PDA

View Full Version : battlestar galactica



toolazytotypemyname
2005-Jan-09, 03:42 PM
My cable system doesn't get Sci-Fi and so there's probably already a thread on this. The movie was on NBC last night. I missed the beginning and didn't realize what it was a first since most of the costumes looked like regular business suits and such at the part I came in to it.

I had a hard time figuring out what was going on because it is so much different than the original that I barely remember from when I was a little kid. Characters missing, characters totally changing in age, race and gender.

At least the special effects were much better and the spaceflight and weaponery a little more realistic (note I did not say they were realistic, just better then the circa 1978 show)

poorleno
2005-Jan-09, 05:20 PM
I love the camerawork on the new battlestar galactica.

All in all - a good show, if you ask me. The story is pretty solid, and there are elements of devine, that make it truly unique. Only thing i didn't agree on, was that "madam president". Who needs her, when you should clearly have martial law... :S

Maksutov
2005-Jan-10, 10:50 AM
I love the camerawork on the new battlestar galactica.

All in all - a good show, if you ask me. The story is pretty solid, and there are elements of devine, that make it truly unique...
Andy was in there somewhere? (http://www.angelfire.com/ny/nyuk/devine.html)

Guess it's time to rewind the videotape. (http://www.ctaz.com/~mocohist/museum/andy.htm)

"Hey Wild Bill! Wait for me!"

mike alexander
2005-Jan-11, 03:35 AM
With Guy Madison as Wild Bill Hickock

and Andy Devine as his pal, Jingles!

...more brain sludge...

(edit)

"Pluck your magic twanger, Froggie!"

JimTKirk
2005-Jan-11, 01:54 PM
...
"Pluck your magic twanger, Froggie!"

Sounds like "The Ghoul" from Kaiser Broadcasting in the 70s.

Candy
2005-Jan-11, 07:15 PM
Marathon on the SciFi channel for the original Battlestar Galactica. I'm up to the "Living Legend" right now.

Nergal
2005-Jan-11, 07:45 PM
The new Battlestar Galatica has potential...but they made Starbuck a ! #-o

Couldn't they have added a character. Did they have to change the gender of existing characters?

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-11, 07:47 PM
Marathon on the SciFi channel for the original Battlestar Galactica. I'm up to the "Living Legend" right now.
One of the best episodes. Be sure to watch "War of the Gods". :wink:

mike alexander
2005-Jan-11, 09:47 PM
JimTKirk wrote:


Sounds like "The Ghoul" from Kaiser Broadcasting in the 70s.

From "Andy's Show" in the 1950's.

Is The Ghoul the same one I recall, the successor to Ernie Anderson's Ghoulardi?

JimTKirk
2005-Jan-11, 09:59 PM
From "Andy's Show" in the 1950's.

Is The Ghoul the same one I recall, the successor to Ernie Anderson's Ghoulardi?


Not sure... That's the first I remember hearing that quote though. :o

Candy
2005-Jan-11, 11:50 PM
I fell a sleep. I woke up to Stargate SG-1. 8-[

jt-3d
2005-Jan-12, 07:37 AM
The new Battlestar Galatica has potential...but they made Starbuck a ! #-o

Couldn't they have added a character. Did they have to change the gender of existing characters?

...and Boomer. Yeah, that's what I asked. Why change characters instead of making new ones? Goofy, still I try not to let it keep me from enjoying the shows and at least Starbuck still smokes cigars. I don't think the show is too bad.

SeanF
2005-Jan-12, 02:33 PM
From "Andy's Show" in the 1950's.

Is The Ghoul the same one I recall, the successor to Ernie Anderson's Ghoulardi?
Not sure... That's the first I remember hearing that quote though. :o
I'm pretty sure Buckner & Garcia used that in the Frogger song on their novelty Pac-Man Fever album back in the 80s. Was "Andy's Show" a TV or radio show that they could've actually used a sound clip from the original in the song?

tofu
2005-Jan-13, 01:56 PM
I missed the first half of it last night, can anyone fill me in on a couple of things please: why is the hot cylon chick inside that guy's head such that no one else can see her? And if she's a cylon, why is she helping him?

At the very end, the captian gets a note that says, "there are only 12 types of cylons" or something to that effect, telling him how many possible disguises they have. Who gives him this note?

thanks

Candy
2005-Jan-13, 02:06 PM
I missed the first half of it last night, can anyone fill me in on a couple of things please: why is the hot cylon chick inside that guy's head such that no one else can see her? And if she's a cylon, why is she helping him?

At the very end, the captian gets a note that says, "there are only 12 types of cylons" or something to that effect, telling him how many possible disguises they have. Who gives him this note?

thanks

Stupid question: Is the cylon chick the gal that seems to have as much fun as I wish I could in real life? 8-[

tofu
2005-Jan-13, 02:56 PM
yes candy, the blonde chick is a cylon I think.

Would anyone with a lot of time on their hands care to head over to the scifi forum and handle this:
http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Number=465334

I'm too tired

gethen
2005-Jan-13, 03:03 PM
Isn't the Cylon woman the one that the scientist was having an affair with on the home planet? I understood that she was a Cylon spy who was responsible for screwing up the fighters' computer systems so they broke down during the Cylon attack. She suggested that she might have "implanted" herself in his brain, but it wasn't very clear. She also said there might be Cylon spies on board who were "sleepers" and didn't know they were Cylon yet. Maybe one of those left Adama the note?
In general, I thought the program was pretty good. Much darker than the original. I like dark.

Gregor
2005-Jan-13, 04:57 PM
I was guessing that it was the scientist guy that left Adama the note. He wants to help but not expose his involvement in the descruction.
Also, I didn't get a good look at her because my TV is way across the bedroom, but who did that Asian-looking Cylon at the end resemble? Was it Boomer?

Rich
2005-Jan-13, 05:03 PM
Isn't the Cylon woman the one that the scientist was having an affair with on the home planet? I understood that she was a Cylon spy who was responsible for screwing up the fighters' computer systems so they broke down during the Cylon attack. She suggested that she might have "implanted" herself in his brain, but it wasn't very clear. She also said there might be Cylon spies on board who were "sleepers" and didn't know they were Cylon yet. Maybe one of those left Adama the note?
In general, I thought the program was pretty good. Much darker than the original. I like dark.

"She" suggests to Baltar that she may have implanted something in him during their extensive relationship. Something that allows her to communicate with him. She also suggests that alternatively he may simply be going mad from the immense guilt of having a hand in the death of billions and the destruction of an entire civilization.

I kind of like that ambiguity. Is she able to talk to him? If so, is she really sympathetic to him now, or is she merely using him to help track the efforts of these final humans? Or is he just going slowly insane, wracked by the enormity of what he unwittingly abetted? Ooooooo! It's cool because it leaves a lot of plot devices open for future exploitation... and keeps us wondering what's really going on.

jt-3d
2005-Jan-13, 05:56 PM
I've seen up to ep 11 and I still haven't figured out the hot blonde's method. I'm guessing she's just using Baltar somehow and it'll come out somewhere down the road. Right now there are a lot of irons in the fire. I'm digging it though, despite the casting changes.

Parrothead
2005-Jan-13, 06:25 PM
Is this in reference to Number Six (http://www.spacecast.com/bsg/bios_nosix.asp)?

jt-3d
2005-Jan-13, 06:28 PM
Indeed, and that page also confirmed that Richard Hatch is Tom Zarek. I thought so but wasn't sure.

Oh and I guess this would be a SPOILER if you're just getting to watch the series.

