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Doodler
2005-Jan-25, 08:35 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/01/24/italy.text.reut/index.html

Maybe letting a few of them cripple their hands would do them a world of good? Whatever happened to the days when a cellphone dialed numbers and connected people by voice?

kids...

Candy
2005-Jan-25, 09:05 PM
MayB U shd stop B4 its 2 L8.
Does this message look familiar? :-k

Kristophe
2005-Jan-25, 11:17 PM
Wow, it's like I'm on IRC all over again...

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Jan-26, 12:08 AM
Pfft. Text messaging? Useless. Want to communicate? IT'S A PHONE, PEOPLE!

I mean, really...

paulie jay
2005-Jan-26, 01:08 AM
Pfft. Text messaging? Useless. Want to communicate? IT'S A PHONE, PEOPLE!

Frankly, I think a lot of people (not necessarily me) perversely like the convenience of communicating without actually having to interact with somebody. Call it "progressive anti-socialism". Don't want to talk with someone? Just leave a statement!

One day we will all live in self contained pods with virtual friends and all this... "people" stuff won't be necessary. :lol: :wink: :lol:


(oops, spelling edit)

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Jan-26, 01:11 AM
What a world we live in...


:)

Normandy6644
2005-Jan-26, 01:24 AM
I do it from time to time, but man, never so much to where it cripples my fingers!

pmcolt
2005-Jan-26, 04:29 AM
Text messages are nice in some ways. They're short, unlike phone conversations with some of my friends, who telephone for the incomprehensible reason of "just wanting to talk". They provide a textual record of a conversation (my cell phone's memory now seemingly exceeds my brain's. Though that could be a side effect of too much internet). Some of my relatives in the Philippines text message us because it's a lot cheaper than using a voice channel.

That said; my cell phone is a phone. As much as I dislike talking on the phone, if I need to talk to someone, that's what I do. As far as I'm concerned, if it's trivial enough to say by text message, it's trivial enough to wait till later.

sarongsong
2005-Jan-26, 07:05 AM
But haven't they always been told they should be seen and not heard? [-X

beskeptical
2005-Jan-26, 08:35 AM
For my son and his friends sometimes it's to sneak calls to each other in school. He texted away when he first got the phone but it wore off fast. I can't see why the fad would last very long but the folks who do it often get pretty fast at it.

Speaking of which, I'm amazed my son types faster than 50 words/min with out ever having learned to type the standard way. He does use all fingers and doesn't look at the key board, but he doesn't start on the home keys or anything like that.

I've gotten pretty fast but I still look at the keyboard.

BTW, I don't think tendinitis cripples anyone. And I noticed the article said ONE kid went to ONE doctor. Hardly an epidemic.
A 13-year-old girl in the northern Italian city of Savona needed treatment from an orthopaedic specialist after typing at least 100 short message services (SMSs) a day.

The fact the study found kids 'addicted' to cell phones doesn't mean they all have tendinitis.
According to a recent study conducted for children's rights group Telefono Azzurro, some 37 percent of Italian children are "cell phone addicts."

But this comment takes the cake:
Irritability and mood swings were other symptoms linked to very frequent cell phone use among the young. Sure, and we all know kids that age never have irritability and mood swings so it has to be the phones. :roll: Somehow I find this study suspect and I haven't even read it.

beskeptical
2005-Jan-26, 08:38 AM
... One day we will all live in self contained pods with virtual friends and all this... "people" stuff won't be necessary. :lol: :wink: :lol:You mean you have real friends? :wink:

Argos
2005-Jan-26, 11:40 AM
Pfft. Text messaging? Useless. Want to communicate? IT'S A PHONE, PEOPLE!

I mean, really...

Text is alright when you just want to send a brief remark and not be hanging on for hours in a futile conversation. And they are cheaper than phoning.

Johnno
2005-Jan-26, 12:45 PM
Text is alright when you just want to send a brief remark and not be hanging on for hours in a futile conversation. And they are cheaper than phoning.

Yes, because who would be rude enough to call someone, say "I'm in a hurry, but could you/remember that tonight/when is/...okay thanks, gotta run, talk to you later, bye".

Someone can't force you to stay on the phone and talk to them for hours. All you have to do is say you have other things to do. If you won't mind talking, but don't want to get a fat phone bill, have them call you. Make up some excuse about how you have to do something, and ask them to call you up in a bit. Then they'll be paying. If they get suspicious about having to call you, tell em you'll call em when you're done, but then don't. And make up some excuse about being busy with other things.

If you don't want to make up excuses (lie) just be honest, tell them you don't want to talk to them because you don't have anything to say, and that whatever they have to say isn't interesting enough to spend hours listening to when you could be playing video games or whatever. ;)

Argos
2005-Jan-26, 12:56 PM
Someone can't force you to stay on the phone and talk to them for hours.

Except for your wife, or boss. :)

Johnno
2005-Jan-26, 02:01 PM
Except for your wife, or boss.

If you're short on money, and that's why you don't want to spend a lot of time on the phone, have a chat with your wife about it. If she doesn't understand, trade her in for a more rational model. If she just wants to chat tell her the truth, you don't feel like talking, too busy, or whatever. Isn't every relationship based on honesty? ;)

If it's the boss, and you're at home, and it's not urgent, tell him/her you can talk more at work next day you're in. My suggestion about an excuse applies here as well.

But I guess in the end you'll have to take into consideration that you may be missing out on social things with certain people who're chatty on the phone, might alienate them, or whatever. But hey, who cares, as Douglas Adams wrote, anytime a person closes their mouth their brain has to start working. Which is why some people talk so much.

Manekineko
2005-Jan-26, 02:18 PM
Well, for me sms messages are useful for several things:
1. When it is not possible to reach the person at that moment because he or she is unable/unwilling to answer the phone right then...
2. When I'm travelling abroad, it is often cheaper to send a quick message back home, than to phone.
3. When there is some little detail I need to communicate, but it is not important enough for a call.

Personally, I find messages less intrusive then phone-calls, and more suitable for some sorts of communication. That said, I'm not a big fan of mobile phones in general...

Argos
2005-Jan-26, 02:19 PM
Johnno, though I appreciate your advice, I donīt have problems with wives or bosses. A remark: in certain cultures people are rather indirect and cordial. Donīt try being excessively honest and straightforward dismissing a phone call, unless you donīt mind being a social outcast. Text is better, faster and cheaper, and I use it to avoid social misunderstandings. :wink:

Johnno
2005-Jan-26, 02:53 PM
Johnno, though I appreciate your advice, I donīt have problems with wives or bosses.

:o


A remark: in certain cultures people are rather indirect and cordial. Donīt try to being excessively honest and straightforward dismissing a phone call, unless you donīt mind being a social outcast.

Gladly I live in scandinavia where people are pretty straightfoward. I'm just terrible at small talk in general, and I'm already a social outcast thank you very much :P

As for cheaper, it really depends. I'm used to text messages costing 1SKR and phone conversations cost half of that to start, and then depending on your cell phone service, between 1 and 5 times as much per minute. Personally when calling friends/family I usually manage to keep the conversation under 30 seconds :D
So, you don't save that much if you're just delivering a 20 word text message, or saying it on the phone.

Now consider someone replying to your text message with a question, you have to reply, and before you know it you've sent 5 messages, spending a lot of time typing them. Would be faster, cheaper and easier to just do it over the phone.

But bottom line is, everyone has to figure out how they prefer to do it, either you like it and use it, or you just call.

Doodler
2005-Jan-26, 02:59 PM
From what I'm reading on this, the texting thing is mostly focused in Europe. Not saying there aren't people who do it in the States, but it doesn't appear to be as pervasive.

Johnno
2005-Jan-26, 03:01 PM
From what I'm reading on this, the texting thing is mostly focused in Europe.

Not Japan? :D

Doodler
2005-Jan-26, 04:38 PM
From what I'm reading on this, the texting thing is mostly focused in Europe.

Not Japan? :D

Last I heard from Asia, the big thing was the 3G vidphones. With 7-10 thousand characters in conversational Japanese, I pity anyone who text messages on a regular basis.

