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mickal555
2005-Jan-01, 12:38 PM
I have never told anyone this, but since everyone live away and can't cause me grief...
See (http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=asfamily&nav=messages&msg=2819.1&p rettyurl=%2Fasfamily%2Fmessages%2F%3Fmsg%3D2819%2E 1)
I'm in a major deppresion about the whole thing now (never been this sad)

Candy
2005-Jan-01, 02:02 PM
Asperger's Syndrome (http://autism.about.com/cs/adultswithasd/a/adults_w_asperg.htm)

I have never heard of this before.

Just a month ago, my boss said either I was very shy or just awkward in social situations. She didn't understand my behavior sometimes.

This is just one of many examples. Here's a sample.

I thought I was agoraphobia or something, because I would rather stay at home alone than socialize with others.

My grandmother recently told me, that I never approach others to converse. Unless, someone approaches me, I just amuse myself. Grandma said she noticed this many years ago.

My mother said, as a child, I never got dirty. I never cried. It was like I was a doll. I brought her a bag full of butterflies once. I don't remember this, but can you imagine how long catching butterflies would have taken?

Wow, I am really starting to wonder. I may just find a doctor and get a diagnosis. :o

2005-Jan-01, 02:09 PM
Oh no...not another one!!!

It makes all those hours spent behind the curtains watching for the first snowflake seem suddenly worthwhile... :o :o :o :o 8-[ 8-[ 8-[

I think I'll join that forum Mikal...thanks for the link!!! :D :D :D

kucharek
2005-Jan-01, 02:50 PM
If I look at the list of symptoms, I could checkmark many of them for me. But I guess, I'm just a guy who likes privacy and doesn't need a lot of people around him to be happy.

Don't let yourself feel downed with such diagnosis, Mickal. All people are different and some are a little bit more different than other people. But that's the thing that makes life & people interesting. Of course, it's more difficult when you're young and just develop your own personality. On one side, one want's to be unique, on the other side, one wants to easy mingle with the crowd. But I guess from your postings here that you're intelligent and already mature enough to make your way.

All the best,

Harald

cyswxman
2005-Jan-01, 03:49 PM
Oh no, I looked at the list, and checked all 10! :o

My mother said, as a child, I never got dirty. I never cried. It was like I was a doll. I brought her a bag full of butterflies once. I don't remember this, but can you imagine how long catching butterflies would have taken?
My mother told me that I never cried, and when their friends came over, I was so quiet that they remarked that they didn't even know I existed.

Joe The Dude
2005-Jan-01, 04:53 PM
Ah yes, the English Teacher Strikes Back.

I am amazed at how closely this mirrors my experience with ‘Public School’ English teachers.
Being on the Honor Roll mattered not to them.
Having passed an aptitude test that showed I had a College Reading Level in the 5’th grade blew their minds.
They were all determined to find something wrong with me. O_o
Over the years, they persisted in trying to label me with a wide variety of conflicting mental disorders.
I can’t tell you the amount of money that was wasted on private psychologists who, within 3 visits, said I absolutely did not have the ’New Syndrome of the Month’.

It grew exceedingly stranger as the years in public school went on.
All of my English teachers were bent on singling me out for reasons I have yet to understand.
Perhaps my green eyes had some kind of spellbinding effect on them… (joking)

Thanks (?) to friends and classmates, I learned early on to not always raise my hand at every question in about the 3’rd grade.
I never acted up in class, always had the answer when questioned, and I was almost always questioned.

I never ran for or wanted to participate in the student council, the debate team, school news paper, creative writing courses, band, football, basketball, or volunteered for any other school related extra curricular activities.
As I told them time and time again when pressed to do so was that I have no ill will towards those who like to participate in those activities, but the activities themselves don’t appeal to me.

STUDENT COUNCIL
The student council had no real power (I understood why and agreed with the reasoning).
I didn’t see the point in being part of it as I had no desire to be a politician.
Besides, the students involved in it at my school were exceedingly self-centered and had a blood-is-pure-caffeine, in-your-face attitude.

THE DEBATE TEAM
As for the debate team, I’ve always believed that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I neither want to impose my own beliefs on others or want them to force theirs on me. Yes, I know it has more nuances than that ideally, but from the 5 school debates I watched, it always boiled down to semantics. -_-
Just like the Student Council, the students involved in it at my school were exceedingly self-centered and had a blood-is-pure-caffeine, in-your-face attitude.

SCHOOL NEWS PAPER
Have you read one? Sorry, bad joke.
Seriously though, journalism just doesn’t appeal to me.
Just like the Student Council and the Debate Team, the students involved in it at my school were exceedingly self-centered and had a blood-is-pure-caffeine, in-your-face attitude.

CREATIVE WRITING
The many stories I read about teachers stealing concepts and ideas from student‘s creative writing papers curbed my joining the creative writing course, as did my negative experiences with my English Teachers.
And yet again, the students involved in it at my school were exceedingly self-centered and had a blood-is-pure-caffeine, in-your-face attitude.
I simply told them I had no interest in it.
Of course, it was a lie designed to keep from offending them.
Truth be told, I had no problems writing creatively, and I continue to do so in my free time.
I’ve even put some RPGs I made up on the web at www.stinkythecat.com .

BAND
The first time I took band, they stuck me with a trumpet.
It was exceedingly painful to play and It wasn’t until my lip split one day that they finally allowed me to stop playing it.
When I went to the doctor for the split lip, he said I didn’t have the right mouth shape to play that instrument!
This was in the 6’th grade.
My parents had him write that down and sat down with the principal to talk about it.
Apparently my incident was the final straw that lost the incompetent band teacher his job.
Since the school did not offer piano lessons, something I was indeed interested in, I was exempt from band for that year.

SPORTS
Hmm…
Showering with other students at school.
Nope, not going to do it.
Not every kid should be expected to have no issues with that.
Besides, I was on a baseball team sponsored by the local businesses.
The kids on the football and basketball teams, some of which were even friends from my baseball team, didn’t give me any flack about my feelings.
Even they didn’t understand the coach’s’ insistence that absolutely no one should have any problems showering together….

The story of my bouts with public school English Teacher gets even stranger.
One time I was absent from school for an extended period with the mumps.
About two weeks into it my mother was summoned to the school for a parent teacher conference with my 9’th grade English teacher.
Apparently, I had an evil twin attending class in my place using curse words and being extremely disruptive…

Before I had the mumps episode, the same teacher gave me an F on a report I had spent a week meticulously preparing.
My parents went with me to the principal to question my grade, and sure enough, after review by the other English teachers, not only did I get an A, I inadvertently qualified for submission in this contest they had going on where the winner would get extra credits and get to read it to the whole school.
Since I came in third I got the extra credits but didn’t have to read it at the assembly.

