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banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Dec-15, 11:19 AM
Why is alcohol an "accepted" killer? I mean the only people that seem to point out the fact that alcohol is a killer are MADD. Look at cigarettes and the warnings attached to them and ask yourself if there isn't a disparity.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Dec-15, 11:23 AM
link

http://www.ucsf.edu/daybreak/1999/12/03_sound.html

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2004-Dec-15, 11:24 AM
another

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2004/s1092170.htm

Amadeus
2004-Dec-15, 11:50 AM
Life with a vice is for me twice as nice. :wink:

I know it is a killer but if we are going to go down the road of putting warnings or banning on everything that may harm yourself or others then
we will be living in a very different society.

You could argue that cars should be banned and that everyone uses public transport. This would save thousands of lives a year. You could argue that fatty foods should be banned this would also save a lot of lifes.
With fatty foods it's not just yourself your harming but it's the people waiting for treatment in the waiting list behind you who are needing life saving operations.

There are age limits for most things that can harm. The warnings on the cigerate packages need to be there because there was a general ignorence of the dangers of smoking. However most people know about the dangers of excessive drinking and there are warnings (I asume, I can only talk about the UK) of drinking and driving.

frogesque
2004-Dec-15, 12:00 PM
Alchohol can be a pleasant experience, it can also be a killer. taken occasionally in moderation for most folk it's not a problem. There are others however who should never drink.

Knew a guy who was one of the greatest, quite gifted and intellegent. 1/2 pint of larger and he wanted to fight (literally) everyone in the place. It was like throwing a light switch. He came from a background of alchoholisim, a brother and sister also had acute problems (though different in nature). Their father had aslo been afflicted and the family either inherited the disease or were conditioned to it from birth. They are the exception but for people like that abstinance is the only solution.

Drink/driving is a crime - no ifs buts or maybes - one strike and your out. Period.

jt-3d
2004-Dec-15, 12:37 PM
I'm planning on having me one of them pleasant experiences in a half hour when I get off work. I don't need no warning labels, I wouldn't read them anyway. Besides there's already warning labels, on beer at least, but I'm not a pregnant mother nor will I be operating machinery, except maybe a virtual heavy bomber or a rifle or two.

Wally
2004-Dec-15, 01:22 PM
the chemically induced altering of perception doesn't seem to be limited to humans. I recall seeing a film where elephants ate up fermented fruit to the point of intoxication. Considering the distinctive taste such fruit would have, and the fact the elephants did not avoid them (and in fact, appeared to seek them out), one could argue consuming alcohol may be in our genetic make up!

(and yes, I'm playing devil's advocate here. . .). :)

Candy
2004-Dec-15, 01:58 PM
It's not the alcohol that kills, it's the people who drink the alcohol in excess that kill.

They sometimes kill other people. They sometimes kill relationships. They sometimes kill their careers. They sometimes kill themselves. :(

If you are going to drink, drink in moderation. I certainly believe nothing is wrong with drinking. Some even think it's a healthy choice. :D

Nicolas
2004-Dec-15, 02:01 PM
People always say I have an alcohol problem. That is so wrong!! If there is one person who has no problem at all with alcohol it's me!

(just for the sake of the joke)

Serious on topic, the problem with alcohol is the dangers of using it a lot, or drinking and driving and the like. There is no problem with drinking alcoholic drinks if you stay within reasonable borders considering your tasks and your handling with alcohol. There is such a difference between drinking a little alcohol, and lots (and regularly). Classifying alcohol in the same category as chocolate and coffee, or amongst harddrugs really depends on how much people use it. That makes alcohol such a difficult subject.

captain swoop
2004-Dec-15, 02:11 PM
Alcohol is so easy to produce it would be impossible to enforce a ban.

Just crush the juice out of apples, the natural yeasts on the skin will ferment it, result - Scrumpy. Stick it in a freezer and seperate the alcohol if you want something stronger.

