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View Full Version : Should Enterprise be given a second chance?



banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Oct-13, 11:06 AM
The show's third season was well executed. Both TNG and DS9 came into their own during their third seasons and both went on for four seasons after that. Is Enterprise being unfairly singled out? Should it be given a second chance? Poll- yes/no

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Oct-13, 11:07 AM
http://www.trektoday.com/news/111004_03.shtml

Glom
2004-Oct-13, 11:50 AM
What singles Enterprise out from others series was that the first two seasons were not just teething, they were smegging atrocious. Second two was bad episode followed by terrible episode followed by even worse episode. The writing stank, the acting stank, the directing stank!

B&B once again blame the audience for the bad show. It wasn't the fact that it was a prequel that annoyed us. I liked the idea. It was that it wasn't. It was an abuse of a perfectly good premise.

Now, to prove their incompetence, the only way they've managed to give the show any potential is to effectively say that it is no longer Star Trek by faffing around with more alternate realities that Soviet state education.

You want to give Enterprise another chance, I couldn't care less. But it is not Star Trek.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Oct-13, 12:30 PM
http://www.trektoday.com/news/111004_01.shtml

Glom
2004-Oct-13, 12:34 PM
They brought the Holocaust into it? Not only desperate but incredibly bad taste that B&B should make use of a massacre to sell their TV show.

Humphrey
2004-Oct-13, 12:40 PM
There has already been a second chance, it was season 2.
After the pilot it was the first chance. :-)


Like ive said in the other thread, So far the one episode of season 3 they have showed it does have promise over the previous seasons. They are still making some mistakes that i listed in the other thread, but overall the writing of the episode was better than previous episodes. They tried to do a Dominion war copy with Enterprise, but failed in its execution because of poor character writing. Along with other things. It seems that they have not realized the flaw yet, but from the writings of future episodes, they will flesh them out more.

They seem to have stopped focusing only camera angles on Whats her names (real life name of T'pol, Joleine i think) cleavage.

What they have done is gone back to the roots of the series and started to inject in trek lore. They are going to start this season adding in stuff we know and love from TOS and TNG. For example they are doing a short arc (i think two episodes) on the eugenics wars.

But overall i was impressed with the season opener and the decent writing job they did. It was a good story. Lets hope they continue down the path and you might eb right. It might pull itself out of its grave and keep on going.



P.S. im sticking with my predition that UPN will not pick it up again after the contract runs out, but Spike TV will.

SeanF
2004-Oct-13, 03:32 PM
They brought the Holocaust into it? Not only desperate but incredibly bad taste that B&B should make use of a massacre to sell their TV show.
That USA Today reporter's comment to the contrary, there was no reference to the Holocaust in the premiere episode. World War II and the Nazis, yes. The Holocaust, no.

Glom
2004-Oct-13, 03:41 PM
Okay then. That's good. How cowardly and politically correct of them! :^o :D :wink:

SeanF
2004-Oct-13, 03:52 PM
Okay then. That's good. How cowardly and politically correct of them! :^o :D :wink:
Damned if they do, damned if they don't, eh, Glom? ;)

electromagneticpulse
2004-Oct-13, 04:19 PM
personaly i liked the first to series of Enterprise it was a relief from the trivial episodes of the later series of TNG and Voyager. Especialy the time traveling in Voyager as it was gut wrenching, but the temperal derective they have would have come direct from the Enterprise's own experiances.

I personaly believe DS9 was the best star trek as i found all the episodes fun unlike some of the later TNG which caused me to stop enjoying watching it so much but still an amazing show.

Glom
2004-Oct-13, 04:42 PM
I agree with that, emp, about the contemporary series, but I would add that I would place Classic above them all.

ToSeek
2004-Oct-13, 04:56 PM
Okay then. That's good. How cowardly and politically correct of them! :^o :D :wink:

To be fair, in our timeline the full scope of the Holocaust didn't come out until after the war was over.

Ut
2004-Oct-13, 05:06 PM
So, when is it profiteering, and when is it reminding people and making think think of a serious, tragic event in human history that gets a little farther away from us with each passing generation?

You know, just askin'...

Humphrey
2004-Oct-13, 05:08 PM
I've been watching DS9 on Spike recently and i forgot how good it really was. With the obvious exceptions of the religion episodes, i really do think its my favorite.

