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puzzlerch
2013-May-27, 01:02 PM
Why we are so alone in the universe,this is impossible in statistics.itís always confused us for a long time.but if we solve the following qusetions.maybe we can find the answer obviously.
Can we read our memory from our brain by some kind of technology?and can we write it to a new brain of a new body we make it by genic technology or others.letís assume itís ture.so there are a series of questions coming.they are divided three parts.
Part one: personal
1:if your memory have been removed,who are you?
2:if your memory have been replaced another oneís memory,who are you?think this question carefully,you can image that when you wake up in every morning.
3:do you think the memory actually is your soul.( It doesn't matter if you donít think so)
4:do you want to prolong your life by this way that read and write your memory?if not,how about the time you will die very soon.I think if I will died and I will try it because I have nothing could be lost.
Part two:Human
1:if someone among us want prolong their life by the way read&write memory,does their life have huge advantage to normal person.because they are immortal,they can choose their body and etc.
2:if 1% person in the world want prolong their life by this way,can they finally replace all humanís life form like now .
3:if you can be immortal and change your body if you need.you live in the world a few thousands years after.what do you think about the meaning of the live.I have thought this question and I get a result that we will become observer from participator for nature.just watch,hear and feel the running of nature.
4:can you image where the genic technology or other technology lead us to.the standard of body we choose is more strong, pretty or simple but can receive enough information from the nature that we can feel it better to be a observor.
Part three: nature
1:why every one in the earth thought they have soul and the soul is they real life.no one had ever seen or heard it.whatever they have different faith,education,nationality or etc.why this theory is infused into every oneís brain?can we define it is instinct.and every intelligent creature in the universe like or better than human have this instinct?
2:if we calculate the length of human civilization from the birth of words.there have already been a few thousands years till now.letís assume we will be observer within 5000 years.(itís a very long time for human).so current human civilization is totally ten thousands years. The extinction of the Dinosaurs had occurred 66 million years ago.then you can image a scene that you have a book have 6.6 thousands pages.the kind of civilization of human just is one page among it.and we look for it in infinite space and time.the chance that we meet is very impossible.
3:we all aware not every creature can be intelligent like human.human thing just is occasionaly happening.so maybe other ďhumanĒ had appeared in the earth in other page.we just missed.so dose alien.the civilization like human that we look for just is a transition stage from participator to observer,the length is very short for the universe.and if we become observer,we just feel the running of the nature.donít want to interfere in it.
4:if we donít like this future,can we stop it?I donít think so.because no one can stop the science go forward.and there must have someone to try it when the read-mind technology is matured.
5:Is there other way we can go?no,because the memory is the only answer for the soul,not DNA,face or something else.and the soul is human real life.no one can deny it.so if we can ,we must do.

Cougar
2013-May-27, 01:52 PM
Part three: nature
1:why every one in the earth thought they have soul and the soul is they real life.no one had ever seen or heard it.whatever they have different faith,education,nationality or etc.why this theory is infused into every oneís brain?

It's not. It's taught.

