PDA

View Full Version : Instant healing/regneration=major bug?



Inclusa
2013-Sep-28, 06:37 AM
Wolverine may not be that powerful of a hero (he doesn't have major destructive/control superpower), but his instant healing ability can render him rather invincible.
The other concept is the "zenkai" feature in Dragonball (and all its derivatives), which is the exponential growth of strength after major injury or near death. If these two features are combined, this can be called "major bug".
(Of course, "zenkai" won't matter if you are just an average human.)

Noclevername
2013-Sep-28, 08:45 AM
Geek note: Wolverine suffers from a violation of thermodynamics, he is able to regenerate without requiring additional energy or mass. Of course most superheroes regularly sling around enormous amounts of energy with no apparent source, so he's in good company.

HenrikOlsen
2013-Sep-29, 02:05 AM
Geek note: Wolverine suffers from a violation of thermodynamics, he is able to regenerate without requiring additional energy or mass. Of course most superheroes regularly sling around enormous amounts of energy with no apparent source, so he's in good company.
He is? The only time I can remember mass-replaced healing was when he was helped by the M'Krann crystal, which was basically a "First to touch becomes a god" Mcguffin that he (or rather the drop of blood that was all that was left of him by then) was first to touch.

When I checked with my external memory I saw it's actually the M'Kraan Crystal. You try getting that close to correct after 20 years.

Solfe
2013-Sep-29, 02:29 AM
He is? The only time I can remember mass-replaced healing was when he was helped by the M'Krann crystal, which was basically a "First to touch becomes a god" Mcguffin that he (or rather the drop of blood that was all that was left of him by then) was first to touch.

When I checked with my external memory I saw it's actually the M'Kraan Crystal. You try getting that close to correct after 20 years.

"Or I could just stop..." I remember that one and it is one of my favorite Wolverine lines.

For some reason, I love regeneration but don't like the effects of direct magic healing. I am writing a story in the very far future, where medics have access to nano-tech that can pretty much fix anything other than a head shot. They can stop a preventable death, but actual healing takes a relatively long period of time. As a consequence, the view that medics are valid military targets has been bred out of humanity. It isn't a rule or a law, weapons are specifically programmed to stop working around medical personnel. There may have been more than one grey-goo war in the past that no one wants to repeat.

Noclevername
2013-Sep-29, 02:35 AM
I know of at least one case where Wolverine's been reduced to a bare metal skeleton and grown back from just his brain. He also manages to heal without any change in appetite.

The Ultimate Iron Man comic had Tony Stark regrow both legs in minutes just by eating sandwiches, thanks to his body's nanotech. But even that pushes or breaks the limits of what would be physically possible.

Romanus
2013-Sep-29, 02:41 AM
Sorry, HenrikOlsen, but I think you're mistaken. What you're referring to is the crystal Horde made the X-Men look for in X-Men Annual #11. To my knowledge, that's the only issue Horde and the crystal were in.

The M'Kraan crystal has a much longer story arc, from the 1970s through the 1990s.

Solfe
2013-Sep-29, 02:52 AM
Sorry, HenrikOlsen, but I think you're mistaken. What you're referring to is the crystal Horde made the X-Men look for in X-Men Annual #11. To my knowledge, that's the only issue Horde and the crystal were in.

The M'Kraan crystal has a much longer story arc, from the 1970s through the 1990s.

I did the same thing. X-Men 203 (March 1986) has the M'Kraan Crystal while X-Men Annual 11 (November 1987) has the Horde Crystal.

Inclusa
2013-Sep-30, 12:39 AM
"Or I could just stop..." I remember that one and it is one of my favorite Wolverine lines.

For some reason, I love regeneration but don't like the effects of direct magic healing. I am writing a story in the very far future, where medics have access to nano-tech that can pretty much fix anything other than a head shot. They can stop a preventable death, but actual healing takes a relatively long period of time. As a consequence, the view that medics are valid military targets has been bred out of humanity. It isn't a rule or a law, weapons are specifically programmed to stop working around medical personnel. There may have been more than one grey-goo war in the past that no one wants to repeat.

Direct magical healing range from regeneration of one missing limb to full regeneration (even if one cell isn't destroyed.) This is against everything we've known about physics.

Solfe
2013-Sep-30, 01:33 AM
Direct magical healing range from regeneration of one missing limb to full regeneration (even if one cell isn't destroyed.) This is against everything we've known about physics.

Generally, the way I play it, if a medic gets to someone before the loss of a limb kills him or her, they won't die. They will have a long recovery period. The medic also has a literal ton of materials to make this happen. Actually, I am not sure how much they have by weight, but the apparatus to make them effective is about the size of a tank. It is also not a valid target.

Noclevername
2013-Sep-30, 01:36 AM
Generally, the way I play it, if a medic gets to someone before the loss of a limb kills him or her, they won't die. They will have a long recovery period. The medic also has a literal ton of materials to make this happen. Actually, I am not sure how much they have by weight, but the apparatus to make them effective is about the size of a tank. It is also not a valid target.

And no one has ever taken advantage of this immunity from attack to fly a "false flag"? Human nature must have changed radically for that to be the case.

Solfe
2013-Sep-30, 04:39 AM
And no one has ever taken advantage of this immunity from attack to fly a "false flag"? Human nature must have changed radically for that to be the case.

Humans are, in fact, wildly different.

Medical staff are the only people with access to nanotech, and medicine is often blurred with nanotech so, killing the practitioners is bad. Taking advantage of them is worse. In this particular scenario, there are only a handful of planets where people can live, so large scale combat is limited to small police actions or space warfare. There is almost nothing in between. If one side thought that the other was taking steps to use medical staff as a weapons, and by extension abusing nanotechnology, they would be bombed from orbit by wave after wave of weapons with zero hesitation. If there were more than two sides in the conflict, everyone would stop what they were doing to eliminate the transgressor no matter what side they are on. No one wants another grey-goo war.

Actually a false flag situation works pretty smoothly. What I keep having to avoid is when soldiers are wounded and are being treated on the battlefield, what happens next? No one will shoot the medic, but can they shoot the patient? I decided that if the patient looks dangerous, they can. So medics tend to sedate everyone, friend or foe with the least provocation. This sort of tests the limits of believability, so I try to avoid it.

I also play soldiers as being compassionate and knowledgeable. Many weapons available to them are not used in certain circumstances. For example, they will shoot at the enemy's heads with bullets, but not lasers. The reason is the laser is much less capable of killing and has a huge chance of causing massive brain damage instead. They are highly cognizant of "invisible wounds".

I have made this my November Novel story, I will finish it soon.

Noclevername
2013-Sep-30, 04:46 AM
So it's case of Mutual Assured Destruction, times two; the space-capable forces can glass the planet, while the medics can (potentially) wipe out all life, leading to a heavily stylized type of warfare where the soldiers are not just trained but indoctrinated into a specific policy of combat.

Solfe
2013-Sep-30, 05:10 AM
So it's case of Mutual Assured Destruction, times two; the space-capable forces can glass the planet, while the medics can (potentially) wipe out all life, leading to a heavily stylized type of warfare where the soldiers are not just trained but indoctrinated into a specific policy of combat.

Sort of. They can't easily glass a planet, but they can unleash enough ordinance to damage every structure and let the hostile or absent atmosphere take care of the problem. The medical persons with nanotech are physically non-violent but mentally can be really threatening. They can psych people out without even getting all that specific.

I really thought about how much energy these guys have and tried to make it seem realistic. Nanotech devices are common, but in the hands of the few. Since they are viewed as being very necessary, opponents will avoid damaging "infrastructure". I wanted the medics to seem impressive and they are, but they have a baggage train a mile long to keep it all working.

I did some scratch figuring and the energy needed just turn raw materials into nanotech on the fly and use it for only medical purposes, and it is way more than a whole battalion of troops have to power lasers, tanks and aircraft. So much more, I decided to ignore the fact that I have no idea what could power it and still be mobile. I left that bit out, even though I am writing a book. :)

Noclevername
2013-Sep-30, 05:27 AM
I did some scratch figuring and the energy needed just turn raw materials into nanotech on the fly and use it for only medical purposes, and it is way more than a whole battalion of troops have to power lasers, tanks and aircraft. So much more, I decided to ignore the fact that I have no idea what could power it and still be mobile. I left that bit out, even though I am writing a book. :)

Some source that requires nanotech to work? Fusion that needs molecularly aligned superconductors, or a way to extract vacuum energy (http://www.scribd.com/doc/78621583/robert-forward-extracting-electrical-energy-from-the-vacuum-by-cohesion-of-charged-foliated-conductors) using nanoscopic parts? That way only the medics control that particular power source.

HenrikOlsen
2013-Sep-30, 10:04 AM
Sorry, HenrikOlsen, but I think you're mistaken. What you're referring to is the crystal Horde made the X-Men look for in X-Men Annual #11. To my knowledge, that's the only issue Horde and the crystal were in.

The M'Kraan crystal has a much longer story arc, from the 1970s through the 1990s.
Whichever crystal it was, it was an external power source for the regeneration, which was the real point.

Solfe
2013-Sep-30, 11:29 AM
Whichever crystal it was, it was an external power source for the regeneration, which was the real point.I think a switch got flipped in my head and I went into Nerd Overdrive. :)

Noclevername
2013-Oct-05, 12:39 PM
In Wolverine (3rd series) #57-61, Logan finds out that his healing factor had been radically enhanced by some past magical dealie, and his soul had been made death-proof. The deal was broken and his healing was reduced to something like its original levels, and he became able to die again. Apparently this was the writer's way of trying to undo some of the power bloat of the last decade or two.