Glom
2004-Oct-13, 05:26 PM
So, when is it profiteering, and when is it reminding people and making think think of a serious, tragic event in human history that gets a little farther away from us with each passing generation?

Good question. I suppose one of many, many criteria that could be used to a distinguish between the two is whether or not the inclusion of the event is introduced as some random plot twist in a show that is all over the place.

N C More
2004-Oct-13, 05:31 PM
Hey, it's not as bad as some stuff I've seen on TV!

Personally, I think that anything that reminds people of what took place during WW2 is a good thing. I'm of the generation whose parents were the ones involved in that time period. My Dad had scars from bullet holes he received at Iwo Jima and one of my best friend's Mom had numbers tattooed on her forearm. After awhile this just becomes "history", it's good to remember that for some it was their "reality".

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Oct-13, 05:39 PM
here's a question- how did Voyager continue for as long as it did? Ti me it was Voyager that was absolute tripe...

electromagneticpulse
2004-Oct-13, 06:43 PM
Hey, it's not as bad as some stuff I've seen on TV!

Personally, I think that anything that reminds people of what took place during WW2 is a good thing. I'm of the generation whose parents were the ones involved in that time period. My Dad had scars from bullet holes he received at Iwo Jima and one of my best friend's Mom had numbers tattooed on her forearm. After awhile this just becomes "history", it's good to remember that for some it was their "reality".

I would have to agree, myself im the 2nd generation. One grandfather i never got to meet he died from the after effects of his wounds but that was a long time down the line, 1986/87 IIRC. My other grandfather died a year ago and he got a bullet through his torso, the impact scar was about an inch wide and the exit wound was about 4 inches, lucky it didn't go through anything.
If we dont look at the past we'll never predict the future. Afterall Hitler wasn't the first person to have a holocaust, excluding how you feel on the bible the old testament writings about the holocaust on the jews while in egypt etc has all been wrong but still people seem shocked like its the first time. Even the americans have bloody hands with the native americans like all the other countrys in the world. The only people excluded from a holocaust as far as im aware would be Canada... no wonder their all odd :lol:
sorry cant help it im moving there to be with fellow weirdo's... maybe i could lead them :roll:

Gullible Jones
2004-Oct-13, 07:11 PM
There shall be no retribution for Enterprise. Beam this damn thing out, Scotty...

Enzp
2004-Oct-14, 04:19 AM
One problem with enterprise is its distribution. When TNG was on, I could find it on all manner of channels day and night. I could watch it when I felt like it. I work nights, so 8PM is when I am at work. TNG was syndicated to local channels all over.

Enterprise on the other hand is a UPN product and they only show it on UPN stations. Far fewer of them, and it is only on the once a week. I never get to see it. I would, but the tight distribution prevents it.

No I won't tape it, the old lady hoards the VCR for Law and Order reruns. When I am home I am watching other things and have no time for time shifting my viewing. Yes, Enterprise isn;t important enough to me to displace something else.

I pretty much go for anything with spaceships flying around. Phasors phasing, warp engines warping, aliens alienating. Yay. What I don't like is talkers talking. I found DS9 to be essentially a soap opera. Other than the fine voice of Avery Brooks, I didn't care for it much. Oh and I enjoy Rene Oberjenois (sp?) in whatever he does. They would walk aroud and talk a lot. Once in a while they would fly off for a minute, but then it was back to yakking. Sorry.

At least on Voyager they flew around a lot and traded shots with their phasors. What was maddening about that show was 80% of the lines were whispered. Apparently they thought that having the players whisper their lines made it more dramatic or something. I found it annoying and often hard to hear.

I still prefer TNG over the others, although nothing tops "A Piece of the Action" in my book.

dvb
2004-Oct-14, 12:04 PM
I've been watching DS9 on Spike recently and i forgot how good it really was. With the obvious exceptions of the religion episodes, i really do think its my favorite.

The alternate universe episodes are the ones that get to me on DS9. I mean, what's the likelyhood that all the same characters are going to be in the same place in a different universe?

The religious episodes don't bother me all that much. There are often good lessons to be learned from them.

Glom
2004-Oct-14, 12:39 PM
But the alternate universe episodes are great.

GUARD: You killed my wife!

THE INTENDENT: Isn't that a coincidence? I was hoping you weren't married.

ToSeek
2004-Oct-14, 01:43 PM
I've been watching DS9 on Spike recently and i forgot how good it really was. With the obvious exceptions of the religion episodes, i really do think its my favorite.