TimH
2005-Jan-13, 06:30 PM
I too, was a little bummed about changing Starbuck and Boomer 'til I saw the show. Both Starbucks are pretty much the same character and this Boomer is much cuter than the original ;).

As for the blonde hottie, yep, she is indeed a cylon. She confesses her not-quite-human status to Baltar when the attacks on the Colonies begin.

I have my own theory on Beltar and the Hottie highlight to read:

I think he is a sleeper too. The 1st episode shows the cylon attack already in full swing when the Hottie explains things to Beltar. I seem to remember mushroom clouds not too far from Beltar's home. Perhaps the Beltar that is now on the BSG is one of the sleepers the Hottie mentions.

Anyway I am looking forward to the series. I hope it is as good as the miniseries.

<edit> Well, after reading the profile for Number 6 (thanks for the links ParrotHead), my theory might not be right.

Swift
2005-Jan-13, 06:47 PM
I was guessing that it was the scientist guy that left Adama the note. He wants to help but not expose his involvement in the descruction.
Also, I didn't get a good look at her because my TV is way across the bedroom, but who did that Asian-looking Cylon at the end resemble? Was it Boomer?
yes

archman
2005-Jan-14, 04:04 PM
SciFi's running a marathon of "Galactica 1980" all day. This is one of the most painful things I've ever seen on television.

Candy
2005-Jan-14, 04:07 PM
SciFi's running a marathon of "Galactica 1980" all day. This is one of the most painful things I've ever seen on television.
I don't know, I kind of like the older better than the newer. It was funnier. 8-[

SeanF
2005-Jan-14, 05:12 PM
SciFi's running a marathon of "Galactica 1980" all day. This is one of the most painful things I've ever seen on television.
I don't know, I kind of like the older better than the newer. It was funnier. 8-[
Galactica 1980 is a whole 'nother animal than the original Battlestar Galactica, Candy.

No Starbuck or Apollo, and the Galactica actually arrives on Earth in the year 1980!

Hokie
2005-Jan-14, 05:14 PM
SciFi's running a marathon of "Galactica 1980" all day. This is one of the most painful things I've ever seen on television.

Except for THE RETURN OF STARBUCK (the last episode of Galactica 1980. That one was actually good.

Candy
2005-Jan-14, 05:19 PM
Galactica 1980 is a whole 'nother animal than the original Battlestar Galactica, Candy.

No Starbuck or Apollo, and the Galactica actually arrives on Earth in the year 1980!

You're silly. I know. I like shows with some fun in them. BG, an original SciFi original, has no fun to it. Love the sex scenes, but that's just about it. :wink:

dgruss23
2005-Jan-16, 10:21 PM
This new Battlestar Galactica is missing something. I can't put my finger on it except to say that the episodes are not inspiring me to want to see it again next week.

archman
2005-Jan-16, 11:06 PM
This new Battlestar Galactica is missing something. I can't put my finger on it except to say that the episodes are not inspiring me to want to see it again next week.

It's the cheese that's missing.

Candy
2005-Jan-16, 11:18 PM
This new Battlestar Galactica is missing something. I can't put my finger on it except to say that the episodes are not inspiring me to want to see it again next week.

It's the cheese that's missing.

I can't help but say, "So who cut the cheese?" :lol:

3d-vd
2005-Jan-17, 03:22 AM
I have a question.

What happened to the water ejected?

Wouldn't most have it just froze immediately therby making retrieving it a simple matter?

Matthew
2005-Jan-17, 03:52 AM
What happened to the water ejected?

Wouldn't most have it just froze immediately therby making retrieving it a simple matter?

No, it would have boiled immediately, which would have made retrieval a bit harder.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Jan-17, 04:31 AM
As the BA says, there is a website attached to this board. (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/m2mreview.html)

3d-vd
2005-Jan-17, 01:12 PM
I just wasn't sure about the volume of water released, and how fast it would freeze or not. Thanks!

On a side note, why would a space vessel keep all their water in a liquid state? I would imagine they could keep it frozen to act as additional shielding. To dispence water to other ships they could have the equivalent of a giant ice crusher (ala household fridges). I know it was just a plot device but if a few ounces of C4 can do that kind of damage, what would a Cylon missile do?

dgruss23
2005-Jan-17, 01:15 PM
This new Battlestar Galactica is missing something. I can't put my finger on it except to say that the episodes are not inspiring me to want to see it again next week.

It's the cheese that's missing.

I can't help but say, "So who cut the cheese?" :lol:

The script writers. :wink:

gethen
2005-Jan-17, 02:56 PM
I don't know, I rather liked those first two episodes. Although I do think they were lacking in humor. I don't mean they need to be hilarious. They were just unrelentingly grim, and you can just take so much of that. A little variation in tone might be a good addition.

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-17, 03:07 PM
One could accuse the original Galactica of many things, but not of lacking humour.

3d-vd
2005-Jan-17, 03:16 PM
At this point in the story they really haven't had much time to deal with the destruction of their civilization. I would assume humor will emerge as soon as everybody gets to know each other. They have been rather busy. :)

Swift
2005-Jan-17, 03:35 PM
I don't know, I rather liked those first two episodes. Although I do think they were lacking in humor. I don't mean they need to be hilarious. They were just unrelentingly grim, and you can just take so much of that. A little variation in tone might be a good addition.
I agree, I rather liked them too. They are not funny (though they have some funny moments - like Starbuck telling Apollo how to be boss), but I thought they were rather good drama. I like, for example, the photos and momentos in the hall, like a 9-11 memorial. I thought '33' was particularly good, a rather unique idea, well written and directed. Tight and tense.

dgruss23
2005-Jan-17, 04:25 PM
I don't know, I rather liked those first two episodes. Although I do think they were lacking in humor. I don't mean they need to be hilarious. They were just unrelentingly grim, and you can just take so much of that. A little variation in tone might be a good addition.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think its bad. I'm going to watch a few more episodes to see if they capture that intangible that takes a series from good to "must see".

Hopefully, humor will evolve as the characters are developed.

Let me give you an example of several things that bothered me in the first 2 episodes:

1. In the first episode, "33", the rogue passenger liner returns, refused to stand down its approach to the fleet, and the pilots agonize over whether or not to shoot it down.

I have two issues with that. First, its a direct order from your military commander. You don't hesitate, you shoot it down. Second, you're fighting for your life - being attacked every 33 minutes, no home world to return to. In those, circumstances you do what you must to stay alive and worry about the consequences later. The fact that the liner refuses to follow a direct order is enough reason to blast it. So that sequence just wasn't believable.

2. In the second episode "water", what's with this guy dating the cylon chick? Gee, she had blast caps in her bag. Gee, she was soaking wet and didn't know how she got there. Gee, water tanks are blown up with those blast caps. Gee, everybody knows the cylons have taken human form. Hmmm... might it not be a good idea to report all this to the captain? Wouldn't a trip to sick bay and a close inspection of her body chemistry be able to establish her innocence?

As I said, I don't think the show is bad, but in my opinion these are the sort or writing errors that will keep the series from being in the "excellent" category. They're going to have to do a better job of making these sorts of decisions the characters must make believable.

dgruss23
2005-Jan-17, 04:27 PM
Ok, wait - maybe not everybody knows the cyclons have taken human form, but in either case, the guy isn't thinking clearly.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-17, 04:44 PM
Ok, wait - maybe not everybody knows the cyclons have taken human form, but in either case, the guy isn't thinking clearly.

