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Gillianren
2013-Feb-03, 06:42 PM
First off, no one suggest switching to Chrome. I tried that; I couldn't get my bookmarks to import, and I don't like the skin, and I can't figure out how to change that. I use the browsers I do because I like them. And if the expression "app" comes up, I shall be very upset.

Opera isn't opening. Hasn't since yesterday. I'd try opening it, the page would appear to open, and then I would get a message that it had crashed. Would I like to send a report?

I've sent about eight reports, a few of them with fairly detailed information in the "comments" section. I ran all my anti-malware programs. I've even left my computer off overnight in the hopes that it would come to its senses in the morning; it didn't. The only advice friends have given me thus far is "switch to Chrome," which is a solution but not the one I want. I like Opera, and I want it to work. Why isn't it working?

And for the record, what I was doing when it stopped working was reading a Cracked.com article. I wasn't even touching the keyboard or the mouse at the moment.

Solfe
2013-Feb-03, 07:15 PM
Should you ever think of downloading Chrome, poke yourself in the eye until the feeling goes away. :)

It sounds like Opera is "stuck". You visited a website and it caused a problem. Opera crashed. Now Opera attempts to open that page when you restart. Not fun.

1) If you have Opera pinned to the taskbar, try selecting an option under "Speed Dial" or under "Tasks". Select something boring, such as "New Tab" or "News Portal".

2) From the start menu, right click the Icon and select Troubleshoot compatibility and after the little wizard runs, select "try recommended settings".

Either one of these options doesn't really do anything other than checking the software for issues or directing you to a different page. You can do them both. Neither should "do anything" to your saved preferences, unless a plug in is a bad for you system and had a preference saved (and you care).

Trebuchet
2013-Feb-03, 07:43 PM
If Opera is "stuck" as Solfe says, trying to reopen the same site when it starts up, would it help to start it by clicking on a URL to another site, assuming it's the default browser? Or disconnect from the internet entirely before starting it?

I actually use Chrome and like it. My wife uses FireFox, as did I until Chrome made its appearance by piggybacking on a download of Google Earth.

jokergirl
2013-Feb-03, 08:59 PM
If it is stuck in that way, disconnecting from the internet and then killing the offending tab might work.

I finally switched from Opera to FF a few months ago, after the latest update made all kinds of pages break on my end. INCLUDING Opera's own support forum.
I don't like FF all that much, but it works and is better than the remaining alternatives, who all belong to more evil companies. *sigh*

Good luck.

GeorgeLeRoyTirebiter
2013-Feb-03, 09:36 PM
I checked the Opera forums, and it looks like everyone but me is having this problem. It seems to have something to do with the new updater in version 12.13.

Some users say they got it running again by temporarily renaming the "widgets" folder. It's located in \Documents and Settings\[username]\Local Settings\Application Data\Opera\Opera\ in XP, or \Users\[username]\AppData\Local\Opera\Opera\ in Vista and Win7. You'll need to enable "show hidden files and folders" in the Windows folder options first.

Moose
2013-Feb-03, 09:56 PM
First off, no one suggest switching to Chrome.

Firefox? (runs!)

I'd try the "disconnect from internet" advice given in thread. If it works, you might want to search your preferences page and turn off the option (no idea what it's called in Opera) that tries to restore a crashed session.

Failing all else, you may need to uninstall and reinstall Opera, which will be unfun, but less unfun than having to consult condescending other-browser-users (like me... ahem.)

Solfe
2013-Feb-03, 11:34 PM
You may want to step down and get an older version of Opera -

http://www.opera.com/browser/download/?os=windows&list=all

Gillianren
2013-Feb-03, 11:40 PM
Installing the older version worked! Thank you! [Turns off Firefox, switches browsers happily]

Solfe
2013-Feb-04, 12:21 AM
Nice! Just make sure you have two or more browsers on your computer at all times.

Trebuchet
2013-Feb-04, 03:08 AM
Nice! Just make sure you have two or more browsers on your computer at all times.

That would be two in addition to IE. I had it open when I didn't want the other day. What a mess.

Inclusa
2013-Feb-04, 03:36 AM
Does anyone use Waterfox? It has way less plugins than FF, but it is substantially faster, I believe.

Gillianren
2013-Feb-04, 03:53 AM
That would be two in addition to IE. I had it open when I didn't want the other day. What a mess.

There are a few websites I use regularly that don't like Opera, so I keep Firefox for them. Alas for poor Graham, his bank's website doesn't like Firefox, either--he has to use IE. It's a dreadful, dreadful piece of software.

Solfe
2013-Feb-04, 04:41 AM
I don't use IE and I am rather opinionated about it. I don't even check my websites for IE, either for looks or web hits. I haven't tried Waterfox, but maybe I will tomorrow.

As of right now, I used Firefox daily and check my websites against:

Firefox,
Opera,
Chrome,
Midori,
RockMelt,
SeaMonkey,
Konqueror,
Epiphany,
Safari,
Netscape Navigator,
and Netscape Communicator.

From my webstats, I see that Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera and Safari iPhone are the top browsers. If I turn off the filter for IE, I see it ranks sixth, at 1.89% of my traffic.

This is entirely scientific, I have a warning up that effectively says "If you IE, I would rather you didn't come to my site." Clearly, the message has been received. :)

pantaz
2013-Feb-04, 10:44 PM
There are a few websites I use regularly that don't like Opera, so I keep Firefox for them. ...
Same here. I'm still using version 11.52 on my XP laptop -- anything newer crashes repeatedly. My Win7 PC runs version 11.64 very happily.

Firefox is my second choice. After all these years, I'm surprised they haven't made it easier to customize keyboard shortcuts and toolbars. Actually, IIRC, keyboard shortcuts can't be modified (I haven't checked if that remains true with the latest versions.)

The ease of customizing keyboard shortcuts is one of the primary reasons I love Opera. I've always had problems with hand/wrist/arm pain after using any kind of pointing device (mouse, trackball, touchpad) for extended periods. I can easily navigate any page with just a few keystrokes. Well, anything except Adobe Flash pages.

Trebuchet
2013-Feb-05, 01:22 AM
Ahh, thank you for mentioning Adobe Flash. I was having difficulty remembering what the heck it was that was causing all my Chrome crashes.

HenrikOlsen
2013-Feb-05, 09:07 AM
Though it is really nice that all Microsoft systems comes with a preinstalled program for downloading internet browsers. :D

billslugg
2013-Feb-09, 02:56 AM
I use a bunch of browsers and no antivirus or firewall at all. I start by reformatting and then do a clean installation. I configure just like I want everything and then freeze it with Deep Freeze. It cost me $45 each, one time, for my boxes. If I need to make a change to my favorites or download a new program it needs to be briefly thawed out. Once frozen no one can make any changes. If anything locks up or I pick up some malware I just reboot. Back to the properly configured state. It sure beats dealing with antivirus programs which slow me down, miss a lot of malware, constantly need upgrading. Any work I do that needs saving is saved in the cloud. There is nothing of value saved on my hard drives. I am immune from malware making permanent changes to my system but not from say stealing addresses and forwarding itself to others. Also, there have been some recent cases of malware that could obtain high enough clearance to change the so called "frozen" portion of the drive. All in all, I prefer to run without any protection and just reboot now and then.

Gillianren
2013-Feb-09, 03:09 AM
Well, I think that's an awful way of running your computer--especially keeping in mind the hijacked computer problem. But that's your choice.

Solfe
2013-Feb-09, 12:35 PM
Well, I think that's an awful way of running your computer--especially keeping in mind the hijacked computer problem. But that's your choice.

I don't use anti-virus or firewalls either. It is easier to make backups. In 12 years or so of tech support, I have never heard of anyone say "Gee! That software saved my bacon!". In fact, I have seen people do some really screwed up stuff because they thought they were safe. The issue is that if the $50.00 software fails, you don't generally get any meaningful tech support. The company is not inclined to help you save your stuff, only get you back to operational. That means if you don't have a back up, you are dead. If you aren't hot on making back ups, use a service like Dropbox and store your files there (2-5 GB of storage space is free).

Save the $50.00 bucks. In four years, you have a $200.00 down payment on a new computer. If you are really worried, download the free version of anti-virus software.

Gillianren
2013-Feb-09, 05:47 PM
That's what I use--the free version. It has already saved me quite a lot; it means I don't have to seek help whenever something goes wrong with my computer. You may note that one of the first things I did in this particular situation was run my virus scanner. Of course, it was a software problem with my browser, but if it had been a virus, the program I have probably would have solved the problem.

Solfe
2013-Feb-09, 06:41 PM
I have identified a whole class of people who receive a warning of a virus and still clicked the link because they thought "capable of detection" implied "capable of correction".

In a particularly bad cases, the user got an email with an image attached, the image triggered the virus warning and they ignored that warning. After I fixed the system, they logged into their email, accessed that email again and clicked through all the warnings a second time.

Something sounded very wrong to me so I asked them to open the email for me. It turns out that the virus itself threw up a virus warning and clicking on anything after that first click disabled the anti-viral software. The user STILL wanted to ignore fake warning (which was over the top and poorly worded), which really bothers me because it isn't a computer problem at that point.

Aside from fixing that one PC three times, I found two other people that week who had the exact same AV software who encountered the same virus. It appears that some viruses will target the AV software itself.

Gillianren
2013-Feb-09, 06:57 PM
Oh, I never click anything in e-mails if I don't recognize the sender. And most of the people who send me e-mails with things in them are sending me links to articles, so I recognize the place I'm being sent--I may not always agree with the sources, but I know they're real and reputable.

Then again, my web habits as a whole are fairly boring. One of the folders in my bookmarks is labeled "Regularly Checked," and it's the sites I look at first thing in the morning, every day. I don't play many games, and I don't play any online games. I don't watch videos. I have a handful of websites that I read, and that's pretty much it. However, I don't much trust "oh, I'll just save this to a cloud and not worry about my own computer," because I remember the time the Amazon cloud went down for days. Of course, I didn't have internet at the time anyway, because I was at a con that weekend. Still. If I protect my own computer, I limit the risks to my data to problems I'm having personally.

HenrikOlsen
2013-Feb-09, 07:24 PM
Oh, I never click anything in e-mails if I don't recognize the sender.
Which unfortunately isn't a very good criterion for whether contents is clean as it's trivial to fake the sender of an email, and it takes a second to find a list of your friends.

billslugg
2013-Feb-09, 11:31 PM
To me the issue is not protection from malware but is the ability to get back to the "should". I don't really care what the malware does to me as long as I can get my computer clean again. The only thing that would be of consequence would be if the malware could somehow cost me out of pocket dollars by stealing credit card numbers or passwords.

There is no antivirus software that can always repair the damage by malware. Malware can change things that are not reversed by a Windows system restore. Antivirus programs are helpless against newly minted malware. If you are relying on an antivirus program to get you back to a desired state then you are being fooled. It will not always work. I used to run the latest antivirus stuff and about once a year I had to take the box into the computer store and have the drive reformatted and XP reinstalled. At that time I had no recovery disc. When I upgraded to Win 7 I bought a standalone copy of Win 7 and then was able to reformat and reload all by myself. When that got tiresome I bought a copy of Deep Freeze and was then able to restore to the "should" simply by rebooting.

When you use a credit card, or an e-mail address or a password you have no idea if, when or where that information is being stored on your hard drive. The bad guys know and they take advantage of it. Only by resetting your box to the "factory install" state can you be absolutely sure that no compromising information is on your drive.

If I need to buy something, I reboot, buy it and reboot again. During the time between reboots, I had no contact with unknown sites or e-mail and there is no way the information could be compromised. After rebooting I know, for a fact, that the information is gone.

I am safer without antivirus software than you are with it.

Solfe
2013-Feb-10, 12:25 AM
I am the annoying person who has to be "significantly different". I don't have an OS installed my hard drive. I run my OS's off of SD cards and USB sticks. This way I can claim to run a half dozen OS's with no partitioning. The claim is equally valid and very wrong at the same time. My motto should be "Think... what."

Plus, if I physically lose my computer, I still have the OS and files. Viruses make me shrug.

My wife's windows 7 machine is another story. I run daily cloud backups of files and weekly backups of everything else. My children take a surprising number of videos and photos. I am going to have to talk to them about that or beg my wife for a farm of hard drives soon.

Gillianren
2013-Feb-10, 12:41 AM
Which unfortunately isn't a very good criterion for whether contents is clean as it's trivial to fake the sender of an email, and it takes a second to find a list of your friends.

True enough. However, I don't think any viruses yet have claimed to be articles from Cracked, the Onion, or Slate!


After rebooting I know, for a fact, that the information is gone.

Perhaps people who know more about computers than I do can say, but I thought "reboot" just meant turning your computer off and then on again. In which case this is wrong.

billslugg
2013-Feb-10, 01:22 AM
Yes, reboot simply means turning the computer off and then on again. Your computer retrieves the last "state" that existed just prior to shutdown. If there were changes made, such as a new download or a new "favorite" in a browser, those changes will be loaded into RAM from your hard drive. This is not the case when you purchase and install DeepFreeze. This software maintains a permanent and frozen image of your hard drive as you set it up the day you bought and configured your computer. Whenever you boot up, the computer goes back to that "Day 1" image and loads it into RAM. It makes no difference what you did on the computer yesterday. If you wrote a note to yourself and saved it to a file it will be gone. With DeepFreeze, your computer always goes back to the original configuration. Your hard drive is essentially "read only". Nothing can be changed on it. Not by you or by malware or anybody. It is like getting a fresh copy of your software and desired configurations every time you reboot. I often surf questionable web sites and pick up all kinds of trash. Changes to my screen icons, new undesired taskbars, you would not believe the stuff that appears from nowhere and plops itself onto my box. When I get tired of it I just hit the off button and then restart it. I am then back to "factory fresh".

Now, you might ask: "How do I save anything?" There is a procedure for that. You must know that you want to change something before you boot up to a session where you want to make changes. You are running along and you think: "Hey, I want to download that new app." Go ahead and download it and try it out. If you find that it crashes you or is garbage, then just reboot and it goes away. If you decide you want to have it permanently then you must do that in the NEXT session. It CANNOT be done in this session. You simply hold the shift key down, click on the DeepFreeze icon, click on "Reboot thawed" and then shut down and restart. Now you are unprotected! Go straight to the desired site and download the software. As soon as you have it configured, shut down and reboot. You will start up frozen again and with the desired changes permanently etched on your record. You must be very careful not to forget you are "thawed". I have done this and picked up malware and then there was no way to recover. I had to reformat.

It is somewhat of a PITA since you must shutdown and startup and shutdown any time you want to add a favorite to your browser. I keep a handwritten list by my box and consolidate those kind of changes so I can do several at a time.

There is another way to manage changes. You can define a location that DOES save data without being thawed. I have one case of this. My shop computer needs to handle all of my customer interactions, maybe ten or fifteen a day. I have the Quickbooks data go straight to a thawed directory. Everything else on the computer is frozen however. All my QB stuff is saved automatically. If a piece of malware was smart enough, it would save itself into my QB directory, but so far I have not heard of this happening. All of my routine writings and photos are stored off site so I don't have to reboot for any of that stuff.