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ToSeek
2005-Jan-24, 05:36 PM
53-keys New Standard Keyboard (http://www.physorg.com/news2786.html)


After 130 years of typing the same way the keyboard has finally grown up. New Standard Keyboards of Santa Maria, California announced "alphabetical" keyboard that offers user-friendly benefits and quick data entry for any level user. New Standard Keyboards debuted a patented USB-interface computer keyboard at CES 2005. This keyboard has just 53-keys and offers many advances over QWERTY and DVORAK designs.

Eroica
2005-Jan-24, 05:40 PM
Dagnammit! Just when I had finally mastered the art of touch-typing on a QWERTY! ](*,)

Nicolas
2005-Jan-24, 06:14 PM
Some thoughts:

-I just mastered typing both QWERTY and AZERTY :(
-My first PC (386) had colour coded keys already. Of course, these keys were still coded in grey shades, but it's many years ago.
-I HOPE they have lots of symbols as secondary and tertiary key functions on that keyboard. I hate the QWERTY keyboards at university and their lack of symbols wrt the AZERTY one I have at home (and features as much buttons)
-70$ ain't that competitive...

Cougar
2005-Jan-24, 07:20 PM
Steven Jay Gould used the QWERTY keyboard as an excellent example of an evolutionary "frozen accident." By far it is not the optimal solution, but due to a rather accidental circumstance, this is the keyboard that has become the standard. As history shows, in this particular case, it is darn hard to change from this standard to something new. In biological evolution, creatures generally improve their fitness in small, incremental steps, but there are traits or features that are frozen accidents like the qwerty keyboard - they're not optimal and they're not positioned to imrpove incrementally. Unfortunately I can't think of any biological examples at the moment. :oops: It's easier to find examples in the evolution of technology....

electromagneticpulse
2005-Jan-24, 07:24 PM
I like QWERTY, i can type fast on a QWERTY keyboard. Except ofcourse typing QWERTY as it screws up my finger placement. I've mastered typing over my life and it's what i have grown up with, can't they just leave the damn thing alone.

Inefficient as possible? Well it lets me read as i type so i dont mess it all up. There has been so many times when i have shifted my hands over one letter and typed the whole thing in a 1 key shift. With a new keyboard type i'll be using the point and push style that my grandmother uses.

Now speaking as a gamer, CAN I KILL THE DESIGNER?!!!! :evil:
Look at it, the UDLR keys are in the MIDDLE!


The keys are arranged alphabetically
Who types like that. Come on, who. No really who?

If anyone gives me one of those keyboards, it's going to be their USB death. I've boycotted the keyboards and i will only use QWERTY. It has no num pad either. Which for what i do i need because i type long strings of numbers and with the number pad it's easy.

Okay i'm taking a break i feel like breaking something.

Dear God who?????

SeanF
2005-Jan-24, 07:35 PM
Implementing a new keyboard "standard" will be difficult - but it'd be a lot easier now than it would've been thirty years ago!

TimH
2005-Jan-24, 08:06 PM
I wonder if there will be a version that doesn't look like it was made by Fischer-Price.

Doodler
2005-Jan-24, 08:10 PM
I know QWERTY well enough that when I was home convalescing last November with flash burned retinas, I was still able to type a full multipage post on a BBS website with my eyes closed with only two words hosed from misplaced fingers.

Nergal
2005-Jan-24, 08:13 PM
Steven Jay Gould used the QWERTY keyboard as an excellent example of an evolutionary "frozen ." By far it is not the optimal solution, but due to a rather al circumstance, this is the keyboard that has become the standard.
The standard QWERTY keyboard IS an evolutionary development. It was specifically designed to address a problem.

In the days of manual typewriters with Dvorak keyboards, skilled typists (sp?) could move so fast they would jam the mechanical typerwriter mechanisms. The QWERTY keyboard arrangement was designed to slow typists down to a pace the mechanisms could handle.

It's been in use so long now that it has become the standard...even though the need for it's peculiar key placement has long since disappeared.

Doodler
2005-Jan-24, 08:15 PM
As for that monstrosity. What the heck good are color keys to someone who types without looking down? Color coding makes it look like WinXP's default desktop, written for a moron who grew up and never gave up on Fischer Price toys.

kucharek
2005-Jan-24, 08:20 PM
Fischer Price toys.

:D My first thought when I saw the photo of the keyboard.

"New", "better" keyboards are coming every 10 years and vanish into oblivion. As long as nobody is coming up with something that lets you type 500 words/min with 5 minutes of training, I don't see a chance we will get rid of what we have. Too widespread, too standard.