Bawheid
2005-Jan-26, 04:47 PM
From what I'm reading on this, the texting thing is mostly focused in Europe. Not saying there aren't people who do it in the States, but it doesn't appear to be as pervasive.

Texting is huge in the UK, most networks have free or very cheap texts. A lot of teenagers use them since the know they will pay a flat rate per month regardless of how many they send.

Doodler
2005-Jan-26, 04:55 PM
From what I'm reading on this, the texting thing is mostly focused in Europe. Not saying there aren't people who do it in the States, but it doesn't appear to be as pervasive.

Texting is huge in the UK, most networks have free or very cheap texts. A lot of teenagers use them since the know they will pay a flat rate per month regardless of how many they send.

Talk about double edged swords. I love the idea of flat rates, but then, given unlimited use, some people will go to the extreme.

Candy
2005-Jan-26, 05:49 PM
But haven't they always been told they should be seen and not heard? [-X
Agreed. :D

beskeptical
2005-Jan-26, 06:46 PM
Last I heard from Asia, the big thing was the 3G vidphones. With 7-10 thousand characters in conversational Japanese, I pity anyone who text messages on a regular basis.

You have given somewhat 'bad' info about Japanese text messaging. Here's a correction.

Bad Culture (bad as in BA) correction (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000566.html)


Cell-phone text messages are sent and displayed in standard Japanese orthography -- that is, kanji (Chinese logographic characters), two kinds of kana (moraic characters often referred to as a "syllabary"), and romaji (the familiar latin alphabet). Text entry is via kana, using the simple principle that the kana can be arranged in a 5x10 table, so that pressing the "1" key four times means the 4th kana in the first column, namely "e"; or pressing the "4" key once means the 1st kana in the fourth column, namely "ta" (or something like that...). There is an "enter" key that sometimes needs to be pressed between characters and sometimes doesn't, and there is some sort of auto-complete functionality, which (I think) varies among entry software variants.

Though this hardly seems like a very efficient use of keystrokes, people get to be pretty good at it. The folks at the lunch table, after some discussion and experimentation, estimated that practiced users achieve about 15 wpm, and some meiru-atheletes may do substantially better. I was told that a well-known violin soloist, Senju Mariko, is also a novelist, and does her writing by cell phone, because this enables her to integrate her writing into her busy daily life.

The opinion of all the Japanese at the lunch table (three male, one female) was that women are faster at cell-phone meiru than men, and also use it more.

As for why Japanese people in general use cell phone meiru so much, there was agreement that it is considered rude to talk on the phone (cell or otherwise) in the hearing of others, and that talking on a cell phone in a public place would be especially impolite.

Actually, looking at this, it answers my question about why the fad continues there.

(Edited typo)

Doodler
2005-Jan-26, 07:47 PM
Last I heard from Asia, the big thing was the 3G vidphones. With 7-10 thousand characters in conversational Japanese, I pity anyone who text messages on a regular basis.

You have given somewhat 'bad' info about Japanese test messaging. Here's a correction.

Bad Culture (bad as in BA) correction (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000566.html)


Cell-phone text messages are sent and displayed in standard Japanese orthography -- that is, kanji (Chinese logographic characters), two kinds of kana (moraic characters often referred to as a "syllabary"), and romaji (the familiar latin alphabet). Text entry is via kana, using the simple principle that the kana can be arranged in a 5x10 table, so that pressing the "1" key four times means the 4th kana in the first column, namely "e"; or pressing the "4" key once means the 1st kana in the fourth column, namely "ta" (or something like that...). There is an "enter" key that sometimes needs to be pressed between characters and sometimes doesn't, and there is some sort of auto-complete functionality, which (I think) varies among entry software variants.

Though this hardly seems like a very efficient use of keystrokes, people get to be pretty good at it. The folks at the lunch table, after some discussion and experimentation, estimated that practiced users achieve about 15 wpm, and some meiru-atheletes may do substantially better. I was told that a well-known violin soloist, Senju Mariko, is also a novelist, and does her writing by cell phone, because this enables her to integrate her writing into her busy daily life.

The opinion of all the Japanese at the lunch table (three male, one female) was that women are faster at cell-phone meiru than men, and also use it more.

