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selvaarchi
2015-Mar-24, 12:34 PM
What are the plans after 2024 when the ISS might be abandon? As of this moment none according to this report other then it might be run by commercial companies.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-urged-to-develop-post-international-space-station-strategy/


Even if the other partners agree to continue ISS operations to 2024 or later, some say now is the time to develop a strategy for transitioning from the ISS to another facility to avoid any gaps in low Earth orbit operations.

“In aerospace terms, [2024] is right around the corner,” Scott Pace, director of George Washington University’s Space Policy Institute here, said at a Senate hearing on human spaceflight Feb. 24. “We need to have very thoughtful discussions and decisions very soon about not just ISS extension but, post-ISS, what that looks like.”

NASA officials acknowledge that now is the time to think about its post-ISS strategy, but say a successor to the ISS is unlikely to be a station built and operated by the space agency.

“At some point this space station will wear out and there needs to be a follow-on space station,” said William Gerstenmaier, NASA associate administrator for human exploration and operations, in a speech at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Commercial Space Transportation Conference Feb. 4. “What we’re hoping for is that the private sector picks that up.”

“We, the government, want another viable space station before this one ends,” Sam Scimemi, ISS director at NASA Headquarters, said during a Feb. 17 workshop on ISS utilization here. That would prevent a gap in low Earth orbit activities that could be detrimental to current ISS suppliers and users. “If the space station ends in the 2020s and there’s nothing to follow it, we will have lost all of this effort in research and benefits to humanity,” he said.

selvaarchi
2015-Mar-29, 04:55 AM
Now this is a surprising turn of events. The new space station to replace the ISS might be jointly built by the US and Russia. Other countries are welcome to join in.

http://sputniknews.com/science/20150328/1020127456.html


BAIKONUR (Sputnik) — Russia and the United States plan to jointly establish a new space station after 2024 with participation of partner countries, Russian space agency Roscosmos head Igor Komarov said Saturday.

"Roscosmos and NASA will fulfil the program of building a future orbital station. We will elaborate the details. It is going to be an open project, not restricted only to current participants, but open for other countries willing to join it," Komarov said.

NEOWatcher
2015-Mar-29, 02:34 PM
Now this is a surprising turn of events. The new space station to replace the ISS might be jointly built by the US and Russia. Other countries are welcome to join in.
That's the Russian side of the story.
The US side isn't as optimistic (http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/28/nasa-is-working-with-russia-on-a-new-space-station/). They are only "expressing interest", and Bolden is saying that a Mars mission cooperation is more likely.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-06, 12:27 AM
“We, the government, want another viable space station before this one ends,” Sam Scimemi, ISS director at NASA Headquarters, said during a Feb. 17 workshop on ISS utilization here."
I think the key word here is “viable”. I believe a space station in Earth orbit should provide several things minimum. There should be sections with 1G gravity, .38G gravity, .16G gravity, micro gravity, and zero gravity. It should include areas and facilities for being at least partially self sustaining. It should provide internal dry docks for maintaining and repairing spacecraft. That is what I would call viable.

Grashtel
2015-Apr-06, 01:03 AM
“We, the government, want another viable space station before this one ends,” Sam Scimemi, ISS director at NASA Headquarters, said during a Feb. 17 workshop on ISS utilization here."
I think the key word here is “viable”. I believe a space station in Earth orbit should provide several things minimum. There should be sections with 1G gravity, .38G gravity, .16G gravity, micro gravity, and zero gravity. It should include areas and facilities for being at least partially self sustaining. It should provide internal dry docks for maintaining and repairing spacecraft. That is what I would call viable.
And it would only be a couple of orders of magnitude the size and cost of the ISS to be able to do all that, real easy to get.

What we are likely to actually get is something that is more like the ISS 2.0, larger and better but not to the sort of extent that you are proposing.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-06, 02:12 AM
As long as we continue to make baby steps, we will remain babies.

NEOWatcher
2015-Apr-06, 03:45 PM
“We, the government, want another viable space station before this one ends,” Sam Scimemi, ISS director at NASA Headquarters, said during a Feb. 17 workshop on ISS utilization here."
I think the key word here is “viable”. I believe a space station in Earth orbit should provide several things minimum. There should be sections with 1G gravity, .38G gravity, .16G gravity, micro gravity, and zero gravity. It should include areas and facilities for being at least partially self sustaining. It should provide internal dry docks for maintaining and repairing spacecraft. That is what I would call viable.
Viable also considers economics. What is important to NASA is microgravity experiments and Earth observation. The rest is just commercial and dreams.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-06, 04:46 PM
A .38G gravity level would allow testing for long term effects of Mars gravity on humans, plants, and devices. A .16G gravity level would allow the same for the Moon. Zero G chamber in the center would allow for onboard easier assembly of large and massive components and structures without space suits. All these would be valuable for future missions to the Moon, to Mars, and elsewhere.

NEOWatcher
2015-Apr-06, 05:38 PM
A .38G gravity level would allow testing for long term effects of Mars gravity on humans, plants, and devices.
When we travel to Mars, the big issue is the long travel time in zero-G, and radiation effects. If, and when, humans do travel to Mars, they can leave experiments there.


A .16G gravity level would allow the same for the Moon.
So would a moon base. Why simulate that level of gravity when it can be done on the moon?


Zero G chamber in the center would allow for onboard easier assembly of large and massive components and structures without space suits.
So, spending billions of dollars for a spacedock is better than a few spacewalks?

Swift
2015-Apr-06, 07:25 PM
As long as we continue to make baby steps, we will remain babies.
My guess is that we will remain babies. It is not what I would wish for, but I think it is the reality. I just don't see the US spending the money on a new station; I'm not convinced the Russians will either; I know even less about them, but their economy is really hurting at the moment.

selvaarchi
2015-Apr-06, 10:07 PM
My guess is that we will remain babies. It is not what I would wish for, but I think it is the reality. I just don't see the US spending the money on a new station; I'm not convinced the Russians will either; I know even less about them, but their economy is really hurting at the moment.

You left out China and it has published plans for a space station in 7 years and the money to do it.

The other country that will have money to do something come 2024 will be India. By then it will have the world’s third largest economy (http://www.cebr.com/reports/world-economic-league-table-2015/). It should already have mastered manned space travel by then and is a country the the US can work with. Unless it works with China on their space station they will be looking at building their own.

NEOWatcher
2015-Apr-07, 02:00 AM
The other country that will have money to do something come 2024 will be India. By then it will have the world’s third largest economy (http://www.cebr.com/reports/world-economic-league-table-2015/). It should already have mastered manned space travel by then...
There's a big difference between "mastering manned space travel" and building and supporting a space station. There's a lot more technology required for lengthy habitation.
At last count, it looks like India's first manned launch will be 2020. Given the history of manned flight, I wouldn't expect something from them until nearly 2030.

USSR 1961 to 1971 (Salyut)
USA 1962 to 1973 (Skylab)
China 2003 to 2011 (Tiangong 1)

selvaarchi
2015-Apr-07, 02:11 AM
There's a big difference between "mastering manned space travel" and building and supporting a space station. There's a lot more technology required for lengthy habitation.
At last count, it looks like India's first manned launch will be 2020. Given the history of manned flight, I wouldn't expect something from them until nearly 2030.

USSR 1961 to 1971 (Salyut)
USA 1962 to 1973 (Skylab)
China 2003 to 2011 (Tiangong 1)

True if they do it on they own. That is why I expect them to team up with one or more countries and shorten the process.

marsbug
2015-Apr-07, 03:42 PM
As long as we continue to make baby steps, we will remain babies.

Look at how space is treated in politics - it's a toy of those interested in prestige and influence. We are babies in this, we will make baby steps. Considering how manned spaceflight efforts are torn about by political winds a more capable ISS 2.0 plus some manned excursions to the Moon might well be considered a win. If we could throw in a couple of small private manned LEO stations I'd be thrilled and amazed.

I have two thoughts on an ISS successor:

1: It might be that the goverment built core would be smaller, but designed to accomadate considerable expansion from private companies, as an incentive to develop private efforts in habitate building.

2: A small centrifuge, to allow experiments on biology at a range of different g's, would be a good idea.

7cscb
2015-Apr-07, 05:27 PM
As long as we continue to make baby steps, we will remain babies.

I understand. In the 60s, I was imagining a different path for space exploration. Lots of disappointments along the way. But now, I'm amazed at how quickly the industry is developing. NASA, ESA, China, India, SpaceX, Mars, asteroids, microsatellites, Planetary Resources, JWST, space tourists, etc,: A killer app for space (mining, solar energy, whatever) is not yet there but it can't be far. It seems to me we're a long way from the baby steps of decades ago.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-08, 11:47 PM
When we travel to Mars, the big issue is the long travel time in zero-G, and radiation effects. If, and when, humans do travel to Mars, they can leave experiments there.
Although humans will probably be able to remain healthy long term in .38 gravity, it would be useful to know for sure before making the huge investments required for colonization.

