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Kebsis
2005-Jan-05, 03:09 PM
Today I would like to cook a medium rare cheeseburger. I have no patties so I'm gonna have to roll the burger from ground beef. What is the ideal diameter, width, and cook time I should use to make it perfect? So that the inside is done cooking before the outside cooks beyond medium rare.

Thanks

Wally
2005-Jan-05, 03:33 PM
Uhm Keb. . . You're from NJ. . . as in New Jersey. . . as in New Jersey, USA . . .

. . . and you're asking for directions on how to cook a hamburger????

:o

PyroFreak
2005-Jan-05, 03:39 PM
I'm certainly no expert in cooking hamburgers, but medium rare ground beef is not a good idea in my opinion. A steak is ok, because the inside is germ free, just the outside needs cooking, but ground beef is all mixed up, so in my opinion the whole thing needs to be cooked at least medium. If you are going for the more rare kind, a thinner patty, probably 1/2 inch thick, and a little bit bigger than your bun. (I just looked at a ruler for the thickness). My opinion only, have fun!

Severian
2005-Jan-05, 04:08 PM
I'm certainly no expert in cooking hamburgers, but medium rare ground beef is not a good idea in my opinion. A steak is ok, because the inside is germ free, just the outside needs cooking, but ground beef is all mixed up, so in my opinion the whole thing needs to be cooked at least medium....

Also, if you bought it ground, I think that a lot of places use the same grinder for almost everything, including pork, so there could be some trichinae mixed up in your ground beef. If you are grinding it yourself and feel reasonably comfortable with where you got your beef (my understanding is that there *should* be no reason for any nasties to even be on the outside, but who knows what was cut just before your steak with the same knife) then you'd probably be fine, but then medium is almost as good as medium rare, right? ;)

But I am not a butcher nor am I an epidemiologist, so I could be completely wrong :P

Donnie B.
2005-Jan-05, 04:22 PM
The previous posters are correct: the USDA currently recommends cooking all ground beef products to at least the medium stage (no pink in the middle).

Not a problem for me, as I don't like my burgers anything less than medium anyway.

I make my patties about 4 to 4-1/2" across and 1/2" thick. Two of those (with trimmings) is plenty for a meal, even with my all-American appetite. I cook them on a gas grille heated to high, then reduced to medium-high heat when the patties go on. I do them six minutes on the first side, five on the second. Salt and pepper to taste. Serve on toasted wheat roll with cheddar cheese, fried onions and your favorite extras (I like mayo, horseradish, jalapeno peppers, and salsa -- not necessarily all at once).

Argos
2005-Jan-05, 05:01 PM
Serve on toasted wheat roll with cheddar cheese, fried onions and your favorite extras (I like mayo, horseradish, jalapeno peppers, and salsa -- not necessarily all at once).

I would include a leaf of lettuce in the assembly, and mustard. Brazilian way.

Swift
2005-Jan-05, 05:08 PM
And here's a song to play while you're cooking
lyrics (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jimmy-buffett/72071.html)
:D

I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes
Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer
Well good God almighty which way do I steer for my

Chorus:
Cheeseburger in paradise (paradise)
Makin’ the best of every virtue and vice (paradise)
Worth every damn bit of sacrifice (paradise)
To get a cheeseburger in paradise
To be a cheeseburger in paradise
I’m just a cheeseburger in paradise

Parrothead
2005-Jan-05, 05:12 PM
And here's a song to play while you're cooking
lyrics (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jimmy-buffett/72071.html)
:D

I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes
Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer
Well good God almighty which way do I steer for my

Chorus:
Cheeseburger in paradise (paradise)
Makin’ the best of every virtue and vice (paradise)
Worth every damn bit of sacrifice (paradise)
To get a cheeseburger in paradise
To be a cheeseburger in paradise
I’m just a cheeseburger in paradise


LOL! You beat me to it....where's the blender...I know what drink to serve on the side. :wink:

Kaptain K
2005-Jan-05, 05:25 PM
For those with really big appetites, there's also Two triple cheeseburgers, side order of fries by Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen!

A Thousand Pardons
2005-Jan-05, 05:29 PM
Well good God almighty which way do I steer for my
Dew Drop Inn (http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/whereweeat/stern_dewdrop.shtml), been there, got the gumbo.

Kebsis
2005-Jan-05, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the serving suggestions everyone. And for the funny song. Unfortunetly I have no regard for my health when it comes to eating rare burgers. One day, I hope to get or make myself one of these.


http://www.digikitten.com/playhousev2/files/McDurmit/happiest-man-alive.jpg

Tobin Dax
2005-Jan-05, 11:20 PM
Heh, while I do like my burgers at least medium (usually order medium-well to play it safe), and while I don't think I could eat a burger that big, I have eaten a one-pound burger. My dad and I were at a restaurant where this was on the menu when I was 13-15 years old, and being a growing teenage boy, this was a challenge I wanted to take. :D I ate the whole thing and managed to get about half-way through the fries, but I just couldn't finish them there. :-?

