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BigDon
2014-Jul-18, 04:16 PM
Hopefully Mr. Creek, (or an Irishman) can explain something for me.

I tried professionally made raw whiskey, AKA moonshine for the first time a few weeks ago.

Buffalo Trace White Dog by brand and name.

The first bottle was actually delicious. It tasted a lot like tequila made from wheat instead of agave. Without the tequila stomach upset.

The second bottle...

If the first bottle had tasted like the second one, there wouldn't have been a second one.

The second bottle actually tasted like the broth off of soured oatmeal with a thunderbird after taste. (Thunderbird is cheap fortified wine.)

The bottle is still sitting on my kitchen counter three quarter full.

I ain't drinking anymore of it.

Can somebody explain what the heck could have happened between bottles A and B?

profloater
2014-Jul-18, 04:34 PM
OK you said professionally made but was it a small still perhaps? Then it was a different fraction. I happen to live near the only English Whisky distillery and watched the process. The first take off, after the light poisonous part (methanol) is effectively 100% ethanol and then it goes dilluted into barrels previously used for sherry. Time and wood and old sherry does its work and after ten years, you get award winning whisky. To make moonshine I guess you use old varnish, burnt sugar or something to flavour the ethanol. Maybe I should send you some good English whisky to demonstrate?

Trebuchet
2014-Jul-18, 06:35 PM
If you have access to a hydrometer it might tell you something. If you had anything left of the first one to compare.

Or maybe not. Like Profloater says, it was probably a different fraction. The first one may have come from one with a lot of alcohol, requiring adding a lot of water to get it to the desired proof, thus diluting the aromatics. The second one may have come from when there was less alcohol (thus less dilution) and more aromatics.

Pretty sloppy "craftsmanship", I'd say.

profloater
2014-Jul-18, 06:45 PM
If you run a small illegal still, allegedly and hypothetically of course, you have a thermometer in the spout as the fumes come off. Methanol (just one C atom) boils at about 65 C so you let that boil off, then the temperature rises to about 75 76 for ethanol (two Cs) and you keep that using a condenser tube. Then temp rises and you discard that with skill to capture a few bigger volatiles but avoiding the nasty stuff. Methanol makes you blind and very sick. Ethanol suitably diluted is one of life's little compensations. Allegedly.

PetersCreek
2014-Jul-18, 07:44 PM
Mr. Creek won't be much help since he prefers whisk(e)y that has contemplated the mysteries of time and space...the space encapsulated by barrel staves, anyway.

Fazor
2014-Jul-18, 07:50 PM
I consider whiskey and bourbon to be my favorite spirits, but there's still very few I can drink without taming them with cola or ginger ale. And yes, I'm aware that doing so is an act that is likely to anger actual whiskey and bourbon drinkers.

Though now that I'm on a program where I run every other day, it interferes with this particular hobby as I try not to have any alcohol the day prior to my run days in order to aid in hydration.

PetersCreek
2014-Jul-18, 08:51 PM
I consider whiskey and bourbon to be my favorite spirits, but there's still very few I can drink without taming them with cola or ginger ale. And yes, I'm aware that doing so is an act that is likely to anger actual whiskey and bourbon drinkers.

Please surrender your man card to security on your way off the premises. :p

When I'm engaged in whisk(e)y tasting, I tame the burn with filtered water. For more casual sipping, I enjoy single malts the same way while other whiskeys are often on the rocks.

jokergirl
2014-Jul-18, 10:28 PM
We've joined the whisky snobs since last year's trip to Scotland. Neat or with a drop of water, please. (by the way, the Glengoyne teapot dram is indeed worth what they say. A whisky you should have tasted.)

;)

profloater
2014-Jul-19, 11:19 AM
No commercial interest but look out for St Georges English whisky and please always with water, the high alcohol content kills your sense of taste, and these whiskies have taste. I say an equal shot of water and with "chapter 11" high peat whisky even two parts water to get the full flavour. It won the gold medal of all whiskies last year.