puzzlerch
2013-May-28, 02:07 AM
Why we are so alone in the universe,this is impossible in statistics.itís always confused us for a long time.but if we solve the following qusetions.maybe we can find the answer obviously.
Can we read our memory from our brain by some kind of technology?and can we write it to a new brain of a new body we make it by genic technology or others.letís assume itís ture.so there are a series of questions coming.they are divided three parts.
Part one: personal
1:if your memory have been removed,who are you?
2:if your memory have been replaced another oneís memory,who are you?think this question carefully,you can image that when you wake up in every morning.
3:do you think the memory actually is your soul.( It doesn't matter if you donít think so)
4:do you want to prolong your life by this way that read and write your memory?if not,how about the time you will die very soon.I think if I will died and I will try it because I have nothing could be lost.
Part two:Human
1:if someone among us want prolong their life by the way read&write memory,does their life have huge advantage to normal person.because they are immortal,they can choose their body and etc.
2:if 1% person in the world want prolong their life by this way,can they finally replace all humanís life form like now .
3:if you can be immortal and change your body if you need.you live in the world a few thousands years after.what do you think about the meaning of the live.I have thought this question and I get a result that we will become observer from participator for nature.just watch,hear and feel the running of nature.
4:can you image where the genic technology or other technology lead us to.the standard of body we choose is more strong, pretty or simple but can receive enough information from the nature that we can feel it better to be a observor.
Part three: nature
1:why every one in the earth thought they have soul and the soul is they real life.no one had ever seen or heard it.whatever they have different faith,education,nationality or etc.why this theory is infused into every oneís brain?can we define it is instinct.and every intelligent creature in the universe like or better than human have this instinct?
2:if we calculate the length of human civilization from the birth of words.there have already been a few thousands years till now.letís assume we will be observer within 5000 years.(itís a very long time for human).so current human civilization is totally ten thousands years. The extinction of the Dinosaurs had occurred 66 million years ago.then you can image a scene that you have a book have 6.6 thousands pages.the kind of civilization of human just is one page among it.and we look for it in infinite space and time.the chance that we meet is very impossible.
3:we all aware not every creature can be intelligent like human.human thing just is occasionaly happening.so maybe other ďhumanĒ had appeared in the earth in other page.we just missed.so dose alien.the civilization like human that we look for just is a transition stage from participator to observer,the length is very short for the universe.and if we become observer,we just feel the running of the nature.donít want to interfere in it.
4:if we donít like this future,can we stop it?I donít think so.because no one can stop the science go forward.and there must have someone to try it when the read-mind technology is matured.
5:Is there other way we can go?no,because the memory is the only answer for the soul,not DNA,face or something else.and the soul is human real life.no one can deny it.so if we can ,we must do.

Strange
2013-May-28, 10:45 AM
1:why every one in the earth thought they have soul and the soul is they real life

Not everyone thinks that.

Can you explain what your long rambling post has to do with the Fermi paradox? Are you saying that advanced societies only exist for a few thousand years? What is the evidence for that?

tusenfem
2013-May-28, 01:43 PM
This is a "duplicate" thread which first appeared in Q&A and was closed with the comment that if puzzlerch wanted to discuss it, it should be taken to e.g. LiS, where it is now. I will move some of the posts from the other thread here, so you don't have to type them in again.

ETA: it was only Cougar's post, which now appears at the top, I hope that is only of minor concern.

Okay that did not work correctly, so I also copied the OP of the first thread, otherwise Cougar would have started the thread.

puzzlerch
2013-May-28, 01:46 PM
I am Chinese,so pardon my English.
"Not everyone thinks that.

Can you explain what that long rambling post has to do with the Fermi paradox?"
first,most people think they have soul at least,right?every religion is the evidence,though I have no religion,but I think the real meaning of my life isn't my body,is my memory.if I lose my memory,I will lose all meaning of my life.and my future is base on my memory.so does everyone.
I divided three parts to explain this things. personal,human,nature.I have done it because I wanted to explain it step by step.first I explain "who am I"(the memory is the only answer),and if I know what is my real life what I will do to continue my life .then I explain what will happen in human,you can read it carefully,the second clause I said if 1% person want prolong their life by this way and what will happen to the whole human.and the part3 explained that if this thing will happen to human,so what about alien?I explained the conception about soul is instinctive to everyone that have intelligence like or more than human(why everyone in the earth think they have soul for long long time ago,we know no one taught to him).so if it will happen to human,it maybe had happened to the alien for a long time ago.and I explained the situation like human is temporary to the nature.10 thousands years we will "disappear".become a new life form.you can image it if you live in the world for few thousands years,what would you want,and what body is you need?more handsome,more strong,more smart?or just can feel the grandeur nature is enough.this is what I said from participator to observer.

puzzlerch
2013-May-28, 01:53 PM
you answered "it's taught",so why everyone think they have soul.whatever they have different education,language,religion,area.who taught them?is anyone have seen or heard the soul then taught everyone in the earth?do you feel you have soul by yourself?in the ancient,they isolated and have little knowledge they also thought they have soul.you can see it from wall painting

puzzlerch
2013-May-28, 03:29 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1224489/Psychic-plug-brain-thoughts-screen-developed.html?ITO=1490,
Psychic 'mind-reading' computer will show your thoughts on screen

Strange
2013-May-28, 04:00 PM
first,most people think they have soul at least,right?

I don't know. But it doesn't seem very relevant.


I explained the conception about soul is instinctive to everyone that have intelligence

No it isn't.


10 thousands years we will "disappear".become a new life form.

Maybe. Maybe not. You have no way of knowing that.

You are assuming (I think) that it is possible to extract someone's memory (personality/soul/whatever) and put it in some other form. That may not be possible.

You are assuming that people will lose their interest in exploring space because of this. That might not be true. People might choose to have themsleves "uploaded" to a spaceship to explore space. Or maybe just be an improved human body so they can live long enough to travel to the stars.

You are assuming that everyone will want the same thing you do.

And then you are assuming that aliens would think the same way and do the same things that you would.

It is a totally unconvincing argument from beginning to end.

ASTRO BOY
2013-May-28, 10:58 PM
Why we are so alone in the universe,this is impossible in statistics.it’s always confused us for a long time.but if we solve the following qusetions.maybe we can find the answer obviously.





Simply put, time and distance....
The Galaxy/Universe is a big place and we have light year distances separating stars and millions of light year distances separating galaxies.
For the probability of civilisations far in advance of us, even if they knew we were here, it's safe to assume that being that far advanced, they would want for nothing, and would not really have any need or desire to cause us harm........More then likely if they do know we are here, they maybe just observing us from long range and monitoring our progress.
We don't really know, but we are able to make estimates and forge speculative theories by examining equations at the Drake equation.

puzzlerch
2013-May-29, 12:36 AM
I don't know. But it doesn't seem very relevant.



No it isn't.



Maybe. Maybe not. You have no way of knowing that.

You are assuming (I think) that it is possible to extract someone's memory (personality/soul/whatever) and put it in some other form. That may not be possible.

You are assuming that people will lose their interest in exploring space because of this. That might not be true. People might choose to have themsleves "uploaded" to a spaceship to explore space. Or maybe just be an improved human body so they can live long enough to travel to the stars.

You are assuming that everyone will want the same thing you do.

And then you are assuming that aliens would think the same way and do the same things that you would.

It is a totally unconvincing argument from beginning to end.

you don't understood what I have said.1:I have said not everyone can accept this way to prolong his life.2:but this way has very huge advantage than current human life,because they can choose the body they want,they can live for a long time.3:so I have said if 1% person choose this way,they will replace the whole current human to become a new human.currently human will be eliminated(not every monkey become human,currently human will be eliminated because we can choose.so if someone don't accept it,their son,grandson will accept it,because they see some people always young around them when they are child.)

this thing is never happened in human history.but it's sign already around us.let me explain it by detail.
first:sleep
every morning when you wake up and open your eyes,you can think these question.
1:if I lose all my memory this time,"who am I?"and what about my feeling.
2:if my brain is infused into other people's memory this time,what will happen?who am I?
3:if I will die tomorrow and extract my memory and put into other body.can I wake up in that body like every morning I do.(maybe now you answer is no,but if you will die tomorrow,would you want to try?if you don't want,what about someone else)

second:maths
1:if you change your body per 40 years,one thousand years you will change 25 times.so what do you think about your life in that time.maybe you will have tried any way of live you want.more strong,more handsome,more smart.I do not mean that we lose our interest in exploring space.on the contrary,we have more curious and aspiration to exploring the space.just use other way to become observer to watch and feel the running of the nature like you watch TV.do you like watching TV or film?do you do exercises or think some maths question when you watch TV?(animal is full participator,they work all day for food or avoid be fooded. we are semi-participator,we have some spare time to enjoy the live)

third:instinct
we can't deny most people in the earth think they have soul even they haven't religion.most of us always feel another "I" in my body(I think everyone dose,but you deny it.so I use "most of us").how can you explain these people think so.they have different background,education,language,faith and etc.even primitive man think so too(wall paint show that),In ancient,we were not communicate.we were isolated.who taught us about soul and why most people believe that?no one have seen it.so why we can't define it is instinct like sex to us.(if I use chinese maybe I can explain it better,the soul is not the ghost,is we think who really I am).so if the soul is instinct to us,then it is instinct to intelligent creature(like or better than human).in ancient I am alien to you.different custom,food,shape,language and etc.but we all believe we have soul in someway.

fourth:the answer about soul(who am I)
there is an only answer for it is the memory in our brain.not your face(it can change),not your DNA(we just know it a few decades,and I confirm me never check my DNA),you can do a simple experiment to prove the theory,you assume if you lose something(face,passport or something else) you won't know who are you.nothing can do that except memory.

puzzlerch
2013-May-29, 12:59 AM
Simply put, time and distance....

"distance"is hard to us.but infinite time and countless stars in the galaxy.and galaxyĎs diameter is just 100,000 light year.

ASTRO BOY
2013-May-29, 04:35 AM
"distance"is hard to us.but infinite time and countless stars in the galaxy.and galaxy‘s diameter is just 100,000 light year.


If we can last the time, and obtain class 2 or 3 civilisation, as measured by the Kardashev scale, we should be able to achieve most that is allowed by the laws of physics and GR.
And continued evolution of our species, could see us as unrecognisable from what we are now........

Strange
2013-May-29, 07:34 AM
3:so I have said if 1% person choose this way,they will replace the whole current human to become a new human.currently human will be eliminated(not every monkey become human,currently human will be eliminated because we can choose.so if someone don't accept it,their son,grandson will accept it,because they see some people always young around them when they are child.)

I don't understand your logic here. If, say, 1% chose to use this technology then there would be 1% of these "elite" or long-lived people. The remaining 99% would carry on as before. why would they be eliminated? Or are you suggesting that the 1% would kill the 99% for some reason? But even if everybody chooses to do this, so what? How does this relate to the Fermi paradox.

The rest of your post seems to be simply an argument that we are defined by our memories. This may be true. I don't know. But I still don't see how the relevance to the Fermi paradox.

And, finally, you are assuming that such technology is possible. Which may not be true.

But, let us assume that that all these assumptions were true: the technology is possible, everybody decides to use it, and the same is true for all alien species. Can you explain how this resolves the Fermi paradox? Why would we meet lots of long-lived alien species who have mastered your technology?

I guess it is this "observer" concept I don't understand...

puzzlerch
2013-May-29, 09:19 AM
let me make a story to you.(maybe my english is real poor)
we are neighbour . and we are same age.you have a son.and we will died after many years.a doctor told us there is a operation can prolong our life.I choose and you don't.the doctor use my DNA clone a new body to me(for some law or ethics problems).and some days or years after your son see new me.young and health.and have a conversation to me.do you think your son think I am the guy he knew since he was child?do you think your son will go this way when he is old?so ,I don't kill you,the huge advantage(always young,long life or others) make people take this side.those people can't accept it will died by nature law.and their son or grandson will go this way.so the current human will be replaced by new human.

and I live in the world by this way thousand years.I have changed my body 25 times(maybe more),don't rely on clone,I can custom-made my gene or become a terminator(AI).I don't need more strong,handsome,smart body(can you understand that?these is no use for me),I just need a body can receive information from nature,can create power by myself(like chlorophyll),so I can free for live.you can image the scene,if I find a species like human on the other planet,what would we do?become them use their gene is enough.we can observer them like watch TV.or just leave because I have no interesting let them ask me some "stupid" questions.I can know them easily.
its relevance to Fermi paradox is 1:this is two type of life form.they have no overlap in interest.and one(new man) over another one(current man) too far.2:we will find the way to free our real life,and this is the only way for every intelligent creature in the universe(I have already explained it is instinct to intelligent creature).if the civilization develop enough,they will drive on this way.and the period is very shortly for(to,by?) nature.3:the new civilization is observer because they are freed from body prison.they don't fear of disease,starvation,pain and others(change a body can solve everything).so they won't fight for food ,for sex ,for fortune or something else.4:they can change their shape,if they don't want you find them,you will never find them.they just observe you(maybe they can be friend with you) on your neighbour.LOL
so we feel alone in the galaxy.we want find a civilization like us is impossible.because this situation like us is very short for the universe.we can't meet.if there are some"pig""cow"in other planet.we can't find them by our technology.

puzzlerch
2013-May-29, 11:48 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/science/obama-to-unveil-initiative-to-map-the-human-brain.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1&
1:if we find some way we can read memory,what will happen?can you stop the scientist's curiosity.
2:read&write,just a problem of time.
3:every one will dead in someday,and most of us don't want to die,they want alive in any way(you can find these evidence in myth,religion.whatever Chinese or European or other nationality)
4:every night we are "dead",and every morning we "revival".we already have this experience for a long long time.(so I ask you those question when you wake up in the morning.we ignore it because it's too normal for us.)
5:if I am a observer,I think I will do these things.I have a main-body just like brain(function like brain),I just need lesser energy because sustain my life just some bioelectricity. and I have some units spread everywhere to collect information for me. or share other one's memory(do you like talk to somebody,but what I said is deeply),or receive information from creature by some ways.like birds,horse....
6:do you play game(XBOX or something else).you know the enemy under the screen can't hurt you.but you still afraid,exciting.because your brain deal with these information,and make it be true for you.so we just need information

Strange
2013-May-29, 12:04 PM
2:read&write,just a problem of time.