Crews can be shielded from radiation, and the solution to Zero G is a rotating vessel or section of a vessel enroute.


So would a moon base. Why simulate that level of gravity when it can be done on the moon?
It is possible that humans will not be able to thrive in 1/6th G long term. Again, that information may be vital in deciding what to do on the Moon.


So, spending billions of dollars for a spacedock is better than a few spacewalks?
Maintaining equipment in space with an active space program would require more than a few spacewalks. Working in space in space suits is clumsy, slow, and inherently dangerous. Working in zero-G in an Earth normal atmosphere would eventually be the only practical way to maintain reusable vessels. It would also be a preferable environment for orbital assembly of vessels and components.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-08, 11:49 PM
I understand. In the 60s, I was imagining a different path for space exploration. Lots of disappointments along the way. But now, I'm amazed at how quickly the industry is developing. NASA, ESA, China, India, SpaceX, Mars, asteroids, microsatellites, Planetary Resources, JWST, space tourists, etc,: A killer app for space (mining, solar energy, whatever) is not yet there but it can't be far. It seems to me we're a long way from the baby steps of decades ago.
I saw just the opposite. In the early days of the space program, we made giant leaps in technology and capability. Since then, it has slowed down dramatically.

Noclevername
2015-Apr-09, 02:21 AM
“We, the government, want another viable space station before this one ends,” Sam Scimemi, ISS director at NASA Headquarters, said during a Feb. 17 workshop on ISS utilization here."
I think the key word here is “viable”. I believe a space station in Earth orbit should provide several things minimum. There should be sections with 1G gravity, .38G gravity, .16G gravity, micro gravity, and zero gravity. It should include areas and facilities for being at least partially self sustaining. It should provide internal dry docks for maintaining and repairing spacecraft. That is what I would call viable.
And while you're wishing, hook me up with a free pony, would ya?

As long as we continue to make baby steps, we will remain babies.

And how would we achieve a "viable" station of such size and complexity on a NASA budget? We just don't have the feet to take more than baby steps for the foreseeable future.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-09, 07:20 AM
Grant NASA the right to open casinos near major US cities. Funding problem solved.

Noclevername
2015-Apr-09, 08:51 AM
Grant NASA the right to open casinos near major US cities. Funding problem solved.

I strongly suspect that if a government agency were to open casinos, that agency would at the very least be shut down pending a Congressional investigation, and at worst disbanded entirely. Either way, they certainly would not be allowed to keep the profits.

marsbug
2015-Apr-09, 09:46 AM
I apologise if this seems condescending, but there are a lot of folk passionate about space, and they are also creative and determined. They're looking for solutions and ways forwards. Hence if a there's a seemingly simple way to overcome NASA's budget woes and build us an ISS on steroids then there's very likely a huge roadblock for it as well.

danscope
2015-Apr-09, 06:07 PM
No mention of the space station they already have. Not a word on building on to everything we paid to boost up there in the first place. " We just like shiny new things " . What's wrong with that picture?

NEOWatcher
2015-Apr-09, 06:49 PM
No mention of the space station they already have. Not a word on building on to everything we paid to boost up there in the first place. " We just like shiny new things " . What's wrong with that picture?
No word on building anything...
I'm sure if there wasn't a push earlier, they would have started making plans for expansion and replacement of aging modules. But; this was also an international effort that also throws a wrench into the idea.
I don't see it as "shiny new things", but more of lack of foresight. In fact, they even cancelled some of the ideas such as artificial gravity (Nautilus-x and Japan's CAM).

Mir aged. It lasted 20 years. ISS is going for 25.
The Russians have stated they want to re-use their components, but they haven't said which ones. Some of them are very recent additions.

But; as we speak, another concept has come up. A space mushroom (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3030087/Could-300-billion-space-mushroom-replace-ISS-Giant-rotating-station-create-artificial-gravity-astronauts.html).
Unfortunately, that's just a concept from a company probably looking for funding or publicity. At $300 billion, it just doesn't seem to be possible.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-09, 06:49 PM
No mention of the space station they already have. Not a word on building on to everything we paid to boost up there in the first place. " We just like shiny new things " . What's wrong with that picture?
You don’t build a Cadillac by adding onto a donkey cart, you start over.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-09, 06:53 PM
I apologise if this seems condescending, but there are a lot of folk passionate about space, and they are also creative and determined. They're looking for solutions and ways forwards. Hence if a there's a seemingly simple way to overcome NASA's budget woes and build us an ISS on steroids then there's very likely a huge roadblock for it as well.
It was a joke.

NEOWatcher
2015-Apr-09, 07:09 PM
You don’t build a Cadillac by adding onto a donkey cart, you start over.
And refurbishing an old Cadillac can cost more than buying a new one.

Noclevername
2015-Apr-09, 09:19 PM
No mention of the space station they already have. Not a word on building on to everything we paid to boost up there in the first place. " We just like shiny new things " . What's wrong with that picture?
What's wrong with your picture is, the old ISS is old and parts of the structure are worn out and becoming unreliable. Not something you want in your only protection against various forms of death. You need reliable working systems in space, and the ISS just wasn't built for longevity.

danscope
2015-Apr-09, 09:21 PM
I'm sure they learned something from those two space stations. We'll stay tuned.

Best regards ,
Dan

marsbug
2015-Apr-10, 06:42 AM
It was a joke.

Ah, my lack of social skills strikes again! :(

selvaarchi
2015-Apr-10, 01:29 PM
I do not think the US government will spend money on a new space station in the current environment. Even next year with the launch of China's Tiangong-2 will not move the decision makers in the US to allocate more money for a new space station.

Come 2018 with the launch of the Tiangong-3 (the initial module of China's space station), things might change. One factor will be if China manages to win support from one or more of the other major space faring countries to join them in this venture. ESA is being actively wooed by China and France is already involved in providing technology for Tiangong-2. The danger of their(US) international partners joining China and diminishing the US role in international space ventures might make the US lawmakers change strategy and seriously consider the new station.

IsaacKuo
2015-Apr-10, 07:04 PM
I agree with the idea of a spin gravity station, but it's going to have to be leaner and cheaper than the ISS was.

Let's consider that for better or worse, SLS is going to continue going forward, and someday there's probably going to be a test flight of the thing. There's no budget for any potential payload, though. It's the elephant in the room no one likes to talk about. SLS supporters like to imagine that a magical budget fairy will conjure up the budget for a manned mission to the Moon and/or Mars to put atop the SLS...but that's wishful thinking.

Instead of just wishing real hard for the magical budget fairy, we could come up with a low budget Plan B, where a couple hollow tanks and a truss is sent up there. This forms the core of a spin station. A future visiting spacecraft could then dock with one end, and use its own thrusters to spin it up to either Lunar or Mars level gravity. Initially, life support would come strictly from the visiting capsule; the station only provides some convenient living space. Incrementally, equipment could be brought on board and installed.

This would build up the spin gravity station from the outside-in, in a way very much unlike the ISS. The outer shell is provided first, and then equipment is brought to fill it in.

This takes advantage of about the only good thing you can say about SLS, which is that it can launch something big in one go.

7cscb
2015-Apr-10, 09:45 PM
Would a tether not be simpler than a truss?

Noclevername
2015-Apr-11, 12:09 AM
Would a tether not be simpler than a truss?

yes, And a tether with a winch would make for an adjustable spin gravity.

IsaacKuo
2015-Apr-11, 12:32 AM
Would a tether not be simpler than a truss?

No, it would extremely complicate spin down, spin up, and docking.

It is important that the station is despun for docking and undocking. All of our current ISS supply spacecraft are designed around docking with something that is not spinning.

While a tether might be kept taut and stable with a station that is under constant spin, this station needs to periodically stop spinning. This would be a nightmare with a tether.

Noclevername
2015-Apr-11, 12:33 AM
No, it would extremely complicate spin down, spin up, and docking.

It is important that the station is despun for docking and undocking. All of our current ISS supply spacecraft are designed around docking with something that is not spinning.

While a tether might be kept taut and stable with a station that is under constant spin, this station needs to periodically stop spinning. This would be a nightmare with a tether.

Why not just put a section in the center with a counter-spin dock?

ADDED: You'd need such a section anyway to keep your solar panels pointed at the Sun.

IsaacKuo
2015-Apr-11, 01:04 AM
Why not just put a section in the center with a counter-spin dock?

ADDED: You'd need such a section anyway to keep your solar panels pointed at the Sun.

A section in the center would be a complicated and nontrivial addition, and you'd still have to figure out a way to transfer stuff between the central dock and the end modules. And since the docked spacecraft isn't directly connected to an end module, it can't be used to provide the life support to the end module. These are engineering challenges which are certainly solvable, but it adds time and cost.

There's no need for solar panels to counter-spin in order to point at the Sun. You simply mount the solar panels parallel to the plane of spin, and rotate the station with the spin axis pointed at the Sun. If there's a supply mission every few months, then there doesn't even need to be any adjustment of spin axis between supply missions.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-13, 05:08 PM
The US sent 135 tanks into space that were 54ft long, 27ft in diameter, Weighed 58,500 lbs, and had an internal volume of over 72,000 cubic feet. Unfortunately, they deliberately maneuvered to send them down to burn up in the Earth’s atmosphere. Image a space station we could have made with those.

crescent
2015-Apr-13, 08:38 PM
The US sent 135 tanks into space that were 54ft long, 27ft in diameter, Weighed 58,500 lbs, and had an internal volume of over 72,000 cubic feet. Unfortunately, they deliberately maneuvered to send them down to burn up in the Earth’s atmosphere. Image a space station we could have made with those.

One hears that from time to time, but I don't think it would have been viable. Those empty tanks had no wiring, no temperature control, no air purification or circulation, no power sources, and no way to dock with anything.

Look at images of the ISS or of MIR. Both are/were full of wiring and equipment, have loud fans for air circulation, and are festooned on the outside with radiators, solar panels and a bunch of other types of equipment. Each segment took years to build. The effort to turn the shuttle's external fuel tanks into a working space station would probably have been much more difficult and expensive than the building it the way it actually was built.

IsaacKuo
2015-Apr-13, 10:01 PM
The US sent 135 tanks into space that were 54ft long, 27ft in diameter, Weighed 58,500 lbs, and had an internal volume of over 72,000 cubic feet. Unfortunately, they deliberately maneuvered to send them down to burn up in the Earth’s atmosphere. Image a space station we could have made with those.

I'm pretty bitter about that also, but it is done. The big problem with leaving them in orbit would have been the stupendous amount of orbital space junk generated by the externally applied insulation foam. Designing the tanks with internal foam or some sort of external coating to prevent the foam from generating space debris would have added extra mass and thus reduced the payload.

MentalAvenger
2015-Apr-13, 10:26 PM
Nearly eight million pounds of usable hardware in LEO would have been a good start. All those tanks linked together end to end would have made a circle 2320 ft in diameter. Interconnecting sections could have been built on Earth and ferried into orbit. Of course that is ancient history, but we could learn from it. Hardware in orbit is sent to a fiery end all the time. That is where the internal zero-G working bay would be very useful, salvaging and refurbishing such hardware.

7cscb
2015-Apr-13, 10:43 PM
Bitter, but it is done? wow.

Noclevername
2015-Apr-14, 08:30 PM
A section in the center would be a complicated and nontrivial addition, and you'd still have to figure out a way to transfer stuff between the central dock and the end modules. And since the docked spacecraft isn't directly connected to an end module, it can't be used to provide the life support to the end module. These are engineering challenges which are certainly solvable, but it adds time and cost.

There's no need for solar panels to counter-spin in order to point at the Sun. You simply mount the solar panels parallel to the plane of spin, and rotate the station with the spin axis pointed at the Sun. If there's a supply mission every few months, then there doesn't even need to be any adjustment of spin axis between supply missions.

Cable ascenders and cable elevators are established technology, so transfers can be done. Tethers are also flexible, so an unplanned mass shift won't break the whole station.

Just how long of a strut would you need, to simulate each gravitational regime? Non-trivial launching and construction problems.

selvaarchi
2015-Jul-25, 05:03 PM
A new survey of the space industry conducted by the Space Frontier Foundation shows optimism on private industry construction a space station within the next 10 years.

Until we see a few plans/proposals I am not so optimistic. I do see companies like Bigelow having plans and will have a module join the ISS sometime this year but beyond that it is still concepts. If Bigelow were to have plans with SpaceX to support such an endeavor, than that will be taken seriously. Sadly have not read anything like that in the press.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2015/07/24/space-frontier-foundation-poll-finds-optimism-future-space/


Private space stations will be constructed within the next 10 years, and escalating tensions between China, Russia and the United States will not result in a new space race, according to a new survey of the space industry conducted by the Space Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to opening the space frontier to permanent human settlement through free enterprise.

Over two-thirds of survey respondents said they expect construction on private space stations to either be well under way or completed within the next decade.

NEOWatcher
2015-Jul-25, 07:39 PM
Until we see a few plans/proposals I am not so optimistic.
Bigelow has had plans, pictures and even prices for a few years now.
I just don't think they ever had a timeline because a lot of that is dependent on when the private crew transports start operating.


If Bigelow were to have plans with SpaceX to support such an endeavor, than that will be taken seriously.
They do. With Boeing too (http://www.parabolicarc.com/2013/02/04/bigelow-offering-private-space-station-at-a-fraction-of-iss-cost/).


Sadly have not read anything like that in the press.
Stuff like this can take years to evolve. So (like your link), you really don't hear anything of importance until something changes, or someone takes advantage of other related news to get their name in the headlines.

publiusr
2015-Aug-01, 07:35 PM
SLS supporters like to imagine that a magical budget fairy will conjure up the budget for a manned mission to the Moon and/or Mars to put atop the SLS...but that's wishful thinking.

About that:

"it’s possible to get humans to Mars orbit in 2033, and on the surface as soon as 2039, **within NASA’s current budget**, assuming increases for inflation."

“'Not only did we see a reasonable example of a series of missions that would enable humans to get out to Mars, we saw the cost analysis,' said Bill Nye, CEO of The Planetary Society. 'There’s no ‘Kennedy moment’ involved, there’s no extraordinary demand for doubling of the NASA budget.'”
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2726/1

More:
The workshop, funded by The Planetary Society, is an indication that the organization best known for lobbying for robotic space exploration plans to take a bigger role in human spaceflight. “I’m excited to say that we’re re-engaging with the human spaceflight community,” Nye said.

“I say this about The Planetary Society, you guys: we are not crazy. We are not pie-in-the-sky people,” said Nye.

That includes, he said, supporting the SLS, a launch vehicle that remains controversial in some parts of the space community. “When I first took the job [of Planetary Society CEO], I was under a lot of pressure to criticize the Space Launch System,” he said. “But it’s in the works, and the people doing it seem to know what they’re doing, and it really would be a great thing.”


One hears that from time to time, but I don't think it would have been viable. Those empty tanks had no wiring, no temperature control, no air purification or circulation, no power sources, and no way to dock with anything. The effort to turn the shuttle's external fuel tanks into a working space station would probably have been much more difficult and expensive than the building it the way it actually was built.

Mark Holderman--of Nautilus X fame, disagrees. Skylab was to have been wet stage first.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-10-17/news/9410160387_1_geode-external-tank-space-station

Take a look at the Skylab 2 concept:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab_II

This would be in the Earth Moon L2 point.


I'm pretty bitter about that also, but it is done.

But SLS itself is potentially stage-and-a-half, same as Atlas (remember the Atlas station concepts--Atlas SCORE, etc.) and the shuttle ET.

I can see a very lightly loaded SLS core--perhaps with longer tankage--being placed in LEO. A second launch would stage the core normally, and dock a "smaller dry station next to the wet core.

SLS might allow for something like this to be built at last
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/stsation.htm

BTW Mark Wade has updated his website with info on Pye Wacket--he will do more...

selvaarchi
2015-Nov-28, 02:56 PM
Surprise, surprise NASA does have plans for a post ISS, only it is not in :rimshot: LEO!!!!!. This report on what NASA is considering doing in Cislunar space says it clearly.

If you could have missions lasting a year in BEO in the mid 2020s, it is as good a having a permanent space station in BEO.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-considers-uses-for-cislunar-habitat/


“NASA and its partners will also develop an initial habitation capability for short-duration missions in cislunar space during the early 2020s and evolve this capability for long-duration missions in the later 2020s,” the report states. “With this long-duration habitable volume and resources, NASA and its partners will have the opportunity to validate Mars habitat concepts and systems.”

Those long-duration missions could last as long as one year. “We’re going to use this one-year shakedown cruise in cislunar space to prove that all of our systems and crew health equipment, and our crews interacting with all of that equipment, can remain healthy, productive and relatively happy,” said Sam Scimemi, director of the International Space Station at NASA Headquarters, during a Nov. 5 meeting of the NASA Advisory Council’s human exploration and operations committee here.

selvaarchi
2016-Jan-15, 10:39 AM
Bigelow Aerospace is still working on their Space Station. Their Olympus model, a 2250 cubic meter concept that includes crew quarters, vegetable growing facilities, storage, and instruments.

