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ToSeek
2004-Dec-23, 06:08 PM
I'm going to start a new topic for this (mostly because the erroneous apostrophe in the title of the topic I've been using annoys me!).

Splash, Thud, or Whimper? Cassini's Huygens Probe Rendezvous with Titan (http://www.space.com/searchforlife/huygens_titan_041223.html)




On December 24th, 2004, at 7:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, the Cassini spacecraft will release a probe that has hitched a ride all the way from Earth out to Saturn. The Huygens Probe, named after the Dutch scientist Christiaan Huygens, who discovered Titan and Saturn’s rings in the 17th century and built by the European Space Agency, will spend 22 days traveling to its rendezvous with Saturn’s mysterious moon Titan on January 14th. Titan is one of the remaining puzzles of the solar system – while Cassini’s imaging cameras and radar instrument have begun to reveal the details of its surface, the Huygens probe will be the first spacecraft to venture beneath Titan’s thick clouds

Disinfo Agent
2004-Dec-23, 08:22 PM
Why will it be so long between separation and entry?

ToSeek
2004-Dec-23, 08:39 PM
Why will it be so long between separation and entry?

Since Huygens has no propulsion system, Cassini must be on the same track as Huygens at the time of release, i.e., a collision course with Titan. The long lead time gives Cassini enough room to change its course so as not to collide with Titan.

CJSF
2004-Dec-23, 09:38 PM
Is a 2.5 hour battery the best that could be done? Was this an engineering contraint, budgetary or was that the best battery when the thing was originally designed/built?

CJSF

kucharek
2004-Dec-23, 09:42 PM
Don't know if this was posted here before, but here (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~aeibl/disr_field_test.html) is a webpage with some test images taken by the camera. Just to give an idea what to expect.


Harald

kucharek
2004-Dec-23, 09:43 PM
Is a 2.5 hour battery the best that could be done? Was this an engineering contraint, budgetary or was that the best battery when the thing was originally designed/built?

CJSF

Cassini will go below the horizon after this time, so it wouldn't pay to have a battery that lasts longer.

Harald

Jerry
2004-Dec-24, 03:02 AM
Is a 2.5 hour battery the best that could be done? Was this an engineering contraint, budgetary or was that the best battery when the thing was originally designed/built?
CJSF
Cassini will go below the horizon after this time, so it wouldn't pay to have a battery that lasts longer.
Harald
This one I do not understand. I can run my trawlin motor for a days on one battery, and Cassina completes another orbit in a month, why not shut Huygens down for a month and and fire it up again?????

ToSeek
2004-Dec-24, 03:11 AM
This one I do not understand. I can run my trawlin motor for a days on one battery, and Cassina completes another orbit in a month, why not shut Huygens down for a month and and fire it up again?????

How would you do that? If Huygens is shut down all the way, then there's no way of waking it up again. If you want to allow for waking it up again, then it has to either have some sort of timer running or have some portion of the communications system remain on and listening. Even then you've got to assume it's going to survive the landing and then be able to hold out for a month. It doesn't seem like a possibility worth planning for.

frogesque
2004-Dec-24, 03:16 AM
Is a 2.5 hour battery the best that could be done? Was this an engineering contraint, budgetary or was that the best battery when the thing was originally designed/built?
CJSF
Cassini will go below the horizon after this time, so it wouldn't pay to have a battery that lasts longer.
Harald
This one I do not understand. I can run my trawlin motor for a days on one battery, and Cassina completes another orbit in a month, why not shut Huygens down for a month and and fire it up again?????

My guess would be, apart from size and weight issues, that without heating the battery, once it drops below a critical temperature it wouldn't be able to emerge from hibernation

Solar Views: Titan (http://www.solarviews.com/eng/titan.htm)


Titan's surface temperature appears to be about -178°C (-289°F).

That's a real low temperature to kep a battery at for a month. To keep the battery warm would take power which would drain the battery so it would be self defeating.

Van Rijn
2004-Dec-24, 05:28 AM
Why will it be so long between separation and entry?

Since Huygens has no propulsion system, Cassini must be on the same track as Huygens at the time of release, i.e., a collision course with Titan. The long lead time gives Cassini enough room to change its course so as not to collide with Titan.

The signal timing problem was another issue. I found this article absolutely fascinating:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/oct04/1004titan.html

The Cassini receiver for the Huygens probe couldn't fully account for doppler shift. The article covers how the problem was found and a workaround devised. From the article:


FROM A VARIETY OF PROPOSED FIXES, the Cassini team crafted a response plan that centered on reducing the Doppler shift sufficiently to keep the data signal within the recognition range of the receiver. They accomplished this trick by altering the planned trajectory of Cassini. Now, Cassini will be much farther from Titan when Huygens enters its atmosphere.
and ...

So the navigators designed a trajectory in which Cassini initially enters a lower and faster orbit around Saturn, drops off Huygens, and then hits a specific point in space that coincides with a point on the previously planned path. There Cassini fires its rocket engine again to get back on the original course.

The effect is that the flight takes longer and the landing is later than originally planed. If they hadn't done the testing and had gone with the original plan, though, we likely woudn't have gotten any useful data from the probe. Still, I hope there aren't any other real issues yet to be found ...

Kaptain K
2004-Dec-24, 12:08 PM
This one I do not understand. I can run my trawlin motor for a days on one battery, and Cassina completes another orbit in a month, why not shut Huygens down for a month and and fire it up again?????
And just how long will your motor last at -300F? :o

ngc3314
2004-Dec-24, 01:56 PM
From looking through the PDF on the Huygens misison from the NASA/ESA site, here's a head's-up. To verify the exact departure trajectory, the orbiter will take a 5x5 imaging mosaic to show the probe at about 1400 UT on Christmas Day. After 11 hours or so it may look like just another faint star, but it should be encouraging enough to just see the thing. The timeline shows a 2.5-day window allotted for probe imaging, in fact.

Tom Ames
2004-Dec-25, 02:22 AM
On a slightly whining note:

Does anyone else find the Cassini mission homepage incredibly disappointing, especially as compared to the MER effort?

I mean, one of the top items STILL remains the story of the high school ballet dancer who participated in the planning. That stuff is fine for the cruise segment of the mission. But Cassini is in orbit and Huygens is being released. Can't we see more than the occasional wallpaper and human-interest story?

Who do I complain to about this?

(Done venting now.)

01101001
2004-Dec-25, 03:41 AM
Who do I complain to about this?
It might help: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/contact-us.cfm

On the MER mission page, I used a similar outreach address to ask a technical question that got answered.

The bottom of http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm lists editor and writer credits if you want to go into JPL and do some persuading.

Squink
2004-Dec-25, 04:13 AM
On its way: (http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=7177764 )
Ground controllers received a signal at about 7:24 p.m. Pacific time (10:24 p.m. EST) indicating that Huygens had separated from NASA's Saturn probe Cassini, as small explosives sheared away locking bolts and a set of springs gently pushed the probe off on a collision course with Titan.

Tom Ames
2004-Dec-25, 05:20 AM
Who do I complain to about this?
It might help: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/contact-us.cfm

On the MER mission page, I used a similar outreach address to ask a technical question that got answered.

The bottom of http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm lists editor and writer credits if you want to go into JPL and do some persuading.

Thanks, 69,

I was being kinda' facetious -- I don't really intend to complain. It just seems like the web coverage on Cassini has been a big letdown in comparison to what has been done with MER.

Thankfully S & O have been keeping me entertained longer than I had counted on.

01101001
2004-Dec-25, 05:25 PM
On its way: (http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=7177764 )

Live pictures! Just kidding. Artwork:

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/images/IMG001244-th200.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-release-details.cfm?newsID=519)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000628-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=628)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000624-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=624)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000616-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=616)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000623-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=623)

http://www.esa.int/images/Huygens_Rentree2_S.jpg (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMVR53AR2E_0.html)

http://www.esa.int/images/Huygens_Separation_S.jpg (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMVR53AR2E_1.html#subhead1)

01101001
2004-Dec-25, 07:22 PM
Just for scale, a picture of Huygens (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMTV82VQUD_0.html) with people.

http://www.esa.int/images/9700208_M.jpg (http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/esapub/9700208.jpg)

It's 2.7 meters, about the same diameter as a MER spacecraft.

Jerry
2004-Dec-25, 10:34 PM
On a slightly whining note:

Does anyone else find the Cassini mission homepage incredibly disappointing, especially as compared to the MER effort?

I mean, one of the top items STILL remains the story of the high school ballet dancer who participated in the planning. ...
Who do I complain to about this?

(Done venting now.)I have been harping about the lack of detail in the orbital science work, doppler measurements, the list goes on and on. The ESA site is slightly better, but they are holding the science data close to the vest :evil:

ChibiVader
2004-Dec-25, 11:28 PM
Part of the reason the Huygens probe has such a short battery life is because of what it's mission goals are: To study the atmosphere. The 2.5 hour life should be enough time to do that. Furthermore, when it does land, it doesn't need a long battery life since it's going to be sitting still. It should have enough time to sample whatever's there and be done with it.

AlexBlackwell
2004-Dec-26, 12:26 AM
From looking through the PDF on the Huygens misison from the NASA/ESA site, here's a head's-up. To verify the exact departure trajectory, the orbiter will take a 5x5 imaging mosaic to show the probe at about 1400 UT on Christmas Day. After 11 hours or so it may look like just another faint star, but it should be encouraging enough to just see the thing. The timeline shows a 2.5-day window allotted for probe imaging, in fact.
See some Huygens post-release imagery:

Huygens Probe Zoom (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=1248)
December 25, 2004

Kullat Nunu
2004-Dec-27, 11:34 PM
Huygens Probe Shines for Cassini's Cameras (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-release-details.cfm?newsID=521)

Huygens is the bright "star" in lower right corner:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/browse/PIA06999.jpg (http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA06999)

Processed close-up view of the Huygens probe:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/browse/PIA07001.jpg (http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA07001)

yaohua2000
2004-Dec-28, 03:09 AM
100 kilometers milestone

The probe was 100 kilometers from Cassini orbiter at 01:17 UTC on 2004-Dec-28.

John Dlugosz
2004-Dec-28, 09:30 PM
Check out the program Celestia. It can let you view the motions and give a real feel for what's going on.

yaohua2000
2004-Dec-28, 10:40 PM
1000 kilometers milestone

The probe was 1000 kilometers from Cassini orbiter at 12:20 UTC on 2004-Dec-28.

kucharek
2005-Jan-03, 10:47 AM
Some trajectory plots:

25.12.2004
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/ch2512.GIF

28.12.2004
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/ch2812.GIF

1.1.2005
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/ch0101.GIF

7. Jan. 2005
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/ch0701.GIF

14. Jan. 2005
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/ch1401.gif

Entry
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/c0h.GIF

Entry +2h
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/c2h.GIF

Entry +4h
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/c4h.GIF

Entry +5h
http://www.higashiyama.de/Xchange/c5h.GIF

Fly-By animation:
http://www.esa.int/spacecraftops/ESOC-Article-fullArticle_par-40_1103125840807.html

ToSeek
2005-Jan-03, 05:09 PM
Parachuting to Titan (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/30dec_titan.htm)


Get ready for two of the strangest hours in the history of space exploration.

Two hours. That's how long it will take the European Space Agency's Huygens probe to parachute to the surface of Titan on January 14th. Descending through thick orange clouds, Huygens will taste Titan’s atmosphere, measure its wind and rain, listen for alien sounds and, when the clouds part, start taking pictures.

No one knows what the photos will reveal. Icy mountains? Liquid methane seas? Hot lightning? "It's anyone's guess," says Jonathan Lunine, a professor of planetary science at the University of Arizona and a member of the Huygens science team. "We might not even understand what we see, not immediately."

ToSeek
2005-Jan-10, 05:31 PM
ESA taking the wrong tack on Huygens imagery?:

Live from another world (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/302/1)


Nothing remotely like the Voyager, Pathfinder, or MER experience is about to repeat when Huygens lands on Titan, according at least to the current plans by the European Space Agency. The incoming raw images for the DISR cameras will only be seen by the scientists directly involved in the project: They will work on them and release them only hours later, after much processing of contrast and resolution. A few glimpses of the DISR images may be shown some hours after they arrived, but the majority of them, plus all the other data collected during the descent, are only to be released during a news briefing the next day. Now it is understandable that the European Space Agency wants to release only the best material, but to deprive the public of the chance to experience the mission as it happens (or happened) is a major blunder.

um3k
2005-Jan-10, 08:13 PM
ESA taking the wrong tack on Huygens imagery?:

Live from another world (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/302/1)
Wow. Will ESA ever get this right?

Swift
2005-Jan-10, 09:53 PM
ESA taking the wrong tack on Huygens imagery?:

Live from another world (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/302/1)
Wow. Will ESA ever get this right?
I didn't know that and I'm very disappointed. I agree, bad PR move.

V-GER
2005-Jan-10, 09:59 PM
It is a bad pr move. Although the Mars Express photos are truly spectacular, they could have made more noise about them.
And with Titan, the delay will probably just create more conspriracy theories again.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-10, 10:00 PM
ESA taking the wrong tack on Huygens imagery?:

Live from another world (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/302/1)
Wow. Will ESA ever get this right?
I didn't know that and I'm very disappointed. I agree, bad PR move.

Yes, they complain about the failure of Beagle overshadowing the success of Mars Express, but then they're dispensing Mars Express imagery with an eyedropper.

parallaxicality
2005-Jan-10, 10:18 PM
Assuming the ESA gives us the whole picture, once the probe lands, what will we see? This is pure speculation's last chance.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-11, 05:34 PM
Landing on Liquid?
To Crash or Splash, That is the Question (http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid= 1384&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)


After flying 2 billion miles, a probe to Saturn's moon will attempt what has never been tried before. The Huygens' probe will plunge into Titan and its mysterious atmosphere on Jan. 14, 2005. Whether it will crash or splash has become of extreme scientific interest to those watching the controlled collision.

01101001
2005-Jan-11, 08:56 PM
Go Huygens! (http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA06172)

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/browse/PIA06172.jpg (http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA06172)


The colored lines delineate regions that will be imaged at different resolutions as the probe descends. On each map, the site where Huygens is predicted to land is marked with a yellow dot. This area is in a boundary between dark and bright regions.

harlequin
2005-Jan-11, 10:02 PM
ESA taking the wrong tack on Huygens imagery?:

Live from another world (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/302/1)


Nothing remotely like the Voyager, Pathfinder, or MER experience is about to repeat when Huygens lands on Titan, according at least to the current plans by the European Space Agency. The incoming raw images for the DISR cameras will only be seen by the scientists directly involved in the project: They will work on them and release them only hours later, after much processing of contrast and resolution. A few glimpses of the DISR images may be shown some hours after they arrived, but the majority of them, plus all the other data collected during the descent, are only to be released during a news briefing the next day. Now it is understandable that the European Space Agency wants to release only the best material, but to deprive the public of the chance to experience the mission as it happens (or happened) is a major blunder.

This is utterly inexcusable. All data should be released as fast as it can be reasonably done. I can understand some some delay of the data for progmatic concerns such as expense: but I very much doubt that the cost is much of an issue for raw images. (NASA clearly has developed software to post spacecraft images onto websites and I would hope it would be willing to help on that.) I can also understand a short delay of detailed scientific data for reason of an embargo: those who have spent years of their lifes on the project getting a slight head start in analysis so they can publish first instead of researchers who contribute nothing to the production of the data. But again, I can't see that would be very relevant to raw images.

There are many good reasons for full public release of all data after the coveats above have been covered:

1) I paid for Huygens since I am a taxpayer. I don't think that it is unreasonable that I get something back for it. And don't tell me that an American I did not pay for a European probe. a) Huygens would not got to Titan without the American Cassini). b) My tax dollars paid for the communication network (and Cassini) needed to communicate with Huygens. c) I would be very surprised if my tax dollars did not make some other contributions to the effort: planning, development of technology, etc.

2) As the quoted commentator mentioned: public relations is important. Do these guys want more probes in the future? Getting people excited about current stuff is key to having them want more in the future. Letting people feel involved even in a trivial and superfical way helps alot.

3) The faster the data is public, the faster scientist can work on it especially ones without credentials like maybe one just starting on his career. Even the raw images might give people some ideas what hypotheses to test when the detailed sciencific data is released.

Kullat Nunu
2005-Jan-11, 10:14 PM
NASA TV schedule:


January 13, Thursday
10:55 a.m. - 11:30 a.m. - Huygens Final Status News Conference from ESA - JPL/ESA

January 14, Friday
3 a.m. - 3:30 a.m. - Live Coverage and Commentary "Cassini Turns Towards Titan - Interruption of Radio Contact" - JPL/ESA
5 a.m. - 6 a.m. - Live Coverage and Commentary "The Huygens Probe Enters the Atmosphere of Titan" - JPL/ESA
7:30 a.m. - 8 a.m. - ESA News Briefing "Mission Status" - JPL/ESA
8:30 a.m. - 9:15 a.m. - ESA Commentary on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
10 a.m. - 10:30 a.m. - ESA Commentary "Cassini Turns Back to Earth - Data Transmission Begins" - JPL/ESA
11:15 a.m. - 12:15 p.m. - Huygens Probe News Briefing (will confirm if we are receiving data from Huygens via relay by Cassini)
1 p.m. - NASA Update with Sean O'Keefe - KSC
5 p.m. - 6 p.m. - ESA Commentary and "Presentation of First Triplet Image of/data from Titan" - JPL/ESA

January 15, Saturday
5 a.m. - 6 a.m. - ESA Final Wrap Up on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
12 p.m. - 1 p.m. - ESA News Briefing "Early Look at Science Results" - JPL/ESA

All times are eastern; add 5 hours to get CET. ESA television schedule is similar except for the unrelated NASA Update.

russ_watters
2005-Jan-11, 10:44 PM
Why will it be so long between separation and entry?

Since Huygens has no propulsion system, Cassini must be on the same track as Huygens at the time of release, i.e., a collision course with Titan. The long lead time gives Cassini enough room to change its course so as not to collide with Titan. It was my understading that it wasn't released, but pushed at a couple of m/s. Over 3 weeks, that'd be all the difference in trajectory needed to send Cassini on a flyby and Huygens on a fly-into, right?

Kullat Nunu
2005-Jan-11, 11:05 PM
Why will it be so long between separation and entry?

Since Huygens has no propulsion system, Cassini must be on the same track as Huygens at the time of release, i.e., a collision course with Titan. The long lead time gives Cassini enough room to change its course so as not to collide with Titan. It was my understading that it wasn't released, but pushed at a couple of m/s. Over 3 weeks, that'd be all the difference in trajectory needed to send Cassini on a flyby and Huygens on a fly-into, right?

It was released and rotated up by springs. Huygens detached from Cassini at a speed of 0.35 m/s.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-11, 11:51 PM
Why will it be so long between separation and entry?

Since Huygens has no propulsion system, Cassini must be on the same track as Huygens at the time of release, i.e., a collision course with Titan. The long lead time gives Cassini enough room to change its course so as not to collide with Titan. It was my understading that it wasn't released, but pushed at a couple of m/s. Over 3 weeks, that'd be all the difference in trajectory needed to send Cassini on a flyby and Huygens on a fly-into, right?

No, Cassini actually did a burn to change its course.

01101001
2005-Jan-12, 02:31 AM
Huygens Descent Timeline (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMXYGQ3K3E_0.html)

2005 January 14

All times below are Earth received time. Actual spacecraft events occur 67 minutes earlier, as this is the time taken for signals to reach Earth from Cassini.


10:51 CET 04:51 EST Huygens turns transmitters on

Although Huygens cannot contact Cassini during the first part of the descent, it turns on its transmitters in preparation.

11:13 CET 05:13 EST Huygens reaches 'interface altitude'

The 'interface altitude' is defined as 1270 kilometres above the surface of the moon where entry into Titan's atmosphere takes place.

11:16 CET 05:16 EST Pilot parachute deploys

The parachute deploys when Huygens detects that it has slowed to 400 metres per second, at about 180 kilometres above Titan's surface. The pilot parachute is the probe's smallest, only 2.6 metres in diameter. Its sole purpose is to pull off the probe's rear cover, which protected Huygens from the frictional heat of entry. 2.5 seconds after the pilot parachute is deployed, the rear cover is released and the pilot parachute is pulled away. The main parachute, which is 8.3 metres in diameter, unfurls.

11:17 CET 05:17 EST Huygens begins transmitting to Cassini and front shield released

At about 160 kilometres above the surface, the front shield is released.

42 seconds after the pilot parachute is deployed, inlet ports are opened up for the Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer and Aerosol Collector Pyrolyser instruments, and booms are extended to expose the Huygens Atmospheric Structure Instruments.

The Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer will capture its first panorama, and it will continue capturing images and spectral data throughout the descent. The Surface Science Package will also be switched on, measuring atmospheric properties.

11:32 CET 05:32 EST Main parachute separates and drogue parachute deploys

The drogue parachute is 3 metres in diameter. At this level in the atmosphere, about 125 metres in altitude, the large main parachute would slow Huygens down so much that the batteries would not last for the entire descent to the surface. The drogue parachute will allow it to descend at the right pace to gather the maximum amount of data.

