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sarongsong
2005-Jan-18, 09:35 PM
"Troy Hurtubise has done the seemingly impossible with his newest invention...see through walls, as if there was no barrier at all..."
http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c=6657

Nicolas
2005-Jan-18, 09:50 PM
I would like to see evidence of that before I really believe it.

Also, how did he walk against a wall, I mean does the apparatus really make the wall itself seem invisible, or does it just do this on a screen? If it's on a screen, I can't see how he hurt himself running into the wall.

What's also strange is that the thing makes even lead completely invisible, but only the outer surface of his hand.

When thinking about it, I belive really little about the story at this point.

sarongsong
2005-Jan-18, 10:04 PM
Remember the guy (http://outside.away.com/magazine/0597/0597grizzlies.html) in the 'grizzly-proof' suit?

zebo-the-fat
2005-Jan-18, 10:13 PM
includes black, white, red and fluorescent light sources, as well as seven industrial lasers.

Black flourescent light ?? (UV maybe?)

Sounds like a LOT of light sources in this thing! :o

Nicolas
2005-Jan-18, 10:17 PM
Concerning the suit:

I know, I recognized it in the photos.

But that is "just" a matter of making things strong and limited in their joints, fluffying yourself inside and voila. Something completely different than Angle Light...

Wolverine
2005-Jan-18, 10:24 PM
While the "Angel Light" whatchamahoozit indeed sounds far-fetched, I remember thinking the same thing about Hurtubise's "fire paste" when the story first broke. While I'm still curious to see more independent testing on his ultra-heat-resistant concoction, I thought it impressive enough that I'm certainly willing to examine evidence supporting claims about the new invention without jumping to conclusions.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-18, 10:28 PM
My idea. I want extra info before I reject or completely believe it. For now, I'm in a waiting mode, with strong doubts on certain elements of the story.

TinFoilHat
2005-Jan-18, 10:30 PM
I call hoax.

It's a deathray/invisibility beam! That operates on no known physics, and whose design came to him in a dread! And the list of items supposedly contained within it is word salad technobabble.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-18, 10:32 PM
http://baytoday.ca/uploads/content/troyburnresized.jpg

Fire Paste? No problemo!!! But some paste to keep water from penetrating his roof? ooooooops :D :D :D

sarongsong
2005-Jan-18, 10:44 PM
Whatever he is, he is entertaining...Follow Troy to the lab to find out how the paste works (http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=8/31/2004). (MP Video)

Van Rijn
2005-Jan-18, 10:50 PM
I figure hoax, but ... from some of the comments in the article I wonder if he has a powerful gamma ray source in there some place. Sure you can see through walls but you'll kill everyone in the beam!

Nicolas
2005-Jan-18, 11:00 PM
What is the principle behind gamma rays making a wall invisible?

Gmann
2005-Jan-18, 11:02 PM
I find this one highly suspect. A light that sees through lead, but can't quite see through a hamburger? He has already told everyone how to keep people from looking into a secure building, just have a bunch of people standing in front of it.

01101001
2005-Jan-19, 12:04 AM
I'm with the MIT folks:


"They said 'Troy, this is unbelievable.'"

Van Rijn
2005-Jan-19, 12:19 AM
What is the principle behind gamma rays making a wall invisible?

It is just like x-rays, but greater penetrating power. You'd need the detector system on the other side of the room. From:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/pubs/kpro/radiography/W37_02.shtml


The gamma rays from cobalt 60 have relatively great penetrating power and can be used, under some conditions, to radiograph sections of steel 9 inches thick, or the equivalent. Radiations from other radioactive materials have lower energies; for example, iridium 192 emits radiations roughly equivalent to the x-rays emitted by a conventional x-ray tube operating at about 600 kV.


Extremely dangerous if you aren't careful, of course, and I don't believe this guy has anything like that - it was just a joke. :wink: The article just doesn't add up ... buuut ... gamma ray radiography would be one way to look through walls if you didn't care about anything nearby. Obviously, very dense materials would be hard to see through, very low density materials would be hard to detect. And that (among other things) doesn't fit with what is said in the article.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-19, 12:30 AM
But gamma rays still need something to make the picture visible, right? it's not like they make the wall itself look invisible, so you could walk into it. I mean, X-rays don't make ME see my bones either.

Gullible Jones
2005-Jan-19, 12:37 AM
This is completely impossible. I second "hoax".

Van Rijn
2005-Jan-19, 12:50 AM
But gamma rays still need something to make the picture visible, right? it's not like they make the wall itself look invisible, so you could walk into it. I mean, X-rays don't make ME see my bones either.

As I said, you'd need a detector. You CAN see your own bones on a photo or a screen after it has been through an x-ray detector. Again: No, I don't think that is what is being done here. I don't think ANYTHING is being done here.

Fortis
2005-Jan-19, 03:10 AM
I would like to see evidence of that before I really believe it.

Also, how did he walk against a wall, I mean does the apparatus really make the wall itself seem invisible, or does it just do this on a screen? If it's on a screen, I can't see how he hurt himself running into the wall.

What's also strange is that the thing makes even lead completely invisible, but only the outer surface of his hand.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Apparently this mysterious "through the wall" imager is also blocked by the pigment on a car license plate. Actually, I think I could achieve this feat with the aid of a drill and an endoscope. ;)

What makes me really suspicious is that he claims that the images are really clear, but he doesn't show any images generated by it. There are pictures of him and the "device", but none showing what it is claimed to do. The article also gives the impression that he didn't even give a demo to the reporter. Ho hum.

mike alexander
2005-Jan-19, 04:29 AM
Not gamma rays or x-rays. can"t focus 'em with your eyes.

It sounds like 1950's Superman where the wall would get a circle where he was looking through it. So, either he is changing the properties of the wall to let light from the other side through, or...


Pardon for sounding like a grumpy old flump, but raspberry. Unless he's doing a good ol' leg pulling.

Van Rijn
2005-Jan-19, 06:33 AM
Not gamma rays or x-rays. can"t focus 'em with your eyes.

It sounds like 1950's Superman where the wall would get a circle where he was looking through it. So, either he is changing the properties of the wall to let light from the other side through, or...

Pardon for sounding like a grumpy old flump, but raspberry. Unless he's doing a good ol' leg pulling.

Of course, the device is nonsense. The fellow has a "death ray" that can image soft tissue as well as go through walls and metal. Surrre. However, do note that the article doesn't actually say you can see things DIRECTLY.

Some of the possible real world methods for imaging through a wall include teraherz wave systems, gamma ray radiography, microwave radar systems, IR systems, and ultrasonics. Each has limitations, often severe limitations, and this doesn't match the characteristics of any of them. If he actually had something, you either would hear a lot more about it, or nothing at all.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-19, 08:53 AM
However, do note that the article doesn't actually say you can see things DIRECTLY.

That's my whole point! If it ain't directly, how can he walk by accident into that "invisible" wall?

Has anyone information about what science thinks of his fire paste?
His suit seems to be real, but as said, that is rather straightforward.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-19, 09:40 AM
Nah!! I don't buy it. You could have a whole news crew there for a demo and be in the mainstream news without any effort if it were real.

Why would you have a photo of the machine and no reliable, independent confirmation?

"The French"? Which French? The government? Private investors? That alone says bunk.

Gmann
2005-Jan-19, 01:35 PM
The more I have thought about this thing, the more I feel compelled to sound the woo^2 alert. I find it curious that the "French" and the "Saudi's" are interested in this device, but the CIA, NSA, DOD, and a whole bunch of other 3 letter words don't seem to have expressed much interest. Either the CIA and their buddies already HAVE one, or the "French" and "Saudi's" are a little more gullible than I originally thought. I also have a problem with "black ops" people trying to sneak an 8 foot long machine (with associated generator set) into a secure area without being noticed so they can look behind a wall. Oh...I forgot...there are a bunch of people standing in front of it, so all they can see is veins and arteries and...guts. Puhleeeze :lol: This was too easy, he's going to have to do better than that.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-19, 01:37 PM
Still nobody who has further information on the fire paste? If it's as good as claimed on Discovery (...) why isn't it being used?

Swift
2005-Jan-19, 02:48 PM
What is the principle behind gamma rays making a wall invisible?

It is just like x-rays, but greater penetrating power. You'd need the detector system on the other side of the room. From:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/pubs/kpro/radiography/W37_02.shtml


The gamma rays from cobalt 60 have relatively great penetrating power and can be used, under some conditions, to radiograph sections of steel 9 inches thick, or the equivalent. Radiations from other radioactive materials have lower energies; for example, iridium 192 emits radiations roughly equivalent to the x-rays emitted by a conventional x-ray tube operating at about 600 kV.


Extremely dangerous if you aren't careful, of course, and I don't believe this guy has anything like that - it was just a joke. :wink: The article just doesn't add up ... buuut ... gamma ray radiography would be one way to look through walls if you didn't care about anything nearby. Obviously, very dense materials would be hard to see through, very low density materials would be hard to detect. And that (among other things) doesn't fit with what is said in the article.
The company I used to work for at one time did gamma ray radiography to look inside the pressure vessels that we used to grow crystals. We are talking about 3.5 inches of steel and the gamma rays went in one side and out the other. We used a 60Co source and x-ray film as our detector (we were "watching" the crystals grow). VERY DANGEROUS. I also doubt that this is what this fellow is doing, or he would have given someone a very serious dose by this point.

The only even slightly similar technology to this that I know of is something called Terahertz or T-wave technology. The terahertz (THz) region of the electromagnetic spectrum is loosely defined as from 0.1 to 10 THz (1012 cycles per second) or about 100 to 1000 microns wavelength. It does have some interesting properties, as some of the materials we are familiar with that are opaque in the visible are transparent or semi-transparent in the THz. One reference (http://www.rpi.edu/terahertz/). But this guy's stuff mostly sounds like nonsense.

captain swoop
2005-Jan-19, 03:42 PM
I know someone who does crack testing on pipes at the Oil refinery on Teesmouth. he uses a radioactive source in a matal box with a little sliding shutter to image the pipes and valves. Before he uses it he has to clear an area on the other side of the pipe from the box.

Irishman
2005-Jan-19, 07:37 PM
I'm pretty skeptical of the claims. Especially since there isn't any demo or pictures of the effect. However, certain of the criticisms are not well-reasoned.

Some of you are complaining about his being able to see through some things and not others. You have not allowed for the possibility of focusing the effect for depth. Maybe at a lower power setting he can see through one layer of tissue but not all the way through his hand, but a higher setting would allow him to see all the way through like he says he does with the wall.

Regarding the license plate and stuff on the far side of the wall, if the effect is caused by a projection of some sort, then it probably only effects the materials/items on which it directly falls. So perhaps a composite wall might only allow seeing through the first layer. Hmmm, oops, that would counter his description of seeing through his garage wall, wouldn't it?

He did state it had something to do with playing around with electromagnetism. Electromagnetism has a strong role in how we perceive objects as opaque or clear, such as glass.

Again, I'm not ready to go all out on this one. I haven't heard any more about his "fire paste", either.

Whether is is a hoax, a fraud, an exaggeration, or true I'm not ready to commit.

Wolverine
2005-Jan-19, 08:25 PM
Still nobody who has further information on the fire paste? If it's as good as claimed on Discovery (...) why isn't it being used?

Last I'd seen, it was still being tested...

sarongsong
2005-Jan-23, 07:17 AM
"I wrote the story about Troy which has been receiving such ridicule..."
Phil Novak (http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tuber/1935/#54753)
This (http://www.fedvendor.com/vendor_directory/view.htm?companyid=PRE00000000001241022) is as close to RealTronics as I could get---their website (http://www.realtronics.com/) seems inaccessible to Opera or Firefox.