After the mumps episode, My folks took me down to the local community college for the GED test.
First try, I aced it, and thus ended the roller coaster ride of public school.

It seems to me that the English Teachers I had in public school were the ones with the mental disorders.
Whenever I, always with respect, declined to peruse things they suggested that was not part of the curriculum, they couldn’t cope with it.

From what I’ve read about these broad, inaccurate statements from teachers about your friends and the way they think you cope and deal with situations, I agree it’s totally bunk.
The way I understand it, your personal life is none of their business unless you volunteer to make it their business.

Your best bet may well be enrolling in a Private School, as your odds of dealing with a crackpot are greatly diminished.

If you are curious, I am 28 years old.

Joe The Dude
2005-Jan-01, 05:00 PM
Oh no, I looked at the list, and checked all 10! :o
My mother told me that I never cried, and when their friends came over, I was so quiet that they remarked that they didn't even know I existed.

My folks have told me I was always well behaved as a child, and I only cried when a situation warranted it; ie: physical injury, or cranky from lack of sleep or hunger (as an infant).

When they had guests over, I didn't interfere, but that may be attributed to having fun in my room playing with my Legos and such.
:lol:

Edit: Apparently, "Legos" is not a word in my spellchecker...

Joe The Dude
2005-Jan-01, 05:05 PM
After re-reading my long post I'd like to add that if you or your parents are truly concerned about this syndrome, by all means, seek out a licensed professional for an evaluation.

Tranquility
2005-Jan-01, 05:26 PM
When I was <3 years old I was extremely quiet and liked to play alone, ate very little, etc., my parents had a psychiatrist over who said I had depression because I didn't have anyone to play with, and that I needed a brother. So they had one. I still hate social events though, and prefer to be alone. I hate being in a crowd. For some reason I become extremely self-conscious. Which is why I prefer hobbies that don't require someone else, such as reading or browsing the net or playing games.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Jan-01, 06:08 PM
Joe The Dude:

That's almost exactly me. Except I didn't have those horrible teachers. Oh, and I cried a lot as a baby.

The only extra-curricular activity I'm currently involved in is the school yearbook, and only because I'm in charge.

School council? A joke. No power, full of bubbly, idealistic, "let's do something fun for the school," annoying people.

Don't have a debate team, don't have a school newspaper...

In fact, most extra-curricular activities at my school are sports-related. I'm convinced that the majority of the yearly budget goes to sports and gym. Whatever happened to schools teaching you things? I'm there to learn, not to run in circles for an hour. Needless to say, I'm not on any teams.

Thankfully, band isn't mandatory, either.

Speaking of music, people always seem to think I'm insane for disliking popular music. Hip-hop? Hard rock? Pop? Rap? No thanks! I can't stand it! Then when I tell them I generally only like classical music, it's like I have leprosy.

I swear, these people... it'd just be nice to exist in a place where the knee-jerk reaction isn't criticism or ridicule.

Ah well. I'll never have to go back come June.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-01, 07:47 PM
Ask your parents to get you a second opinion. Ask them if they really think a single evaluation years ago was definitive. My guess is without a physical test like DNA evaluation or a particular blood test, any single opinion would have a very wide margin of error.

My neighbor's grandchild has the syndrome. She knows a lot about it. She tells me persons with it are very intelligent.

We all have different things in our genetics or other biological life influences to deal with. I come from a long genetic line of depressed persons on my dad's side. All of the relatives I know of on his side including him became alcoholics. But with this knowledge, I have more tools to deal with the disease. I know what I'm at risk for so I don't drink. I recognized my unusual depression symptoms and have been on successful drug treatment for years.

So knowing about any diagnosis, should it turn out to be true and it may not be, doesn't change who you are. It just gives you more insight with which to live your life happily and successfully.

Candy
2005-Jan-01, 08:29 PM
From the first link.

We've probably all read the stories about famous people who possibly had Asperger's Syndrome, but were undiagnosed. The names mentioned range from Albert Einstein to Thomas Jefferson. These people lived or became adults before the diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome or high functioning autism even existed, so no one can tell for sure if they had this condition or not, but they shared common characteristics with adults who have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome today.
I don't think this sounds like a bad thing to have. It's like an elite club. 8)

Here's another website (http://www.aspergers.com/aspclin.htm).

They usually have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or history.

Candy
2005-Jan-01, 08:32 PM
Oh no, I looked at the list, and checked all 10! :o

My mother said, as a child, I never got dirty. I never cried. It was like I was a doll. I brought her a bag full of butterflies once. I don't remember this, but can you imagine how long catching butterflies would have taken?
My mother told me that I never cried, and when their friends came over, I was so quiet that they remarked that they didn't even know I existed.
I was always told what nice manners I had "for speaking only when spoken to". :-?

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-01, 08:34 PM
I was diagnosed with that... More often referred to as "Asperger's Disorder", but as far as I'm concerned, it's the guys obsessed with categorizing these things who have the disorder. :roll:

(Yes, I've been through Medication Hell too... Some psychiatrists don't get "If it ain't broken, don't fix it".)

Edit: Mickal... It really is not a big deal. Technically, I would say "Asperger's Syndrome" is more a way of categorizing a relatively socially inept personality type than an actual disorder... Not sure about the organic causes of it, but it seems to me that trying to "fix" people who have it is a waste of time at best, and tyrannical at worst.

cyswxman
2005-Jan-01, 08:35 PM
Here's another website (http://www.aspergers.com/aspclin.htm).

They usually have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or history.
(emphasis mine) AHHHHH!!! :o :o :o

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-01, 08:40 PM
Hmm... Is it just me, or is it the case that "Asperger's Syndrome" = "geekiness"?

Candy
2005-Jan-01, 08:41 PM
Here's another website (http://www.aspergers.com/aspclin.htm).

They usually have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or history.
(emphasis mine) AHHHHH!!! :o :o :o
We may have to change the forum's name to Bad Asperger's Bulletin Board - the true BABB. :wink:

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-01, 08:59 PM
LOL! :lol:

My situation seems to be almost exactly like Joe the Dude's... Except that I like sports, I just don't like the idiots that populate Phys-Ed classes. :roll:

The biggest problem with "Asperger's syndrome" "mild autism", "geekiness", or whatever the heck you want to call it - at least in my experience - seems to be other peoples' reactions. Jerks, be they "normal" or "Aspergerish", will hate you the moment they see you. Throughout my time in school, I've been insulted, attacked (I mean "physically attacked", as in "strangled, punched, kicked, and thrown bodily over large distances with no provocation whatsoever), teased, and generally looked down upon. And I've seen this happen to other kids, dozens of them.