It's clear from a statement at some point that only a handful of people know Cylons can take human form. Still, the boyfriend seems to me to be well on his way to being executed for dereliction of duty and who knows what else. The situation really bothered me, too.

dgruss23
2005-Jan-17, 05:08 PM
Ok, wait - maybe not everybody knows the cyclons have taken human form, but in either case, the guy isn't thinking clearly.

It's clear from a statement at some point that only a handful of people know Cylons can take human form. Still, the boyfriend seems to me to be well on his way to being executed for dereliction of duty and who knows what else. The situation really bothered me, too.

Well, it looks like the Cylons have figured out the greatest weakness of humans and exploited it to its full potential. I wonder how that strategy meeting went:

Cylon 1: "Ok, what's the easiest way to wipe these humans out?"

Cylon 2: "Well, we need to blow up all their ships so they can't blow up all our ships. Then we'll nuke the heck out of their planets."

Cylon 1: "Sounds great, but you got any brilliant ideas on how we destroy several hundred Battlestars without getting destroyed."

Cylon2: "No clue. That's why we've been hiding out here in seclusion in the first place."

Cylon 3: "We'll help them procreate."

(Cylon's 1 and 2 look at each other in disbelief)

Cylon 2: "Uh ... I think you're missing the point here 3."

Cylon 3: "Look, all you've got to do is decorate a few of us up to look like their women. Somebody can work up the spec's on what they like the best. I think a handful of models ought to be enough. We'll infiltrate their military and intelligence ranks and find out all the information we need to destroy them. Believe me it will work, you get them thinking about procreation and they lose all intelligence, caution, and common sense."

ChesleyFan
2005-Jan-17, 05:52 PM
I finally caught the miniseries and first two episodes on Sci-Fi last night. I actually like it.

But why do they make the two hot chicks (sorry, Starbuck) Cylons?

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-17, 05:56 PM
But why do they make the two hot chicks (sorry, Starbuck) Cylons?
Lust -> Doom

Swift
2005-Jan-17, 06:20 PM
Ok, wait - maybe not everybody knows the cyclons have taken human form, but in either case, the guy isn't thinking clearly.

It's clear from a statement at some point that only a handful of people know Cylons can take human form. Still, the boyfriend seems to me to be well on his way to being executed for dereliction of duty and who knows what else. The situation really bothered me, too.
That was kind of my feeling. The FACT that cyclons can look human seems to be only known by a few, though they make it apparent that the rumor is widely spread. I got the feeling that Boomer and the chief have had a relationship for a significant period of time; I guess he's blinded by love. Remember, denial is not just a river in Egypt.

nebularain
2005-Jan-17, 07:30 PM
[quote=gethen] 1. In the first episode, "33", the rogue passenger liner returns, refused to stand down its approach to the fleet, and the pilots agonize over whether or not to shoot it down.

I have two issues with that. First, its a direct order from your military commander. You don't hesitate, you shoot it down. Second, you're fighting for your life - being attacked every 33 minutes, no home world to return to. In those, circumstances you do what you must to stay alive and worry about the consequences later. The fact that the liner refuses to follow a direct order is enough reason to blast it. So that sequence just wasn't believable.
Total agreement here!
Apollo even noticed he couldn't see anyone aboard the ship.
Hello!

Swift
2005-Jan-17, 07:44 PM
1. In the first episode, "33", the rogue passenger liner returns, refused to stand down its approach to the fleet, and the pilots agonize over whether or not to shoot it down.

I have two issues with that. First, its a direct order from your military commander. You don't hesitate, you shoot it down. Second, you're fighting for your life - being attacked every 33 minutes, no home world to return to. In those, circumstances you do what you must to stay alive and worry about the consequences later. The fact that the liner refuses to follow a direct order is enough reason to blast it. So that sequence just wasn't believable.
Total agreement here!
Apollo even noticed he couldn't see anyone aboard the ship.
Hello!
The only thing I'll say in the writers' defense is that all of these events were after 5 days straight of fighting attachs and no sleep and after a one-day war that left 99+% of your entire race dead. I've never been in the military, but I have to think that even pilots would be a little non-logical (more like shell-shocked) by that point. 2.6% of the remaining human race just died (either when the Cylons captured the ship or the humans blew it up), I probably would hesitate too.

edited to fix some quotes

SkepticJ
2005-Jan-18, 12:38 AM
I'm a little confused about the rational guy in '33'. I'm new to this show so I don't know anything about it. He just seemed like not a positive portrayal of an rational/skeptic/atheist. Maybe it was just him tripping from the lack of sleep though. What do you think? Fill me in. Another thing, the uber hot Asian woman being a Cylon just isn't right.
It does look leaps and bounds better than the 70s version. I'm going to get my head chopped off for that aren't I?

ToSeek
2005-Jan-18, 12:52 AM
I'm a little confused about the rational guy in '33'. I'm new to this show so I don't know anything about it. He just seemed like not a positive portrayal of an rational/skeptic/atheist. Maybe it was just him tripping from the lack of sleep though. What do you think? Fill me in.

If you're talking about the genius scientist guy, he's half nuts already because he's responsible for the Cylons being able to break through the human's defenses and kill just about everybody. Certainly not a positive portrayal, but not a stereotypical "mad scientist," either.

beck0311
2005-Jan-18, 01:11 AM
1. In the first episode, "33", the rogue passenger liner returns, refused to stand down its approach to the fleet, and the pilots agonize over whether or not to shoot it down.

I have two issues with that. First, its a direct order from your military commander. You don't hesitate, you shoot it down. Second, you're fighting for your life - being attacked every 33 minutes, no home world to return to. In those, circumstances you do what you must to stay alive and worry about the consequences later. The fact that the liner refuses to follow a direct order is enough reason to blast it. So that sequence just wasn't believable.

Wow. That's a little disturbing. Do you honestly think that just because someone is in the military they can just snuff out what may be 1,300 innocent lives with little or no thought about it? I just finished watching the two episodes (I Tivoed them I was gone an Friday) and I felt that the portrayal of the pilots having to destroy the ship quite well done. I was in the military for a while and I can assure you that I was no robot, it bothers me that people think we are capable of killing without the slightest hesitation and remorse, that is in no way the case.

SkepticJ
2005-Jan-18, 01:50 AM
Wow. That's a little disturbing. Do you honestly think that just because someone is in the military they can just snuff out what may be 1,300 innocent lives with little or no thought about it? I just finished watching the two episodes (I Tivoed them I was gone an Friday) and I felt that the portrayal of the pilots having to destroy the ship quite well done. I was in the military for a while and I can assure you that I was no robot, it bothers me that people think we are capable of killing without the slightest hesitation and remorse, that is in no way the case.

The difference is that in your case 6,000,000,000 people exist and humanity's survival isn't hanging on by a thread. How would you act if only 47,000 people still existed and if you don't blow up the possible 1,300 then your species will no longer exist?

beck0311
2005-Jan-18, 01:57 AM
Wow. That's a little disturbing. Do you honestly think that just because someone is in the military they can just snuff out what may be 1,300 innocent lives with little or no thought about it? I just finished watching the two episodes (I Tivoed them I was gone an Friday) and I felt that the portrayal of the pilots having to destroy the ship quite well done. I was in the military for a while and I can assure you that I was no robot, it bothers me that people think we are capable of killing without the slightest hesitation and remorse, that is in no way the case.

The difference is that in your case 6,000,000,000 people exist and humanity's survival isn't hanging on by a thread. How would you act if only 47,000 people still existed and if you don't blow up the possible 1,300 then your species will no longer exist?