Fortis
2005-Jan-23, 06:05 PM
For some reason I can't help but think about the plot of the film "Static".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090069/plotsummary

sarongsong
2005-Feb-11, 05:12 AM
Update (http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1132) from reporter Phil Novak:
"...Troy tells me he will be giving a partial demonstration of the device next month to show its harmful effects, but due to an agreement he has with the French he's not allowed to demonstrate its key capabilities..." (2/3 down the page---on the way down, check out the scientists' deft verbal swordplay; "...If you REALLY want to know how the "Angel Light" machine weighs in the minds of REAL physicists -- not ones laden with frontal lobe atrophy -- ask the following...")

Sammy
2005-Feb-11, 05:48 AM
Update (http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1132) from reporter Phil Novak:
"...Troy tells me he will be giving a partial demonstration of the device next month to show its harmful effects, but due to an agreement he has with the French he's not allowed to demonstrate its key capabilities..." (2/3 down the page---on the way down, check out the scientists' deft verbal swordplay; "...If you REALLY want to know how the "Angel Light" machine weighs in the minds of REAL physicists -- not ones laden with frontal lobe atrophy -- ask the following...")(Emphasis added)

CLASSIC scammer tactic!

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-11, 06:30 AM
Scammer? Well, certainly a lot of pseudoscientists use lingo like that. But we have no evidence of fraud here.

Is it a hoax? I'd bet that way right now, but it doesn't matter. The burden of proof is on him. It's impossible for us to investigate a claim only through a newspaper report about it (remember, this is being filtered through the writer, which can color a story), so we need more evidence. And in this case it's pretty simple.

Show people. Film it, with an independent crew. Ask James Randi to come out, and Joe Nickell. They're used to investigating such things. I'd be curious to see what happens, either way.

Gmann
2005-Feb-11, 01:57 PM
I know someone who does crack testing on pipes

The claims he makes about this machine sounds more like this guy does testing on crack pipes.

That might be a little harsh, but I don't believe a word of it. He is going to have to prove this thing beyond a shadow of a doubt before I change my mind. The whole thing just doesn't make sense, plain and simple.

sarongsong
2005-May-14, 09:00 AM
May 11, 2005 update (http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c=8267):
"... the North Bay inventor said he has reconfigured his see-through-walls Angel Light and used it to reverse Parkinson's disease symptoms in one patient, shrink and eliminate breast cysts in another, reduce the size of cancer tumours in lab mice, regenerate plant growth, and hasten seed germination...Hurtubise has also offered $20,000 to anyone who can prove God Light or any other of his innovations are fraudulent or don't work..."But if you can't prove them to be fraudulent, which you can't, you're going to give me 20 grand. Let's see where your mouth is now."..."

Sammy
2005-May-14, 04:49 PM
This guy has now proven that his claims are pure B.S.

Curing two radically different diseases, with different underlying biology, just doesn't make sense in the non-magic world.

As for his "prize" offer, I'm sure that he is judge, jury, and executioner, for determining if it works or not. I don't anticipate any takers--which he will cite as "proof" that he is right.

Textbook case of quackery/scammer/crank

Gmann
2005-May-15, 12:27 PM
Does this mean that the French have allowed him to share it's secrets? This one has "Male Bovine Digestive Biomass" written all over it. I would bet that the Amazing randi has 20G laying around that he would be willing to bet, assuming that he would consider it worth his time. My guess is that he probably wouldn't. This clown has aready stated that he cannot lose, so the game is stacked either way.

Archer17
2005-May-15, 12:40 PM
Agreed. As long as there's gullible people, there's those like this character with his 21st century version of snake-oil.

Swift
2005-May-16, 09:47 PM
I was willing to give it a very small percent chance that there was something to his technology to see through things (see my comments above about Terahertz technology), but now it is apparent that this is just nonsense. Sammy has it exactly right.

sarongsong
2005-May-16, 10:02 PM
Well, the google ad selection process for this page certainly is in a tizzy:
"Geiger Counters - Direct from manufacturer...
Bruker Optics - World's first commercial Terahertz spectrometer...
Terrahertz Camera - Beam Profile Your THZ Laser...
Thermo Radiation Systems - Review Detectors, Monitors..." :lol: