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selvaarchi
2014-May-31, 12:10 PM
China and Russia just announced discussions to work on joint projects to Mars and Venus. Coming close on the heels is a joint workshop with UK on Space.

https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/uk-and-chinas-biggest-yet-joint-workshop-on-space-science-and-technology


Nearly 200 participants from British and Chinese universities, business and government organisations will come together over the next three days to explore future co-operation on space science and technology.

The event follows the signing of an MOU in December 2013 between the UK and Chinese national space agencies on the exploration and use of outer space. This is the ninth in a series of annual workshops organised by Beijing’s Beihang University and the UK’s Rutherford Appleton Laboratory (RAL) – both parties to the Secretariat of the UK-China Virtual Joint Space Laboratory. This year’s event, arranged with the assistance of the Shanghai Academy of Space Technology, will be the biggest yet: a reflection of the warm relationship between the two countries’ space authorities and the growing volume of research and commercial collaborations.

Garrison
2014-May-31, 04:46 PM
China and Russia just announced discussions to work on joint projects to Mars and Venus. Coming close on the heels is a joint workshop with UK on Space.

https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/uk-and-chinas-biggest-yet-joint-workshop-on-space-science-and-technology

So having already flogged this to death you decided to give it a thread of its own? As has been pointed out this Sino-Russian co=operation is little more than vague aspirations at the moment and the forums in the UK are basically a long established talking shop to drum up business for UK companies who have technologies for spaceflight the Chinese can't reproduce easily.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jun-02, 12:22 PM
China and Russia just announced discussions to work on joint projects to Mars and Venus. Coming close on the heels is a joint workshop with UK on Space.
So they discussed. What is coming from it?
What's an MOU?


China is making headway with coperation with other countries excluding US.
You are constantly trying to rip the cooperation of the U.S. It is simply not true.
The U.S. has been in talks (http://aviationweek.com/space/nasa-china-meet-possible-cooperation) in the same way that UK is.

I feel that one of your issues is the US lack of willingness to participate with the ISS.

It's true that they will not be invited to the ISS, but that is a decades old project, closer to its end than to it's beginning of usefullness.
Any new treaties for cooperation can get very complicated. I'm not talking about world politics, just that the operation, equipment and responsibilities of the various nations have been worked out in a delicate balance. Plus, how long would it take for development and testing of any kind of module to the ISS? It took 2 years from Dragon to docking, and that's just a craft. It's not a component that the station would have to be designed to support or interface with.
The ISS is a special case that can not be an example of space politics. Cooperation usually relies on new projects.

selvaarchi
2014-Jun-02, 01:12 PM
So they discussed. What is coming from it?
What's an MOU?


You are constantly trying to rip the cooperation of the U.S. It is simply not true.
The U.S. has been in talks (http://aviationweek.com/space/nasa-china-meet-possible-cooperation) in the same way that UK is.

I feel that one of your issues is the US lack of willingness to participate with the ISS.

It's true that they will not be invited to the ISS, but that is a decades old project, closer to its end than to it's beginning of usefullness.
Any new treaties for cooperation can get very complicated. I'm not talking about world politics, just that the operation, equipment and responsibilities of the various nations have been worked out in a delicate balance. Plus, how long would it take for development and testing of any kind of module to the ISS? It took 2 years from Dragon to docking, and that's just a craft. It's not a component that the station would have to be designed to support or interface with.
The ISS is a special case that can not be an example of space politics. Cooperation usually relies on new projects.

It is not that I am trying to "rip the cooperation", if fact I want greater cooperation. The only way we can move forward in space with any decent speed is with cooperation.

I know there has been cooperation in the past between the US and China. But now there is "the U.S. law that forbids cooperation in space between the two countries" as stated in the article you pointed to. From what I have read the other partners were keen to have China join the ISS project but has been vetoed by the US. That is why China is building it's own space station.

As for new projects there are many for BEO like 1) space stations in BEO 2) moon landings including bases 3) Mars and the list can go on. As long as the US law is in place it can not happen with both the US and China in the same project.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jun-02, 02:13 PM
It is not that I am trying to "rip the cooperation", if fact I want greater cooperation.
Saying you want more means that you are saying we don't cooperate enough.


The only way we can move forward in space with any decent speed is with cooperation.
Like in the 60s? OK, bad example. Nowadays it's money, not politics.


I know there has been cooperation in the past between the US and China. But now there is "the U.S. law that forbids cooperation in space between the two countries" as stated in the article you pointed to.
Somehow I read right past that statement. I retract part of my emotion here. It's hard to seperate NASA and Goverment sometimes. In this case the intention of cooperation is there, and the willingness do do it by finding avenues that the law doesn't stop.


From what I have read the other partners were keen to have China join the ISS project but has been vetoed by the US. That is why China is building it's own space station.
But the other issues are just as big, if not bigger than the politics.


As long as the US law is in place it can not happen with both the US and China in the same project.
Are you saying the US nor China can not do any of those things independently?

selvaarchi
2014-Jun-02, 02:35 PM
Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher Are you saying the US nor China can not do any of those things independently?

They can but I would like to see them cooperate and quicken the process.

NEOWatcher
2014-Jun-02, 02:55 PM
It sure would spread out the risk and cost, but I'm not sure if that would help with the timeline. It depends on what items are on the critical path. That's how it ended up with the ISS. It wasn't built any faster than the plans when it was the US alone. (of course planned timelines and actuals don't always match either)

selvaarchi
2014-Jun-05, 02:10 AM
Looks like congress has been requested to relook at the ban on space cooperation with China. Report was published in a Chinese paper but it is supposed to by the U.S. National Research Council (NRC) and mandated by congress. The report also concludes if the US is serious of a human Mars mission in the 2030s then NASA's budget has to have a 5 percent increase per year from now.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2014-06/05/c_133384132.htm


The U.S. government needs to reexamine its space policy that blocks its space agency NASA from working on bilateral projects with China, a 286-page report mandated by U.S. Congress said Wednesday.

"This policy, while driven by congressional sentiment, denies the U.S. partnership with a nation that will probably be capable of making truly significant contributions to international collaborative missions," said the report from the U.S. National Research Council (NRC).

"It may be time to reexamine whether this policy serves the long-term interests of the United States," according to the report titled "Pathways to Exploration: Rationales and Approaches for a U. S. Program of Human Space Exploration."


Here is The Washington Post on the same report

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/nrc-human-spaceflight-report-says-nasa-strategy-cant-get-humans-to-mars/2014/06/04/e6e6060c-ebd6-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html?tid=hpModule_ba0d4c2a-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z10


A sweeping review of NASA’s human spaceflight program has concluded that the agency has an unsustainable and unsafe strategy that will prevent the United States from achieving a human landing on Mars in the foreseeable future.

The 286-page National Research Council report, the culmination of an 18-month, $3.2 million investigation mandated by Congress, says that to continue on the present course under budgets that don’t keep pace with inflation “is to invite failure, disillusionment, and the loss of the longstanding international perception that human spaceflight is something the United States does best.”

publiusr
2014-Jun-07, 04:43 PM
We just don't spend enough on space--and it has us sniping at each others programs. One thing to learn is not to rely too much on anyone else--we see that with Soyuz and the current political crisis.

This is why I want NASA to do as much in house as possible. Russia, ULA, Space X--all these can help. But independent capability should be pushed for. One cannot help but think that cooperation leads one to do less individually.

Launch window
2014-Jun-08, 11:30 AM
Mars or bust, says new report on NASA human space exploration, LA Times
latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80405861/
"But the report said that if the U.S. is to take its space program to the next level, it will require more funds for the step-by-step missions that will lead to the Martian surface. It will also require, the authors said, more international cooperation -- including with China. Current federal law blocks NASA from working on bilateral projects with the Chinese."

docmordrid
2014-Jun-12, 04:57 PM
We are supposed to ignore their rampant intellectual property theft, state-sponsored industrial espionage, currency manipulations etc.?

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

NEOWatcher
2014-Jun-12, 05:10 PM
Mars or bust, says new report on NASA human space exploration, LA Times
latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80405861/
I cant find that story from your link, for some reason I get a huge page of tons of stuff without NASA being mentioned.
But; That sounds like the Bloomberg report we talked about in the Ukraine CCtCap thread (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?149737-Ukraine-and-CCtCap&p=2217740#post2217740) last week.

PetersCreek
2014-Jun-12, 05:42 PM
We are supposed to ignore their rampant intellectual property theft, state-sponsored industrial espionage, currency manipulations etc.?

This is outside the scope of political discussion allowed by our rules. No more please.

LoneTree1941
2014-Jun-14, 02:46 AM
So they discussed. What is coming from it?
What's an MOU?
having briefly looked through the posts I don't see an answer to your question. An MOU is a Memorandum Of Understanding

NEOWatcher
2014-Jun-16, 01:16 PM
An MOU is a Memorandum Of Understanding
Thank you. Apparently Selvaarchi doesn't know either.


having briefly looked through the posts I don't see an answer to your question
Now that the conference is over, I decided to see if I could find anything... Nothing.

If everyone can excuse my ramblings for a moment, I'd like to interject some of my own inferrences.

Since this has been going on for 5 years, and is not the first conference, I wondered why this MOU was necessary. After doing some searchnig, it looks like the political situation between them has been shaky, and larger efforts to ease that were made at the time of the MOU.

From what I can infer from the many articles I've seen about the political issues, China has the upper hand in the political relationship while the UK is relying on a large export market to them. Sol this might be a sign of further space cooperation, but sounds like it might be token gestures right now.

Another item they had on the agenda was the climate. This might also be a major point that UK wants to discuss along with many other major powers in the world. Of course, any climate research and mitigation requires space assets for measuring and monitoring. This further makes me suspect that the topic is limitted.

selvaarchi
2014-Jun-21, 02:59 PM
One outcome of the law passed by congress was US scientists boycotting a NASA conference. A British journalist won best news story award from Association of British Science Writers writing on it. Because of the backlash NASA in the end relented and allowed some Chinese to attend.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jun/18/guardian-science-editor-ian-sample-wins-award-second-year


He won for his story "US scientists boycott Nasa conference over China ban", in which he broke the news of a backlash from researchers against the US space agency over its decision to exclude Chinese scientists – even those at US institutions.

selvaarchi
2014-Jun-30, 12:06 PM
More contacts between China and Russia. I get the impression the Russians are keen to do joint projects with the Chinese associated with the moon and Mars.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140630/190759072/Russia-China-Ready-to-Cooperate-in-Space-Explore-Mars.html


Russia is ready to work with China to explore the Moon and Mars, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Monday.

“If we talk about manned space flights and exploration of outer space, as well as joint exploration of the solar system, primarily it is the Moon and Mars, we are ready to go forth with our Chinese friends, hand in hand,” Rogozin said during a roundtable held within the framework of The First Russia-China Expo.

selvaarchi
2014-Jul-05, 05:55 AM
China and India are helping the UN to strengthening drought monitoring and early warning in the Asia Pacific region using their satellites.

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/radio/program/asia-pacific/chinese-and-indian-space-satellites-help-regions-drought-forecasting/1337940


SIRIMANNE: We have brought the space faring countries of this region to help the others in drought monitoring and early warnings.

And what we have done here is we have two countries, we call them the service nodes, the China and India, the space agents of China and India, to provide satellite data and to develop this data into products, then to train the countries which are involved in the drought mechanism. To read this data, make some sense of this data and at the end of the day, use this data to strengthen the early warnings for drought in Asia and the Pacific.

selvaarchi
2014-Jul-08, 01:35 PM
China and France have confirmed a joint venture in radar ocean-surface research, approving the final construction of a satellite carrying instruments from both nations to be launched in 2018.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/40020france-china-set-sail-on-joint-ocean-surface-satellite-project

The China-French Oceanic Satellite, CFOSat, will carry the French Surface Waves Investigation and Monitoring, or SWIM, instrument, a wave-scatterometer spectrometer that has been under development for several years at the French space agency, CNES.

The China National Space Administration, in addition to providing the CFOSat platform and a launch of the 700-kilogram satellite on a Chinese Long March rocket, will build the SCAT wind-measurement scatterometer.

selvaarchi
2014-Jul-15, 02:18 AM
The Washington Post ran the following article in it's Sunday edition "Moonwalker Buzz Aldrin says U.S. taking giant leap backward". He wants 'the U.S. to coordinate further international lunar missions, such as sending construction equipment to help other nations build laboratories on the surface. Likewise, the U.S. could develop standards of construction so that all the labs, modules and units could be linked together easily — no matter what nation built them." He says " the U.S. and China should attempt to cooperate for human space exploration. Indeed, 2020 will be the 45th anniversary of the Apollo-Soyuz mission, when U.S. and Soviet spacecraft docked together in orbit — a symbolic time for the U.S. and China to perform a similar feat, he said."

I like the idea of the US setting standards and taking on the task of transporting the construction equipment. With one stroke, he finds a purpose for the SLS and is unlikely to find resistance from other countries. The US is the only country with that carrying capability currently.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/13/astronaut-buzz-aldrin-presses-need-for-space-explo/?page=all#pagebreak


Forty-five years after man first landed on the moon, one of the men who was there is worried that the U.S. has become lost in space.

With the anniversary Sunday of Apollo 11’s giant leap for mankind, Buzz Aldrin sees a moribund American space program without a major task to conquer while a geopolitical rival is going full steam ahead, reminding him of the Soviet launch of the first man-made satellite in 1957. Only the U.S. isn’t reacting now as it did then.

“We’re in the worst position we’ve ever been in,” he told The Washington Times. “We’re in worse competitive shape than after Sputnik.”

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-15, 12:08 PM
“We’re in the worst position we’ve ever been in,” he told The Washington Times. “We’re in worse competitive shape than after Sputnik.”
I'd like him to explain that comment.
We have BEO manned craft being constructed, we have commercial LEO craft being constructed, we have landed on moon and mars, we have probes past the planets and going to other planets. We have the space station for another 10 years. We have commercial entities striving for their own station.
Other nations only have plans and aspirations about such things. They are rising fast, but we don't know yet if can they sustain that growth.
Our budget is already much bigger than any nation in the world. (if it's possible to compare different governmental spending protocols).
What's bad about that?

I agree with him that there are a lot of things we could be doing, but I think this is more lobbying for funding more than it is a realistic plan.

selvaarchi
2014-Jul-18, 03:28 PM
China seems to intensify its efforts to forge more cooperation with other nations. Two examples below.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-07/18/c_133492063.htm


The satellite, which is said to be equipped with more modern cameras to observe the Earth, will be used to capture images so as to monitor the environment efficiently and to better manage agricultural resources for Brazil. The space cooperation program is considered as part of the Brazilian government's efforts to reduce its independence on U.S. and European space equipment.

China and Brazil have also agreed to cooperate in building the CBERS-5 satellite, which is expected to be launched in 2017.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/china-europe-in-talks-on-space-cooperation-1405592579?mod=_newsreel_5

:( could get in the 1st time and now they want money. If anyone has excess to the full interview, please post it here.

Senior Chinese and European space officials have been discussing potentially wide-ranging cooperation on manned exploration programs, a prospect that threatens to further complicate the future of the international space station.

Jean-Jacques Dordain, director-general of the European Space Agency, said in an interview that the two sides have talked about the issue of extensive in-orbit cooperation in some detail, without coming to any resolution. His comments, made during an international air show...

NEOWatcher
2014-Jul-18, 04:58 PM
Build it and they will come.

I don't know if it's really an effort by China to cooperate as it is China's ability has progressed to the point where others are interested in contracting with them and their services.

We all know that US and European products are more expensive than Chinese to begin with. (of course, that's just a generalization)

selvaarchi
2014-Jul-23, 01:08 AM
A Netherlands space company has delivered equipment to China.

http://www.antwerpspace.be/news/antwerp-space-successfully-delivers-2-omnisat-in-china

Antwerp Space NV, a subsidiary of OHB AG (ISIN: DE0005936124, Prime Standard) successfully delivered 2 Omnisat equipments to two institutional customers in China.
The equipment will be used for checking out of high speed satellite transmitters and in ground stations for the reception of earth observation data. The Omnisat of Antwerp Space has won the international tender because of its unique capability to deliver up to 3 independent high speed satellite receivers in a single chassis at any given intermediate frequency. This allowed the customers to have a very flexible receiver, at a competitive price.

galacsi
2014-Jul-23, 09:40 AM
A Netherlands space company has delivered equipment to China.

http://www.antwerpspace.be/news/antwerp-space-successfully-delivers-2-omnisat-in-china

Antwerp Space NV, a subsidiary of OHB AG (ISIN: DE0005936124, Prime Standard) successfully delivered 2 Omnisat equipments to two institutional customers in China.
The equipment will be used for checking out of high speed satellite transmitters and in ground stations for the reception of earth observation data. The Omnisat of Antwerp Space has won the international tender because of its unique capability to deliver up to 3 independent high speed satellite receivers in a single chassis at any given intermediate frequency. This allowed the customers to have a very flexible receiver, at a competitive price.

Just for A little nitpick : this is a company from Belgium and not from the Netherland. Une fois !

selvaarchi
2014-Jul-23, 09:42 AM
Just for A little nitpick : this is a company from Belgium and not from the Netherland. Une fois !
Sorry, explains why I never excelled in geography :p

selvaarchi
2014-Aug-05, 04:15 AM
China's quest to do more joint projects with Europe is paying dividends.

http://spacenews.com/article/civil-space/41479china-france-join-forces-on-astronomy-mission


The French and Chinese space agencies have agreed to jointly develop a gamma-ray-burst astronomy satellite to be launched in 2021 aboard a Chinese Long March rocket, the French space agency, CNES, said Aug. 4.

The satellite, called SVOM, or Space-based multiband astronomical Variable Objects Monitor, will carry four instruments, with CNES and the China National Space Administration (CNSA) responsible for two each. Overall mission management will be led by CNSA.

The agreement, signed Aug. 2 in Beijing by CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall and CNSA Administrator Xu Dazhe, is the first concrete result of a broad space-cooperation accord signed in March following a summit in Paris of the Chinese and French heads of state. The accord specifically referenced astrophysics and oceanography as areas of future cooperation.

selvaarchi
2014-Aug-07, 02:32 PM
The action of the west against Russia has opened major opportunities for China.

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140806/191767747/Western-Sanctions-See-Russia-Looking-to-China-for-Military.html

" he newspaper also noted that the Russian aerospace and military industries do not use components produced in China at the moment.
“Over the next two, two-and-a-half years, until Russian manufacturers put the necessary space and military electronic components into production, plans call for the purchase of such items from China amounting to several billion dollars” Izvestia reported, quoting a source, close to Roscosmos.
Citing the source, the newspaper added that that 18 representatives of 12 CASIC institutions engaged in the development and production of electronic components will visit Moscow to take part in a special workshop for Russian manufacturers in August. A parallel workshop will be held in St. Petersburg."

selvaarchi
2014-Aug-13, 08:06 AM
Another American voice calls for cooperation with China.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimclash/2014/08/11/u-s-astronaut-leroy-chiao-america-should-embrace-china-for-mars-missions/


JC: Should America get China involved with ISS and sending humans to Mars?

LC: China is the only entity other than Russia that can launch astronauts into space now. I’ve been an advocate for years of bringing China into the ISS program just so we have another way of getting crew and cargo there in case of a problem with Russia’s spacecraft. Even the Russians want that because they’re the single string now – if something goes wrong, even they are not going to be able to get to the station. China has technical capability, but they do not have the operational experience that Russia or we have – that’s why they would be interested in partnering. For them it’s also validation – a seal of approval if you will that NASA will work with them. From our standpoint, China would be a very different partner than Russia. Russia is a good partner, but they have had financial challenges and, by and large, we have been funding their part of ISS for a while. China has a budget and can build their own modules, contribute hardware and time. The technology is good – I’ve seen it. It makes sense to partner with them now for ISS, then eventually for going back to the moon and on to Mars. I think it would help relations between our countries.