You know what? It's always the ones at the recieving end of things, the "geeks", the "nerds", the ones who other people think have "issues", who are my friends.

Candy
2005-Jan-01, 09:32 PM
The biggest problem with "Asperger's syndrome" "mild autism", "geekiness", or whatever the heck you want to call it - at least in my experience - seems to be other peoples' reactions. Jerks, be they "normal" or "Aspergerish", will hate you the moment they see you. Throughout my time in school, I've been insulted, attacked (I mean "physically attacked", as in "strangled, punched, kicked, and thrown bodily over large distances with no provocation whatsoever), teased, and generally looked down upon. And I've seen this happen to other kids, dozens of them.

You know what? It's always the ones at the recieving end of things, the "geeks", the "nerds", the ones who other people think have "issues", who are my friends.
Wait until you get into the real world. I’ve often wondered why some people just take an instant dislike to me. I’ve never done anything to warrant such behavior (in my eyes). I am starting to wonder if it is because of my ‘lack’ of social skills. Apparently, in a ‘normal’ world, people like to communicate.

Well, I don’t initiate the conversation. For example, when people ask me how I am doing. I say, great. I don’t follow with another question, therefore, avoiding a conversation. I just don’t find exchanging pleasantries interesting. For this, I am often thought of as snobbish or cold.

Ask about my work, school, or hobbies, and then I can talk for hours. I guess it’s just a compatibility issue. I've gotten this far by being myself. I'm not going to change what makes me happy just to fit in to what I deem as a dysfunctional society. :D

mickal555
2005-Jan-01, 10:17 PM
Here's another website (http://www.aspergers.com/aspclin.htm).

They usually have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or history.
(emphasis mine) AHHHHH!!! :o :o :o
My comp died so I can't reply to every message but I don't know why astonomy and meterology are is the same catagree as being interested in doorknobs?

Candy
2005-Jan-01, 11:11 PM
I don't understand the door knobs/henges, either.

Adults with Asperger's Syndrome often go undiagnosed (http://www.faaas.org/articles.html)

Asperger's affects each person uniquely, Attwood said. It is composed of an array of qualities, in varying degrees. At the workshop, Attwood mapped out the characteristics, problems, and recommend strategies.

A profile of abilities common to Asperger's includes:

• Codes of social conduct: "They are mind-myopic," Attwood said. "They can't know what other people are thinking or feeling. They are not badly brought up, or trying to upset you. They are just unaware of the social script. It is as if they were from another culture, and unaware of our norms."

• Empathy: "When we look at empathy, it's very complicated. In a relationship with a partner, that is crucial--knowing when you need emotional support," Attwood said. Those with Asperger's may have trouble understanding a partner's feelings, and vise versa.

• Friendship skills: "They may find it hard to meet peers on an equal level, be uninterested in friendship, or rely on their spouse for advice on office politics and teamwork," he said.

• Characterization of people: They "may see others in black and white, as either likable or not, or be poor judges of character and get taken advantage of. The spouse must take his or her care-taking role seriously," he said.

• Art of conversation: Neurotypical people look for patterns when communicating verbally to find the general meaning, he said, but "Asperger's people create their own pattern or, if they cannot, remember the whole message and may miss what is important."

Attwood noted that Asperger's may also be characterized by a strong desire for perfection, a special interest or talent, a fondness for routine, poor coordination, high cognitive skills, low organizational skills, and uneven processing of sensory input--being more or less sensitive than most.
:-k

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-01, 11:42 PM
My God... I hate it when "normal" people typify us as unfeeling, uncaring freaks! :evil:


Codes of social conduct: "They are mind-myopic," Attwood said. "They can't know what other people are thinking or feeling. They are not badly brought up, or trying to upset you. They are just unaware of the social script. It is as if they were from another culture, and unaware of our norms."

True, at least partially. Some more socially apt "Aspergerish" individuals seem to understand social phenomena, but dislike social games; others (I think I'm one of these) are more or less "socially disabled".


Empathy: "When we look at empathy, it's very complicated. In a relationship with a partner, that is crucial--knowing when you need emotional support," Attwood said. Those with Asperger's may have trouble understanding a partner's feelings, and vise versa.


This is unmittigated **.


Friendship skills: "They may find it hard to meet peers on an equal level, be uninterested in friendship, or rely on their spouse for advice on office politics and teamwork," he said.


Depends on the person. Most "Aspergerish" people I know find it pretty easy to make friends with others like them, people who share their interests, or just people who are kind to them in general. I would say that the biggest barrier to forming friendships is the sheer hostility of other individuals.


Characterization of people: They "may see others in black and white, as either likable or not, or be poor judges of character and get taken advantage of. The spouse must take his or her care-taking role seriously," he said.


More **. The only correct part of this - and only partially correct - involves being "taken advantage of", since people with Asperger's syndrome tend to be more or less socially inept.


Art of conversation: Neurotypical people look for patterns when communicating verbally to find the general meaning, he said, but "Asperger's people create their own pattern or, if they cannot, remember the whole message and may miss what is important."


Bull.

Some "Aspergerish" people run off at the mouth and ignore cues that tell them the other party is bored or uninterested, but so do plenty of "normal" people, so I'm not sure if that can be classified as a symptom.


Attwood noted that Asperger's may also be characterized by a strong desire for perfection

May be the case.


a special interest or talent

Almost always the case. May not always be a single interest.


a fondness for routine

This seems to be assumed for almost everyone who isn't categorized as "neurotypical", Asperger's Syndrome or not. Not sure if it applies to people with other "disorders" (e.g. ADD/ADHD), but I frankly have never seen it with "Aspergerish" sorts.


poor coordination

Absolute **.


high cognitive skills

Often true, but not universally true.


low organizational skills

Varies from person to person.


and uneven processing of sensory input--being more or less sensitive than most.

Never heard of it, never seen any evidence that it is the case.

Brady Yoon
2005-Jan-02, 12:51 AM
I find social situations confusing.

Usually no, but sometimes, when I'm at a wild party with all this crazy stuff going on, I get really nervous. But when I'm with my family or people I know well and like, I can talk for hours on end.

I find it hard to make small talk.

Lol, definitely no. I am pretty much talking all the time. My parents always say I talk about useless stuff, and so do my friends.

I did not enjoy imaginative story-writing at school.

Somewhere in the middle. I enjoy it, but I'm not very good at it.

