PDA

View Full Version : The Nine Worlds



Glom
2004-Nov-13, 07:50 PM
If the Nine Worlds were ever incorporated into the Stargate universe, what would they be like?

To review for those who don't know, the Nine Worlds, which comprise the Cosmos in Norse mythology, are:

Asgard- world of the Aesir, the warrior gods. Asgard is surrounded by a high wall of tightly fitting stone blocks. In the middle of Asgard is the plain of Ida, where the gods convene for meetings. Asgard lies at the root of the World Tree Yggdrasil.
Vanaheim- land of Vanir, the culture gods. Vanaheim is located inside Asgard.
Alfheim- land of the light elves. It is the palace of the god Freyr. The elves are seen much in true Norse mythology.
Midgard- world of men. It is the fortess built by the gods to protect men.
Jotunheim- land of the giants. It is the home to the frost giants and the rock giants. It is ruled by the king frost giant Thrym. It is seperated from Asgard by the river Iving.
Nidavellir- land of the dwarfs. The dwarfs in Norse mythology were craftsmand as the cliche goes.
Svartalfheim- land of the dark elves.
Nifleheim- world of the dead. Nifleheim means house of mists and is full of icy fogs and mists, darkness and cold. It lies under the third root of Yggdrasil.
Muspelheim- land of the fire giants. It is a flaming torrid region surrounded by fire. It ruled by Surt.First, I start by thinking of this mythology as covering our galaxy and its satellites.

I reckon that it is the satellites that define Asgard, which includes the galaxy of Ida, probably the LMC, where the Asgard homeworld was located. I reckon that Vanaheim is one of the smaller satellites accessed using the eighth chevron.

Yggdrasil is probably some kind of hub of the stargate network in the yellow realm (versus the blue realm in Pegasus) and can only be accessed through its roots, ie through stargates on Jotunheim, somewhere in Asgard and Nifleheim.

More later.

Glom
2004-Nov-13, 10:48 PM
Continuing from earlier...

I think the Nox fit the description of elves, at least as envisaged in Tolkein. They are advanced, almost magical in appearance. They are benevolent. Yet they are modest. They commune with nature with the help of their technology (throwing the luddite philosophy through the incinerator). I reckon that the Nox seen so far are light elves and the Nox world in Alfheim. That would mean that some other society of the Nox are the dark elves. Perhaps they live in a Dyson forest. That would be cool.

Jotunheim? That has to be the world of the giant aliens. I mean, the big ugly guy looked like a sure candidate from the frost giant king Thrym. I've always wondered if the giant aliens were perhaps the Furlings. They are advanced. They hate the Goa'uld.

The dwarfs? Of this, I am unsure. If the Asgard are the Aeser and Vaner, the Nox are the elves and the Furlings are the Jotuns, then it would seem only natural that the Ancients would be the dwarfs. Either that or the Ancients are the fire giants but that makes less sense. It makes far more sense that the Ancients, who built the stargates, big honkin' space guns and other cool things should be the dwarfs. It's just that I can't see the Ancients as short and hairy munchkins.

The question is that given that the Ancients are the dwarfs, what would be Nidavellir? We could say Atlantis but that isn't in the yellow chevron territories. It could be any number of worlds.

That leaves Niflheim and Muspelheim. Niflheim could be either Erabus or Tartarus, probably Tartarus, the second level of hell.

M_Welander
2004-Nov-13, 11:14 PM
If we're going to improve on the Stargate interpretation of Norse mythology (which I think is a great idea, Glom), one thing I would like is to see the names spelled right.

Here's my thinking: The show use an English butchered version of the proper Norse names. Now, since the Norse culture is considered (partially) based on impressions the people got from meeting the Asgard, we can be pretty sure the names used in Norse mythology come from the Asgard. Yet, in the show the Asgard themselves use the English misspelled names instead, which suggest the Asgard have picked their own names from Englishmen, who in turn have picked up them from the Norse, who in turn invented their own names. In the context of the show, that makes no sense.

Now, don't get me wrong - the Asgard can call themselves whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, as long as I just get more Stargate episodes to watch. :) But, since we are improving the show already...

Anyway, a few examples to demonstrate my point:

Asgard should be called either "Asgård" or "Åsgard"
Thor should be called "Tor"
... and so on.

---

As for Nifelheim being Tartarus, I have a hard time seing that, considering Nifelheim is primarily identified with snow and ice - rather unlike the popular concept of hell.

Glom
2004-Nov-13, 11:28 PM
The same problem happens with Egyptians gods. Sokar instead of Seker. Apophis instead of Apep. Ra instead of Re. In general, they tend to use the Greek names rather than the genuine Egyptian names.

M_Welander
2004-Nov-13, 11:34 PM
One thing I'd like to see a Stargate interpretation of is what would be the Asgard civil war, the Vaner conflict. Well, that is, some reference to it, since it happened a long time ago, probably around the time the Asgard started to leave their home world.

Lycus
2004-Nov-14, 01:10 AM
Okay, I just want to play too :) , so I would like to see them do a rendition of Ragnarok.

They can introduce a couple more Asgard characters, like Balder (perhaps a highly respected Asgard diplomat) and Odin (the leading figure of the High Council). A disgraced and embittered Loki escapes, uses a Zat to murder Balder by disintegration (I know that in the legend he tricks someone else into killing him, but I'm just trying to keep it simple for now), and makes off with information regarding the Ancient weapon that Jack made for them. He tries to use it to strike a deal with Fifth (who wants it so he can develop a defense), but his plan backfires when Fifth decides to just wipe out the Asgard. The biggest conflict in the Replicator War breaks out, ending in the apparent destruction of Asgard civilization and the permanent (and tragic) deaths of Odin, Heimdall and Thor. But also the end of Fifth and the Replicators.