Glom
2005-Jan-24, 08:31 PM
Yeah, I really don't get it. I've had no problem using QWERTY. Regardless of what historical idiosynchrasies led to its creation, I fail to see what changing the layout has to offer with respect to improving efficiency.

electromagneticpulse
2005-Jan-24, 08:44 PM
I know QWERTY well enough that when I was home convalescing last November with flash burned retinas, I was still able to type a full multipage post on a BBS website with my eyes closed with only two words hosed from misplaced fingers.

As part of my induction for my Equal Ops segment of my course in college half the class had to play blind people. Meaning 2 hours of using a blindfold for everything. Having to go find a book was next to impossible but using the computers was easy. My helper monkey just had to move my hands sometimes when i was typing words wrong.

I think the only time i look at my keyboard on a normal day is to push the power button on it. I know where every other key is when i use it, i know where the power/sleep/standby buttons are because i avoid pressing them. :D

I'm glad to say the urge to kill someone who gives me one has subsided. I can't say if i meet the designer i wont give him a beating with his Fischer price toy :D

Ut
2005-Jan-24, 08:56 PM
Errr... I'm always looking for things with MORE buttons. I'm working with a Logitech MX500 and a MS Wireless Comfort keyboard. That's 8 buttons on the mouse, and ~120 on the keyboard. And I type pleanty fine on the QWERTY layout. I already have a difficult time making sure my mind can keep up with my fingers as it is. If me brain is me limiting speed factor, no amount of effort put into a new key layout is going ot speed me up.

Cougar
2005-Jan-24, 10:17 PM
I imagine that before any other system replaces the qwerty keyboard, we'll have fully functioning voice recognition where you'll just SAY the word and it'll be typed FOR YOU, doing away with keyboards altogether. (Yep, just like in Star Trek.)

Of course, with so many homonyms ("two" or "to" or "too"?) in the English language, the recognition software will have to be pretty smart so it can determine which word you mean just from the context.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Jan-24, 10:23 PM
Okay i'm taking a break i feel like breaking something.

EMP, relax! it's only a keyboard! No one is forcing you to use it! :D

frenat
2005-Jan-24, 10:23 PM
It may help some people that have avoided computers because of the layout of the keyboard as the article says but then they'll never be able to use any other computer. It won't catch on with anybody who uses a normal qwerty keyboard. I'll be blunt, as more older people die, and more younger people take their place, there will be less and less people this keyboard may help. This is a bad idea.

electromagneticpulse
2005-Jan-24, 10:48 PM
Okay i'm taking a break i feel like breaking something.

EMP, relax! it's only a keyboard! No one is forcing you to use it! :D

My college will buy them, i bet any money soon they will have keyboards like that. They spent loads of money on touch screen monitors... that don't work. They got a password protection system and now i can't get into my user on the college computers.

So i guess i wont get to use them as i'll never get on the computers :roll:

Nicolas
2005-Jan-24, 10:48 PM
I imagine that before any other system replaces the qwerty keyboard, we'll have fully functioning voice recognition where you'll just SAY the word and it'll be typed FOR YOU, doing away with keyboards altogether. (Yep, just like in Star Trek.)


Just like in Star Trek!...or just like on my pc about 5 years ago. Remember Lernout&Hauspie (before tehy went to jail :))? That software actually started to work quite well after 3 hours of training (how long does it take to learn to type?) though it was processor intensive. And background noise was a problem. typing and music: no-go.

electromagneticpulse
2005-Jan-24, 10:51 PM
I imagine that before any other system replaces the qwerty keyboard, we'll have fully functioning voice recognition where you'll just SAY the word and it'll be typed FOR YOU, doing away with keyboards altogether. (Yep, just like in Star Trek.)

Of course, with so many homonyms ("two" or "to" or "too"?) in the English language, the recognition software will have to be pretty smart so it can determine which word you mean just from the context.

Oh we have programs that can do that already. It just gets everything wrong :D

Makgraf
2005-Jan-24, 11:12 PM
This is an ugly monstrosity that will go the way of the New Coke. If you're going to spend time switching from QWERTY (BTW, someone once told me that QWERTY was set up so you could spell "TYPEWRITER" using only letters from the top row) and learning a new keyboard then why not use DVORAK?

The pronoucment that the keyboard had "grown up" juxtaposed with a picture of something out Fischer-Price was glaring ironic.

Ut
2005-Jan-24, 11:40 PM
I've been reading some snarky comments from the peanut gallery, and some things have been brought to my attention.

