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View Full Version : Vale Oliver, the so called humanzee.



sirius0
2012-Sep-14, 12:17 PM
As a boy Oliver was one of my big fascinations. I was sad to hear he had died. In June, not long ago but I still missed the news.

He can be read about here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_%28chimpanzee%29

I never thought he could be a human hybrid. But I do have a suggestion that, if true, would make him in a strange way closer to us than a chimpanzee but more primitive than a chimpanzee (if we aren't to have a human bias on evolution and the direction it may choose to take ).

I was wondering if perhaps he was a hybrid of a Bonobo and a Chimpanzee. I think it was Darwin who observed with some domesticated ducks that a hybrid with some wild ducks bought forward some primitive features for either type of duck.

There is a growing popularity behind the idea that the Chimpanzees we have today may have had a bipedal ancestor. This view, that allows for evolution to go forward and back (from a us as being the goal point of view, which is of course a fancy) does much to explain how we can have such similar genes only approx 3 million years worth of separation whilst the earliest hominids went bipedal at about 8 million years ago.

Perhaps Oliver was living evidence of the apes return to the trees from being hominids or even perhaps classifiably human!? (I am hoping that the suggestion that some "animals" evolved from us might get some speedier responses :) )

Noclevername
2012-Sep-14, 12:52 PM
I remember reading a newspaper article on him, back in the days when he was still thought to have 47 chromosomes. They tried to play it up as this big mystery-- "What is he? No one knows for sure!" :rolleyes:

As for modern apes evolving from humans or near-humans, it seems unlikely-- our particular brand of problem-solving intelligence and tool use tends to mitigate physical evolution. Humans have adapted physically to every environment we could reach, but those adaptations were minor and did not come remotely close to creating subspecies, and in fact barely altered our genetics in more than a cosmetic way. We alter our environment to suit us much more than our environment alters us.

HenrikOlsen
2012-Sep-14, 01:34 PM
I never thought he could be a human hybrid. But I do have a suggestion that, if true, would make him in a strange way closer to us than a chimpanzee but more primitive than a chimpanzee (if we aren't to have a human bias on evolution and the direction it may choose to take ).

I was wondering if perhaps he was a hybrid of a Bonobo and a Chimpanzee. I think it was Darwin who observed with some domesticated ducks that a hybrid with some wild ducks bought forward some primitive features for either type of duck.
The bonobo/chimpanzee split was way later that the human/chimp split, Being a hybrid wouldn't put him closer to human.

And it's been well established that all his features are within normal variability of chimpanzees.

sirius0
2012-Sep-16, 01:26 PM
I am not suggesting that apes evolved from homo sapiens. Perhaps Oliver is a red herring in a discussion about this theory, but perhaps not. I guess I am suggesting or asking whether perhaps the genus Pan was still bipedal while the chimp bonobo split occurred. Perhaps they offshot from a Ramapithecus or similiar. Orangutans from an earlier hominid and gorillas even earlier. All of them locomote in a way that suggests former bipedalism. Not having a tail is not optimal for tree dwelling and also suggests a land dwelling past. Perhaps florensises was the most recent attempt by hominids to re-adapt to the trees. If they had succeeded they likely would have remained human but arboreal. Any how i am starting to feel like I am writing a fantasy story as this is not my field or passion, nor is it my theory just a couple of ideas I have added. Perhaps I can use them in a story. I could call it World of The Apes that would be original wouldn't it?