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James
2001-Nov-13, 12:38 PM
BA(and anyone else who can answer this)-

I have read in Weekly World News that we're gonna discover another Earth on the other side of the sun some time soon. Naturally, I always take what they report with as big a grain a salt as I can carry, unless I've read it elsewhere first.

My question is: have we ever seen the otherside of the sun with satillites(sp?)? Also, would it be possible for two planets to be in the same orbit? Of course, it's provided that both planets are going at the same speed around the star they're in orbit around.

Wally
2001-Nov-13, 12:58 PM
Not sure an article in WWN even warrants a response, but in answer to your question, all our planetary probes have/will end up on the opposite side of the sun than Earth. I'd have to bet they'd have seen our "twin" by now, provided it existed. Also, it's gravitational affect on Venus and/or Mars would probably cause unexplained deviations in their orbits that we'd have questioned by now. In short, better make that 2 big grains of salt!!!

Peter B
2001-Nov-13, 01:01 PM
James

I seriously doubt there's another planet in the Earth's orbit. Why?

Because we would've seen it already.

Think about it. What prevents us from seeing the opposite side of the Earth's orbit is the Sun. If you do a drawing of the Sun and the Earth's orbit around it, all to scale, you'll see that you don't have to travel far from the Earth to see the opposite point of its orbit.

We've sent many probes all over the Solar System. The odds are that one of them would've noticed something sharing the Earth's orbit.

As for whether another planet could hold the same orbit, AFAIK, yes it could. However, the odds of it being sited not only in the precisely same orbit but also exactly opposite are so small as to be effectively zero.

A final point, on which someone with better maths than me could comment definitively, is that the Earth's orbit isn't perfectly circular - it's elliptical. It's close to circular, but doesn't get a cigar. Using Kepler's laws of planetary motion, you'll find that two objects in an elliptical orbit won't always have the Sun focus between them. This means an Earth twin mightn't always be hidden from Earth - it'd be visible once a year if the Earth's orbit was elliptical enough.

I can't explain better than this without pictures, but the best way to imagine it is two comets sharing a highly elliptical orbit. Most of the time they'll be visible to each other.

ToSeek
2001-Nov-13, 01:57 PM
Another point is that if Earth has a twin in the same orbit, it would be the only planet with one, which is extremely unlikely.

Silas
2001-Nov-13, 03:07 PM
A twin-planet orbit of that form is only metastable, and would soon deviate, even without perturbation from Venus and Jupiter. With such perturbation, the system would quickly break up. I *think* the other planet would wander into the leading or trailing stable LaGrange points, but my math ain't up to the task. Is a collision or a capture more likely?

Silas

Russ
2001-Nov-13, 03:18 PM
TBA use to have a little item on this but after searching his whole site, I couldn't find it.

If I recall correctly, it is not possible for two planets to occupy the same orbit for very long without colliding. Due to the orbital dynamics of the Earth's eliptical orbit, Earth and Planet Htrae would collide. This may in fact be what happend in the collision that created the Moon. Astronomers think the Moon was created in a collision with a Mars sized/massed object about 4 billion years ago.

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-13, 03:27 PM
Another important thing to understand is that a large object orbiting the sun opposite Earth would put both objects into unstable orbits. They wouldn't remain in that configuration for long... not even years, let alone billions of years.

There may have been an object something like that at one time, though. The current most favored theory of the Moon's origin is that a Mars-sized body impacted the Earth early in its history; the Moon coalesced from debris ejected by this impact.

One possibility is that when the Earth was forming, two large objects (the proto-Earth and the other large planetesimal) both accreted in nearly the same orbit. They might even have been opposite the sun from each other, every now and then, but only briefly. Inevitably, they ended up in the same place at the same time, and whammo!

That's what would happen eventually, if some object got parked opposite the Earth in its orbit today.

By the way, the Earth's orbit is not a circle, but an ellipse; and the speed of its orbit varies over the course of a year. If there were something opposite the sun, it wouldn't always stay exactly opposite the sun; the body that was closer to the sun would be moving faster and get a bit ahead of the one that was farther away. So nothing sizeable can "hide" behind the sun, unless it's actively maneuvering to stay there.