As it would weigh 70 tons, it will need a Falcon Heavy to get it up there.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a18958/take-a-look-inside-bigelows-space-habitat/


Bigelow Aerospace has been working on an inflatable space station for a few years, even planning a test model for use on the ISS. But in a recent tweet, they unveiled a neat cross-section view of the Olympus model, a 2250 cubic meter concept that includes crew quarters, vegetable growing facilities, storage, and instruments.

The solar powered, LEO facility also has a docking module with a 25 foot wide port. The whole thing would be substantially larger than the space station, requiring a heavy lift rocket to get into orbit, weighing a total of 70 tons. Development of the Olympus, or BA 2100, has been ongoing for the last decade, and still isn't launch ready, though it might be by the time the ISS is retired in 2024. By then, the Falcon Heavy may be up to the challenge of lifting it to orbit.

efanton
2016-Jan-15, 12:24 PM
It would make sense that any future module developed should be capable of a solar system missions. While the modules themselves would not have the propulsion required for such journeys, a separate vehicle would be required to move them. It seem pointless designing yet another space station specific only to an earth or lunar orbit.

Designing yet another space station specific only to an earth or lunar orbit, only delays a mission to Mars or other planets or moons problem by at least a decade.

NASA, ESA, Russia, China, India and all other countries of organisations should get together, work out what modules would be required for future missions, and agree specifications such as docking points, hatches, fuel gas and water hose connectors etc, so that each can continue their own research and development in the knowledge that any module developed would be interchangeable for future missions

selvaarchi
2016-Jan-15, 01:02 PM
It would make sense that any future module developed should be capable of a solar system missions. While the modules themselves would not have the propulsion required for such journeys, a separate vehicle would be required to move them. It seem pointless designing yet another space station specific only to an earth or lunar orbit.

Designing yet another space station specific only to an earth or lunar orbit, only delays a mission to Mars or other planets or moons problem by at least a decade.

NASA, ESA, Russia, China, India and all other countries of organisations should get together, work out what modules would be required for future missions, and agree specifications such as docking points, hatches, fuel gas and water hose connectors etc, so that each can continue their own research and development in the knowledge that any module developed would be interchangeable for future missions

The stumbling block is that the US government has put a restriction on NASA to sit in the same room as China to discuss space projects. In fact with China docking, for example with the ISS is not problem. As pointed out in the thread "china working with other countries except the US" (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?151588-China-is-making-headway-with-cooperation-with-other-countries-excluding-US&p=2336387#post2336387) their docking system is the same as what the Russians are using for joining American and Russian modules of ISS.

China is now in the last stages of having their own Space Station with a strong likely hood of Europe joining them. Especially if China also includes them in the moon base project. Russia because of financial constrains would also join the moon base project and maybe the Space Station. Japan have indicated they would like to join an international project for a moon base (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?148423-How-long-until-we-colonize-the-moon&p=2325457#post2325457) and they will contribute the robots to be used there. India I also see joining the group as by then it will be within their capability.

selvaarchi
2016-Feb-08, 07:39 AM
Some ideas from Bill Gerstenmaier, the head of human exploration and operations at NASA, on successful commercialization of low Earth orbit (LEO).

http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/gerstenmaier-leo-commercialization-requires-space-industry-to-be-innovative-nimble


NASA’s Bill Gerstenmaier said on Wednesday (February 3) that the key to successful commercialization of low Earth orbit (LEO) is for the space industry to become more innovative and nimble.

Commercial satellite systems like Iridium that were intended to provide voice and data services to underserved parts of the globe lost out to undersea fiber optic cables and terrestrial cell phone towers because the aerospace industry moved too slowly, he argued. “We have to be extremely nimble. … We as an industry were so slow in doing that we got whacked by a terrestrial market that could turn and deliver faster.”

The same threat hangs over potential use of the near-zero gravity environment available in LEO for applications in areas such as pharmaceuticals. Electrophoresis was once envisioned as a promising area for space commercialization because without gravity much purer substances can be produced. However, back on Earth, genetic engineering advances made it possible to do almost as good a job. “We could create a 99% pure insulin on orbit, [but] they could create a 98% pure insulin through genetic engineering. That won because they could turn to the market faster and be responsive.”

Gerstenmaier, the head of human exploration and operations at NASA, reiterated two points that he and other NASA officials have been stressing in recent months. First, it is the commercial sector’s responsibility, not NASA’s, to find the demand for future LEO space stations. Second, future LEO space stations are not likely to resemble the International Space Station (ISS), but be smaller facilities with narrower purposes and they could build on existing or planned spacecraft.

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-07, 01:24 PM
The Russians have their own ideas on what they want to do post ISS.

http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/94579/20160706/russia-plans-russian-space-station-called-ros-replace-iss.htm


Russia's announcement it plans a new space station called the Russian Orbital Station, or ROS, to replace the International Space Station (ISS) confirms the ISS won't make it to the 30th anniversary of its existence in 2028

It also seems to confirm the United States will exit from the ISS consortium of countries to focus its limited funding on its deep space programs such as landing humans on Mars by 2035. The U.S.' "ISS-xit" comes despite Russia's insistence the ISS will operate until 2024 and that Roscosmos and NASA "do not rule out that the station's flight could be extended." NASA has never confirmed its support for Russia's statement, however.

RKK Energia, the major Russian contractor for the ISS and now ROS, said plans call for ROS to initially include three modules with two more probably added in the future.

Raursch
2016-Jul-07, 02:53 PM
Instead of just wishing real hard for the magical budget fairy

The coming of the magical budget fairy seems a bit like the end of the world - continually forecast, and yet it hasn't happened yet.

Raursch
2016-Jul-10, 05:46 AM
Grant NASA the right to open casinos near major US cities. Funding problem solved.

Funding problem not solved. Have a look at the size of all casino profits in the US. And one doesn't get the profits for nothing; a substantial initial investment is required.

But maybe the US government will generate much higher profits by operating the casinos much more efficiently than everyone else.

publiusr
2016-Jul-15, 08:19 PM
Some ways to keep ISS alive
http://spacenews.com/nasa-seeking-ideas-for-use-of-space-station-docking-port/

More on Deep Space Habs beyond LEO
Deep Space Hab http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38818.msg1559723#msg1559723
https://prezi.com/ti8fu8bs4ais/etsu-2016-appalachian-forum/

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-26, 01:03 AM
This weeks issue of "The Space Review" has this article "A stepping-stone to commercial space stations"

They are looking at NASA attaching a a commercial module on the ISS itself as a stepping stone to the private sector developing one or more commercial space stations that could serve as platforms for research, tourism, or other applications. To that end NASA on July 21st issued a request for information (RFI) titled “Advancing Economic Development in Low Earth Orbit (LEO) via Commercial Use of Limited Availability, Unique International Space Station Capabilities.” The agency is seeking input for industry on how to use “limited availability” resources on the station to support commercial ventures. The deadline for responses is July 29.

The companies most likely to respond are Axiom Space and Bigelow Aerospace. Both have been working on their own on a commercial space station.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3033/1


NASA appears to be starting to do just that. On July 1, the agency issued a request for information (RFI) titled “Advancing Economic Development in Low Earth Orbit (LEO) via Commercial Use of Limited Availability, Unique International Space Station Capabilities.” The agency is seeking input for industry on how to use “limited availability” resources on the station to support commercial ventures.

Among the specific capabilities included in the RFI is the aft port on the Node 3, or Tranquility, module on the station. That port is currently in use by the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM), the prototype of a future expandable module developed by Bigelow Aerospace under a NASA contract. The module, flown to the station on a cargo resupply in April, expanded to its full size in late May and is expected to remain there for two years.

Bill Gerstenmaier, NASA associate administrator for human exploration and operations, told the space subcommittee of the Senate Commerce Committee during a July 13 NASA hearing that the agency would effectively provide one docking port—presumably the one currently occupied by BEAM and mentioned in the RFI—for a commercial module at some point in the future.

“We essentially have one of the ports on the space station that we’re going to make available to the private sector to go utilize how they want,” he said. NASA would provide power and life support for that module in addition to the docking port itself, he added. The company using the port, though, would be responsible for contracting for commercial cargo and crew services to support the module.

Gerstenmaier also suggested, as both Bigelow and Suffredini have previously said, that the module could serve as a core of a future commercial space station once the ISS reaches the end of its life. “And then at some point, when the station’s life is exceeded, they could undock from the station and be the basis for the next private sector station,” he said at the hearing.

selvaarchi
2016-Jul-26, 10:03 AM
The next paper talks about how the US is developing a commercial market in LEO and this will allow NASA to concentrate its efforts on the goal of sending American astronauts to Mars in the 2030s.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Building_a_Commercial_Market_in_Low_Earth_Orbit_99 9.html


As NASA moves in to cislunar orbits, its commercial partners will need to take the lead in low-Earth orbit by building a space economy based not solely on government contracts, but on private sector supply and demand. NASA's commercial cargo program has reinvigorated the American launch industry by helping Orbital ATK and SpaceX develop the Cygnus and Dragon capsules to supply cargo to the International Space Station (ISS).