You don't know that. It may be impossible.


3:every one will dead in someday,and most of us don't want to die,they want alive in any way

Again, not true. (I assume you must be quite young :)) There are lots of people who say they do not want to live forever.

But, I still don't follow your conclusion. IF this technology were possible and so people could live forever in any form they wish, then this could make it more likely they want to explore space. They need something to do to fill their lives for thousands/millions of years. They don't need to worry about the dangers; they can just load their "soul" (memories) into a new body if they are accidentally killed.

In fact, this technology is perfect for space exploarition. You don't have to sit through the thousands of years to get to another star system, you just store you memories on a disk drive / USB stick until you arrive and then have it downloaded into a body which is genetically engineered for the environment you find.

So I think this technology, if it were possible, makes it more likely we would encounter aliens! Therefore it isn't possible. :)

kzb
2013-May-29, 12:13 PM
I actually got excited when I saw this thread title :) !

So, this is the idea?:
there have been many short-lived civilisations in the history of Earth, and they were inhabited by beings with the same "souls" as us. But we do not have any memory of our past lives in prehistoric civilisations, so we think we are the first.

My response: there's no substantiated evidence of civilisations before the homo sapiens era, in the geological record. So there is no requirement for souls, or for those souls to forget anything, to either prove or disprove this theory. It's disproved by the lack of evidence of civilisations throughout 99%+ of the history of Earth.

puzzlerch
2013-May-29, 03:32 PM
You don't know that. It may be impossible.



Again, not true. (I assume you must be quite young :)) There are lots of people who say they do not want to live forever.

But, I still don't follow your conclusion. IF this technology were possible and so people could live forever in any form they wish, then this could make it more likely they want to explore space. They need something to do to fill their lives for thousands/millions of years. They don't need to worry about the dangers; they can just load their "soul" (memories) into a new body if they are accidentally killed.

In fact, this technology is perfect for space exploarition. You don't have to sit through the thousands of years to get to another star system, you just store you memories on a disk drive / USB stick until you arrive and then have it downloaded into a body which is genetically engineered for the environment you find.

So I think this technology, if it were possible, makes it more likely we would encounter aliens! Therefore it isn't possible. :)

we would encounter aliens is the evidence for that isn't possible?do I know your mean right?
1:what are we(human and aliens)mutual interesting ,just information,not energy or ore or something else that is limited.information is endless resource.if you want ,I can give you a copy easily.we won't fight for this resource.
2:this like some kind of exclusive club.if your civilization has been developed this stage,you can get the membership.we can share something.
3:we don't want do more copy for myself.because:http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003832 .everyone just could have one first person sight(FPS).and the FPS make the sense of existence for you(where are you).this is a formula:who am I(memory)+where am I(first person sight)=I.
4:this is a choice,not a obligation.if you want live for a long time,you do it and vice versa. if you tired for the live,you can have a rest in usb(don't put your memory into any "brain",just save in some disk)
5:I am 38 years old.and I will do it if I could have the chance.because I know it will make life very freedom(no pain,no starvation,no fear),and I can do more things that I can't do now.I also have more curious about the earth,galaxy,universe.

puzzlerch
2013-May-29, 04:05 PM
I actually got excited when I saw this thread title :) !

So, this is the idea?:
there have been many short-lived civilisations in the history of Earth, and they were inhabited by beings with the same "souls" as us. But we do not have any memory of our past lives in prehistoric civilisations, so we think we are the first.

My response: there's no substantiated evidence of civilisations before the homo sapiens era, in the geological record. So there is no requirement for souls, or for those souls to forget anything, to either prove or disprove this theory. It's disproved by the lack of evidence of civilisations throughout 99%+ of the history of Earth.

I don't know there was a civilizations before the homo sapiens era in the earth.I just speculate.
1:if we become observer.what do you think about our city?do you think the city is ugly for the nature.you don't need to live in the house.you just live in the wild,in the nature.so what would we do to the building,the city?
2:if you are observer and you find some creature in the earth develop intelligence gradually,they have conscious to the earth and "who are they".what would you do?make them confuse by our relic or eliminate it silently.so you can watch them develop on the way of nature?
3:just what I have said.there was already 66 million years since Dinosaurs had vanished.if there is a book have 6,600 pages.our civilization just is one page and we are the back cover.if the prehistoric civilization had appeared on 100 page before.the period of one million years can sweep off relic too.
4:that is true that no evidence can prove some prehistoric civilizations had existed.but I think this point is reasonable.

ASTRO BOY
2013-May-29, 08:50 PM
My comments on the puzzlerch speculation is as mentioned before.
That is if we can survive our own follies, and at the same time avoid any astronomical catastrophe, our evolution and technological knowhow will automatically progress, and only be limited by the Universal laws of physics and GR.

I don't like the use of the word "soul" as it has religious connotations, and I think this has already got some off-side....."the energy of the mind, or self"??
I'm not sure what we could replace it with,
But I have heard of scientific discussions that the "internal self energy" or the "energy of being" maybe the threshold of our evolutionary path anyway.
This aspect of evolution has also been done with Star Trek on a number of occasions...pure energetic beings and such.

At this time it does appear to be beyond our technological forseeable future but so to is traveling at "c" and beyond.....
But don't let that discourage you too much, a lot of our scientific achievements have been obtained by great men thinking outside the box.

Seaumas
2013-May-30, 12:44 AM
Ahem. If you will check out the history of our miserable little blue marble you'll see that is precisely the truth: Advanced societies are organisms unto themselves, gow, stagnate, then rot to feed the next emerging one. Log, Lag, Decrepitation. the usual reason that societies disintegrate or fall is that they extend themselves to far, use up their food and resources and corrupt themselves to death. Same in biology. The reasons microorganisms die is usually because they poison themselves, i.e. die drowning in their own filth. The useful elements left or any society are used to provide the basis upon a new one. That's not just U.S. Delaration of Indpendence philosophy, its historical fact.

Swift
2013-May-30, 01:54 AM
That's not just U.S. Delaration of Indpendence philosophy, its historical fact.
Please be careful. Do not drag politics into this discussion.

puzzlerch
2013-May-30, 03:09 AM
"the energy of the mind, or self"?this is not what I mean.
my meaning is
1:the standards of new body is more lesser need energy.because some functions of current body are not necessarily.like sex(someone said he love it,but don't worry,we can get high by other way and easily in the future),breed,strong muscle and something else.we just need energy can receive and deal with information is enough(maybe other simple function to sustain our life).we more lesser depend on energy,our live more free.you can think this question,if you have strong body,you must need more food.how can you free.
2:the better thing is we can create energy by ourself like plant.transform light power to chemical power to sustain ourself. maybe this can be realized by genic technology.
3:we sustain our life depend on information not mean we don't need body.life is a system.for example,as computer.I have already worked for a few years.and worked on different companys. every time I change my job I can get a new computer from the new company for job.and I have accumulated some data(memory) in these years.I feel the computer is mine when I put my data into the new computer.I don't care about the hardware(body)(do you understand what I mean,it too complicated for me to expression it in english).but if no computer,my data is useless.so the data(memory) is more important thing to me,but I still need computer(body) yet.by the way I want my computer have solar battery and Less power consumption ,just can deal with my data is enough
4:why I use these phrase like "what do you think""do you think" frequently,because 1:we are alien too,we have some similarity.2:so we are the object to study Fermi paradox.what we think ,want,need is the result or data for this study.

ASTRO BOY
2013-May-30, 04:53 AM
Ahem. If you will check out the history of our miserable little blue marble you'll see that is precisely the truth: Advanced societies are organisms unto themselves, gow, stagnate, then rot to feed the next emerging one. Log, Lag, Decrepitation. the usual reason that societies disintegrate or fall is that they extend themselves to far, use up their food and resources and corrupt themselves to death. Same in biology. The reasons microorganisms die is usually because they poison themselves, i.e. die drowning in their own filth. The useful elements left or any society are used to provide the basis upon a new one. That's not just U.S. Delaration of Indpendence philosophy, its historical fact.



I prefer to remain optimistic about the future of the human race.
And I firmly hold to the scenario, that once a certain level of intelligence is reached, and technological achievement obtained, peaceful co-existence and non beligerence will come automatically.

puzzlerch
2013-Jun-02, 01:08 PM
1:The memory is the real life for the intelligent creature.like data base.
2:the DNA create ďinstinctĒto us.I divide the instinct into three parts,eat,breed and safe.
So I make a simple program to simulate it.
1:we have to got some data bases for some special kind of data
2:we design some logic to simulate to instinct.
The thing is
The robot want to survive must to charge themselves when they are low power.so The situation is
1:there are some electric outlet can refill power to the robots.but they are different.1)excellent:always have power.2)good:always have power but need more time to charge.3)no bad:sometimes can charge.
2:these robots have different size,and the shape more bigger then they more strong.

The robots logic
1:when their power >30%.they first job is search for electric outlet and record its location and make ďdata base 1Ē(food) for themselves.and when they collect the locationís count >5,they can take a rest
2:when their power<30%,they will be charged according to the ďdata base 1Ē.
3:they will push away the other one who occupy the electric outlet when they are needing be charged.and because they are different size have different strong.so maybe they can work or not.they sign the robot with 1 or 0(can work is 1).and make the ďdata base 2Ē(safe).and next time the same things happening,they will according to the ďdata base 2Ēto make decision to push or go away to the next location according to the ďdata base 1Ē
4:if their power lower than 15% and canít be charged.they logic will be changed to find 10 electric outlet location in their ďdata base 1Ēafter they survive.
5:they have forgetting function..if some location long time not be visited,it will be abolished from the ďdata base1Ē

The results:
1:the robots can be learned by the database.
2:they can be evolution.just like the situation their power lower than 15% and survive.
3:more logic(need,instinct) need more database.so if the logics are numerous like human being,they can be more intelligence.
4:logic can cross each other.for example,some electric outlets have over power and dangerous to some robots(small size).so the location of electric outlet will be signed in two database(food,safe).
5:I think there have three main-logic---eat,breed(the robots sounds like donít need it) and safe.and each main-logic have numerous sublogic.they maybe cross and found a new database.

puzzlerch
2013-Jun-03, 05:56 AM
maybe we can get some conclusions from this experiment.
1:the robots can live if they haven't database,just have more detail logic.so they need more breed for survive.because single unit have huge risk for survive.so they look like germ or plant.
2:more database can get more intelligence,because they can make the best choice from the database.but they need more logic(need).if not,what does the data use for?
3:we are intelligent creature,so the database is more important for us.
4:logic is some kind of memory too.but different appearance. it like instinct database.each logic point to a need(instinct) of the robot.

puzzlerch
2013-Jun-06, 04:30 AM
how would we infuse our memory into another body.I have got a idea from some scientific topic.we can make a chip of our memory then transplant into a body.every science fans may know how it's work,so I don't explain the detail.(because my English).
1:we can make a body used our gene(clone),and we have the right for the body.
2:when the body is a baby we transplant the chip into his brain as a peripheral.
3:I think the baby can entirely absorb the information from the peripheral,because they haven't his own consiousness,so he can accept the information well.just like our growth up.when we are baby we don't know who I am,so we absorb the information from around(a child can be anyone if he was adopted from different family).but when I am an adult,no one can change my mind easily.
4:we can take the chip out when the baby already absorb the information enough.

the point is:what the feeling about the baby,does he can identify himself smoothly

puzzlerch
2013-Jun-22, 09:00 AM
I ever had an experience of read&write memory ,just in a dream,but you know we always cannot distinguish the real or not real in the dream.so I had a real experience for it.the dream is I was pursued by a monster,very huge and ugly.I was scared and run as fast as I can .and finally I have no way to run,I closed my eyes in desperate and waiting for the follow things.but suddenly I found the voice is far away from me then I opened my eyes I found the monster was catching another man who crouched in the ground. I knew the man is me but I can't feel his(my) feeling.and my feeling was standing on another body I was possessing now.and then I felt a sense of huge freedom and courage I never had.I was so exciting because I will never afraid of hurt,disease,death or something else.
I know this feeling is the feeling of read&write process feeling . one body died so his feeling is closed, and his memory will be continued in a new body who has its own sense.and the new body know who he is just like me in the dream.trust me,this experience is very very exciting that you never have. you can refer to the feeling you become superman.

puzzlerch
2013-Jun-23, 12:59 PM
I think the monster represent my disease,hurt,death or some other miserable things I can't avoid in my life.so I have no way to run till I transfer my memory.