I am good at picking up details and facts.

Definitely. I can read something once and I usually remember most of it.

I find it hard to work out what other people are thinking and feeling.

I can usually tell what people are thinking and emotional stuff.

I can focus on certain things for very long periods.

No, I am a little hyperactive and can't sit down for more than an hour unless it's something fun.

People often say I was rude even when this was not intended.

Yeah, I have the feeling that people think I'm weird or rude sometimes.

I have unusually strong, narrow interests.

Some things yes, such as astronomy, science, and certain books, but other things no. I also enjoy playing sports, video games, and I am overall a social person.

I do certain things in an inflexible, repetitive way.

Definitely no. I hate routines. I didn't see the point of making your bed or cleaning your room (it's gonna get messy anyway). Now i do. :)

I have always had difficulty making friends.

Not making friends, but keeping them. They would always drift away from me after a while.

I guess I don't have Asperger's Syndrome, but I am shy in certain social situations.

Brady Yoon
2005-Jan-02, 12:57 AM
Student council-I think it's really stupid. The council is just snobby and made up of popular people who don't care about the student body. Just trying to get some college credit. I think the student council is just a ploy to show that the students have some power in the school's decisions. That's ****.

Debate team-I think it's very useful. Opinions are very important and I think understanding other's opinions and evaluating yours are a way to learn more about the world, and how your beliefs may be biased. I am planning to join my school's team.

School newspaper-It's a good thing, but yes, they are also full of snobbish people with very little skill in writing.

Creative writing-Very important. Arts and science must progress together.

Band-I was in it in middle school, but now I am very annoyed at it. Youpay $500 a year and you waste all that time... It's fun, but a waste of resources and time.

Sports-I love sports. :D

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-02, 12:59 AM
As I mentioned before... "Asperger's syndrome" differs from person to person to enough of an extent that I do not think it can be seriously classified as a single organic disorder.

Edit: Whoops... Social ineptness kicking in here... I only read the second 1/3 of your post.

Yep, I doubt that any (sane) psychiatrist would classify you as having Asperger's syndrome.

(Creative writing? I daresay I'd like it... If it were creative. Generally, the "creative writing" assignments I've been given are something like "write this about this specific scenario using this specific thing I've taught you", i.e. not very creative. :lol: )

um3k
2005-Jan-02, 01:45 AM
There's nothing wrong with having aspergers. I've got it.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-02, 02:20 AM
There is an awful lot of describing here about this syndrome that has way too much room for interpretation. It has correlations to reading one's horoscope. You can read yourself in or out of the description. I thought it might be useful to post the actual psychiatric definition/description. It has a bit less room for subjective interpretation.

Diagnostic Criteria For 299.80 Asperger's Disorder (http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/)
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia I think it is important to note the adjectives: marked, failure, lack of, preoccupation, inflexible, significant impairment, etc., etc.

I don't see many of those words in the descriptions in this thread. I also don't see those traits necessarily in Gullible, kucharek, Brady, nor Mickal, though clearly I have little to observe other than posts.

We all have personality traits that aren't perfect. I don't think that means we have a disorder. After reading the diagnostic criteria, I feel even stronger that whoever assessed Mickal was not able to make a definitive diagnosis. I would strongly advise you to share this post with your parents Mickal. They may have accepted some poorly skilled psychologist's conclusions and believed all this time you had a syndrome you may not have.

On the other hand, since we can't measure or test something physical, and don't know enough about this syndrome, there may be many very mild cases that have the causative factors but don't really meet the diagnostic criteria. In other words, a person could have it and not be seriously affected. In such a case, does it even matter?

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-02, 03:13 AM
BTW... Medline says that Asperger's disorder is synonimous with PDD. This is not the case, as anyone who knows someone with PDD would know.


A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:


I've met supposedly "Aspergerish" kids who display none of the following. (Well, unless you count #4, because I have no freaking idea what that is. #-o )


1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction

Again, varies from person to person, and may or may not be so obvious. Also varies with the person you're socailizing with and the subject of a conversation!


2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level


We make friends with those who we want to. If someone acts in an offensive or openly hostile manner, or just displays a lack of interest in me, then I will probably not try to befriend them; the same is probably the case with "normal" individuals.


3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

**, plain and simple. Not a single "Aspergerish" person I know of has displayed this "symptom" regularly.


4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity


Umm... "social or emotional reciprocity"? Sorry folks, but I don't think I'm fit to comment on something unless I know what the heck it means. :oops: D'oh...



B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:


Broad categorization for completely different things, ain't it? Having an interest in, say, the workings of automobiles is very different from prepetually wringing your hands... :roll:



1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus


i.e. "being very, very skilled or interested in one or more things". Plenty of "normal" people are like this. Oh sure, there is the occasional case where a person knows everything to know about deep-fat fryers or something, but doesn't everyone have a few quirks?


2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals


Never seen it.


3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)


Again, never seen it.


4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


Would be nice if that was a bit more specific... What objects? Objects the person is interested in? Random objects? Imagined objects?


C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning


People hate you on first sight, and who does everyone blame? Yep, that's right - you. How bloody typical.



D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)


Generally the case, although I have known a few "Aspergerish" kids who didn't start talking at all until 3 or 4 years. I'm guessing that that is unrelated.


E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood


Generally the case, except for people who, for some reason or another, just aren't very good at taking care of themselves.


F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia

Somehow, I doubt that schizophrenia and Asperger's syndrome are mutually incompatible.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-02, 04:50 AM
Gullible, I'm not sure who diagnosed you nor how certain you are of your diagnosis, so don't assume my comments here are meaningful in your case. But if you take a person with a psychiatric diagnosis and try to change the diagnostic criteria to fit the person, you really aren't correct. The criteria are established because at this point in psychiatric medicine, we don't have better ways of determining if a person really has an impairment. If the description doesn't fit you, maybe you have been incorrectly diagnosed.
BTW... Medline says that Asperger's disorder is synonymous with PDD. This is not the case, as anyone who knows someone with PDD would know.Sometimes disorders overlap or a person can have more than one disorder. PDD is addressed in criteria F below.

Medline is a source for research citations. Are you sure you aren't talking about some other site?



A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

I've met supposedly "Aspergerish" kids who display none of the following. (Well, unless you count #4, because I have no freaking idea what that is. #-o )An example of #4 would be a kid who doesn't smile when smiled at on a very consistent basis. If you have met kids who don't meet these criteria, you are not necessarily a trained observer, or perhaps you are not seeing enough of them to observe the behavior, or they do not have the syndrome.