NASA recently added a third US company, the Sierra Nevada Corporation, for ISS cargo resupply missions through 2024. Boeing and SpaceX are under contract to transport astronauts to the station within the next two years through NASA's Commercial Crew Program. For these vehicles to be economically successful in the long run, however, they will need to have private sector customers willing to pay to transport people and cargo to LEO.

NASA has released the "Economic Development of Low Earth Orbit", a new collection of papers, written by prominent economists, that explores the question of how the private sector can take advantage of government investments in LEO.

As the NASA collection's editors, Dr. Patrick Besha and Dr. Alexander MacDonald, explain, "after the government pioneers, develops, and demonstrates a space capability-from rockets to space-based communications to Earth observation satellites-the private sector realizes its market potential and continues innovating. As new companies establish a presence, the government often withdraws from the market or becomes one of many customers."

publiusr
2016-Jul-29, 10:25 PM
Axiom's ring station interests me.

Now, remember what I said about stage-and-a-half designs in my post above--#44:
Now look at the potential living space here:

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?161989-NASA-Welds-Together-1st-SLS-Hydrogen-Test-Tank-for-America%92s-Moon-Mars-Rocket-%96-Fligh

That could be another Atlas Score/Geode station all by itself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCORE_(satellite)
http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/CONVAIR%20ATLAS%20MOL%20PAGE.htm

Like Atlas--and unlike the External Tanks: http://aeromaster.tripod.com/grp.htm

SLS will have an engine block--making it look a lot like the Bekuo core: http://nickd.freehostia.com/OrbiterVault/bekuo.html

I can easily see this being refueled pushing an Axiom station into a cycler orbit--with the main tank then used as an additional wet stage station that might be deposited in Mars orbit if separated early enough. The ring station becomes the cycler itself.

selvaarchi
2016-Aug-02, 08:52 AM
They are looking at NASA attaching a a commercial module on the ISS itself as a stepping stone to the private sector developing one or more commercial space stations that could serve as platforms for research, tourism, or other applications. To that end NASA on July 21st issued a request for information (RFI) titled “Advancing Economic Development in Low Earth Orbit (LEO) via Commercial Use of Limited Availability, Unique International Space Station Capabilities.” The agency is seeking input for industry on how to use “limited availability” resources on the station to support commercial ventures. The deadline for responses is July 29.

This weeks The Space Review has information that the deadline for a request for information about using a docking port on the station has been extended until August 12. It also contains information on last month’s ISS Research and Development Conference in San Diego which has a direct bearing on this subject.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3036/1


At last month’s ISS Research and Development Conference in San Diego, some of those prospective customers talked about their interest in using the space station. Kris Kimel, president of Kentucky Space and chairman of a commercial spinoff, Space Tango, talked about that company’s efforts to support research on the ISS.

“Space Tango enables R&D for bioengineering and biomanufacturing in the microgravity environment of space,” he said during a panel discussion at the conference. The company, which has flown several experiments to the station, was on the verge of launching its first permanent lab, TangoLab-1, to the ISS. That hardware was flown to the station on a SpaceX Dragon cargo mission that launched a few days after the conference.

“We allow customers, through the design of this microlaboratory, the ability to do lots of different experiments, from materials to physics to biomedicine,” he said. TangoLab-1 can accommodate 21 different “CubeLabs” simultaneously, which can be switched out as needed.

Space Tango, Kimel said, has a particular interest in biomedicine on the ISS—something he calls “exomedicine”—that he believes can have applications for terrestrial medicine. “Our focus primarily is not necessarily on the six people up there but on the seven billion people down here,” he said. “What we’re really looking at is using microgravity in creative ways to solve the really difficult problems on Earth.”

“The big question that drives us is, what if the next medical breaktheough isn’t on the planet?” he said. “We fundamentally believe, from a lot of the work we’ve done and many other people in this field, that there are some huge breakthroughs to be learned from microgravity.”

selvaarchi
2016-Aug-12, 01:03 AM
The Russians have their own ideas on what they want to do post ISS.

And maybe not as they do have financial problems.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/vshos.html#2016


Plans for the post-ISS Russian Orbital Station, ROS, are in limbo, as the nation's space program has faced budget cuts in 2016. Although the industry has now completed formulating the overall design of the future station, the cash-strapped Roskosmos was yet to approve the formal technical assignment for the development of ROS as of June 2016. The addendum to the Federal Contract, which would fund further development work on the project, has not been issued either.

The ROS project stalled despite being formally approved by three strategy documents governing the current Russian space program: The 10-year Federal Space Program from 2016 to 2025, known as FKP-2025; The Strategy for Russian Piloted Space Flight until 2035 and the Concept of the Russian Piloted Space Flight.

Despite current funding problems, the key Russian manned space flight contractor, RKK Energia, continues low-level work on the ROS concept, including two new modules, in addition to three earlier components already in active development.

selvaarchi
2016-Aug-21, 11:02 AM
The Americans are looking to hand over the operations of the ISS to a private company in the mid 2020s.

http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/missions/iss/nasa-considers-handing-iss-private-company/


The International Space Station (ISS) could soon fall into private hands, according to a statement made by a NASA official on Thursday, Aug. 18. The agency is mulling the possibility of handing-off control of the orbital laboratory to a commercial company by the mid-2020s.

NASA revealed the possibility during a press conference focused on future manned missions to Mars.

“NASA’s trying to develop economic development in low-Earth orbit,” said Bill Hill, NASA Deputy Associate Administrator for Exploration Systems Development. “Ultimately, our desire is to hand the space station over to either a commercial entity or some other commercial capability so that research can continue in low-Earth orbit.”

publiusr
2016-Aug-27, 05:18 PM
More talk about wet-stage stations
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/space-flight/nasa-funds-partnership-to-explore-making-space-habitats-out-of-used-rocket-fuel-tanks

selvaarchi
2016-Aug-30, 12:23 AM
This week's release of "The Space Review" highlights a free ebook released by NASA titled "Economic Development of Low Earth Orbit".

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3050/1


NASA is making a major bet on the future of commercial space activities in low Earth orbit. The agency has been increasingly emphasizing commercial use of the International Space Station, ranging from experiments performed there to the use of the station as a launch pad for smallsats and, just recently, soliciting ideas for installing a commercial module on the ISS (see “A stepping-stone to commercial space stations”, The Space Review, July 25, 2016). The goal of this is to stimulate both a demand for various commercial activities in LEO, and a supply of facilities to service that demand, that can continue after the ISS is retired some time in the mid to late 2020s.

Such an effort brings with it major challenges, some technical and some economic. It’s the latter that is the subject of Economic Development of Low Earth Orbit, a free ebook released by NASA this summer. It’s a collection of research papers commissioned by the space agency to examine economic issues associated with NASA’s commercialization efforts. While not a comprehensive exploration of the subject, the papers included in the book touch on some of the key problems, and potential solutions to them, that commercialization effort faces.

The five papers included in the book take a look at both big-picture issues, such as facilitating commercialization of work on the ISS, to a specific examination of the potential of one particular area, protein crystallization for drug development. These documents are research papers, rather than how-to guides, but do offer some recommendations for how NASA can help further commercial activities in LEO.

selvaarchi
2017-Aug-01, 06:51 AM
The latest issue of "The Space Review" carries an article on - Pondering the future of the International Space Station. Bottom line - there is no clear path of what to do next:(

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3297/1


Throughout the conference, though, during the panel sessions and paper presentations, at breaks and in discussions in a sometimes-congested exhibit hall, there was an undercurrent of uncertainty. Just how long will the ISS, this “incredible structure” in low Earth orbit, be around?

NASA and the other international partners have committed to operating the station through 2024. But what happens after that remains unknown. Some of the commercial partners using the ISS, hailed at the conference, want answers sooner rather than later.

A section of the NASA Transition Authorization Act of 2017, signed into law in March, directs NASA to develop an “ISS transition plan” by December 1, with updates every two years thereafter through 2023. That plan requires NASA to assess both its research on the ISS to support the agency’s exploration objectives as well as development of commercial activities in LEO. It also calls for cost estimates of extending ISS to 2028 and 2030, and an evaluation of the “feasible and preferred service life” of the station, among other requirements.

NASA hasn’t said much about the work on that transition plan, and how interested it would be in another extension. Agency officials have argued in the past that they believe they can complete the research they need to do on the ISS to support its exploration goals, from mitigating human health risks for long-duration spaceflight to developing life support systems for such missions, by 2024.