NEOWatcher
2014-Aug-13, 11:47 AM
Another American voice calls for cooperation with China.
Considering he is the son of Chinese immigrants, I'm not surprised.

FarmMarsNow
2014-Aug-13, 05:09 PM
Language is the real obstacle here among the three most space faring countries. Students are going to hate me for saying this, but young people in USA are lacking in languages. An investment in language is an investment in all the sciences.

NEOWatcher
2014-Aug-13, 05:21 PM
Students are going to hate me for saying this, but young people in USA are lacking in languages. An investment in language is an investment in all the sciences.
I have no issue with saying that, but...

Language is the real obstacle here among the three most space faring countries.
... there's a lot of political issues between the 3. Yes; language can be an obstacle (or even different measuring systems), but I don't think this is the case with China. And; after years of cooperating with Russia, look at where things are going.

FarmMarsNow
2014-Aug-13, 08:49 PM
I agree that there are serious political issues.

Van Rijn
2014-Aug-14, 12:42 PM
There's a huge, known issue with Chinese aerospace espionage, so I don't see that going anywhere for some time. Russia was much more equal on rocketry technology and in-space experience and they shared some of their technology as well - much more of a two way street than China would be.

NEOWatcher
2014-Aug-15, 12:14 PM
Does last night's launch of a Hong Kong satellite by a U.S. company count?

docmordrid
2014-Aug-16, 06:07 AM
Why should that matter?

Noclevername
2014-Aug-16, 06:16 AM
Does last night's launch of a Hong Kong satellite by a U.S. company count?

Unless it's a company owned by the US government, I don't think it is an exception to the "exclusion".

NEOWatcher
2014-Aug-18, 11:51 AM
Unless it's a company owned by the US government, I don't think it is an exception to the "exclusion".
I was saying it as somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
While goverments are doing the "big" projects. I think it shows that commercial space cooperation is truly international.

selvaarchi
2014-Aug-19, 05:45 AM
China puts Polish satellite BRITE-PL-2, also known as “Heweliusz” into orbit.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/08/chinese-long-march-4b-gaofen-2-brite-pl-2/


The BRITE-Poland satellites:

The first scientific satellites to explore the stars that are brighter and hotter than the Sun were developed in Poland during between 2010 and 2012. The project will will be helpful in understanding the internal structure of the biggest stars in our galaxy.

Star oscillation will be investigated with the help of BRITE satellite constellations, designed within the Bright Target Explorer (BRITE) project and developed as the Canadian-Austrian-Polish cooperation.

NEOWatcher
2014-Aug-19, 11:50 AM
A multinational group buys 10kg of space on a mission. That sounds more like selling a service than government cooperation.
If that's government cooperation, then my Hong Kong satellite comment isn't too far off.

selvaarchi
2014-Aug-19, 02:14 PM
A multinational group buys 10kg of space on a mission. That sounds more like selling a service than government cooperation.
If that's government cooperation, then my Hong Kong satellite comment isn't too far off.

True but An American company can not advantage of the sort of rates the Chinese are offering.

NEOWatcher
2014-Aug-19, 03:02 PM
True but An American company can not advantage of the sort of rates the Chinese are offering.
What is your cost comparison?
What is a LM4 cost per kg? What are other companies cost per kg?
What international trade agreements and governmental monetary systems affect this?

selvaarchi
2014-Aug-19, 10:32 PM
What is your cost comparison?
What is a LM4 cost per kg? What are other companies cost per kg?
What international trade agreements and governmental monetary systems affect this?

There is an American embargo on American companies from using Chinese launch facilities. - They used too until one of the launches failed. In the subsequent investigation into the launch failure (in which the American company participated) the US government thought, US technology was being transferred to the Chinese. The reason for the embargo.

Van Rijn
2014-Aug-20, 12:34 AM
Unless it's a company owned by the US government, I don't think it is an exception to the "exclusion".

There are a lot of restrictions on U.S. aerospace companies for ITAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations) compliance, especially in regards to rocket and satellite technology. I don't know the details, but there are rules on who can be hired, who rockets (or related equipment) can be sold to, etc.

Incidentally, I'm just saying this as a general statement on the subject . . . I'm not going to make any value judgments here about the espionage, or comparisons to U.S. espionage, etc. but there isn't much doubt that U.S. aerospace firms have been a key target for Chinese espionage for some time. Sometimes some stupid things are done (like closing down access to a NASA website with articles we've referenced here in regards to Apollo/Apollo Hoax stuff many years after it was opened to public access), but there's a real issue here.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-07, 01:14 PM
China is upping it's desire to have international cooperation by organizing an international conference with the Association of Space Explorers (ASE), an international nonprofit organization of over 395 astronauts and cosmonauts from 35 nations. Current NASA astronauts are expected to attend but as private individuals.

http://www.space.com/27034-astronauts-visit-china-space-cooperation.html


The conference's theme is "Cooperation: To Realize Humanity's Space Dream Together," and will take place from Sept. 10 to 15 in Beijing. The goal, according to congress organizers, is to encourage an open discussion about international cooperation in the future development and planning of human spaceflight.

Garrison
2014-Sep-07, 04:43 PM
China is upping it's desire to have international cooperation by organizing an international conference with the Association of Space Explorers (ASE), an international nonprofit organization of over 395 astronauts and cosmonauts from 35 nations. Current NASA astronauts are expected to attend but as private individuals.

http://www.space.com/27034-astronauts-visit-china-space-cooperation.html

So they are holding a talking shop with no foreign governments attending, what is this supposed to demonstrate exactly?

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-07, 09:24 PM
So they are holding a talking shop with no foreign governments attending, what is this supposed to demonstrate exactly?
The fact that key players in space exploration are talking shop in China is a major achievement by the Chinese government.

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-08, 01:34 PM
The fact that key players in space exploration are talking shop in China is a major achievement by the Chinese government.
According to your previous posts, they have already been talking shop with representatives from other nations.

Did you lookup what this association (http://www.space-explorers.org/index.html) is?
It's an educational organization and not a lobbying organization. It doesn't mean much to the world of cooperation in space. It means a lot to promoting space in general.
They do urge cooperation in NEO research, but that's about the extent of their reach into cooperation.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-08, 01:56 PM
According to your previous posts, they have already been talking shop with representatives from other nations.

Did you lookup what this association (http://www.space-explorers.org/index.html) is?
It's an educational organization and not a lobbying organization. It doesn't mean much to the world of cooperation in space. It means a lot to promoting space in general.
They do urge cooperation in NEO research, but that's about the extent of their reach into cooperation.
I do realise that but remember that lobbying takes many forms. The people present at the conference are key players in their respective countries. China will be demonstrating their capabilities and also future plans and indicating areas of cooperation.

Garrison
2014-Sep-08, 11:47 PM
The fact that key players in space exploration are talking shop in China is a major achievement by the Chinese government.

please identify these key players as all you have mentioned are an NGO and various private individuals who will not be representing their governments.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-09, 01:03 AM
please identify these key players as all you have mentioned are an NGO and various private individuals who will not be representing their governments.

By key players, I am referring to active astronauts.

Garrison
2014-Sep-09, 10:44 PM
By key players, I am referring to active astronauts.

Who it is emphasized are not representing their agencies, so again please; what key players? For that matter what makes you think astronauts are key players in deciding their agencies/governments policy towards China's space program?

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-10, 01:45 AM
Who it is emphasized are not representing their agencies, so again please; what key players? For that matter what makes you think astronauts are key players in deciding their agencies/governments policy towards China's space program?

In your definition they might not be but I see them to be largely highly qualified individuals whose views do carry weight.

Garrison
2014-Sep-10, 08:42 PM
In your definition they might not be but I see them to be largely highly qualified individuals whose views do carry weight.

So in short yet again you have nothing but your rose tinted view of the Chinese space program?

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-11, 07:54 AM
China in cooperation with other countries in manned space program

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2014-09/10/c_133633557.htm


China cooperates with Russia and Europe in its manned space program, with future plans for possible coordinated space module dockings, the country's first astronaut said Wednesday.

Yang Liwei, deputy chief of China's Manned Space Agency, said at a press conference at the annual meeting of the Association of Space Exploration (ASE) that China has hosted many astronaut exchanges with the United States, Russia and Europe.

In the past few years, a training exchange was conducted between the China Astronaut Center and European Astronaut Center.

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-11, 12:57 PM
China in cooperation with other countries in manned space program
A little bit of research and information exchange.
Not one bit of hardware cooperation.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-11, 01:07 PM
A little bit of research and information exchange.
Not one bit of hardware cooperation.

That will come when their space station becomes operational and they start the manned moon landing in earnest.

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-11, 01:16 PM
That will come when their space station becomes operational and they start the manned moon landing in earnest.
Your opinion. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it's not relevant at this point.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-22, 10:00 AM
A little bit of research and information exchange.
Not one bit of hardware cooperation.

If you read the article I posted on the Chinese Space Station thread (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?152373-China-Space-Station&p=2242513) #48 France is helping with Tiangong-2 space station module.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-22, 11:18 AM
Now India joins the list of countries looking at joint cooperation in space with China.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Isro-inks-deal-with-China-for-space-exploration/articleshow/43020333.cms


Breaking the ice with the northern neighbour, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), which has collaborated with several countries since 1960s, is finally set to work with the China National Space Administration.

To start with, a joint team of space scientists from the two countries will prepare a roadmap for a series of missions to be implemented together, Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan told STOI in an exclusive interview three days before the crucial Mars Orbiter Mission is inserted into the Red Planet's orbit.

"An agreement was signed about two days ago. A joint working team comprising experts from China and India will begin work in the coming weeks," he said. The agreement is aimed at encouraging exchange and cooperation for "peaceful purposes", and a lot of emphasis will be on research and development, including of communication satellites. He, however, said names of people in the team cannot be revealed at this juncture. The agreement is seen as a great opportunity for India.

"This will be the first (agreement) with China and we look forward to it as both the countries are crucial in creating a strong space presence in Asia. There were some initiations in 1991, but nothing much happened. After that, there were comments here and there, but this is not just a gesture, but a concrete step forward in cooperation," Radhakrishnan said.

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-22, 01:04 PM
If you read the article I posted on the Chinese Space Station thread (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?152373-China-Space-Station&p=2242513) #48 France is helping with Tiangong-2 space station module.
I did read the article, and it didn't mention France, or any other country.
Even your comments said "hint" of international cooperation. That doesn't mean hardware exchange.

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-22, 01:08 PM
Now India joins the list of countries looking at joint cooperation in space with China.
Of all the talk about Chinese cooperation, I find this one the most likely to expand beyond mere political posturing.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-22, 01:12 PM
I did read the article, and it didn't mention France, or any other country.
Even your comments said "hint" of international cooperation. That doesn't mean hardware exchange.

Please reread the article in post #48. It has the following


France has several bilateral missions planned with the China National Space Administration. One is called Cardiospace, which will be launched on China’s Tiangong-2 space station module in 2016 and used to study Chinese taikonauts’ circulation. Two Cardiospace units were delivered to the Astronaut Center of China in March and June to be integrated into the 20,000-kilogram Tiangong-2.

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-22, 01:35 PM
Please reread the article in post #48. It has the following
Sorry, your link brought me to post #41. (to link the actual post, use the link that clicking on the post number provides)

I'm not sure how experimental packages fit in what I have been considering hardware exchange. But; Yes, it is something noteworthy.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-25, 10:20 AM
Nigeria joins a string of countries using Chinese launch facilities.

http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41980nigeria-to-launch-indigenous-satellite-by-2018-minister

NEOWatcher
2014-Sep-25, 12:05 PM
Nigeria joins a string of countries using Chinese launch facilities.
Not that I doubt it, but that article doesn't say anything about who will launch the satellite.

They already have (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Space_Research_and_Development_Agency) a partnership with China (and Russia, Ukraine, and others) who has helped build and launch their satellites.
The news here is that this satellite is NOT going to be built by China.

In fact, they are hoping to start up their own launch facilities and rockets with the Ukraine's help.

Welcome to the world of international cooperation where borders are becoming less apparent.

selvaarchi
2014-Sep-25, 12:17 PM
Not that I doubt it, but that article doesn't say anything about who will launch the satellite.

They already have (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Space_Research_and_Development_Agency) a partnership with China (and Russia, Ukraine, and others) who has helped build and launch their satellites.
The news here is that this satellite is NOT going to be built by China.

In fact, they are hoping to start up their own launch facilities and rockets with the Ukraine's help.

Welcome to the world of international cooperation where borders are becoming less apparent.
You are right. I miss read the article.

selvaarchi
2014-Oct-01, 04:45 AM
Looks like Canada is joining the US to keep the Chinese and Russians out!!!

http://www.go-taikonauts.com/en/chinese-space-news/945-china-and-russia-absent-from-iac-2014


As reported by numerous sources, high ranking officials from the Russian Space Agency Roscosmos and from the Chinese National Space Administration were denied visas to Canada and were thus unable to attend the International Astronautical Congress, IAC, currently being held in Toronto, Canada.

NEOWatcher
2014-Oct-01, 12:03 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun. We have no clue why the visas were denied.

selvaarchi
2014-Oct-02, 01:29 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun. We have no clue why the visas were denied.

The Russians seem to have a view of why the visas were denied.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/42052russia-canada-%E2%80%98politicizing%E2%80%99-space-exploration


anada’s refusal to allow Russian delegates to attend a prestigious international astronautical symposium has angered Moscow, which said the decision flies in the face of international space co-operation and amounts to politicizing space exploration over the conflict in Ukraine.

NEOWatcher
2014-Oct-02, 01:36 PM
The Russians seem to have a view of why the visas were denied.
Yep, just "a view". Probably a good one, but still not definite.

selvaarchi
2014-Oct-03, 01:44 AM
Yep, just "a view". Probably a good one, but still not definite.

Bit more definite with this report.

http://www.clivesimpson.co.uk/space-leaders-refused-visas/


An official from Roscomos confirmed via the Interfax news agency on Tuesday that only two of its delegation had obtained visas and these were both translators who had been the last to apply.

“Failure to obtain visas for Russians is clearly politically motivated,” the official said.

A spokesperson for Canada’s Citizenship and Immigration department admitted some applications had been denied.

selvaarchi
2014-Oct-03, 09:38 AM
Does not look likely the US will change their stand on cooperation with China in the near future.

http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/iac2014-day-four-opens-with-diverse-views-on-the-post-iss-future


The question of cooperating with China arose as it often does in these settings. Gerstenmaier pointed out that under current law NASA cannot discuss human space cooperation with China, but expressed hope that the situation may change in the future. Gold agreed that if mutual benefit can be shown, the China door may open, but for now China is the “third rail” of export control politics. Although changes are being made to the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), they do not apply to China, he pointed out.

NEOWatcher
2014-Oct-03, 12:23 PM
Let me just say that the political issues with China are far deeper than space exploration. Space exploration is just a blip in the issue.
This is one reason that I prefer not to get into this subject. Popping a story into this thread almost every day is not going to change the issue.
Yes; the political issues affect the spaceflight, but spaceflight cooperation is not the issue.

selvaarchi
2014-Nov-13, 03:59 AM
The Russians are in talks with the Chinese about access to the Chinese space station. They are also considering inviting the Chinese to the Russian segment of the ISS.

The full article is in Russian.

http://www.go-taikonauts.com/en/

"As for possible projects in the area of manned programme, China has an interest, and they express that interest us. This is confirmed by the talks that we had today," said Ostapenko to RIA Novosti journalists. He added: "I do not rule out the option that within the expanding cooperation with China, we might consider the option to launch our astronauts to the Chinese Space Station, and in the future to see the Chinese taikonauts in our segment of the ISS."

Noclevername
2014-Nov-13, 04:04 AM
Keep in mind that the Chinese astronauts call themselves astronauts. The word "taikonaut" is a Western aberration.

Jens
2014-Nov-13, 12:06 PM
Keep in mind that the Chinese astronauts call themselves astronauts. The word "taikonaut" is a Western aberration.

I think it's more complicated than that. I don't know what they call themselves, but it surely can't be "astronauts." I suspect it's similar to the Japanese term, which is 宇宙飛行士, or "space pilots." OK, now I looked it up. In mainland China they seem to use 宇航人, which means "space traveler." So they use neither "astronaut" or "cosmonaut" or "taikonaut." It seems that the "taiko" is Hong Kong usage, from 太空, which means something like "the great sky."

Jens
2014-Nov-13, 12:10 PM
And to add something, it's interesting that for Russian astronauts we use the local term cosmonaut, but for Germans we don't use the term Raumfahrer. Why?

Noclevername
2014-Nov-14, 04:42 AM
I think it's more complicated than that. I don't know what they call themselves, but it surely can't be "astronauts." I suspect it's similar to the Japanese term, which is 宇宙飛行士, or "space pilots." OK, now I looked it up. In mainland China they seem to use 宇航人, which means "space traveler." So they use neither "astronaut" or "cosmonaut" or "taikonaut." It seems that the "taiko" is Hong Kong usage, from 太空, which means something like "the great sky."

:doh: Thanks. I guess I should research first and blab later.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-07, 12:27 PM
Some surprising news on US-China cooperation. Like to see more of that happening.:) It is a step in the right direction.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/42869us-to-expedite-orbital-collision-avoidance-warnings-to-china


China recently asked that the data be sent directly to its satellite operators in the name of expediency and Hyten said the Air Force would comply the next time it spots a potential collision involving Chinese space hardware.

“It takes a long time to get through that process. Sometimes too long,” Hyten said. “The Chinese just a little while ago said, ‘We’d very much like that data direct.’”

Hyten acknowledged that providing the data itself is not a fundamental change, but said the new procedure would avoid bureaucratic holdups and enable quicker action by Chinese operators, such as maneuvering their satellites out of harm’s way.

“To me it’s a big deal. It’s a big deal because they asked,” he said. “We want to space to be a safe place.”

During a July meeting between U.S. and Chinese officials in Beijing, the two sides committed to continuing discussions on a way for China to access more detailed technical collision avoidance information from U.S. Strategic Command, according to a July release on the U.S. State Department. That information would come through Strategic Command’s Spacetrack website, which provides basic satellite catalog information, including positional data and background information.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-07, 05:29 PM
Some surprising news on US-China cooperation. Like to see more of that happening.:) It is a step in the right direction.
It's in the best interest of the US to help prevent collisions which increase orbital debris. I'm not sure if this is a step in the right direction as much as it is just preservation of the space environment.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-07, 11:51 PM
It's in the best interest of the US to help prevent collisions which increase orbital debris. I'm not sure if this is a step in the right direction as much as it is just preservation of the space environment.

With that I will agree. It is also my humble opinion that it is also in the best interest of the US to cooperate with China in space exploration. The next phase in manned space exploration is in BEO. It is not cheap. Teaming up with other countries will not only spread the financial burden but also bring on the table a bigger spread of technology solutions and skills. Even in LEO the ISS is quickly coming up to its "past use date". Will it not be better if the US and China teamed with other countries to build the next space station now (before China starts building its own)?

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-08, 12:37 AM
It is also my humble opinion that it is also in the best interest of the US to cooperate with China in space exploration.
Why China? There are lots of countries out there to cooperate with, and the US has been successfully using them.
There are political issues here that are much larger than putting another player in the mix.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-08, 01:08 AM
Why China? There are lots of countries out there to cooperate with, and the US has been successfully using them.
There are political issues here that are much larger than putting another player in the mix.

China is fast catching up with the US and Russia in space capabilities. They are the fastest growing economy in the world right now and putting money in space exploration. Their future space plans are similar to what the US and Russia are aiming for (except the moon where the US has dropped out).

Most important, we are in a point time when the majority of the plans are still on paper. If we cooperate now we would be able to push the worlds space capabilities to a higher level much quicker. An example is the ISS. At most it will last another 10 years. Planning for a new one should start now. China is already well on the way to develop their own. If we cooperate now, that space station could be the next ISS.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-08, 01:29 AM
Someday, maybe. But, they are still in their infancy. Let them demonstrate first. Then, we can start addressing the political issues.

Look at the history of US and Russian/Soviet efforts. The politics prevented anything but a handshake in space in the 70's. Cooperation in Mir, and agreements to cooperate with ISS did not happen until a MAJOR political shift.

Like I said before, China is only one more player. No matter how fast China is forging ahead, they are not doing anything we haven't, and with their ambition plans, they probably wouldn't be able to shift gears to get into anything more than token cooperation.

The US is leaving LEO. Nobody else is ready to do that yet.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-08, 07:57 AM
Someday, maybe. But, they are still in their infancy. Let them demonstrate first. Then, we can start addressing the political issues.

I will not classify China as being in their infancy. To me they are well ahead of Europe, Japan and India. Now is the time to be talking to them about the Chinese space station. It is still under development. There is time to talk to them to modify their plans to incorporate the experiences that the US and its partners have in running the ISS the last 14 years. It would also be an opportunity to invite the other major player, India, into the international group. By the time the new space station is ready, India should have its own capability for manned space flight.


Like I said before, China is only one more player. No matter how fast China is forging ahead, they are not doing anything we haven't, and with their ambition plans, they probably wouldn't be able to shift gears to get into anything more than token cooperation.


I do not remember the US doing anything like that China is doing with their service module at the Earth-Moon second Lagrange Point (L2). The US might have done lots on the moon but most of it is from over 40 years ago.

Europe and Japan play a supportive role to the US in manned space exploration. The other major player is Russia and right now, I would say they are closer to China than to the west.


The US is leaving LEO. Nobody else is ready to do that yet.

My bet is still on China getting manned flight to BEO before the US in the early 2020s. At that time it would also be a good time to discuss an international drive to set up one or more moon bases.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-08, 04:03 PM
I will not classify China as being in their infancy. To me they are well ahead of Europe, Japan and India.
It depends on the aspects. While Europe and Japan do not have a manned craft, they have mature infrastructures, launch vehicles, a robust satellite industry, and both have their own modules on ISS.


Now is the time to be talking to them about the Chinese space station. It is still under development. There is time to talk to them to modify their plans to incorporate the experiences that the US and its partners have in running the ISS the last 14 years. It would also be an opportunity to invite the other major player, India, into the international group. By the time the new space station is ready, India should have its own capability for manned space flight.
But they aren't. The political issues are bigger. Perhaps you should accept it.


I do not remember the US doing anything like that China is doing with their service module at the Earth-Moon second Lagrange Point (L2).
That's cherrypicking. How many things has the US done that China hasn't? Plenty.


The US might have done lots on the moon but most of it is from over 40 years ago.
Why does the time matter? We have the technology. We have different interests in mind (particularly deep space). We learned most of what we needed there. China is at the flag and footprints stage as we were 50 years ago.


Europe and Japan play a supportive role to the US in manned space exploration. The other major player is Russia and right now, I would say they are closer to China than to the west.
That's your opinion. While I can respect it, I don't share it.


My bet is still on China getting manned flight to BEO before the US in the early 2020s. At that time it would also be a good time to discuss an international drive to set up one or more moon bases.
Given enough money, perhaps. But it will be difficult to add such a task to an already loaded schedule, and to learn what they need to learn for BEO manned travel.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-08, 11:07 PM
It depends on the aspects. While Europe and Japan do not have a manned craft, they have mature infrastructures, launch vehicles, a robust satellite industry, and both have their own modules on ISS.

They all have mature infrastructures, launch vehicles and a robust satellite industry. While China does not have their own module on ISS they do have ‎Tiangong-1. China's published future plans (‎Tiangong-2, space station and sample return to the moon) puts them ahead of Europe and Japan in my eyes.


‎But they aren't. The political issues are bigger. Perhaps you should accept it.

Political issues change. The US - Russian cooperation is a case in point. Ultimately it might be the $$$ that might change the US mindset. We are at a point in time, where China is about to embark on their own space station and the US led ISS is on its last legs, giving us a window to build a truly International Space Station. The present one is controlled by one country.


That's cherrypicking. How many things has the US done that China hasn't? Plenty.

You do not categorize the US then in your statement "only one more player". To me the US, Russia and China is way ahead all the other countries.


Why does the time matter? We have the technology. We have different interests in mind (particularly deep space). We learned most of what we needed there. China is at the flag and footprints stage as we were 50 years ago.

Do you have the technology? The US will have to relearn a lot of the things they did 40 years ago, but I would agree overall the US is still streets ahead of China in space technology.


That's your opinion. While I can respect it, I don't share it.

And I respect yours :)


Given enough money, perhaps. But it will be difficult to add such a task to an already loaded schedule, and to learn what they need to learn for BEO manned travel.

China's loaded schedule only takes it to 2022. There are no firm published plans after that. As for money, I would say it applies more to the US than to China.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-08, 11:57 PM
Political issues change.
And until they do, this is all a moot point.


The US - Russian cooperation is a case in point. Ultimately it might be the $$$ that might change the US mindset.
No, it won't. As I keep saying, the political issues are much bigger than just wanting a new partner in space travel.
It wasn't money that helped US-Russian cooperation.



We are at a point in time, where China is about to embark on their own space station and the US led ISS is on its last legs, giving us a window to build a truly International Space Station. The present one is controlled by one country.
So; you don't think China will control theirs even with partners.
ISS operations and modules look rather international (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/ISS_Centers.svg/1280px-ISS_Centers.svg.png) to me.




You do not categorize the US then in your statement "only one more player". To me the US, Russia and China is way ahead all the other countries.
So they are big players... so what?
Besides, You missed the point of my comment. You were trying to make your point by only pointing out one project.




Do you have the technology? The US will have to relearn a lot of the things they did 40 years ago, but I would agree overall the US is still streets ahead of China in space technology.
Yep; that's part of my point.




China's loaded schedule only takes it to 2022. There are no firm published plans after that. As for money, I would say it applies more to the US than to China.
Yep; and I don't want to go into that, because the economics that China vs US are using is too politically charged.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-09, 03:15 AM
So; you don't think China will control theirs even with partners.
ISS operations and modules look rather international to me.

As it stands now it is a Chinese project. But, what I would like to see is, it become is a truly international station where no one country has a veto over the others.

I do not see the ISS as an International space station, where 2 of the top 6 spare faring nations are not included in it. It is a multinational project with the US having a major say.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-09, 02:33 PM
I do not see the ISS as an International space station, where 2 of the top 6 spare faring nations are not included in it. It is a multinational project with the US having a major say.
And what was the state of those 2 nations 16 years ago? or even 10 when it was maturing?

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-09, 03:04 PM
And what was the state of those 2 nations 16 years ago? or even 10 when it was maturing?

That is not the point. We need to be looking at the future and not at the past. What will it be like 10 to 15 years from now, is the more appropriate question.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-09, 03:46 PM
That is not the point. We need to be looking at the future and not at the past. What will it be like 10 to 15 years from now, is the more appropriate question.
Yes; it is the point. You are complaining the ISS is not international. When it was conceived and built, it was among all the mature international space agencies. YOU are talking about the past.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-10, 12:28 AM
Yes; it is the point. You are complaining the ISS is not international. When it was conceived and built, it was among all the mature international space agencies. YOU are talking about the past.
Then I would say it would have been polite of the existing members to have invited those countries if they still wanted to call it "International". Instead they allowed politics to interfere with a scientific endeavour.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-10, 02:10 PM
Then I would say it would have been polite of the existing members to have invited those countries if they still wanted to call it "International". Instead they allowed politics to interfere with a scientific endeavour.
Polite has nothing to do with it. Docking experience, mature space technology, and time to plan does.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-10, 02:46 PM
Polite has nothing to do with it. Docking experience, mature space technology, and time to plan does.

The only ones with docking experience, mature space technology, and time to plan when the ISS was conceived was the US and Russia. Even the US commercial companies did not have docking experience till recently.

China has all three. India certainly has a mature space technology, and time to plan but admittedly no docking experience currently.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-10, 03:01 PM
India certainly has a mature space technology, and time to plan but admittedly no docking experience currently.
India is a good example. They, along with South Korea, started talks in 2010 (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/south-korea-india-to-begin-iss-partnership-talks-in-333406/). It was contingent on the ISS lasting past 2020. This is to give all sides time to do whatever needs to be done to accomplish it.
So; With the exception of China, it has been happening.

Change the politics with China first, and THEN we can talk about space cooperation. (which is why I brought up the Russian participation example)

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-10, 03:25 PM
India is a good example. They, along with South Korea, started talks in 2010 (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/south-korea-india-to-begin-iss-partnership-talks-in-333406/). It was contingent on the ISS lasting past 2020. This is to give all sides time to do whatever needs to be done to accomplish it.
So; With the exception of China, it has been happening.

Change the politics with China first, and THEN we can talk about space cooperation. (which is why I brought up the Russian participation example)

And 4 years later where are we. India and South Korea might have better luck talking with China to build an Asian Space Station.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-10, 10:33 PM
And 4 years later where are we. India and South Korea might have better luck talking with China to build an Asian Space Station.
South Korea had an astronaut at the ISS (http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/south-koreas-only-astronaut-retires/) and has not made any effort since then.

India is still trying to come up with a contribution (http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/india-initiates-steps-to-join-international-space-station-114010500670_1.html) for their share. It's up to them at this point.

This is similar to what happened to Brazil. They were a partner but had to drop out because Embraer couldn't follow through on the contract.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-10, 10:52 PM
South Korea had an astronaut at the ISS (http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/south-koreas-only-astronaut-retires/) and has not made any effort since then.

India is still trying to come up with a contribution (http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/india-initiates-steps-to-join-international-space-station-114010500670_1.html) for their share. It's up to them at this point.

This is similar to what happened to Brazil. They were a partner but had to drop out because Embraer couldn't follow through on the contract.

Taken 4 years for the invite but at least it is happening. :clap:

Garrison
2014-Dec-11, 12:08 AM
And 4 years later where are we. India and South Korea might have better luck talking with China to build an Asian Space Station.

You act as if India and South Korea had the same kind of cordial relations with China that the EU and Japan have with the USA. They don't hence the lack of co-operation. Russia only became part of the ISS program to keep their rocket experts from sellign their expertise elsewhere in that period after the fall of the USSR.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-11, 12:15 AM
You act as if India and South Korea had the same kind of cordial relations with China that the EU and Japan have with the USA. They don't hence the lack of co-operation. Russia only became part of the ISS program to keep their rocket experts from sellign their expertise elsewhere in that period after the fall of the USSR.
India and China are discussing joint projects

Garrison
2014-Dec-11, 12:31 AM
India and China are discussing joint projects

And India discussed plans for joining the ISS, why is one more significant than the other? Is this another example of the twisted logic you applied to define an NGO?

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-11, 03:25 AM
And India discussed plans for joining the ISS, why is one more significant than the other? Is this another example of the twisted logic you applied to define an NGO?
Discussion to join ISS has been going on since 2010.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-11, 05:04 PM
Discussion to join ISS has been going on since 2010.
And the India-China discussion has been going on since 2004 (http://spacenews.com/41942india-and-china-sign-space-cooperation-pact/) and hasn't gone much farther than sharing some data.

I think in the overall discussion, this statement says it best:

Sridharamurthy cautioned that “much depends on how much they are willing to share — the fine print is important.
... and we can see how much China shares with the public (at least before they accomplish something)

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-11, 09:54 PM
And the India-China discussion has been going on since 2004 (http://spacenews.com/41942india-and-china-sign-space-cooperation-pact/) and hasn't gone much farther than sharing some data.

I think in the overall discussion, this statement says it best:

... and we can see how much China shares with the public (at least before they accomplish something)
You do have a point there though I must say I was pleased to read about the amount they published in the journal about their Cheng'e mission including Yutu.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-12, 12:45 AM
You do have a point there...
Thank you for understanding.


...though I must say I was pleased to read about the amount they published in the journal about their Cheng'e mission including Yutu.
I'm pleased to get any information, but wasn't that published when it was done? Do we have any idea if there was an estimate or if they had an overrun?

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-12, 09:26 AM
I'm pleased to get any information, but wasn't that published when it was done? Do we have any idea if there was an estimate or if they had an overrun?

No infirmation on the overrun that I could find. It is very recent info and I pointed to it in my post #107 on the "China's moon exploration ambitions" on 30th November.

What I am sad about is they have deleted their Facebook page "China Space". It used to give lots of intresting information on their space progress and pictures. The last one they had a picture showing the flight path of their service module and its present position circling the L2 point. Also showing it will infuture circle very close to the moon. (My speculation - that might have given more info. of their future plans and reason to delete the page)

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-13, 01:10 PM
ESA is doing to do joint research with China in space.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Engineering_Technology/Crude_oil_cargo_for_ESA_s_first_flight_with_China


ESA is finalising its first experiment on a Chinese space mission: small containers of crude oil will help to improve our understanding of oil reservoirs buried kilometres underground.

The package has already passed a gamut of testing at ESA’s Technical Centre, ESTEC, in Noordwijk, the Netherlands, including the temperature shifts of orbital flight and the vibration and shocks of launch and reentry.

Known as the ‘Soret Coefficient in Crude Oil’ experiment, it consists of six sturdy cylinders, each containing a millilitre of crude oil, pressurised to 400 times our normal atmospheric level – among the highest pressure items ever made for space.

The outcome of a partnership between ESA, China’s National Space Science Center, France’s Total oil company and China’s PetroChina oil company, it will fly on China’s SJ-10 Shi Jian spacecraft near the end of 2015, along with 19 other weightless experiments.

publiusr
2014-Dec-13, 08:20 PM
Here is their Long March 5 as it is being assembled
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8447.msg1302022#msg1302022

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-13, 11:18 PM
Here is their Long March 5 as it is being assembled
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8447.msg1302022#msg1302022

Thanks for the pictures. It is nice to see the Long March 5 actually taking shape. Can not wait for its first flight next year.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-13, 11:43 PM
After the successful launch of CBERS-4 (China-Brazil Earth Resources Satellite) satellite, China and Brazil have singed a pact that the two governments will cooperate to develop and further enhance science and technology innovations.

http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/27541/20141212/china-and-brazil-vow-to-promote-science-and-technology-for-developing-countries.htm


During the recent years, the space program has produced rewarding and profitable results in regards to scientific and technological advances for both countries. It also yielded great economic contribution alongside social development.

The launch of the CBERS-4 satellite was carried into space by a Long March-4B rocket, which is also the 200th rocket mission from the Long March family as it demonstrated the Sino-Brazilian scientific and technological efforts.

The Chinese head of state has high hopes when it comes to the implementation of this 10 year-long bilateral space cooperation pact. This strategic partnership aims to strengthen and fortify technological innovation among the two countries.

According to Rousseff, the CBERS program shows immense potential when it comes to scientific cooperation and improving technological innovations for developing countries.

This will also mark as a historical milestone for Brazil and China where they aim to share their satellite images to African and Latin American nations in the spirit of technological cooperation.

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-15, 11:52 PM
Some surprising news on US-China cooperation. Like to see more of that happening.:) It is a step in the right direction.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/42869us-to-expedite-orbital-collision-avoidance-warnings-to-china

More details on the US-China cooperation.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141214/DEFREG03/312140016/



But he expressed optimism this could be a step forward for China in joining international norms for space, noting, “we want space to be a safe place to operate, and that means every nation needs to be involved in that.”

“That’s tremendous,” Hyten said of China’s request. “That’s awesome. Because that is the kind of international partnership we need to think about.”

A State Department official directed a request for comment back to the Pentagon. The longer CSM process remains with Russia.

Brian Weeden, technical adviser to the Secure World Foundation, compared the situation with China to that with Russian space launch, where US intelligence experts understand how Russian systems are put into orbit and operate.

“Like the US, Russia has settled into some pretty defined patterns and operational techniques,” he said. “We didn’t have that same familiarity with China, and anytime there’s unfamiliarity, there is a risk of both misperceptions and mistakes.”

Weeden said lines of communication were also open between the Russians and US during the Cold War, which may not be there on space issues between the US and China. Opening those lines is the biggest result of this new policy shift, he said.

“China is on a path to develop full spectrum space capabilities, and there are those in the US that see that as not only competition, but potentially adversarial,” he added. “Lines of communication and some degree of familiarity can help incidents from escalating out of control.”

Marco Caceres, a space analyst with the Teal Group, called the CSM change a “win-win” for both sides.

“Every time you cooperate, every time you fulfill or submit a request, that is how you build relationships,” Caceres said. “Particularly if the US is coming to see China as their next military rival in space, and they are doing an awful lot and spending a lot more money on both military and non-military space, potentially [this new agreement] could be significant because it strengthens the relationship.”
The New Space Rival

The view in the US is turning more toward China becoming the newest, and perhaps most serious, threat to US dominance in space.

Talk to experts inside and outside the Pentagon about China’s space program, and the reaction tends to be a mixture of concern and grudging respect for how quickly China has built up its program.

Caceres noted that China has launched almost as many satellites this year as Russia and the US, of which around half are military.

NEOWatcher
2014-Dec-16, 12:35 AM
I see that as peace talks rather than actual cooperation. It's basically establishing international procedures to prevent "misunderstandings".

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-16, 05:02 AM
I see that as peace talks rather than actual cooperation. It's basically establishing international procedures to prevent "misunderstandings".

The space derbies warning is something they currently do but cutting out the middlemen :D- the state department of both countries :whistle:

selvaarchi
2014-Dec-17, 01:49 AM
When I started this thread back in May with a joint agreement with Russia, there were a lot of skeptics on how far China will progress down that path. Looks like China has proved the skeptics wrong with the latest agreement with ESA, which even gives them a backdoor to conduct experiments on the ISS before their space station is ready.

http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1471


On December 11, Wang Zhaoyao, Director of the China Manned Space Agency, met with Mr. Jean-Jacques Dordain, Director of European Space Agency in Beijing. The two leaders signed an agreement between CMSA and ESA concerning cooperation on human spaceflight activities (hereinafter referred to as the “Cooperation Agreement”). It marks that the Sino-EU cooperation in the field of manned spaceflight has entered a substantial stage.

Director Wang Zhaoyao introduced the latest developments of China’s manned spaceflight program, and retrospected the bilateral exchanges and cooperation in the field of manned spaceflight since 2014. He said that in the past year, both parties conducted profound exchanges and cooperation in astronaut selection and training and the space applications, and achieved fruitful results. Wang Zhaoyao hopes that the signing of the Cooperation Agreement will become an opportunity to promote bilateral cooperation for more achievements.

Director Dordain introduced the latest developments of the ESA Philae's comet landing and the ISS mission, briefed about the outcomes of the recently-held ESA Ministerial Meeting, and expressed his admirations for the effective work of his Chinese counterpart. He said that ESA always actively support the cooperation with China in the field of manned spaceflight, and is willing to continue to promote China into participating in the multilateral cooperation on the International Space Station. ESA will further deepen the bilateral cooperation and exchanges in the field of manned spaceflight based on the Cooperation Agreement.

selvaarchi
2015-Jan-17, 03:26 PM
Who it is emphasized are not representing their agencies, so again please; what key players? For that matter what makes you think astronauts are key players in deciding their agencies/governments policy towards China's space program?