1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction

Again, varies from person to person, and may or may not be so obvious. Also varies with the person you're socializing with and the subject of a conversation!'Marked impairment' is a subjective assessment, however, it wouldn't have to be zero ability or occurrences. In addition, one only needs 2 of the 4 criteria. That allows for varying degrees of severity in the syndrome.



2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level.

We make friends with those who we want to. If someone acts in an offensive or openly hostile manner, or just displays a lack of interest in me, then I will probably not try to befriend them; the same is probably the case with "normal" individuals.Again, you are trying to fit the diagnosis to the person, instead of the person to the diagnosis.



3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

**, plain and simple. Not a single "Aspergerish" person I know of has displayed this "symptom" regularly.So how do you know they are "Aspergerish"? The person must fit the criteria to be diagnosed with Asperger's. It isn't the criteria that are incorrect, Gullible. The criteria are the syndrome.



4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity

Umm... "social or emotional reciprocity"? Sorry folks, but I don't think I'm fit to comment on something unless I know what the heck it means. :oops: D'oh...see above



B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

Broad categorization for completely different things, ain't it? Having an interest in, say, the workings of automobiles is very different from perpetually wringing your hands... :roll: Psychiatrists have PhDs, psychologists have **, MS or PhDs. Their education includes extensive work with these diagnostic criteria. Psychiatric definitions of these terms and observational skills are included. The diagnosing skills and objectivity vary considerably from practitioner to practitioner just as the skills of medical providers differ.

At the same time, there is a certain range which allows consistent diagnoses between practitioners. Some diagnoses are very clear such as schizophrenia. Others are less so.

The bottom line is a practitioner with a good reputation, or similar opinions from multiple practitioners is more likely to mean an accurate psychiatric diagnosis has been made. There are a lot of bad diagnoses made in milder psychiatric disorders.



1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

i.e. "being very, very skilled or interested in one or more things". Plenty of "normal" people are like this. Oh sure, there is the occasional case where a person knows everything to know about deep-fat fryers or something, but doesn't everyone have a few quirks?Abnormal can range from barely to obviously. When behavior must be judged, there is no magic indicator that says this crosses the line. In fact, we have a lot of people diagnosed with "borderline personality disorder". That should tell you the range of behaviors goes from not ill to ill on a continuum. Again, there is no magic marker that says you crossed the line if you are near the middle.



2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals


Never seen it.see above comments



3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

Again, never seen it.see above comments



4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

Would be nice if that was a bit more specific... What objects? Objects the person is interested in? Random objects? Imagined objects?Again, it is one's medical education that gives a person the skill to interpret this criteria and make the appropriate observations to detect it.



C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

People hate you on first sight, and who does everyone blame? Yep, that's right - you. How bloody typical.Perhaps you need a little self esteem boosting, Gullible. I like you. :D



D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)


Generally the case, although I have known a few "Aspergerish" kids who didn't start talking at all until 3 or 4 years. I'm guessing that that is unrelated.Words at age two and phrases at age 3 is well within normal limits. What they are saying here is delayed language is not part of the syndrome. It doesn't mean a person with the syndrome does or does not have language delay, only that language delay gives you no evidence of Asperger's one way or the other.



E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

Generally the case, except for people who, for some reason or another, just aren't very good at taking care of themselves.see comment for D.



F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia

Somehow, I doubt that schizophrenia and Asperger's syndrome are mutually incompatible.I believe what they mean here is these criteria are a subset of PDD and schizophrenia criteria. If you looked at the diagnostic criteria for the other disorders, these would be included.

For example, say a person has symptoms A & B. Symptoms A&B are present in disease X. The person has disease X.

But disease Y has symptoms A,B & C. If the person has symptoms A,B & C in this case, they would have disease Y. You would not use the presence of symptoms A & B to say they had both diseases. Having symptom C indicates Y is a more accurate diagnosis than X & Y together.

The criteria were developed based on most of the available data about these diseases and disorders at the time and are updated as needed. The purpose was to start putting mental illness in more objective light. Not all of these diseases present themselves in neat little packets. The diagnostic criteria are useful to determine the best course of treatment or for identifying disorders that may have the same underlying causes so research can begin to understand and treat what is going on. The criteria are not merely to 'label' a disorder.

*side note: calling mental disorders illnesses, diseases or other negative names is a problem because we make it that way, but it is incorrect. One does not have the same stigma concerning all diagnoses. A diagnosis of diabetes probably wouldn't have elicited the same reaction as Michal had in hearing he might have Asperger's. There should be no difference. What ever it is it doesn't make you a different person. So you have a malfunction in your brain or your pancreas, what's the difference? Maybe the brain malfunction makes you better in some ways and causes minor problems in other ways. Maybe the malfunction is completely compensable. Maybe it isn't. It really doesn't change you, the person. You have the same value as anyone else, diseased or perfect. Besides, very few of us are perfect.

mickal555
2005-Jan-02, 04:59 AM
Hmm... Is it just me, or is it the case that "Asperger's Syndrome" = "geekiness"?
I dunno I'm not really a geeky person and I enjoy sport....
BTW
I used to grt bullied but no were near as much as GJ

Empathy: "When we look at empathy, it's very complicated. In a relationship with a partner, that is crucial--knowing when you need emotional support," Attwood said. Those with Asperger's may have trouble understanding a partner's feelings, and vise versa.


I know I don't have trouble with empathy I've taken IQ test for IQ I get 120 and for EQ tests I get 130 bigest strength being empathy and knowing what other people are thinking or feeling.


Codes of social conduct: "They are mind-myopic," Attwood said. "They can't know what other people are thinking or feeling. They are not badly brought up, or trying to upset you. They are just unaware of the social script. It is as if they were from another culture, and unaware of our norms."

I don't like this attwood guy he way the one who got me so upset after watching his lecture on vidio (metioned in my previouse post) going on about how we don't wear deodreint. He has AS ya'know.


and uneven processing of sensory input--being more or less sensitive than most.
yeah I've heard of this I don't dislpay it, though, but many parents and adults with AS report that they start to stim(flapping of hands rocking etc..) when they go out and they have sencery overloads.



Edit: Whoops... Social ineptness kicking in here... I only read the second 1/3 of your post.

Yep, I doubt that any (sane) psychiatrist would classify you as having Asperger's syndrome.


I dunno, I mean I can get upset somtimes (not at school) but the main thing is that they assesed me at the worst year of my life.. I mean it was a blur (i'd cry all the time) I kept doing this until I said STOP no more support if I have support I don't look after myself I colapse into a dependent dead mess.

Tensor
2005-Jan-02, 05:38 AM
For example, when people ask me how I am doing. I say, great.

Mess with their minds Candy, say "I'm not unwell". They have to think about that one and most people hate to have to think about it. Credit for that goes to George Carlin.

2005-Jan-02, 07:57 AM
Here's another website (http://www.aspergers.com/aspclin.htm).

They usually have a circumscribed area of interest which usually leaves no space for more age appropriate, common interests. Some examples are cars, trains, French Literature, door knobs, hinges, cappucino, meteorology, astronomy or history.
(emphasis mine) AHHHHH!!! :o :o :o

METEOROLOGY? :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o


Light graupel falling just now!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

mickal555
2005-Jan-02, 02:12 PM
For example, when people ask me how I am doing. I say, great.

Mess with their minds Candy, say "I'm not unwell". They have to think about that one and most people hate to have to think about it. Credit for that goes to George Carlin.
If they say "what up" give em' a lecture on astonomy or meterology..... :lol: j/k

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-02, 02:31 PM
"Sensory overload"... That's another thing that annoys me. What the hell is the definition of that? Sounds like something a quack alternative practitioner would talk about.

(Oh, sensory overload? That's when that musclebound 6-foot-tall 200-pound jerk grabs you by the throat and starts pounding away at you with no provocation whatsoever!)

Beskeptical:

What I am saying is that it does not seem to me that "Asperger's syndrome" is fit to be classified as a single well-defined "disorder". I'm not saying that the symptoms should be changed to fit the patient; I'm saying that patients who do not fit within this relatively narrow range of symptoms, but don't seem quite "normal", should not just be diagnosed on the fly with Asperger's disorder.


Gullible Jones wrote:diagnostic criteria wrote:2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level.


We make friends with those who we want to. If someone acts in an offensive or openly hostile manner, or just displays a lack of interest in me, then I will probably not try to befriend them; the same is probably the case with "normal" individuals.
Again, you are trying to fit the diagnosis to the person, instead of the person to the diagnosis.


No, I'm pointing out that the diagnosis is stupid.

"How do you know they are 'Aspergerish'?" you say? The people I'm talking about have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. When you don't need to display the symptoms of an ailment to be diagnosed with it, I suspect something is wrong!

Thank you for any corrections with regard to the medical stuff... But trust me, you have no idea of the stuff people have to go through because of some cocked-up "diagnosis". If you're going to put someone through hell, you need a damn good reason.

mickal555
2005-Jan-02, 02:36 PM
"Sensory overload"... That's another thing that annoys me. What the hell is the definition of that? Sounds like something a quack alternative practitioner would talk about.

(Oh, sensory overload? That's when that musclebound 6-foot-tall 200-pound jerk grabs you by the throat and starts pounding away at you with no provocation whatsoever!)


I think Sensory overload is more commen in autism or somthing they used to thing i did that and my teacher would say c'mon lets leave you don't like all this do you? ad I was just like: oh nahh I'm all right "no c'mon louad noises upset you"

Tranquility
2005-Jan-02, 02:44 PM
GJ,

It's not just you. Asperger's symptoms do sound like being geeky.
Anyway regarding the set of characteristics in Asperger's "patients" for want of a better word, if they happen to exist in other people as well, I don't see the problem with that. For all or most of these characteristics are to be combined in a person then there is reason to think that he/she might have Asperger's, and the fact that some of these symptoms may occur isolated in other people doesn't mean that this set of characteristics that identifies those who have Asperger's, is wrong.

jamestox
2005-Jan-02, 02:53 PM
"Sensory overload"... That's another thing that annoys me. What the hell is the definition of that?

"Sensory Overload" - def. The feeling that so much is happening so quickly that the senses cannot keep track of, nor mentally organize all the things the senses are introducing to the cognitive processes at a given time. Example: sitting in the second row during Cirque du Soleil's performance of either Varekai or La Nouba.

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Been there, done that, got the coffee cup and program.

:wink:

mickal555
2005-Jan-02, 02:58 PM
"Sensory overload"... That's another thing that annoys me. What the hell is the definition of that?

"Sensory Overload" - def. The feeling that so much is happening so quickly that the senses cannot keep track of, nor mentally organize all the things the senses are introducing to the cognitive processes at a given time. Example: sitting in the second row during Cirque du Soleil's performance of either Varekai or La Nouba.

: :wink:
swish

mickal555
2005-Jan-02, 03:06 PM
I'm beging to think this scencery thig is a myth I've never had it even though I did play up, and they used this excuse. I've never felt overloaded or anything?

jamestox
2005-Jan-02, 03:10 PM
:D

Get second-row tickets for Varekai.

Tell me (honestly) you can keep track of more than half of everything going on during the finale.

:wink:

A Thousand Pardons
2005-Jan-02, 05:17 PM
No, I'm pointing out that the diagnosis is stupid.

"How do you know they are 'Aspergerish'?" you say? The people I'm talking about have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. When you don't need to display the symptoms of an ailment to be diagnosed with it, I suspect something is wrong!
You have to be careful. Physicians do make mistakes, and some are outright dangerous, but most are competent and caring. You are making a personal diagnosis without access to their medical history, and without training. I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that you should be careful.

Human
2005-Jan-02, 06:15 PM
I have got the diagnosis Asperger syndrome also.

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-02, 07:03 PM
Wow. How mant BABB members is that?

I know most psychiatrists are perfectly good people... I just think they should try to force psychological "standards" a bit less. People are different, that's perfectly normal... So long as they don't cause trouble for themselves or for others, don't mess around.

The idea here is that people shouldn't go trying to fix nonexistant problems.

kucharek
2005-Jan-02, 07:47 PM
Wow. How mant BABB members is that?

When you look at the list of what Aspergers like and dislike, I wouldn't be surprised if a higher than average percentage of active BABB members have that syndrome...

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-02, 08:15 PM
"Higher than average" as in 30%? :lol:

beskeptical
2005-Jan-02, 09:28 PM
Gullible, I think we agree here but might be talking apples and oranges. Are you saying you have the disorder and at the same time saying you don't agree with the diagnosis?

ATP is correct in that most physicians get it right most of the time. That doesn't mean only physicians are out there telling people they or their kids have this or that syndrome. I don't think legitimate practitioners would make such a diagnosis as Asperger's without careful and sufficient observations.

Asperger's is not something one has because they have some traits resembling it. Either one meets the diagnostic criteria or they don't have it. Sometimes it is difficult to assess whether certain behaviors are or are not present. There are also a lot of misunderstandings about the diagnoses of kids' behavior disorders. That is why I, personally, would want a second opinion for a child behavior diagnosis if it were my child.

You don't want to make such diagnoses the same way you read your horoscope and decide if it fits you or not. A person untrained in such assessments is just not capable of doing so.

As a nurse practitioner, I make lots of diagnoses. But I did not just read a description and go from there. As I learned what the description meant in medical contexts, I changed a general term in my mind to a very specific one I use in an assessment. The same is true in evaluating psychiatric symptoms. Antisocial, fixation and other such terms have very specific meanings in psychiatry that differ from the broader use of the terms in everyday language.

On another subject, here, "if it ain't broke don't fix it", not every diagnosis requires an intervention. Identifying a child with Asperger's gives the parent and child better understanding of certain behaviors and tools to deal with behaviors as needed.

A parent may be concerned that their toddler doesn't smile and giggle like other kids. Just knowing why and knowing what to expect in the future is very comforting.

My neighbor's grandchild gets very focused on computer games. So she uses the games as a way to interact. Without knowing what was going on, she may have instead demanded the computer games only be played at specific times, only to become frustrated that denying the game play did not result in the child finding other things to do.

I don't think my neighbor is worried her grandchild will not be able to have a normal and healthy life. No one is labeling the child then saying it will limit his potential or that he needs medication or he will never have friends. Do you see the description of Asperger's as a denial the patients can function with such limitations? In other words, why are you upset, if I'm reading you correctly, with certain parts of the diagnostic criteria?

And, finally, I must point out that behavior 'disorder' is not the term I prefer to use. Language has effect by itself. It's a syndrome, meaning a collection of certain symptoms or indicators that define a thing. Not everyone would define the behaviors of Asperger's as bad. So what if a person prefers their computer to humans? That may be bad in one person's opinion, but neutral in another's.

The behaviors in Asperger's syndrome are just behaviors. They aren't 'bad' unless they interfere with the ability to function in the world of other people. Some behaviors and personality traits might make a person more or less successful in the world, but then how one measures success is not always the same.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-02, 09:30 PM
Wow. How mant BABB members is that?

I know most psychiatrists are perfectly good people... I just think they should try to force psychological "standards" a bit less. People are different, that's perfectly normal... So long as they don't cause trouble for themselves or for others, don't mess around.

The idea here is that people shouldn't go trying to fix nonexistant problems.What 'fixes' have been suggested for Asperger's that you disagree with?

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-02, 10:45 PM
The "medicate the living hell out of 'em" fix.

mickal555
2005-Jan-03, 02:50 AM
The "medicate the living hell out of 'em" fix.
When my dad took control over my AS dealings, I'm sure thats what they were telling him. HE suddenly stopped wanting me to take them and even if I wanted, he'd say no. So I've never been druged.

Btw is besceptical saying that if you don't have all these symtoms you don't have it cause I have likr two uot of 50.

BTW,BTW
I'm going to see a phyciatrist soon because I've been upset and I asked my dad.

mickal555
2005-Jan-03, 09:53 AM
My god,
I've spoke to my dad and basicly what he said that report is bunk, and I can throw it out if I like.

Argos
2005-Jan-03, 02:16 PM
I sincerely can´t see it as a problem. The symptoms are so generic and encompass such a broad gamut of behaviors that most of the people can be said to be more or less affected. It´s a non-disease.

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-03, 09:12 PM
Bingo.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-03, 11:26 PM
Btw is besceptical saying that if you don't have all these symtoms you don't have it cause I have likr two uot of 50. Yes, that is what I am saying. Psychiatric disorders are diagnosed based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. I mostly see DSMIII, (volume 3) used but I see there is now a DSMIV.


BTW,BTW
I'm going to see a phyciatrist soon because I've been upset and I asked my dad.Wonderful. Your dad sounds open to communicating with you. That is great.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-03, 11:31 PM
I sincerely can´t see it as a problem. The symptoms are so generic and encompass such a broad gamut of behaviors that most of the people can be said to be more or less affected. It´s a non-disease.The symptoms are not generic. I feel you guys aren't reading my posts. I don't blame you, my posts are dry and technical. The bottom line is don't go by vague interpretations of the symptoms, go by the DSMIII or IV guidelines and remember it is written with medical interpretations of the words in mind, not everyday interpretations.

While there most certainly will be folks with very mild Asperger's there will also be those much more severely affected.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-03, 11:33 PM
The "medicate the living hell out of 'em" fix.That is not what the treatment guidelines from the most respected source on the disorder says.
Asperger's Syndrome
Guidelines for Treatment and Intervention
by Ami Klin, Ph.D., and Fred R. Volkmar, M.D.
Yale Child Study Center, New Haven, Connecticut
Published by the Learning Disabilities Association of America, June 1995 (http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/astreatments.html)
Pharmacotherapy

Although little information about pharmacological interventions with individuals with AS is available, a conservative approach based on the evidence from autism should probably be adopted (McDougle, Price, and Volkmar, 1994). In general, pharmacological interventions with young children are probably best avoided. Specific medication might be indicated if AS is accompanied by debilitating depressive symptoms, severe obsessions and compulsions, or a thought disorder. It is important for parents to know that medications are prescribed for the treatment of specific symptoms, and not to treat the disorder as a whole.

Lycus
2005-Jan-03, 11:39 PM
a thought disorder
:o

Yeah, I know. I'm sure the actual medical definition is non-threatening. That phrase itself just sounds a bit freaky to this layman. :)

mickal555
2005-Jan-04, 06:34 AM
Ya'know that report that got me so upset was't even supposed to describe me!
My mum and dad are broken up and its been a terribly messy break up I want to live with my dad but my mum wants to take me off him so she's said all sorts of things to say that dads incompodent. One of the things she used my my AS diagnossis, saying that I was't getting the nesseserry suport, and needed somone to talk to. Since I didn't, the school could't just give me somone, cause I needed to be much more severe so they agreed because, since I had this label the school could make up a report and this would allow them to get more funding for the other students who needed help.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-04, 06:56 AM
Whoa, Mickal, that is one complicated story!

Custody battles bring out the worst in people. Lots of things happen that shouldn't. Try to stay out of the he said she said stuff. Most certainly both your parents want custody because they both love you.

It's very hard when a relationship falls apart and people still have things like kids which require them to continue some part of the relationship. Not everyone deals with it well.

If you can, you should try to keep talking to both your parents in an open way. Make sure the one you prefer not to live with knows you still love them. But remember, sometimes these things just don't work out as well as they should and you have to deal with them as they are.

mickal555
2005-Jan-05, 05:25 AM
Whoa, Mickal, that is one complicated story!

Custody battles bring out the worst in people. Lots of things happen that shouldn't. Try to stay out of the he said she said stuff. Most certainly both your parents want custody because they both love you.

It's very hard when a relationship falls apart and people still have things like kids which require them to continue some part of the relationship. Not everyone deals with it well.

If you can, you should try to keep talking to both your parents in an open way. Make sure the one you prefer not to live with knows you still love them. But remember, sometimes these things just don't work out as well as they should and you have to deal with them as they are.
Ok I'll try I'll be at mums house for a week even though I don't feel quite ready to face her
Btw
I started another discussion on this forum :o
http://www.musicmademe.com/asp/viewtopic.php?p=20367#20367

A Thousand Pardons
2005-Jan-22, 11:12 AM
Wow. How mant BABB members is that?

When you look at the list of what Aspergers like and dislike, I wouldn't be surprised if a higher than average percentage of active BABB members have that syndrome...
On another board, in a discussion about whether Einstein had Aspergers, it was mentioned that Einstein's strong sense of humor pretty much proved that he did not have Aspergers to a great degree. BABBers, too. :)

mickal555
2005-Jan-22, 11:17 AM
Who saids people with AS don't have a sense of humor?

Candy
2005-Jan-22, 06:52 PM
On another board, in a discussion about whether Einstein had Aspergers, it was mentioned that Einstein's strong sense of humor pretty much proved that he did not have Aspergers to a great degree. BABBers, too. :)


From the first link.

We've probably all read the stories about famous people who possibly had Asperger's Syndrome, but were undiagnosed. The names mentioned range from Albert Einstein to Thomas Jefferson. These people lived or became adults before the diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome or high functioning autism even existed, so no one can tell for sure if they had this condition or not, but they shared common characteristics with adults who have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome today.
I don't think this sounds like a bad thing to have. It's like an elite club. 8)

Do I get brownie points for mentioning Einstein earlier in this thread? 8-[

Doodler
2005-Jan-22, 07:00 PM
Interesting, I checked all ten. I wonder if the fact that I can live my life without feeling the need to impose myself or have myself imposed upon makes me abnormal?

They should not let hippies practice psychology at any level.

Ya know, from a certain perspective, this article brings back memories of a commercial about social anxiety disorder. Same dessert, different flavor.

Kebsis
2005-Jan-22, 07:57 PM
You are just moments away from getting a FREE DelphiBasic membership.

Wow, that's rough.

Sticks
2005-Sep-09, 09:12 AM
I was diagnosed with AS in July. In the UK we use something called ICD 10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICD-10)

I am now a member of a group called North East Neuro Diverse Adults (NENDA)

I am also now their webmaster for the NENDA website (http://www.neurodiversity-northeast.org.uk)

The wavey arm alien was originally a static picture, but I animated it. I am told that others who set up the site prior to my involvement got the alien picture from the internet. I would love to know if anyone recognises it so I can see where it comes from, as when I heard that it was not produced by a NENDA member, I did get concerns over copyright issues. :confused:

Halcyon Dayz
2005-Sep-09, 08:34 PM
Hang in there, Mickal.
We love you, man.

Sticks
2005-Sep-10, 05:16 AM
One thing I observed is that I went from Sticks (Weird Person) to Sticks a person with Aspergers.

I lost me somewhere

N C More
2005-Sep-10, 11:47 AM
Ya know, why does everything have to be considered to be a "disorder"? I suspect that each and every one of us has *something* that differs from the norm. Everybody is weird in some respect. As long as one isn't dangerous to others or to oneself...why get caught up worrying about it! Realize that this is only part of who you are, find ways of dealing with it, focus on your strong points, seek out people who accept you for who you are. Nobody should be defined by their "disorder", IMO.

Mickal and Sticks, you are worthwhile, interesting people. You're *you* and that's just fine!

mickal555
2005-Sep-10, 01:46 PM
I'm still in denial...

N C More
2005-Sep-10, 02:17 PM
I'm still in denial...

No need to "deny"...it's only a teeny part of who you are! There's really nothing *wrong* with you, at all! You're the same "you", you always were...you just know a bit more about yourself now. Self realization is a good thing. :)

mickal555
2005-Sep-10, 02:22 PM
Ahh- but thats the problem- I think that the definitions doesn't describe me in any way shape of form.

I know nothing more...

The things that they made about me at school were false, they admited that and have since wiped them...

Where does that leave me...

N C More
2005-Sep-10, 02:43 PM
Ahh- but thats the problem- I think that the definitions doesn't describe me in any way shape of form.

I know nothing more...

The things that they made about me at school were false, they admited that and have since wiped them...

Where does that leave me...

Well, if the shoe doesn't fit...don't wear it! If the "label" isn't accurate for you then just forget it about it. Life's too short to worry about stuff like this. Focus on your school work, activities you enjoy, people you like to hang out with...you get the picture.

My son has a language disability, he has a real hard time with grammar, syntax, spelling etc. What does he do? He just deals with it and he's a pretty happy guy, manages to do quite well academically. Don't worry! Be happy!

Sticks
2005-Sep-10, 03:24 PM
What I found unsettling is that when I disclosed this to certain people, I got a response along the line that they suspected this was the case some time before I had really heard of AS :eek:

In the case of two of my siblings, they debated wether I had AS, six years ago

Also when I have given people a brochure from the National Autistic Society (http://www.nas.org.uk) they have said it perfectly described me.

I thought I was weird and unique, the mold was nuked when I was made.

Now I have become, just another person with classic AS

I lost me somewhere along the way :(

hippietrekx
2005-Sep-10, 06:47 PM
Ah, don't worry mickal. When I was six I kept falling down. A lot. I went to the doctor with mom, and was diagnosed with some inner-ear abnormality that had no fix. It had a really big name then, and I still forget what it's called. Meh, just shows I really don't care that I'm not like everyone else (then again who'd want to be?!). Nothing I can do about it right? I still fall down while walking and get dizzy if I stand up too fast.

It's easier to deal with something you can't help when just realize you can't help it. Besides, no one really cares that Albert Einstien had AS, right? I mean, Al is my hero. Hey! Mickal, if you get really crazy white hair, you can be my honorary hero! :) Same goes for you, too, Sticks.

--The gravitationally-challenged hipster

mickal555
2005-Sep-11, 02:25 PM
Well, if the shoe doesn't fit...don't wear it! If the "label" isn't accurate for you then just forget it about it. Life's too short to worry about stuff like this.

*Kicks off inaccuarate shoe!

What's funny is that most of the "traits" were by-products of my bizzire sence of humer.

Yey!

I still think I'm weird- just not in an AS way.