11:49 CET 05:49 EST Surface proximity sensor activated

Until this point, all of Huygens's actions have been based on clock timers. At a height of 60 kilometres, it will be able to detect its own altitude using a pair of radar altimeters, which will be able to measure the exact distance to the surface. The probe will constantly monitor its spin rate and altitude and feed this information to the science instruments. All times after this are approximate.

11:56 CET 05:56 EST Possible icing effects to probe

The probe has been designed to withstand possible icing as it descends to 50 kilometres above the surface, through the coldest part of the atmosphere.

12:57 CET 06:57 EST Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer begins sampling atmosphere

This is the last of Huygens's instruments to be activated fully. The descent is expected to take 137 minutes in total, plus or minus 15 minutes. Throughout its descent, the spacecraft will continue to spin at a rate of between 1 and 20 rotations per minute, allowing the camera and other instruments to see the entire panorama around the descending spacecraft.

13:30 CET 07:30 EST Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer lamp turned on

Close to the surface, Huygens's camera instrument will turn on a light. The light is particularly important for the 'Spectral Radiometer' part of the instrument to determine the composition of Titan's surface accurately.

13:34 CET 07:34 EST Surface touchdown

This time may vary by plus or minus 15 minutes depending on how Titan's atmosphere and winds affect Huygens's parachuting descent. Huygens will hit the surface at a speed of 5-6 metres per second. Huygens could land on a hard surface of rock or ice or possibly land on an ethane sea. In either case, Huygens's Surface Science Package is designed to capture every piece of information about the surface that can be determined in the three remaining minutes that Huygens is designed to survive after landing.

15:44 CET 09:44 EST Cassini stops collecting data

Huygens's landing site drops below Titan's horizon as seen by Cassini and the orbiter stops collecting data. Cassini will listen for Huygens's signal as long as there is the slightest possibility that it can be detected. Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.

16:24 CET 10:24 EST First data received on Earth

Getting data from Cassini to Earth is now routine, but for the Huygens mission, additional safeguards are put in place to make sure that none of Huygens's data are lost. Giant radio antennas around the world will listen for Cassini as the orbiter relays repeated copies of Huygens data.

Jerry
2005-Jan-12, 06:13 AM
For a preview of the imaging coverage expected from the Huygens' Descent Imager,
visit:

http://ciclops.org


Entry into the atmosphere begins around 11:15 am Friday, January 14, in
Darmstadt, Germany, the location of the Huygens Operations Center, or
early morning hours in the States. The first set of images will likely not
be available for several hours after that ...perhaps mid-morning
in the western US.

The event will be covered live on CNN, and a 20-minute segment of `60
Minutes', to be aired on Sunday, January 16, will be devoted to the Cassini mission, including the Huygens landing.

Needless to say, this is one occasion you will not want to miss.

Thanks, Carolyn!

Elias
2005-Jan-12, 08:57 AM
It is really strange that we are getting so much data from JPL websites, rather than from ESA. However, I have to note that ESA websites have improved greatly compared to what they were a couple of years ago. Maybe they will keep on improving

Anyway, lets hope for the best with Huygens. It seems that it had a good start:

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMY0HQ3K3E_0.html

That was areally clever method to estimate the spin rate + velocity

Maksutov
2005-Jan-12, 10:05 AM
I just sent this email to ESA.


Hello,

I think you should immediately reconsider your plan to delay release of Huygens imaging until after the data are processed. I understand this will result in a one day delay in releasing the photos, etc.

One aspect of the current MER and 1997's Pathfinder missions that really captured the attention of the public was the real-time imagery and reactions by the engineers and scientists that were broadcast over television as these events occurred. This "as it is happening" coverage and real-time release of data created a surge in public interest that did not wane for a long time.

I think ESA is missing a wonderful opportunity to share its findings with the public as they occur, and to enable the same kind of public interest as with the Mars missions mentioned above. Public interest is a critical factor in getting funds authorized for new missions.

Finally, as a person who was directly involved in the design and production of components that are currently being used on this mission, I, along with everyone else who are Cassini/Huygens stakeholders, would like to know immediately how things are going and what kind of results our efforts have produced. Even if it's a few raw, unprocessed images, we'll know right away that what we made worked!

kucharek
2005-Jan-12, 11:55 AM
DISR public website

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kholso/

ToSeek
2005-Jan-12, 05:36 PM
Plunge to Methane Lake? (http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid= 1385&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)


Anthony Del Genio of the Cassini Imaging team takes a tour of the strange and perplexing world, Titan, where hurricane winds and supercold smog promise some of the most startling imagery in our solar system. The mission to descend towards Titan's surface will draw global attention in a few days, when a tiny space probe will test the limits of parachutes, cameras and communications.

01101001
2005-Jan-13, 05:46 AM
Artwork, to help you imagine Huygens' landing on Titan. Click on thumbnails to see larger versions.

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000609-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=609)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000608-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=608)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000607-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=607)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000621-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=621)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000625-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=625)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000626-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=626)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000629-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=629)

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/artwork/IMG000627-th120.jpg (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=627)

R.A.F.
2005-Jan-13, 02:04 PM
Carolyn Poco wrote...

Slight "nit-pick"...it's actually Carolyn Porco.

kucharek
2005-Jan-13, 02:13 PM
Carolyn Poco wrote...

Slight "nit-pick"...it's actually Carolyn Porco.

Yeah. That's a great surname when you work on an US-Italian project... :D

ngc3314
2005-Jan-13, 02:19 PM
ESA taking the wrong tack on Huygens imagery?:

Live from another world (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/302/1)
Wow. Will ESA ever get this right?
I didn't know that and I'm very disappointed. I agree, bad PR move.

Yes, they complain about the failure of Beagle overshadowing the success of Mars Express, but then they're dispensing Mars Express imagery with an eyedropper.

I had hoped that ESA woud have learned from the disaster they made of the spectacular Giotto encounter - a roomful of TV crews graciously allowed to point cameras through a window at the operations team with no on-the-fly information from the project. I was flipping back and forth among BBC plus Dutch and German networks, none getting anything better. The first hint of an interruption from hitting a dust particle was noting the operators standing in front of a monitor scratching their heads. I figure ESA thinks their PR target is rather different from NASA's, but in today's interconnected world this may not be so.

There is another echo of Giotto as well. The Halley Multicolour Camera team allowed near-real-time image release only in a strange pseudocolor palette, quite difficult to interpret for solid objects, and was pretty clear that they did this to reduce the chance of anyone else seeing something interesting in the data before they did. I'm guessing that, at least until we see images from low altitude, Titan will be just as difficult to interpret - the biggest chunk of such alien and solid real estate left in the Solar System (sort of what Carolyn Porco said).

Fram
2005-Jan-13, 02:22 PM
To come back to an earlier post: I seem to remember that one of the reasons the battery life of Huygens is restricted (apart from all the valid reasons already mentioned) is because it has very bright lights to get a bit of vision through the 'fog' of Titan. Now try to let your lights on, and see how long your car battery lasts then...

Huygens and Deep impact have gotten some coverage in my newspaper a well (way too little seeing the importance of them, but it's better than nothing), but they have again succeeded in mixing astrologists and astronomers... it can not be that difficult to find one journalist for a paper who knows the basics of most sciences, no?

kucharek
2005-Jan-13, 03:22 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0113titan13.html


For UA profs, 17-year dream is at hand
Voyage to Saturn's moon Titan comes down to last 30 minutes

Elias
2005-Jan-13, 03:50 PM
I seem to remember that one of the reasons the battery life of Huygens is restricted (apart from all the valid reasons already mentioned)

Actually, there is enough battery power on Huygens. Huygens has 5 batteries that provide a total of 2059 Wh power.

The nominal mission requires only 972 Wh and a "worst case scenario" that has been calculated corresponds to 1167 Wh.

They also consider a 400 Wh for the "preheating" of the probe: I think the probe will be switched on 4 hours before the original plan. This is done to shift the comm frequency in a way to even reduce the doppler problem. The reference frequency is dependent on the temperature of clock oscillators that generate it.

So, even if you apply the additional 400 Wh, there is still a lot left. Huygens was planned with a lot of redundancy.


...is because it has very bright lights to get a bit of vision through the 'fog' of Titan. Now try to let your lights on, and see how long your car battery lasts then...

The surface lamp of the DISR experiment (imager) is not used to brighten the terrain to get a better view. It will be used only the last seconds of descent: it will be turned on ~100m above the surface to perform simple active remote sensing experiments. This means, that the scientists will measure the characterisitics of the reflected light (of known properties) coming from the surface, and therefore get some information about the material of the surface.

So, actually, the lamp is not so "power consuming"

Kullat Nunu
2005-Jan-13, 04:13 PM
Updated NASA TV schedule:


January 14, Friday
3 a.m. - 3:30 a.m. - Live Coverage and Commentary "Cassini Turns Towards Titan - Interruption of Radio Contact" - JPL/ESA
5 a.m. - 6 a.m. - Live Coverage and Commentary "The Huygens Probe Enters the Atmosphere of Titan" - JPL/ESA
7:30 a.m. - 8 a.m. - ESA News Briefing "Mission Status" - JPL/ESA
8:30 a.m. - 9:15 a.m. - ESA Commentary on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
10 a.m. - 10:30 a.m. - ESA Commentary "Cassini Turns Back to Earth - Data Transmission Begins" - JPL/ESA
10:30 a.m. - 11:15 a.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
11:15 a.m. - 12:15 p.m. - Huygens Probe News Briefing (will confirm if we are receiving data from Huygens via relay by Cassini)
12 - 12:30 p.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
1 p.m. - NASA Update with Sean O'Keefe - KSC
2:45 - 3:15 p.m. - ESA Commentary "Presentation of First 18 Images from Titan" - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
5 p.m. - 5:30 p.m. - ESA Commentary and "Additional Images from Tital & B-Roll" - JPL/ESA
5:30 - 6 p.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)

January 15, Saturday
5 a.m. - 6 a.m. - ESA Final Wrap Up on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
12 p.m. - 1 p.m. - ESA News Briefing "Early Look at Science Results" - JPL/ESA

pumpkinpie
2005-Jan-13, 04:28 PM
What time zone is this in, please?


Updated NASA TV schedule:


January 14, Friday
3 a.m. - 3:30 a.m. - Live Coverage and Commentary "Cassini Turns Towards Titan - Interruption of Radio Contact" - JPL/ESA
5 a.m. - 6 a.m. - Live Coverage and Commentary "The Huygens Probe Enters the Atmosphere of Titan" - JPL/ESA
7:30 a.m. - 8 a.m. - ESA News Briefing "Mission Status" - JPL/ESA
8:30 a.m. - 9:15 a.m. - ESA Commentary on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
10 a.m. - 10:30 a.m. - ESA Commentary "Cassini Turns Back to Earth - Data Transmission Begins" - JPL/ESA
10:30 a.m. - 11:15 a.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
11:15 a.m. - 12:15 p.m. - Huygens Probe News Briefing (will confirm if we are receiving data from Huygens via relay by Cassini)
12 - 12:30 p.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
1 p.m. - NASA Update with Sean O'Keefe - KSC
2:45 - 3:15 p.m. - ESA Commentary "Presentation of First 18 Images from Titan" - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
5 p.m. - 5:30 p.m. - ESA Commentary and "Additional Images from Tital & B-Roll" - JPL/ESA
5:30 - 6 p.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)

January 15, Saturday
5 a.m. - 6 a.m. - ESA Final Wrap Up on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
12 p.m. - 1 p.m. - ESA News Briefing "Early Look at Science Results" - JPL/ESA

Drakheim
2005-Jan-13, 04:29 PM
What time zone is this in, please?


Eastern. :D

pumpkinpie
2005-Jan-13, 04:35 PM
What time zone is this in, please?


Eastern. :D
=D> Yay. Just wanted to be sure. Thanks.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-13, 06:28 PM
Huygens descent timeline with EST in parentheses (http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/huygens_timeline.html?1312005)

Chip
2005-Jan-13, 07:49 PM
...and when on-line, its always good to check here (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm) periodically.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 07:13 AM
Three hours to the atmospheric descent phase. :)

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 08:10 AM
NASA TV/ESA coverage has started. (http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html)

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 08:50 AM
NASA TV/ESA coverage has started. (http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html)
Apparently NASA TV has decided the ESA feed isn't interesting and has dropped the connection, with plans to resume at 5 AM EST.l

Meanwhile, I wonder if ToSeek has even seen Athena Coustenis? :D

beskeptical
2005-Jan-14, 09:19 AM
Well according to the plan the probe just entered the atmosphere a few minutes ago.

Jan. 14, 2005: Huygens begins its descent through Titan's cloudy atmosphere, where it lands on the surface about two and half hours later. The probe is scheduled to encounter the upper fringes of Titan's atmosphere at 09:00 UTC. :D :D

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 10:01 AM
Oh my! What are those rectangular shapes is this DISR mosaic (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kholso/Picture5.jpg)?

Oh, by the way, this is a test shot from Picacho Peak in Arizona, from Field Test Images (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kholso/test_images.htm).

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:06 AM
NASA TV has resumed its coverage but I'm not getting any sound. Anyone got a sound feed?

steinhenge
2005-Jan-14, 10:06 AM
Is anyone else getting no sound on the NASA TV broadcast? I've got zero audio on the NASA channel as well as NASA TV online.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:07 AM
NASA TV has resumed its coverage but I'm not getting any sound. Anyone got a sound feed?
OK, the sound just kicked in, about 6 minutes after the start of the broadcast.

steinhenge
2005-Jan-14, 10:08 AM
NASA TV has resumed its coverage but I'm not getting any sound. Anyone got a sound feed?
OK, the sound just kicked in, about 6 minutes after the start of the broadcast.

Thank goodness!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:15 AM
Per the mission timeline (http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/huygens_timeline.html?1312005), we have now reached the 'interface altitude', which is defined as 1270 kilometres above the surface of the moon where entry into Titan's atmosphere takes place.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:17 AM
5:17 AM EST Pilot parachute deploys
The parachute deploys when Huygens detects that it has slowed to 400 metres per second, at about 180 kilometres above Titan's surface. The pilot parachute is the probe's smallest, only 2.6 metres in diameter. Its sole purpose is to pull off the probe's rear cover, which protected Huygens from the frictional heat of entry.

2.5 seconds after the pilot parachute is deployed, the rear cover is released and the pilot parachute is pulled away. The main parachute, which is 8.3 metres in diameter, unfurls.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:18 AM
1018 UTC (5:18 am EST) - Huygens begins transmitting to Cassini and front shield released

At about 160 kilometres above the surface, the front shield is released.

42 seconds after the pilot parachute is deployed, inlet ports are opened up for the Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer and Aerosol Collector Pyrolyser instruments, and booms are extended to expose the Huygens Atmospheric Structure Instruments.

The Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer will capture its first panorama, and it will continue capturing images and spectral data throughout the descent. The Surface Science Package will also be switched on, measuring atmospheric properties.

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:19 AM
"1018 UTC (5:18 am EST) - Huygens begins transmitting to Cassini and front shield released. At about 160 kilometres above the surface, the front shield is released."

Okay, that's right about...now...

So how long until we 'hear' this signal with all the radio 'scopes trained out thataways? How many light-minutes away is this happening?

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 10:23 AM
"1018 UTC (5:18 am EST) - Huygens begins transmitting to Cassini and front shield released. At about 160 kilometres above the surface, the front shield is released."

Okay, that's right about...now...

So how long until we 'hear' this signal with all the radio 'scopes trained out thataways? How many light-minutes away is this happening?

67

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 10:23 AM
So how long until we 'hear' this signal with all the radio 'scopes trained out thataways? How many light-minutes away is this happening?
I believe the timeline being quoted is in terms of Earth-receive time.

(Events around Saturn are received here 67 minutes later.)

Elias
2005-Jan-14, 10:24 AM
Its 67 light minutes

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:29 AM
Huygens will reach Titan at 1013 UTC (5:15 am EST), and then deploy its parachute a few minutes after that. It will reach the surface by 1234 UTC (7:34 am EST), and data about the journey will arrive at Earth shortly after.

Well, maybe I shoulda read the stuff I saved here a tad more closely...

Okay, so we won't know until maybe 6:25 ayem...I been waiting for this all night, got off work at midnite eastern...I gotta go check my eyelids for light leaks...there'll be a lot of hootin' and hollerin' over this at the astro club meeting tonite...

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:30 AM
So how long until we 'hear' this signal with all the radio 'scopes trained out thataways? How many light-minutes away is this happening?
I believe the timeline being quoted is in terms of Earth-receive time.

(Events around Saturn are received here 67 minutes later.)
Unless I'm mistaken the timeline is "real-time" or local Saturn time. IOW, this is happening right now.

Per the timeline


Huygens will reach Titan at 1013 UTC (5:15 am EST), and then deploy its parachute a few minutes after that.

Also I believe Cassini will be accumulating all the data in its "Titan orientation" and then will move to point its main antenna at Earth and transmit all the data. Therefore there's going to be quite a delay, i.e., more than 67 minutes, until we get our first data.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:32 AM
1032 UTC (5:32 am EST) - Main parachute separates and drogue parachute deploys

The drogue parachute is 3 metres in diameter. At this level in the atmosphere, about 125 kilometres in altitude, the large main parachute would slow Huygens down so much that the batteries would not last for the entire descent to the surface. The drogue parachute will allow it to descend at the right pace to gather the maximum amount of data.

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:33 AM
OOOOOHHHH!!!!!

WE HAVE SIGNAL!!!

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 10:34 AM
Unless I'm mistaken the timeline is "real-time" or local Saturn time. IOW, this is happening right now.


The ESA Huygens Timeline has:


11.18 Huygens begins transmitting to Cassini and front shield released

That is 11.18 CET or 5:18 EST, 2:18 PST. But, that is:


All times above are "Earth Received" time - i.e. 67 minutes after the actual events have taken place at the spacecraft.

So, the transmission began 10.11 CET, 4:11 EST, 1:11 PST.

Flash! They heard a signal!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:34 AM
On the film of the parachute test for Huygens, did anyone catch the "'HALLO, 'HALLO" written on the backshield?

Ian R
2005-Jan-14, 10:35 AM
WE HAVE A SIGNAL!!!!! :D

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:35 AM
Confirmation of signal from Huygens!

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:36 AM
Yup...I thought it said " 'Allo, 'Allo "...what, there was a Britcom type on the development team?

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 10:36 AM
OOOOOHHHH!!!!!

WE HAVE SIGNAL!!!
So, that signal started out 67 minutes earlier, and just arrived here now.

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 10:37 AM
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:38 AM
[edit]


All times above are "Earth Received" time - i.e. 67 minutes after the actual events have taken place at the spacecraft.
Thanks for that information. The Universe Today timeline page didn't make that clear.

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:38 AM
Hot diddley ding dong d@mn...

PITCHERS!!!! WE WANT PITCHERS!!!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:39 AM
Hot diddley ding dong d@mn...

PITCHERS!!!! WE WANT PITCHERS!!!
Sho 'nuff! BARKEEP! LINE 'EM UP!

Plus some White Castles and Skylines!

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 10:40 AM
So how long until we 'hear' this signal with all the radio 'scopes trained out thataways? How many light-minutes away is this happening?
I believe the timeline being quoted is in terms of Earth-receive time.

(Events around Saturn are received here 67 minutes later.)
That is correct.
The actual happening takes place 67 minutes before the time mentioned on that list.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:42 AM
OOOOOHHHH!!!!!

WE HAVE SIGNAL!!!
So, that signal started out 67 minutes earlier, and just arrived here now.
BTW, that neatly explains the approximately one hour difference between the timeline and the ESA countdown clock.

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 10:43 AM
Green Bank (http://www.gb.nrao.edu/) in West Virginia confirmed carrier signal from Huygens.

No data yet.

Cugel
2005-Jan-14, 10:46 AM
spaceflightnow.com reports the signal has been received by radiotelescopes!

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:46 AM
Hot diddley ding dong d@mn...

PITCHERS!!!! WE WANT PITCHERS!!!
Sho 'nuff! BARKEEP! LINE 'EM UP!

Plus some White Castles and Skylines!

...man...Skyline Chili, White Castle hamboogers, and Robin Hood Cream Ale...trust me on this one, the voice of experience is expostulating here...we're talkin' rocket fuel...the 'end' result (so to speak) results in a toxic and quite possibly explosive atmosphere...ahhhh, shades of my misspent youth...


BTW, the signal is confirmed as the carrier. There is no data transmission yet.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 10:49 AM
1049 UTC (5:49 am EST) - Surface proximity sensor activated(about 67 minutes ago at Titan)

Until this point, all of Huygens's actions have been based on clock timers. At a height of 60 kilometres, it will be able to detect its own altitude using a pair of radar altimeters, which will be able to measure the exact distance to the surface. The probe will constantly monitor its spin rate and altitude and feed this information to the science instruments. All times after this are approximate.

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:51 AM
They're yabbling about the CD full of stuff that's on board, including some music...wouldn't mind having a copy of that...

My digital 'signature' is on board Deep Impact...gonna be one heckuva ride!

Cugel
2005-Jan-14, 10:52 AM
As for 'live' events I think this is it for about the next 4 hours. Until Cassini starts transmitting back to Earth. Is that correct?
(How much champagne can one cool in 4 hours...)

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 10:54 AM
It just crossed my mind, about the march of technology...

My great-grandmother (who I do remember) was born in the 1880's. She passed away on the day of John Glenn's Mercury flight...and here I sit, listening to news of a scientific probe landing on a moon of another planet.

Kinda spooky...

SkyeLab
2005-Jan-14, 11:03 AM
Am I correct in thinking that some observatories were going to try and detect a "flash" as Huygens hit the Titan atmosphere? Any news from them?

Brian

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-14, 11:04 AM
At the distances involved, wouldn't that be kinda tough?

I know some were considering trying that for the Deep Impact mission, but it sorta sounds to me like there wouldn't be any sort of 'flash' from atmospheric contact...

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 11:09 AM
It just crossed my mind, about the march of technology...

My great-grandmother (who I do remember) was born in the 1880's. She passed away on the day of John Glenn's Mercury flight...and here I sit, listening to news of a scientific probe landing on a moon of another planet.

Kinda spooky...
I know that spooky feeling, Charlie. My grandfather, who was also born in the 1880s, lived long enough to witness Apollo XI through XV. We used to talk a lot about many different subjects.

One topic we talked about was the people he knew when growing up. One person was over a hundred when my grandfather talked with him (strangely enough, about the "old days"). That was back in the 1890s, which meant that fellow had been born in the 1790s.

I asked my grandfather about his reaction to what had changed between the birth of the person he talked with, and now. "Almost unbelievable, but it has happened." was his reply.

I knew someone who knew someone who was born in the 1700s. Shudder.

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 11:10 AM
They're yabbling about the CD full of stuff that's on board, including some music...wouldn't mind having a copy of that...

My digital 'signature' is on board Deep Impact...gonna be one heckuva ride!

Do you mean this one?

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2568/huygenscdrom7ek.th.jpg (http://img48.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img48&image=huygenscdrom7ek.jpg)

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 11:11 AM
As for 'live' events I think this is it for about the next 4 hours. Until Cassini starts transmitting back to Earth. Is that correct?
(How much champagne can one cool in 4 hours...)
ESA Timeline (Earth-receive time):


16.14 First data sent to Earth
16.14 CET, 15:14 GMT, 10:14 EST, 7:14 PST

NASA-TV (http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html) keeps the party going (all times EST) till then:


6:30 a.m. - 7 a.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
7:30 a.m. - 8 a.m. - ESA News Briefing "Mission Status" - JPL/ESA
8:30 a.m. - 9:15 a.m. - ESA Commentary on Huygens Probe Mission - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
9:30 a.m. - 10 a.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
10 a.m. - 10:30 a.m. - ESA Commentary "Cassini Turns Back to Earth - Data Transmission Begins" - JPL/ESA
10:30 a.m. - 11:15 a.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)
11:15 a.m. - 12 p.m. - Huygens Probe News Briefing - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
1 p.m. - NASA Update with Sean O'Keefe - KSC
2:45 - 3:15 p.m. - ESA Commentary "Presentation of First 18 Images from Titan" - JPL/ESA (Mission Coverage)
5 p.m. - 5:30 p.m. - ESA Commentary and "Additional Images from Tital & B-Roll" - JPL/ESA
5:30 - 6 p.m. - JPL Commentary - JPL (Mission Coverage)

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 11:13 AM
They're yabbling about the CD full of stuff that's on board, including some music...wouldn't mind having a copy of that...

My digital 'signature' is on board Deep Impact...gonna be one heckuva ride!

Do you mean this one?

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2568/huygenscdrom7ek.th.jpg (http://img48.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img48&image=huygenscdrom7ek.jpg)

Well I need to reinstall Windows 3.1 to see it. :D

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 11:13 AM
Am I correct in thinking that some observatories were going to try and detect a "flash" as Huygens hit the Titan atmosphere? Any news from them?

Brian

That's what I heard. No news yet. I guess it shouldn't be too difficult for an infrared telescope to detect something in the very cold atmosphere of Titan. I don't think they look for a flash in the optical area, as the entry is in daylight.

SkyeLab
2005-Jan-14, 11:20 AM
QUOTE "The most exciting possibility is that the observations may show a tiny, bright speck at the moment Huygens enters the atmosphere. "

From http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-releases-04/20041104-pr-a.cfm


I knew I had read it somewhere........ 8) [/url]

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 11:22 AM
They're yabbling about the CD full of stuff that's on board, including some music...wouldn't mind having a copy of that...

My digital 'signature' is on board Deep Impact...gonna be one heckuva ride!

Do you mean this one?

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2568/huygenscdrom7ek.th.jpg (http://img48.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img48&image=huygenscdrom7ek.jpg)

Well I need to reinstall Windows 3.1 to see it. :D
Or worse, Mac OS 7.0. Here come the bombs with the burning fuses!

However, the word "minimum" may be a key...

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 11:34 AM
They're yabbling about the CD full of stuff that's on board, including some music...wouldn't mind having a copy of that...

My digital 'signature' is on board Deep Impact...gonna be one heckuva ride!

Do you mean this one?

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2568/huygenscdrom7ek.th.jpg (http://img48.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img48&image=huygenscdrom7ek.jpg)

Well I need to reinstall Windows 3.1 to see it. :D
Or worse, Mac OS 7.0. Here come the bombs with the burning fuses!

However, the word "minimum" may be a key...
Maybe on MacOS. :wink:

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 11:37 AM
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMIEPQ3K3E_0.html


Radio astronomers confirm Huygens entry in the atmosphere of Titan

14 January 2005
The Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope (GBT) in West Virginia, USA, a part of the global network of radio telescopes involved in tracking the Huygens Titan probe, has detected the probe's 'carrier' (tone) signal.

The detection occurred between 11:20 and 11:25 CET, shortly after the probe began its parachute descent through Titan's atmosphere. The extremely feeble signal was first picked up by the Radio Science Receiver supplied by the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. This signal is an important indication that the Huygens probe is 'alive'. However, it does not contain yet any substance; the latter is expected to come a few hours later via the Cassini spacecraft.

What the Green Bank radio telescope has detected is only a ‘carrier’ signal. It indicates that the back cover of Huygens must have been ejected, the main parachute must have been deployed and that the probe has begun to transmit, in other words, the probe is ‘alive’. This, however, still does not mean that any data have been acquired, nor that they have been received by Cassini. The carrier signal is sent continuously throughout the descent and as such does not contain any scientific data. It is similar to the tone signal heard in a telephone handset once the latter is picked up.

Only after having received the data packets at ESOC will it be possible to say with certainty whether data were properly acquired. The first data set from Cassini will reach ESOC in the afternoon. Additional downlinks will follow throughout the evening and night for redundancy.

Further analysis of the signals will be conducted using other three independent data acquisition systems at the Green Bank Telescope. In addition to the GBT, sixteen other radio telescopes in Australia, China, Japan and the USA are involved in tracking the Huygens probe.

The ultimate goal of the tracking experiment is to reconstruct the probe's descent trajectory with an unprecedented accuracy of the order of one kilometre. The measurements will be conducted using Very Long Baseline Interferometry (VLBI) and Doppler tracking techniques. This would enable studies of the dynamics of Titan's atmosphere, which is considered to be a 'frozen' copy of that of the early Earth.

The VLBI component of the tracking experiment is coordinated by the Joint Institute for VLBI in Europe (JIVE) and ESA; the Doppler measurements are conducted by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 11:42 AM
Around this time, Huygens should be on Titan's surface.

[Add] Woops, wrong time. CET/UTC mixup :oops:

Timm
2005-Jan-14, 11:44 AM
This sounds really cool! And now I have to go to a "Datenexploration" - exercise and can't get any news on this... :(

I alway delivered robots and farming machines to Titan... Huygens should find piles of them. :roll:

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 11:59 AM
1157 UTC (6:57 am EST) - Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer begins sampling atmosphere (about 67 minutes ago, Titan time)

This is the last of Huygens's instruments to be activated fully. The descent is expected to take 137 minutes in total, plus or minus 15 minutes. Throughout its descent, the spacecraft will continue to spin at a rate of between 1 and 20 rotations per minute, allowing the camera and other instruments to see the entire panorama around the descending spacecraft.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 12:04 PM
This sounds really cool! And now I have to go to a "Datenexploration" - exercise and can't get any news on this... :(

I alway delivered robots and farming machines to Titan... Huygens should find piles of them. :roll:
Welches Jahr war das?

Elias
2005-Jan-14, 12:20 PM
I cant wait for the pictures. According to scientific simulations performed at Max Planck Institute, they expect the color of the sky being green close to the surface, rather than red, as we see in artistic views...

Check this simulated descent movie through the atmosphere:

http://www.space-vision.biz/descentmovie.de.html
(movie: http://www.linmpi.mpg.de/~grieger/descent03.mpeg)

Plus, you can also check this pdf about the visibility of the surface:

http://www.linmpi.mpg.de/~grieger/visibility.pdf

All this is part of this nice website: http://www.space-vision.biz/mission.huygens.de.html

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 12:29 PM
Thanks, Elias, those are great links. Green, eh? Guess we'll all find out soon how accurate those predictions are.

1230 UTC (7:30 am EST) - Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer lamp turned on (67 minutes ago per Titan time)

Close to the surface, Huygens's camera instrument will turn on a light. The light is particularly important for the 'Spectral Radiometer' part of the instrument to determine the composition of Titan's surface accurately.

Per Earth time, Huygens should have just landed!

BTW, NASA TV/ESA coverage is again broadcasting live.

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 12:31 PM
I cant wait for the pictures.
But as mentioned on that site, expect no pictures before 23:00h CET.

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 12:32 PM
Close to the surface, Huygens's camera instrument will turn on a light. The light is particularly important for the 'Spectral Radiometer' part of the instrument to determine the composition of Titan's surface accurately.
Noooo! Don't turn on a light. It will attack giant cryo-squid!

Eroica
2005-Jan-14, 12:32 PM
ESA media briefing on NASA TV (http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html)

Huygens is alive - we have a signal (Green Bank)
Approaching the end of its descent to the surface
Signal has been solid for two hours
Signal has been acquired in Hobart and Parks, Australia!

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 12:40 PM
Until now no new informations.
Only a lot of "we are so happy to have a signal", and "we have a long way still ahead of us"...

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 12:40 PM
1234 UTC (7:34 am EST) - Surface touchdown (approximately 67 minutes ago, Titan time)

This time may vary by plus or minus 15 minutes depending on how Titan's atmosphere and winds affect Huygens's parachuting descent. Huygens will hit the surface at a speed of 5-6 metres per second. Huygens could land on a hard surface of rock or ice or possibly land on an ethane sea. In either case, Huygens's Surface Science Package is designed to capture every piece of information about the surface that can be determined in the three remaining minutes that Huygens is designed to survive after landing.

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 12:42 PM
SIGNAL RECEIVED IN AUSTRALIA

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 12:43 PM
ESA media briefing on NASA TV (http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html)

David white-haired mustachioed ESA guy:

The baby's out of the womb, but we haven't counted the fingers and toes. He's very relieved. Still no data. Signal detected by Green Bank was long.

Next guy (American Diaz)said they had heard carrier for 2 hours.

Jean-Pierre French-guy: Probe transmitting. Doppler signal from Green Bank within a few Hz of model. Carrier signal now acquired in Australia ("The Dish" dish).

McDugan
2005-Jan-14, 12:44 PM
Keep this up to date guys! I'm at work and have no nasatv!

-Mcdugan

p.s. I'm hoping to see caveman looking into the camera

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 12:44 PM
The first data signal will arrive around 17:30 CET

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 12:47 PM
confirmation that one experiment is getting data (Doppler experiment)
The is some subsignal on the carrier signal

Eroica
2005-Jan-14, 12:50 PM
Second media briefing ends. Next briefing at 17:15 CET.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 12:51 PM
New conference is over! Where did the media get those reporters from? I think of about 100 more questions to ask!

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 12:53 PM
Keep this up to date guys! I'm at work and have no nasatv!

Whew, someone likes this. I was afraid a bunch of NASA-TV watchers were just telling each other what everyone was seeing.

I just remember one question from reporter: There's a rumor that not just carrier but real data was already received directly from Huygens. Answer: the doppler measurements could be considered data (and congratulations to that team), but no digital data received -- I think as far as he knew. I wasn't listening hard.

Edit: See post about subsignal above from Laguna2, who was probably listening better.

McDugan
2005-Jan-14, 01:08 PM
Keep this up to date guys! I'm at work and have no nasatv!

Whew, someone likes this. I was afraid a bunch of NASA-TV watchers were just telling each other what everyone was seeing.

I bet there are a ton of people refreshing this thread as the best up to date news source.

-McDugan

Fram
2005-Jan-14, 01:11 PM
Yep, this is my Huygens information centre, thank you guys and dolls (is that PC? Don't care, really, just wondering).

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:22 PM
Yep, this is my Huygens information centre, thank you guys and dolls (is that PC? Don't care, really, just wondering).
As far as Frank Loesser, Jo Swerling, and Abe Burrows are concerned, it's definitely PC (or even Mac!).

jamester
2005-Jan-14, 01:29 PM
I bet there are a ton of people refreshing this thread as the best up to date news source
Guilty as charged. :D

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:30 PM
NASA TV: ESA Huygens descent commentary starts now.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:31 PM
No sound yet, but lots of smiling faces.

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 01:32 PM
Next guy (American Diaz)said they had heard carrier for 2 hours.

The timeline had Huygens transmitting from 11.16 CET to a landing at 13.34 +/- 15 minutes, so two hours could be pretty much the full deal, though Cassini doesn't stop listening until 15.54 CET.

I do believe the report of 2 hours meant about-2 hours, and was not a precise measure. Also, it could mean at least 2 hours, just the number they could report at that time.

===

Oops it's 14:30 CET and NASA-TV/ESA-TV has come alive again, with smiling people in a control room.

Very good news, says the ESA anchor dude, referring back to recent press conference quotes.

Latest news on signal: still receiving signal from probe.

Probe landed and is STILL sending data!!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:33 PM
Per ESA reps, Huygens is on the surface and is sending data!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:35 PM
No details yet as to whether or not it's using oars or paddles... :D

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 01:35 PM
Elation and anticipation.

For what has happened, for what is to come.

Surface Science package PI says can't believe it, they're on surface. Office pool had folks favoring a soft gooey landing.
Expect to be collecting data. Doesn't know if it's liquid or solid.
Describing surface instruments.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:38 PM
Now talking about motion sensors re waves, and sonar for the depth of the liquid (if that's where they are).

EFossa
2005-Jan-14, 01:39 PM
Where they able to confirm the probe reached the surface? Or is it an assumption based on the time of the decent?

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 01:41 PM
Where they able to confirm the probe reached the surface? Or is it an assumption based on the time of the decent?
As far as I understand the landing is confirmed.
They are now talking about the collecting of aerosols

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:43 PM
The landing would have been over an hour ago per the timeline, plus the carrier signal has probably changed its characteristics, among other things, Huygens no longer being in motion relative to Titan.

EFossa
2005-Jan-14, 01:44 PM
Where they able to confirm the probe reached the surface? Or is it an assumption based on the time of the decent?
As far as I understand the landing is confirmed.
They are now talking about the collecting of aerosols

Ahh...once the probe reaches the surface its no longer moving, so perhaps they could see a change in the doppler shift?

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 01:45 PM
So we are now awaiting the loss of the signal from Huygens.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:47 PM
Where they able to confirm the probe reached the surface? Or is it an assumption based on the time of the decent?
As far as I understand the landing is confirmed.
They are now talking about the collecting of aerosols

Ahh...once the probe reaches the surface its no longer moving, so perhaps they could see a change in the doppler shift?
Definitely. Plus the fact there's been no problem with capturing the carrier is good news re its characterization for solving the doppler problem vis-a-avis the mother ship (i.e., Cassini).

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 01:47 PM
The landing would have been over an hour ago per the timeline, plus the carrier signal has probably changed its characteristics, among other things, Huygens no longer being in motion relative to Titan.

Since they're doing Doppler measurements, I bet they knew when it stopped moving relative to Titan.

I think they said the landing was 13.35 or 13.36 (Earth- received) CET, just after the predicted 13.34 middle of a 30-minute window for touchdown.

Edit: Later. Space.com (http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/huygens_descent_comm_050114.html) says it landed between 13.45 and 13.46 CET. I must have heard wrong.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:48 PM
So we are now awaiting the loss of the signal from Huygens.
Estimated as occurring at 14:44 UTC.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 01:52 PM
Explanation of the penetrometer. Looks like a Brale hardness tester. Hope our UAL rep isn't watching! :wink:

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 01:53 PM
Way to go, ESA and ASI! (NASA, too.)

Thanks for the fun -- and knowledge to come.

Fram
2005-Jan-14, 01:56 PM
Three cheers for ESA, NASA and all else involved! This looks to be the best space mission since, well, not that long ago, but since Opportunity and Spirit! =D> =D> =D>

Swift
2005-Jan-14, 01:57 PM
I can't wait, I want PICTURES!!!!!!
ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH
[-X
Sorry, I feel better now. :wink:

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 01:58 PM
So we are now awaiting the loss of the signal from Huygens.
Estimated as occurring at 14:44 UTC.

But only as seen from Cassini. As Titan is rotating only slowly, I guess we should be able to receive the direct signal until battery depletion. Should be of interest for the engineers.

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 01:59 PM
Three cheers for ESA, NASA and all else involved! This looks to be the best space mission since, well, not that long ago, but since Opportunity and Spirit! =D> =D> =D>
Shhhhh... Not too early
Until now we have no data from Titan.

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 01:59 PM
Three cheers for ESA, NASA and all else involved! This looks to be the best space mission since, well, not that long ago, but since Opportunity and Spirit! =D> =D> =D>
And it seems Huygens is from the same Die Hard class...

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 02:01 PM
Three cheers for ESA, NASA and all else involved! This looks to be the best space mission since, well, not that long ago, but since Opportunity and Spirit! =D> =D> =D>
Shhhhh... Not too early
Until now we have no data from Titan.

I'm in good hope, but there is still a chance for the dreadful glitch...
"Due to a wrong bit in the control command, Cassini didn't switch on its receiver after turning its main dish to wards Titan", or something like this.

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 02:04 PM
Signal is still there.

Fram
2005-Jan-14, 02:04 PM
Sorry, got carried away a bit :oops: But even if a glitch now happens (and that would be dreadful), from a technical point of view is Huygens already a huge success. That should at least be some consolation :lol:

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 02:05 PM
Mauna Kea tried to observe Huygens' fireball and wasn't seen yet, but they are still analyzing data.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:07 PM
Per Claudio Sollazzo, Huygens Mission Operations Manager, we are still receiving the signal from Huygens. :D

SkyeLab
2005-Jan-14, 02:07 PM
Was Hubble pointing Titanward too?

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 02:10 PM
They are now showing some prototypes for future Titan missions.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:11 PM
Three cheers for ESA, NASA and all else involved! This looks to be the best space mission since, well, not that long ago, but since Opportunity and Spirit! =D> =D> =D>
Shhhhh... Not too early
Until now we have no data from Titan.

I'm in good hope, but there is still a chance for the dreadful glitch...
"Due to a wrong bit in the control command, Cassini didn't switch on its receiver after turning its main dish to wards Titan", or something like this.
As John Cleese, as a Roman Centurion, in Life of Brian said:


Stop it!

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 02:13 PM
Everything looks "very very good".
Cassini should now be collecting data from Huygens.

jamester
2005-Jan-14, 02:13 PM
When do you guys expect them to have pictures up? Within the next hour or two or not until late this afternoon?

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:14 PM
End of the NASATV/ESA broadcast, with a final report that the Huygens carrier signal was still being detected.

Come on, data!

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 02:14 PM
When do you guys expect them to have pictures up? Within the next hour or two or not until late this afternoon?
Not before 23:00h CET

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 02:15 PM
Will probably be able to see carrier long after Cassini is over horizon.

Next NASA TV, Time EST, probably:

9:30 a.m. JPL Pre-Data Transmission Commentary

10 a.m. - 10:30 a.m. - ESA Commentary "Cassini Turns Back to Earth - Data Transmission Begins" - JPL/ESA

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:17 PM
When do you guys expect them to have pictures up? Within the next hour or two or not until late this afternoon?
Should be shortly after 10:14 AM EST, IF ESA decides to release raw data. If they decide to go only with processed data, then it might be quite a while after that.

jamester
2005-Jan-14, 02:20 PM
Should be shortly after 10:14 AM EST, IF ESA decides to release raw data. If they decide to go only with processed data, then it might be quite a while after that.

Not before 23:00h CET
Thank you for the replies

Nethius
2005-Jan-14, 02:21 PM
When do you guys expect them to have pictures up? Within the next hour or two or not until late this afternoon?
Should be shortly after 10:14 AM EST, IF ESA decides to release raw data. If they decide to go only with processed data, then it might be quite a while after that.

I really really hope they do! I'm so excited about see some pics of Titan. I hope all goes as planned!!!

gotta go back to work now... damnit!

Metricyard
2005-Jan-14, 02:21 PM
Awesome job from Nasa/ESA.

Congradulations!!!! =D> =D> \:D/

Now wheres are pictures?

McDugan
2005-Jan-14, 02:24 PM
Should be shortly after 10:14 AM EST, IF ESA decides to release raw data. If they decide to go only with processed data, then it might be quite a while after that.

To much PR value not to release raw data.

-McDugan

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 02:24 PM
The raw pics have a pretty narrow field of view. Mosaicking them together to get the bigger picture - and maybe being able to understand what we can see - will take some time.
But I would also be happy with some sashimi.

[Queen tune on]
I want it all! I want it all! I want it all! And I want it now!

[Queen tune off]

Philippe
2005-Jan-14, 02:26 PM
Should be shortly after 10:14 AM EST, IF ESA decides to release raw data. If they decide to go only with processed data, then it might be quite a while after that.

To much PR value not to release raw data.

-McDugan

hmmmm, was it in this thread or one of the other numerous Titan/Huygens threads here that I saw somebody quote an article mentionning that ESA had no plans to release raw data...
:evil:

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:32 PM
JPL Huygens broadcast has begun on NASA TV.

Matt McIrvin
2005-Jan-14, 02:35 PM
They're yabbling about the CD full of stuff that's on board, including some music...wouldn't mind having a copy of that...

The music is for sale on the iTunes Music Store (iTunes required):

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=39262481

There's also a free track:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=39262493

Not really my cup of tea, but I suppose it's historic...

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 02:36 PM
Huygens has transmitted at least 1.5 hours after landing.

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 02:37 PM
Facts we know:

Huyges decendet to the surface.
Huygens landed in one piece
Huygens continued to send his signal for at least 1 1/2 hours.
Everything else has to show.

gethen
2005-Jan-14, 02:38 PM
CNN says they're hoping to have some pictures by 2:00 p.m. EST. Fingers crossed!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:39 PM
Per Bob Mitchell, confirmation of what we heard, Huygens is there, and is healthy. Now for the science data which will start about 14:44 UTC.

That gal looks familiar, wasn't she our "media guide" during the MERs?

Laguna
2005-Jan-14, 02:40 PM
Thats it from me.
Leaving work and going home.
Hope to hear good news on the radio.

jumpjack
2005-Jan-14, 02:41 PM
Good news from spaceflight.com ???



FRIDAY, JANUARY 14, 2005
1403 GMT (9:03 a.m. EST) [15:03 Central Europe]

Huygens remains alive and sending its beeping signal from the surface -- more than an hour after controllers calculate it landed. The relay of science data to Cassini concludes later this hour as the orbiter goes over the horizon from the landing site.

The first science information is expected on Earth about two hours from now.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:41 PM
Thats it from me.
Leaving work and going home.
Hope to hear good news on the radio.
Thanks, Laguna2. Good job!

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:44 PM
1444 UTC 9:44 am EST) - Cassini stops collecting data

Huygens's landing site drops below Titan's horizon as seen by Cassini and the orbiter stops collecting data. Cassini will listen for Huygens's signal as long as there is the slightest possibility that it can be detected. Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.

jumpjack
2005-Jan-14, 02:45 PM
Facts we know:

Huygens continued to send his signal for at least 1 1/2 hours.
.
1 1/2 ?



8:35 a.m. EST: Huygens mission controllers report that the probe landed somewhere between 1:45 p.m. and 1:46 p.m. local time in Darmstadt, Germany (CET) , that's somewhere between 7:45 a.m. and 7:46 a.m. EST.

It's just an hour NOW since it landed! :) [-X

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 02:46 PM
Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.

Bye, Huygens. Thanks.

jumpjack
2005-Jan-14, 02:46 PM
1444 UTC 9:44 am EST) - Cassini stops collecting data

Huygens's landing site drops below Titan's horizon as seen by Cassini and the orbiter stops collecting data. Cassini will listen for Huygens's signal as long as there is the slightest possibility that it can be detected. Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.
Which are Huygens batteries duration and Cassini orbital period?

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 02:48 PM
It's just an hour NOW since it landed!

Huh? ESA Timeline:

13.34 CET Surface touchdown [Actually 13.45+]
15.44 CET Cassini stops collecting data [Just happened]

That's almost 2 hours total.

Elias
2005-Jan-14, 02:49 PM
hmmmm, was it in this thread or one of the other numerous Titan/Huygens threads here that I saw somebody quote an article mentionning that ESA had no plans to release raw data...


Of course they will release raw data. But the problem is that they wont do it the NASA way: real time, at least for the pictures... :-(

They have a different data release policy than NASA and they seem to be cautious not to let scientific teams other than the principal investigating teams of each experiment to have access to the data, before the first publications are done...

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 02:49 PM
1444 UTC 9:44 am EST) - Cassini stops collecting data

Huygens's landing site drops below Titan's horizon as seen by Cassini and the orbiter stops collecting data. Cassini will listen for Huygens's signal as long as there is the slightest possibility that it can be detected. Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.
Which are Huygens batteries duration and Cassini orbital period?
The batteries are designed to last at least three minutes after landing to support the Surface Science Package. Cassini isn't orbiting Titan, but is in orbit around Saturn. The next opportunity to acquire any Huygens signals is probably days away.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 02:49 PM
When do you guys expect them to have pictures up? Within the next hour or two or not until late this afternoon?
Should be shortly after 10:14 AM EST, IF ESA decides to release raw data. If they decide to go only with processed data, then it might be quite a while after that.

According to NASA's TV schedule (http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html), the press conference for releasing the first images starts at 2:45 pm EST.

SkyeLab
2005-Jan-14, 02:54 PM
So , will NASA/ESA name the landing site "Beagle Memorial Station"?

indie85
2005-Jan-14, 02:57 PM
1444 UTC 9:44 am EST) - Cassini stops collecting data

Huygens's landing site drops below Titan's horizon as seen by Cassini and the orbiter stops collecting data. Cassini will listen for Huygens's signal as long as there is the slightest possibility that it can be detected. Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.
Which are Huygens batteries duration and Cassini orbital period?
The batteries are designed to last at least three minutes after landing to support the Surface Science Package. Cassini isn't orbiting Titan, but is in orbit around Saturn. The next opportunity to acquire any Huygens signals is probably days away.

Well maybe some aliens will come and power it up again, like they did with opportunity :D

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:00 PM
NASA TV commentator (no picture):


Did it come on early? Or what? OK, OK!
Ah, I miss those good old days of 1950s LIVE TV! :D

jumpjack
2005-Jan-14, 03:01 PM
1444 UTC 9:44 am EST) - Cassini stops collecting data

Huygens's landing site drops below Titan's horizon as seen by Cassini and the orbiter stops collecting data. Cassini will listen for Huygens's signal as long as there is the slightest possibility that it can be detected. Once Huygens's landing site disappears below the horizon, there's no more chance of signal, and Huygens's work is finished.
Which are Huygens batteries duration and Cassini orbital period?
The batteries are designed to last at least three minutes after landing to support the Surface Science Package.

I remember I read somwehere that "extend mission" should last some hours... But I don't remember exactly. Any help?


Cassini isn't orbiting Titan, but is in orbit around Saturn.

OpPs... right! #-o

The next opportunity to acquire any Huygens signals is probably days away.
:-? #-o

I suppose Titan is too far from the Sun to use solar panels; but why didn't they use nuclear power?

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:01 PM
The Data Transmission broadcast has begun!

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 03:02 PM
Still seeing signal on Earth.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 03:03 PM
Still getting a signal from Huygens - batteries are holding out well - but Cassini is in the process of turning towards Earth and is no longer listening. (My understanding is that Cassini passed below Huygens' horizon, so couldn't hear anyway.)

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:03 PM
[edit]I suppose Titan is too far from the Sun to use solar panels; but why didn't they use nuclear power?
We did. I have that on the best authority! :D

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 03:06 PM
I suppose Titan is too far from the Sun to use solar panels; but why didn't they use nuclear power?

We've discussed this before. Odds are that the confidence that they could construct a probe to last 30 days in the unfamiliar environment of Titan was so limited that it wasn't worth the effort to try. Even if they could maintain a power supply, it could still freeze or sink.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:06 PM
[edit]I suppose Titan is too far from the Sun to use solar panels; but why didn't they use nuclear power?
BTW, it's not a power issue, since Cassini is (fortunately) nuclear, but instead a matter of orientation. If your signal source is on the opposite side of the moon in question, your reception will be very bad.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:10 PM
I suppose Titan is too far from the Sun to use solar panels; but why didn't they use nuclear power?

We've discussed this before. Odds are that the confidence that they could construct a probe to last 30 days in the unfamiliar environment of Titan was so limited that it wasn't worth the effort to try. Even if they could maintain a power supply, it could still freeze or sink.
Ah, nuclear-powered Huygens, instead of batteries...

The main problems would be weight and the proximity of the RTG(s) to the science instruments. The compact design of Huygens meant that nuclear power was not an option.

jumpjack
2005-Jan-14, 03:16 PM
I suppose Titan is too far from the Sun to use solar panels; but why didn't they use nuclear power?

We've discussed this before. Odds are that the confidence that they could construct a probe to last 30 days in the unfamiliar environment of Titan was so limited that it wasn't worth the effort to try. Even if they could maintain a power supply, it could still freeze or sink.
Ah, nuclear-powered Huygens, instead of batteries...

The main problems would be weight and the proximity of the RTG(s) to the science instruments. The compact design of Huygens meant that nuclear power was not an option.
WOuldn't be interesting if it was designed to use TItan's methan lakes to produce energy? :D 8-[

Reverend J
2005-Jan-14, 03:16 PM
From Space.com


10:15 a.m. EST: Huygens is still pounding out a signal to the surprise of ESA engineers, but any science data it is currently transmitting is falling on deaf ears.

The Cassini orbiter, Huygens' only connection to Earth, has turned away from the probe and is preparing to relay the probe's data home, mission controllers said.

“The probe has been living for more than five hours,” said Huygens mission manager Jean-Pierre Lebreton. “But we knew at a certain time Cassini would have to stop recording.”



That's one tough probe! Too bad we couldn't get all the data (though a bet after a while it's a bit redundant)

McDugan
2005-Jan-14, 03:20 PM
That's one tough probe! Too bad we couldn't get all the data (though a bet after a while it's a bit redundant)

It would be a very very long while.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:21 PM
Great observations by Carolyn Porco =D> re Jules Verne, and going out tonight and looking at Saturn and thinking "We've made our mark there!"

