berries which are under the darker soil just follow the lines.

As a bottom line line how do you suppose the brighter berries in the later shot lost their soil crusts?

To have a better look download the bigger blinker and split the images into two files.

Have a look at the xeyed 3d of the later event and you can clearly see some of the darker soil patches are outside the slight depression the rock is siting in. This would suggest water is weeping up from under ground as has been seen in several other places around the rim.

There is a small space / crack between the rock to soil interface (visible in the second pam xeyed shot above) which may indicate differential thermal expansion.

Then there are those really big berry coloured rocks / BBs.

Also note the sandy to bluish soil crossover line has altered outward away from the rock in the later shot verus the earlier shot.

Overall there is strong suggestive evidence for a VERY recent surface flow event based on:

1) Altered soil to bluish boundary line on the left side of the rock.
2) Shinny berries with their earlier soil coatings significantly removed or altered.
3) Many darkened soil patched.
4) BBs in the later shots which are covered by darkish soil.
5) BBs inside the rock flow portal which show soil buildup on the rock face side.
6) Many BBs have moved position.

MicroKid

MicroKid
2004-Sep-22, 10:00 AM
Guys,

Thanks to Horton on the "Mars Forum" for the colour TIF photos and for finding the event.

Here is a xeyed colour photo (Sol 104) of the pre soil / BB colouration flow event state:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/FluidFlowSol104_3d.jpg

And here is xeyed colour (Sol 108) of the post soil / BB colouration flow event state:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/FluidFlowSol108_3d.jpg

Anybody care to explain the change as being caused by anything else but a VERY recent mud / water flow event? Arizona State guys uni what do you see?

MicroKid

slinted
2004-Sep-22, 10:50 AM
Since you are showing before and after images of a rock which was RAT'ed, my opinion would be that the RAT'ing caused the changes you are noting. The inner surface of Lion Stone was very dark, which could explain the dark soil patches, which covered the nearby berries.

In the Opportunity Update Archive, for Sol 107 ( http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status_opportunityAll.html#sol107 ) they specifically mentioned that the Lion Stone (which was only 10 cm by 30 cm) had some high spots in the area they RAT'ed.
"Since the surface of the rock was fairly uneven, the tool had to work through some high spots before getting a good bite on the rock for a full circular hole."

I would think that between the RAT kicking against an uneven surface of a relatively small rock (which could have easily vibrated or even moved) and the dust kicked up from such an event, almost all the changes you noted could be explained.

MicroKid
2004-Sep-22, 11:13 AM
Hi Slinted,

Thanks for the reply.

How would this cause soil and dust covered BBs to become clear of the soil and dust cover (as clearly seen in the pre event photo) and become dark blue, clear of the soil and dust covering and very shinny (as clearly seen in the post event photo).

Not to mention the moved BBs and dark soil covered, once exposed BBs which are covered by very dark soil. Note the colour of the RAT dust on the BBs in the upper right of the post event photo which is very much lighter than the dark soil patches.

Then if you look at the earlier left post event photos (the ones with the dark soil patches) as compared to the later right post event photos which show a very significant lightening of the darker soil patches.

As a side note now do you explain the dark soil patches at the bottom left (down stream) of the rock (where the "Flow Channel" starts)?

While I can see very obivious effects of the RAT grind, I would suggest it is a long bow to draw to suggest the totality of the post events were caused by the RAT tailings.

Some BBs covered by dark soil / mud (in area which no RAT tailings could get too), others moved and others made shinny?

Here are the original colour 3MB tif files (thanks Horton):

Sol 104:

http://www.lipfordm.com/wtsi/1P137415476EFF2200P2577L234567.tif

http://www.lipfordm.com/wtsi/1P137415657EFF2200P2577R1234567.tif

Sol 108:

http://www.lipfordm.com/wtsi/1P137783817EFF2226P2582L234567.tif

http://www.lipfordm.com/wtsi/1P137783983EFF2226P2582R1234567.tif

MicroKid

Omicron Persei 8
2004-Sep-22, 07:36 PM
Guys,

Thanks to Horton on the "Mars Forum" for the colour TIF photos and for finding the event.

Here is a xeyed colour photo (Sol 104) of the pre soil / BB colouration flow event state:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/FluidFlowSol104_3d.jpg

And here is xeyed colour (Sol 108) of the post soil / BB colouration flow event state:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MicroKid/FluidFlowSol108_3d.jpg

Anybody care to explain the change as being caused by anything else but a VERY recent mud / water flow event? Arizona State guys uni what do you see?

MicroKid

Those two images come from different filter combos. You can still see the berries in the left image but just not as well. Really....take a look. I think you're shooting blanks kid.