As for why Japanese people in general use cell phone meiru so much, there was agreement that it is considered rude to talk on the phone (cell or otherwise) in the hearing of others, and that talking on a cell phone in a public place would be especially impolite.

Actually, looking at this, it answers my question about why the fad continues there.

Impressive organization. Still a lot of characters per key. If I'm reading this right, the kana symbols are a syllabic arrangement, something like Pharonic Egyptian?

ktesibios
2005-Jan-26, 08:38 PM
Impressive organization. Still a lot of characters per key. If I'm reading this right, the kana symbols are a syllabic arrangement, something like Pharonic Egyptian?

The kana symbols represent either one of the five vowel sounds (a,i,u,e,o) or a consonant-vowel combination e.g. ka, ki, ku, ke, ko.

Here's a chart of the hiragana syllabary:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2047.html

And one for katakana:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2048.html

IIRC, with the modification, the number of possible syllables is 63. Every word in the Japanese language can be represented with combinations of these 63 phonemes.

It's more compicated in ancient Egyptian. A hieroglyph can represent a single consonant (uniliterals, of which there are 22), two consonants or three consonants. The Egyptian writing system didn't record vowel sounds at all. There are two uniliterals which are usually transliterated (in Roman characters) as a, but they actually represent the glottal stop and the gutteral, akin to the Hebrew aleph and ayin. These, along with the "i" symbol, are called "weak consonants" and are represented in the standard transliteration font by characters borrowed from handwritten Hebrew.

A triliteral could represent two syllables e.g. "nfr" (good or beautiful) or "nDm" (sweet). Because we don't have the vowels we don't know for certain just how they were pronounced- "nfr" could have been "nefer", "nafer", "nofre" etc. The convention for reading aloud is to insert an "e" where necessary, hence "nefer" and "nedjem".

I saw a scene in one of the recent "Mummy" movies where an intrepid archaeologist is desperately reciting an Egyptian incantation to ward off an attack by sword-wielding CGI ghoulies. This gave me a giggle, because what should have happened would have been something like

GHOULIE 1: What he say?
GHOULIE 2: I think he said he wants a platter of well-done earmuffs with limestone on the side.
GHOULIE 1: These ******'s are crazy. Let's kill 'em.

Doodler
2005-Jan-26, 09:02 PM
Thank you for correcting me on that. Sorry it took so long to respond, but I actually was drinking a Pepsi when I caught that last couple lines.

:LOL:

ktesibios
2005-Jan-26, 09:03 PM
I forgot to mention- in the mid-90s the company I worked for was involved in producing music files for a General MIDI-based karaoke machine that a Japanese electronics manufacturer was developing.

The development system they sent us included a couple of NEC PCs, which ran a Japanese-language version of DOS. These computers supported kanji display by dint of some extra motherboard ROMS and even allowed user input in kanji, although selecting the character you wanted was kind of tedious.

Our crew of MIDIots will probably never forget the kanji for "Abort, Retry, Fail?". :wink:

paulie jay
2005-Jan-27, 05:16 AM
... One day we will all live in self contained pods with virtual friends and all this... "people" stuff won't be necessary. :lol: :wink: :lol:You mean you have real friends? :wink:
Oh yeah, keep them nice and safe in this here chest freezer... 8)

beskeptical
2005-Jan-27, 06:52 AM
Impressive organization. Still a lot of characters per key. If I'm reading this right, the kana symbols are a syllabic arrangement, something like Pharonic Egyptian?

The kana symbols represent either one of the five vowel sounds (a,i,u,e,o) or a consonant-vowel combination e.g. ka, ki, ku, ke, ko.

Here's a chart of the hiragana syllabary:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2047.html

And one for katakana:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2048.html

IIRC, with the modification, the number of possible syllables is 63. Every word in the Japanese language can be represented with combinations of these 63 phonemes.

.....When we went to Japan, my son could actually read signs and labels on a lot of things despite being shy and unable to really converse much with people.

No one had a clue when I tried to find Tylenol or acetaminophen. But we found it when he sounded out the name on the pain med the pharmacist handed us. \:D/ [proud Mom smilie]