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 03:26 PM
First data from Cassini!

EFossa
2005-Jan-14, 03:28 PM
First data from Cassini!

What kind of data? :o lol

Timm
2005-Jan-14, 03:29 PM
Welches Jahr war das?

1996 - In Frontier Elite 2 the Bernard's Star - Sol route was good for trade. :D

Nice to see that Huygens survived so long out there. Titan is somehow a lot more interesting than Mars - I'm really excited to see some pictures.

tofu
2005-Jan-14, 03:29 PM
WOuldn't be interesting if it was designed to use TItan's methan lakes to produce energy? :D 8-[

Wouldn't it have to take oxygen along to make use of the methane?


CNN says they're hoping to have some pictures by 2:00 p.m. EST. Fingers crossed!

What's the over/under on how long we'll have to wait after that until we see our first woowoo, alien pyramid, alien fossil, alien technology, etc. theory.

Incidentally, the reason the ESA doesn't immediately release raw data is that it undercuts the scientists who have worked so hard to make the project successful. By all rights, they should have the first look at the data and the chance to make some important discoveries. How would you feel if you had invested 10 years of your life on a project, and when the first data from that project finally came back there was something of obvious, earth shattering importance in frame 107, but while you were still looking at frame 10 some joe, shmoe on the internet had already scanned through and found 107. You had done all the work, but you'd get none of the credit. That would suck.

I think that the reason NASA releases raw data immediately on receiving it is that they (NASA) are overly sensitive to the idiots who scream, "WHAT ARE THEY HIDING FROM US???11??? NASA NOES THE TRUTH!!!!111oneone!!!!"

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:30 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if ToSeek has cast eyes on Anne-Marie Schipper of ALCATEL SPACE? :D

pumpkinpie
2005-Jan-14, 03:31 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if ToSeek has cast eyes on Anne-Marie Schipper of ALCATEL SPACE? :D
I was just watching the coverage with two male colleagues, and when she came on, they said, "Whoa!" :D

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:31 PM
NOW...per ESA, 40 minutes of suspense, and then we'll see!

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 03:32 PM
First data from Cassini!

What kind of data? :o lol

1's and 0's, mostly. ;)

01101001
2005-Jan-14, 03:32 PM
First data from Cassini!

What kind of data? :o lol

Not Huygens data. Still 40 minutes to go. It mainly says Cassini is doing its thing as expected.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 03:33 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if ToSeek has cast eyes on Anne-Marie Schipper of ALCATEL SPACE? :D

Which one was that? So far I've seen a blonde on the control room floor with wavy hair and a cute woman with short hair who was in charge of the art contest. Both were easy on the eyes. ;)

kucharek
2005-Jan-14, 03:34 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if ToSeek has cast eyes on Anne-Marie Schipper of ALCATEL SPACE? :D
I was just watching the coverage with two male colleagues, and when she came on, they said, "Whoa!" :D
Was this that blonde in the main control room?
Make some points with your colleagues: anne-marie.schipper@space.alcatel.fr :D

Manchurian Taikonaut
2005-Jan-14, 03:39 PM
Facts we know:

Huyges decendet to the surface.
Huygens landed in one piece
Huygens continued to send his signal for at least 1 1/2 hours.
Everything else has to show.

:P great mission =D>

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 03:50 PM
WOuldn't be interesting if it was designed to use TItan's methan lakes to produce energy? :D 8-[

Wouldn't it have to take oxygen along to make use of the methane?


CNN says they're hoping to have some pictures by 2:00 p.m. EST. Fingers crossed!

What's the over/under on how long we'll have to wait after that until we see our first woowoo, alien pyramid, alien fossil, alien technology, etc. theory.[edit]
Here you go:


British bookies Ladbrokes had set starting odds of 10,000/1 that the mission would find intelligent life on Titan. (http://www.felixonline.co.uk/2002-04/article.php?aid=2108)

SkyeLab
2005-Jan-14, 03:52 PM
From spaceflightnow.com :

FRIDAY, JANUARY 14, 2005
1530 GMT (10:30 a.m. EST)

"Scientists have another 40 minutes of suspense before the first Huygens data arrives on Earth, which will confirm probe's transmissions to Cassini and recording aboard the orbiter has worked. "

So 20 minutes to go......................!!

SarahMc
2005-Jan-14, 03:55 PM
I can't stand these waiting periods. I can just imagine how hard it is on everyone that's closely involved with the mission on a daily basis.

Wally
2005-Jan-14, 03:59 PM
If we were able to detect the carrier signal from Huygen here on Earth, why couldn't we receive the data directly rather than having to relay it thru the orbiter?

(I'm sure I could search the net for the answer to this, but I know you guys are just sitting there twittling your thumbs while waiting for the data anyways! :) )

diddidit
2005-Jan-14, 04:02 PM
If we were able to detect the carrier signal from Huygen here on Earth, why couldn't we receive the data directly rather than having to relay it thru the orbiter?

(I'm sure I could search the net for the answer to this, but I know you guys are just sitting there twittling your thumbs while waiting for the data anyways! :) )

Cassini will receive a signal something like 400 million times stronger. It can record the data and replay it to us several times. If it was a one-shot deal from Huygens to Earth, we'd have only one chance to get data out of a weak, weak signal.

I bet it'll be done in the future, though.

did

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 04:02 PM
If we were able to detect the carrier signal from Huygen here on Earth, why couldn't we receive the data directly rather than having to relay it thru the orbiter?

(I'm sure I could search the net for the answer to this, but I know you guys are just sitting there twittling your thumbs while waiting for the data anyways! :) )

There's a big difference between recognizing the existence of a radio signal and being able to get data from it. Compare it to the difference between being able to tell that there is someone in the next room talking and being able to make out exactly what they're saying.

badprof
2005-Jan-14, 04:03 PM
Maksutov wrote:
Hmmm, I wonder if ToSeek has cast eyes on Anne-Marie Schipper of ALCATEL SPACE?

I was just watching the coverage with two male colleagues, and when she came on, they said, "Whoa!"

Actually I thought that Jessica from the launch of Deep Impact was better! :D

Maurice

McDugan
2005-Jan-14, 04:07 PM
British bookies Ladbrokes had set starting odds of 10,000/1 that the mission would find intelligent life on Titan. (http://www.felixonline.co.uk/2002-04/article.php?aid=2108)


I'd be mad if I put money down and they ended up finding space monkeys but the bookies didn't consider them "intelligent".

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:10 PM
Maksutov wrote:
Hmmm, I wonder if ToSeek has cast eyes on Anne-Marie Schipper of ALCATEL SPACE?

I was just watching the coverage with two male colleagues, and when she came on, they said, "Whoa!"

Actually I thought that Jessica from the launch of Deep Impact was better! :D

Maurice
Jessica was a treat too! They're all fine in my eyes!

Must admit I have a weakness for intelligent, good-looking women... :oops:

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:11 PM
It's about that time!

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-14, 04:14 PM
This is very exciting! Congratulations, everyone. =D> =D> =D>

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:16 PM
1514 UTC (10:14 am EST) - First data sent to Earth

Cassini first turns its high-gain antenna to point towards Earth and then sends the first packet of data.

Which means we should have reports of the first data momentarily.

badprof
2005-Jan-14, 04:17 PM
Certainly a big group clustering around the monitors at the control centre! I can just imagine how they are feeling as they count down the seconds!! It is bad enough sitting here. Just as well classes do not start for another week!!!! :)

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 04:18 PM
1514 UTC (10:14 am EST) - First data sent to Earth

Cassini first turns its high-gain antenna to point towards Earth and then sends the first packet of data.

Which means we should have reports of the first data momentarily.

We already have, but it's not Huygens data yet.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 04:20 PM
They just started celebrating something - no indication what.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:20 PM
1514 UTC (10:14 am EST) - First data sent to Earth

Cassini first turns its high-gain antenna to point towards Earth and then sends the first packet of data.

Which means we should have reports of the first data momentarily.
Correction:


Which means we should have reports of the first Huygens data momentarily.

badprof
2005-Jan-14, 04:20 PM
11:19 EST

Big cheer and clapping! Does this mean that they are getting data??!!??

ToSeek
2005-Jan-14, 04:22 PM
The Huygens data is being received! Applause has erupted in the German control room after the tense and anxious wait. It will take some time to begin examining the information. The first pictures from Huygens could be released later today showing Titan's surface.

- Spaceflight Now

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:22 PM
Can anyone translate this language: Crowd Chatter?

Someone in the background said "we have good telemetry."

jt-3d
2005-Jan-14, 04:24 PM
Can anyone translate this language: Crowd Chatter?

Someone in the background said "we have good telemetry."

French crowd chatter at that.

Drakheim
2005-Jan-14, 04:24 PM
Can anyone translate this language: Crowd Chatter?

Someone in the background said "we have good telemetry."

The only thing I can really make out is from one of the people speaking french.

** wishes he actually studied the language when he was in highshcool now. ** :evil:

EFossa
2005-Jan-14, 04:26 PM
David Southwood ESA Director just had a big smile on his face :D

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:29 PM
Can anyone translate this language: Crowd Chatter?

Someone in the background said "we have good telemetry."

French crowd chatter at that.
Someone's cell phone just rang in the background. Could have sworn the message was, "Pain, lait, farine et oeufs." Must be a shopping list.

Eroica
2005-Jan-14, 04:30 PM
Media briefing imminent, it seems.

Maksutov
2005-Jan-14, 04:30 PM
Announcer's speaking German, "Ladies and gentlemen, please get back and make some room."

badprof
2005-Jan-14, 04:31 PM
Looks like they are about to have some sort of announcement. Calling for people to be seated.

jt-3d
2005-Jan-14, 04:31 PM
I guess those camera dudes never heard of zoom lenses.

jamester
2005-Jan-14, 04:32 PM
Someone's cell phone just rang in the background. Could have sworn the message was, "Pain, lait, farine et oeufs." Must be a shopping list.
"Honey, not right now... I'm at work. No, it is important right now, we're just about to get data from- Stop that, I do love you, you know that. Look honey, I gotta go... no, I gotta.... argh *click*"

badprof
2005-Jan-14, 04:34 PM
All smiles.... thumbs up!

jumpjack
2005-Jan-14, 04:34 PM
For people "just tuned" on this topic :) :

Almost-real-time Huygens mission reports:
Space.com (http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/huygens_descent_comm_050114.html)
Spaceflight.com (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/cassini/status.html)

jt-3d
2005-Jan-14, 04:35 PM
But NASA TV is better IMO. http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

badprof
2005-Jan-14, 04:37 PM
ESA director.... This morning we had an engeering success.... this afternoon we have a scientific success. :D

Received data for more than 2 hours after touchdown.