I don't see this as a difference. I would still be hesitant to kill 1,300 people, and I would still probably be bothered by the lingering sense of fear that it was not necessary. Actually, if you look at it another way, since so few people exist unnecessarily killing 1,300 people is that much worse.

dgruss23
2005-Jan-18, 01:59 AM
1. In the first episode, "33", the rogue passenger liner returns, refused to stand down its approach to the fleet, and the pilots agonize over whether or not to shoot it down.

I have two issues with that. First, its a direct order from your military commander. You don't hesitate, you shoot it down. Second, you're fighting for your life - being attacked every 33 minutes, no home world to return to. In those, circumstances you do what you must to stay alive and worry about the consequences later. The fact that the liner refuses to follow a direct order is enough reason to blast it. So that sequence just wasn't believable.

Wow. That's a little disturbing. Do you honestly think that just because someone is in the military they can just snuff out what may be 1,300 innocent lives with little or no thought about it? I just finished watching the two episodes (I Tivoed them I was gone an Friday) and I felt that the portrayal of the pilots having to destroy the ship quite well done. I was in the military for a while and I can assure you that I was no robot, it bothers me that people think we are capable of killing without the slightest hesitation and remorse, that is in no way the case.

No, that is not what I think. My comments have nothing to do with the United States Military or the people in its service. For perspective I think about that soldier that was lambasted in the media for killing a guy that was pretending to be dead. Sitting on the sidelines its easy to say this or that about it, but we weren't there. My take on it: in war horrible things must be done - its about survival... right? In the heat of conflict I would think stopping to mull over more than a few seconds whether or not an order is just is about the time needed to end up dead from enemy fire.

But I cannot imagine the internal conflicts soldiers must go through when the battle is done ... when they take time to think about what they had to do to survive and accomplish the mission.

I wasn't implying that soldiers should be robots or have no feelings about it, but as a soldier when you're given in order, your choices are to (1) carry it out, (2) check to verify the order if you have concerns about it (assuming that's possible), or (3) refuse to carry out the order.

Now my memory of the details is fading, but Apollo took the time to see that the seats were empty - and still hesitated to carry out the order. Wasn't there also something about high radiation readings - suggesting nukes? Meanwhile the ship is still plowing on toward all that is left of the human population. IMO the writers made the pilots think too much about it beforehand given the circumstances of the story. I'd have preferred if they'd have had Apollo contact the Galactica with a "You sure about this?" query. Then proceeded with the action after being told ... "Yes - there's nukes on that ship. Blow it up."

What bothered me about the portrayal was that their hesitation was carried out after receiving the order as if they had no accountability to the orders they'd received. It was portrayed as if they had a final say in the matter and the orders from the Galactica were just a "suggestion" they could mull over and think about for a while. Reflection and regret could've been put into the story after the necessary deed was done.

SkepticJ
2005-Jan-18, 02:08 AM
I don't see this as a difference. I would still be hesitant to kill 1,300 people, and I would still probably be bothered by the lingering sense of fear that it was not necessary. Actually, if you look at it another way, since so few people exist unnecessarily killing 1,300 people is that much worse.

But they knew nuclear weapons were onboard and even if they weren't human looking Cylons could be. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

beck0311
2005-Jan-18, 02:11 AM
dgruss23, thanks for the clarification. I apologize if I came across overly sensitive. Your explanation seems to make more sense to me now. I guess I still like the way it was portrayed, but I can see your complaint a little better now. I guess to me it seemed like the pilots themselves were not in danger themselves at the time and that it seemed like there was a little time to contemplate the situation. I was thinking about the tape that was releases of the Apache pilot in the first Gulf War who destroyed an American M113. In the tape that was released afterwards it was clear that even though the pilot was being told to fire that he had his doubts (it turned out later that he had made a navigational mistake that led to the incident) and that he was torn. In that case he was not in immanent danger but some on the ground felt that they were.

Overall, though I kind of liked the new BGG and am looking forward to having a new SciFi show to watch.

gethen
2005-Jan-18, 02:27 AM
I was also bothered by the hesitation about shooting the ship after the pilots saw that no one appeared to be on board, it ignored a direct order to halt, and it was clear it had nukes on board. In fact, there didn't seem to be much reason to believe that it was just an innocent passenger liner. It had responded to earlier contacts from the pilots and then went silent when ordered to halt. I thought it looked like they were just trying to create some suspense in a rather contrived way.
I did like the little side thing about the President keeping track of how many survivors there were on that chalkboard, and reacting to each loss as a dead serious thing. It kept me thinking about how close the species was to extinction.
I like the crazy scientist. A totally selfish, amoral worm on whom the species' survival may very well hang is a pretty interesting concept.

Swift
2005-Jan-18, 02:30 PM
I was thinking a little more about Apollo and Starbuck blowing up the suspicious ship in '33'. The closest analogy I can think of was this... imagine on 9/11 that instead of the fourth plane being forced down by the passengers, that we managed to get some fighters up there. I suspect they would have gone through similar steps: looking over the plane, ordering them to land, maybe even firing across their path. I doubt the terrorists would have complied and the pilots would have been ordered to shoot the plane down (at that point it was known what happened at the WTC and the Pentagon). They would have done this well before it got to DC, to avoid the wreckage hitting the city, so it would not have been a decision that had to happen NOW. I suspect (and hope) the pilots would have paused for 10 or 15 seconds first.

In any case, the producers of the show must be happy, look how wrapped up in this one scene we all got. :wink:

Swift
2005-Jan-18, 02:42 PM
<skip>
I did like the little side thing about the President keeping track of how many survivors there were on that chalkboard, and reacting to each loss as a dead serious thing. It kept me thinking about how close the species was to extinction.
I like the crazy scientist. A totally selfish, amoral worm on whom the species' survival may very well hang is a pretty interesting concept.
Yes, I liked the bit with the white board too, and the scientist is a great character. Actually, most of the characters are pretty interesting. The interactions between Adama and the President are complex, I like how they are slowly feeling each other out; the President knows that Adama has the power to just go to a military government, but is counting on his morals. Adama's little speech about the role of the police versus the military was good.

One very little nitpick that is bothering me (I only picked it up when watching the re-runs). When they are counting down to an FTL jump, they are counting too slow. The count from 10 on down, takes much longer than 10 seconds (ten............nine...............eight..... )
I'm sure you are all going :roll:
:D

ToSeek
2005-Jan-18, 03:08 PM
The interactions between Adama and the President are complex, I like how they are slowly feeling each other out; the President knows that Adama has the power to just go to a military government, but is counting on his morals. Adama's little speech about the role of the police versus the military was good.

There was a cute bit in the making-of half hour in which Olmos (Adama) is talking about how serious the relationship is between Adama and the president in one split-screen while in the other split-screen he's standing there while Mary McDonnell is dancing around next to him like an idiot. ;)


One very little nitpick that is bothering me (I only picked it up when watching the re-runs). When they are counting down to an FTL jump, they are counting too slow. The count from 10 on down, takes much longer than 10 seconds (ten............nine...............eight..... )
I'm sure you are all going :roll:
:D

Those are obviously Twelve Colonies seconds, not Earth seconds.

Nergal
2005-Jan-18, 03:14 PM
My own little nitpick from "Water".

They really let their storyline get in the way of their reality. There's a little disconnect between the first installment of the miniseries and "Water".

In the miniseries Gallactica gets nuked on one of the pods and takes relatively light damage. In fact it's pretty obvious that in a universe without "shields" she's built to take those kind of hits and survive.

