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Moose
2004-Nov-06, 02:05 AM
Cold Station 12. Part 2 of the Eugenics arc.

No spoilers for those who haven't seen it, but if you can measure the quality of an episode by the number of times you've checked your watch, I can tell you that I only glanced at my watch, in surprise, when the episode ended.

I'd been a little leery of the special guest novelty. That's usually the clearest sign a show has jumped the shark. Brent Spiner fits into the storyline like a glove. He's very convincing, and he's a rare TV villian who leaves you with the impression there's layer after layer of complexity to his character just waiting to be explored.

Is it possible to jump a shark backwards? Cause I think that's what Enterprise under Manny Coto just did.

ToSeek
2004-Nov-06, 03:13 AM
My wife and I are finding the violence a bit over-the-top sometimes - the whole Orion slave plot arc from last week seemed like ugly filler. But I agree that this episode was riveting and that Brent Spiner is brilliant.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-06, 04:35 AM
My wife and I are finding the violence a bit over-the-top sometimes - the whole Orion slave plot arc from last week seemed like ugly filler. But I agree that this episode was riveting and that Brent Spiner is brilliant.

Yeah, what's with the Dr. Soones, making Super-Human Life-Forms?

First Arik, with the Augments, and then, 200 years later, Noonien, with Lorr and Data!

What are they trying to do, Remake Humanity, in their OWN Image?

jt-3d
2004-Nov-06, 07:50 AM
Glad to hear it's a good one. I tape it and usually get around to watching it over my weekend (which starts on your Monday). Thanks for not spoiling anything as I simply can't resist any trek thread.

P.S. I thing the Orions are a lovely shade of green.

Moose
2004-Nov-06, 12:56 PM
There.

I've just changed the topic subject. JT, hopefully that'll be good enough to keep things pristine for you until you've had a chance to see it. I can't resist trek threads either.

jt-3d
2004-Nov-06, 10:09 PM
Thanks but don't worry about me. It's not fair for everybody to have to wait until the Great Me get's around to watching it. Discuss away, post a spoiler warning and if I get spoiled, it's my own fault.

mmm, green chicks.

Moose
2004-Nov-07, 02:31 AM
It's just too bad about Porthos... :o

Oops, I guess that should have been marked as a spoiler, right? :wink:

R.A.F.
2004-Nov-07, 02:01 PM
Speaking of spoilers...and no, there are not any in this post. :)

I've noticed that at the commercial breaks, they're showing clips from later in the show...in some cases, spoiling the plot...my wife and I find that VERY ANNOYING.

Moose
2004-Nov-07, 03:58 PM
Really? Wow. Makes me glad I'm watching an affiliate that doesn't.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-07, 06:44 PM
I see the second part in about 20 minutes. The first part, other than Spiners fantastic acting, i felt was among the dregs of last season. I hope this one is better.

I gave a more indepth reason on the other thread in babbling. After the episode ill give what i thought.

Note: i am not prejudging this episode i will take it with a neutral stance. I have likes some of this season, I felt that the marriage episode was absolutely fantastic. I really hope they return to that kind of writing. Spiners acting was fantastic in part 1. But everyone else returned to last season. T'pol grew absolutely none past the boob shots and petty wimpering she had all episode (sure there was the revenge at the end, but that was what, 3 minutes out of 45?). Archer reverted to a angry look on his face. You get the idea.

Like ive said, they need to fire all the writers from before and hire new or better ones. Also give the writers and producers/directors of the marriage episode and let them run the show.

johnwitts
2004-Nov-07, 07:56 PM
Speaking of spoilers...and no, there are not any in this post. :)

I've noticed that at the commercial breaks, they're showing clips from later in the show...in some cases, spoiling the plot...my wife and I find that VERY ANNOYING.

They're doing that at the start of BSG. (How come we're getting this in the UK before January?) I find that I can close my eyes for this bit, as they only show images, with a predictable dramatic musical score over the top. Another advantage of watching downloads of the show is that there are no advert breaks...

Humphrey
2004-Nov-07, 11:19 PM
This episode was better than Part 1. More drama and a bit more background and dialogue. But i have absolutely no clue why Spiner suddenly turns from absolute maniacle bad guy who seems to do anything to get his way, to basically a babbysitter who has too much on his hands.

