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Bawheid
2005-Jan-27, 01:11 PM
For those that don't know, the Hour record is one of the Blue Riband records in cycling. A lot of people talk of trying it, few actually try and even fewer break it.

Armstrong (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/jan05/jan27news)is talking of an attempt this year, but hasn't said when. Looks like there is a lot of money behind it since they suggest they will build a velodrome specially for it.

My uninformed opinion is that he will miss Le Tour and try this in August.

Thumper
2005-Jan-27, 01:43 PM
Interesting. He is a very focused trainer. He picks the races he wants to win and trains only for those. I couldn't hit your link 'cause net nanny blocked me. Who currently has the hour record?

Fram
2005-Jan-27, 01:45 PM
I think Chris Boardman, but I haven't checked. I'll come back to you.
Armstrong is one of the few riders at the moment who has the potential to break it.

Hour record info (http://www.speed101.com/now/fastest_0717_4.htm). It goes to show what a great rider Eddy Merckx was...

Bawheid
2005-Jan-27, 01:53 PM
Interesting. He is a very focused trainer. He picks the races he wants to win and trains only for those. I couldn't hit your link 'cause net nanny blocked me. Who currently has the hour record?

Curious, my link is to a harmless cycling site. www.cyclingnews.com If you can get it to open it explains the advantages and disadvantages of riding at altitude.

Boardman (at sea level) beat Merckx's (altitude) record by 10 metres. Although their bikes were similar, Boardman's was a lot smoother.

Fram
2005-Jan-27, 01:55 PM
But Merckx rode in open air, I believe...
I didn't mean to belittle Boardman in any way, I just wanted to point out Merckx' achievement. But Boardman has the record and deserves it, and the fact that not many people try to beat it shows the toughness of that task.

Bawheid
2005-Jan-27, 02:02 PM
Fram, I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. Merckx is the greatest ever, and set a record so good that few people even attempted to break it. Boardman was always a great pursuit rider who only just broke the record despite some advantages.

Now if you go badmouthing Graeme Obree we might fall out. :D

I was interested that they mention Armstrong might try to break both records. (There is one in a "classic" cycling position, and one in a more modern aerodynamic position).

Fram
2005-Jan-27, 02:19 PM
Ah, Graeme Obree, the kind of excentric Brit the world could use some more of =D>

Thumper
2005-Jan-27, 02:31 PM
Curious, my link is to a harmless cycling site. www.cyclingnews.com If you can get it to open it explains the advantages and disadvantages of riding at altitude.

Sports sites are commonly banned. Some sneak through. I'll check it out at home. As a part time cyclist and triathlete, I imagine that the hour record attempt must be about the most grueling (one day) thing on two wheels. "All you have to do is go anaerobic for 60 straight minutes." 8-[

Bawheid
2005-Jan-27, 02:37 PM
Curious, my link is to a harmless cycling site. www.cyclingnews.com If you can get it to open it explains the advantages and disadvantages of riding at altitude.

Sports sites are commonly banned. Some sneak through. I'll check it out at home. As a part time cyclist and triathlete, I imagine that the hour record attempt must be about the most grueling (one day) thing on two wheels. "All you have to do is go anaerobic for 60 straight minutes." 8-[

Nicely put. Some would argue Paris - Roubaix is tougher, but for the Hour there is only one guy, a track and a clock. Armstrong has the dedication that if he sets his mind to do it he has a realistic chance. The suggestion is that he will do this in the States, either in Utah or Colorado.

Thumper
2005-Jan-28, 11:46 AM
However, if Armstrong wants to be on a level playing field then he should use the Manchester velodrome, the site of both the current "absolute" record of 49.441 km and the "best hour" record of 56.375 km. This is the site that Chris Boardman broke the previous records, so let Armstrong test his abilities mano a mano on an obviously very fast track.

From a letter in the cycling news site. What is the difference between the "absolute" hour record and the "best" hour record? There's quite a difference in length there.

Fram
2005-Jan-28, 11:55 AM
Best hour is a 'closed' record, i.e. no new records will be accepted, the category is no longer recognized (like in javelin, where you have a record with the old javelin and one with the new one, but you cannot break the old one any longer, as the competitions are no longer allowed (or recognized or whatever).
Best record was with something remotely resembling a bike, absolute (or current) record is with a more 'normal' bike.