In "Water" 5 detonators (presumably attached to bricks of C4-like e...but later they make it sound like it was just detonators) blow 5 gaping holes in her forward section.

Now granted, she's build to take damage from the outside, but if 5 small es could cause that kind of damage, what would a nuke hitting the forward section do?

Like I said, it's a small nitpick...but then a lack of internal consistency really bothers me when they ask me to suspend my disbelief [-X

gethen
2005-Jan-18, 04:28 PM
One very little nitpick that is bothering me (I only picked it up when watching the re-runs). When they are counting down to an FTL jump, they are counting too slow. The count from 10 on down, takes much longer than 10 seconds (ten............nine...............eight..... )
I'm sure you are all going :roll:
:D
Not just you. Hubby was watching with me (before he fell asleep) and said the same thing, "If they'd count faster they might make the jump before the Cylons blow them to bits."

Yoshua
2005-Jan-19, 12:16 PM
My own little nitpick from "Water".

They really let their storyline get in the way of their reality. There's a little disconnect between the first installment of the miniseries and "Water".

In the miniseries Gallactica gets nuked on one of the pods and takes relatively light damage. In fact it's pretty obvious that in a universe without "shields" she's built to take those kind of hits and survive.

In "Water" 5 detonators (presumably attached to bricks of C4-like e...but later they make it sound like it was just detonators) blow 5 gaping holes in her forward section.

Now granted, she's build to take damage from the outside, but if 5 small es could cause that kind of damage, what would a nuke hitting the forward section do?

Like I said, it's a small nitpick...but then a lack of internal consistency really bothers me when they ask me to suspend my disbelief [-X

Not knowing how much explosive was used or how powerful it was, it's kinda hard to say anything. I'm just willing to let it go that the saboteur knew the correct weak spots to plant the charges, and the charges were strong enough to blast open the water tanks.

What I took issue with was what happened after. They send out scouts to look for water. Apparently this is some rare substance in the universe. Though I'd been led to believe this just isn't true. For that matter, they could have just scooped up all the water that was expelled into space. Not like it ceases to exist just because it's in a vacuum. Judging by the bragging Adama does about the Galactica's water reclaimation facilities, I don't think contamination would be an issue.

tofu
2005-Jan-19, 02:05 PM
Another thing, the uber hot Asian woman being a Cylon just isn't right.

I guess this is an issue of aesthetics, but I don't think that Grace Park is anything more than slightly above average as far as asian women go. Ever been to San Francisco? She wouldn't even turn heads there. IMHO, a better example of someone easily a full standard deviation above the average is Za Ziyi:

http://images.google.com/images?q=Ziyi

Jason
2005-Jan-19, 05:33 PM
What I took issue with was what happened after. They send out scouts to look for water. Apparently this is some rare substance in the universe. Though I'd been led to believe this just isn't true.
Look at all the recent missions to the moon and Mars looking for water there. It's more rare than you would think, and they apparently had a limited number of planets to look for it in the time available.


For that matter, they could have just scooped up all the water that was expelled into space. Not like it ceases to exist just because it's in a vacuum. Judging by the bragging Adama does about the Galactica's water reclaimation facilities, I don't think contamination would be an issue.
The water would boil into vapor in the vacuum of space a few moments after it was expelled, which would make it very difficult to collect again, if not impossible.

Jason
2005-Jan-19, 05:41 PM
I was also bothered by the hesitation about shooting the ship after the pilots saw that no one appeared to be on board, it ignored a direct order to halt, and it was clear it had nukes on board. In fact, there didn't seem to be much reason to believe that it was just an innocent passenger liner. It had responded to earlier contacts from the pilots and then went silent when ordered to halt. I thought it looked like they were just trying to create some suspense in a rather contrived way.

It seemed pretty obvious that the cylons were in control of the ship, yes, but do we know for sure the civilians weren't still aboard? Sure Apollo had a look through a couple windows and didn't see anyone, but what if they were all locked away somewhere inside? He didn't have time to look through all the windows, and there apparently aren't any "life form" sensors in BSG.
If I were in his spot I would find it very tough to destroy the ship too.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-19, 06:13 PM
What I took issue with was what happened after. They send out scouts to look for water. Apparently this is some rare substance in the universe. Though I'd been led to believe this just isn't true.
Look at all the recent missions to the moon and Mars looking for water there. It's more rare than you would think, and they apparently had a limited number of planets to look for it in the time available.


But they make it sound as if there's no water to be found in entire solar systems, where just in ours you can find it on Earth, Mars (polar caps), the larger moons of Jupiter, or any comet.

Jason
2005-Jan-19, 06:37 PM
But they make it sound as if there's no water to be found in entire solar systems, where just in ours you can find it on Earth, Mars (polar caps), the larger moons of Jupiter, or any comet.

Only one moon of Jupiter positively has water (Europa). The fact that we have at least three potential sources of water in our own system doesn't mean other systems will too. So far we haven't discovered any water-bearing planets outside our own system, so who's to say what is likely or unlikely?

Same story with comets. Who knows how rare they are in other systems?

And it made for an interesting story anyway.
Water was a nice tie-together theme in the episode too - Baltar kept hallucinating (or whatever is happening to him) about an ocean-front home, complete with Number 6 in a hot tub - every scene on Caprica had it raining buckets - etc.

nebularain
2005-Jan-19, 06:56 PM
Blowing up the ship:

What bothered me is that it seemed so disjointed between when Apollo noticed he couldn't see anyone aboard and then still struggled as if he was just as convinced that all those people were still aboard. It just didn't look right.

The second thing that bothered me was in the convos between Apollo and his father and then with the president made it seem as if they believed they made a mistake. It would have been better had their struggle been over whether or not it was a mistake. The issue of the president keeping the name of the ship could have been just as meaningful. Even if they were 100% correct, the fact that the people were lost was just as valid.


Boomer as a Cylon:

I wonder if "Water" would have been a better episode had we not been given the insight that Boomer was a sleeper-Cylon.

But then again, if the writers did that we would not understand how Boomer could be on the planet with Helo.


Helo:

Speaking of . . .

What is the purpose of focusing on him?
And what was the reason for the Cylons setting up Boomer killing a copy of #6?

Jason
2005-Jan-19, 07:32 PM
The second thing that bothered me was in the convos between Apollo and his father and then with the president made it seem as if they believed they made a mistake. It would have been better had their struggle been over whether or not it was a mistake. The issue of the president keeping the name of the ship could have been just as meaningful. Even if they were 100% correct, the fact that the people were lost was just as valid.
When you just lost almost 3% of the remaining human race we should expect those involved to question whether they made the right decision or not, no matter how clear-cut the actual decision was.



I wonder if "Water" would have been a better episode had we not been given the insight that Boomer was a sleeper-Cylon.
Considering what happens in the episode it wouldn't be hard to guess that she is a cylon if we hadn't already known.



And what was the reason for the Cylons setting up Boomer killing a copy of #6?
It seems to me that #6 occasionally works at cross purposes to the rest of the cylons. She revealed the presence of a sleeper on the Galactica during the miniseries, for instance, when she didn't have to. She seems more interested with controlling Baltar than with exterminating humanity (which would presumably include exterminating him).

LawfulGoodThief
2005-Jan-19, 07:39 PM
But they make it sound as if there's no water to be found in entire solar systems, where just in ours you can find it on Earth, Mars (polar caps), the larger moons of Jupiter, or any comet.