Swift
2004-Dec-15, 02:29 PM
I don't understand why alcohol is a legal mood-altering substance and other substances are not legal. Based purely on health effects, I would suspect that cigarettes should be the most illegal. But our laws are not that rational. I suspect that they are based on mixture of history, politics and lobbies, and various moral / religous beliefs.

Personally I would legalize all the mind altering substances for personal use, for adults only, and as long as you didn't harm anyone else. So driving under the influence, for example, should be illegal, whether the influence is alcohol or drugs. I'm not advocating the use of any of these things, though I think moderate use of the less toxic ones is fine, but if you want to mess up your life, why is that the government's business.

I thought we proved in the 1930s with Prohibition that making a particular substance illegal does not get rid of it and just makes the criminal distrubutors of it that much richer (the user has to cover the cost of their risk taking). IMHO the "War on Drugs" is a stupid, expensive joke.

Ut
2004-Dec-15, 03:12 PM
Penn & Teller did a really good episode on the War on Drugs.

In that vein, which is similar to Swift's view, I think the real question is not why is alcohol legal while others are not, but rather why are other drugs illegal while alcohol isn't.

There are obviously some drugs that should be very tightly regulated. I'd argue that something like heroine should be kept out of the hands of most people. Then again, I'd also argue that something like nicotine should also be severely limited in its distribution. Not because of the harm done to one's body by these drugs, but rather because they're rather insanely addictive.

Most narcotics are banned because at one point in time or another, a group or groups of people who used them were considered lazy or immoral. At the same time, advocates of these substances love to point out that some of the world's greatest pieces of art were made under the influence. Music, poetry, paintings, all done by people who were crazy on the drugs. Something we tend to forget or ignore when we go to the museum, or pop that CD into our walkman.

TimH
2004-Dec-15, 04:34 PM
Most narcotics are banned because at one point in time or another, a group or groups of people who used them were considered lazy or immoral.

Here's a bit of trivia for the board. The reason marijuana was made illegal is because cotton growers had better lobbyists in Washington than hemp growers.

Cannabis, the plant that is used to make marijuana can also be turned into hemp, a material very similar to cotton, except it's cheaper to harvest and turn into cloth and it grows in just about anything. As a result cotton growers were, in economic terms, getting their teeth kicked in.

To stop this threat to their prosperity, "the evils of marijuana" came to light and cotton's lobbyists managed to get enough votes to ban marijuana and the hemp threat went away as well.

Candy
2004-Dec-15, 04:47 PM
Doesn't Michigan have the 'annual weed fest'? I remember my buddies driving up there once a year, pay a fine, and smoke weed. :roll:

Guess where they are now?

Guess where I am?

russ_watters
2004-Dec-15, 05:10 PM
Why is alcohol an "accepted" killer? I mean the only people that seem to point out the fact that alcohol is a killer are MADD. Look at cigarettes and the warnings attached to them and ask yourself if there isn't a disparity. Its pretty simple: alcohol can be used safely. Cigarettes cannot.

Amadeus
2004-Dec-15, 05:11 PM
I feel it my duty to point out that a while back I started a topic about the legality of drugs and it's pro's and cons. With a focus on cannabis.

That thread got locked. Whilst I would like to discuss these issues it would not be fair to get banquo's thread locked because of an slightly OT discussion. And maybe this is not the place because of the age of some readers. I do not want to give the impression that children can take any altering substances.

Swift
2004-Dec-15, 06:06 PM
...I do not want to give the impression that children can take any altering substances.
I agree and I mentioned that indirectly in my posting. Children are not emotionally mature enough to make decisions about the consequences of the use of these substances (including cigarettes) and the biological effects of these substances on their bodies is very different (and usually harsher) than adults.

kucharek
2004-Dec-15, 08:02 PM
...I do not want to give the impression that children can take any altering substances.
I agree and I mentioned that indirectly in my posting. Children are not emotionally mature enough to make decisions about the consequences of the use of these substances (including cigarettes) and the biological effects of these substances on their bodies is very different (and usually harsher) than adults.

