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View Full Version : Highway 61 Revisited: 205/mph Speeding Citation



sarongsong
2004-Sep-24, 07:18 AM
Minnesota
"...Tilley, 20...the son of a sheriff's deputy...was clocked...going 205 mph on his Honda...140 mph over the limit on U.S. Highway 61....by a State Patrol pilot flying overhead, stopwatch in hand..."
The ticket (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0922042speed1.html) shows only "Honda 1000", no model year.
Could it be the 'ancient' CBX (http://www.members.shaw.ca/cbx4evr/history.htm)?

Candy
2004-Sep-24, 07:25 AM
I saw this on the local news, but I got side-tracked and forgot to look it up online.

Gee, I wonder if we could get the kid's social security number, too. :o

So when will the young lad, Samuel Tilley, be on Leno or Letterman?

sarongsong
2004-Sep-24, 08:02 AM
I'm betting on Leno, since he's a gear-head---oh, wait, forgot about Dave's team winning Indy---and he's a reformed speeder---it's a toss-up, then.

Kizarvexis
2004-Sep-25, 08:09 AM
Yahoo had the following article on the speeding bike.



Patrol Stands by 205 Speeding Ticket (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=817&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20040925/ap_on_fe_st/205_mph_ticket)
Sat Sep 25,12:37 AM ET

WABASHA, Minn. - There's little doubt that a Stillwater motorcyclist could wind up his Honda sport motorcycle past 180 mph, but members of the motorcycle racing world question whether the State Patrol was correct to cite him for 205 mph last weekend.

The State Patrol is standing by its stopwatch, and the speeding ticket a veteran trooper wrote for Samuel Tilley for driving his 2003 Honda RC51 on U.S. Highway 61 near Wabasha on the state's eastern border.

Tilley faces misdemeanor charges of speeding, reckless driving and riding without a motorcycle license. He has declined repeated requests for comment from several media outlets in the past few days.

Rest of the article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=817&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20040925/ap_on_fe_st/205_mph_ticket)


The article also mentions that motorcycle enthusiasts said if the timing were off by only a half-second, it would drop Tilley's speed to about 185 mph, which I would guess is a more reasonable speed to be expected for that type of bike.

BTW, I see an almost 2 second difference over 1 mile between 205mph and 185mph, so for the difference to be a half second, the airplane must have clocked him over a 1/4 mile stretch of road. (In Florida we have lines on the highway placed one half mile to one mile apart at various places on the interstates. I don't know how MN does their aerial traffic patrol though.) (Feel free to check my math as HS was a long time ago. :))

Kizarvexis

Master258
2004-Sep-25, 03:18 PM
I realy should watch more news. I live kinda near Wabasha and I didn't hear about it

Normandy6644
2004-Sep-25, 03:27 PM
I realy should watch more news. I live kinda near Wabasha and I didn't hear about it

If this is the best that's happening I don't think you're missing much.

tuffel999
2004-Sep-25, 04:35 PM
ticket (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0922042speed1.html) shows only "Honda 1000", no model year.
Could it be the 'ancient' CBX (http://www.members.shaw.ca/cbx4evr/history.htm)?

No it couldn't it is the CBR1000RR. Pretty obvious from the model number and picture.

01101001
2004-Sep-25, 04:52 PM
BTW, I see an almost 2 second difference over 1 mile between 205mph and 185mph, so for the difference to be a half second, the airplane must have clocked him over a 1/4 mile stretch of road.
You betcha. From an Associated Press Article (http://wcco.com/localnews/local_story_265090112.html):


He clicked [the stopwatch] once when the motorcycle reached a white marker on the road and again a quarter-mile later. The watch read 4.39 seconds, which Loney calculated to be 205 mph.
And, a bit of pronunciation trivia, for it could be misleading: Wabasha is WAH-bah-shah.

tuffel999
2004-Sep-25, 06:54 PM
The AP is reporting the bike as RC51 now but that doesn't match the ticket or the picture from the first link.

Master258
2004-Sep-25, 08:16 PM
I realy should watch more news. I live kinda near Wabasha and I didn't hear about it

If this is the best that's happening I don't think you're missing much.
Don't be hating

sarongsong
2004-Sep-27, 03:22 AM
From The Smoking Gun, whose link begins this thread, when asked about the bike description discrepancy:
"...we have gotten a lot of email from motorcycle people claiming it couldn't be a 1000--and I'm guess they're right. but i also wonder how the cops got it so wrong--even though the bikes do look alike...".
CourtTV, take note; a guaranteed ratings-booster:
"...Tilley will get a chance to plead his case in Wabasha County District Court on Oct. 25."---(from AP link above)

MrObvious
2004-Sep-27, 05:32 AM
I'd say the cops were slightly out, its easier for a cop to make a few hundred milliseconds error than to make an unmodified RC51 go 205mph.
There's not too many stock production bikes capable of those sorts of speeds, but it's fun trying. On a track of course......8-[
At $330 fine thats pretty cheap too, about a dollar per km/hr. Court case might hurt a bit more though.

