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View Full Version : Your preferred new and first year of Mars



chornedsnorkack
2014-Apr-23, 05:34 PM
Which would you prefer?

My choices would be:
northern winter solstice
1830.

What are your alternatives, and arguments for them?

NEOWatcher
2014-Apr-23, 05:55 PM
Why do we need one now? We are already going to have a problem with day length dealing with Earth for a while.

I would say Mars Year 0 will be when they make the decision to sever chronological ties to the Earth. And then, Day 0 will be based on something astronomical from the Mars point of view (probably Mars solstice or something like that since they have weather patterns based on tilt too).

Or, by the time they are severed from Earth, they may have developed their own diety.

DonM435
2014-Apr-24, 01:24 AM
...
Or, by the time they are severed from Earth, they may have developed their own diety.

Well, by that time they can follow any diet they darn well please! ;)

Jens
2014-Apr-24, 03:38 AM
Which would you prefer?

My choices would be:
northern winter solstice
1830.

What are your alternatives, and arguments for them?

I'm not sure I understand the question exactly. Is there such a year on earth?

chornedsnorkack
2014-Apr-24, 07:32 AM
I'm not sure I understand the question exactly. Is there such a year on earth?

Yes. On Earth, first year is 1 AD.
What is your preferred choice for first year on Mars?

Jens
2014-Apr-24, 07:49 AM
Yes. On Earth, first year is 1 AD.
What is your preferred choice for first year on Mars?

Well, I could make two comments about that.

One is that the first year on earth is not 1 AD. Because for example, Julius Caesar was born in 100 BC, and I think that is earlier than 1 AD so 1 AD is clearly not the first year on earth. Sorry, it's a bit nit-picky.

Another comment is that for another reason, 1 AD is not the first year on earth. It starts in 622 according to the Gregorian calendar, which is the year of the Hijra. Or wait, it started in 543 BC on the Gregorian calendar, so the current year is 2557.

So I'd say that the earth has no starting year, and a number of different years that can be used as reference dates.

So for Mars I'd suggest that Westerners count the days on the Gregorian calendar and that Muslims use the Islamic calendar and that Thai and other Buddhist people who want to use the Buddhist calendar. Maybe when there are countries on Mars the different Martian countries will adopt their own calendars.

NEOWatcher
2014-Apr-24, 12:08 PM
Well, by that time they can follow any diet they darn well please! ;)
I'm only considering thin gods because the original inhabitants would not have been overweight. Otherwise I would have spelled it right.

iquestor
2014-Apr-24, 12:15 PM
One is that the first year on earth is not 1 AD. Because for example, Julius Caesar was born in 100 BC, and I think that is earlier than 1 AD so 1 AD is clearly not the first year on earth. Sorry, it's a bit nit-picky.
actually, your example supports Chorn. Julius Ceasar would not have said he was born in 100BC because our calendar hadn't been invented yet, and he was using something different.
Our modern calendar starts at AD 1, and so anything before that is annotated BC. SO as long as we are talking about the modern calendar we all (mostly) use, AD 1 is the first year.


Another comment is that for another reason, 1 AD is not the first year on earth. It starts in 622 according to the Gregorian calendar, which is the year of the Hijra. Or wait, it started in 543 BC on the Gregorian calendar, so the current year is 2557.

Again, there is no "universal" first year. Calendars are Mans concept. every calendar has a starting point. Saying some arbitrary date is the "first" date without specifying the calendar is meaningless. By context, it was clear Chorn was using the modern calendar as the reference.


So for Mars I'd suggest that Westerners count the days on the Gregorian calendar and that Muslims use the Islamic calendar and that Thai and other Buddhist people who want to use the Buddhist calendar. Maybe when there are countries on Mars the different Martian countries will adopt their own calendars.

We (mostly) all standardized on a common calendar for a reason, the same reason the EU changed from many currencies to the Euro. It makes trade and business easier between different political or cultural populations. If Mars is colonized Id imagine theyd base the Mars Calendar on the same system as our common calendar, adjusted for differences in "seasonal" solstices and year length. The first Day in this calendar might be when the first colonists reach Mars to Live, or perhaps the dates of its first characterization by telescope, first probe, first lander, etc.

Jens
2014-Apr-24, 12:38 PM
The first Day in this calendar might be when the first colonists reach Mars to Live, or perhaps the dates of its first characterization by telescope, first probe, first lander, etc.

I would think they would use the same first year as that used on earth. Wouldn't that make things smooth?

DonM435
2014-Apr-24, 01:18 PM
I'm only considering thin gods because the original inhabitants would not have been overweight. Otherwise I would have spelled it right.

Hmm, it's all beginning to fall into place!

One who recognizes no diety (sic) is an athiest (sic) -- that is, he's athier than anybody else. "Aith" is an arcaic past tense of "eat," of course.

Where's an entomologist when you need one? Or is that an etymologist? I'll bet the Martian rule for "i" before "e" is different.

NEOWatcher
2014-Apr-24, 02:11 PM
I'll bet the Martian rule for "i" before "e" is different.
They've abolished putting them together. Now if we could figure out the difference between a Martian and a Martain.

Jeff Root
2014-Apr-24, 07:31 PM
I would think they would use the same first year as that
used on earth. Wouldn't that make things smooth?
Of course not. Earth years and Mars years are different
lengths, so having the same starting date doesn't provide
any significant advantage.

I expect the first year of the Martian calendar will be the
year of landing of the first habitation intended to be
permanent. I don't know enough details about Mars'
orbit and rotational precession to say what would make
a good starting day for the year.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

chornedsnorkack
2014-Apr-24, 08:32 PM
As I mentioned, northern winter solstice is near the perihelion - so this is why I´d prefer it for new year.

1830 is a good starting date because of Mädler. For the 2+ centuries between 1609 and 1830, no telescopic observers appear to have compiled maps of Mars, nor picked a prime meridian. Whereas Mädler´s prime meridian through Sinus Meridiani is still honoured, and specified as Airy-0.
So picking year 1830 as year 1 AM would leave all the prior observations as prehistoric BM dates.

Swift
2014-Apr-24, 09:34 PM
Until there is a human colony on Mars, I don't see why it would matter. And at that point, year 1 could be the year the colony is established.

DonM435
2014-Apr-24, 10:55 PM
But using Year 1 and up could be ambiguous for many years to come. you know, 1/7/1 or 2/3/1 or 1/3/2 ... Of course, dates like 3/44/1 would be distinbctly Martian.
Better to stick to "2055" or whatever the Earth year is.