Oh, one other thing: there is a Lagrangian point in the opposite-the-sun position (a place where a small object can remain in gravitational equilibrium). It's called L3. But, it's an unstable one (any small perturbation will cause an object there to move away from L3) and Lagrangian points only work for small masses (compared to the Sun and Earth, in this case).

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-13, 03:30 PM
Great Minds Think Alike, eh Russ? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

David Simmons
2001-Nov-13, 03:48 PM
On 2001-11-13 07:38, James wrote:
BA(and anyone else who can answer this)-

I have read in Weekly World News that we're gonna discover another Earth on the other side of the sun some time soon. Naturally, I always take what they report with as big a grain a salt as I can carry, unless I've read it elsewhere first.

My question is: have we ever seen the otherside of the sun with satillites(sp?)? Also, would it be possible for two planets to be in the same orbit? Of course, it's provided that both planets are going at the same speed around the star they're in orbit around.



Speculations about a "dark" twin exactly opposite the earth in orbit aren't new. This site tells a little about it from the point of view of the "Zetas" who, I gather from a quick scan, are alien beings who know all, see all and tell all. Keep your salt at the ready.

Here is the link. "Dark" Earth (http://www.zetatalk.com/science/s37.htm)

Just as a warning (Forewarned is Forearmed) as the the quality of the information on this site (http://www.zetatalk.com), here is the explanation of what Zetas are - directly from the site: <font color="blue">"The Zetas are a group of Service-to-Other Beings who are assisting this planet and itís</font>(sic)<font color="blue"> people in the transformation from 3rd to 4th density. This Transformation is happening now, and will be completed sometime after the passage of the 12th Planet, and the resulting Pole Shift that this passage will cause</font>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David Simmons on 2001-11-13 11:01 ]</font>

David Hall
2001-Nov-13, 03:57 PM
Not only is it possible for two bodies to have the same orbit, there are several real-life examples of this. The inner moons of Saturn.

Epimetheus and Janus share the same orbit and periodically switch places with each other, according to this link:

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/features/planets/saturn/epimetheus.html

In addition, there is a small moon Helene, which is caught in the leading trojan point of Dione:

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/features/planets/saturn/helene.html

And to top it off, there is a last case where there are THREE bodies in the same orbit! Both the forward and trailing trojan points of Tethys are occupied by small moons. Telesto and Calypso take up the two spots.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/features/planets/saturn/telesto.html

So wow! It's a proven point that two satellites can occupy the same orbit. However, they are all in stable trojan point positions or in strange synchronous orbits with each other. As others have already mentioned, I doubt very highly that two bodies on opposite sides of each other would be stable and stay that way for very long.

TinFoilHat
2001-Nov-13, 05:03 PM
How long is not very long?

Let's say someone artificially placed an asteroid a few miles long exactly in the earth-sun L3 point.

How long would it take for it to wander out of position? How long before someone on Earth noticed it?

If the asteroid were actively stabilized with reaction jets, I assume it could stay in the L3 point until it ran out of fuel.

The Bad Astronomer
2001-Nov-13, 05:20 PM
The quick answer is that a planet the mass of Earth on the opposite side of the Sun would have easily measurable effects on the orbits of the other planets. We do not see these effects, and therefore there is no planet there.

The Curtmudgeon
2001-Nov-13, 07:01 PM
On 2001-11-13 07:38, James wrote:
I have read in Weekly World News that we're gonna discover another Earth on the other side of the sun some time soon.


Okay, second attempt to reply to this. Anyway, James, this isn't a new idea at all. Medieval philosophers had speculated on the existence of a Counter-Earth at the opposite point of our orbit, although the speculations about it were much more philosophical (rather than scientific) in nature. I had once raised this very point on the old BABB (not that I questioned if it was possible, only how to disprove it should some ask).