Man, now I'm beginning to crave a burger. I better go to another topic.

Celestial Mechanic
2005-Jan-06, 05:29 AM
I always ask for my burgers and steaks to be well-done. I know that the cow is dead, I want to make sure everything else with it is too.

But, to lighten things up a bit, what about the cheese? (Note where I am from, yes, I'm a cheesehead!) I will confess that I use American processed cheese (NOT Velveeta) because it melts evenly. I do not recommend cheddar cheeses for that reason. Of course Swiss and Monterrey Jack are good, and Pepper Jack is good for kicking it up a notch!

Also, how about some of our favorite additives, like mushrooms (I especially like mushroom swiss), lettuce, tomatoes, onions (Raw! Raw! Raw! Death to the breath!).

Now I've got to have one too! :D

Celestial Mechanic
2005-Jan-06, 06:05 AM
Let me also add that I consider Burgers and Fries to be one of the four food groups, the other three being Italian, Mexican, and Chinese!

:D

Wolverine
2005-Jan-06, 06:27 AM
The previous posters are correct: the USDA currently recommends cooking all ground beef products to at least the medium stage (no pink in the middle).

Au contraire :) -- color is not necessarily indicative of doneness/cooking temperature.

Example (http://www.anri.barc.usda.gov/ftsl/foodtech-safety/research/hamburger.html).

Use a meat thermometer and shoot for 160° if you wish to be picky.

Enzp
2005-Jan-06, 06:52 AM
New Jersey??!!?? That was the state that decided a while back that eggs could no longer be served in restaurants unless they were cooked hard. NO more over easy, sunny side up, soft boiled. They were going to save us from the dreaded whatever. Such a hue and cry went up across the land that they recanted. Now all the menus in the world sport the warning that undercooked food can make you ill. They are of the hook, and you can have the eggs as you damn well please.

I like my beef well, but I have little concern over rare meat if served. I even stuff my turkey too, neener neener. Heck, I like sushi.

In the original question an important factor was left out. You can make them whatever size you want. If you want a burger with a cool center and crispy outside, cook them over the hot part of the fire. If you want it more even throughout, as in fairly well cooked inside without the outside getting burned, cook it over the cooler part of the fire, further from the fire. Most grilles have hotter areas and areas away from the flames. Or yu can raise the grille higher above the coals.

You can order grilled meat in a restaurant with the request to cook over the cool or the hot part of the fire for that very reason - depending on how you like the inside to outside relationship.

Charlie in Dayton
2005-Jan-07, 06:11 AM
I remember reading this cheeseburger tip a long time ago...someday I'll have to try it...

Make the patties maybe an inch wider than normal and no more than 3/8" thick. Put the cheese between two patties, and pinch the edges together to seal them. Cook 'em up as normal, just flipping more often to make sure even heating working its way thru.

Presto -- an internally-cheesed burger!!

The article mentioned trying this with bleu (blue?) cheese...hmmm...

Brady Yoon
2005-Jan-07, 06:18 AM
Yum... getting hungry here. :)

Wolverine
2005-Jan-07, 07:38 AM
The article mentioned trying this with bleu (blue?) cheese...hmmm...

:-k That wouldn't be my first choice for a burger, however as I adore bleu cheese, this could be an interesting combination and merits an empirical test at some point.

My contribution would consist of the following:
Toasted, seeded bun (preferably sesame & poppy seed)
Generous 98% lean ground sirloin patty, rather than ordinary ground beef
three strips well-done thickly sliced peppered bacon
2 slices of Boar's Head Muenster cheese
sautéed mushrooms
lightly sautéed Vidalia onion
shredded Romaine lettuce
sliced roma tomato
sliced green or black olives
spicy brown mustard

Mmm. 8)

Enzp
2005-Jan-07, 08:29 AM
I hereby reliquish my share of the world's bleu cheese to y'all. Only thing smells worse than Bleu is feta. Feta trips my gag reflex. I swear, I have moved to a different table in a restaurant because the next table was having feta on something. I would have to really hate the cow to put it on a burger.

Wolverine
2005-Jan-07, 12:52 PM
I'll gladly take both. Feta isn't usually that pungent (at least not the varieties I tend to procure), sorry to hear it turns your stomach. I find it nearly as delightful as Roquefort.

Swift
2005-Jan-07, 03:37 PM
I remember reading this cheeseburger tip a long time ago...someday I'll have to try it...

Make the patties maybe an inch wider than normal and no more than 3/8" thick. Put the cheese between two patties, and pinch the edges together to seal them. Cook 'em up as normal, just flipping more often to make sure even heating working its way thru.

Presto -- an internally-cheesed burger!!

The article mentioned trying this with bleu (blue?) cheese...hmmm...
I've done it - more work, but very good. I don't like bleu cheese on anything, but my wife does use it on her burgers.

Gmann
2005-Jan-07, 05:36 PM
For the ultimate hamburger:

take 1 lb (500GM) of ground beef
1/4 cup bread crumbs
1/4 cup of diced onions
1/4 cup of diced bell peppers
1 Tbsp worcestershire sauce
1 Tsp of fresh ground black pepper
1 Tsp of salt
1 raw egg

mix together in a bowl, form into 1/4 LB patties and cook over Kingsford charcoal briquettes, with a mixture of applewood and Jack Daniels smoking chips. Cook evenly on both sides until juices run clear (no red). Add slice of favorite cheese just before removing from grille.

You can also use Chipotle, Chili, Taco, or Italian seasoning to add a little extra :o to your burger experience.

These amounts are just estimates, since I make 6-8 lbs. of this stuff at a time, and never actually measure anything. I use a hamburger press system that is availiable from any tupperware dealer. It is great, you make the burgers in these plastic molds, they keep forever in the freezer, and always come out a consistent size. Helpful hint, use a food scale to make your patties the same weight.

That's how you "git 'er done" :D

pghnative
2005-Jan-07, 06:31 PM
New Jersey??!!?? That was the state that decided a while back that eggs could no longer be served in restaurants unless they were cooked hard. NO more over easy, sunny side up, soft boiled.
Ah yes --- Jay Leno had the best criticism of this. He joked that you could buy a shotgun at any K-mart in New Jersey, but needed a seven-day waiting period to order a Caesar salad*.

(*for any non-foodies, a traditional Caesar salad dressing contains raw egg yolks)

HerrProfessorDoktor
2005-Jan-07, 08:04 PM
The article mentioned trying this with bleu (blue?) cheese...hmmm...

:-k That wouldn't be my first choice for a burger, however as I adore bleu cheese, this could be an interesting combination and merits an empirical test at some point.

My contribution would consist of the following:
Toasted, seeded bun (preferably sesame & poppy seed)
Generous 98% lean ground sirloin patty, rather than ordinary ground beef
three strips well-done thickly sliced peppered bacon
2 slices of Boar's Head Muenster cheese
sautéed mushrooms
lightly sautéed Vidalia onion
shredded Romaine lettuce
sliced roma tomato
sliced green or black olives
spicy brown mustard

Mmm. 8)

That's quite a burger. Couldn't do it better myself. :D

On the cheese question, there's a restaurant here called Vortex that serves a "black & bleu" burger which consists of blackened seasoning and bleu cheese. Very tasty!

Any burger fans stopping through Atlanta should visit Vortex. Over a dozen burger variations (including buffalo and ostrich), a good selection of beers on draft and over a hundred kinds available by bottle. A very fun and rock n' roll sort of joint. I sat by the drummer from Skid Row last time I was there. :D

I've recently fallen in love with havarti cheese on a burger or a steak sandwich. Very soft and melty and, though I'm a fan of sharp cheeses, there's a peculiar tang that works quite well with the meat. I think what started me on the kick was a coffee shop in my old hometown that served a flank steak sandwich with havarti and sauteed poblano peppers. I still have dreams about that sandwich. Gouda may also do the trick.

mike alexander
2005-Jan-07, 08:06 PM
All above proving that everyone knows how to make the best CB. It's like religion.

For the record, the best way (sic) is to buy and grind your own beef. Single pass through the grinder. Preferably Grandma's old one you clamp to the side of the table. And (here's the important part) then add bread, dry bread that you break up into smallish chunks, briefly hydrate (not sopping) and mix in, not too thoroughly. The bread will abosrb the fats and oils and hold them inside instead of dripping out and burning up.

Everything else is secondary.

A Thousand Pardons
2005-Jan-07, 08:10 PM
For the ultimate hamburger:
I dunno, with bread crumbs and egg, that sounds more like a meatloaf sandwich. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

HerrProfessorDoktor
2005-Jan-07, 08:22 PM
The bread will abosrb the fats and oils and hold them inside instead of dripping out and burning up.

That does seem especially important if you're grilling. All those glorious juices (read: fat) pour out uselessly upon the coals. I've sometimes found grilled burgers too dry for this reason. In a snap I prefer the frying pan method for burgers and steaks, as it seems easier to get a crispy outside and lock those juices in. However, you miss that nice smoky (read: carcinogenic) taste.

I've noticed all posters to this topic so far have been Americans! What I really want to know is what does the rest of the world think a good burger is? Hmmm? Brits? Aussies? .....

Parrothead
2005-Jan-07, 08:45 PM
Thanks for the serving suggestions everyone. And for the funny song.

Funny song?!??? Much like the cheeseburger, its a classic. :wink: 8)

mike alexander
2005-Jan-07, 09:05 PM
Definitely nothing wrong with a meatloaf sandwich!

But you don't add egg for this. The partially dry bread just soaks up the juice and actually makes the burger get plumper. You can still crisp it on the outside if you want to, and you can cook it to a more well-done state without drying out.

You can also add cured, thick-sliced bacon fried really crisp, or mushrooms sauteed in butter and sherry, preferably with a good aged Swiss underneath.

Or looking down at my waist as I sit here, perhaps a bottle of mineral water.

Bob
2005-Jan-07, 09:39 PM
I always ask for my burgers and steaks to be well-done. I know that the cow is dead, I want to make sure everything else with it is too.

Cooking temperatures don't kill prions (which aren't alive to begin with) so you still assume any risk you might have from Mad Cow disease. Bon appetit!

Doe, John
2005-Jan-08, 01:19 AM
Somebody in the northern hemisphere needs to remember to bump this thread in June or July.

Brady Yoon
2005-Jan-08, 02:05 AM
I think chances of getting Mad Cow Disease is well under 1 in 1 million. A good portion of the world's population eats beef, yet Mad Cow is very rare.

Cancer and AIDS, on the other hand...they are epidemics. :(

Wolverine
2005-Jan-08, 03:17 AM
That's quite a burger. Couldn't do it better myself. :D

As they say, great minds... :cool:


with havarti and sauteed poblano peppers

Now that sounds intriguing! I'd have to try the havarti, but roasted poblano offers one of the most delightful flavors known to my taste buds. Worst case scenario, one could employ some variety of Mexican queso blanco and construct a true Tex-Mex burger, complete with fresh guacamole and the like.

Why do I now see 3 lbs of ground sirlion in my immediate future? Ah well, all in the interest of science... :lol:

Kebsis
2005-Jan-08, 12:10 PM
New Jersey??!!?? That was the state that decided a while back that eggs could no longer be served in restaurants unless they were cooked hard. NO more over easy, sunny side up, soft boiled.
Ah yes --- Jay Leno had the best criticism of this. He joked that you could buy a shotgun at any K-mart in New Jersey, but needed a seven-day waiting period to order a Caesar salad*.

(*for any non-foodies, a traditional Caesar salad dressing contains raw egg yolks)

It isn't very easy to find a gun for sale in these parts. I've been looking around in Newark, Hackensack etc for a gun shop (in case the apocalypse ever comes i wanna know where to go to get the goods to start my post-apocalyptic biker gang with. I already found a pretty hearty looking motorcycle shop that would probably withstand the blast).

Gmann
2005-Jan-08, 01:31 PM
The egg is added to help the patty stay together, it is not manditory, and doesn't affect the flavor. If you are afraid of also catching salmonella with your dose of mad cow, E coli, and hardening of the arteries, then by all means, omit the egg. :D

Bob
2005-Jan-10, 09:42 PM
I think chances of getting Mad Cow Disease is well under 1 in 1 million.:(

Not too bad a guess. About 250 people a year in the US die of CJD (creutzfeld-jakob disease) which is about "one in a million." Mad cow disease manifested in humans is called variant CJD and I believe no one in the US has died of vCJD unless they had spent time in countries where infected meat was in the food chain (e.g. Britain in the 80's and 90's).
It's a risk-benefit consideration, though. The chances of getting it are very low, particularly if the government regulators do their job properly (uh-oh!!). But it's a terrible, lethal disease if you get it and once it gets into the population, it's a difficult problem to deal with.

mike alexander
2005-Jan-10, 09:56 PM
I should've also noted that a variant is to add bread and coarsely chopped onion to the ground beef. which again begins to sound like meatloaf, but the real difference is in the cooking, anyway.

And as Gmann says, egg optional. Works either way. Grandma used egg, Mom didn't, both went down easy.

Swift
2005-Jan-10, 10:00 PM
And as Gmann says, egg optional. Works either way. Grandma used egg, Mom didn't, both went down easy.
Reminds me of a revelation a friend and I made years ago; ultimately, all cooking arguments come down to "Well, that's not how my mom did it!".
:D

Argos
2005-Jan-11, 01:58 PM
Eggs...

In Brazil there´s a very appreciated variety of burger called cheese-everything (x-tudo*, in the native language). It is stuffed with everything in hand, and the egg plays the main role.

(*)In Brazilian menus you will see it written as x-tudo, because, in Brazilian Portuguese, the letter "x" sounds like "cheese" and "tudo" means "everything". But there is a "x-egg", too.