Even many adults aren't mature enough for that.

sarongsong
2004-Dec-15, 10:22 PM
That the government(s) collect vast sums of money in the form of taxes on alcohol and tobacco is another reason for their 'allow-ance'. Have noticed recent TV ads beginning to appear, ever so slowly, of various liqueurs, too.

Candy
2004-Dec-15, 10:29 PM
That the government(s) collect vast sums of money in the form of taxes on alcohol and tobacco is another reason for their 'allow-ance'. Have noticed recent TV ads beginning to appear, ever so slowly, of various liqueurs, too.
I saw today that Mayor Daily proposed taxes for all of the above, except alcholol. He suggested $1 tax per tire instead. 8-[

TinFoilHat
2004-Dec-15, 10:29 PM
Remember folks - they tried to ban alcohol in my country nearly a century ago. It was a total failure, in part because alcohol is so easy to make. Interestingly enough, at the time what we now consider hard drugs like cocaine and opium were legal. It wasn't till after alcohol was made illegal that the goverment started going after the other drugs.

dgruss23
2004-Dec-15, 11:21 PM
I don't understand why alcohol is a legal mood-altering substance and other substances are not legal. Based purely on health effects, I would suspect that cigarettes should be the most illegal. But our laws are not that rational. I suspect that they are based on mixture of history, politics and lobbies, and various moral / religous beliefs.

There are several simple physiological reasons why alcohol can be seperated out. First, alcohol is ingested which means your body has reverse peristalsis as a natural mechanism for dealing with over-indulgence. So your stomach can warn you when you're starting to go to far. That is not always the case with drugs that are smoked, inhaled, injected ...

Second, some of these drugs are highly toxic and addictive after minimal usage. There's no such thing as "experimenting" with certain drugs. You try it - your life is altered forever. I personally am against making it easier for people to destroy themselves and those around them with such substances.

Third, along with the last, it doesn't take very much to OD on these drugs and you don't necessarily know what "dose" you're getting. A person drinking alcohol knows that a shot of hard liquor packs more punch than a beer. A person taking crack can OD before they have a clue they've taken too much.


Personally I would legalize all the mind altering substances for personal use, for adults only, and as long as you didn't harm anyone else.

I wouldn't. Our society already allows cigarettes and alcohol. If you can't meet your recreational needs with those items then you're goals too destructive anyway.


I thought we proved in the 1930s with Prohibition that making a particular substance illegal does not get rid of it and just makes the criminal distrubutors of it that much richer (the user has to cover the cost of their risk taking). IMHO the "War on Drugs" is a stupid, expensive joke.

You could make the same argument about murder. Its expensive to prosecute it. You're never going to eliminate it from society. And there are some that get very rich in the process of engaging in it. That doesn't mean we should give up and make it legal.

My observation of the debate on this issue has been that the people in favor of making all these drugs legal usually either use this "too expensive to fight drugs not going to wipe them out anyway" argument or use the illegal drugs.

I always liked the "Just Say No" public education program of the 80's. Its a simple, catchy way to send the message to kids that illegal drugs are to be avoided.

Ut
2004-Dec-16, 12:03 AM
I wouldn't. Our society already allows cigarettes and alcohol. If you can't meet your recreational needs with those items then you're goals too destructive anyway.

I suspect this is going to be the point where things get touchy, but I'm going to say it anyway: Who are you to say that what I do to my body on my own time is or is not "too destructive"? Why is that a value judgement that you feel you have the right to make for someone else?

Here's an analog argument that I think will strike some people here rather close: We already have video games where people can attack giant monkies with mallets, and throw fire at monster lizards. If you can't meet your recreational needs with those games, then your goals are too destructive anyway.

dgruss23
2004-Dec-16, 12:35 AM
I wouldn't. Our society already allows cigarettes and alcohol. If you can't meet your recreational needs with those items then you're goals too destructive anyway.