Somewhat more recent than the Middle Ages /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif , the idea forms the basis of John Norman's sci-whips-n-chains-fi series of Gor novels, where 'Gor' is his name for the Counter-Earth (a term he also uses from time to time). I would suspect that that is where the Weakly Weird News got the idea from, since it's so very much their type of reading material! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

The (I suffered from Gor-bore about halfway through the series) Curtmudgeon

Valiant Dancer
2001-Nov-13, 07:54 PM
On 2001-11-13 07:38, James wrote:
BA(and anyone else who can answer this)-

I have read in Weekly World News that we're gonna discover another Earth on the other side of the sun some time soon. Naturally, I always take what they report with as big a grain a salt as I can carry, unless I've read it elsewhere first.

My question is: have we ever seen the otherside of the sun with satillites(sp?)? Also, would it be possible for two planets to be in the same orbit? Of course, it's provided that both planets are going at the same speed around the star they're in orbit around.



The Weekly World News is not known as a bastion of accurate facts. They also claim to have found a super hot planet where hell is supposed to be. Claims the screams of the damned are hearable in a radio telescope. In the past issue, they also claimed that looking at hooters makes men live longer. Even claimed that it was printed in the New England Journal of Medicine. (BTW, if you have that issue, could you tell me what date they give for the NEJM?) I could not find anything in the NEJM to indicate this at all. I only searched two months back.

Basically, WWN is know for being the premire paper to wrap fish in.

Ben Benoy
2001-Nov-13, 08:13 PM
On 2001-11-13 10:57, David Hall wrote:

In addition, there is a small moon Helene, which is caught in the leading trojan point of Dione:



And elsewhere. Obviously I added the emphasis, but what is a trojan point? Is this just another word for a Lagrange point?

Also, Valiant Dancer, I would hazard to guess that staring at hooters actually decreases lifespans. To wit, men have shorter lifespans than women. It seems reasonable to me that this is because they spend all their time staring at hooters, as opposed to women who do not. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Of course, this is just my own example of correlation/causation. Hrm... Just think how quickly we'd die if we didn't stare! For my own part, I'm never making eye contact again. Ahh... science.

Ben Benoy

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-13, 08:38 PM
On 2001-11-13 15:13, Ben Benoy wrote:


On 2001-11-13 10:57, David Hall wrote:

In addition, there is a small moon Helene, which is caught in the leading trojan point of Dione:



And elsewhere. Obviously I added the emphasis, but what is a trojan point? Is this just another word for a Lagrange point?

Ben Benoy


I believe "Trojan points" refers to the two specific Lagrangian points, L4 and L5, that are on the planet's orbit, 60 degrees ahead of and behind the planet. Those two points have relatively stable equilibrium, and Jupiter's orbit has some small objects there. Earth's doesn't but one reference I saw said there is a diffuse cloud of gases at each one.

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-13, 08:44 PM
Damn, mental block...

I'm quite certain that there was a pretty well-known s/f movie from the 50's that included a space flight to a counter-earth as the main goal of the "good guys". Their society was a scientific meritocracy, and the conflict was provided by a mob of Luddite-ish rabble intent on stopping the mission.

I can't dredge up the title, though. Help, someone!

James
2001-Nov-14, 12:49 AM
(BTW, if you have that issue, could you tell me what date they give for the NEJM?) I could not find anything in the NEJM to indicate this at all. I only searched two months back.

No date on the article, but I highly doubt that even if you were to check back 30 years you wouldn't find any record of it.


Basically, WWN is know for being the premire paper to wrap fish in.

Oh, really? And what's the Sun for? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Everyone-

Thanks for an answer. I didn't think it was possible for there to be another Earth on the other side of the Sun. Just wondering if it was possible. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

David Simmons
2001-Nov-14, 01:24 AM
I believe "Trojan points" refers to the two specific Lagrangian points, L4 and L5, that are on the planet's orbit, 60 degrees ahead of and behind the planet. Those two points have relatively stable equilibrium, and Jupiter's orbit has some small objects there. Earth's doesn't but one reference I saw said there is a diffuse cloud of gases at each one.



