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sarongsong
2004-Dec-14, 07:28 AM
"...But the real tragedy of [Gary] Webb's historic gift - and of his life cut short - is that because of the major news media's callowness and cowardice, this dark chapter of the Reagan-Bush era remains largely unknown to the American people."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/121304.html

TriangleMan
2004-Dec-14, 12:03 PM
His book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1888363932/103-7346625-3195009?v=glance) about the contras appears to be interesting yet controversial. Sarongsong, I also feel that reading the comments in the above link gives a better picture of the man's work, the obituary in the link you provided is so venomous that all it did was make me think that the man was a paranoid conspiracist rather than an investigative journalist.

Still, I think I'll see if his book is available here, it sounds interesting and I had never heard of the investigation until now.

Sammy
2004-Dec-15, 05:38 AM
The investigation was widely featured in the media, at least here in the DC area.

So were the follow up investigations by several organizations, including the Washington Post, all which concluded that there was no evidence to support the central thesis--CIA support of drug sales to inner-city residents as part pf the Contra support operations.

IMO, the Reagan administration, and Reagan himself, did enuff documented illegal things to earn opprobium, not praise, so why pursue why seems to be paranoid ideation by a guy with no solid track record whatsoever?

sarongsong
2004-Dec-15, 06:37 AM
Well, all that coke sure came from somewhere and if they weren't participants, Ill bet they sure knew a lot about it---isn't that part of their job?
"CIA Inspector General Frederick R. Hitz told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March*16 that there were ties between the CIA and Central American drug dealers who supported Nicaraguan contra rebels in the 1980s (Walter Pincus, "Inspector: CIA Kept Ties With Alleged Traffickers," Washington Post, March*17, 1998, p.*A12; "CIA Official Defends Paper's Allegations," Orange County Register, March*17, 1998, p.*9)"
http://www.ndsn.org/marapr98/cia.html

Sammy
2004-Dec-15, 05:52 PM
Sarongsong wrote:


Well, all that coke sure came from somewhere..

The free enterprise system has done a pretty good job of supplying coke all arround the country, not just in LA. And, since the "expose," there doesn't seem to be a shortage anywhere.


..and if they weren't participants, Ill bet they sure knew a lot about it---isn't that part of their job?

No it's not. The CIA is banned by law from invovlement in domestic intelligence and domestic activities. Short of any real proof that they were, it seems like thay followed that regulation. Did they have contacts/dealings with drug producers in SA? Maybe, but that's not a big surprise--that is part of the job...

russ_watters
2004-Dec-16, 02:16 PM
...the obituary in the link you provided is so venomous that all it did was make me think that the man was a paranoid conspiracist rather than an investigative journalist. Perhaps he was...

TriangleMan
2004-Dec-16, 02:46 PM
...the obituary in the link you provided is so venomous that all it did was make me think that the man was a paranoid conspiracist rather than an investigative journalist. Perhaps he was...
Or perhaps the person who wrote the obituary is. I'll see if I can find the book, and possibly do a bit more research, before I reach a conclusion on Mr. Webb.

sarongsong
2004-Dec-17, 01:05 AM
Obit (http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2004/12/15/184725/08) by someone who knew him well.

TriangleMan
2004-Dec-17, 12:20 PM
That was a pretty strange obituary/rant as well (and should have a warning for adult content) but was an interesting read nonetheless.

russ_watters
2004-Dec-17, 03:13 PM
That was a pretty strange obituary/rant as well (and should have a warning for adult content) but was an interesting read nonetheless. Considering the source, it strengthens my feeling that maybe he was a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

sarongsong
2004-Dec-18, 02:39 AM
A more balanced summary, perhaps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb

sarongsong
2004-Dec-20, 07:37 AM
The Internet plays a major role in The Gary Webb Story, from his casual confirmation (p. 5, Dark Alliance) of the roller-coaster first tip:
"...Flipping on my computer, I logged into the Dialog (http://www.dialog.com/) database...If you've ever been written about or done something significant in court, chances are Dialog will find you..."
through the San Jose Mercury News' website that mirrored its hardcopy editions, featuring his 1996 serials (since removed), reproduced here (http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/webb.html), along with a few follow-up by-lines and a transcript of his illuminating 1999 Eugene, Oregon talk, complete with its Q&A session.

sarongsong
2005-Jun-07, 03:50 AM
June 6, 2005 (http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000946785)
"...Kevin Carmody hardly needed the reassurances of Austin readers to cement his standing as a leading environmental and investigative reporter. Before he joined the American-Statesman in 2000, he had built up an impressive resume of more than two decades of work, as well as a reputation for checking the facts and airtight sourcing for his stories. From his days as editor of the campus newspaper at Marquette University in Milwaukee, through his first full-time reporting job at The Beaumont (Texas) Enterprise, to jobs in Chicago and Virginia, Carmody became something of a legend to other environmental writers..."

Sammy
2005-Jun-07, 09:05 PM
sarongsong, I feel sorry for this guy, his family, and friends. He obviously was talented, but had his demons.

That said, this is (sadly) hardly rare or unusual. Tho I've not dealt with with the national environmental press for some three years now, I never heard of this guy, and he was apparently not in the top ranks of journalists. Since you appended this to the Webb thread are you implying something sinister here, or were you just struck by the personal tragedy?

Lurker
2005-Jun-07, 09:26 PM
Well, all that coke sure came from somewhere and if they weren't participants, Ill bet they sure knew a lot about it---isn't that part of their job?

This is the major issue I have with some of your posts sarongsong the fact that the coke came from somewhere doesn't support your argument to its specific source. The CIA has a number of responsibilities and they have not always carried those responsibilities out with great success. It's possible they knew about it... it's also possible that they screwed up and didn't. If you want to argue the former, you need evidence. If I want to argue the latter I would need enidence too. In the absence of evidence either is possible.



"CIA Inspector General Frederick R. Hitz told the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March*16 that there were ties between the CIA and Central American drug dealers who supported Nicaraguan contra rebels in the 1980s (Walter Pincus, "Inspector: CIA Kept Ties With Alleged Traffickers," Washington Post, March*17, 1998, p.*A12; "CIA Official Defends Paper's Allegations," Orange County Register, March*17, 1998, p.*9)"
http://www.ndsn.org/marapr98/cia.html
This is interesting, but vague. It certainly doesn't provide any sort of link between the CIA and specific drug shipments.

sarongsong
2005-Jun-08, 02:30 AM
...Since you appended this to the Webb thread are you implying something sinister here, or were you just struck by the personal tragedy?Struck by the personal tragedy, his fastidiousness and that we've 'lost' another investigative writer. (I'd not heard of him before, either.) Also, could not help thinking of the growing list of dead scientists (http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/UpdatedDeadScientists.html).

...The CIA has a number of responsibilities...Fair points, Lurker; and where do you suppose oil and drugs rank on their list of responsibilities?

Cylinder
2005-Jun-08, 02:42 AM
list of dead scientists (http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/UpdatedDeadScientists.html)

Nice link. I need one of those electromagnetic weather control machines (http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Tech/041231.Beard_weather.html) to help me with my watermelons. Do you know if Home Depot has them yet?

01101001
2005-Jun-08, 02:51 AM
Nice link. I need one of those electromagnetic weather control machines (http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Tech/041231.Beard_weather.html) to help me with my watermelons. Do you know if Home Depot has them yet?

In the woo-woo aisle, next to the healing crystals.

Dang, I wish those scientists would stop dying. Why do they do that?

Is anyone keeping a list of scientists created?

sarongsong
2005-Jun-08, 03:05 AM
...I need one of those electromagnetic weather control machines (http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Tech/041231.Beard_weather.html) to help me with my watermelons. Do you know if Home Depot has them yet?Good find, yourself...naw, I'm still wrestling with EM's (http://www.eminfo.info/index.html#Introduction), but will check HD for you, as I seem to be there every day now. :D

Sammy
2005-Jun-08, 05:16 AM
Any website using the term scalar automatically qualifies as "High Woo Woo."

As for dead scientists, the total number od deaths for the U.S. in 2001 (the latest data I could find) was 2,417,000 or over 6,600 per day. Is it surprising that scientists are among the departed. Sarongsong, if you think that there is some significance to the link you provided, please share it with the rest of the class. If not, why post it?

Lurker
2005-Jun-08, 04:39 PM
...The CIA has a number of responsibilities...Fair points, Lurker; and where do you suppose oil and drugs rank on their list of responsibilities?
I would say fairly high. You point out an interestiong situation, however, it's quite possible to have the same results you point to by doing the job badly. Where is your evidence to point to conspiracy over incompetence??