Moose
2014-Jul-19, 02:23 PM
Please surrender your man card to security on your way off the premises. :p

Heh, Brett, I may be about to provoke a reaction, but I consider whiskey or bourbon a fast way to ruin a perfectly good soda. :p

grant hutchison
2014-Jul-20, 11:05 AM
When I'm engaged in whisk(e)y tasting, I tame the burn with filtered water. For more casual sipping, I enjoy single malts the same way while other whiskeys are often on the rocks.I always drink single malts neat, simply because I prefer them that way. This drives my whisky drinking friends crazy, since they are very keen on diluting it down with water so as to be able to pick out and name all the subtle flavours and aromas. I understand why they want to do this, and agree that the dilution makes it easier to do, but to me it's a separate area of human endeavour, and not one I'm particularly interested in.
Some old friends and I were hiking in Glen Torridon recently, and therefore dropped into the whisky bar (http://www.thetorridon.com/hotel/whisky-bar/) at The Torridon hotel. One of my friends forcibly diluted my Bruachladdich in an effort to make me change my ways.
"What do you think of that?" he demanded.
I sipped and made a face. "It tastes like a dilute malt whisky."

Grant Hutchison

grant hutchison
2014-Jul-20, 11:12 AM
In answer to Don's question, it sounds as if some contaminant from the mash process made it into the final bottle. I've no idea what sort of process control disaster might have caused that.

Grant Hutchison

captain swoop
2014-Jul-20, 11:16 AM
Only some Malts need a drop of water. Myself I takeit neat. as the Malts I prefer don't need any water.

BigDon
2014-Jul-20, 03:40 PM
Well, the white dog is 125 proof stuff. The first bottle was so good it was drinkable straight even at the high alcohol content.

Though I'm sure steady drinking of spirits THAT strong, undiluted, would cause cancer of the esophagus in fairly short order. (In the vulnerable population, of course.)

Two tumblers of that and I was done drinking for the evening!

Almost tempted to buy a third bottle to find out which one was the fluke.

profloater
2014-Jul-20, 05:02 PM
125 proof! I don't know what percentage that is and I don't have any gun cotton to test it out. I dare say WP will have a table somewhere. I am making special shampoo out of vodka starting at 37.5% vol, I know it's a shame but research must go on. I cannot directly buy the ethanol. If It works out the shampoo will be quite safe to drink although that is not my objective. It might be dangerous to flick open the trusty Zippo while drinking that white dog!

grant hutchison
2014-Jul-20, 05:25 PM
125 proof! I don't know what percentage that is and I don't have any gun cotton to test it out.In the US, 125 proof corresponds to 62.5% alcohol by volume. In the UK, 71.4% ABV.
Either way, it violates Hutchison's Second Law, which is "Never drink anything that is less than 50% water."

Grant Hutchison

profloater
2014-Jul-20, 05:48 PM
In the US, 125 proof corresponds to 62.5% alcohol by volume. In the UK, 71.4% ABV.
Either way, it violates Hutchison's Second Law, which is "Never drink anything that is less than 50% water."

Grant HutchisonDare I ask about Hutchison's first law?
As a student I had some laws, the first law was roughly speaking, "never start with the third law"

BigDon
2014-Jul-20, 06:12 PM
125 proof! I don't know what percentage that is and I don't have any gun cotton to test it out. I dare say WP will have a table somewhere. I am making special shampoo out of vodka starting at 37.5% vol, I know it's a shame but research must go on. I cannot directly buy the ethanol. If It works out the shampoo will be quite safe to drink although that is not my objective. It might be dangerous to flick open the trusty Zippo while drinking that white dog!

Bold mine.

You lost me there friend!

profloater
2014-Jul-20, 06:34 PM
Bold mine.

You lost me there friend!
I was assuming wikipedia would have a conversion for proof to alcohol by volume and was too lazy to look it up but Grant filled in my gaps. I did not know USA and UK proofs were different. You learn something new every day. I believe the UK one is based on how much dilution you can do and still light gun cotton soaked in the hooch, a venerable , even archaic method.

grant hutchison
2014-Jul-20, 07:24 PM
Dare I ask about Hutchison's first law?The First Law is "Never breathe anything that contains no oxygen." (You'd be surprised how often I see that one violated.)
The Third Law is "Never become airborne using any mode of transport that is not actually generating lift."