Does ESA in your eyes represent a key player in European space activities :D. I ask this as ESA governments have made China one of three long-term strategic partners for the agency. The other two being USA and Russia.

http://spacenews.com/esa-hikes-budget-takes-steps-to-send-astronaut-to-chinese-space-station/


The European Space Agency is actively working with China with the goal of placing a European astronaut on the Chinese space station as part of a relationship that is likely to grow now that ESA governments have made China one of three long-term strategic partners for the agency, ESA Director-General Jean-Jacques Dordain said Jan. 16.

For the moment, Dordain said, there are no specific plans for an ESA astronaut mission aboard China’s space station. But government ministers from the 20-nation ESA — to become 22 nations in the coming weeks with the addition of Hungary and Estonia — in December for the first time formally listed China alongside the United States and Russia as core ESA strategic partners.

ESA astronauts have visited China’s astronaut-training facilities and several are learning to speak Chinese as part of ESA’s partnership with the China Manned Space Flight Office, Dordain said.

selvaarchi
2015-Mar-21, 05:45 AM
European Space Agency (ESA) and the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) have received 15 proposals for a joint project between them.

The proposed missions will now be assessed for their technological feasibility and scientific merit. By the end of this year, the pool will be narrowed down to a winner or a handful of contenders, which will enter a study phase of around two years, with a final go-ahead expected in 2017.

The final selected mission will be led by principal investigators affiliated with both European and Chinese institutions, with an aim to launch in 2021.

http://www.nature.com/news/china-and-eu-pore-over-proposals-for-joint-space-mission-1.17133


The call is the EU’s first step on the path to more collaboration with China, says Fabio Favata, head of science planning and community coordination at ESA. Whether a bigger joint project follows will depend on how this one fares.

Although proposals can cover any scientific area — bar exploration of the Moon or Mars, which are covered by separate programmes at both agencies — the mission’s scope is limited by its funding. The EU will contribute just more than €50 million (US$53 million) to the project, which China is expected to match.

The call is a “win–win” situation for China and the EU, says Taotao Fang, an astronomer at Xiamen University in China, who is part of the team that proposed the MESSIER orbiter, a telescope studying galaxy formation.

China’s biggest gain will be learning from ESA’s experience in purely scientific missions, which have been rare in China’s space programme, says Linjie Chen, a member of the DSL team and an astrophysicist at the Chinese National Astronomical Observatories in Beijing.

ESA can gain from collaborating with a country with a healthy space programme backed by growing investment, adds Chen. In 2013, China became the first country since the 1970s to put a lander on the Moon. The country is planning a lunar sample-return mission in 2017 and aims to build a space station by 2020. China is also planning to launch four space-science missions, starting with the Dark Matter Particle Explorer (DAMPE) in November.

selvaarchi
2015-May-30, 03:48 PM
Leonard David blog from May 30th, 2015 has an interesting headline - U.S./China Space Station Cooperation: Open the Airlock Obama?

He points in the blog to a few articles where pressure is building for the US to start cooperating with China.

http://www.leonarddavid.com/u-schina-space-station-cooperation-open-the-airlock-obama/


You could consider them trial balloons, in the juggernaut jargon of Washington, D.C. politics.

The prospect that China may be invited to climb onboard the International Space Station seems airborne for discussion.

No telling, but perhaps the overtures are just in time for the 40th anniversary of the joint Apollo-Soyuz (U.S.-Russia) mission in 1975 this coming July?

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-04, 09:49 AM
European Space Agency (ESA) and the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) have received 15 proposals for a joint project between them.

The proposed missions will now be assessed for their technological feasibility and scientific merit. By the end of this year, the pool will be narrowed down to a winner or a handful of contenders, which will enter a study phase of around two years, with a final go-ahead expected in 2017.

The final selected mission will be led by principal investigators affiliated with both European and Chinese institutions, with an aim to launch in 2021.]

Looks like they have narrowed it down to the SMILE mission.

http://sci.esa.int/cosmic-vision/55972-esa-and-chinese-academy-of-sciences-to-study-smile-as-joint-mission/

[QUOTE]European and Chinese scientists have recommended the Solar wind Magnetosphere Ionosphere Link Explorer as their candidate for a collaborative science mission for launch in 2021.

SMILE will investigate the interaction between Earth's protective shield – the magnetosphere – and the supersonic solar wind. The mission is expected to make an important contribution to our understanding of space weather and, in particular, the physical processes taking place during the continuous interaction between the solar wind and the magnetosphere.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-07, 08:58 PM
ESA's Jean-Jacques Dordain, outgoing Director General of ESA met with his Chinese counterpart Yu Tongjie, Director General of CMSA in Beijing.

http://en.cmse.gov.cn/show.php?contentid=1472


Yu Tongjie extended warm welcome to Dordain’s visit. He briefly reviewed mutual exchanges and visits, and summed up the accomplishments achieved in cooperation, saying that two sides have signed several cooperation documents and over ten technical meetings since the start of cooperation. He noted that cooperation between the two sides is based on mutual trust, friendship and support. He also introduced the progress of China Manned Space Program.

This is Dordain’s last China trip as ESA Director. Yu Tongjie spoke highly of Dordain’s efforts and contributions in promoting two sides’ cooperation. He said, Dordain not only opened the door to CMSA-ESA human space cooperation but also pushed forward the establishment of China as ESA’s strategic partner in Europe’s ministerial meeting.

Yu Tongjie concluded that with the government-level cooperative agreement as guidelines and with the establishment of three working groups, the two sides enjoyed good foundation in cooperation. To facilitate the following work, Yu Tongjie proposed to establish a joint committee headed by the two sides’ directors to coordinate, monitor and make decisions on related work in cooperation.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-13, 12:10 PM
Buzz Aldrin makes a plea to the US to start working with China. By not cooperating it will be a loss to the US. He sites Europe as an example of cooperation on manned flight. To me Russia is a better example as they are already exploring options for a base on the moon.

http://time.com/3916379/buzz-aldrin-china-space-partnership/#3916379/buzz-aldrin-china-space-partnership/


But suppose U.S. leadership in promoting space cooperation with China is a no-show. Other nations are already stepping into this arena.

Specifically, the European Space Agency and China have blueprinted a cooperative work plan for space. ESA and the China Manned Space Agency signed a framework agreement in December 2014, reaffirming that partnership last month. The two sides have established working groups on space experiments and utilization, astronaut selection, training and flight, and space infrastructure of mutual interest to both organizations.

Let’s consider some key facts.

China is readying their Tiangong-2 space lab to be lofted around 2016. Once that facility is in Earth orbit, it will be followed by a piloted Shenzhou-11 spacecraft and first use of the Tianzhou cargo craft to rendezvous with and support lab operations. A core segment for a larger, multi-module space station is also on their agenda, to be placed in Earth orbit around 2018. That station is expected to be fully constructed around 2022. China is itself taking strides to make their orbiting outpost available to other countries.

It is time that America take stock in and re-examine our goals and objectives in space. Let us recommit to objectives that make the most sense. History does not make itself. But unfortunately it is not just made by actions … but also inaction.

7cscb
2015-Jun-14, 08:52 PM
Buzz Aldrin makes a plea to the US to start working with China. By not cooperating it will be a loss to the US...

I would think at this point it is a greater loss for China.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-14, 09:00 PM
I would think at this point it is a greater loss for China.

My view was Buzz Aldrin was referring to work that ESA was going to do with manned flight and the the Chinese Space Station. As it is ESA is working with China to supply some instruments for the Tiangong-2 space lab.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-16, 03:15 AM
The only ones with docking experience, mature space technology, and time to plan when the ISS was conceived was the US and Russia. Even the US commercial companies did not have docking experience till recently.

China has all three. India certainly has a mature space technology, and time to plan but admittedly no docking experience currently.

NEOWatcher, remember when we discussed this about this 6 months ago in this thread. Now we have "New ESA Head Wants India and China on International Space Station".

http://clapway.com/2015/06/14/new-esa-head-wants-india-and-china-on-iss-876/


Johann-Dietrich Woerner, the incoming chair of the European Space Agency, has recently stated in a published interview that the International Space Station should be opened to India and China. “We need to get away from the principle of being a closed group,” he told German news magazine Spiegel as part of an interview with overtones of anti-elitism. There are currently 15 countries backing ISS, with India and China notably excluded. Both countries are world powers that have completed avant-garde space missions and have the technology to contribute to new research.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-16, 01:17 PM
NEOWatcher, remember when we discussed this about this 6 months ago in this thread. Now we have "New ESA Head Wants India and China on International Space Station".
That doesn't change US and China space relationships. Maybe it puts some political pressures on the situation but this doesn't change things.

Besides, what you were quoting was about docking. Even if China is invited to participate, it probably still won't be with hardware. By the time they develop compatibility, testing and certification, there won't be much life left in the station.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-16, 01:37 PM
That doesn't change US and China space relationships. Maybe it puts some political pressures on the situation but this doesn't change things.

Besides, what you were quoting was about docking. Even if China is invited to participate, it probably still won't be with hardware. By the time they develop compatibility, testing and certification, there won't be much life left in the station.

It is all the discussions we had from post #88 onwards. Docking was just a pointer to the discussing we were having on China and India not being included in the ISS. For the first time I see a member of the ISS group saying in an official interview that they would like China and India included in the group.

The present head of ESA also mentioned they were in discussion with China to have the European astronauts take part in the Chinese Space Station.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-16, 04:13 PM
It is all the discussions we had from post #88 onwards. Docking was just a pointer to the discussing we were having on China and India not being included in the ISS. For the first time I see a member of the ISS group saying in an official interview that they would like China and India included in the group.
It may be the first time you see it, but it has been going on for years.
As long as 5 years ago, ESA has been pushing for it. Particularly with India, South Korea and China (http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/02/03/esa-chief-propose-china-south-korea-india-join-iss-program/).

I don't know what the state of progress is with South Korea and India, but the partners seem to be open to them with the ISS extension (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/south-korea-india-to-begin-iss-partnership-talks-in-333406/).

It seems clear that ESA's lobbying efforts are not working when it comes to Chinese involvement.

I never said that other countries wouldn't want to cooperate, and I'm not surprised ESA wants China to be in. What I am, and have been saying (besides some of the logistical issues that need to be considered) is that there are larger political issues at this time that preclude it.



The present head of ESA also mentioned they were in discussion with China to have the European astronauts take part in the Chinese Space Station.
I'm not surprised.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-16, 09:06 PM
It may be the first time you see it, but it has been going on for years.
As long as 5 years ago, ESA has been pushing for it. Particularly with India, South Korea and China (http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/02/03/esa-chief-propose-china-south-korea-india-join-iss-program/).

I don't know what the state of progress is with South Korea and India, but the partners seem to be open to them with the ISS extension (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/south-korea-india-to-begin-iss-partnership-talks-in-333406/).

It seems clear that ESA's lobbying efforts are not working when it comes to Chinese involvement.

I never said that other countries wouldn't want to cooperate, and I'm not surprised ESA wants China to be in. What I am, and have been saying (besides some of the logistical issues that need to be considered) is that there are larger political issues at this time that preclude it.



I'm not surprised.

The push might become a shove as they seem to have found a loophole in the restrictions put on NASA to work with China.

http://www.space.com/29671-china-nasa-space-station-cooperation.html


Escape route

Logsdon said ESA, or even the Russian space agency, could serve as somewhat of a "middleman" to facilitate Chinese access to the International Space Station.

"If China were to fly its Shenzhou spacecraft to the space station, it would dock to the Russian port … and Putin's Russia has been making friendly noises towards China," Logsdon said.

Dordain has been a strong advocate for incorporating China into mainstream spaceflight activities, Logsdon said. Dordain's term of office ends June 30. The incoming leader of ESA is Johann-Dietrich Wörner, who is currently chairman of the German Aerospace Center's executive board.

"It is not clear either how much leverage Europe would have on this issue or whether Dordain's successor will share this view, but with U.S. backing, Europe could serve as an American surrogate," Logsdon said.

Logsdon said it is worth remembering that the U.S. congressional prohibition regarding China is on bilateral U.S.-Chinese cooperation.

"Starting the cooperation on the multilateral International Space Station may offer an escape route from current limitations," Logsdon said.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-16, 10:06 PM
The push might become a shove as they seem to have found a loophole in the restrictions put on NASA to work with China.
I don't think the push is a problem, and may even help things, but I hope it doesn't come to shove. That could be even worse than the current situation since Russian and US cooperation isn't as sound as it once was.

As noted in the article, the interested parties need to convince the politicians. Maybe the next president will have a different opinion and change things.

What it's going to take is convincing the politicians that space cooperation does not necessarily mean technology transfer. That's not easy in a world where they make token legislation without addressing the real issues. There is a general mistrust about China that's going around right now that the politicians are playing on. Add that to the sometimes shaky relations with Russia, any unilateral move by Russia could cause the same problems that were happening when Russia started talks about pulling out.

Maybe a Chinese astronaut taking place of a Russian slot wouldn't cause much problems, but I'm not sure about docking a Chinese craft.

So; Either US relationships with China need to improve, moves made to ensure that Chinese cooperation is not a threat (politician speak, not mine) or acquiescence by the partners to stay with the status quo. Otherwise the political situation may worsen.

Things may change quickly.
We have a presidential election coming up with the incumbent already reaching his term limit meaning a new presidency.
We have the upcoming prospects of US transportation to the station.
We have the on-again, off-again agreements of extending the station to 2024.
Any one of those things can shift the balance either way.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-16, 10:15 PM
I don't think the push is a problem, and may even help things, but I hope it doesn't come to shove. That could be even worse than the current situation since Russian and US cooperation isn't as sound as it once was.

As noted in the article, the interested parties need to convince the politicians. Maybe the next president will have a different opinion and change things.

What it's going to take is convincing the politicians that space cooperation does not necessarily mean technology transfer. That's not easy in a world where they make token legislation without addressing the real issues. There is a general mistrust about China that's going around right now that the politicians are playing on. Add that to the sometimes shaky relations with Russia, any unilateral move by Russia could cause the same problems that were happening when Russia started talks about pulling out.

Maybe a Chinese astronaut taking place of a Russian slot wouldn't cause much problems, but I'm not sure about docking a Chinese craft.

So; Either US relationships with China need to improve, moves made to ensure that Chinese cooperation is not a threat (politician speak, not mine) or acquiescence by the partners to stay with the status quo. Otherwise the political situation may worsen.

Things may change quickly.
We have a presidential election coming up with the incumbent already reaching his term limit meaning a new presidency.
We have the upcoming prospects of US transportation to the station.
We have the on-again, off-again agreements of extending the station to 2024.
Any one of those things can shift the balance either way.

Agree with what you say. I see the shove not coming from Russia but Europe where US politicians are more prone towards. It would be good if an ESA astronaut was to visit the Tiangong-2 space lab to soften the atmosphere so to speak.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-16, 10:42 PM
Agree with what you say. I see the shove not coming from Russia but Europe where US politicians are more prone towards.
The shove would have to come politically and not by using the "loophole". To use the loophole, they would need to go through Russia. And even then, they wouldn't might not get access to the "US side" of the station (as things stand now).

If anything, the push could come in the form of the ESA retreating from other cooperative efforts with the US. But that kind of stuff just pushes the tensions.



It would be good if an ESA astronaut was to visit the Tiangong-2 space lab to soften the atmosphere so to speak.
Good for the ESA. But I don't think it would have much effect on the current ISS situation.
Even that could go two ways.
It could push the US farther from ESA; or, it could scare the politicians into thinking that they would lose the support of ESA and rethink their plans.

But; I doubt that would happen with T-2. T-2 is more of a technology demonstrator for T-3. With a 20 day mission limitation, they will already be struggling for research time.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-17, 09:17 AM
But; I doubt that would happen with T-2. T-2 is more of a technology demonstrator for T-3. With a 20 day mission limitation, they will already be struggling for research time.

How do you get the 20 day mission limitation? I think the 20 days is the amount it will support without resupply. They are developing a cargo ship Tianzhou-1 which will dock with the T-2. There was speculation earlier the T-2 will have only one docking port, but now it is confirmed it will have 2 (http://www.parabolicarc.com/2015/03/09/china-space-update/) making longer stays possible.

T-1 was visited twice. I expect the T-2 to have at least 3 manned visits and one of them with a stay of at least one month.


Tiangong-2 will be larger than its predecessor and will resemble the Salyut space station first flown by the Soviet Union in the 1970’s. It will have docking ports on both ends.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-17, 02:41 PM
How do you get the 20 day mission limitation? I think the 20 days is the amount it will support without resupply.
That's exactly where I get it.
Whether it be replacing crew or sending up supplies, it requires a full launch schedule to keep it running. If that slips, it may cause some serious issues that a foreign visitor may compound.
If T-2 weren't such a technology testbed, I could see more science being done that a foreign visitor can share in.


T-1 was visited twice. I expect the T-2 to have at least 3 manned visits and one of them with a stay of at least one month.
That sounds about right. In fact, with 6 years between launches of T-2 and T-3, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-17, 02:46 PM
That sounds about right. In fact, with 6 years between launches of T-2 and T-3, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more.

T-3 to be launched in 2018 as the 1st segment of their space station. The space station to be completed by 2022.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-17, 04:43 PM
T-3 to be launched in 2018 as the 1st segment of their space station. The space station to be completed by 2022.
I stand corrected.
I found a lot of articles in the last couple of months saying it will launch in "2022", "2020-2022 timeframe", and "after 2020", but I did find (not as many) references to 2018.

That makes me wonder now about the T-2. If it's supposed to be a testbed for T-3, then that leaves less than 2 years for any negative findings to be corrected and incorporated into the T3.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-17, 10:21 PM
That makes me wonder now about the T-2. If it's supposed to be a testbed for T-3, then that leaves less than 2 years for any negative findings to be corrected and incorporated into the T3.

I see the test more to do with managing a long stay in space. As you said T-2 has enough support for a 20 day stay so it will require the cargo ship to supplement the supplies for a longer stay. It is the logistics they will be trying to iron out as well as how their astronauts cope with the longer stay.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-28, 03:34 PM
Some good news on cooperation between the US and China. NASA is not involved but if these initiatives produce positive results than the pressure will be on to allow NASA join the discussion.

http://www.leonarddavid.com/u-s-china-space-agenda-action-items/


“The agreement signed by Kerry reflects State Department activities with China, which are not prohibited by law,” Smith posted on her website.

“The State Department has a Bureau of Oceans and International and Scientific Affairs — often referred to as Oceans, Environment and Science (OES) — that oversees international civil space cooperation and presumably will be the official host of these [future U.S. - China space] meetings. If and how NASA will be involved apparently is yet to be determined,” Smith concluded.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-28, 05:22 PM
Hopefully this means we can put the title of this thread to rest.

7cscb
2015-Jun-28, 07:28 PM
Hopefully this means we can put the title of this thread to rest.

Like the USA is gonna make China a pardner? lol. As interested observers, the competition should be good for Space development.

I think this topic will remain open for 5-10 years. :confused:

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-28, 08:57 PM
Like the USA is gonna make China a pardner? lol. As interested observers, the competition should be good for Space development.

I think this topic will remain open for 5-10 years. :confused:

If you see how much China is investing on climate change technology, And how much they have invested in space technology, (see the list of new space vehicles/toys (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?154721-China-s-future-space-plans&p=2282249#post2282249) that is coming out from their R&D investment in the next 18 months), I see it happening within the next 3 years.

selvaarchi
2015-Jun-28, 09:15 PM
Another example of China working with another country (this time Belgian) in space and environmental science.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-06/24/c_134353175.htm


Increased collaboration between Belgium and China in the field of satellite technology can put both nations "at the forefront" of delivering vital information globally, according to State Secretary of Science Policy Elke Sleurs.