And I think the name "Trojan Points" comes because some asteroids in those points for Jupiter's(?) orbit are named after characters from the Trojan war in the Iliad.

James
2001-Nov-14, 02:32 AM
In the past issue, they also claimed that looking at hooters makes men live longer. Even claimed that it was printed in the New England Journal of Medicine. (BTW, if you have that issue, could you tell me what date they give for the NEJM?) I could not find anything in the NEJM to indicate this at all. I only searched two months back.

VD, here's a link to the article on WWN's web site: Looking at breasts increases male lifespan (http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/news/index.cfm?instanceid=17484)

_________________
"Evangelist" - Evil's Agent

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Bad Astronomer on 2001-11-14 12:12 ]</font>

Mr. X
2001-Nov-14, 02:58 AM
That's this whole Planet X thing I think.

If you look around for info on Lagrange points you can find over at NASA extensive information and calculations (8 pages of them) on why there isn't anything at the stable Lagrange points.

I'll try to find the url.

Ah ha! It is here! (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/ContentMedia/lagrange.pdf) Enjoy!

I suggest printing it as I've rarely seen fonts that appear this bad.

Edited for adding the lost url.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. X on 2001-11-13 22:05 ]</font>

The Bad Astronomer
2001-Nov-14, 05:14 PM
First: The movie about the counter-Earth was "Journey to the Far Side of the Sun", a Fanderson production (they did U.F.O., Space:1999 and others).

Second: folks, let's drop the off-topic breast chatter, please. I already edited a post to make it more kid-friendly, and I strongly urge you to stay on-topic on this astronomy bulletin board.

Wiley
2001-Nov-14, 06:30 PM
On 2001-11-13 12:20, The Bad Astronomer wrote:
The quick answer is that a planet the mass of Earth on the opposite side of the Sun would have easily measurable effects on the orbits of the other planets. We do not see these effects, and therefore there is no planet there.



But what if the planet is hollow. Yeah! that's the ticket. And the people all live on the inside. I think I'm on to something.
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Russ
2001-Nov-14, 08:41 PM
On 2001-11-13 15:44, Donnie B. wrote:
Damn, mental block...

I'm quite certain that there was a pretty well-known s/f movie from the 50's that included a space flight to a counter-earth as the main goal of the "good guys". Their society was a scientific meritocracy, and the conflict was provided by a mob of Luddite-ish rabble intent on stopping the mission.

I can't dredge up the title, though. Help, someone!


TBA mentions above the "Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun" was a mid to late 60's, made for TV movie. As I recall it was gawdawful dreck that made "Space 1999" look like a graduate astronomy textbook. It even activated my teenaged, hormone soaked, science geek GAG reflex.

Valiant Dancer
2001-Nov-15, 02:05 PM
On 2001-11-13 19:49, James wrote:

(BTW, if you have that issue, could you tell me what date they give for the NEJM?) I could not find anything in the NEJM to indicate this at all. I only searched two months back.

No date on the article, but I highly doubt that even if you were to check back 30 years you wouldn't find any record of it.


This also was brought up on the Skeptic Friends network. Turns out the article said that articles in the NEJM supported statements made by the researcher. The researcher herself was not in the NEJM. She stated that 10 minutes of men staring at women's hooters was equivalent to 30 minutes of aerobic exercise. The articles in the NEJM made reference to how 30 minutes of aerobic exercise help decrease high-normal blood pressures and how cardiac risk factors dropped off significantly going from high-normal to mid-normal blood pressure.




Basically, WWN is know for being the premire paper to wrap fish in.

Oh, really? And what's the Sun for? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif


Emergency toilet paper. It's softer than the paper stock used for the WWN. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Everyone-

Thanks for an answer. I didn't think it was possible for there to be another Earth on the other side of the Sun. Just wondering if it was possible. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

James
2001-Nov-16, 12:34 AM
Basically, WWN is know for being the premire paper to wrap fish in.