Robert Lightfoot, the acting administrator of NASA, suggested that decisions about the future of the ISS would go beyond simply determining if NASA has met its research goals on the station. There are also, he said, policy issues, including concerns about another gap in human spaceflight and NASA’s role in fostering economic development in LEO.

selvaarchi
2017-Sep-28, 02:18 AM
This thread was active 3 years ago the died down. China's launch of Tiangong-3 has slipped a year and Tiangong-2 has been a great success. The problem is now with their rocket LM-5. Once they fix the rocket problems they will be on their way. Even if the ISS gets another extension,I will expect to see ESA and Russia play some sort of roll in the CSS.

In the mean time ISS partners are in discussion about the extension of the ISS beyond 2024 and the deep space habitat.

http://spacenews.com/international-partners-in-no-rush-regarding-future-of-iss/


The partner space agencies of the International Space Station said Sept. 25 they have had discussions about the future of the station beyond 2024, but indicated no urgency in making a decision.

At a press conference during the 68th International Astronautical Congress here, NASA Acting Administrator Robert Lightfoot said he has talked with the other partners about both an extension of the ISS as well as cooperation on the agency’s proposed Deep Space Gateway, although no decisions on either were imminent.

“We’ve got a list of criteria that we’re putting together to say what would we do post-2024,” he said, referring to past studies that conclued it’s technically feasible to operate the ISS beyond that date. “This is something that we’ve talked about pretty consistently, whether it’s at our level of the heads of agencies or the level just below.”

selvaarchi
2017-Sep-30, 01:45 AM
Canada to build two robotic arms for the deep space habitat.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/moon-robotics-csa-1.4313051


The Canadian Space Agency is working to develop robotic arms as its contribution to a small lunar outpost to be built by international partners in the next decade.

Earlier this week, the American and Russian space agencies signed a statement long-term space projects, which focus on the so-called deep space gateway.

The small space station would be placed in orbit between the Earth and the moon.

"For Canada, the challenge right now is to identify what our contribution could be to humanity's next step in human exploration," said Gilles Leclerc, the Canadian agency's head of space exploration.

"We are defining what Canada will do in the next 30 years in space."

selvaarchi
2017-Oct-27, 03:30 PM
Canada to build two robotic arms for the deep space habitat.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/moon-robotics-csa-1.4313051Now the Europeans are also chipping in with their contributions to the deep space habitat (DSH).

http://spacenews.com/european-space-officials-outline-desired-contribution-to-deep-space-gateway/

"Europe’s aerospace industry is getting ready for NASA’s proposed Deep Space Gateway, hoping Europe will have its own module at the lunar-orbit space station resupplied by a European transportation system.

During a session on the final day of Space Tech Expo Europe in Bremen, Germany, Frederic Masson, an engineer at French space agency CNES, said France is already considering ways to increase performance of the upcoming Ariane 6 launcher to make it fit to contribute to humankind’s next big space endeavor."

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

selvaarchi
2017-Nov-01, 01:48 PM
John Thornton, chief executive of Astrobotic, makes the case for a Deep Space Gateway (DSG).

http://spacenews.com/op-ed-the-deep-space-gateway-as-a-cislunar-port/


How, then, do we strategically unite this groundswell of interest from the administration and NASA with international and commercial partners in a way that fosters a sustainable ecosystem of exploration and commerce on and around the moon? How do we best leverage NASA’s current investments and upcoming exploration missions in a manner that best supports America’s exploration, geopolitical, and economic interests? The answer lies with NASA’s proposed Deep Space Gateway (DSG).

As NASA has outlined, the DSG has the potential to be an ideal platform for re-establishing and securing a sustainable American lunar presence by demonstrating technology, proving an exploration architecture, and acquiring much-needed experience for deep space missions to destinations like Mars. At the same time, the DSG’s lunar proximity and permanent presence would present an unprecedented opportunity to advance near-term surface exploration and development. It will give NASA, as well as international and commercial partners, including Astrobotic, a long-term platform from which to support our lunar activities.

selvaarchi
2017-Dec-01, 08:53 PM
"A new edition of an international space exploration planning document to be released early next year will offer an updated plan for human missions to the moon and Mars, emphasizing the role that NASA’s proposed Deep Space Gateway could play."

http://spacenews.com/deep-space-gateway-key-part-of-updated-exploration-roadmap/


In January, NASA and 14 international space agencies plan to publish their common goals for exploration, including an extended presence in low Earth orbit, a cislunar habitat, moon missions and eventual excursions to Mars, in an updated Global Exploration Roadmap being drafted by the International Space Exploration Coordination Group (ISECG).

Since NASA’s first flight of its heavy-lift Space Launch System with an Orion capsule is scheduled for as soon as late 2019, it’s time to decide “what we are going to do with these vehicles,” Kathy Laurini, NASA senior adviser for exploration and space operations, said during a Global Exploration Roadmap community workshop at the NASA Ames Research Center Nov. 29. “We’ve been engaged with our international partners on how we’ll use these to explore together.”

ISECG, a voluntary organization whose members share non-binding plans and objectives, published its last Global Exploration Roadmap in 2013. ISECG members will use the new Roadmap to show domestic policymakers and funding agencies how specific programs will contribute to global endeavors, said Laurini, who also serves as ISECG chair.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-04, 10:18 AM
NASA has missed a deadline of 1st December 2017 to submit the report to Congress on the next step.

http://spacenews.com/report-calls-for-iss-research-transition-plan-and-use-of-alternative-platforms/


NASA and its international partners have committed to operating the ISS only through 2024, and support for an extension of station operations beyond that point is uncertain. A NASA authorization bill enacted in March 2017 directed NASA to develop an ISS transition plan to show how the agency will shift from “from the current regime that relies heavily on NASA sponsorship to a regime where NASA could be one of many customers of a low-Earth orbit non-governmental human space flight enterprise.”

The authorization bill set a Dec. 1 deadline for the report. However, as of earlier last month the agency had yet to submit the report to Congress.

The report’s call for a transition plan stems from both addressing the growing utilization of the ISS as well as the expectation that research in low Earth orbit will need to continue beyond 2024. The committee noted in its report that both internal and external facilities at the ISS for hosting experiments are nearly full, but suggested that privately-developed capabilities would be a more effective means of meeting demand versus building more government-funded facilities for a station that may only operate until the mid-2020s.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-17, 02:07 PM
Scientific American has an article on the Deep Space Gateway (DSG) project.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/proposed-space-station-aims-for-the-moon-and-beyond/


The next chapter in cosmic exploration is starting to take shape: NASA engineers have proposed a space station that—if Congress approves its funding—would begin orbiting the moon in about a decade. A primary goal is to develop the infrastructure and experience to one day land humans on Mars.

The Deep Space Gateway (DSG) project would likely be a collaboration among the U.S., Russia and other international partners. It would sit in a lunar orbit about 240,000 miles from Earth—1,000 times farther than the International Space Station (ISS). This would put it outside Earth's protective magnetic field, letting scientists measure the effects of deep-space radiation on humans and instruments. The station could also be a relay point for expeditions to the moon's surface. Plans for lunar landers—bearing humans or robots, or both—are still under discussion. NASA officials say astronauts and construction materials could be ferried to lunar orbit in four Orion rocket launches sometime after 2019

7cscb
2018-Jan-17, 03:57 PM
It seems to me this type of project should include China and likely will. There will likely be strong commercial participation.

...hopefully.

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-18, 02:03 AM
It seems to me this type of project should include China and likely will. There will likely be strong commercial participation.

...hopefully.Do not see China joining during Trump's presidency. But as the time line for a space station around the moon is mid 2020s to end 2020s it could happen.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

selvaarchi
2018-Jan-24, 11:57 AM
The partners of the ISS had high level talks on Deep Space Gateway in Japan.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a15855983/nasa-roscosmos-tokyo-talks/


Top NASA officials and their partners in the International Space Station program gathered in Tokyo this past Friday and Monday, Popular Mechanics has learned, for behind-closed-doors talks on the next big step in human spaceflight: the lunar orbiting station. Officially known as the Deep Space Gateway, or DSG, the modular outpost will occupy an egg-shaped orbit around the moon in the 2020s, when it replaces the ISS and becomes the main destination for astronauts and cosmonauts.

Although all partners generally agree on the idea of the DSG, the exact design and use of the future outpost is still up for debate. NASA hoped to use the outpost as a springboard for missions to Mars, while others are pushing for the exploration of the lunar surface. These diverse goals will be hard to reconcile in one space station because of technical and financial differences and limitations.

Russia has also been looking at other options post ISS

http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Russia_Top_Space_Designer_Says_Work_on_Potential_N ew_Station_Moon_Trips_Ongoing_999.html


Russia is set to spend the next decade working on a potential new station that might be built if the International Space Station (ISS) project is terminated, as well as a spacecraft capable of making trips to the Moon, General Designer of Russia's Manned Programs Yevgeny Mikrin said Tuesday.

The ISS participants have agreed to maintain the program until 2024, but it is unclear what will happen afterward. In April last year, Igor Komarov, director general of the Russian national space agency, Roscosmos, said the Russian side was open to extending the program until 2028. However, no final decision has been made on the future of the project. The participants include Russian, US, Japanese, European and Canadian space agencies.

"If the decision is made to stop the work of the ISS, a Russian station may be set up... It is planned to include five modules," Mikrin said at the Academic Space Conference in Moscow.

The station would be able to house a crew of three and it would weigh about 60 tonnes, that is, almost seven times less than the ISS.

selvaarchi
2018-Feb-18, 12:01 PM
Well looks like NASA and their partners are going for a Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway. This will happen in the 2020s. Just as China will be going to the moon the old fashioned way. Unless they can hasten the development of the LM9. I expect ESA and Russia to have one foot in each camp.

http://www.moondaily.com/reports/NASAs_Lunar_Outpost_will_Extend_Human_Presence_in_ Deep_Space_999.html


As NASA sets its sights on returning to the Moon, and preparing for Mars, the agency is developing new opportunities in lunar orbit to provide the foundation for human exploration deeper into the solar system. For months, the agency has been studying an orbital outpost concept in the vicinity of the Moon with U.S. industry and the International Space Station partners. As part of the fiscal year 2019 budget proposal, NASA is planning to build the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway in the 2020s.

The platform will consist of at least a power and propulsion element and habitation, logistics and airlock capabilities. While specific technical and mission capabilities as well as partnership opportunities are under consideration, NASA plans to launch elements of the gateway on the agency's Space Launch System or commercial rockets for assembly in space.

selvaarchi
2018-Mar-01, 09:53 AM
Farewell NASA's Deep Space Gateway and welcome Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway. What you might say! It is the same but we have a new administration:D

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2018/20180226-lop-g-snark-details.html


Remember NASA's Deep Space Gateway? The proposed miniature space station in lunar orbit that will serve as a training ground for deep space, and a waypoint for surface missions? Our next big step for the human exploration of the solar system? The project I wrote a big piece on last year, titled NASA unveiled new plans for getting humans to Mars, and hardly anyone noticed?

Well, in NASA's new budget proposal, the Deep Space Gateway is gone! It has been replaced with something called the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway... which is actually just the Deep Space Gateway, with a different name. In other words, the DSG is now LOP-G. It’s a stealth re-brand!

When I asked NASA headquarters why the name changed, a representative said they chose Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway because it's more descriptive, and that they're still planning on coming up with a better name.

selvaarchi
2018-Mar-08, 05:40 AM
NASA received 190 abstracts when it requested the global science community to submit ideas leveraging the gateway in lunar orbit to advance scientific discoveries. They have now invited scientists and engineers to a workshop to learn more about their ideas.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/scientists-share-ideas-for-gateway-activities-near-the-moon


NASA is looking at how the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway can create value for both robotic and human exploration in deep space.

In late 2017, the agency asked the global science community to submit ideas leveraging the gateway in lunar orbit to advance scientific discoveries in a wide range of fields. NASA received more than 190 abstracts covering topics human health and performance, Earth observation, astrophysics, heliophysics, and lunar and planetary sciences, as well as infrastructure suggestions to support breakthrough science.

Although it is too early to select specific research for the gateway, the workshop marks the first time in more than a decade the agency’s human spaceflight program brought scientists from a variety of disciplines together to discuss future exploration.

“We are in the early design and development stages for the gateway, and we were curious about the level of interest in using this platform for science including the scale and scope of instrumentation scientists might want to see onboard,” said Jason Crusan, director, Advanced Exploration Systems at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “We were impressed by the breadth of the abstract responses and invited scientists and engineers to a workshop to learn more.”

selvaarchi
2018-Mar-17, 05:31 AM
Green light from the Trump administration in the latest for the a cislunar space station program.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/cislunar-station-new-name-presidents-budget/


The Trump Administration is proposing to formally start a cislunar space station program and begin assembly early in the next decade with launch of the first element. The Power and Propulsion Element (PPE) is the core module of the station, now named the “Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway” (LOP-G).

As a part of commercial space industry initiatives for human exploration, the Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 NASA budget request submitted by the President to Congress in February also proposed an accelerated, dedicated commercial launch of the PPE in 2022.

The PPE was previously scheduled to launch as a secondary payload on Exploration Mission-2 (EM-2), which is currently planned to be the first crewed Orion spacecraft mission launch on NASA’s Space Launch System (SLS) rocket. With the PPE no longer on the EM-2 manifest, NASA is evaluating changes to that mission, including aspirations of flying the Habitation module on a more ambitious flight for Orion’s first crew.

selvaarchi
2018-May-15, 03:50 PM
Latest The Space Review has a very negative opinion on the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3494/1


A consensus has developed for crewed lunar return. The Trump Administration has made it their official policy, Congress seems supportive, and other countries, who have never been to the Moon, are eager to take part in this program.

Two components have emerged in NASA’s plans to return to the Moon. The first is to establish a human tended space station in lunar orbit. Originally called the Deep Space Gateway, this program was renamed the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway (LOP-G) by the Trump Administration. The second component is to return humans to the surface of the Moon and establish a lunar base. Thus far NASA has been short on details regarding the latter.

But can we afford to do both components? The answer is a resounding no! Returning humans to the lunar surface is the primary goal of the Trump Administration and is the consensus goal. It is a goal that will inspire the public and the next generation of scientists and engineers. LOP-G is an unneeded and costly diversion that should be promptly relegated to the dustbin of history.

selvaarchi
2018-May-30, 09:51 AM
This week's The Space Reviewee covers the pro and cons of having the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway (LOP-G).

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3502/1


The Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway (LOP-G), despite its inelegant name, has been described by its proponents as the next reasonable step in human exploration of the Moon and Mars. We have been to the Moon before without a gateway station, so it isn’t an absolute must for returning to the Moon. Several practicable Mars mission architectures have been proposed leaving from low Earth orbit, so it is not an indispensable option to put humans on Mars.

The technical justification—not to be confused with the political justification—for LOP-G comes down to whether or not there is a greater value in having a lunar gateway than just going back to the lunar surface in a manner similar to what was proposed in the Constellation program. It is not a simple question to answer.

LOP-G, if it goes forward, will live in the political reality that SLS, Orion, and the International Space Station do. All three have become large jobs program in addition to any other benefits that they provide. It is unlikely that any of these three programs are going away soon. The Senate is balking at ending or commercializing the ISS in 2025. The programs provide a lot of very good jobs in the states and districts of very powerful members of Congress. It would be political suicide for members from these places to allow these programs to end. Their existence leaves limited money for developing new systems.

When making any tough decision it is useful to make a list of pros and cons and then weight them to come up with a good opinion. I am going to go through what I consider to be valid factors in such a decision.

selvaarchi
2018-Jun-02, 06:56 AM
NASA expects its 1st element for the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway, the Power and Propulsion Element (PPE), to be ready for launch in 2022. No dates yet for the other elements of the Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway.:(

http://spacenews.com/nasa-to-request-proposals-for-first-gateway-element-later-this-summer/


NASA now expects to release a draft request for proposals for the first element of the proposed Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway this summer, several months later that previously planned.

In an update posted on the Federal Business Opportunities website May 31, NASA said it expects to release the draft solicitation for the Power and Propulsion Element (PPE) of the Gateway in June or July, followed by an industry day at the Glenn Research Center. The update didn’t state when a final solicitation would be released, but said NASA expected final proposals to be due in November.

In the previous formal update about the PPE program, posted to the same website in February, NASA said it was expecting to release a draft solicitation in April, with proposals due in late July. The agency didn’t explain the delayed schedule for the PPE program in its statement.

The PPE is the first element of the Gateway, providing power for later elements as well as electric propulsion. NASA plans to later add to the Gateway modules for habitation and logistics, as well as an airlock and docking ports for visiting Orion spacecraft. The Gateway is intended to support future robotic and crewed missions to the lunar surface as well as build up experience for future human missions to Mars.

selvaarchi
2018-Jul-28, 12:28 AM
"Koichi Wakata, JAXA vice president and astronaut, helps chart future of ISS and human space exploration"

https://spacenews.com/jaxa-astronaut-charts-future/


Koichi Wakata, the Japanese space agency’s vice president and director general for human spaceflight technology, is intimately familiar with the International Space Station. As an astronaut, he helped assemble the space station in 2000 and lived onboard for four months in 2009 and six months in 2013 and 2014. Now, Wakata leads JAXA’s preparation for the eventual transition from a single government owned and operated outpost to one or more new stations in low Earth orbit (LEO). Wakata spoke with SpaceNews correspondent Debra Werner during the ISS Research & Development conference in San Francisco June 23-26.

selvaarchi
2018-Jul-28, 12:46 AM
'Microgravity entrepreneurs eager to know what comes after ISS'

https://spacenews.com/microgravity-business-uncertainty/

[QUOTE]It’s a tricky time for entrepreneurs whose businesses rely on the International Space Station.

Uncertainty over the timing of the orbiting outpost’s retirement and the eventual transition to one or more new platforms is making it challenging for companies to attract investors and plan for the future.

Part of the confusion stems from President’s Trump’s budget proposal to halt direct U.S. government funding of ISS after 2024. Speakers at the ISS Research & Development conference here July 23 to 26 emphasized the need for ongoing human activity in low Earth orbit and said the fate of ISS will be determined by its international partners: the United States, Canada, Japan, the Russian Federation and the European Space Agency’s 11 member states.

Even the United States has not completed a roadmap for its future in low Earth orbit.[QUOTE]

publiusr
2018-Aug-03, 09:53 PM
I wonder if this may play a role:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_Control_Module

That might make a good Lunar gateway coreblock--and it was "placed in a caretaker status at NRL's Payload Processing Facility in Washington, D.C. Should it become necessary to complete and launch ICM, it is estimated that it would take between two and two-and-a-half years to do so."

"Since the ICM was mothballed, a variety of new uses for it have been proposed. Most seriously, it was proposed for use as part of a robotic servicing mission for the Hubble Space Telescope before the final Shuttle servicing mission was approved. The ICM has also been suggested as an integral part of a new telescope based on unused spy satellite hardware,[6] and even for use in its original role in the event of removal of the Russian Orbital Segment of the ISS."

7cscb
2018-Aug-04, 01:31 PM
"it would take between two and two-and-a-half years"

I'd be surprised if it took so little time. Also, newer rockets can/will accommodate wider payloads. I think this is a significant consideration for such a payload.

selvaarchi
2018-Aug-24, 03:25 PM
Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway to have a moon manned lander, courtesy of Japan.

https://japantoday.com/category/tech/Japanese-space-agency-to-build-manned-lunar-craft


JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) has announced that it is planning to build the first manned Japanese lunar aircraft in history. JAXA will collaborate with the plans of American and European space agencies, aiming to start production in 2020. Ideally the finished aircraft will head for the moon 10 years later.

According to the proposed plans, the "lander" (device responsible for anchoring to the moon’s surface) will be developed by Japan and will look a bit like a table with four legs. It will be jettisoned from a space station orbiting the moon (that one’s NASA’s responsibility, a follow-up to the International Space Station forecast to launch in 2022).

selvaarchi
2018-Sep-11, 05:39 PM
"NASA updates Lunar Gateway plans"

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/09/nasa-lunar-gateway-plans/


NASA management updated the agency’s human exploration plans for the 2020s to the NASA Advisory Council’s (NAC) Human Exploration and Operations (HEO) Committee last month at the Ames Research Center in California. The focus of the evolving plans for the next decade is launch, assembly, and operations of a human-tended space station in high lunar orbit.

Separate modules of the lunar gateway are planned to be launched to the Moon beginning in 2022, and NASA provided the latest look at the pieces and a forecast of their launch schedule. A commitment of funding for the gateway project is still forthcoming, but the Power and Propulsion Element (PPE) is the module that would launch first.

NASA plans to award contracts to one or more of the commercial bidders early next year to build, launch, and demonstrate an electric propulsion spacecraft that meets requirements for a Gateway PPE. After a one-year demonstration period, NASA would then exercise a contract option to take over control of the spacecraft.

selvaarchi
2018-Nov-18, 12:02 PM
"Canada not sold on U.S-led lunar Gateway despite NASA boss’ direct pitch"

https://spacenews.com/canada-not-sold-on-u-s-led-lunar-gateway-despite-nasa-boss-direct-pitch/


NASA’s top official came to Canada to make his pitch for the country to become involved in a U.S.-lead lunar space mission but that direct appeal didn’t budge Canadian government officials, at least for now.

selvaarchi
2019-Apr-18, 12:51 PM
An Op-ed in spacenews by Robert Zubrin pans 'Lunar Orbit Tollbooth.'.

https://spacenews.com/op-ed-lunar-gateway-or-moon-direct/


NASA has proposed to build a lunar orbiting space station, called the lunar Gateway, to use as a base for lunar exploration. This plan is severely defective.

The Gateway project may be compared to a deal in which you are offered a chance to rent an office in Thule, Greenland, on the following terms: 1. You pay to construct the building. 2. You accept a 30-year lease with high monthly rents and no exit clause. 3. You agree to spend one month per year there for the next 30 years. 4. You agree to fly through Thule whenever you travel anywhere from now on.

Few would find such a proposition attractive. The lunar Gateway project is no better. It will cost a fortune to build, a fortune to maintain, and it will add to the cost, risk, and timing constraints of all subsequent missions to the moon or Mars by adding an unnecessary stop along the way.

To understand just how suboptimal a plan the lunar Gateway is, we need to contrast it with what would be done as part of a well-conceived effort to get the job done as swiftly and as potently as possible. The plan to do lunar exploration this way is called Moon Direct.

21st Century Schizoid Man
2019-Apr-18, 04:56 PM
Not sure what happens in the **** era.

Roger E. Moore
2019-Apr-18, 05:25 PM
Not sure what happens in the **** era.

I see what you did there. :)

Roger E. Moore
2019-Jun-07, 05:24 PM
The question appears to have been answered. The ISS is about to become a tourist trap. No, seriously.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48560874

selvaarchi
2019-Jun-08, 01:40 AM
The question appears to have been answered. The ISS is about to become a tourist trap. No, seriously.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48560874

Would they send paying customers when their American shuttle has hopefully just been approved for use!!!!

selvaarchi
2019-Jun-11, 02:48 PM
The Space Review has a article that covers more then the paying customers..

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3731/1


When NASA decided to announce its long-awaited new initiative to support commercial activities on the International Space Station and low Earth orbit, it eschewed NASA Headquarters or its other centers as the venue for its announcement. Instead, the agency went to New York City, holding the announcement at the Nasdaq exchange, a form of stage-setting to argue that the station was open for business.

“Today is a very remarkable day,” Jeff DeWit, NASA’s chief financial officer, said at the briefing. “NASA is opening the International Space Station to commercial opportunities, and marketing these opportunities as we’ve never done before.”

What the agency rolled out over the course of an hour was a multi-step approach to stimulating both the demand for facilities like the ISS as well as the supply of future commercial facilities that NASA hopes will one day succeed the station.

selvaarchi
2019-Jun-11, 03:06 PM
And Popular Mechanics looks further into the future and looks at some concepts for space stations.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/satellites/a27886809/future-of-iss-space-station/


NASA reopened the International Space Station to space tourists last week, prompting a flurry of media attention and geek exuberance. The focus is on the opportunity for space tourists to visit ISS, a $35,000-a-night excursion for customers, but the part of the announcement that received less attention will likely have a bigger long-term impact: newly relaxed rules for-profit research done in orbit.

Projecting these trends into the future is the only way to see what may be enabled by these changes. Of course, predicting the future of spaceflight has been a fool’s errand and invites future readers to laugh with well-earned derision, but let’s hit fast forward to imagine the future of space stations 5 and 10 years into the future.

All of the business activities mentioned are based on current efforts, in and out of NASA while some are only used as examples of what’s possible, and should not be taken as an endorsement (but we think they're cool).

selvaarchi
2019-Jul-09, 03:54 PM
Looks like the USA will still have a space station after the ISS is decommissioned. Though it might be a military one.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pentagon_seeks_ideas_for_small_military_space_stat ion_999.html


The Defense Innovation Unit of the Pentagon announced a call for ideas for a small, autonomous military space station this week.

The "solicitation brief," known in civilian circles as a request for proposal, seeks "solutions for a self-contained and free flying orbital outpost. The solution must be capable of supporting space assembly, microgravity experimentation, logistics and storage, manufacturing, training, test and evaluation, hosting payloads, and other functions."

It specifies no more than 35 cubic feet of available experimentation space, indicating it is inappropriate for human habitation. The craft must be able to move in its own orbit, be made of material conducive to low Earth orbit, and be ready for flight two years after a contractor is chosen, the brief stipulates.

The space station would be scalable, or expandable, with the capability of carrying attachments, such as an exterior robotic arm, and eventually, human passengers. The brief does not specifically address the craft's purpose, but appears to be a space station exclusively for military purposes

publiusr
2019-Jul-13, 10:40 PM
MOL won't die.