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The Rat
2002-Jun-20, 01:43 AM
A little internet snooping has led me to believe that ngant17 is Nathan M. Gant, and is also responsible for this sort of stuff;


http://www.beyond-the-illusion.com/files/Altered-States/Dreams/dream.txt

Need I say more...?

Jigsaw
2002-Jun-20, 03:13 AM
1. So?
2. You know, if I thought people were snooping around, invading MY privacy by trying to find out who I really was, I'd be upset. One of the nice things about Internet message boards is that you can be fairly anonymous. So why the Mission From God to find out who he is?

He's a BAMB poster. So what? We've got 600-plus others, you gonna track them down, too? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=621

The Rat
2002-Jun-20, 03:18 AM
On 2002-06-19 23:13, Jigsaw wrote:
invading MY privacy

I'm not invading his privacy. All I did was punch his 'handle' in to Google and look at the returns. If that's invasion of privacy then you'd better go after anyone who goes to a library and searches for books by a particular author. There is no difference.

_________________
Bailey’s second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Rat on 2002-06-19 23:19 ]</font>

widosm
2002-Jun-20, 11:24 AM
That text isn't totally crackpot. It looks a lot like he's just doing Lucid Dreaming. All the stuff about waking yourself up at odd times and doing some activity before resuming sleep is a very popular method of lucid dream induction. The fun of lucid dreaming is that, because you are to a lesser or greater extent in control of your dreams, you can do what you want. If you think 'I want an OOBE' then chance's are that, in this state, you will have one.
Sorry this is a bit OT...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: widoxm on 2002-06-20 07:25 ]</font>

Jigsaw
2002-Jun-21, 02:23 AM
By "invasion of privacy", I mean threads whose specific purpose is to announce, "Hey, everybody, guess who Poster So-And-So really is!"

I hang out at several other Internet message boards, and it's an unspoken assumption at all of them that a person's real life identity is his own business, and that if you do ever find out who somebody really is, you don't start threads to announce it.

Is my point.

Also, I disagree with an unspoken assumption here at the BABB, which unfortunately seems to pop up frequently, that Hoax Believers are fair game to be made fun of. They deserve our education, not our derision. The occasional involuntary guffaw at their expense may be forgiven, but a entire thread whose only purpose is to announce, "Hey, everybody, I found out who Poster Such-and-Such really is--and boy is he a real nut! For proof, here are some more of his crackpot Web postings!" seems to be merely there to poke fun at the poster in question.

You could have simply posted the information in his Lunar Conspiracies thread.

Is my other point.

The Rat
2002-Jun-21, 03:42 AM
On 2002-06-20 22:23, Jigsaw wrote:
I hang out at several other Internet message boards, and it's an unspoken assumption at all of them that a person's real life identity is his own business, and that if you do ever find out who somebody really is, you don't start threads to announce it.

We obviously hang out on very different boards. I prefer the 'knock down drag out' affairs, where one of the few courtesies shown is to stand back every so often to let someone else get their licks in.



They deserve our education, not our derision.

After a while you'll learn that they can't be educated. I have never seen one of these people change their mind, no matter how patient and polite we have been. I doubt this one will be the first. They will, in fact, often try to use our attempts at education against us, by twisting it to suit their own warped purpose. They are a variation on the 'creationist' theme.

If you think I'm being too harsh, I have my reasons. Take a look at this thread;

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1486&forum=2&4

You'll see that this sort of thing is touching me personally at the moment. When they affect my daughter's thinking with such idiocy I consider them dangerous.

Silas
2002-Jun-21, 04:24 AM
I wholly agree with Jigsaw's two major points.

Our "pseudonyms" may be penetrable, but they ought not to be. This is not a cyberpunk game. If I'm "Doctor Night" on one BBS, and "Night Doctor" on another, it is a violation of etiquette for people to announce that the two are the same person.

Ditto: no one is "fair game." Those of us who are dedicated to earnest and open discussion abhor the idea of labelling any single ideology as worthless. I sometimes pretend to be a "Flat Earth" believer. I'm not really, but I use the position as a rhetorical fulcrum.

Exposing "Doctor Night" as Runcible K. Spoon of 125 W. Queen Street Apt. C, Toledo Ohio 45218, is bad form. It evokes the post-Orwellian fears of Vernor Vinge's "True Names" (arguably the first "cyberpunk" novel.) It is the internet era's ultimate form of "ad hominem."

Silas (I'm in the book.)

Peter B
2002-Jun-21, 06:57 AM
They deserve our education, not our derision.

People like Bart Sibrel, Bill Kaysing, Dave Cosnette and their ilk give every indication that they don't want to be educated - they get their kicks/money out of perpetuating the hoax myth. As Jay demonstrated a couple of months ago, beneath every serious hoax believer is a person who has a serious distrust of their government (US or otherwise), and thus is operating to some other agenda.

However, for every Hoax True Believer, there are probably ten or twenty lurkers who read both sides of the argument, and judge it by what people say and how they say it. These are the people who need education not derision. That's why every person on the BABB should debate politely. Forceful is okay, but sarcastic isn't. The first step to winning an argument is convincing your interlocuter that you're going to treat them as an equal.

As a skeptic, I talk to a lot of people about a lot of strange beliefs. I've come to realise that I can't expect logic and evidence to win every argument. What I instead aim to do is plant a seed of doubt. I don't know if it'll ever germinate, but I make sure that they've heard my side and my reasons.

ngant17
2002-Jun-21, 09:29 AM
Big deal. That's an old file, actually. So what if I had OOBE's? What does that mean to you? Do you want to start a "remote viewing" topic or something like that?

You missed my website at:
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Jungle/1771

But that's for an off-shore secret bank account system in Cuba, which my friend Dr. Jason Smith, PhD. is setting up now. Do I get some free adversting here? Dr. Smith's website is at:
http://groups.msn.com/JasonSmithcom
We also plan to drill for oil off the coast of Cuba, but we are seeking 5 million dollars in start-up capital. Proftis will be directed to secret bank accounts so it can't be confiscated by US fed. per the Trading with the Enemy Act.

You also failed to note my profile which is posted at Yahoo. And my recent picture.

And I encourage you to subscribe to my newsgroup at yahoo:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cbiacs/

Or, if you are into machine translation, try this link and read about my recent trip to Eastern Europe:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/babylon6/
Any questions?

The Bad Astronomer
2002-Jun-21, 05:16 PM
I can see that this is quickly going to become ugly.

1) The FAQ for this board is linked at the top of every page. READ IT. Posts should be about astronomy, and be polite.

I will accept that some discussions get heated, but they will not resort to name-calling. You may deride HBs and creationists all you want in real life, but on the board you will be polite when you discuss the topics. HBs are frustrating, of course, but we miust stick to the facts when discussing such things.

2) This is the web. You have no privacy here. That's just a fact, and I state it as such with no personal opinion involved. If someone wants to look up someone else on the web, they can do it if they want. Posting some connection here is a moral grey area. I would prefer that discussions be based on the merits of the topic, and not what else the person believes.

3) This thread is locked.