A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the Belgian Federal Science Policy Office (BELSPO) and China National Space Administration (CNSA) in the field of space sciences, technologies and applications was signed in Beijing on Tuesday.

In the pipeline is the Earth Observation program, which aims to design and build a joint Belgian-Chinese satellite mission "with the full potential to put both nations at the forefront in delivering exclusive agricultural and environmental information worldwide," said Sleurs in an exclusive interview with Xinhua.

7cscb
2015-Jun-28, 11:19 PM
If you see how much China is investing on climate change technology, And how much they have invested in space technology, (see the list of new space vehicles/toys (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?154721-China-s-future-space-plans&p=2282249#post2282249) that is coming out from their R&D investment in the next 18 months), I see it happening within the next 3 years.

I don't doubt China's efforts and success. But I think other factors come into play. USA and China are competitors. I think the likelihood of India and USA collaborating is much greater.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-28, 11:38 PM
Like the USA is gonna make China a pardner?
Partners? No. Cooperation? Yes.
The larger space powers aren't looking for partners (in the strictest sense), but it's the cooperation in space that is at hand.


As interested observers, the competition should be good for Space development.
Both cooperation and competition should be good.
Competition to push the technology, and cooperation to keep things running.


I think this topic will remain open for 5-10 years. :confused:
Maybe results will take that long, especially considering planning for upcoming projects.
But;
China is making headway with the US. Small ones, but it is forward.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jun-28, 11:43 PM
But I think other factors come into play. USA and China are competitors. I think the likelihood of India and USA collaborating is much greater.
Many factors. Many countries are already collaborating to varying degrees with many other countries.

What I see in the future is each larger power competing for their "edge" in the technology for both the competition and to keep their technology economies growing, but for the more established types of programs, each power supplying a more specialized service. But; that's a long way off yet because they are still growing.

selvaarchi
2015-Jul-23, 03:59 PM
I knew China was cooperating with ESA but with Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency as well was a surprise.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/23/c_134441218.htm


The SJ-10 project has been carried out under 11 institutes of the CAS and six Chinese universities in cooperation with the European Space Agency and Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency.

selvaarchi
2015-Jul-29, 02:50 PM
Posting two articles. 1st one from "ASIA TIMES" Talks about the politics of the US keeping out China from the ISS. Finishes with looking at a Asian space station with China, India and Japan joining forces. 2nd one from the "MAIL ONLINE" and more positive on China joining the ISS. In fact it hints at talks happening now to make it happen.

http://atimes.com/2015/06/asia-and-chinas-heavenly-palace-in-space/


The real story here is in what is missing — a substantially shared space program between China, Japan and India to pool resources, technology and skills. Japanese astronauts have experience of living and working long term in space, China has know-how to produce manned space modules (living quarters for orbiting astronauts) and India’s ISRO owns innovative, cost-effective technology to launch space rockets.

Yet the three countries seem determined to re-invent the space wheel the other already is running. The result is time travel backwards. Instead of being evolutionary upgrade of the ISS, China’s Tiangong is based more on the Russian space station Mir from the 1980s.

Asian co-operation becomes increasingly necessary as making space stations is no loose change. Mir cost an estimated $4.5 billion and the ISS has run up a bill for $150 billion. Logistics are mighty – mission control at Houston and Moscow needs 1,000 people at work 24/7 for every astronaut aboard ISS. Asia needs its version of the 22-member country European Space Agency, to take forward humanity’s pioneering footsteps outside Earth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3102679/Is-China-join-International-Space-Station-Historic-talks-taking-place-claims-Russian-cosmonaut.html


Chinese spacecraft may soon be allowed to dock with the International Space Station in what would signal an about-turn for Nasa.

The agency has previously been unable to work with China’s space agency owing to US policy, preventing them from becoming a partner on the ISS.

But it has been revealed that both Russia and the US are in discussion with the rising space power, and could allow its spacecraft to bring Chinese astronauts (taikonauts) to live on the station.

selvaarchi
2015-Aug-08, 09:57 AM
Looks like the China wall that the US government has erected is slowly giving way. The latest is "For the first time Chinese research to fly on NASA's space station". Hope this is the beginning of more cooperation between China and the US in Space.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/For-the-first-time-Chinese-research-to-fly-on-6422696.php?t=642e9c8e37438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium


Chinese scientists from the Beijing Institute of Technology, led by Professor Deng Yulin, will pay about $200,000 to NanoRacks for its services. This includes delivery of the experiment to the American side of the station in a SpaceX Dragon spacecraft and a berth in NanoRacks' orbiting laboratory facilities. In turn the company will send data back to the Chinese researchers.

selvaarchi
2015-Sep-29, 05:46 AM
There are more cracks appearing on the China wall that the US congress has put up. This time it is the US state department that has agreed to set up a formal Civil Space Dialogue. The first one was held on September 28, 2015, in Beijing, China. The next one will be in 2016.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2015/09/247394.htm


Pursuant to their shared goal of advancing civil space cooperation as agreed upon in the Strategic Track of the U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue in June 2015, the Government of the United States of America and the Government of China convened their inaugural Civil Space Dialogue on September 28, 2015, in Beijing, China.

The meeting was co-chaired by the Department of State for the United States and by the China National Space Administration for China. The convening of this first Civil Space Dialogue launches a new initiative to enhance cooperation between the two countries and provide better transparency on a variety of space related issues.

At the inaugural meeting, U.S. and Chinese officials exchanged information on respective space policies. They conducted discussions on further collaboration related to space debris and the long-term sustainability of outer space activities. Both sides also exchanged views on issues related to satellite collision avoidance.

selvaarchi
2015-Sep-30, 03:24 PM
Another crack might appear on the China wall if all parties give the go ahead for the Solar wind Magnetosphere Ionosphere Link Explorer (SMILE). It is a joint project between ESA and China but the US is looking at joining it through ESA and so navigate around the barrier of dealing directly with China.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-mulls-participation-in-sino-european-small-space-mission/


With a little help from the European Space Agency, NASA could soon find itself cooperating in a roundabout way with China on a small solar science mission, the director of the U.S. space agency’s Heliophysics Division said here Sept. 29.

NASA is mulling participation in the Sino-European heliophysics mission known as the Solar wind Magnetosphere Ionosphere Link Explorer (SMILE). The spacecraft would carry four instruments and study the interaction of solar winds — charged particles emanating from the sun — with Earth’s magnetosphere.

The mission would launch in 2021, assuming ESA and the Chinese Academy of Sciences approve it later this year. A final decision is expected as soon as November, Steven Clark, the new director of NASA’s Heliophysics Division, said here at NASA Headquarters in a presentation to the NASA Advisory Council (NAC) heliophysics subcommittee.

selvaarchi
2015-Oct-06, 01:52 AM
Looks like cooperation in space, between China and India has taken a turn for the better. After years of just talking, it has now progressed with 6 major areas identified for further action.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/India-China-talk-payload-hosting-space-missions/articleshow/49220970.cms


A year after India signed its first space co-operation agreement with China, scientists from Isro and the Chinese space agency have decided on six major areas of interest, including hosting of payloads on each other's satellites and inter-planetary missions.

Times of India (TOI) first reported in September 2014 that then ISRO chairman K Radhakrishnan had said a joint working group will work out the modalities of the co-operation.

Speaking to TOI in Sriharikota last month, senior scientist BK Dadwal, who heads the Indians in the joint working group, said: "Hosting of payloads is one of the six talking points." He pointed out the two agencies have identified six points of contacts who will come up with concrete plans for each subject.

"We don't know which Chinese payloads we'll launch on which of our satellites and vice-versa. These details have to be worked out but we've identified six broad areas," he said, adding, "The other areas of interest are earth observation, disaster management, space science and navigation."

selvaarchi
2015-Oct-13, 01:52 AM
Russia might have found another customer for its rocket engines - China.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-says-preparing-rocket-engine-deal-with-china/538631.html


Russia is preparing a deal to sell its highly capable rocket engines to Beijing in return for access to Chinese electronic components used in spacecraft construction, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Monday, the TASS news agency reported.

Discussing prospective Russian-Chinese economic projects at an expo in the Chinese city of Harbin, Rogozin said the two sides were pursuing cooperation in the field of spaceflight — a sector that both countries are keen to develop.

“We are talking about an agreement to supply Russian rocket engines [to China], and the reciprocal delivery of Chinese micro-electronics that we need for things like the construction of spacecraft,” Rogozin was quoted as saying.

selvaarchi
2015-Oct-13, 02:01 AM
This is refreshing news - "NASA chief says ban on Chinese partnerships is temporary". Hopefully the new US congress members will change the wording to allow cooperation with China.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/12/us-space-usa-china-idUSKCN0S61SU20151012


The United States should include China in its human space projects or face being left out of new ventures to send people beyond the International Space Station, NASA chief Charles Bolden said on Monday.

Since 2011, the U.S. space agency has been banned by Congress from collaborating with China, due to human rights issues and national security concerns.

China is not a member of the 15-nation partnership that owns and operates the station, a permanently staffed research laboratory that flies about 250 miles (400 km) above Earth, but Bolden says working China will be necessary in the future.

During a heads of space agencies panel at the International Astronautical Congress, he said he believed the ban was temporary.

"The reason I think that where we are today is temporary is because of a practical statement that we will find ourselves on the outside looking in, because everybody ... who has any hope of a human spaceflight program ... will go to whoever will fly their people,” Bolden said.

His comments were echoed by China.

“We certainly hope that this temporary timeframe can be shortened,” Xu Dazhe, administrator of the China National Space Agency, said through a translator. “China has no difficulties in our cooperation policies with other agencies.”

NEOWatcher
2015-Oct-13, 02:53 PM
This is refreshing news - "NASA chief says ban on Chinese partnerships is temporary". Hopefully the new US congress members will change the wording to allow cooperation with China.
NASA has been saying that for a while. Nothing has changed. This is nothing but a sound bite. The issues are much larger than the space program and a push from NASA is not going to change things.
Temporary? Most likely, but the political climate does not indicate any change for a while.

selvaarchi
2015-Oct-16, 08:30 PM
NASA head fears that NASA might be left out of future international space cooperation.

http://spacenews.com/china-and-the-moon-loom-large-yet-distant-for-bolden-woerner/


“Let me make a quick statement, for the U.S., mainly,” Bolden said. “If you ask for a show of hands on this podium, there would be only one that does not go up as far as who is talking to the Chinese space agency. That would be mine.

“The reason I believe that where we are today is temporary is because of a practical statement: Everybody up here who has any hopes of a human spaceflight program is talking. They want to get their astronauts and cosmonauts and taikonauts flown. And they’ll go to whoever will fly their people. If we [at NASA] are not collaborating with everybody, we’ll be on the outside looking in.”

selvaarchi
2015-Oct-20, 01:30 PM
The movie "The Martian" seems to have an effect on the press as to US-China cooperation. Two articles below that call for greater dialogue between the two countries.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-19/nasa-should-cooperate-with-china-in-space


Such objections, however, presume that the U.S. can somehow isolate China from a globalized scientific and industrial endeavor in which collaboration is the norm. Already, long-standing U.S. space partners like the European Space Agency and Russia are working with China’s National Space Agency in order to take advantage of the country’s funding largesse and ambition. This can have embarrassing consequences: NASA is so keen to join a proposed 2021 Sino-European solar-science mission that it’s devising ways to funnel its hardware and personnel through the European Space Agency, so as to follow the spirit of U.S. law.

That’s hardly in the interest of the U.S. space program, which has thrived in part because it has remained open to cooperating with nations around the world, including the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War (the Apollo-Soyuz collaboration) and Russia (the International Space Station). Remaining aloof means depriving U.S. scientists of rich opportunities for innovation and exploration.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Thought_provoking_plot_in_film_bespeaks_potential_ of_China_U_S__space_cooperation_999.html


The plot, despite being only part of the science fiction's storyline, provides a glance at the potential of China-U.S. cooperation, especially in high-tech fields including civil space.

In late September, government officials from China and the U.S. shared space exploration plans and discussed possible exploration cooperation, Earth observation, space science, space weather and civilian navigational satellites at a cooperation dialogue held in Beijing.

The dialogue, the first of its kind between the two countries, was part of the outcome of the 2015 China-U.S. Strategic Economic Dialogue in June.

A statement from China's State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense said the dialogue marked the establishment of a dialogue mechanism for civil space cooperation between China and the U.S. It said the dialogue has created a new channel for mutual understanding and trust.

selvaarchi
2015-Oct-29, 11:26 AM
NASA Administrator Charles Bolden still optimistic that the ban on working in China will be lifted. Though he added it might "take a generational change" for that to happen :D

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-10/29/c_134760208.htm


NASA Administrator Charles Bolden said Wednesday he's "optimistic" that his agency can work together with China eventually in the area of human spaceflight, despite a ban by the U.S. Congress on space cooperation between the two countries.

"I am optimistic because we do work with China, we work collaboratively with them with Congressional knowledge," Bolden said, citing collaborative research with the Chinese Academy of Sciences in the field of Earth science, including geodetics and glacial characterization in the Himalaya region.

"In the area of human spaceflight, I think it will come in time, ... but be patient," he told an event hosted by the Center for American Progress, a Washington-based think tank, noting that it might "take a generational change" for that to happen.

selvaarchi
2015-Nov-10, 02:47 PM
At least two American private enterprises are are planing to launch a constellation satellites to provide internet access to everyone. Now they might have competition from an unexpected source - China and Russia.

http://sputniknews.com/asia/20151108/1029772873/russia-china-orbit-satellite.html


Russian and Chinese experts are discussing the possibility of creating a global low earth orbit (LEO) satellite system called the Star of Happiness, director general of the Information Satellite Systems Nikolay Testoedov told RIA Novosti Sunday.

"Two first meetings with Chinese colleagues over the global project 'Star of Happiness' were conducted. We were offered cooperation on creating of a new low earth orbit group, consisting of more than a hundred of satellites for broadband access to the Internet and Internet of things <…>," Testoedov said.

selvaarchi
2015-Nov-19, 01:14 PM
NASA has been saying that for a while. Nothing has changed. This is nothing but a sound bite. The issues are much larger than the space program and a push from NASA is not going to change things.
Temporary? Most likely, but the political climate does not indicate any change for a while.

NASA Administrator Charles Bolden keeps pushing the point of cooperating with China. This time at a talk at the Council on Foreign Relations.

http://www.ibtimes.com/future-space-policy-built-international-cooperation-nasa-administrator-charles-bolden-2186627


Conspicuously absent from NASA's international partners is China. Politics have stymied this relationship following a ban included in the 2011 U.S. Federal budget. There are some loopholes that have allowed Bolden to collaborate with the Chinese Academy of Science on Earth science research. NASA also provided China with lunar imagery that helped the Chang'e 3 mission select a landing site. Air traffic management is another area of cooperation. "It’s critical to partner with China," Bolden said.

Space exploration is peaceful, but the area above Earth could become a source of contention as more countries send satellites into orbit. More partnerships would lead to a safer orbit.

"If we’re partnered with the Chinese, as we are with other nations, I think they would be much less prone to do something that puts low-Earth orbit in jeopardy, like, you know, anti-satellite stuff. Now, that may be a naïve thought, but I think that's what gives me hope, that the more we can have many nations working toward a common goal, the better off we’ll be," Bolden said.

selvaarchi
2015-Dec-08, 12:06 AM
The latest issue of The Space Review has an article calling for greater cooperation between the US and China on space .

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2878/1


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

selvaarchi
2015-Dec-18, 07:41 AM
If things keep going at this rate, NASA might be the only party not allowed to talk to the Chinese (thanks to the Republicans in Congress ).

The State Department have a dialogue with the Chinese which covers space activities. Now we have another organisation which is involved in space activities also doing the same with a Chinese organisation.

http://www.psi.edu/news/press-releases

The Planetary Science Institute signed a cooperation agreement with Qian Xuesen Laboratory of Space Technology (Qian Xuesen Lab) today to advance their mutual interests in facilitating the open-ended expansion of the exploration of the solar system and to use the knowledge thus gained in supporting the expansion of human activity beyond the Earth. Both institutions also wish to advance their common interest in communicating to the public the knowledge and benefits gained through robotic and human exploration of the solar system.

The Lab is named after Qian Xuesen (Hsue-Shen Tsien, used in the U.S.), who is one of the founders of the Cal Tech Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Qian Xuesen Lab is a part of the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC), which has been involved in China’s Chang’E missions to the Moon and China’s human space program.

PSI CEO and Director Mark V. Sykes signed the agreement along with Chen Hong, Director of Qian Xuesen Lab.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

selvaarchi
2016-Jan-14, 09:05 AM
That doesn't change US and China space relationships. Maybe it puts some political pressures on the situation but this doesn't change things.

Besides, what you were quoting was about docking. Even if China is invited to participate, it probably still won't be with hardware. By the time they develop compatibility, testing and certification, there won't be much life left in the station.

Well just came across a piece of information that makes testing the docking process much easier. We know that the Chinese modules can dock with each other. Now this new information say the docking specification the Chinese used for the docking mechanism is based on " passive APAS-89/95 docking connectors designed by Russian RKK Energia for joining American and Russian modules of ISS".

http://www.satprnews.com/2016/01/09/tiangong-2-confirmed-for-2016/


It was equipped in passive APAS-89/95 docking connectors designed by Russian RKK Energia for joining American and Russian modules of ISS and giving opportunity for Space Shuttle docking. Main objective of this mission was successful rendez vous and docking with manned spacecraft. First crew docked (docking was performed automatically) on board of Shenzhou 9 spacecraft on 18 June 2012 for six days. On 24 June 2012 crew performed manual separation from Tiangong-1 and returned to Earth. Second mission took place one year later on 15 June 2013. Shenzhou 10 performed successful docking and it supposed to be last mission before planned for second half of 2013 deorbitation of Tiangong-1.

selvaarchi
2016-Jan-21, 04:07 PM
Another example of a country choosing to launch their satellite on a Chinese Rocket.

http://www.arabnews.com/saudi-arabia/news/868266?quicktabs_stat2=1


The International Conference on Remote Sensing concluded in Riyadh on Wednesday and the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST), which sponsored the event, announced plans to launch a new satellite in cooperation with China which will upgrade its remote sensing facilities and services in the Kingdom.
Badr Al-Swaidan from the Institute of Space and Aviation Research of KACST said the city had completed preparation for the components of the Saudi satellite (Saudi SAT 5B) which is locally made. It will be launched by the Chinese space rocket (Long March 2D) to support remote sensing services in the Kingdom.
The project is within the framework of cooperation between the Kingdom and China in scientific fields which also includes the establishment of a genetic studies project.

selvaarchi
2016-Feb-12, 11:37 AM
Singapore is developing jointly with China integrated space capabilities in the area of navigational satellite technology.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-partners/2506046.html


As part of the Republic's push towards developing space capabilities, the Singapore Space and Technology Association (SSTA) and Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) and Location Based Service (LBS) Association of China (GLAC) signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to formalise their partnership for industry development on Thursday (Feb 11).

The partnership aims to advance the development of integrated space capabilities in the area of navigational satellite technology.

For instance, the partnership will include co-building a common platform for navigational satellite experts from both associations for knowledge sharing, conducting joint research projects and to identify opportunities to commercialise such projects together.

selvaarchi
2016-Apr-08, 08:52 AM
The Chinese are working with ESA on more then one space related project.

http://gbtimes.com/china/china-esa-oil-experiment-and-running-space-cooperation-blossoms


Antonio has been travelling regularly to China over the last few years, and believes that China’s capabilities are very well developed and advanced.