We had one guy down here clocked at 270km/hr on a ZZR1100, (ZX11 in the US IIRC) with a pillion. His excuse was he had 4days off for Easter and he wanted to get as far away from Sydney as possible! Colorful language removed. Before anyone ask's, no it wasn't me; I live in Melbourne :D


Tuffel999, I'm gathering you're a rider.....

Candy
2004-Sep-27, 06:04 AM
Perhaps, Master258 could drive by the kids house and ask him what kind of motorcycle it is. It's not like all of the kids information is on the ticket or anything. Heck, you could probably look up his phone number in the phonebook. 8-[

mid
2004-Sep-27, 12:22 PM
There's little doubt that a Stillwater motorcyclist could wind up his Honda sport motorcycle past 180 mph, but members of the motorcycle racing world question whether the State Patrol was correct to cite him for 205 mph last weekend.

There is a guy in the UK who specialises in acting as an expert witness in speeding fine cases like this one - many people have got their charges dismissed by presenting his testimony that their car was not capable of reaching the speed on the ticket. Sounds like a prime case for doing this here, too.

Argos
2004-Sep-27, 02:28 PM
The article also mentions that motorcycle enthusiasts said if the timing were off by only a half-second, it would drop Tilley's speed to about 185 mph, which I would guess is a more reasonable speed to be expected for that type of bike.

Even for a Moto GP competition 205 mph would be fast.

For comparison, an F-1 car attains that speed only by the end of long straights. Some F-1 circuits never see a car speeding at 205 mph.

Grizzly
2004-Sep-27, 05:39 PM
I'm verrrry skeptical about the speed. Perhaps he was in the 160-170 range, but 205? That's salt flat speed, and on an unmodified bike - never mind that it's a rice rocket...

Whatever, he's still guilty of speeding, and should ensure that he fills out a donor card. Then again, at that speed there might not be anything worth saving.

----
Omnia iam fient quae posse negabam
Everything which I used to say could not happen will happen now.

ToSeek
2004-Sep-27, 05:55 PM
Motorcycle World Abuzz at 205 Mph Ticket (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=816&e=2&u=/ap/20040927/ap_on_fe_st/205_mph_ticket)


People across the country are shaking their heads over the kid ticketed for allegedly riding his motorcycle at 205 mph some out of disapproval, other because they doubt he went that fast.

frogesque
2004-Sep-27, 06:00 PM
Seems to me that the speed is questionable in which case it would be better to charge him with dangerous driving or whatever the local equivalent is.

If found guilty, ban (12 months min), compulsary work as an A&E assisistant and resit test before he's allowed to drive so much as a lawnmower. I'm fed up with jerks that think it's cool to drive in a way that can wipe out other folk just going about minding their own business.

Doodler
2004-Sep-27, 06:04 PM
There was a CNN article that had one expert stating he'd need a Turbocharger to get to 180 or so. Is it possible to rig a nitrous system on a bike, or sex up the fuel mixture for a few extra MPH? Like a enriched 105 Octane gas?

Demigrog
2004-Sep-27, 06:13 PM
To get a speed of 165mph, the officer would have timed about 5.45 seconds. If the officer was off by a whole second on his timing, that would be about the difference between 70mph (12.85 s) and 65mph (13.85 s). So, if the police admit to a mistake in this case, that opens the possibility that they are also wrong on a much larger percentage of tickets... a can of worms to say the least.

MrObvious
2004-Sep-28, 01:45 AM
Is it possible to rig a nitrous system on a bike, or sex up the fuel mixture for a few extra MPH? Like a enriched 105 Octane gas?


Yes and yes. Though to get more power out of the better fuel you'd need to increase the compression ration or increase the flow through the heads by porting, re-jetting etc. A simple swap to a higher octane won't give it enough ponies to get that sort of speed, may give a couple of mp/hr if that.

Many bikes have nitrous, but thats a lot of mods to do and would be pretty obvious to anyone who knows engines.

The problem at speed is that it takes many more hp to get small increases in top speed. It's just as important to get the aerodynamics more efficient. Problem is the rider is also a large part of the system so needs to be considered. Stability at that speed would be a major issue so a steering damper would be a must, a tank slapper at 205mph, no thanks!!! :o

Looking at the specs on the RC51 it would take much more hp than it has to get it at that speed. The best production bikes nowdays will do about 300km/hr (187mph) in ideal conditions, which is still considerably lower than the quoted speed. A 1/4 second error the wrong way on start and finish would make more sense, but it seems the police force are under the impression this is less likely than a bike doing that sort of speed.