However, SG-1 later helps rescue a small group of Asgard who have awoken only to find their people destroyed. They are the results of Heimdall's final experiments, Asgard that can sexually reproduce. Balder actually participated in the experiment before his murder and allowed Heimdall to copy his consciousness into one of them. He will now have to lead the new Asgard on the long road toward rebuilding their civilization.

Not only do I think an arc like this would be dramatic and have some good action to it, I also think it's important to (like with the Tollan) remove one of SG-1's superpowerful allies from the equation and force Earth to be that much more independent. I also think it would be interesting if the Asgard had never heard of the Raganarok legend before, never realizing that the primitive humans that they touched had predicted their demise.

Humphrey
2004-Nov-14, 05:14 AM
Wow Lycus. Thats a really good storyline. I hope mit comes true :-)

eburacum45
2004-Nov-14, 09:34 AM
When do we get to see the equivalent of Ratatosk?

http://www.multiart.nu/ratatosk/bilder/ratatosk_col_2.gif

Lycus
2004-Nov-14, 11:34 PM
Wow Lycus. Thats a really good storyline. I hope mit comes true :-)
Thanks, Humphrey. :)

I love making up story arcs for shows that I like, even though they never come true.

AstroSmurf
2004-Nov-15, 10:41 AM
Just a note - I know zilch about SG1 "mythology", but I do know that it's the land (or planet in this case) that's called "Asgård" - the inhabitants would be the Asar (or Aesir as it's usually written in English)

Norse mythology has quite a few themes they could pick up on: The Norns ('goddesses' of fate), the golden apples of youth that the Aesir use, the rainbow bridge Bifrost that's guarded by Heimdall...

M_Welander
2004-Nov-15, 12:02 PM
That's very true, AstroSmurf, but from what I've read in other discussions on the SG-1 interpretation of Norse mythology, the Asgård/As discrepancy is so obvious and huge that it's simply ignored in such discussions. Because there's absolutely no way around it other than accepting that it's just a big misstake by the writers, most people seem to shrug and move on to more productive and less apparent mythological issues. :)

But, there's no harm in repeating it anyway, for newcomers to the show who might not know anything about Norse mythology.

M_Welander
2004-Nov-15, 12:15 PM
A side note to the spelling subtopic: I suspect some of you English speakers don't see what the big difference is between "Asgard" and "Asgård" or between "Thor" and "Tor". A tiny little ring or a tiny little 'h' doesn't make much of a difference, does it?

Actually, it doesn't - not for the spelling. Everyone recognizes the words with the different spelling. But the tiny difference in spelling makes a world of difference in pronounciation - in fact, a difference so large I doubt you'd recognize them as the same words, should you hear them only spoken out of context.

To continue my previous example:

"Asgard" is pronounced "assguard" in the show. The proper pronounciation of "Asgård" is closer to "aasgourd".

"Thor" is pronounced "thour" in the show. The proper pronounciation of "Tor" is closer to "toor".

Glom
2004-Nov-15, 05:43 PM
Wow! I've found another connection.

The Norns are the fates that spin the thread of life for everyone. Similarly, the Ancients are the ones who created human life on Earth and who knows how many of the others (we get the distinct impression that the Ancients predate the Asgard for one).

The Norns also sprinkle water upon the roots of Yggdrasil, which would be the stargates. This establishes the connection between the Ancients, the builders of the stargates.

Glom
2004-Dec-09, 05:11 PM
Okay, I have taken more looks and I'm seeing some different interpretations.

There is confusion as to what exactly the Nine Worlds are. Specifically, the role of Svartalfheim, Nidavellir, Niflheim and Helheim. In some versions, Svartalfheim and Nidavellir are one world because the dark elves are the same as the dwarves. In other version, Niflheim and Helheim are the same.

If we work on the idea that the Norns are the Ancients, then the dwarves could be the dark Nox. Of course, we can say that interpretation has been screwed up a bit and the dwarves are a little bit of this and little bit of that. That leaves Niflheim and Helheim to be seperate. Helheim is Tartarus and I reckon Hel is a Wraith, captured and brought back to our galaxy by the Ancients for study and imprisoned in the depths below until Anubis woke her up.

TrAI
2004-Dec-09, 07:41 PM
Hmmm.. I don't think it would be easy to incorporate a story that was accurate in relation to the Norse mythology... Though it could be interesting to know how they would interpret the creation myth in the show.

Will we finally know what became of the great cow Audhumla?(The myth say she probably was washed over the edge and into the great abyss of Ginnungagap).

What happened to the human children Sol and Måne(Sun and Moon. Though that is the modern norwegian forms of the names, I think Sól and Máni might be the original forms) that the æsir took as punishment for their fathers insolence in naming them thus?(according to the myth they will drive the carriages of the sun and the moon until Ragnarok, when the hungry wolves that follow will finaly chase them down.).

Is the Onas descended from one of the lines of jotner?

Did the æsir make humans using the hair of Ymer?(the myth say that Ask and Embla was made from logs washed ashore, but it was the hair of Ymer, the enormous giant whose body the æsir made the world from, that became trees and grass)