“We in Western Europe can learn and benefit a lot from the knowledge of our Chinese colleagues,” Antonio Verga notes. “And I hope this cooperation will have a follow-on in the future”.

More retrievable satellites are expected to be launched or developed across the period of China’s 13th Five Year Plan (2016-2020), which could provide such opportunities.

In other areas future collaborative projects are already being worked on, namely the space-weather observatory mission SMILE, which is entering the engineering phase this year.

At the same time, the new Director-General of ESA, Johann-Dietrich Woerner, has been keen to push for more open international cooperation in space, particularly with regard to his vision for a establishing a ‘Moon Village’ at the lunar south pole.

publiusr
2016-Apr-09, 06:48 PM
Here is a proposal I like--co-orbiting stations:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2944/1

Like from GRAVITY

Solfe
2016-Apr-09, 06:53 PM
I suspect it is too late for China to stop with their own program. The idea of two space stations seems like a nice plan. Perhaps that will promote the idea of an excursion module, for visiting neighbors. Better bring a cup of sugar or a bottle of wine.

publiusr
2016-Apr-09, 07:26 PM
maybe a tether some aerogel slabs to scoop up debris--or not--it would snag--cause drag, etc.

selvaarchi
2016-Apr-10, 12:33 PM
This came out the blue to me. China and India to cooperate to build and launch a satellite for the BRICS nations (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/india-china-set-eyes-on-joint-satellite-constellation-for-brics/articleshow/51763274.cms). China and India are part of the grouping, together with Brazil, Russia and South Africa. Hopefully this will lead to cooperation on manned space flight, China Space Station and joint moon missions.

Solfe
2016-Apr-10, 05:02 PM
It would be interesting to see Brazil back in space. They started strong and just let things go. Weird.

IceLizard
2016-Apr-10, 07:02 PM
This came out the blue to me. China and India to cooperate to build and launch a satellite for the BRICS nations (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/india-china-set-eyes-on-joint-satellite-constellation-for-brics/articleshow/51763274.cms). China and India are part of the grouping, together with Brazil, Russia and South Africa. Hopefully this will lead to cooperation on manned space flight, China Space Station and joint moon missions.

Seems very whimsical and sketchy. China is pushing ahead with its whole CHEOS constellation (gaofen satellites and the like), so will it be data-sharing or expansion through cooperation on things like CBERS involving Brazil?

selvaarchi
2016-Apr-10, 08:47 PM
Seems very whimsical and sketchy. China is pushing ahead with its whole CHEOS constellation (gaofen satellites and the like), so will it be data-sharing or expansion through cooperation on things like CBERS involving Brazil?

The mere fact they are talking is a positive sign to me. This will have to be driven by either China or India or both as they are the only ones within the five to have the financial clout to carry it out.

IceLizard
2016-Apr-10, 08:54 PM
The mere fact they are talking is a positive sign to me.

Absolutely! For a number of reasons, on Earth as well as in space.

selvaarchi
2016-Apr-14, 03:01 PM
The Chinese are working with ESA on more then one space related project.

http://gbtimes.com/china/china-esa-oil-experiment-and-running-space-cooperation-blossoms

The new Director-General of ESA, Johann-Dietrich Woerner, who is on a visit to China has called for his vision of 'space without borders' (http://gbtimes.com/china/esa-head-calls-space-without-borders-during-first-china-visit).

selvaarchi
2016-Jun-24, 02:09 PM
ESA has managed to get NASA and China in the same team :clap:

http://gbtimes.com/china/nasa-and-chinese-astronauts-set-work-together-historic-mission-esa


Last year’s blockbuster The Martian famously depicted NASA and Chinese astronauts setting off together for Mars, leaving many viewers wondering why the two powers can’t cooperate in space for the common benefit of human exploration.

Such collaboration has not been possible so far. China has only recently emerged as a player in human spaceflight, and NASA has been largely barred by legislation from bilateral activities with China’s space authorities over security concerns.

But despite this state of affairs, American and Chinese astronauts are for the first time set to work side-by-side, thanks to a multilateral mission set up by the European Space Agency (ESA) which starts on Friday.

ESA CAVES (Cooperative Adventure for Valuing and Exercising human behaviour and performance Skills) is an annual two-week-long analogue mission which simulates spaceflight here on Earth and helps prepare astronauts for working safely and effectively in multicultural teams and apply their training in a space-like context.

selvaarchi
2016-Jun-27, 04:02 PM
The Chinese and Russians have laid the foundation for further cooperation in space projects between the two nations.

http://sputniknews.com/world/20160625/1041954373/russia-china-space.html


Russia and China signed a pact on Saturday that sets out legal framework for protecting their rights to sensitive space technologies in joint projects, Russian state space agency Roscosmos said.

Roscosmos chief Igor Komarov and the China National Space Administration (CNSA)’s Xu Dazhe signed the pact during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to Beijing.

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-04, 11:02 PM
The French are cooperating with China on two space missions - the China France Oceanography Satellite (CFOSAT) which is to be launched in 2018, and the Space-based multi-band astronomical Variable Objects Monitor (SVOM) which is to be launched in 2021.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-07/04/c_135488045.htm


Le Gall said there are three challenges in today's aerospace industry, namely innovation, climate and exploration of science.

France and China have already started their cooperation through CFOSAT and SVOM to address the latter two domains, he added.

Le Gall stressed the two countries should look at "how we can work on innovation" in order to have satellites that are more efficient but less expensive.

He reaffirmed that an international cooperation is absolutely a must to make more progress in space activities.

"I'm convinced that the next great steps will be taken through international cooperation," Le Gall said.

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-05, 10:49 PM
Poland has signed a space partnership deal with China.

http://spacenews.com/poland-signs-space-partnership-deal-with-china-eyes-increased-industry-cooperation/


“The cooperation between the Polish Space Agency and the Chinese National Space Administration will be related to three fields: space research, exchange and use of satellite data to develop our scientific knowledge on Earth, including observation and monitoring of climate change and the environment, and the development of space technology, including in the field of telecommunication,” professor Marek Banaszkiewicz, the president of POLSA, told SpaceNews. “The development of space technologies is one of the fields of cooperation between POLSA and the CNSA, so we will certainly discuss transfers of technology from the Chinese space sector.”

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-17, 12:36 AM
China and Russia are discussing joint outer space exploration. This includes the moon and Mars. It also covers China getting Russian rocket engines.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/07/14/china-and-russia-discuss-joint-outerspace-exploration/#de347c929029



China and Russia are discussing joint cooperation in outer-space exploration, including missions to the Moon and even Mars , according to a statement by Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on Wednesday.

“Yesterday, we (Rogozin and Vice-Premier of China’s State Council Wang Yang) worked for three and a half hours, discussing cooperation in the nuclear sphere and cooperation in the issues of interaction between our space agencies where there are such large projects as the deliveries of rocket engines, and cooperation in navigation systems,” the Russian vice-premier said.

He made his remarks during a talk with the heads of Russian regions and Chinese provinces and the managers of companies from both countries. The expo is an annual industrial exhibition held since 2014 within the framework of the Harbin Trade Fair.

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-29, 09:55 AM
More on China's agreement with the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs (UNOOSA) to open the country's future space station for science experiments and astronauts from UN member states.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chinas_Agreement_with_United_Nations_to_Help_Devel oping_Countries_Get_Access_to_Space_999.html


According to a spokesperson from the China Manned Space Agency (CMSA), this cooperation heralds better accessibility to space for developing countries.

"The agreement will provide exciting opportunities to further build the space capacity of developing countries and increase awareness of the benefits human space technology can bring to humankind, and thus to promote the achievement of the sustainable development goals," Aimin Niu, CMSA spokesperson, told Astrowatch.net.

In particular, this agreement means that UNOOSA and CMSA will work together to give UN member states an opportunity to conduct space experiments onboard China's future space station, as well as to provide flight opportunities for astronauts and payload engineers

selvaarchi
2016-Sep-23, 05:22 PM
NASA’s Bolden quietly visited China last month, despite restrictions on cooperation. Even with these high level visit, Andrew Jones does not see Congress lifting the restrictions on NASA working with China.

http://gbtimes.com/china/nasas-bolden-quietly-visited-china-last-month-despite-restrictions-cooperation


Despite the meetings and small steps, open cooperation between NASA and CAS or any other body involved in China’s space program does not appear possible as things stand due to US policy.

Bolden has been outspoken in his view that NASA should be working with China in various areas of space exploration, claiming at the 66th International Astronautical Congress last October that the US could be left “on the outside looking in,” if NASA is not collaborating with everybody. But he is powerless to change the political realities.

Though Frank Wolf, the author of the above language inserted into and retained in appropriations bills since 2011, has retired, his successor Representative John Culberson – a space enthusiast and strong proponent for an ambitious NASA mission to Europa – has followed in staunchly opposing the US working with China.

An end to Republican control of the House of Representatives and US Senate following elections in November could potentially see the language stripped from future bills, clearing the way to space cooperation with China, but this remains just one issue affecting NASA’s ability to building international relationships.

A report released in May by the NASA Office of Inspector General found that the agency faces significant challenges to its use of international partnerships, including lengthy bureaucratic procedures and strict export control regulations.

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-03, 02:50 PM
NASA’s Bolden quietly visited China last month, despite restrictions on cooperation. Even with these high level visit, Andrew Jones does not see Congress lifting the restrictions on NASA working with China.

http://gbtimes.com/china/nasas-bolden-quietly-visited-china-last-month-despite-restrictions-cooperation

Looks like Bolden's visit to China has produced a softening on the embargo on NASA working with China.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_China_to_collaborate_on_Air_Traffic_Managemen t_Research_999.html


NASA and the Chinese Aeronautical Establishment (CAE) have signed a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on aeronautics research that will advance air transportation automation for U.S. and Chinese aviation operations in China.

The details of the agreement were discussed during NASA Administrator Charles Bolden's visit to China in August, when he met with officials from CAE and the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC).

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-19, 05:05 AM
As things stand, it will be a long time before the US will work with China but the voices asking for a change are getting louder in the US. Here is one view.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a23402/will-nasa-ever-work-with-china/


It's been a banner year for China's spacefaring ambitions. The country launched satellites to test quantum communications and search for dark matter, built the world's largest radio telescope, and launched a new space station into orbit (though its old one is about to come crashing back to Earth). It seems that the country is well on its way to becoming the "space giant" its president envisioned in a speech earlier this year.

Getting to this point has been a long time coming. After half a century of watching Russia and the US go from deadly space rivals to reluctant space partners, China saw its emergence as a global superpower written in the stars. Yet the last few decades have seen the Chinese cut out of major multinational orbital projects like the International Space Station.

Now, as China's space aspirations have become increasingly sophisticated, established space players such as the European Union and Russia have sought to collaborate with China on future missions. The United States, on the other hand, remains staunchly approached to collaborating with China. Can the two countries ever learn to play nice in microgravity? And what happens if they don't?

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-21, 12:29 AM
China's reply to the negative western press it has got to its recent advances in space.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1012664.shtml


China's efforts to build the nation into a space power through its manned space program and space probe have been made in the spirit of peace.

However, coverage by Western media of China's successful launch of the manned spacecraft Shenzhou-11 on Monday alluded to the project's military background.

Shenzhou-11, China's sixth manned spacecraft, docked with space lab Tiangong-2 on Wednesday, bringing China's ambitious space station program one step closer to reality.

Orbiting space lab Tiangong-2 and Shenzhou-11 manned spacecraft will mark the first time that Chinese astronauts will stay in orbit for a medium-length mission.

Western media outlets were quick to comment on the mission's supposed military elements. Mentions of China's commitment to international cooperation and sharing lessons from its manned space program with other countries, especially developing countries, were absent in much of the coverage.

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-21, 12:37 AM
At least one renowned American space scientist is looking forward to future space-related US-China collaborations.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1012665.shtml



Stone cited the International Space Station, a collaboration between the United States, Russia, Europe, Japan, and Canada, as an example of international cooperation in human space flight.

Unfortunately, at this moment, there is no China-US collaboration in space flight, although scientists from the two nations are collaborating broadly in astronomy and astrophysics -- exploring the "knowledge frontier" together, but from the ground.

For example, academic institutions from the US, Canada, China, India and Japan are collaborating to build the next-generation giant ground-based telescope, the Thirty Meter Telescope.

But the TMT project has been delayed, yielding nerve-racking uncertainties. Despite this, Stone told Xinhua that he continues to look forward to future space-related US-China collaborations.

publiusr
2016-Oct-22, 06:29 PM
I'd like to see some of their bigger modules docked at ISS if possible.

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-25, 09:11 PM
Even as the US congress keeps legislation barring NASA from using funds “to develop, design, plan, promulgate, implement or execute a bilateral policy, program, order, or contract of any kind to participate, collaborate, or coordinate bilaterally in any way with China or any Chinese-owned company” – or even host Chinese officials – unless specifically authorised by US Congress, the US state department has organized a third meeting of US-China Space Dialogue in China in 2017.

http://gbtimes.com/china/united-states-china-hold-space-dialogue-working-around-congressional-barriers


The second meeting of the US-China Space Dialogue took place in Washington DC last week, as part of efforts to work around a US Congressional block to cooperation between the two countries’ space agencies.

The meeting was hosted by the US Department of State, involving representatives from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, US Geological Survey, the Federal Aviation Administration, and the Department of Defense meeting with officials from the China National Space Administration (CNSA) on October 20.

The two sides exchanged updates on space policies and programs, discussed Earth and space science, space and terrestrial weather, tackling space debris and the long-term sustainability of outer space activities, according to a State Department media note.

Established in 2015, the dialogue, “enhances cooperation between the two countries, promotes responsible behavior in space, and encourages greater transparency and openness on a variety of space-related issues”, but few details of the meetings have been released.

Notably NASA Administrator Charles Bolden was in attendance, despite Congressional barriers to engaging Chinese state entities, with the Dialogue offering a way of working around such road blocks.

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-28, 04:32 PM
This article is about the transition from the present president to the new president and the impact on NASA. The reason I have included it in this thread is what is said towards the end of the article. If true then come next year we can close this thread:clap:

http://spacenews.com/election-only-the-start-of-a-long-term-nasa-transition/


Both also supported a potential role for China on the ISS. “I’d invite China on board the space station, so you have cooperation in orbit rather than hostility,” Walker said, acknowledging there are broader policy issues about working with China. “The fact is, we’re probably in a position right now where we can learn from China as much as they would potentially learn from us.”

Those shared positions, deLeon suggested, could be a throwback to an earlier era of politics. “There’s no reason why we can’t find bipartisanship, particularly in something like space exploration and commercial space, because it’s good for the country,” he said. “It’s not a partisan issue.”

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-28, 04:45 PM
China has been handicapped in trying to break into the lucrative commercial satellite market due to U.S. components embedded in so many of the world’s commercial telecommunications satellites. This is due to a U.S. government ban on the export of U.S. satellites or satellite parts to China.

China has managed to sell Chinese made satellites to new developing countries and now they have made a breakthrough by selling to a commercial company in Thailand.

http://spacenews.com/china-wins-breakthrough-contract-for-thaicom-telecommunications-satellite/


China Great Wall Industry Corp.’s win of a contract for a high-throughput Ka-band broadband satellite for Thailand’s Thaicom is a breakthrough deal for China’s satellite export industry, which up to now has relied on domestic demand and special-circumstances orders, mainly from emerging-market governments.

The contract, from Thaicom subsidiary International Satellite Co. Ltd., is valued at $208 million covering the satellite’s construction and launch, continuing a China Great Wall Industry Corp. (CGWIC) practice of bundling satellite construction and launch contracts.

Scheduled for launch in late 2019, the satellite will carry a Ka-band payload with 37 GHz of capacity, which Thaicom said is equivalent to a throughput of 53 gigabits per second. It will cover a large swath of East and South East Asia, including South Korea and Japan.

selvaarchi
2016-Oct-31, 01:09 PM
The "Union of Concerned Scientist" has an article on the Chinese/US space relationship and covers the latest congressional hearing on China's space programme.

http://allthingsnuclear.org/gkulacki/sputnik-revisited


One of the questions discussed during the hearing was whether to permit cooperation in space between China and the United States. Science is an inherently collaborative enterprise. Knowledge grows faster when you divide the labor of learning and share the results. That’s especially true in space science because the satellites used to observe and measure the space environment are expensive to develop and deploy. China has the economic and technical resources to make important contributions to our understanding of the Earth, the solar system and the wider universe in which we live. So it is not surprising that many US space scientists would welcome opportunities for greater cooperation with colleagues in China.

Unfortunately, the US Congress restricts scientific cooperation with China in space, in part because of concerns that US scientists might share knowledge or technology with military applications.

Space technology is inherently dual use. Satellites that observe the Earth’s atmosphere, lands, and oceans are valuable to farmers and the soldiers they feed. Communication satellites may carry military commands right along side the TV signals for Monday Night Football. GPS satellites can help guide you to grandma’s house or guide a missile to its target. So Congressional concern about US-China cooperation is appropriate.

But the testimony given during the hearing did not address this dual use problem. It did not even discuss Chinese satellite technology.

Instead, the hearing focused on the history of human space flight, one of the few areas of space activity with no demonstrable military applications. Yet the consensus of the witnesses and most of the members of Congress who invited their testimony was that—although China’s human space flight program is just now reaching milestones the United States passed in the 1970s—Chinese progress in human space flight is a serious threat to US national power and international prestige. Through their eyes, cooperating in space with a geopolitical competitor appeared ill-advised.

selvaarchi
2016-Nov-12, 05:04 AM
An article on the topic of this thread 😊

http://www.asianscientist.com/2016/08/columns/final-frontiers-the-china-space-friends-club/

The US refuses to collaborate with China on space missions, but no matter: the Asian powerhouse has the rest of the world in its corner.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

selvaarchi
2016-Nov-16, 02:26 AM
Another article saying what the above article says - "Other nations, though, aren’t similarly encumbered by cooperation. “While we don’t work with China, you know who does? Everybody else,” said Chirag Parikh, former director of space policy at the White House National Security Council, in an Oct. 20 talk at Rice University."

http://www.spacenewsmag.com/feature/different-orbits-is-china-a-competitor-colleague-or-neither/

The mission provides another reminder of China’s ambitions in space, with the country making advances both in human and robotic spaceflight at a steady, but not rapid, pace. In the United States, those activities raise questions about whether China represents a threat to American preeminence in space or a missed opportunity for cooperation.

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selvaarchi
2016-Nov-21, 03:49 PM
This and attached video shows China and ESA are working on manned space exploration and ESA will most likely the first foreign astronauts to visit the CSS.

http://gbtimes.com/china/shenzhou-11-crew-send-space-video-greetings-esa-astronaut-iss


China's Shenzhou-11 mission crew have sent their greetings to European Space Agency astronaut Thomas Pesquet in a recorded video message from the Tiangong-2 space lab.

Hours before China's Shenzhou-11 crew made their descent to Earth on Friday after a month aboard Tiangong-2, ESA's Pesquet was launched aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft to the International Space Station (ISS).

Mission commander Jing Haipeng, who turned 50 during his 32-day in space, said he was very pleased to meet his counterparts in this 'special way', and noted the recent rich cooperation between the Astronaut Centre of China and the European Astronaut Centre.

selvaarchi
2017-Feb-05, 08:38 AM
ESA's latest astronaut has hopes of working in the Chinese Space Station.

http://gbtimes.com/china/esas-newest-astronaut-looks-cooperation-chinese-space-station


The European Space Agency's new astronaut recruit Matthias Maurer has welcomed the idea of cooperating with China to show how spaceflight can bring the world together.