The Augments were much more realistic this time and a few times i was cheering for them when they took the station or interogating the doctors friend. They showed a bit of their background and their motives for their anger. The addition of the humanized Augment was a good plot twist too.

Personally i think that this was one of a lows for the acting of Backula. Not much can be said except he has shown previously in the series he has a much greater ability than he showed here.

Like i said before, this is some of the best acting i have seen Spiner do in a long time on Trek. He was constrained too much as Data and this is obvious here. While his motives remain a absolute mysterie, at least he acted their lack very well. :-)

Finally you would think that a station that hgolds so many dangerous pathogens and augments would hvae a security force greater than 4 guards. (but i can accept that the augments took them all out before entering the room with the scientists).

I will accept that this certain story arc is better than the pervious season overall, it is not much more. We were given a taste of everything we were asking for then they pulled back from that leaving us wanting more. They need to make a effort to write well and include good plots. It seems that by this they can do one of the other. this one had a good plot and ideas. The previous episode (marriage) has good acting but not alot of plot (meaning storyline that involves some drama).

But this is a step, all be it a small one, in the correct direction.

AKONI
2004-Nov-10, 07:01 PM
This episode was better than Part 1. More drama and a bit more background and dialogue. But i have absolutely no clue why Spiner suddenly turns from absolute maniacle bad guy who seems to do anything to get his way, to basically a babbysitter who has too much on his hands.

But he's not a manicle bad guy. Think about it. He struggles for the Augments because he honestly believes they are the next step in human evolution. They get to live longer without disease. He views it as an end to suffering.

Also his concern for those tortured/killed in part two shows that his dialoge in Part 1 was truthful when he tells the Captain he honestly doesn't want any harm to befall the crew (his attempted escape was one of desperation).


I'm not saying he's right for doing all of this. I'm pointing out that he is not a manicle bad guy.

Moose
2004-Nov-13, 03:20 AM
Warning, possible spoilers, although I'll try to keep them to a minimum.

I have sort of mixed feelings about this episode. Overall, it was good, although not as exciting as episode two of this arc.

The burst capillaries around Archer's eyes were a nice touch (good science), and so was Archer's bluff. I'll give Coto points for a fast-one a Klingon could buy.

I do, however, have one major continuity beef, and one minor meh moment:

Klingon ships don't carry plot devices. Klingons don't NEED plot devices. Plot devices are for the WEAK and TIMID. And they don't carry what Soong used, either.

Humphrey called it in the other thread, I think, over the epilogue. I'm not sure I like how it was handled. A bit too obvious for my liking, I think. I would have preferred Soong getting to work specifically on curing genetic diseases, not quite backing down totally from his life's work the way he did.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-13, 04:01 AM
Due to the basketall game i will see the episode later in the weekend.
So ill chime in then. :-)

R.A.F.
2004-Nov-13, 10:21 PM
Humphrey called it in the other thread, I think, over the epilogue...A bit too obvious for my liking, I think.

Too obvious? ...heck he practically sang it! :)

Moose
2004-Nov-14, 12:08 AM
Humphrey called it in the other thread, I think, over the epilogue...A bit too obvious for my liking, I think.

Too obvious? ...heck he practically sang it! :)

*chuckle* True enough. How subtle can you be in a minute or two of film though?

But I meant the obviousness of his mental tack towards androids. Having multiple generations of the Soong family into androids is as much a cliché as is "all klingons are warriors" and "all ferrenghi are greedy".

I felt that an immediate mental switch just like *snaps fingers* that was out of character for Soong. He's never backed down from a challenge in his life, I can't see him starting there. Not entirely anyway. I can see him abandonning the "improve humanity" doctrine, in favor of a "use what I've learned to develop genetic cures for diseases", and thus remaining a thorough pain in conventional society's backside.

Although, just maybe that was entirely in character for him. [speculative paraphrase] "It's about the science, not the altruism" and/or "what I'm doing is beneficial to humanity, even if you can't see it"

Humphrey
2004-Nov-14, 06:02 PM
Hmm. Well i saw it last night. I was right about the ending. At least one wild guess i made came out to be true. :-)

They did keep the characters the same this time as last. Thats one good plus.

But im sad to say that this one is a bit worse than previous. The first went from mostly plot, to this one thats mostly action.

The being blown out of the tube into space was prety neat and i did find it cool that he actually came out prety harmed from it. And the Augments did confirm that Soong has changed over time from a humanity hating biologist to the exact oposite. But then again when someone wants to kill millions of your own kind, i would make a change too.

I did find it very werid that the Augmnet, malyck (sp?) was against the genetic engineering of his kind. At first it seemed that he was against the idea in the first place, but later on mentioned that he did not like the idea of them becoming docile. I just found this interesting that one who was genetically engineered himself, was so against the continual genetically enginerering of his bretheren. Possibly becuase he was afraid they would be stronger/better than him?

I really don't have much else to say other than question why the Klingons would build a ship with a very obvious flaw on a exposed part of the ship that anyone with a decent knoledge of their enemy would have.

Humots
2004-Nov-14, 09:43 PM
I have a question: how did Malik get from the Klingon ship to the Enterprise? Did he beam over, or what? Did I miss something obvious?

Humphrey
2004-Nov-14, 10:43 PM
Since Enterprise has no shields to stop people beaming up or down, thats what i assume. Then again why the enemy does not just beam all of them into space worries me about their skill at being evil.

AKONI
2004-Nov-15, 04:16 PM
Since Enterprise has no shields to stop people beaming up or down, thats what i assume. Then again why the enemy does not just beam all of them into space worries me about their skill at being evil.
I always thought the exact same thing. Wouldn't it make more sense to simply beam the entire bridge crew into space and then start working on the rest of the crew?

At least that's what I would do.

ToSeek
2004-Nov-15, 06:06 PM
Since Enterprise has no shields to stop people beaming up or down, thats what i assume. Then again why the enemy does not just beam all of them into space worries me about their skill at being evil.
I always thought the exact same thing. Wouldn't it make more sense to simply beam the entire bridge crew into space and then start working on the rest of the crew?

At least that's what I would do.

Can't do that - the episode would be over way too soon. And you just trashed all your leads. ;)

Moose
2004-Nov-15, 06:20 PM
Besides, while they're going after your bridge crew, you're going after their transporter operators. While they're trying to scratch together replacements for those, you simply retrieve your bridge crew, who've wisely donned breathers and goggles the moment the baddies have shown up.

Either that, or you keep them busy beaming "Bobo the Lifesign Simulator" dolls off the bridge, while you're busy directing the battle, safely ensconed near the galley and waste recycling controls.

AKONI
2004-Nov-15, 07:11 PM
Since Enterprise has no shields to stop people beaming up or down, thats what i assume. Then again why the enemy does not just beam all of them into space worries me about their skill at being evil.
I always thought the exact same thing. Wouldn't it make more sense to simply beam the entire bridge crew into space and then start working on the rest of the crew?

At least that's what I would do.

Can't do that - the episode would be over way too soon. And you just trashed all your leads. ;)
It's a good thing I don't write the show. Each episode would only be five minutes long with commercials.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-15, 07:25 PM
Besides, while they're going after your bridge crew, you're going after their transporter operators. While they're trying to scratch together replacements for those, you simply retrieve your bridge crew, who've wisely donned breathers and goggles the moment the baddies have shown up.


Either that, or you keep them busy beaming "Bobo the Lifesign Simulator" dolls off the bridge, while you're busy directing the battle, safely ensconed near the galley and waste recycling controls.And i assume thats how it will go about in real life if transporters ever become reality. (i know, i know of what happens when you get transported, but come on, lets play a little loose on the physics and tech here :-) )

They would build in ghost sygnals to hide or confuse the transporters. If they can probobly enought to make it extreamly hard to even touch a single person on the ship. Only pure luck would get someone.

But i think the cold of space would negate all use of a breathing device. Maybe have as a requirement spacesuits in all battles. Then a sudden depresurization does not matter even close to as much. Plus you could pump all of the atmosphere into containers and refocus life support power to weapons and energy.

Bob B.
2004-Nov-15, 09:11 PM
I saw parts 1 and 3 of this episode but missed part 2. Could somebody please give me a synopsis of what happened?

Humphrey
2004-Nov-15, 09:18 PM
Soong and the Enterprise race to Cold Station 12. Inside reside thousands of biological diseases and also many of the Augment embrios that Soong had left behind. Enterprise came in and disrupted the interrigetioon of one of the doctors. They were looking for acess to the Embrios.

Eventually after Dr. Phlox was captured and put inside a chamber that was about to fill with a deadly disease or two, did the Doctor (the friend of Phlox from a previous episode) relent and give up the key to the Embrios. As soong and the Augments fled the station they initiated a release of the biological agents all throught the station . The last scene has Archer moving throught a tub to recach a control module to rerout the release of them.

Bob B.
2004-Nov-16, 01:46 PM
Thanks, Humphrey.

Moose
2004-Nov-20, 02:02 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-20, 02:37 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

Tobin Dax
2004-Nov-20, 05:35 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-20, 05:55 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

HAVOC451
2004-Nov-20, 07:54 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Wow indeed.

N C More
2004-Nov-20, 01:30 PM
Well, I even "sorta liked" Enterprise when it stank! Now, all I can say is, "Praises to the powers that be for this resurrection"! :D

jt-3d
2004-Nov-20, 02:19 PM
Well, well, it looks like I have something to look forward to watching. I must avoid this thread until I get around to it. Sounds like they're making an effort to save the show though.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-20, 04:22 PM
I agree this episode was very well done. The best of the season, and i would argue along with the marriage episode, the best of the entire series. IT was again everything we asked for. For a second time in the show they moved beyond graphics and action and went strait for a storyline that involved interesting characters and character development.

Once again this shows that with the correct writers it has a very good posibility to become great. Once again i hope they keep this up. Please don't dissapoint me again.

ToSeek
2004-Nov-20, 06:09 PM
Excellent episode - I'm really looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-20, 07:37 PM
Excellent episode - I'm really looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

Well, let's see ...

Archer is Possessed ...

T'Pol is involved in an Inter-Faith Marriage ...

And, Trip, Still LOVES her!

Good Times ...

Tobin Dax
2004-Nov-20, 08:56 PM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-21, 03:14 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:P

Humphrey
2004-Nov-21, 04:00 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-21, 04:36 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

Sure ...

Why Not?

More than Enough Fun, for All!

:D

Tobin Dax
2004-Nov-21, 07:31 AM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

Sure ...

Why Not?

More than Enough Fun, for All!

:D

Hey, don't leave me out of the fun. :D

AKONI
2004-Nov-21, 08:13 AM
VERY well done.

Kudos to the new writers.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-21, 02:35 PM
The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

Sure ...

Why Not?

More than Enough Fun, for All!

:D

Hey, don't leave me out of the fun. :D

FUN!

So, Tobin Dax, did The Comment, Ever Register?

Tobin Dax
2004-Nov-22, 01:28 AM
[snip ;)]
So, Tobin Dax, did The Comment, Ever Register?

I got to thinking about it just a little before it happened. Of course, now that I look at my own comment on the matter, I can't help but be amused. 8) But I think the translated word pretty much told us so.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-22, 01:43 AM
[quote:eca25317e6="Moose"]The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

Sure ...

Why Not?

More than Enough Fun, for All!

:D

Hey, don't leave me out of the fun. :D

FUN!

So, Tobin Dax, did The Comment, Ever Register?

I got to thinking about it just a little before it happened. Of course, now that I look at my own comment on the matter, I can't help but be amused. But I think the translated word pretty much told us so.[/quote:eca25317e6]

Just for the Record, what I was Saying, was:

I wonder where Surak's Kahtrah, is Now ...

"Now", being the Star Trek: Nemesis Time Scale.

Hmmm ... Maybe Spock has it, How Much Space did McCoy, Have in his Head?

Tobin Dax
2004-Nov-22, 02:48 AM
[quote:5515561a4b="ZaphodBeeblebrox"][quote:5515561a4b="Moose"]The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

Sure ...

Why Not?

More than Enough Fun, for All!

:D

Hey, don't leave me out of the fun. :D

FUN!

So, Tobin Dax, did The Comment, Ever Register?

I got to thinking about it just a little before it happened. Of course, now that I look at my own comment on the matter, I can't help but be amused. But I think the translated word pretty much told us so.[/quote:5515561a4b]

Just for the Record, what I was Saying, was:

I wonder where Surak's Kahtrah, is Now ...

"Now", being the Star Trek: Nemesis Time Scale.

Hmmm ... Maybe Spock has it, How Much Space did McCoy, Have in his Head?[/quote:5515561a4b]

That "now" was a little cryptic, but I understand. I think for the answer we need to see what T'Pau does with it next week (assuming that is what we saw in the trailer).

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-22, 04:10 AM
[quote:80694195bf="Tobin Dax"][quote:80694195bf="ZaphodBeeblebrox"][quote:80694195bf="Moose"]The Forge, part 1.

No spoilers for now, just one word: Wow.

Yeah

Gotta wonder where You Know Who's You Know What, is You Know When ...

What the heck kind of comment is that to have rattling around in my head until I catch the rerun Sunday? ( :P :wink: )

[edit: spelling]

What?

I Hate spoiling things for People ...

This way, you All, just Think I'm NUTS!

Think? ;)

Seriously, I do appreciate not having something spoiled, but I know that all of the sudden as I'm watching this ep, it will dawn on me and I'll know what you meant. Until then, I have the cryptic phrase running around in my head.

[note: no offense meant here or above--just giving you a hard time about that wonderfully cryptic comment]

Yeah

It was, wasn't it ...

:POh can i play the quote game too? :-) :P

Sure ...

Why Not?

More than Enough Fun, for All!

:D

Hey, don't leave me out of the fun. :D

FUN!

So, Tobin Dax, did The Comment, Ever Register?

I got to thinking about it just a little before it happened. Of course, now that I look at my own comment on the matter, I can't help but be amused. But I think the translated word pretty much told us so.[/quote:80694195bf]

Just for the Record, what I was Saying, was:

I wonder where Surak's Kahtrah, is Now ...

"Now", being the Star Trek: Nemesis Time Scale.

Hmmm ... Maybe Spock has it, How Much Space did McCoy, Have in his Head?[/quote:80694195bf]

That "now" was a little cryptic, but I understand. I think for the answer we need to see what T'Pau does with it next week (assuming that is what we saw in the trailer).[/quote:80694195bf]

True

And Usually, while I don't much like Retroactive Continuity, that's One Thing, I can Really sink my Teeth into ...

Kinda like a Babylon 5 Element, since Spock is Half-Human, maybe someday, Another Human will Carry the Kahtrah of Surak, this Time, for Life ...

SeanF
2004-Nov-22, 03:19 PM
I was trying to pick out all the previous-Trek references in this episode.

Beside the obvious T'Pau, we had IDIC, Sehlats, "Remember," "The needs of the many...," Kiri-Kin-Tha's First Law of Metaphysics . . .

Am I missing any? :)

Oh, yes, the "T'Karath sanctuary" was mentioned in an episode of TNG ("Gambit") as an "underground sanctuary for one of the factions during the last civil war." :o

I understand that Garfield and Judith Reeves-Stevens, long-time Trek novelists and writers of this episode, are now staff writers on the show. I think that's A Good Thing. :)

Extravoice
2004-Nov-22, 07:09 PM
I was trying to pick out all the previous-Trek references in this episode.

Beside the obvious T'Pau, we had IDIC, Sehlats, "Remember," "The needs of the many...," Kiri-Kin-Tha's First Law of Metaphysics . . .

Am I missing any? :)



The inner eyelids is a reference to a TOS episode.

DataCable
2004-Nov-23, 07:28 AM
Beside the obvious T'Pau, we had IDIC, Sehlats, "Remember," "The needs of the many...," Kiri-Kin-Tha's First Law of Metaphysics . . .

Am I missing any? :)
"Who said 'Logic is the cement of our civilization, through which we ascend from chaos, using reason as our guide?'" (paired with your last item in Spock's post-resurrection quiz)

SeanF
2004-Nov-23, 02:41 PM
The inner eyelids is a reference to a TOS episode.
I can't believe I forgot that one! #-o


"Who said 'Logic is the cement of our civilization, through which we ascend from chaos, using reason as our guide?'" (paired with your last item in Spock's post-resurrection quiz)
I wondered about that. I specifically remembered the First Law of Metaphysics from Spock's quiz, but didn't remember if that other question was also one of them . . .

jt-3d
2004-Nov-24, 01:16 PM
Having now watched it I can only wonder what ya'll found so great about it. Maybe I missed something but I'm an ST fanboy so welcome back to the fold, ya'll.

BTW I'm curious, in the last ep when Cpt. Archer got blasted out into space due to the pressure dump, and he was covered in ice cicles, I guess there was some bad science there. Why the change of attitude?

Not that I'm complaining. More viewers mean more ratings and more ratings mean more shows. It's a good thing. Star Trek must live.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-24, 06:02 PM
I thought the Soong arc left an a relatively poor note. But this Vulcan one looks to be starting out very good.

Emphasis on stories insteasd of explosions. Good acting instead of chiche dialogue. Characters development instead of reset button (meaning the next episode people act like the previous weeks event never happened. Like what happened with the Soong arc. ). I like how they continually talk about the marriage episode. I hope they talk about this one in future episodes too.


edit: current ratings are prety low actually: According to Sci-fi wire: ""The Forge," the first episode of Star Trek: Enterprise's three-segment Vulcan story arc, scored only lukewarm ratings in its Nov. 19 airing, with a 1.9 rating, compared with 2.1 for the previous week's episode, "The Augments," on UPN, Zap2it.com reported."

ToSeek
2004-Nov-24, 06:12 PM
edit: current ratings are prety low actually: According to Sci-fi wire: ""The Forge," the first episode of Star Trek: Enterprise's three-segment Vulcan story arc, scored only lukewarm ratings in its Nov. 19 airing, with a 1.9 rating, compared with 2.1 for the previous week's episode, "The Augments," on UPN, Zap2it.com reported."

Moving it to Friday night can't have helped. That's what killed classic Trek.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-24, 06:35 PM
Im not so sure. SG-1 Seems to be doing very well in that timeslot. I think it just depends on the day.

But i do aggreee that the Wed. Timeslot was far, far better.

John Dlugosz
2004-Nov-24, 07:05 PM
Since I got Tivo, there is no turning back. I watch shows when I want, and have a vague idea of when they are sent to me.

I prefer NOT to watch it "live", a.k.a. "when it's downloading", because I can't skip forward past the interruptions.

So, will the future trend be toward scheduling shows when they don't conflict with something else that people want to record, as opposed to being on to be watched at a particular time? If shows were on earlier, not during prime time, they would be ready and waiting when I got home from work.

Also, showing something twice at different times will get viewers to watch who would otherwise have conflicts. I've seen WB doing this already, re-showing their main shows on Sunday.

--John

johnwitts
2004-Nov-26, 10:54 PM
Well, this weeks episode, 'Awakenings' was a corker. If people missed it then they missed part 2 of a great story. Plenty of Trek back story being made here. Seems like someone has been listening to the fans and they've got off their lazy butts and actually watched a few OS episodes. Well worth the watch.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-27, 02:04 AM
They are showing it here Sunday night. Damit! I cant wait . :-)

Moose
2004-Nov-27, 03:38 AM
Yeah, tonight's episode was good. I think last week's episode was better, but tonight's was definitely worth watching.

But I can say this about next week: Oh boy! Captain Shran! :D

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Nov-27, 07:21 AM
Yeah, tonight's episode was good. I think last week's episode was better, but tonight's was definitely worth watching.

But I can say this about next week: Oh boy! Captain Shran! :D

Yeah, I LOVE Jeffrey Coombs!

"That was my Last Weyoon ..."

Tobin Dax
2004-Nov-27, 09:18 AM
First off, thanks to johnwitts, as I logged on here just after 7pm CST and so I was able to catch the ep tonight.

Tonight's episode was pretty good, though I do agree that last week's was better. I'm thrilled about next week (well, and the arc in about three more). I've been an Andorian fan ever since the DS9 Relaunch novels came out. :D That, and Jeffrey Combs is a great actor to watch, whether he be Vorta, Ferengi, or blue. (Suzie Plakson was a plus, as well, when she was one. :D 8-[ )

Moose
2004-Dec-04, 04:11 PM
Okay, last night's episode: Again, wow, though a little less wow-worthy than the first episode of this arc.

Combs does another magnificent job, but man, he's one angry blue-skin right now. He only showed a hint of the panache he commanded throughout the Xindi arc. The panache that makes him so likable. But, if you're writing for a species best described as erratic, it's not a bad idea to make them erratic, at least some of the time. *chuckle*

I get the impression that Andorians have no real concept of "personal space". Take one big step back, Shran. Please.

It also sounds like the writers are planning to tone down Archer's emotionalism a notch or three.

They pulled another WTF moment at the end, but at least this one makes sense.

I was right. That was Bruce Gray playing Surak (confirmed by the IMDB). Not a bad choice at all.

PeterFab
2004-Dec-04, 05:11 PM
I also thought that Combs did a great job, as usual. And it was certainly a very good episode, and a really good three-parter.

And the ending was also interesing, to say the least.

ToSeek
2004-Dec-04, 05:58 PM
Do any women work for the Vulcan High Command? In any capacity?

HAVOC451
2004-Dec-04, 06:57 PM
I enjoyed these last three episodes. It should have been four episodes to better broaden the characters, but all in all it was pretty good.
More! More!

jt-3d
2004-Dec-04, 07:24 PM
Do any women work for the Vulcan High Command? In any capacity?

Well somebody has to make that bland tomato soup that Vulcans like so I'd guess yes.

The Supreme Canuck
2004-Dec-04, 08:49 PM
Well, near the end, T'Pau was dressed up nice and was wearing the same brooch as one of the members of the High Command, so I guess she's a member. I think. Anyone else see this?

ToSeek
2004-Dec-04, 10:21 PM
Well, near the end, T'Pau was dressed up nice and was wearing the same brooch as one of the members of the High Command, so I guess she's a member. I think. Anyone else see this?

Yes, but that was "after the revolution." I don't think I saw a single Vulcan female in the building when V'Las was in charge, neither bigwigs nor peons.

ToSeek
2004-Dec-04, 10:24 PM
Yeah, tonight's episode was good. I think last week's episode was better, but tonight's was definitely worth watching.

But I can say this about next week: Oh boy! Captain Shran! :D

Yeah, I LOVE Jeffrey Coombs!

"That was my Last Weyoon ..."

According to the episode guide, Coombs/Shran is in most of the forthcoming episodes.

Moose
2004-Dec-04, 10:54 PM
Star Trek: Andorian? W00t! I'd watch that. =D>

The Supreme Canuck
2004-Dec-04, 11:10 PM
Well, near the end, T'Pau was dressed up nice and was wearing the same brooch as one of the members of the High Command, so I guess she's a member. I think. Anyone else see this?

Yes, but that was "after the revolution." I don't think I saw a single Vulcan female in the building when V'Las was in charge, neither bigwigs nor peons.

Ah. Quite true. Bit odd, now that I think of it.

Bob B.
2004-Dec-05, 12:18 AM
Well, near the end, T'Pau was dressed up nice and was wearing the same brooch as one of the members of the High Command, so I guess she's a member. I think. Anyone else see this?
Didn't they say that the High Command had been dissolved?

The Supreme Canuck
2004-Dec-05, 12:51 AM
Oh. Right.

Maybe they meant the old one. Someone needs to be in charge, right?

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Dec-05, 12:55 AM
Do any women work for the Vulcan High Command? In any capacity?

Well somebody has to make that bland tomato soup that Vulcans like so I'd guess yes.

NO ONE, works for The Vulcan High Command, anymore ...

In ANY Capacity!

Bob B.
2004-Dec-05, 05:10 AM
Oh. Right.

Maybe they meant the old one. Someone needs to be in charge, right?
Surely there would have to be some new ruling body to take the place of the High Command. And, yes, I agree it looked like T'Pau had gained some position of authority in the new command structure.

SpacedOut
2004-Dec-05, 01:18 PM
Surely there would have to be some new ruling body to take the place of the High Command. And, yes, I agree it looked like T'Pau had gained some position of authority in the new command structure.

