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Dana_Mix
2005-Jan-12, 05:53 AM
Regarding, of course, Jean Meeus.

Thanks in advance.

Fram
2005-Jan-12, 10:07 AM
Like you write it! Well, in Dutch it is :D

The 'eeu' is one sound: imagine in 'baywatch', the 'bayw' sound: now remove the 'j'-sound from between the a and the w, and you are almost, approximately, there.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 10:18 AM
Remove the "b" as well perhaps?

Fram
2005-Jan-12, 10:21 AM
Well, yes, obviously, and at a m in fornt and a s at the end. I hope that was clear 8-[ #-o

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 10:34 AM
Very clear. I just had this irresistible urge to save mankind from people saying "Mbeeus" :) Sounds rather African to me :)

SeanF
2005-Jan-12, 02:49 PM
Like you write it! Well, in Dutch it is :D

The 'eeu' is one sound: imagine in 'baywatch', the 'bayw' sound: now remove the 'j'-sound from between the a and the w, and you are almost, approximately, there.
There's a 'j' sound in 'baywatch'?

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 02:59 PM
Well, not a "j" pronounced as "jay" He means the the way the end of the "y" is pronounced in "bay", so the thing coming after the end of the "a", but only the very end of it. if you really exagerate, there is some kind of "i" between the "a" and "y" You should keep the start of that "i" ish thing, but not the y. Pronounce "baywatch" without the "y", keep the "ayw" without the "y" and you are close to the "eeu" sound.

SeanF
2005-Jan-12, 03:16 PM
Okay, I see what you're saying . . . but I don't pronounce 'baywatch' that way. Or 'bay', for that matter. It's just a 'b' sound followed by a long 'a.'

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-12, 03:17 PM
Like you write it! Well, in Dutch it is :D

The 'eeu' is one sound: imagine in 'baywatch', the 'bayw' sound: now remove the 'j'-sound from between the a and the w, and you are almost, approximately, there.
So it's a bit like the ow in 'snow'?


Okay, I see what you're saying . . . but I don't pronounce 'baywatch' that way. Or 'bay', for that matter. It's just a 'b' sound followed by a long 'a.'
That 'long a' being actually a diphtongue... :)

Moose
2005-Jan-12, 03:32 PM
Something like the quality in Mouse but with more "a" than "o"?

Fram
2005-Jan-12, 03:47 PM
Yep, that's about right. Sorry about the confusion with the 'j', that's what happens when you explain something about your mother tongue in another language (Meeus is a Dutch name). So just the 'a' (like in a b c) with a 'w' at the end, and you have the 'eeu' sound (and also the in Dutch more common 'eeuw' sound). Isn't it nice that we all use the same alphabet, and still cannot use it the same way? :D

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 03:48 PM
Soooo difficult to explain :)

If you want to pronounce "Meeus" a bit reasonable,
just say "Maze", but instead of the "z" in the end, say "us" (not US, but like in me & my family)

Fram
2005-Jan-12, 03:50 PM
Soooo difficult to explain :)

If you want to pronounce "Meeus" a bit reasonable,
just say "Maze", but instead of the "z" in the end, say "us" (not US, but like in me & my family)

But be sure to keep it all in one syllable!

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 03:50 PM
Having written that, it sounds a bit like "may us" pronounced rapidly

Eroica
2005-Jan-12, 04:42 PM
... now remove the 'j'-sound from between the a and the w ...
What he's trying to convey is that ee is a pure vowel in Dutch, [e:]; whereas ay in English is a diphthong, [ei:].

eeu is a diphthong.

Bawheid
2005-Jan-12, 04:47 PM
How about "Museeuw", which is always badly mangled by english speaking commentators?

Donnie B.
2005-Jan-12, 07:00 PM
I always heard it as MAY-oos (with the last syllable pronounced like the word 'noose' without the 'n').

Is this close, or an Anglicized mangling? Maybe better if it's scrunched together into something less than two syllables?

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 08:42 PM
The "eeuw" in "museeuw" is pronounced about the same as the "eeu" in "Meeus" Only in Museeuw I would slightly pronounce the "w" where in "Meeus" I would suppress it a bit. The "oose" from "noose" sounds highly incorrect to me.

For the sake of explaining "meeus" to English speaking people, I would stick to "may us" pronounced rapidly. The whole name is pronounced as one part, everything is stretched, with the "peak" at the "ee".

The correct pronounciation of "Museeuw" for those interested:
(this isn't exactly correct, but it will be good enough to understand who you're talking about)

MUS: just drop the t in "must". In reality, the "u" is ponounced sharper.

EEUW: like the eeu in Meeus, so something like the middle part of "may us" with more of a w in the back, like in "we" without the "e"

so you get something like MUS(t) (m)AY U(s) W(e) (drop letters between () ) The "eeuw" is the stretched part of the name.

OK that will sound like crap for anyone who doesn't know the correct pronounciation anyway :)

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-12, 08:52 PM
For the sake of explaining "meeus" to English speaking people, I would stick to "may us" pronounced rapidly. The whole name is pronounced as one part, everything is stretched, with the "peak" at the "ee".
Is that like m-ous in French?

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 09:00 PM
In French, Meeus would probably be pronounced "M-ous" with the "ous" extra stretched. This would be a wrong pronounciation however.

The "mee" is pronounced like the French M.
the "us" is pronounced as the english "us" with a light "w" from "we"-e in between. So the "ous" has too much of a "oo" like in "move" in it (unless you pronounce that as "muve" )

In French, M-us would be better.

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-12, 09:05 PM
In French, M-us would be better.
Or m-oeus, perhaps. Anyway, at least it's clearer to me now how to pronounce the ee.

For English speakers: ay is really a poor approximation. A better one is the sound the letters ee have in the word "beer".

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 09:10 PM
I'm sorry to say so, but "beer" is totally off.

It has an "ee" pronounced somewhat like the E in "equal", which is wrong. that's an English "e", while the "ee" in Meeus isn't.

The problem with explaining is that English has different pronounciations. When I say that "may" fits, it is a pronounciation of "may" that fits. Not that one with the flat "a" but with the "a" like in the end of the letter "j" as pronounced in the English alphabet (unless you pronounce that flat as well of course... oh help)

Better one: like in "Kay" from Candy Kay :). I'm afraid I'm getting stuck into explaining it.

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-12, 09:14 PM
I'm sorry to say so, but "beer" is totally off.

It has an "ee" pronounced somewhat like the E in "equal" [...]
No, it doesn't!

"ee" in "beer" = French

"e" in "equal" = French i

(approximately)

Nicolas
2005-Jan-12, 09:17 PM
I was just going to edit my pst, because I thought of the different ways to pronounce "beer".

You could indeed pronounce it with a sound quite similar to the French . I've heard it that way. But I've heard it with an "equal e" as well. (a bit like some people pronouncing "dear" and "deer" about exactly the same, while others have a very clear difference between those words)

That's my problem with explaining it in English words, there are so many differences in English pronounciation (Britain-US to start with).

I guess taping it as a WAV file would be the best option. I'll see what I can do. Just to warn you, in Dutch one can pronounce these names in some slightly different ways as well, but they are rather close to each other. :roll: :roll: