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sarongsong
2005-Jan-14, 09:05 PM
Is it real or contrived?
After all, he is an 'actor' and has been in the U.S. at least half his life now, but still manages to butcher the name of the state he governs, and 'we' consistently comes out as 'vee', for example. Just wondering...

Doodler
2005-Jan-14, 09:27 PM
Is it real or contrived?
After all, he is an 'actor' and has been in the U.S. at least half his life now, but still manages to butcher the name of the state he governs, and 'we' consistently comes out as 'vee', for example. Just wondering...

Accents are hard to lose, even with voice training. Some people, like Arnold, get a lot of mileage out of it, so have no reason to try.

CTM VT 2K
2005-Jan-14, 09:59 PM
German Phonetics are different than American/English Phonetics.

There are certain sounds that exist in English that simply do not exist in German - the hard C is actually done as a K, with no soft C., "Ch" and "Th" are almost alien, and there is no W.

Similarly, there are certain sounds in German that do not exist in English, the German V is almost an F in English, W fills in the V sound (leaving the void at the W sound), the vowels a/ ie/ei o/ u/ are very different as well.

Phonetics are learned very early on in life, if you've not grown up with it, you'll never hear the difference. It amazes me how badly so many americans here in Mannheim who are otherwise entirely fluent in German - in some cases for 20 or more years - who also have every bit of the pronunciation difficulty going to German that Arnold has going to English. I grew up with both languages in my ears, so I can tell the difference. Most Americans are not fortunate enough to have two native tongues.

Ilya
2005-Jan-14, 10:31 PM
On top of that, Arnold was born almost deaf -- he is one of very few people who learned to speak without hearing their own voice. His hearing has long been surgically restored, but to the best of my knowledge AFTER he learned English. Hence his particularly weird accents in English and German.

And as Doodler pointed out, Arnold's accent is an asset rather than a liability -- in movies and in politics.

mike alexander
2005-Jan-14, 10:57 PM
It is also possible that there is some value in the accent- like a trade mark, or Drew Carey's glasses. I've noticed that to my ear Henry Kissinger's accent has thickened over the years. Sean Connery comes to mind as well; once he spoke with a lilt, now he talks around marbles.

Trebuchet
2005-Jan-15, 12:16 AM
My uncle was a "German from Russia", one of a group whose parents were encouraged to migrate from Germany to Russia by a 19th century czar. Many of them subsequently migrated to the upper midwest, Minnesota and the Dakotas.

Anyhow, my uncle was born in South Dakota around 1900, very much the same place and time as Lawrence Welk, who came from the same background. My uncle remembered attending Grange dances at which the music was provided by Welk playing the accordion. My uncle's parents spoke German at home and he didn't begin speaking English until he was at school.

So anyhow, with the same background and age as Lawrence Welk, my uncle had no discernable accent. Lawrence Welk had a pronounced one. My uncle was a businessman, Welk was in show biz. I think you are right on target saying its an asset in show biz but not in other fields.

Candy
2005-Jan-15, 12:37 AM
Anyhow, my uncle was born in South Dakota around 1900, very much the same place and time as Lawrence Welk, who came from the same background. Welk was born in North Dakota. My family on my father's side are all from the 'Dakotas'.

My grandparents have a German accent and were born in the States. Oddest thing. My grandmother's previous generation had 8 German siblings that married 8 (of) English decent siblings.

My grandmother calls anyone with an accent - talkers with broken English (even people from Boston), even though she is a culprit, as well. :wink:

I'm from the Midwest, but people never guess. I am accused of having perfect (American) English - no accent. I studied the newscasters growing up. My brothers and sisters talk slow and with a twang (I blame it on the earlier slow talking French settlers). It's so irritating. :-?

sarongsong
2005-Jan-15, 12:42 AM
Thanks, everyone, for putting it into perspective, especially CTM VT 2K's pointing out, "...there is no W...".
As Arnold gets a lot of TV coverage here in California, it's a subject that comes up often. Interestingly, Lawrence Welk Resort (http://www.welkresort.com/) is nearby, too. Also interesting, Henry Kissinger's "...wheeler-dealer businessman brother Walter speaks English with perfect diction (http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/homeland/kissinger/)...".
What a world! :lol:

Candy
2005-Jan-15, 12:49 AM
Lawrence Welk Resort (http://www.welkresort.com/)
To funny. I have dial-up, and it makes a pop when it finishes loading.

At first, I thought Microsoft was telling me I needed to download new updates.

01101001
2005-Jan-15, 01:00 AM
His accent is a trademark, like Donald Trump's hair.