Grant Hutchison

profloater
2014-Jul-20, 07:29 PM
Very sensible. And my consulting days I had to have a practical rule. Never start a new project after 10 o'clock in the evening.

BigDon
2014-Jul-20, 08:02 PM
The First Law is "Never breathe anything that contains no oxygen." (You'd be surprised how often I see that one violated.)
The Third Law is "Never become airborne using any mode of transport that is not actually generating lift."

Grant Hutchison

I know a delightful exception to the third rule.

Dr. H, if you ever get the opportunity to be the only large male in a reinforced bouncy house full of tipsy petit Chinese women and Philippinas, all under a 100 pounds, I highly, highly recommend it.

A bachlorette party I was invited to participate in. The bride to be's dowry included a shipping line of some 11 vessels. Not my usual social crowd to say the least.)

They had to work in concert to even budge me, And then I'd fire them into the ceiling and they would then all rain down on top of me.

Though you'ld probably want to run that by your wife first... :)

Solfe
2014-Jul-20, 10:25 PM
I know a delightful exception to the third rule.

Dr. H, if you ever get the opportunity to be the only large male in a reinforced bouncy house full of tipsy petit Chinese women and Philippinas, all under a 100 pounds, I highly, highly recommend it.

A bachlorette party I was invited to participate in. The bride to be's dowry included a shipping line of some 11 vessels. Not my usual social crowd to say the least.)

They had to work in concert to even budge me, And then I'd fire them into the ceiling and they would then all rain down on top of me.

Though you'ld probably want to run that by your wife first... :)

Don, we missed you!

"When out in the sun, drink plenty of fluids. If you touch the sun, switch to fluids with water in them and apply sunblock." A weak translation from The Onion.

grant hutchison
2014-Jul-20, 10:36 PM
I know a delightful exception to the third rule.

Dr. H, if you ever get the opportunity to be the only large male in a reinforced bouncy house full of tipsy petit Chinese women and Philippinas, all under a 100 pounds, I highly, highly recommend it.Bouncy houses are not modes of transport, as far as I'm aware, so they don't fall within the ambit of the Third Law.
But just because the Third Law does not apply doesn't make it a good idea.

Grant Hutchison

BigDon
2014-Jul-26, 07:08 AM
Grant, I was thinking of when high winds pick them up and carry them off with people inside them.

Youtube will show you it's all too common.

Well my brother is celebrating and breaking out the "Oh dear Lord" expensive cognac.

So of course I'm torn between mixing it with red bull or doctor pepper.

(Oh, I am soooo kidding!)

And I'm going to go for a third round I do believe. My evening's limit for alcohol.

grant hutchison
2014-Jul-26, 12:56 PM
Grant, I was thinking of when high winds pick them up and carry them off with people inside them. OK. Then they have become a mode of transport under the Third Law, and you shouldn't become airborne in one.
Bouncing tiny ladies around in a static structure - a matter of personal choice outwith the ambit of the Third Law.
Getting into an untethered bouncy house in a high wind - clear potential violation of the Third Law, and therefore forbidden by it.

All seems clear enough to me. :lol:

Grant Hutchison

Fazor
2014-Jul-27, 12:00 AM
Well my brother is celebrating and breaking out the "Oh dear Lord" expensive cognac.

So of course I'm torn between mixing it with red bull or doctor pepper.

(Oh, I am soooo kidding!)


See! You're kidding. But Friday, I picked up a bottle of Templeton Rye. An expensive whiskey by my standards anyway. I had it straight last night (ended up adding a little bit of water to tame.) It was very good.

Tonight I had some with a ginger ale. It's one of the best drinks I've ever had.

DonM435
2014-Jul-27, 01:03 AM
Rye is really the only whisky (or whiskey, whichever applies) that I really enjoy. I find the Tennessee and the Irish whiskies tolerable. I really hate the taste of Scotch; and Canadian and most Bourbons have too much of whatever that nasty element is to my palate.

HenrikOlsen
2014-Jul-27, 08:26 PM
I will do a very slight derail and mention the 10 year old Single Cask Trés Vieux Rhum Agricole I opened yesterday.
Definitely worth the money.