Only one moon of Jupiter positively has water (Europa). The fact that we have at least three potential sources of water in our own system doesn't mean other systems will too. So far we haven't discovered any water-bearing planets outside our own system, so who's to say what is likely or unlikely?

Same story with comets. Who knows how rare they are in other systems?

And it made for an interesting story anyway.
Water was a nice tie-together theme in the episode too - Baltar kept hallucinating (or whatever is happening to him) about an ocean-front home, complete with Number 6 in a hot tub - every scene on Caprica had it raining buckets - etc.
Actually Galileo detected water on all three (Europa, Gandymede and Callisto). http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2002eab..conf..565V Water also has been detected on Charon, in Jupiter's atmosphere, molecular clouds, and in possibly in polar craters on Mercury. Considering the abundance of oxygen in the universe, it is likely water exists in some form in most systems.

Jason
2005-Jan-19, 07:50 PM
Actually Galileo detected water on all three (Europa, Gandymede and Callisto). http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2002eab..conf..565V Water also has been detected on Charon, in Jupiter's atmosphere, molecular clouds, and in possibly in polar craters on Mercury. Considering the abundance of oxygen in the universe, it is likely water in some form will be found in some form in most systems.[/url]

Seems I'm not entirely up to date on which moons have water and which don't.

So it may be more likely than not that water will be found in any particular system, but would it be unnusual to find a system with no water in it? Again I don't think we really know one way or the other at the moment.

Also, how easy would it be to remove water from Jupiter's atmosphere? Finding sources they can't harvest would do them no good.

Swift
2005-Jan-19, 08:15 PM
Helo:

Speaking of . . .

What is the purpose of focusing on him?
And what was the reason for the Cylons setting up Boomer killing a copy of #6?
I'm guessing that the writers are also going to follow a story line of what happens on the Colonies after the Cylon occupation. One reason the Cylons might have had that Boomer kill a #6 was to win Helo's trust. Now she can spy on what Helo is doing. If for example a resistance movement starts on Caprica, and Helo is involved, the Cylons will have a spy.

archman
2005-Jan-19, 09:55 PM
And it made for an interesting story anyway.
Water was a nice tie-together theme in the episode too - Baltar kept hallucinating (or whatever is happening to him) about an ocean-front home, complete with Number 6 in a hot tub - every scene on Caprica had it raining buckets - etc.

Hmm... never noticed that. That's quite subtle, if the directors intended it.

gethen
2005-Jan-20, 01:27 AM
It seemed pretty obvious that the cylons were in control of the ship, yes, but do we know for sure the civilians weren't still aboard? Sure Apollo had a look through a couple windows and didn't see anyone, but what if they were all locked away somewhere inside? He didn't have time to look through all the windows, and there apparently aren't any "life form" sensors in BSG.
If I were in his spot I would find it very tough to destroy the ship too.
So would I, but if there were still people aboard that ship, and it was clearly carrying nuclear weapons (which seemed to be the Cylon weapon of choice) and the ship was headed for the fleet and refused to respond to direct orders to stop, how exactly were those pilots going to "rescue" the people that might be on board before the ship blew up the entire fleet and itself? They didn't have transporters. It just seemed that the people who might have been on board were doomed in any case. The question was, how many others would die with them.
Again, I'd have a tough time making the decsion too, but I wouldn't expect trained pilots in wartime conditions to hesitate so long.

HAVOC451
2005-Jan-20, 12:53 PM
I'll have to watch it again but it didn't seem like they spent alot of time thinking about it. Not much longer than it took to manuver into firing position, take one last look, and then shoot.

It should never be easy for a fighter pilot to flame an airliner. I think this was fairly well represented by the writers.

I enjoyed the series opener and look forward to more.
=D> =D>

[/i]

Nergal
2005-Jan-20, 02:48 PM
...and it was clearly carrying nuclear weapons (which seemed to be the Cylon weapon of choice) and the ship was headed for the fleet and refused to respond to direct orders to stop.
Another minor nitpick of mine...this time from the miniseries...re: nukes.

It's clear nukes are the cyclons preferred weapons on engagement. They liberally sprinkled the human planets with nukes to open the assault. Cyclone raiders fired one at the president's ship (which Apollo "defeated" with the pulse generators...another minor nitpick, how did he power those things up in the hold of a civilian transport). They launched a handful at Gallactica (one making "contact"). Later, in the series, it's clear the civilian liner has nukes aboard ("radiological warning").

Yet in the second part of the miniseries, when Gallactica is fending off two Cyclon basestars so the civilian fleet can jump to safety...no nukes. There are hoards of raiders attacking, and the basestars are pumping out missles. Gallactica's barrage barrier takes out a few but the ship still takes multiple hits...all are conventional munitions, no nukes. What, did the Cyclons suddenly run out of nukes?

Of course at the time it was theatrically important for Gallactica to get beat up making the heroic stand and then jump away to safety. Having her nuked into a glowing ball of plasma might have adversely affected the storyline :wink:

Overall, I'm enjoying the series a lot though.

Jason
2005-Jan-20, 04:20 PM
Yet in the second part of the miniseries, when Gallactica is fending off two Cyclon basestars so the civilian fleet can jump to safety...no nukes. There are hoards of raiders attacking, and the basestars are pumping out missles. Gallactica's barrage barrier takes out a few but the ship still takes multiple hits...all are conventional munitions, no nukes. What, did the Cyclons suddenly run out of nukes?

Maybe they did. The Cylons were probably planning the destruction of the colonies for years, and they had plenty of time to stock up on nukes for that phase of their plan. After they spent so many destroying the colonies and in their first few attempts at the Galactica and the fleet maybe they didn't have enough of their invasion stockpile left to put them on every other fighter like they did during the initial assault. They may need more time to replenish their stocks.

Madcat
2005-Jan-20, 06:45 PM
You know, if the water reclamation systems on the Galactica are all that great, why do they care that they lost water? It's not like they're depleting their supplies. If anything, they have less mass, and can now accelerate more.

(Come to think of it, what's a battleship doing lugging all that dead weight around anyway!)

Nergal
2005-Jan-20, 06:52 PM
(Come to think of it, what's a battleship doing lugging all that weight around anyway!)
For the same reason they carry the water in tanks just under the outer hull of the forward/bridge section...in a war all that water is basically extra armor.

Also, I don't recall them ever discussing the power plant in Gallactica, but if it's fusion powered then all that water is basically fuel.

Laurie
2005-Jan-21, 06:12 AM
Let's face it. This is NOT the old "Battlestar Galactica".

Nitpicking aside, this series is turning out to be very intriguing, well written and tense. Alot of stuff they could have done with the old is being addressed with this one. The casting and acting is well done and I know some people balk at the "documentary style" of filming...it works with this show. So far.

The issues and charactors are more complex. Most certainly Baltar is written and acted that way. The relationship between him and "Six" is complex. No traditional "mad scientist" is he nor just a "black and white" villan.

But here is something I noticed and will probably be brought up later. The Human Cylons like "Six" and "Boomer" have shown more than just "Cylon programing" in their actions. Why did Six appear upset with Baltar's indisgression? For that matter, there is that brief "compassion"(?) with the baby and her feeling of "remorse" (perhaps) afterwards?
Although Baltar is crucial to the series....still there is the logic of he could easily have been blown apart if Six had not shielded him. Perhaps she did have feelings of "human love?"

Then there is the Galactica "Boomer". She acted as if she was trying to override some hidden Cylon command not to give a positive answer when seeing the "positive H2O" on that Raptor screen. And not to blow up the Raptor if she found water. In the final scene as she walks away from her passionate meeting with the Crew Chief, the "Cylon" part of her seems to take over. In the trailer at the end of "Water", we see the Crew Chief's reaction to her telling him she is a Cylon. But what next? Since she is now cognate of being Cylon, what part of the Human programming still holds sway? Enough that she decides to break away? To still have feelings for the Chief and her human friends?

My question is...just how "human" some of these Human Cylons may have become if too emotionally involved as "human" to humans? That the Cylons made them too much like their "enemies". Enough to possibly override any previous Cylon commands after they emerge from being hidden "sleeper agents".

My musings on this subject.

jt-3d
2005-Jan-21, 11:52 AM
Let's face it. This is NOT the old "Battlestar Galactica".

Nitpicking aside, this series is turning out to be very intriguing, well written and tense...

I agree, I'm enjoying it. I gave up on it being like the old one once I decided that it didn't suck.


My question is...just how "human" some of these Human Cylons may have become if too emotionally involved as "human" to humans? That the Cylons made them too much like their "enemies". Enough to possibly override any previous Cylon commands after they emerge from being hidden "sleeper agents".


Pretty human if the Caprica Boomer is anything to go by. She still has me confused though. And the Galactica one thinks she's human so she acts human. She too has me confused but if there was one character that I'd want to see two of, she's the one.

Swift
2005-Jan-21, 03:49 PM
Let's face it. This is NOT the old "Battlestar Galactica".

Nitpicking aside, this series is turning out to be very intriguing, well written and tense. Alot of stuff they could have done with the old is being addressed with this one. The casting and acting is well done and I know some people balk at the "documentary style" of filming...it works with this show. So far.

The issues and charactors are more complex. Most certainly Baltar is written and acted that way. The relationship between him and "Six" is complex. No traditional "mad scientist" is he nor just a "black and white" villan.

But here is something I noticed and will probably be brought up later. The Human Cylons like "Six" and "Boomer" have shown more than just "Cylon programing" in their actions. Why did Six appear upset with Baltar's indisgression? For that matter, there is that brief "compassion"(?) with the baby and her feeling of "remorse" (perhaps) afterwards?
Although Baltar is crucial to the series....still there is the logic of he could easily have been blown apart if Six had not shielded him. Perhaps she did have feelings of "human love?"

Then there is the Galactica "Boomer". She acted as if she was trying to override some hidden Cylon command not to give a positive answer when seeing the "positive H2O" on that Raptor screen. And not to blow up the Raptor if she found water. In the final scene as she walks away from her passionate meeting with the Crew Chief, the "Cylon" part of her seems to take over. In the trailer at the end of "Water", we see the Crew Chief's reaction to her telling him she is a Cylon. But what next? Since she is now cognate of being Cylon, what part of the Human programming still holds sway? Enough that she decides to break away? To still have feelings for the Chief and her human friends?

My question is...just how "human" some of these Human Cylons may have become if too emotionally involved as "human" to humans? That the Cylons made them too much like their "enemies". Enough to possibly override any previous Cylon commands after they emerge from being hidden "sleeper agents".

My musings on this subject.
Excellent question; I've been wondering the same. I suspect that the answer may be "very human". When they did the autopsy on the dead Human Cylon from the space depot, they found that it was basically a synthetic, organic human. So they may be basically human beings, with some "internal programming" (though the send-their-consciousness-back-to-a-new-body-when-they-die bit would require some additional hardware). I can think of two possibilities, and they are not mutually exclusive. Things like 6's love of Baltar or her religion might be just a ploy to get information out of Baltar. Or it may be that the Cylons got more than they bargined for. It will be fun to find out.

sts60
2005-Jan-21, 05:31 PM
Yes. Including the Caprica Boomer - for all we know, she might also think she's the real thing. Although, wasn't her ship there as well? That is, where did the extra Raptor come from?

I'm pretty forgiving on the various inaccuracies and inconsistencies. The writing is pretty good, the characters complex, the motivations not all clear, and they use thrusters to turn in space!

archman
2005-Jan-21, 06:22 PM
...and it was clearly carrying nuclear weapons (which seemed to be the Cylon weapon of choice) and the ship was headed for the fleet and refused to respond to direct orders to stop.
Another minor nitpick of mine...this time from the miniseries...re: nukes.

It's clear nukes are the cyclons preferred weapons on engagement. They liberally sprinkled the human planets with nukes to open the assault. Cyclone raiders fired one at the president's ship (which Apollo "defeated" with the pulse generators...another minor nitpick, how did he power those things up in the hold of a civilian transport). They launched a handful at Gallactica (one making "contact"). Later, in the series, it's clear the civilian liner has nukes aboard ("radiological warning").

Yet in the second part of the miniseries, when Gallactica is fending off two Cyclon basestars so the civilian fleet can jump to safety...no nukes. There are hoards of raiders attacking, and the basestars are pumping out missles. Gallactica's barrage barrier takes out a few but the ship still takes multiple hits...all are conventional munitions, no nukes. What, did the Cyclons suddenly run out of nukes?

Maybe nukes are expensive or difficult to resupply, so you don't use 'em unless you're fairly assured they won't be shot down, or the delivery vessel is about to blow up itself. Galactica seems pretty capable of intercepting missiles. And the raider Starbuck shot down "only" carried three nukes, which is a lot less compared to the loadout seen on raiders with conventional missiles.

I wonder if the missile Apollo shot down was a nuke. That would be overkill for a crummy little transport.
Even cylon conventional missiles have a lot of punch, however.

amstrad
2005-Jan-21, 06:29 PM
It always bugs me to see space helmets with light shining directly into the actors faces. I understand that actors want their faces to be seen, but holy cow! the lights inside the pilots' helmets in BG are FRIGGIN BRIGHT. It must be like trying to drive your car with a 1 Million candle power searchlight pointed at your face. Look at the screenshot here: http://movie-gurus.com/content/reviews//944/

Nergal
2005-Jan-21, 06:58 PM
So they may be basically human beings, with some "internal programming" (though the send-their-consciousness-back-to-a-new-body-when-they-die bit would require some additional hardware). I can think of two possibilities, and they are not mutually exclusive. Things like 6's love of Baltar or her religion might be just a ploy to get information out of Baltar. Or it may be that the Cylons got more than they bargined for. It will be fun to find out.

In the "Making of" thingie that SciFi aired before the first series episode they made it pretty clear that the Cylons have some kind of religion. They didn't go into any details though...so their "god" could just as easily be the first enlightened robot who lead them to break away from humanity (and that would actually make for a compelling storyline).


Maybe nukes are expensive or difficult to resupply, so you don't use 'em unless you're fairly assured they won't be shot down, or the delivery vessel is about to blow up itself. Galactica seems pretty capable of intercepting missiles. And the raider Starbuck shot down "only" carried three nukes, which is a lot less compared to the loadout seen on raiders with conventional missiles.

It's also possible that by that point the Cyclons had realised that they couldn't jam Gallactica's systems and therefor any missles fired at her had a good chance of getting shot down.


I wonder if the missile Apollo shot down was a nuke. That would be overkill for a crummy little transport.
Even cylon conventional missiles have a lot of punch, however.

They didn't make that clear, though later they left it rather unclear whether or not the Vipers had radiological detection gear. Gallactica can surely detect them, but they seem to hint that Starbuck could tell the missles were nukes on her own.

The missle Appollo defeated with the pulse generators (I still want to know how he powered those up in the hold of a transport) is unclear to. To Gallactica it looked like a nuke, but that was due to the pulse...and they never tell us what happened to the missile.

I'm enjoying it quite a bit as well, minor nitpicks included. :lol:

Laurie
2005-Jan-21, 08:21 PM
Remember, "Nukes" were also used in Babylon 5.

Swift
2005-Jan-21, 10:59 PM
I'm pretty forgiving on the various inaccuracies and inconsistencies. The writing is pretty good, the characters complex, the motivations not all clear, and they use thrusters to turn in space!
=D>
We have to give them a few points for some good physics.

As others have said, its not the old series. And that's a good thing.

toolazytotypemyname
2005-Jan-22, 03:00 AM
Wel,, I'm still handicapped by not being able to see more of it. But it seems to me that they should have just named it something else, because it really is something different. While it appears better on the surface what with better special effects and much better plot and character development, it just isn't the same. Just a cheap gimmick to capture viewers by appealing to nostalgia.

And why do the Cylons look like us? It must be to save on production costs, the same reason all the Star Trek aliens, well most of them, look like us. I must say I'm disappointed. The best part of the old series was the Cylons. Big, metallic warriors with the little red light on their heads. Granted I was seven years old at the time and watched it on a 12 inch black and white that didn't always get good reception.

And to think there's another thread on here with people all upset about the Star Wars DVDs and remakes of War of the Worlds, etc.

What's next? a remake of the best worst movie of all time, Clash of the Titans? With a CGI Kraken and maybe Brad Pitt or Colin Farrel as Perseus?

Metricyard
2005-Jan-23, 03:56 PM
Remember, "Nukes" were also used in Babylon 5.

Not only nukes, but mass drivers. Now that's a cheap, effective weapon.

Low tech methods of mass destruction can be just as effective as high tech.

Of course, laser cannons look cool, but a small projectile fired at a high rate of speed can be just as deadly.

ToSeek
2005-Jan-23, 04:29 PM
Wel,, I'm still handicapped by not being able to see more of it. But it seems to me that they should have just named it something else, because it really is something different. While it appears better on the surface what with better special effects and much better plot and character development, it just isn't the same. Just a cheap gimmick to capture viewers by appealing to nostalgia.

Well, it's the same basic concept with many of the same characters (which I'm sure they had to pay for the rights to). It might as well have the same name.


And why do the Cylons look like us? It must be to save on production costs, the same reason all the Star Trek aliens, well most of them, look like us. I must say I'm disappointed. The best part of the old series was the Cylons. Big, metallic warriors with the little red light on their heads. Granted I was seven years old at the time and watched it on a 12 inch black and white that didn't always get good reception.

There are big metallic, shiny-red-light Cylons on there as well. And there seems to be ample justification in terms of storyline for having humanlike Cylons.

toolazytotypemyname
2005-Jan-23, 08:21 PM
I guess it's just that I missed the first part of the movie and that's all I saw. From the discussion I touched off, it sounded a lot different.

archman
2005-Jan-23, 08:59 PM
Remember, "Nukes" were also used in Babylon 5.

Not only nukes, but mass drivers. Now that's a cheap, effective weapon.

Low tech methods of mass destruction can be just as effective as high tech.

Of course, laser cannons look cool, but a small projectile fired at a high rate of speed can be just as deadly.

I'm also not sure just how effective a beam-type weapon would be at stopping things like missiles. Assuming you can't outmaneuver it, you'd have to detonate the warhead before it hit you, and still have to deal with the debris flaming towards you at high velocity.

I would think hitting mssiles with metal slugs would be an improvement, unless the beam weapons were powerful enough to vaporize the whole missile.

But I'm no physicist, so someone else chime in.

Kesh
2005-Jan-23, 09:24 PM
It's not the original BSG series, but it has certainly earned the right to the name. I'm extremely impressed at how well they've taken the original concept and modernized it.

The FX are incredible. The characters are both believable and well-acted. And the story is cohesive, interesting and keeps me wondering what's next.

I'm very curious to see what happens on Caprica. It may be as simple as trying to get the human survivor's security codes or other secrets... but I have a feeling there's more to it. It'll be good when we get an episode that focuses on those characters.

And, eventually, I'm sure Baltar will take up his role from the old series. At that point, maybe we'll see what the Cylons' god really is...

Overall, this is the first time I've really been excited by a TV series since Babylon 5.

granolaeater
2006-Feb-23, 08:14 PM
Here in Germany the first season of Galactica just begun, so I apologize for coming to this thread one year late.

Last week I saw the episode "water" and I had nearly the same question as 3d-vd one year ago: Why didn't they tried to recollect the frozen water ejected from the broken tanks?

Sadly the answers 3d-vd got then were quite wrong.




I have a question.

What happened to the water ejected?

Wouldn't most have it just froze immediately therby making retrieving it a simple matter?


No, it would have boiled immediately, which would have made retrieval a bit harder.



Yes, it would have begun to boil immediately, and exactly this would have been the reason for the most of the water to freeze immediately.

The link provided by The Supreme Canuck does not help to answer the question.


As the BA says, there is a website attached to this board. (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/m2mreview.html)

On this site it is described why a human body does not freeze immediately: It is protected from boiling by a natural pressure suit named "skin". So it can only cool down by infrared radiation, wich is a pretty slow process.


But a droplet of water has no such protection. As Matthew states right, it will begin to boil immediately. And exactly this will carry away much more heat then radiation. It is the same process you know on earth as evaporation cooling.

The rest is simple math:
Boiling the water needs an energy amount of 40.7 kJ/mol.

This Energy is aquired by:
1. Cooling down the rest water from 20°C to 0°C, wich gives you 1.5 kJ/mol
2. Freezing the cooled water to ice, wich gives you 6.0 kJ/mol

So together the remaining water looses 7,5 kJ/mol.

This means to get the energy to boil 1kg of water you have to freeze 5.3 kg. So your loss by immediate boiling is only about 16%. The rest freezes immediately and can be recollected as long as it is not too far dispersed into space before you decide to begin.

The main problem would be that this ice will be most likely very fine grained dust and you need to have the equipment to do so.




And by the way other then they stated in the episode the most common macroscopic objects in the universe should be KBO-like- and comet like bodies. So in a realistic setting finding water should be the least of their problems.

The bigger problems should be how they install the organic recycling capacities to gather enough food and how they get the industrial capacities to maintain their ships.

The Incredible Bloke
2006-Feb-24, 01:04 AM
So in real life, the water blown into space would freeze into a fine dust, like snow?

granolaeater
2006-Feb-24, 11:36 AM
So in real life, the water blown into space would freeze into a fine dust, like snow?

Basically yes.

The problem is that I can only guess how fine the dust will be. You have to processes working against each other. One one side the boiling tends to rip the droplets apart, on the other side the surface tension of the droplets tends to prevent this.
It might even depend on how clean the water is. The less seed structures you have, the less gas bubbles will form inside the droplets, te bigger the droplets can remain.



So in the best case you will possibly get something coarse as gravel, in the worst case maybe something fine as sooth. I don't know.


With very fine dust you get another problem: not too cold ice can evaporate in space too. Since it can only evaporate from the surface this process will be much slower then the initial boiling of the liquid. but the finer the dust is, the bigger is its surface and hence faster the evaporation. eventually this evaporation cools down the ice far enough that the evaporation stops, but still over time you will have more loss then the initial 16%.

randycat99
2006-Feb-25, 04:04 AM
The bigger problems should be how they install the organic recycling capacities to gather enough food and how they get the industrial capacities to maintain their ships.

No recycling necessary! The answer is self-regenerative dagget biscuits. :D