A) The function keys have been moved to the bottom of the keyboard. Right where most keyboards worth their salt have wrist rests. New Standard Keyboards claims that their key layout is to help promote proper typing technique, but they don't include one of the biggest fighters of carpal tunnel that we have to date, nor do they leave enough room for you to attach your own.

B) The space bar has been reduced to a single button. Feel the ease of use!

C) It's priced at $70 US. I spent $70 US on a new wireless, optical keyboard/mouse set this month. I got more bells and whistles than the Good Humour van. For the same price, you can soon get yourself a keyboard designed to promote search-and-peck typing.

The elderly are more than capable of learning to type using the keyboard standards that already exist. This thing is so dumbed down, it's almost insulting.

lti
2005-Jan-25, 12:26 AM
In the days of manual typewriters with Dvorak keyboards, skilled typists (sp?) could move so fast they would jam the mechanical typerwriter mechanisms. The QWERTY keyboard arrangement was designed to slow typists down to a pace the mechanisms could handle.

QWERTY keyboards were actually faster to use, as the placement of the keys wouldnt physically jam the typewriter. They did not slow down typists at all. IN fact one of the reasons QWERTY became industry standard is that it beat other layouts in speed tests. Today with electronic keyboards, DVORAK is arguably a better layout, but to change the standard used by billions of people worldwide for the last hundred years is quite ridiculous.

SAMU
2005-Jan-25, 12:36 AM
I invented a keyboard design myself. 80% of all letters are typed by the right hand. The reason this may be important can be illustrated by simplifying typing to just two letters. Pick any two letters and type them with alternating hands then try it with any two letters typed with just two fingers on one hand. Which is faster and with fewer mistakes? That is the standard of typing efficiency.

Also the arrangement of letters has the 5 most common 3 letter combinations arranged so that they can be typed with a pinky to index "drumming" of the fingers on the keys to create. That is 10% of all typing and is done in as little as 1/10 second per 3 letter combination. So for 10% of your typing you can get 600 wpm.

I designed it by first databasing 100,000 letter keystrokes (not including spaces or punctuation) from essays from around the internet (yes even some essays from this site) to find the usage distribution of letters as people actually use them. Then I databased 33,000 3 letter combinations from those essays to find the most commonly used 3 letter combinations.

I did not mention two letter combinations because they are for the most part part of the 3 letter combinations. I didn't use 4 letter combinations because common 4 letter combinations are so rarely used compared to 3 letter combinations that it is not worth sacrificing a 3 letter arrangement for a 4 letter arrangement.

I know that I got a large enough database sample size to have a valid usage distribution because by graphing the statistics I got from the databases I got a smooth bell curve distribution which is how you tell that you've got a valid statistical sample.

There's a program you can use to reset the keys on your keyboard to conform to anything you may wish.

If there is any interest I'll post the graphic illustration on some webspace I have. It's a pretty cool graphic, color coded and has all the base data and graphic comparisons to the qwerty design and the Dvorak design The deficiencies of both become quite apparent in the graphic.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-25, 12:47 AM
eoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoe (2 hands test, very fast)
ererererererererererererererer (1 hand, slower)

Remarks:

1) thank you for thinking about left handed people... :)
2)When typing full sentences, using 2 fingers one hand is "easier" because when using 2 hands I have to force myself not to use more than two fingers. That's the only reason why it is slower for me.
3)I'm good at both due to playing synths and using msn a lot (k)(k)(k)(k)(k)(k)(k) you know :D :D Using two hands is the fastest way for me because I am really trained into rapid alternating playing. Upto medium beat, I play single handed, but the really fast stuff I play using both hands.
On reflection: there are certain fst beats that I play using one hand. It just depends how I learned them myself.

4)If you type 80% of the letters with your right, maybe put the numpad on the left, it saves a lot of hand moving I guess

Moose
2005-Jan-25, 12:55 AM
If there is any interest I'll post the graphic illustration on some webspace I have. It's a pretty cool graphic, color coded and has all the base data and graphic comparisons to the qwerty design and the Dvorak design The deficiencies of both become quite apparent in the graphic.

I'd love to see it, if only for curiosity's sake. I'm a bit too used to split-QWERTY to have any real desire to relearn how to type, and my typing speed just about matches my composition speed anyway.

Kebsis
2005-Jan-25, 02:36 AM
I'm an expert typist on QWERTY. This comes from hours spent playing Counterstrike and Unreal Tournament in the dark when I was younger. Typing out a two sentance long insult when you can't take your eyes off the screen (and couldn't see the keys anyway if you did) in under a second will certainly sharpen ones skills.