Oh, really? And what's the Sun for? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif


Emergency toilet paper. It's softer than the paper stock used for the WWN. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

ROTFLMAO /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Russ
2001-Nov-21, 04:14 AM
On 2001-11-13 10:30, Donnie B. wrote:
Great Minds Think Alike, eh Russ? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Ipso Facto! Do you know any great minds? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif Please excuse the crass and impolite joke. It's 0100 and I'm getting a little punchy. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

lpetrich
2001-Nov-21, 06:04 AM
An opposite-side counter-Earth would produce noticeable perturbations on the orbits of nearby planets; their orbits would have extra periapsis and node perturbations of about m/m_Sun per orbit, or about 0.6"/yr.

Over a century, this would accumulate to about 60", which would be easily observable; the resulting position discrepancies are obtained by multiplying by the eccentricity or the inclination, as the case may be, which results in something like 2" - 6" (from a memory of 0.03 to 0.1 for the inner planets)

And this discrepancy would be cumulative; I'm not sure how good the observations of the planets have been over the last few centuries, however.

The counter-Earth position is Lagrange point L3, which is one of the always-unstable ones (the others are the other two collinear ones). Since these points are unstable, departures from them will grow exponentially along the orbit; how fast can be crudely estimated:

d^2x/dt^2 ~ (G*m/l^3)*x

or (departure rate) ~ (orbit rate)*sqrt(m/m_Sun)

giving an exponentiation time of approximately 100 years.

Thus, this object would stay hidden for only a few centuries unless its position was continuously adjusted.

Donnie B.
2001-Nov-21, 10:38 AM
Thus, this object would stay hidden for only a few centuries unless its position was continuously adjusted.


Is it fair to say that this number is a best-case estimate for a small object (relative to Earth)? The Lagrangian calculations make that assumption, do they not?

So a true "counter-Earth" (an Earth-sized body opposite the sun from Earth) couldn't hide even that long.

Has anyone got an estimate for how much such an object would deviate from "directly behind the sun" over the course of a year due to the eccentricity of the two planets' elliptical orbits? Would those two orbits necessarily have their foci in the same places, or could they be reversed, or uncorrelated?

Not that I think there's anything back there, mind you... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

lpetrich
2001-Nov-22, 07:04 AM
It's possible for a counter-Earth to hide if its eccentricity was the same as the Earth's and if its periapsis pointed in the opposite direction. The Earth and that counter-Earth would then move at the same rate, thus keeping opposed positions.

If one ignores the instability of its orbit, however.

And that estimate of 100 years would also be approximately true in the equal-mass case. It is possible to calculate more precise values, but I don't have the appropriate formulas on hand.

Lorenzo
2001-Nov-24, 03:53 AM
My question is: have we ever seen the otherside of the sun with satillites(sp?)? Also, would it be possible for two planets to be in the same orbit? Of course, it's provided that both planets are going at the same speed around the star they're in orbit around.



I am not sure to stay on topic (as the BA strongly suggests), but a "body"
orbiting the Sun at a distance very close to that of the Earth already exists:
it is the asteroid Cruithne 3753.

This is the original paper:

http://www.astro.queensu.ca/~wiegert/3753/3753.html

and this is the BA bitesize page:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bitesize/3753/html

Yes, I know... it's smaller than the Earth, only co-orbital with it and its
orbit is of the horseshoe type. But you can't have everything as you like...
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Let's wait and be patient: sooner or later we will "meet" it (softly, I hope).

Lorenzo

P.S. While I was looking for the Cruithne link, I found out that two additional
NEAs in resonant states have been recently discovered. Their names are 1998 UP1
and 2000 PH5. Look also at:

http://www.astro.queensu.ca/~wiegert/etrojans/etrojans.html



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lorenzo on 2001-11-23 22:58 ]</font>

JollyGreenSatan
2001-Nov-24, 07:29 AM
Hey, it would be pretty cool if the earth's hollow counter-planet (with people living on the inside) caught up to us. We could smack it around at sporting events like a big beach ball, then poke a hole in it and watch it go wizzing through space!

incredulo
2006-Aug-12, 03:43 AM
This is very funny, a few days ago there has appeared a web of this supposed one Earth-twin:
www.planetajano.com (http://www.planetajano.com)

