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Reacher
2004-Dec-06, 04:28 PM
No, I'm not going to ask for a diagnosis of some weird rash, or a morphene prescription. There's just this strange phenomenon that I'm sure only a doctor or the like could explain. Oh, and it's undoubtedly extremely dangerous, I wouldn't advise anyone try what I'm about to describe.

My sister went to a party a couple of nights ago, where a good friend of hers taught her how to knock a person unconscious for a couple of seconds. When she told me this, I was extremely skeptical. So she offered to perform the procedure on me, and I cautiously accepted. I'll mention again that it is undoubtedly very dangerous, so I don't think it's a good idea to try it, nor to let your sister try it on you, in hindsight. Basically, she had me sit on my feet, with my hands on my thighs. I breathed as deeply as possible for thirty seconds, and when thirty seconds rolled around, I took a deep breath while standing up, and held it, while she squeezed my chest from behind. I was thinking about how stupid the entire thing was, and next thing I knew, I'd woken up, laying on the ground, completely out of it.

When I reoriented myself and realised that it had worked, I tried to work out how, but I came up with nothing. I asked a few people, and they didn't know either. So, my question is, how does this work? I don't understand how oxygenating your blood and then applying pressure to the chest (It's not much pressure... My sister isn't very strong) could render a person unconscious.

Stregone
2004-Dec-06, 04:32 PM
Cuts off blood or oxygen to your brain for a moment, or something like that. I remember kids did that in middle school, kinda makes you feel high or so I heard.

Swift
2004-Dec-06, 04:54 PM
Not a doctor either (well, not a MD), but I'm guessing that somehow it basically triggers you to faint. Sometimes just standing quickly enough can do that, but I don't know what the pressure on the chest would do.

Wally
2004-Dec-06, 05:24 PM
Brings up fond (???) memories of my early grade school years. I did this to a friend, who ended up falling backwards and hitting his head on a sidewalk (nothing worse than a bump, fortunately). He did it back to me. I didn't fall to the ground, but I did exhale strongly out my nose, while stumbling around like a drunkard.

End result was snot in my hair! #-o

I'm guessing it has something to do with lowering your blood pressure (deep breathing before-hand), then putting your body into a position that it's not immediately able to deal with (holding breathe, constricted chest), causing the amount of blood to your brain to fall drastically. Don't think it can cause any permanent harm, other than the head on cement thing. :-?

Metricyard
2004-Dec-06, 07:47 PM
Remember doing that a long, long time ago.

Beats sniffing gasoline.

Not that I every did that when I was a kid.

Sticks
2004-Dec-06, 08:26 PM
It reminds me of something that happened to me earlier this year and was related to trying to stop hiccups or hic-coughs.

I had heard that hiccupping occured when part of the diaphram went into spasm. Now I had also read in my first aid book that a muscle cramp was when muscle went into spasm. So a Hiccup is related to muscle cramp.

with me so far?

Treatment for muscle cramp is to stretch the muscle

So my reasoning and limited knowledge of anatomy lead me to the conclusion that if hiccups are caused by the diaphram muscle being in spasm, then the holy grail of medicine - a guarnateed cure for hiccups would be to stretch the diaphram.

So my treatment for hiccups was the following

Hyperventillate

Take a deep breath

Hold your nose and moth shut

Try and pressurise downwards - I had visions of using air pressure in the lungs to stretch the diaphram - as my limited knowledge of anatomy had it. Maintain that pressure for as long as you can.

Release slowly.

It seemed to work most times.

On to the incident

I had turned up for church and was in the building toilets when attacked by a bout of hiccups. I performed my procedure - felt funny sort of how you feel when you go under general annestetic using gas.

Then woke up on the floor - I do not know how long I was out for. No one else found me in that condition.

And no we are not charismatics so no jokes about slaying in the spirit.

Now when i perfom the procedure, I do it sitting and try and speed it up. There have been no further incidents.

So my questions are

1) is my patent cure a load of hooey. If so why does it appear to work sometimes.

2) was my passing out related to what happened to Reacher's experience

Donnie B.
2004-Dec-06, 08:57 PM
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor.

The culprit is hyperventilation. Here's a quick description from an online first aid site:


Hyperventilation occurs when a person takes quick, deep breaths from the top of their chest. These quick, deep breaths reduce the level of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the blood. This reduced level of carbon dioxide causes the arteries to constrict, reducing the flow of blood throughout the body. When this occurs, our brain and body will experience a shortage of oxygen.

(from http://www.parasolemt.com.au/Manual/hyperventilation.asp )

So, ironically, you pass out from lack of oxygen after taking in too much oxygen.

This site, and others, state that it's usually not dangerous, though it can lead to injuries from falling down. That happened to me once, a long time ago, and I don't recommend that anyone do it deliberately.

ktesibios
2004-Dec-06, 09:24 PM
I remember doing that as a kid. It's called a Valsalva maneuver (actually a variant of it). The way it works is that the squeezing of your chest while you hold your breath increases the pressure in your chest cavity enough to interfere with venous return to the heart. You pass out because your brain isn't getting its quota of oxygenated blood.

As far as I know, the point of hyperventilating first is to blow off CO2, enabling you to hold your breath longer (it's CO2 levels, not oxygen levels, that trigger the breathing reflex).

Not the safest party trick in the world. [-X

Sticks
2004-Dec-06, 09:28 PM
So an safer cures for hiccups?

ktesibios
2004-Dec-07, 01:31 AM
So an safer cures for hiccups?

Try eating a spoonful of granulated sugar. Supposedly the grittiness of it stimuates the vagus nerve as you swallow and stops the hiccups. I don't know whether that's correct or whether the effect is entirely psychological, but it works reliably for me.

Reacher
2004-Dec-07, 06:21 AM
I don't know if feeling high is how I'd describe the experience I had when I woke up. I've never been high, but if that's what it is, I fail to see how it's so popular. It was quite unpleasant.

I find that if I make short inhalations and even shorter exhalations, so that my lungs slowly fill with air, my hiccups will disappear, but only if I catch them early.

mickal555
2004-Dec-07, 06:27 AM
I'm going to try hang on.........
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Al I did was tremble uncontrolobly.............. I don't think I am doing it right I did fall back but intenionally I think........

Enzp
2004-Dec-07, 07:48 AM
This goes around school yards forever. I first saw it done 45 or more years ago. You pass out. Kids do it because they can. it is amusing to find out you can do it. I don't think it is a get high thing. We didn't think of it that way. One kid wound up swallowing his tongue, and the coach saved him by fishing it out with a pencil. (It was in gym class, adn it was scary to watch.)

I would put it on the list with things like staring at a light bulb and then looking away to see the image on your retina. Or even things like bending over a chair with your head against the wall, gripping the chair, then trying to stand up with it. Girls can do it, and guys can't, demonstrating the difference in center of gravity of male versus female bodies.

(Yes, I am sure there are some long legged guys and some women with longer torsos than average, but 99% of the time it works.)

01101001
2004-Dec-07, 08:01 AM
Or even things like bending over a chair with your head against the wall, gripping the chair, then trying to stand up with it. Girls can do it, and guys can't, demonstrating the difference in center of gravity of male versus female bodies.

I think that mostly demonstrates the sex difference in foot length. Part of the recipe is to stand 3 heel-to-toe steps away from the wall. That puts most men farther away than most women. I remember first failing, and then succeeding by standing the same distance from the wall as a girlfriend did.

At least you don't pass out with that trick and risk dying when your head hits the ground.

Joe The Dude
2004-Dec-08, 06:45 AM
Back when I was in middle school, the passing out trick looked like a lot of fun.
That is, until I tried it.
I passed out all right, but I went into some kind of a seizure / spasm that they say lasted for a few seconds...
I wound up stretching a tendon in my left leg so much it almost became detached.

While I'm not a doctor myself, the one who treated me had said (paraphrasing, as it was a long time ago) a small number of people who do that trick, under certian conditions, die from it.
8-[

SciFi Chick
2004-Dec-08, 02:49 PM
While I'm not a doctor myself, the one who treated me had said (paraphrasing, as it was a long time ago) a small number of people who do that trick, under certian conditions, die from it.
8-[

Absolutely true. And scary. Not to mention the ones who don't die but do end up with brain damage, which some would say is worse.

beskeptical
2004-Dec-10, 09:21 AM
Sounds like fun until you find out it can precipitate a stroke or heart attack. It ought to be a clue it isn't good for you if it causes you to pass out.

Blowing off excess CO2 causes your blood to become slightly too alkaline. Our chemical processes function in the narrow range of 7.35 to 7.45 pH. The resulting alkalosis causes the fuzzy tingly feeling you get.

Low CO2 causes vasoconstriction. Squeezing the chest would further constrict venous return to the heart. No return, no blood to pump.

Here's a good summary (http://www.yournewlife.biz/Overbreathing.html) of the details and the dangers.
Hypocapnia always results in narrowed arteries and veins, with associated high blood pressure (hypertension). When the blood vessels are constricted, less blood is delivered to tissue, which means less oxygen and less glucose for fuel. The extra signals to the heart, coupled with less oxygen and fuel are implicated in heart attacks.

When blood vessels to the brain are constricted, brain cells are undernourished and may be damaged. There is confusion, attention deficit, poor memory, and in the worst case, ischemic stroke. This local hypoglycemia may cause a craving for sweets.
Any significant loss of blood pressure will cause you to lose consciousness. The brain has to have blood, O2, and the right amount of glucose to function. It does not have the ability to function aerobically like muscle tissue does.

SciFi Chick
2004-Dec-10, 12:35 PM
I had heard that it could cause a stroke or a heart attack, but didn't want to say anything without a source.

When I was a kid, it never worked on me, so I just faked it. Kind of relieved now. :o

Sticks
2004-Dec-10, 04:53 PM
I just wanted a good way to cure hiccups when I had no access to a glass of water (Which never worked any hue) :roll:

SciFi Chick
2004-Dec-10, 06:53 PM
I just wanted a good way to cure hiccups when I had no access to a glass of water (Which never worked any hue) :roll:

Next time, try raising your right arm like you're trying to get called on in class.

Humphrey
2004-Dec-11, 03:38 PM
I just wanted a good way to cure hiccups when I had no access to a glass of water (Which never worked any hue) :roll:

Next time, try raising your right arm like you're trying to get called on in class.

The old holding your breath trick works for me.

Humphrey
2004-Dec-11, 03:45 PM
Speaking of some strange stuff:

Yesterday i had a mild scare. I was at the doctors office and they were doing tests on me for my citizenship stuff. Required are blood tests. So the nurse expertly took Two vials of blood from my arm. She was very good at it. No pain beyond the initial prick.

So she walks away to get my immunization form being sent by another doctor and to put away the vial. About a minute later i start to see my vision blur a bit and i feel a bit "woozy". I start to get dizzy and the next thing i know three nurses are standing voer me telling my i passed out and looked prety white.

So they sat me down and gave me some water. I still felt prety dizzyy (best explanation i can come up for it) and after throwing up that days breakfast and lieing down for about a hour and a half i felt good enought to drive home. But damn i was tired all day. At least the nurses there were exceptionally helpfull and kind to me. :-)

I mean this was two vials of blood. I can't imagine my body reacting to donating blood and a entire bag.
Is it common to pass out and get dizzy and stuff with only such a small amount of blood taken? I feel absolutely fine now after a good nights rest, but damn that was strange yesterday. I am over the weight to give blood. im 5'8" and 135 pounds. Sure im underweight for my height, but that should not matter, right?

SciFi Chick
2004-Dec-11, 03:59 PM
There are a lot of factors that go into passing out as a result of having your blood taken. It's possible the nurse hit a nerve. It's possible that you have a mild cold or something. It's possible that you reacted to seeing the blood taken from you. Your weight could be a factor. That is a pretty low weight for your height.

N C More
2004-Dec-11, 04:15 PM
I think SciFi Chick may have nailed it. I'm 5' 8" tall and weigh 145lbs and I'm a female! (ok, perhaps a slightly chubby female) but not obese. Humphrey sounds like he's tad on the thin side (as guys usually weigh more than females). However, I have a sure fire cure for him...lasagna and chocolate (no, not together but in that order). Yep, a few nice meals of lasagna followed by something chocolate for dessert. I have found that this is guaranteed to put on weight. Gee, I'm actually envious. I wish I needed to put on a few pounds! Yummm... :P

Humphrey
2004-Dec-11, 10:38 PM
I think SciFi Chick may have nailed it. I'm 5' 8" tall and weigh 145lbs and I'm a female! (ok, perhaps a slightly chubby female) but not obese. Humphrey sounds like he's tad on the thin side (as guys usually weigh more than females). However, I have a sure fire cure for him...lasagna and chocolate (no, not together but in that order). Yep, a few nice meals of lasagna followed by something chocolate for dessert. I have found that this is guaranteed to put on weight. Gee, I'm actually envious. I wish I needed to put on a few pounds! Yummm... :PNope wont work. no matter what i eat i gain nuthing except whats currently residing in my stomach.

Sci-Fi- not the seeing the blood. this happened 2-4 minutes after she had walked away. I had no problem seeing it go in the tube and after she took it out i thought "Damn that didnt hurt much at all. What was i so afraid of?"

I think it does have more to do with my weight. I know im underweight. but at least im health according to all my pysicals.

Donnie B.
2004-Dec-11, 11:23 PM
I think SciFi Chick may have nailed it. I'm 5' 8" tall and weigh 145lbs and I'm a female! (ok, perhaps a slightly chubby female) but not obese. Humphrey sounds like he's tad on the thin side (as guys usually weigh more than females). However, I have a sure fire cure for him...lasagna and chocolate (no, not together but in that order). Yep, a few nice meals of lasagna followed by something chocolate for dessert. I have found that this is guaranteed to put on weight. Gee, I'm actually envious. I wish I needed to put on a few pounds! Yummm... :PNope wont work. no matter what i eat i gain nuthing except whats currently residing in my stomach.
Just wait a few years. I used to be like you, but after I hit 45 or so, and had back trouble that reduced my activity level... well, I now have to say I used to be skinny.

I worked for a company that had a bloodmobile visit a couple times a year. One of my colleagues fainted... when they pricked his finger to take a drop of blood for the screening sample! Needless to say, they sent him on his way.

Some people just react oddly to blood, their own or others'. This may not be your situation, but perhaps it's a factor.

Donnie B.
2004-Dec-11, 11:24 PM
I think SciFi Chick may have nailed it. I'm 5' 8" tall and weigh 145lbs and I'm a female! (ok, perhaps a slightly chubby female) but not obese. Humphrey sounds like he's tad on the thin side (as guys usually weigh more than females). However, I have a sure fire cure for him...lasagna and chocolate (no, not together but in that order). Yep, a few nice meals of lasagna followed by something chocolate for dessert. I have found that this is guaranteed to put on weight. Gee, I'm actually envious. I wish I needed to put on a few pounds! Yummm... :PNope wont work. no matter what i eat i gain nuthing except whats currently residing in my stomach.
Just wait a few years. I used to be like you, but after I hit 45 or so, and had back trouble that reduced my activity level... well, I now have to say I used to be skinny.

I worked for a company that had a bloodmobile visit a couple times a year. One of my colleagues fainted... when they pricked his finger to take a drop of blood for the screening sample! Needless to say, they sent him on his way.

Some people just react oddly to blood, their own or others'. This may not be your situation, but perhaps it's a factor.

Donnie B.
2004-Dec-11, 11:27 PM
I think SciFi Chick may have nailed it. I'm 5' 8" tall and weigh 145lbs and I'm a female! (ok, perhaps a slightly chubby female) but not obese. Humphrey sounds like he's tad on the thin side (as guys usually weigh more than females). However, I have a sure fire cure for him...lasagna and chocolate (no, not together but in that order). Yep, a few nice meals of lasagna followed by something chocolate for dessert. I have found that this is guaranteed to put on weight. Gee, I'm actually envious. I wish I needed to put on a few pounds! Yummm... :PNope wont work. no matter what i eat i gain nuthing except whats currently residing in my stomach.
Just wait a few years. I used to be like you, but after I hit 45 or so, and had back trouble that reduced my activity level... well, I now have to say I used to be skinny.

I worked for a company that had a bloodmobile visit a couple times a year. One of my colleagues fainted... when they pricked his finger to take a drop of blood for the screening sample! Needless to say, they sent him on his way.

Some people just react oddly to blood, their own or others'. This may not be your situation, but perhaps it's a factor.