With a background in materials science engineering, he was among 10 finalists for ESA’s astronaut selection in 2009 and is now undergoing basic training in the European Astronaut Centre in Cologne, Germany.

In an interview on Thursday, Maurer told Deutsche Welle that he will be competing with his new colleagues for a seat on a mission to the International Space Station (ISS) around 2020.

Speaking at ESA’s operations centre in Darmstadt, he also noted that there is also potential involvement in the future Chinese Space Station:

"There are also new opportunities, like the Chinese space station which will be ready by 2022. We are working towards a cooperation with the Chinese, although that still needs to be established.

selvaarchi
2017-Feb-21, 02:14 PM
There has been talks of India and China cooperating in space but it was talk till now!!!! In India's recording breaking launch of 104 satellites in one launch, one of the satellites was from China.

http://gbtimes.com/china/chinese-cubesat-hitches-ride-indias-record-breaking-launch-104-satellites


India and China are traditional geopolitical rivals and fought a short war in 1962. Border disputes mean that a Line of Actual Control (LAC) is used to demarcate Indian and Chinese territory.

More recently in a time of growing engagement, India and China agreed in 2014 to cooperate "in the exploration and use of outer space for peaceful purposes".

Today's launch indicates a measure of cooperation and interaction at lower levels.

selvaarchi
2017-Feb-22, 09:59 PM
The Italian Space Agency (ASI) and the China Manned Space Agency (CMSA) signed an agreement of cooperation on human spaceflight activities.

http://www.asi.it/en/news/agreement-italy-china


The agreement was signed by Roberto Battiston, President of ASI, and Wang Zhaoyao, Director general of CMSA. The scientific collaboration will focus on the biomedical and physiological consequences during long-term stays in space and long-duration missions and on the high-priority technology needs for human spaceflight.

“Space is the new and limitless Silk Road and the international collaboration in science and technology is crucial”, said the ASI President Roberto Battiston who underlined the long tradition of excellent scientific cooperation in several sectors between Italy and China. “This agreement is very important for whole European scientific space community to be prepared for future human exploration in the Solar System. Only a common wealth of knowledge can make us advance in space exploration in a successful way.

The two agencies will establish a co-chaired Joint Cooperation Committee (JCC), that will meet regularly and at least once a year in order to assess the status of the cooperation and to analyze proposals for conducting specific joint activities in the Human Spaceflight field.

selvaarchi
2017-Mar-20, 03:01 PM
The European organization, EUMETSAT, has expended their cooperation with China.

http://www.eumetsat.int/website/home/News/DAT_3411424.html


Today, Alain Ratier, Director-General of EUMETSAT and Wu Yanhua, Vice Administrator of the China National Space Administration (CNSA) signed an agreement that provides the policy framework for the continuation and expansion of EUMETSAT’s cooperation with China on monitoring the atmosphere, oceans and climate from space.

Timbuctoo
2017-Mar-22, 09:50 PM
I don't think the US will ever cooperate with China unless the Chinese space program detaches from its military.

selvaarchi
2017-Jun-26, 10:37 AM
China has just sent its 2nd cubesat on an Indian rocket.

http://gbtimes.com/china/chinese-cubesat-takes-ride-indias-pslv-c38-launch

"A cubesat developed by the National University of Defence Technology (NUDT) in Changsha, China was one of the passengers on India's PSLV-C38 rocket launched early on Friday.

NUDTSat, a 2 kilogram 2-unit CubeSat, is part of the part of the QB50 constellation, an international network of 50 CubeSats for multi-point, in-situ measurements in the lower thermosphere and re-entry research.

Launch from Sriharikota spaceport went ahead as expected at 9.29am local time on Friday (03.59 UTC; 23:59 EDT Thursday), carrying ISRO's Cartosat-2E Earth observation satellite and 30 nano satellites.

NUDTSat was placed into a sun-synchronous orbit at an altitude of 500 km, and has an expected lifetime of 3 months."

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selvaarchi
2017-Aug-20, 01:45 PM
The second meeting of the Sino-Russian working group on space cooperation looked at joint programs in the 2018-2022 timeframe.

http://tass.com/science/960271


Russia and China are going to broaden cooperation in the field of space operations commercialization, Denis Lyskov, Chief Executive Officer of Russian launching services operator Glavkosmos, told TASS on Monday.

selvaarchi
2017-Aug-24, 12:41 AM
The day we might see European astronauts visit a Chinese Space Station has improved by the joint training in China.

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-08/22/content_30944263.htm

"The space agencies in China and Europe signed an agreement in May 2015 to boost collaboration.

Pal Hvistendahl of the European agency has said the objective of the cooperation is "to fly a European astronaut on the Chinese space station" that is scheduled to enter operation in 2022."

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selvaarchi
2017-Aug-24, 02:11 PM
The Europeans were the first foreign nationals to train with the Chinese astronauts. There is now over 10 countries that would like the Chinese to train their nationals so that they will be able to partake in the Chinese Space Station. As it take a minimum of 4 years to train an astronaut, now is the time to start training to be able to take part when the CSS station becomes operational in 2022.

http://www.china.org.cn/china/2017-08/23/content_41458490.htm


China is willing to help other nations select and train astronauts and will gladly cooperate with them in its space station program, a senior official of the China Manned Space Agency said on Tuesday.

Yang Liwei, deputy head of the agency and the first Chinese in the space, said more than 10 countries, mostly developing have asked for China's assistance in selecting and training astronauts.

They hope to prepare astronauts for prospective joint missions to China's future space station, he said.

"It normally takes about four years to train a Chinese astronaut. The time needed to train a qualified foreign astronaut will vary based on each candidate's individual situation," Yang said. "Considering that we will have our own space station in about four years, now is the time to begin such training for nations interested in joining our space station program."

China welcomes other parties to join the program for mutual benefit and the peaceful use of outer space, he said.

selvaarchi
2017-Sep-02, 02:43 PM
American law prohibits NASA from working with China but it does not stop private American companies from doing so.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/33514464776c6d636a4e6e62684a4856/share_p.html


JEFF MANBER CEO, NANORACKS "We are talking not only with the Beijing institute to do another project --we are talking with other organizations. And I think in the next six months we will do some follow-ups." It took NanoRacks several years to make it onto the I-S-S. In June, a Space-X rocket carried a DNA experiment from researchers at the Beijing Institute to the International Space Station. No small accomplishment- considering there is a federal law that bans NASA -the U.S. Space Agency-- from working with the Chinese. "These are the places we have customers." NanoRacks is cooperating with 30-countries -including China. The company CEO points out there is no law keeping China from working with a PRIVATE U.S. space firm a process made easier considering NanoRacks has its own hardware aboard the ISS.

selvaarchi
2017-Sep-09, 03:44 PM
More examples on how China is working with the UK in space.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-09/08/c_136595023.htm


With China's growing investment in space science and technology and its increasing market demand for satellite applications, countries like Britain are looking to work more closely with China in the area.

"China is a huge country and satellites are perfect in providing the data unique for agriculture, for climate, for air quality," Chris Lee, head of International Space Partnerships at UK Space Agency, told Xinhua.

He made the remark on the sideline of the 12th UK-China Space Workshop on Space Science and Technology, which was held in Edinburgh this week.

"From China, we will then have an opportunity to take those capabilities out to the rest of the world. So if I were to pick a particular area. I think it would be the applications of satellites," said Lee. "And because the UK has some key strength in this area as well, I think we are natural partners in focusing on how you use satellite data rather than how you build satellites themselves."

The two sides have made efforts to promote satellite applications in some specific areas.

selvaarchi
2017-Sep-29, 04:26 AM
China is opening the door for other countries to participate in its space programme through the United Nations Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-09/28/c_136644880.htm


China is an active member of the United Nations Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space and is impressive in opening its space missions to other countries, said Simonetta Di Pippo, Director of the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs (UNOOSA).

Di Pippo made the remarks when having an interview with Xinhua on Wednesday during the 68th International Astronautical Congress (IAC), which opened on Monday in Adelaide, South Australia.

Di Pippo said China as an active member of the Committee has been attending with very solid delegations and also in term of technological expertise, "presenting a lot of new initiatives and ideas."

One of the new initiatives is the Belt and Road Initiative, proposed by China in 2013, aiming to build trade and infrastructure networks connecting Asia with Europe and Africa on and beyond the ancient Silk Road routes. It comprises the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road.

selvaarchi
2017-Oct-21, 11:17 AM
China and France to launch a joint satellite next year to for waves forecast and monitoring, as well as research in floating ice, polar glacier and ocean dynamics.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-10/20/c_136694370.htm


The first satellite jointly developed by the Chinese and French space agencies will be launched from China in the second half of 2018.

The China-French Oceanic Satellite is being tested in a Beijing-based assembly testing center of the China National Space Administration, said the administration Friday.

The 700-kilogram satellite will be primarily used for waves forecast and monitoring, as well as research in floating ice, polar glacier and ocean dynamics.

The satellite will carry a wave-scatterometer spectrometer developed by the French space agency and a wind-measurement scatterometer by Chinese scientists. It will be sent into space by a Chinese Long March carrier rocket.

selvaarchi
2017-Nov-10, 01:54 PM
Stephen Hawking wants China to join the Starshot program.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/tech/2017-11/08/content_34261112.htm


Stephen Hawking wants humans to travel to the stars, like in the science fiction television series Star Trek, created by Gene Roddenberry, with his Breakthrough Starshot program and is seeking China's help to make it a reality.

The ambitious program involves building tiny, light-propelled robotic spacecraft that could visit nearby stars in short journeys.

"Breakthrough Starshot is an opportunity for man to make early forays into outer space, with a view to probing and weighing the possibilities of colonisation," said Hawking in a video address at Tencent's We Summit, an annual gathering where luminaries share ideas on science and technology.

Breakthrough Starshot has been initiated by Stephen Hawking and Russian entrepreneur Yuri Milner and aims to build laser beam-propelled "nanocraft" that can travel at 20 percent of the speed of light and is much faster than today's swiftest spacecraft.

selvaarchi
2017-Nov-14, 02:36 AM
Surprise - China has a joint project with Taiwan.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2119270/how-beijing-and-taipei-are-teaming-space-track-earthquakes


Beijing and Taipei will join hands in space to monitor the electromagnetic signals that can precede earthquakes following a landmark intergovernmental agreement last month.

selvaarchi
2017-Nov-24, 01:04 PM
Although USA has banned its commercial companies from using Chinese launch verchiels, ESA does not fall under the restrictions as long as they are not using any USA made components.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Engineering_Technology/ESA_s_latest_technology_CubeSat_cleared_for_launch _site


GomX-4B, ESA’s latest and largest technology-testing CubeSat, will be launched from China early next year, together with the near-identical GomX-4A. The pair will test intersatellite communication links and propulsion while orbiting up to 4500 km apart.

The cereal box-sized GomX-4B has been passed as ready to travel along with its twin from manufacturer GomSpace in Denmark in early December to begin launch preparations in China.

“GomX-4B is scheduled to be launched on a Chinese Long March rocket on 1 February, along with GomX-4A, owned by the Danish Ministry of Defence,” says Roger Walker, heading ESA’s Technology CubeSat initiative.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-11, 05:59 AM
France and China collaboration in space is getting stronger as the following two article show.

https://presse.cnes.fr/en/state-visit-president-emmanuel-macron-peoples-republic-china-france-and-china-step-space-cooperation


Tuesday 9 January in Beijing, in the presence of French President Emmanuel Macron and Xi Jinping, President of the People’s Republic of China, CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall signed a memorandum of understanding on climate actions and space exploration with Wu Yanhua, Acting Administrator of the China National Space Administration (CNSA).

This boost to French-Chinese space cooperation was followed on Wednesday 10 January by President Macron’s visit to CNSA’s technical facility, where he was shown the CFOSat (Chinese-French Oceanic Satellite) ocean-observing satellite that is the cornerstone of the two nations’ joint efforts to tackle climate change.

France and China have given fresh impetus to their space partnership since 2014 with two major projects, the CFOSat ocean-observing mission and the SVOM (Space Variable Objects Monitor) astronomy mission. CNES and CNSA signed a letter of intent in 2015 to step up their cooperation on tackling climate change, confirmed in May last year at the 11th meeting of the joint Space Committee.

Building on this new momentum, the MoU signed by CNES and CNSA will further consolidate cooperation between the two nations, putting the emphasis on widely disseminating CFOSat data and pursuing the dynamic created by the One Planet Summit organized in Paris on 12 December last year. It will also help to work towards the creation of a Space Climate Observatory (SCO), the flagship initiative of the Paris Declaration adopted on 11 December at CNES’s Head Office. The CFOSat mission, scheduled to launch from China mid-year, will study ocean surface winds and waves with a view to improving sea-state forecasts and gaining new insights into ocean-atmosphere interactions. To this end, the satellite will be carrying two radar instruments: SWIM (Surface Waves Investigation and Monitoring), developed by France, and SCAT (wind SCATterometer), developed by China.


https://www.3ds.com/press-releases/single/dassault-systemes-signs-strategic-cooperation-agreement-with-china-aerospace-science-and-technology/


Dassault Systèmes (Euronext Paris: #13065, DSY.PA) and China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) have signed a strategic cooperation agreement. The agreement coincides with French President Emmanuel Macron’s first state visit to China in January 2018, and supports efforts by France and China to strengthen their technological and economic cooperation in the context of France’s “Industry of the Future” and China’s “Made in China 2025” industrial initiatives.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-16, 11:01 AM
Collaboration between China and France has produced results.

http://english.nssc.cas.cn/rh/rp/201801/t20180113_189013.html


"On Jan. 11, 2018,the Geostationary Millimeter-wave Atmospheric Sounder Demonstrator jointly developed by the National Space Science Center, Chinese Academy of Sciences (NSSC, CAS) and the European Space Agency (ESA) passed the Joint Acceptance Review, which is the first substantial achievement for CAS-ESA cooperation in the field of advanced payload technology of earth observation, paving the way for future Millimeter-wave exploration for the Chinese GEO meteorological satellites.

Geostationary Millimeter-wave Atmospheric Sounding can realize real-time three-dimensional monitoring of disastrous severe convection weather, such as typhoon and rain storms, as introduced by Prof. WU Ji from NSSC, CAS. At present, no meteorological satellites in the world have such observational capability. Therefore it is one of the most important research frontiers in the field of Earth observation all over the world. Of one accord, NSSC and ESA focus on the new interferometric aperture synthesis technology, aiming to tackle constrains of the traditional technology to achieve better technological specification such as better spatial resolution. After more than ten years of extensive research, both sides have entered the stage of developing full scale ground demonstrators for experimentation".

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-17, 12:13 PM
China is taking it one step further and establishng a Research Laboratory in Luxembourg.

http://www.gouvernement.lu/7695473/17-schneider-agreement-china-en?context=3422869


The Research Laboratory of Deep Space Exploration will be established as an independent legal entity in Luxembourg where it will carry out scientific research and technology development and thus contribute to achieving the objectives set forth within the SpaceResources.lu initiative. Other main research fields of the Research Laboratory include universal interplanetary communications network related technology or advanced deep space communications technology. In a first stage, the Research Laboratory will employ at least 5 employees in Luxembourg.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-18, 05:55 PM
US politicians worried about China gaining American technology have stopped NASA having any direct contact with China. They also are putting pressure on their companies to stop buying Russian rocket engines.

Now they are worried Russia might sell the engines to China!

https://www.ft.com/content/0e200bbc-f75b-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00



Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/0e200bbc-f75b-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00

Great Wall Industry, the Chinese space launch company, is negotiating with Russia’s top rocket maker to procure sensitive engine technology, highlighting the deepening aerospace ties between the two countries that have*sparked concerns in Washington.

Russia’s leading rocket engine manufacturer,*NPO Energomash, confirmed to the FT on Wednesday that the talks were taking place, although attempts to reach Great Wall Industries were unsuccessful. China’s National Space Administration also declined to comment.

Energomash’s engine, the RD-180, is so highly rated that it is used by the US for its own satellite launches —*a curious exception to Washington’s sanctions on Russia implemented following the 2014 invasion of Crimea.

US politicians have threatened to block future purchases of the RD-180 under pressure from competitors such as*SpaceX and*geopolitical concerns over relying on Russia for strategic technologies.

7cscb
2018-Jan-18, 06:40 PM
US politicians worried about China gaining American technology have stopped NASA having any direct contact with China. They also are putting pressure on their companies to stop buying Russian rocket engines.

Now they are worried Russia might sell the engines to China!

https://www.ft.com/content/0e200bbc-f75b-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00

I cannot access the link.

I get that you believe the USA is worried about Russia's RD-180 sales. I don't believe anybody in American rocketry is that concerned.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-18, 06:50 PM
I cannot access the link.

I get that you believe the USA is worried about Russia's RD-180 sales. I don't believe anybody in American rocketry is that concerned.


Do a google search on "China Russia rocket" and like me get through the Financial Times payment wall to read the article.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-19, 01:43 PM
A more balanced report on China's progress is in the latest issue of The Economist.

https://www.economist.com/news/china/21735074-america-keeping-its-distance-chinas-ambitions-space-are-growing


Europe is keen to collaborate. Chinese and European scientists launched their first joint satellite in 2003. They are now co-operating in a study of solar wind. Astronauts from the European Space Agency (ESA) recently trained with Chinese counterparts in survival skills. Karl Bergquist, an ESA official, says a few European astronauts are learning Chinese to prepare for possible joint missions.

But America’s worries are growing about the military aspects of China’s space programme. Marco Aliberti of the European Space Policy Institute in Vienna says this has been particularly evident since 2013, when China showed it could launch projectiles into the lofty orbits traced by America’s most sensitive satellites, suggesting it was developing an ability to knock them out. Many American scientists favour a more relaxed approach. But in an era of “America First”, the chances are slim of NASA being allowed to befriend China.

All this rankles among Chinese officials. They note that tense relations between America and Russia have not prevented those two countries’ space agencies from working together (since retiring the space shuttle, America has been dependent on Russian rockets to get astronauts into space). As many people in China see it, America’s behaviour is further confirmation of a long-held belief that America wants to create impediments to China’s rise. Jiao Weixin, a space expert at Peking University, says America is locked in “cold-war thinking”. If American authorities do not wish to work with China, he says, there are others who will.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-29, 03:54 PM
This Friday's launch by China will carry a satellite jointly developed by China and Italy to monitor electromagnetic and atmospheric phenomena, and study correlations with the occurrence of seismic events.

https://gbtimes.com/china-to-launch-a-seismo-electromagnetic-probe-on-friday-along-with-esa-danish-argentine-commercial-and-student-cubesats


China is set to launch an experimental seismo-electromagnetic probe on Friday from the Jiuquan launch centre, with small ESA and commercial satellites along for the ride.

A Long March 2D rocket will carry the main and piggybacking payloads into low Earth orbit from Jiuquan in the Gobi Desert, with launch anticipated to be around 15:50 local time (07:50 UTC).

The launch will be China's sixth following a busy January, with the country planning a possible 40 launches for 2018.

The main payload is Zhangheng-1, also known as the China Seismo-Electromagnetic Satellite (CSES). CSES is a collaborative project between the China National Space Administration (CNSA) and Italian Space Agency (ASI), and includes a range of Chinese and Italian universities and research institutions to monitor electromagnetic and atmospheric phenomena, and study correlations with the occurrence of seismic events.

selvaarchi
2018-Feb-02, 10:40 AM
Today's launch highlights how much cooperation there is between China and Europe. The launch included satellites built with collaboration between China and ESA. It also included with Italy and Denmark and some European companies.

https://gbtimes.com/china-launches-seismo-electromagnetic-probe-along-with-esa-danish-and-commercial-cubesats


China launched a seismo-electromagnetic probe on Friday, along with CubeSats for the European Space Agency, Denmark, companies Satellogic and Linkspace, and a youth space project.