The alternate universe episodes are the ones that get to me on DS9. I mean, what's the likelyhood that all the same characters are going to be in the same place in a different universe?



Yes, but it saves on casting. And it's worth it to see Nana Visitor chew the scenery as The Intendent. Actually, it's worth it just to see Nana Visitor as the Intendent.

Ut
2004-Oct-14, 02:41 PM
So, when is it profiteering, and when is it reminding people and making think think of a serious, tragic event in human history that gets a little farther away from us with each passing generation?

Good question. I suppose one of many, many criteria that could be used to a distinguish between the two is whether or not the inclusion of the event is introduced as some random plot twist in a show that is all over the place.

Burn, dude! Burn! That was a burn!

I still agree with Nancy and EMP, though. Whatever reminds people that genocide is bad...

And let's face it, a Nazi planet episode? I can think of at least one reason it would have been done that doesn't directly involve the war.

PeterFab
2004-Oct-14, 04:27 PM
And let's face it, a Nazi planet episode? I can think of at least one reason it would have been done that doesn't directly involve the war.

Well, it's not the first time. Classic Trek did Patterns of Force, and that did deal with genocide to a certain extend.

Glom
2004-Oct-14, 10:09 PM
'Patterns of Force' was an interesting episode. I liked the way that the anthropologist wanted to make use of the efficiency of Nazism while suppressing the malevolence, realising that it was not possible.

PeterFab
2004-Oct-15, 06:07 AM
Also a favourite of mine.
Though it is funny just how many of Kirk's former teacher have made really bad decisions.

Thompson
2004-Oct-15, 03:18 PM
Well, for one this 'Nazi planet' everyone is talking about is actually Earth in 1944. Ent was thrown back in time by Daniels, again, when the temporal cold war was escalated when temporal agents were told to change history to eliminate some enemies. Right now alien agents have succesfulloy help Nazi Germany to invade America, and i think its a good plot advance for the temporal cold war. (if anybody hasent figured it out, i am one of the people who like watching this show.)


QUOTE: Enzp
------------------------------------------------------------------
I pretty much go for anything with spaceships flying around. Phasors phasing, warp engines warping, aliens alienating. Yay. What I don't like is talkers talking. I found DS9 to be essentially a soap opera. Other than the fine voice of Avery Brooks, I didn't care for it much. Oh and I enjoy Rene Oberjenois (sp?) in whatever he does. They would walk aroud and talk a lot. Once in a while they would fly off for a minute, but then it was back to yakking. Sorry.
------------------------------------------------------------------

With the Dominion War in DS9 how could you not like it?

electromagneticpulse
2004-Oct-15, 03:45 PM
With the Dominion War in DS9 how could you not like it?

I agree, i could never get why people say DS9 has no action in it, they had a war. They had fighting on planets where the whole episode was phaser fire minus the start before the credits of how they got there and the ending 5 mins. Or when the cardassians (sp?) try to take back the station. I find these better then voyagers holo suite fighting, found those ones dumb.

Atleast DS9 had a war in for action :roll:

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Oct-15, 06:28 PM
Well, for one this 'Nazi planet' everyone is talking about is actually Earth in 1944. Ent was thrown back in time by Daniels, again, when the temporal cold war was escalated when temporal agents were told to change history to eliminate some enemies. Right now alien agents have succesfulloy help Nazi Germany to invade America, and i think its a good plot advance for the temporal cold war. (if anybody hasent figured it out, i am one of the people who like watching this show.)


QUOTE: Enzp
------------------------------------------------------------------
I pretty much go for anything with spaceships flying around. Phasors phasing, warp engines warping, aliens alienating. Yay. What I don't like is talkers talking. I found DS9 to be essentially a soap opera. Other than the fine voice of Avery Brooks, I didn't care for it much. Oh and I enjoy Rene Oberjenois (sp?) in whatever he does. They would walk aroud and talk a lot. Once in a while they would fly off for a minute, but then it was back to yakking. Sorry.
------------------------------------------------------------------

With the Dominion War in DS9 how could you not like it?

Ok ...

You've Never seen The Original Series, have you?

Humphrey
2004-Oct-16, 02:33 AM
WARNING!!! SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!



