I suspect this is going to be the point where things get touchy, but I'm going to say it anyway: Who are you to say that what I do to my body on my own time is or is not "too destructive"? Why is that a value judgement that you feel you have the right to make for someone else?

Well first, let me say that I'm not interested in getting into a flame war on this. Your response does not upset me so please don't worry about a knee-jerk reaction. :)

As for your point. Our legal system makes that decision all the time. My state has a seat-belt law. If you're in a car,van,suv ... you have to wear a seatbelt or you can be ticketed. Overall it protects lives. Perhaps some people find less enjoyment during the driving experience because of the law, but it is deemed for the greater good of all to have such a law. If you want to hunt you have to sit through a hunter-safety course.

My point wasn't really about making judgements as to what is "too destructive". If someone wants to find some of these illegal drugs and destroy themselves, they'll find a way. It seems pretty clear that the those drugs are self-destructive. I don't think the government should make it easier for those people by making the drugs legal.

In addition, it almost never can be reduced to "its my body so mind your own business". Most people have families, friends, and co-workers. Use of the illegal drugs increases the risk a person poses to those around them. In particular the children - enough has been documented about the negative impacts alcoholism can have on children. I don't see why as a society we should introduce legal access to a whole new set of even more dangerous drugs and expose children to that.

What separates alcohol from the other drugs is that there is a much larger range of tolerance for what constitutes "moderation" or "responsible use". Its possible to drink alcohol in moderation. What is moderate use of crack, heroin, ...?

Virtually every law has as its purpose the goal of protecting the greater good of society. And most of these laws infringe in some way on our freedom to do exactly as we please without consequence. Laws are passed when the consequences of allowing something to be legal are much greater than the consequences of limiting individual freedoms to allow people to do as they please. IMO the illegal drugs clearly fall into that category.

electromagneticpulse
2004-Dec-16, 01:50 AM
Why is alcohol an "accepted" killer? I mean the only people that seem to point out the fact that alcohol is a killer are MADD. Look at cigarettes and the warnings attached to them and ask yourself if there isn't a disparity.

It also makes your heart stronger and you more healthy if you use it smartly. Most people don't, but the accepted thing is it makes people look more socially acceptable, much to peoples regret in the morning :lol:

Careless
2004-Dec-16, 02:08 AM
Remember folks - they tried to ban alcohol in my country nearly a century ago. It was a total failure, in part because alcohol is so easy to make. Interestingly enough, at the time what we now consider hard drugs like cocaine and opium were legal. It wasn't till after alcohol was made illegal that the goverment started going after the other drugs.
the irony there is that it took a constitutional amendment to outlaw alcohol. But somehow congress gained the power to outlaw chemicals after that...

Tbutyl
2004-Dec-16, 03:23 AM
The libertarian in me believes that drugs should be legalized. However, the few law enforcement officers that I have talked to about legalization of drugs (marijuana included) were all against it. Since these are the folks in the trenches, dealing with the drug problems every day, if I had to vote right now, I would go along with the folks I spoke with and vote against legalization.

I rarely drink alcohol, but in a Mexican Restaurant, washing down a hot tamale or a spicy enchilada with an ice cold DOS XX seems to make the meal taste that much better. Or when I go to the local minor league ballgame, it just seems natural to have a couple of Dodger Dogs and a cup or two of flat beer. With my mass, the one or two beers I drink with my meal or at the ballgame will have an insignificant physiological effect on me. The point is, for a variety of reasons, millions of people drink a beer, have a glass of wine, or whatever because they enjoy it, not because they want to get wasted. I am not sure the same can be said for other “recreational” drugs. It is my understanding, the whole point of taking those drugs is to get high.

captain swoop
2004-Dec-16, 11:21 AM
A pal of mine had a heart attack six weeks ago, they put stent pipes in and he is OK now, anyway the Doc encouraged him to drink up to 3 units a day, it helps the blood flow apparently.

R.A.F.
2004-Dec-16, 01:14 PM
There seems to be a lot of subjective opinions being bounced around here...for that reason, I will not be participating in this discussion.

sarongsong
2004-Dec-18, 02:53 AM
Most narcotics are banned because at one point in time or another, a group or groups of people who used them were considered lazy or immoral.

Here's a bit of trivia for the board. The reason marijuana was made illegal is because cotton growers had better lobbyists in Washington than hemp growers...
Another version (http://www.thebear.org/essays.html):
"... Marijuana was made illegal in the 1937 to remove a threat to the synthetic fibers made by DuPont, just as the same company has connived a ban on Freon, now that their patent on it has run out..."

Back on (expensive) topic (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1538&u=/afp/20041217/wl_uk_afp/britainchristmascrime_041217174537&printer=1):
"Britain made merry-making with drunken excess grounds for a steep fine during the Christmas season, with the government attempting to rein in a worrying and widespread problem of binge-drinking.
Measures which take effect this weekend and run through January include raising the fines for disorderly behavior and allowing police officers to issue on-the-spot penalties for illegal alcohol sales to minors..."

genebujold
2004-Dec-18, 11:53 AM
Whether or not alcohold is "ok" depends entirely upon three things:

1. One's genetic background

2. One's upbringing

3. One's personal level of self-control

Before you say, "oh, no! It affects everyone!", consider the fact that some genetic lineages tolerate cow's milk without a problem, while in others, it makes them deathly ill.

Same goes for many other foods. In fact, the only "universal" food out there is rice, perhaps because it's the first grass on the planet that was regularly eaten by humans, and is therefore the most compatible with most races.

Back to my three things:

My grandfather drank from 16 until he was 78, then lived another ten very healthy years. At 89 he was still shoveling snow from his, and his neighbors', driveways. He lives in Iowa, and that's a lot of snow! Alas, that's how he fell and broke his hip. He underwent hip replacement surgury, walked well for another two years, then went downhill for two years and died in his sleep when he was 93.

Then again, my grandfather came from a very long line of drinkers, meaning that his ancestors, perhaps 15,000 years ago, were drinking fermented honey and other fermented drinks. Over time, those who's bodies or personalities couldn't handle it were either ostracized or diseased. Either way, they had fewer children, leaving others, with genes better suited to drinking, to live on.

And he had an iron constitution - incredible level of personal discipline. He never went beyond 4 beers a night, because someone, somewhere, long ago, told him that those who drink more than 4 beers a night are drunks. He didn't want to be thought of as a drunk, so...

Bottom lines:

1. Don't ever think you come from "good stock," as even my grandfather had weaknesses. His daughter, my aunt, was a cosmic lush, and she's been sober now for just ten years, and still living in her "last chance" housing in California.

2. Don't ever think you have an iron will, particular if you've ever been drunk. My grandfather got drunk. Once. When he was 16. He never got drunk again.

3. Don't ever think because you were exposed to drinking at an early age that you've "got it under control."

You see, I meet all three of these qualifications, yet the sad fact about it is that I'm an alcoholic.

It's not that I can't quit drinking, or that I've been a drunken driver (only once, never caught), or that I'm abusive when I'm drunk (not at all), or disruptive (my wife says I'm a "content drinker"), or that I'm unable to care for myself or my family (I just go to bed drunk then wake up for another day).

I have none of the typical withdrawal symptoms, even if I've drunk a 1.5 liter bottle of 12.5% wine each night for a month.

My problem is that once I start drinking at night, I can't stop. If we have a 750ml bottle, I'll polish that off before walking to the store to get another. If I have a 1.5L bottle, I'll finish it off before the evening is over.

I've always been like that, whether I'd bought a six-pack or a bottle of wine. Thankfully, I've rarely bought a bottle of liquor.

Folks - that's the truth about drinking. It affects everyone differently. What defines an "alcoholic" is whether the individual is willing to admit they're no longer able, or willing, to drink in moderation.

Moderate drinking, defined as a glass of red wine a night (two if you're a big person), is beneficial. Anything more, however, is more than moderate. If you do more than that a night, or more than that during any given period of summated times (3 glasses in a 3-day period), then you're a good candidate for being, or becoming, an alcoholic.

The sad thing is, like most diseases, if caught early, you're ok. If it's not caught until later in life, you'll have health, family, work, relational, and other problems as a result.

If it's never caught, you'll eventually die from it.

If you want more info: http://www.aa.org/

If you're someone who lives, works, or otherwise associates with someone you may believe is an alcoholic, tap into the resources available at Al-Anon/Alateen, where you'll learn what does work, and what doesn't work, around alcoholics: http://www.alanon.org/

Good luck, and do the right thing, because no matter how healthy your genes may be, they're not going to protect you from any quantity of alcohol sufficient to kill you.

In Memorial to "the lady who lived downstairs." If we'd only have known what to do, she may very well be alive today.

Amadeus
2004-Dec-18, 12:16 PM
Seeing as this is the season for it maybe we should post our christmass party stories.

I've just had my work do and yes I got a bit drunk.
MY company holds a party every year with a "free bar" not sure if that expression is used elsewhere in the world but it means that everything behind the bar is free. Think about monkeys with keys to the banana plantation etc..

At the time I was thinking about this thread so I thought I would try an experiment.

This is what I ate
1 bowl of soup (potato and leak with 2 pieces of bread
Turky dinner with ham and roast spuds
I christmass pud

This is what I drank IIRC.
8 pints of Stella
4 double whiskys
5 Tequila slammers.( with lemon and salt )
One glasss of white wine with the meal.
Before anyone says "how can you remember this" I was keeping a small tally on a piece of paper during the night.

Appart from being a bit unsteady I had no ill effects. I was not abusive and I did not vomit. I did however atempt to play the hotel piano #-o

I left about 2:30AM got a taxi, went home, decided it would not be a good idea to make this post until I was sobre.

I did have a slight hangover but this went away after an hour.

Now I have a few tips when it comes to drinking. Do not take this as incouragement but if you are going to go out drinkingit's better to be safe.

1 always eat lunch before a night out.
2 just before you go out drink a pint of milk
3 eat something salty during the night
4 never, ever have access to your car. Leave the keys at home.
5 Think before you speak
6 Get a taxi
7 When you get back drink 2 pints of cold water (this is very important and will limit the hangover)
8 If you get the "room spinning" effect when lying in bed, sleep with one foot on the floor. This will stop the motion sickness.
9 When you wake up have a cooked greasy breakfast with salt.
10 Send me some money for giving you this great advice!

Now as a european my ancestry has a tollerence for drinking. This is partly because our ancesters could not drink the water because it was so polluted. We therefore drank a lot of light beer to get our fluids. Those that could not handle beer either drank water and died out or got so drunk they couldn't breed.

jt-3d
2004-Dec-18, 02:15 PM
MY company holds a party every year with a "free bar" not sure if that expression.
That would be 'open bar' for us here but free bar works just as well and it's the greatest invention ever!

Think about monkeys with keys to the banana plantation etc..
Funny stuff.

At the time I was thinking about this thread so I thought I would try an experiment.

This is what I ate
1 bowl of soup (potato and leak with 2 pieces of bread
Turky dinner with ham and roast spuds
I christmass pud

Sounds yummy and yeah, eating is important.

This is what I drank IIRC.
8 pints of Stella
4 double whiskys
5 Tequila slammers.( with lemon and salt )
One glasss of white wine with the meal.
Before anyone says "how can you remember this" I was keeping a small tally on a piece of paper during the night.

Wow!

Appart from being a bit unsteady I had no ill effects. I was not abusive and I did not vomit. I did however atempt to play the hotel piano #-o
I doubt your claim but the piano story does lend it some credibility.

I left about 2:30AM got a taxi, went home, decided it would not be a good idea to make this post until I was sobre.

Too bad, drunk posters can be fun.

I did have a slight hangover but this went away after an hour.

Try the same thing a few nights in a row. I think you got lucky or maybe they serve good booze at your parties.

Now I have a few tips when it comes to drinking. Do not take this as incouragement but if you are going to go out drinkingit's better to be safe.
Left this in for consistancy


1 always eat lunch before a night out.
Indeed!

2 just before you go out drink a pint of milk
Again I am doubtful but I've never tried it. I did drink a couple of big glasses of milk the next day. Never ever do that, I thought my stomach would explode.

3 eat something salty during the night
This will make you drink more so yeah, go for it!

4 never, ever have access to your car. Leave the keys at home.
I always make the wife drive.

5 Think before you speak
Not likely to happen but try. I can't even think before I post when I'm hammered.

6 Get a taxi
Or the wife. Can't say I've never driven hammered myself but I can say I don't anymore. Besides walking gets you drunker.

7 When you get back drink 2 pints of cold water (this is very important and will limit the hangover)
Indeed, most of a hangover is caused by dehydration. Booze is indeed wet but don't let that fool you.

8 If you get the "room spinning" effect when lying in bed, sleep with one foot on the floor. This will stop the motion sickness.
Now you tell me.

9 When you wake up have a cooked greasy breakfast with salt.

Oh yeah, I wake up starving usually. That movie Memphis Belle was flat out wrong. Breakfast really helps in these trying times.

10 Send me some money for giving you this great advice!
I thought you said the bar was free!

Now as a european my ancestry has a tollerence for drinking. This is partly because our ancesters could not drink the water because it was so polluted. We therefore drank a lot of light beer to get our fluids. Those that could not handle beer either drank water and died out or got so drunk they couldn't breed.
So don't drink the water, drink delicious booze! Regretably I confess, I just got home from work and haven't even had one beer so I can't blame this on that so I guess I'm just being a smart aleck.

Wow, Jay really has to work when he carpet bombs threads.

Sorry for the length, just having some fun to kick off my weekend.

Amadeus
2004-Dec-18, 05:09 PM
MY company holds a party every year with a "free bar" not sure if that expression.
That would be 'open bar' for us here but free bar works just as well and it's the greatest invention ever!

You're right it is!



Think about monkeys with keys to the banana plantation etc..
Funny stuff.

Thank you.



At the time I was thinking about this thread so I thought I would try an experiment.

This is what I ate
1 bowl of soup (potato and leak with 2 pieces of bread
Turky dinner with ham and roast spuds
I christmass pud

Sounds yummy and yeah, eating is important.
Very yummy, and eating is the most important part of the drinking night IMHO.



This is what I drank IIRC.
8 pints of Stella
4 double whiskys
5 Tequila slammers.( with lemon and salt )
One glasss of white wine with the meal.
Before anyone says "how can you remember this" I was keeping a small tally on a piece of paper during the night.

Wow!
Well it was all in the interest of science. :D



Appart from being a bit unsteady I had no ill effects. I was not abusive and I did not vomit. I did however atempt to play the hotel piano #-o
I doubt your claim but the piano story does lend it some credibility. I'am sorry that you doubt my word! I have never been an abusive drunk and on those ocasions were I find the need to bring up the contents of my belly I always find a safe and private place to do so. The words "Armitage shanks" come to mind.



I left about 2:30AM got a taxi, went home, decided it would not be a good idea to make this post until I was sobre.

Too bad, drunk posters can be fun.
Not always. It's better to be safe than banned.



I did have a slight hangover but this went away after an hour.

Try the same thing a few nights in a row. I think you got lucky or maybe they serve good booze at your parties.
It was good booze but I've never had much problems with hangovers.



Now I have a few tips when it comes to drinking. Do not take this as incouragement but if you are going to go out drinkingit's better to be safe.
Left this in for consistancy
Fair enough, so will I.