:D

WaxRubiks
2006-Aug-12, 05:15 AM
that's all in spanish!

incredulo
2006-Aug-12, 05:37 AM
Yes, they say that the languages of the future are the Spanish and the Chinese and that, at the moment, they put it in Spanish and think to put it in Chinese.
But there are many web pages that they translate very well from the Spanish into the English.

incredulo
2006-Aug-12, 05:55 AM
I you attach a translation of two notes of this web as funny purpose:
:lol:

"… Since it remains clear, we do not want to interfere in the evolution of the Earth and only we try to help them in your way for a future meeting and real brotherhood, but meanwhile we want to warn very seriously all the madmen of the Earth, these are powerful Chiefs of State, united states or separately, well be economic groups of power, or simple militaristic fanatics, or any class of Messianic madman, which feeling threatened or trying to obtain Jano's benefit they must bear in mind and to give itself well-informed that:
Any spatial ship, crewed ship or not, that meaningfully comes closer a minor distance of 1 UA* Jano, it will be destroyed

The Sun is our border. While let's not think that the Earth is prepared for the real contact, we wish not even visits, you do not even spy, our model of civilization shows or to describe.
We offer our help of intermediation between the terrestrial ones of a pacific way and without any type of interest more that the destruction of the planet avoids Earth, since it would put in danger our orbit, but as at the moment you do not have technological capacity for a disaster of such a magnitude, we will not intervene in anything and of fact we have reduced substantially our colony infiltrated into the Earth: you do not have anything in that we are interested, only the balance of the orbits of both planets, and already it can only above mentioned that you are far from being able to interfere in them.
You can kill to nuclear bombs or to destroy all the forms of life of the Earth (of which already we have complete cataloguing, information and samples), that our colonists have almost instantaneous routes of leak and the planet, as celestial body, one would not see affected."


"Official note of Jano's representation in the Earth:
Before the climbing of the tension in the social-religious-cultural, we are analyzing to do a public presentation in order that it uses as catharsis and calms the spirits of the parts.
This being evaluated if the spiritual shock of our public presentation would be more fraudulent than the current crisis.
It is enough to check your recent history, to understand that multitudes would not accept the break of his spiritual scheme and would choose well for the self-destruction or for the massive destruction of all the terrestrial ones or for a bellicose reception. It is a risk that we are projecting and in seven days we will choose for some solution, being another possible action the exit of our delegation and the observation distantly until the tension dissolves or rushes.
Never will we allow the risk for our delegates and for it we emit this note.
If we choose to go away, we will not return up to the contact, though the service that tries to give this Web will be kept so like that there has compromised himself our supplier, previous early payment of ten years; what already would not be interactive would be our intervention in the same one.
We suggest everything to read this note, believe in Jano or not, that is mobilized to avoid the self-destruction of the terrestrial ones. Shortly they will happen, for pure cycle of the nature, some big cataclysms and a propitious situation will be provoked for the extremisms, you must avoid it.
Emitted in Jano on August, seven, 2006, terrestrial western time, for the ' General Coordinator of the Earth '.
You present with power of action, they can contact with us across the mail address reinatrois-at-planetajano.com, but already we warn that we will not take pro by any faction in conflict, though yes to happen between all."

Tobin Dax
2006-Aug-12, 04:16 PM
"Any spatial ship, crewed ship or not, that meaningfully comes closer a minor distance of 1 UA* Jano, it will be destroyed."
Now that's an explanation for our Mars mission success rate. :)

Thanatos
2006-Aug-15, 07:42 AM
No, it's impossible. First: the orbits of the inner planets would be greatly disturbed. Second, two near equally massive planets occupying the same orbit would collide in far less than 5 billion years.

V-GER
2006-Aug-18, 08:08 AM
This is tiresome, once again we have aliens with the usual "you'll destroy everything hu-mans"-speak and yet they're the ones threatning to destroy anything that gets too close to them...

At least once I'd like to see something original from these people.