It seems a common belief, my parents and friends keep thinking that my bike will do over 300km/hr because they see the MotoGP bikes do those sorts of speeds (mine can't). The attitude, a bike is a bike and they are all fast and all dangerous seems to be the norm. Oddly when I point out that a race car can do over 300km/hr easily and ask why their car can't, I get: Because our car isn't a race car! :roll:

Kaptain K
2004-Sep-28, 10:00 AM
A motorcycle (even one with a slick fairing) has the aerodynamics of a brick! The history of Bonneville is littered with failed attempts to get a street legal bike over 200 mph. Even all-out roadracing bikes have difficulty exceeding 190 or so. Honda says the maximum speed of a stock RC51 is 160 mph.

Grizzly
2004-Sep-28, 01:24 PM
A motorcycle (even one with a slick fairing) has the aerodynamics of a brick! The history of Bonneville is littered with failed attempts to get a street legal bike over 200 mph. Even all-out roadracing bikes have difficulty exceeding 190 or so. Honda says the maximum speed of a stock RC51 is 160 mph.

My point exactly. There's something wrong with this picture. I believe that the lad might get off on a technicality. Did he speed? Yup. Is he a candidate for kicking the oxygen habit? Yup. Will the police admit to the mistake in estimating the speed? Never.

----
Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem!
The devil made me do it!

sarongsong
2004-Oct-04, 06:33 AM
Dear Santa...
"...Chrysler's knockout road bike named after the U.S. cruise missile, the Tomahawk. The radical, 400 mph hunk of metal looks like something out of a 'Terminator' movie, combining art-deco styling with extreme engineering... has decided to make up to ten hand-built reproductions, each to be sold at the smooth price of $555,000..."
http://www.digitalcad.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=27140

sarongsong
2004-Nov-19, 05:51 AM
October 25, 2004
"...WABASHA, MINN. - ...[Tilley] met with authorities today to discuss a possible plea bargain..."I'm sure he wanted to give it some thought," Nordstrom said after the session, during which Tilley entered a plea of not guilty to charges of going 140 mph over the speed limit, failure to carry a motorcycle endorsement and reckless driving...is due back in Wabasha County court on Dec. 22 for a pretrial conference.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5050395.html
[Note: This site seems to allow only one viewing without registering.]
Samuel Tilley:
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images/news8/1speed102004.e.jpg

Wally
2004-Nov-19, 01:36 PM
Question: At top speeds (whether it be 180 or 200+), would you be able to "let off" the accelerator completely to slow down, or would the compression braking at that speed throw you out of control?

Asked another way, would you have to ease off the throttle to maintain control while slowing down? Just curious. . .

sarongsong
2004-Dec-25, 06:21 AM
December 23
"...[Tilley] pleaded guilty on Wednesday in Wabasha County District Court to speeding and was sentenced to 200 hours of community service...on probation for a year and ordered him to pay $125 in court and probation fees...will not serve any jail time. He also admitted not having a proper motorcycle license. Under a plea agreement, a reckless-driving charge was dropped..."
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5153522.html
"...A couple of days after Tilley got the ticket, he took the motorcycle there to have its performance measured on a dynamometer...a mechanic at Hitman who races bikes professionally said they couldn't get Tilley's bike to go faster than 159 mph...How fast does he think Tilley's bike could be ridden? "Maybe 165 mph, on a good day," Ackermann said. "With the physical capabilities of the RC51, you can't get it up to 205. Unless you threw it out of an airplane."
http://biketalk.directparts.com/archive/index.php/t-681.html

Nergal
2004-Dec-27, 04:37 PM
Dear Santa...
"...Chrysler's knockout road bike named after the U.S. cruise missile, the Tomahawk. The radical, 400 mph hunk of metal looks like something out of a 'Terminator' movie, combining art-deco styling with extreme engineering... has decided to make up to ten hand-built reproductions, each to be sold at the smooth price of $555,000..."
http://www.digitalcad.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=27140

Have you seen that bike?

Sure, it looks good, but I seriously doubt is has ever (or will ever) go more than 20mph around a parking lot. Even thought it's got a funky double wheel lean system, it's massively unstable. While it might be able to hit some impressive strait line speeds (if they can find anyone insane enough to try), it's got to handle like a water buffalo stuck in mud. Changing lanes at normal highway speeds on that thing must be an adventure.