The cluster of satellites were launched on a Long March 2D rocket from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre in the Gobi Desert at 15:51 local time (07:51 UTC).

The two-stage hypergolic launch vehicle sent the seven satellites towards a 500 km altitude Sun-synchronous orbit, with Chinese aerospace institutes confirming success within an hour.

The launch was China's sixth for 2018, with the country planning around 40 launches for the year, including government and commercial missions. Today's mission was due to lift off in August 2017, but was delayed, at least initially, by two launch issues suffered in June and July.

selvaarchi
2018-Feb-21, 11:32 PM
Jeffrey Manber, CEO, NanoRacks requests the National Space Council to relook at the restrictions on American space companies to do business with China.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=52267


Finally, as I look overseas, the United States cannot simply ignore China's commercial space ambitions. China is quietly developing a robust commercial space industry. I say quietly because Americans are blinded by our own regulations, and mindset, from participation.

Large Chinese companies are creating commercial launch efforts while young Chinese entrepreneurs are raising funds from Silicon Valley to Hong Kong. On a governmental level, the European Space Agency has astronauts training to visit the planned Chinese space station. But the United States is barred. NanoRacks and others are limited on what we can sell in this marketplace.

Avoiding this emerging marketplace, albeit due to justified concerns over technology transfer and other legitimate challenges, is not the American global leadership that we strive to achieve.

Now, while my time today is brief, I urge us to negotiate a stern but fair agreement with China, and allow U.S. businesses to do what we do best: innovate and compete better than anyone else.

selvaarchi
2018-Mar-23, 05:00 PM
Jeffrey Manber, CEO, NanoRacks requests the National Space Council to relook at the restrictions on American space companies to do business with China.


Now we know why. NanaRacks is working with a Chinese commercial company to develop a near space Traveler spacecraft.


US company Nanoracks and Kuang-Chi of China have signed a cooperation deal on the near space 'Traveler' helium spacecraft, designed for space tourism and commercial applications.

Shenzhen-based Kuang-Chi has developed a number of craft for near space, and last year sent a live turtle to an altitude of over 20 kilometres aboard Traveler 3.

It is aiming to be able to safely transport people and payloads to an altitude of around 25 kilometres, taking them into the zone known as 'near space' 20-100 kilometres above the Earth.

According to a Nanorack press release, the partnership will focus on the "development of the Traveler program outside of China, leveraging Kuang-Chi’s near space technology and NanoRacks’ expertise in both in-space business development and customer marketing."

selvaarchi
2018-Mar-26, 11:51 PM
Article in this week's "Space Review" requesting the US to cooperate with China is space.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3458/1


Landing on the Moon in 1969 was one of the greatest achievements in human history. This accomplishment was the result of the Space Race between the United States and the Soviet Union. Now, the United States endeavors to go to the Moon again.

This time, the United States should go to the Moon not based on competition but on cooperation. China’s space capabilities are improving rapidly and its space presence is expanding. Collaboration with China can bring financial and diplomatic benefit. Last December, the Trump Administration declared its intent to go back to the Moon and go beyond. To achieve this goal, international cooperation is necessary. To achieve this goal, the United States should travel to the Moon with China as a new partner.

While the United States has built trust and cooperation with many countries in space, so far it has not worked with China. The US space station program was originally designed in the context of Cold War. Eventually, the United States invited Russia to the International Space Station and deepened international cooperation in space. On the other hand, in 2011, a federal law prohibited NASA from working with China for national security reasons.

This prohibition should be eliminated and the United States should collaborate with China. Cooperation should proceed step by step. Even during the Cold War, the United States and the Soviet Union cooperated in space. The United States can find ways to work with China. As a first step, the United States should admit China to participate in the International Space Station.

selvaarchi
2018-Apr-21, 01:29 AM
China is going all out to strengthen international space cooperation.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/19/c_137123117.htm


China will continue to strengthen international cooperation in peaceful exploration and utilization of outer space, said Li Guoping, a spokesman of the China National Space Administration (CNSA), Thursday.

So far, China has signed 121 cooperation agreements with 37 countries and four international organizations, Li said at a press conference about the Space Day of China, which will come on April 24, marking the day the country's first satellite was sent into space in 1970.

He raised the example of the 30-year-long cooperation between China and Brazil in the development of earth resources satellites. Currently, the two countries are jointly developing a fourth satellite, which is progressing well.

selvaarchi
2018-Apr-26, 03:40 PM
China to work with ESA to carry out research on space food,

https://gbtimes.com/china-looking-to-further-human-spaceflight-cooperation-with-esa-starting-with-food?cat=business


ESA has partnered with China in space science, launches and astronaut training. This could lead to a European joining Chinese counterparts on the CSS, but smaller steps are needed first.

"Three of my young colleagues, one German, one Italian, and one French, have started learning Chinese because we hope that the first non-Chinese astronaut to fly [in China's Space Station] will be a European," Xinhua quoted Clervoy as saying.

"We have attached great importance to the cooperation and exchanges with foreign astronauts on academic studies and training. Next, we want to jointly carry out some research on space food with ESA," said Fei Junlong, deputy director of Astronaut Centre of China and veteran of the Shenzhou 6 mission.

selvaarchi
2018-May-30, 01:45 PM
Now I only have to drive 300 miles south to see some of the Chinese space equipment :D

https://www.thestar.com.my/metro/metro-news/2018/05/29/window-into-chinas-space-race-rockets-and-spacecraft-models-on-display-at-tech-dome-penang-in-july/


YOU probably have read about China’s space missions or even seen them on television. Now is the chance to get a rare insight into its aerospace programme at the Space Exploration Gallery at Tech Dome Penang.

The China Science and Technology Museum has brought space models worth about RM1mil for the gallery in July. They are four rockets and two spacecraft models.

The rockets are the Long March 2F, Long March CZ-3A, Long March 5 and Long March 7 while the spacecraft models are the Chang’e 3 Lunar Lander and Yutu Lunar Rover.

selvaarchi
2018-Jun-08, 11:34 AM
This is an article in NASA Watch titled "Is It Time To Work With China In Space?"

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2018/06/is-it-time-to-w.html


China is getting ready to launch a new space station which, when complete, will be on par with Mir with many capabilities similar to those offered by the ISS. China is openly seeking governmental and commercial participation. Meanwhile they are about to land a rover on the far side of the Moon as part of a methodical plan to land humans there.

Meanwhile NASA is trying to rid itself of the ISS through various half-hearted efforts to commercialize this amazing resource that rely on smoke and mirrors and faith-based funding plans. NASA is also puffing itself up again for the third time in less than 20 years to #GoBackToTheMoon or something with budgets that do not come close to making such a thing possible. Oh by the way #JourneyToMars is still on the books.

One would think that the prudent thing would be to leverage our interests with those of China as we have done with Russia and many other nations around the world. But short-sighted legislation and targeted xenophobia currently prevents this.

selvaarchi
2018-Jun-23, 07:04 AM
In contrast to President Trump's call for the US to dominance the exploration of space, the Moon and Mars, China is welcoming all countries to join it in its exploration of space.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-06/21/c_137268993.htm


A Chinese envoy on Wednesday called for strengthening of outer space governance and cooperation in the international community's joint effort to build a shared future in space exploration.

Shi Zhongjun, China's ambassador to the United Nations and other international organizations in Vienna, made the remarks at the UNISPACE+50 gathering, held to mark the 50th anniversary of the first United Nations Conference on the Exploration and Peaceful Uses of Outer Space.

The Chinese envoy called for efforts to foster a sense of shared future to promote the sustainable development of outer space.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-06/20/c_137265977.htm


Cooperation between China and the UN Office for Outer Space Affairs (UNOOSA) is going from strength to strength, head of the office Simonetta Di Pippo said Tuesday.

Di Pippo said China has not only made great achievements in outer space exploration and its related activities but also demonstrated its commitment to international cooperation in the peaceful uses of outer space.

China plans to open up the China Space Station (CSS) to all the Member States of the United Nations with opportunities for flying their space experiments on board the Station.

BigDon
2018-Jun-23, 04:48 PM
https://news.usni.org/2018/06/11/latest-theft-navy-data-another-sign-china-targeting-defense-companies

From the Naval Institute.

Another

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/08/china-stolen-vast-amounts-navy-submarine-missile-data-multiple-breaches-contractors-servers

Sorry, I was starting to dislike the tone of this thread.

BigDon
2018-Jun-23, 05:08 PM
So technically China is very much NOT excluding us from their tech programs.

selvaarchi
2018-Jun-24, 02:48 AM
https://news.usni.org/2018/06/11/latest-theft-navy-data-another-sign-china-targeting-defense-companies

From the Naval Institute.

Another

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/08/china-stolen-vast-amounts-navy-submarine-missile-data-multiple-breaches-contractors-servers

Sorry, I was starting to dislike the tone of this thread.

BigDon all countries including the US spies on other countries including friendly countries. They then share it with their trusted commercial/military companies.

7cscb
2018-Jun-24, 05:43 PM
So technically China is very much NOT excluding us from their tech programs.

That applies to everything.

You are the one who chose the inflammatory thread title and your comments imply nobler motives from China.

This does not belong in a Space Exploration forum.

selvaarchi
2018-Jul-21, 11:22 AM
"SOME SCIENTISTS WORK WITH CHINA, BUT NASA WON'T"

https://www.wired.com/story/some-scientists-work-with-china-but-nasa-wont/


Sylvestre is a planetary scientist at France’s Institute for Research and Planetary Astronomy, and deputy principal investigator for SuperCam. But he's an international collaborator: Over the years, he’s worked on missions to Saturn, the moon, and Mars with NASA colleagues. Sylvestre’s lab is currently building an instrument similar to SuperCam that will fly to Mercury on the European-Japanese BepiColombo mission, as well as one called Éclair that is part of a joint French-Chinese satellite. Notably, that makes him one of a small number of planetary scientists who are working with China to boost their science, while doing his best to keep Western technology from getting pilfered. It's a tightrope that not everyone is willing to walk.

“We are careful what we are doing,” Sylvestre says. “We understand the security issues. We understand that we should be careful and not be too naïve. But at the same time I feel the idea of planetary exploration is for everyone."

Working with both NASA and China may seem like a contradiction, or even a conflict. The two superpowers are butting heads on trade, military, and cybersecurity issues. Congress has banned NASA officials and NASA money from going to China. That might be because of a recent history of Chinese espionage targeting US military, aerospace, and technological secrets.

selvaarchi
2018-Aug-02, 07:30 AM
China is making headway in providing launch and satellite services to other nations.

https://www.orfonline.org/research/chinas-design-to-capture-regional-satcom-markets/


China is strategically capturing a major share of the international communications satellites market. This includes launching government satellites of developing countries in the Global South, such as Nigeria, Venezuela, Sri Lanka and Pakistan, some of whom have repeat orders in place. China has developed an ITAR-free (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) communications satellite bus known as Dong Fang Hong 4 (DFH-4) and uses its own launch vehicle Long March 3B (LM-3B) for executing these contracts. The China Great Wall Industry Corporation (CGWIC) is China’s government entity authorised to negotiate and execute these contracts.

This report gathers information on the key elements of these contracts to provide a broad perspective on the developments so far. It makes an assessment of the rationale for acquiring satellites, the scope of their use, as well as the problems that have subsequently arisen. The relation between satellite contracts and China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is also examined.

selvaarchi
2018-Oct-02, 03:46 AM
China and the US working on additional areas they can work on without infringing the Wolf Amendment.

https://spacenews.com/nasa-opens-door-to-additional-cooperation-with-china/


The administrator of NASA and his Chinese counterpart have both expressed interest in working together despite the current constraints in U.S. law regarding bilateral cooperation.

selvaarchi
2018-Oct-03, 11:12 AM
"ESA looking at deeper cooperation with China on Moon Village concept, human spaceflight"

https://gbtimes.com/esa-looking-at-deeper-cooperation-with-china-on-moon-village-concept-human-spaceflight


The European Space Agency is working to further cooperation with China in areas including human spaceflight and lunar exploration, agency director general Johann-Dietrich Woerner said on Tuesday.

Mr Woerner, who also went on to present matters related to the next ESA council, was speaking at an ESA press conference at the 69th International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Bremen, Germany.

Asked about developments in ESA's relationship with China in terms of human spaceflight, space science and lunar exploration, Mr Woerner responded with an overview of collaboration and an update on the Moon Village concept.

selvaarchi
2018-Dec-11, 02:48 PM
China and France are now cooperating in several areas in space exploration.

http://www.aircosmosinternational.com/cnes-lists-franco-chinese-space-programme-goals-118071


Following the successful launch of the Franco-Chinese CFOSat mission on 29th October, CNES President Jean-Yves Le Gall has set out a series of goals for future joint space programmes between France and China. Le Gall was speaking at a preparatory meeting of the French-Chinese joint science and technology committee on 10th December.

selvaarchi
2018-Dec-13, 01:27 AM
Above post on France and this post on UK working with China on space exploration.

http://www.ecns.cn/news/sci-tech/2018-12-12/detail-ifzasznx1604135.shtml


Hundreds of leading scientists and technologists from the UK and Chinese space research and industry are discussing how to deepen the collaboration and pave the way for future innovation at the 13th UK-China workshop on space science and technology in Ningbo City, east China's Zhejiang Province, from December 11 to 13.

Since a joint laboratory was established by the UK's Science and Technology Facilities' RAL Space and China's Beihang University in 2005, the collaboration has brought together over 2,000 space scientists, technologists and industrialists from more than 90 organizations. The result has been 12 joint research projects and an international research program.

Anu Ojha, director of the UK National Space Academy, said, "A great example is what we call the agri-tech program, so how we can use the data from space to benefit life on earth? Now the UK and China have worked with support from both our governments, and it made a real difference for farmers on the ground, both in Europe and critically in China's less developed regions."

selvaarchi
2019-Jan-11, 11:09 AM
Chang'e-4 might be the break we need to see more US and China cooperation on international missions.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/China_welcomes_worlds_scientists_to_collaborate_in _lunar_exploration_999.html


The Chang'e-4 mission, which accomplished the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon, embodies China's hope to combine human wisdom in future space exploration.

Chang'e-4 is carrying four payloads developed by the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and the Saudi Arabia.

"International cooperation is the future of lunar exploration. The participating countries would share the costs, risks and achievements, and learn from each other. We hope to have more international cooperation," said Wu Weiren, chief designer of China's lunar exploration program.

A neutron radiation detector aboard the lander, developed by Germany, and a neutral atom detector on the rover, developed by Sweden, have both switched on for test operations, said the China National Space Administration (CNSA) on Thursday.

The radioisotope heat source, a collaboration between Chinese and Russian scientists, will support the probe through the lunar night, each equivalent to about 14 days on the earth, when the temperature can fall to minus 180 degrees Celsius.

The ground station that China built in Argentina has played an important role in the monitoring and control of the mission, and ground stations run by the European Space Agency will also offer support.

The scientists of the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) of NASA have also cooperated with the team of the Chang'e-4 mission to study the landing of the Chang'e-4 probe, according to CNSA.

The U.S. side has offered the orbital data of LRO and the Chinese side has provided the landing timing and location, said CNSA.

China was drawing up the plan for the fourth phase of the lunar exploration program, and more payloads of future missions would be developed through international cooperation, Wu said.

selvaarchi
2019-Jan-14, 04:32 PM
Another voice asking for China, USA cooperation in space.

http://www.ecns.cn/news/2019-01-14/detail-ifzcpxvf8626067.shtml


There is both optimism and a need for the United States to resume cooperation with China in space exploration, a veteran astronaut and former NASA administrator said days after the Chinese spacecraft Chang'e 4 made a historic soft-landing on the far side of the moon on Jan. 2.

"China should feel very proud of having accomplished this. Anytime you can do something that has not been done before, it's a reason for excitement and celebration," said Charles F. Bolden, chief of the space agency from July 2009 to January 2017.

Congressional prohibitions on space cooperation with China-as stipulated by the 2011 Wolf Amendment to NASA appropriations bills-is a "significant legal constraint" and "hindrance" that should be relaxed or reversed, Bolden said.

"I'm incredibly optimistic. I just think cooler heads will prevail," Bolden said in an exclusive interview.

selvaarchi
2019-Jan-19, 03:34 PM
Australian news paper, The Sidney Morning Herald, on China's cooperation with international partners in space. It also highlights the barrier on working with the US and hopes of this comming down.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/red-moon-rising-china-s-mission-to-the-far-side-20190117-p50s0y.html


The Western world will watch a red moon rise on Sunday night.

The super blood moon eclipse neatly coincides with a history-making fortnight of Chinese space exploration.

The red-flagged probe, Chang'e-4, landed on the far side of the moon, deploying its six-wheeled rover to conquer unexplored realms.

Western space scientists watched on with genuine enthusiasm as the Chinese Lunar Exploration Program achieved the first soft landing on the far side of the moon, and sent back detailed images. This week, the first green leaves sprouted on the moon.

Matthias Maurer, a German astronaut with the European Space Agency who has trained with Chinese astronauts, told the Sydney Morning Herald he is convinced the success of Chang'e-4 will boost space co-operation between Europe and China.

selvaarchi
2019-May-07, 03:01 PM
As China makes progress in space research, more and more countries are willing to work with China on their missions.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-05/07/c_138040362.htm


Chinese space experts have strengthened international exchanges in the latest achievements in exploring the moon, Mars, Jupiter, asteroids and the deeper cosmos.

While developing the Chang'e-5 and Chang'e-6 lunar probes and China's first Mars probe, China Academy of Space Technology (CAST) is also pushing forward space programs such as the planned unmanned lunar research station, and probing asteroids, Mars, the Jovian system and the edge of the solar system, as well as interplanetary exploration, said experts from CAST.

They were speaking to more than 370 experts from both at home and abroad in Beijing at a recent international symposium on lunar and deep space exploration.

selvaarchi
2019-Jul-26, 11:23 AM
7cscb - Canada is now working with China and ESA on one mission.:)

https://www.canada.ca/en/space-agency/news/2019/07/canadian-imaging-technology-takes-key-role-in-science-satellite-mission.html


The Canadian Space Agency (CSA) and the University of Calgary, along with other partners, announced that they will develop Canada's contribution to the Solar wind Magnetosphere Ionosphere Link Explorer (SMILE) mission. The mission is a collaboration between the European Space Agency (ESA) and the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) to study space weather, the phenomenon that causes the northern lights but can also cause disruptions and damage to technology.

selvaarchi
2019-Jul-29, 02:08 PM
I see this as apositive sign on India and China relations - "China provides satellite data to assist India in flood relief".

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-07/24/c_138254744.htm


China has provided satellite data to assist India with its recent flood relief efforts, the China National Space Administration (CNSA) said on Wednesday.

The CNSA launched the satellite emergency response plan early last Thursday, following the Indian Space Research Organization's (ISRO) request for international disaster relief support last Wednesday night, under the International Charter on Space and Major Disasters, said the Chinese space agency.

The China Center for Resources Satellite Data and Application (CRESDA) scheduled three Chinese earth observation satellites, namely Gaofen-1, Gaofen-2 and Gaofen-3, to capture images of flood-stricken regions in India last Friday, last Saturday and on Wednesday, the CNSA said in a press release.

The CRESDA also made a query for archived data and sent a total of 14 pre- and post-disaster satellite images to the ISRO, providing support in flood monitoring, said the CNSA