Well i saw the finale of the Nazi and Cold war storyline. Up to the very end i thought it was good. There was no character development and the supporting cast beyond Archer got very little screentime. The action was decent and at a good pacing. The Suluban turning to help the badguys was prety obvious (it was majorly hinted at last week). I really liked how they could not fix the ship in time and had to go down to the surface to fire manually. Thats some good thinking.

But then they commited the most anoying and dumb things they could of done. They hit the big red freaking reset button and everything went back to what it was before. Arrrgggg....Why? They didnt even bother to explain in technobable how or why everything is resetting itself, just that it is.

So with a majority of the two episode arc they had some good stuff going, but then reverted to their usual previous season crud. Lets hope they keep the good writing and loose the timetravel/reset button.

Sigh, i had my hopes up prety high after the end of last weeks episode, but they have fallen again after this one. Lets hope my dreams of the series becoming good stay afloat.

Enzp
2004-Oct-16, 03:51 AM
By the time they had skidded around to the Jem Hadar, I was tired of them and had given up. I didn't buy the mindless warriors with dope tubes in their heads. Nor the slimy preator, centurion, or whatever he was. A few episodes of blow up were not enough to overcome the many with talky/preachy dialog and little else.

of course that is just my opinion.

I really never cared for Babylon 5 for the same reason.

Basically my tastes are narrow, I want a submarine movie set in outer space. With the exception of where Spock drops the wrench an d the other ship "hears" it and fires on them. That bugged me. The original Star Wars was ideal.

And as long as there was A Piece of the Action, I will forgive the first series its other sins.

Then there was Lexx...

Moose
2004-Oct-16, 11:22 AM
Humphrey, they wrote out the temporal cold war. It's gone. Done. Fini. They made it clear we'll never see Daniels or Silik again.

They listened, and they did what you've all been crying about all this time. They've learned that arcs are good, and Coto has said in an interview that he intends to head closer to TOS continuity. He actually has watched TOS.

What more do you want from them?

Humphrey
2004-Oct-16, 05:10 PM
Humphrey, they wrote out the temporal cold war. It's gone. Done. Fini. They made it clear we'll never see Daniels or Silik again.

They listened, and they did what you've all been crying about all this time. They've learned that arcs are good, and Coto has said in an interview that he intends to head closer to TOS continuity. He actually has watched TOS.

What more do you want from them?

I had no problem with continutity. I never watched TOS except a few episodes. Im more of a TNG/DS9 (with a good smattering of Voyager) person. Nearly all of my gripes have been against the writing and the use of sex/SFX in the show. If you read my thoughts on this season i like most of the two episodes except the big red button at the end. At the end of the first episode i was prety excited to see what this will bring.

Just that this series has been plagued by many episodes filled with poorly written characters and situations. They tried really hard and succeded for most of the first and second episode. They ignored technobabble alot and focused more on story and peril. Unlike other episodes there was a sense of impending dread and doom. The ship was not all powerful and could not take on the entire armada on its own. It was badly damaged and could barely keep itself intact. They had to scavenge parts form one system to fix another. I really liked this. The focus on SFX was minimal and only used as background material, not as a plot point itself.

What dissapointed me was the reset button at the end. All they they achieved and did was erased and all loose ends were tied up in prety much a single spoken dialogue by Daniels. It was like at the end they realized that they had some holes in the plot to tie up and just said that instead of writing a new history of earth that had these events happen in them, they just decided to blue screen the acotrs and say "Umm...everything went back to what it was...yah. No more bad guys and stuff on earth....".


Contrary to what you may think i do not hate Enterprise, i hate whats being done to it.

Moose
2004-Oct-17, 01:49 AM
What do they incorporate into canon, and what do they undo? B&B's overuse of time made one helluva mess of things. I suspect the reset button was the only way out. But I'd gotten the impression, from Daniel's speech, that Coto was announcing the end of time arcs and possibly (hopefully) the reset button.

We'll have to see what happens in the next few episodes in terms of the Xindi and how much "history" got reset.

What worries me are the "special guest star" episodes that are upcoming.

Humphrey
2004-Oct-17, 02:31 AM
Yah from what i read that this will be the end of the cold war and the suluban.

The episode with Brent Spiner is from the Eugenics war arch. Acording the the teaser trailers and text, he is basically a clone of kahn or one like kahn. So far he is the only confirmed person other than a possible Shatner.

They confirmed that the green slave girls will be in sometime this season. They also will change the Vulcans from the state they are in now to a more emotionles state that you see in TOS and TNG.