Candy
2005-Jan-15, 01:05 AM
His accent is a trademark, like Donald Trump's hair.
I'm more concerned at why Arnold looks like he wears make-up and dye's his hair. Doesn't he realize the media's lighting is not the same as a movie studio's lighting? :o

sarongsong
2005-Jan-15, 01:20 AM
Au contraire---he is probably the most carefully packaged political figure since Reagan; camera angles, backgrounds, speeches, etc. are all masterfully presented. You will be hard-pressed to find him in any 'hair-out-of-place' situations, at least so far. Keep an eye on this guy.

tmosher
2005-Jan-15, 02:11 AM
Lawrence Welk Resort (http://www.welkresort.com/)
To funny. I have dial-up, and it makes a pop when it finishes loading.

At first, I thought Microsoft was telling me I needed to download new updates.

It's supposed to "pop" - that's a champagne bubble "popping". Didn't you ever watch the show?

Tom

Candy
2005-Jan-15, 02:27 AM
Lawrence Welk Resort (http://www.welkresort.com/)
To funny. I have dial-up, and it makes a pop when it finishes loading.

At first, I thought Microsoft was telling me I needed to download new updates.

It's supposed to "pop" - that's a champagne bubble "popping". Didn't you ever watch the show?

Tom
I grew up watching Lawrence Welk reruns. My grandparents raised me. I was not expecting a sound effect from the website, silly. :o

sarongsong
2005-Jan-15, 03:23 AM
Larry's latest (tribute) CD:
Lawrence Welk Uncorked (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002J4YLK/102-0309560-5118529?v=glance) =D>

NASA Fan
2005-Jan-15, 04:05 AM
I am Danish, and we tend to pronounce "V" and "W" the same way, sometimes when I pronounce a word that begins with a "w" I tend to pronounce it as a "v." I have to sometimes slow down when I am speaking (another bad habit of mine) and remember to pronounce the "W" correctly.

Sammy
2005-Jan-15, 04:43 AM
My Hungarian mother-in-law has been in the U.S. since 1939, and she still has a ripe Hungarian accent!

Krevel
2005-Jan-15, 02:43 PM
I can't help but wonder what effect Ahnold's accent will have on his efforts to have the Constitution ammended so that he might become President. I suspect that he would be more successful without the accent.

Disinfo Agent
2005-Jan-15, 04:49 PM
Here's an excerpt from the ammended Constitution:

Ve, ze People of ze United Schtates, in Ohrder to fohrm a more perfekt Union, establisch tschustice, insure domestik Tranqvility, profide for ze kommon defense, promote ze gheneral Physikal Fitness, und secure ze Blessings of Liberty to ourselves und our Posterity, do ordain und establisch diese Konstitution for ze United Schtates auf Amerika.

sarongsong
2005-Jan-15, 06:13 PM
I can't help but wonder what effect Ahnold's accent will have on his efforts to have the Constitution ammended so that he might become President. I suspect that he would be more successful without the accent.
Utah Senator Orrin Hatch has been working on that minor detail (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98631,00.html).

Candy
2005-Jan-15, 06:23 PM
Here's an excerpt from the ammended Constitution:

Ve, ze People of ze United Schtates, in Ohrder to fohrm a more perfekt Union, establisch tschustice, insure domestik Tranqvility, profide for ze kommon defense, promote ze gheneral Physikal Fitness, und secure ze Blessings of Liberty to ourselves und our Posterity, do ordain und establisch diese Konstitution for ze United Schtates auf Amerika.

Now, do the southern hill billy draw. 8-[

sarongsong
2005-Jan-15, 10:56 PM
Now, do the southern hill billy draw[l]. 8-[
Hey, where's W's, by the way? His dad had his John Wayne-speak, but junior's is...stilted?

SeanF
2005-Jan-16, 03:46 AM
On top of that, Arnold was born almost deaf -- he is one of very few people who learned to speak without hearing their own voice. His hearing has long been surgically restored, but to the best of my knowledge AFTER he learned English. Hence his particularly weird accents in English and German.
I think you're thinking of Lou "The Incredible Hulk" Ferrigno (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002073/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9RmVycmlnbm98aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u;fc=1;ft=18;fm=1 ).

dakini
2005-Jan-16, 04:36 AM
Is it real or contrived?
After all, he is an 'actor' and has been in the U.S. at least half his life now, but still manages to butcher the name of the state he governs, and 'we' consistently comes out as 'vee', for example. Just wondering...
considering that you learn language best when under 5 years of age, i somehow doubt that he's faking the accent simply because he's spent more of his life in an english speaking country. he spent his formative years speaking another language exclusively...

Stregone
2005-Jan-16, 07:53 AM
My best friend's mother is french. I remember as a kid I could barely understand her because of her very thick accent. Its still very thick 20 years later. I think its not quite so bad these days, but maybe i've just gotten used to it :p