1 always eat lunch before a night out.
Indeed!
See quote #3



2 just before you go out drink a pint of milk
Again I am doubtful but I've never tried it. I did drink a couple of big glasses of milk the next day. Never ever do that, I thought my stomach would explode.Again I am doubted! What have I do to deserve such ill treatment! Let me explain.... The milk acts as a stomoch liner. It slows and reduces the absorbsion of the drink through the stomoch lining.



3 eat something salty during the night
This will make you drink more so yeah, go for it!
Thank you for the permission. I shall. :D btw pork scratchings are the best if you can get them.



4 never, ever have access to your car. Leave the keys at home.
I always make the wife drive.
What about her needs?
jt-3d"]
5 Think before you speak
Not likely to happen but try. I can't even think before I post when I'm hammered.
See quote #6



6 Get a taxi
Or the wife. Can't say I've never driven hammered myself but I can say I don't anymore. Besides walking gets you drunker.
a) See quote #12
b) Never, not even once
c)This is true I think. It also sobers you up faster though.



7 When you get back drink 2 pints of cold water (this is very important and will limit the hangover)
Indeed, most of a hangover is caused by dehydration. Booze is indeed wet but don't let that fool you.

This is the reason for my reply in quote #7



8 If you get the "room spinning" effect when lying in bed, sleep with one foot on the floor. This will stop the motion sickness.
Now you tell me.

You never asked! Everyone should be taught this basic rule. Go forth and spread the word! :D



9 When you wake up have a cooked greasy breakfast with salt.

Oh yeah, I wake up starving usually. That movie Memphis Belle was flat out wrong. Breakfast really helps in these trying times.

My standard is Bacon, Soss, eggs, fried bread, fried tomato, baked beans and a mug of sweet milky tea. Never attempt to cook this for yourselfs. Go down to your local cafe.




10 Send me some money for giving you this great advice!
I thought you said the bar was free!

The bar was free my advice however is not.... I will accept postal orders.



Now as a european my ancestry has a tollerence for drinking. This is partly because our ancesters could not drink the water because it was so polluted. We therefore drank a lot of light beer to get our fluids. Those that could not handle beer either drank water and died out or got so drunk they couldn't breed.
So don't drink the water, drink delicious booze! Regretably I confess, I just got home from work and haven't even had one beer so I can't blame this on that so I guess I'm just being a smart aleck.
Hello Alec, glad to here that you are smart! Now that we have modern filtration systems we have however lost the excuse for constant drinking. Sorry.


Wow, Jay really has to work when he carpet bombs threads.
Alec who is Jay?


Sorry for the length, just having some fun to kick off my weekend.
Thats ok but don't make a habit of it. Have a good weekend.

beskeptical
2004-Dec-19, 01:51 AM
It's not the alcohol that kills, it's the people who drink the alcohol in excess that kill.

....Well, not exactly. Though you did mention moderation, alcohol is quite toxic in large doses. And, quite damaging in large doses over time, especially to the nervous system and liver.

beskeptical
2004-Dec-19, 02:08 AM
Whether or not alcohold is "ok" depends entirely upon three things:

1. One's genetic background

2. One's upbringing

3. One's personal level of self-control

.....Exactly.

Alcoholism is very damaging. (I notice your misspelling of alcohol is a bit of a Freudian slip if it wasn't on purpose.)

Intoxicated driving can be very damaging, as can intoxicated swimming and a number of other activities.

Both of those problems can be insidious. You don't know which drink will be the one that takes you from a drinker to an alcoholic but once you have taken it, changing becomes incredibly difficult.

And since intoxication is also insidious plus it greatly impairs your judgment, certain drinking patterns put you at great risk for drunk driving.

But clearly many people drink in moderation and never have problems.

I'd say if you get drunk on occasion &/or if you drink every day you should seriously look at your alcohol consumption. While young people get drunk and do not necessarily end up alcoholics, alcoholics get drunk before they become addicted. And, alcohol is a mitigating factor in all sorts of accidents from drowning to car crashes. The one thing people in those cases have in common is they didn't think it could happen to them.

Once you cross the line, you can't hit the undo key.