That would make sense based on things we've learned in the past, err, I mean future, uh... you know what I mean. :wink:

Honestly, I'm really glad that they've decided to bring the show back into the Trek time line as we know it - and they've been able to do it in a very interesting way.

SeanF
2004-Dec-05, 10:14 PM
Surely there would have to be some new ruling body to take the place of the High Command. And, yes, I agree it looked like T'Pau had gained some position of authority in the new command structure.
That would make sense based on things we've learned in the past, err, I mean future, uh... you know what I mean. :wink:

Yeah.

But couldn't Ms. Zediker have at least tried to imitate Ms. Lovsky's accent? ::sigh::

ToSeek
2004-Dec-06, 02:24 AM
Surely there would have to be some new ruling body to take the place of the High Command. And, yes, I agree it looked like T'Pau had gained some position of authority in the new command structure.
That would make sense based on things we've learned in the past, err, I mean future, uh... you know what I mean. :wink:

Yeah.

But couldn't Ms. Zediker have at least tried to imitate Ms. Lovsky's accent? ::sigh::

Or even said "time of the beginning" or "kroykah" just once?

Demigrog
2004-Dec-06, 04:42 PM
I caught part of the first Vulcan arc episode over thanksgiving, as my Dad apparently likes Enterprise. I wanted to retch... if they intended to screw up the established character and history of Vulcan, they could not have done a better job. For crying out loud, make the writers read Spock's World and Strangers from the Sky! A reset button sounds like a very good idea to me...

Moose
2004-Dec-06, 04:52 PM
You want Enterprise to follow a lower precedence of canon? Should they follow the bad books too? Fanfic? Where would you draw the line?

Demigrog
2004-Dec-06, 05:13 PM
You want Enterprise to follow a lower precedence of canon? Should they follow the bad books too? Fanfic? Where would you draw the line?

Spock's World has millions of copies in print, probably the most widely read of the novels. Diane Duane is probably the best of the Trek writers, though A.C. Crispen is up there. Further, the early Trek novels (pre-TNG, basically) established an extremely consistent universe and very good characters. The excellent continuity and writing in the novels would have been a great place to start for Enterprise.

I'm a Trek fan entirely because of TOS and the novels, so I'm all for making them canon and burning most of TNG and beyond. :)

The ultimate irony here is that they hired Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens, among the worst of the novelists in the Trek universe, to write for Enterprise. After Memory Prime, Federation, and Prime Directive, I am not suprised at all that they screwed up the Vulcans so badly.
:cry:

ToSeek
2004-Dec-06, 06:45 PM
You want Enterprise to follow a lower precedence of canon? Should they follow the bad books too? Fanfic? Where would you draw the line?

Spock's World has millions of copies in print, probably the most widely read of the novels. Diane Duane is probably the best of the Trek writers, though A.C. Crispen is up there. Further, the early Trek novels (pre-TNG, basically) established an extremely consistent universe and very good characters. The excellent continuity and writing in the novels would have been a great place to start for Enterprise.


But how much of that would have had to have been explained?

I can live with continuity lapses (except maybe for drastic ones) in the cause of a good story, which I thought this one way.

Demigrog
2004-Dec-06, 07:49 PM
You want Enterprise to follow a lower precedence of canon? Should they follow the bad books too? Fanfic? Where would you draw the line?

Spock's World has millions of copies in print, probably the most widely read of the novels. Diane Duane is probably the best of the Trek writers, though A.C. Crispen is up there. Further, the early Trek novels (pre-TNG, basically) established an extremely consistent universe and very good characters. The excellent continuity and writing in the novels would have been a great place to start for Enterprise.


But how much of that would have had to have been explained?

I can live with continuity lapses (except maybe for drastic ones) in the cause of a good story, which I thought this one way.

My point is that if they are going to hire novelists for writers, they should have hired the good ones--especially for a Vulcan arc.

Pardon my passion on the issue; its a pet peeve of mine.

Moose
2004-Dec-06, 07:56 PM
My point is that if they are going to hire novelists for writers, they should have hired the good ones--especially for a Vulcan arc.

That I agree with.