And I don't agree with the letter: Boardman didn't break the records on the velodromes where the old record was achieved, so why would Armstrong need to do that? It's all part of the game, choosing the best location etc.

Thumper
2005-Jan-28, 11:57 AM
Found it myself:


The current "absolute" hour record stands at 49.441km set by Chris Boardman on October 27, 2000, at a special session of the 2000 Track Cycling World Championships in Manchester, UK (see report). This "Absolute" record, as defined by the UCI, was set at near-sea level in the British city. The UCI has strict requirements on the technology that can be used, designed to resemble the type of bicycle that Eddy Merckx used when he set the 'hour' at 49.43915 km in Mexico City (at over 2400m altitude) on October 25, 1972.


But Boardman also holds the record for what the UCI now calls the "best hour performance", where he used the latest in bicycle technology and aerodynamics to cover a staggering 56.375km in an hour in 1996. Boardman's then record was the latest in a staggering demolition of this record in the period from 1993-96, where Scotsman Graeme Obree, Moser, Miguel Indurain and Tony Rominger all smashed the record, until Boardman's remaining record was set in 1996.

Cycling news said Armstrong may be considering both records. The "aided by technology" factor, I believe will become more and more prominent in many diverse sports.

Bawheid
2005-Jan-28, 11:58 AM
The "absolute" record uses a bike essentially the same as the one Merckx used, the "best" allows more aerodynamic positions, either the arms almost completely extended, or tucked under the body a la Obree.

I don't think all records should be at a particular venue, Manchster is a fast track so it was no handicap for Boardman and he lives relatively close. Bordeaux is a fast track as well so it is often used. It seems that altitude has the advantage of thinner air so less wind resistance, but the converse is less oxygen. I have no idea if that is a real or psycological difference.

Thumper: Forgot to ask yesterday, what kind of cycling and what do you ride?

Thumper
2005-Jan-28, 01:47 PM
I have a Seven Axiom (http://www.sevencycles.com/bikes/axiom.html). They've redesigned their bikes in the last year or so but that's basically what I got. I used to basically just train solo for mid length triathlons. Mostly training, very little competitions (one or two a year). I'd do a few organized tours (centurys and double centuries). I have a buddy that would get me to do some mountain (trail) riding, which I did find fun.

The last few years have not been good for my workouts. Lots of factors have severely reduced the time I have to ride. But I'm going to try to do better this year. :D

How about you?

Bawheid
2005-Jan-28, 01:57 PM
What is it about triathletes and titanium? :D Mrs B is an occasional olympic length triathlete and rides a Litespeed.

Being a larger, more mature gentleman I ride a steel Colnago Master X-lite. Older version of this (http://www.colnagonews.com/cat2005/popup/master/index.htm#) without the cutouts in the chainstays.

I don't compete, just like to ride around. Most years we jump over to Belgium or France to ride some of the Classic courses.

There is another thread somewhere with other peoples bikes, including one built by Maksutov's son. I'll try and find it.

Edit: Found it here. (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=330328&highlight=colnago#330328) And noticed it contains a picture of your bike. #-o

Thumper
2005-Jan-28, 02:13 PM
#-o I remember that thread. #-o

I couldn't remember which forum it was on. Mak's son's bikes look cool. I rode a basic Cannondale Criterium frame for about 10 years until the derailleur hanger snapped off. (At about 30MPH, luckily the whole mess didn't decide to jam the rear wheel).

I wasn't ready to design/search/purchase my new bike but it was forced on me. So after many discussions and lots of reading I went with 7. I don't have enough miles on it to make a qualified review but I do like it. Is this Irony: I finally moved out far enough in the country to have safe easy rides right outside my front door. But I spend so much time keeping up the property (among other family and work things) that I don't have time to ride? :(

Bawheid
2005-Jan-28, 02:32 PM
Same as me rewarding myself with the Colnago when I got a new job, but the three hours a day travelling means I never get out. :(

Changing jobs next month so I'll have evenings again. :D

Bawheid
2005-Feb-16, 11:31 AM
But then again........

Armstrong to do Tour. (http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/v4/l0/s18/e7203/sport_lng0_spo18_evt7203_sto687816.shtml)

Add: Looks like it is part of the sponsorship deal with Discovery.

jfribrg
2005-Feb-16, 02:06 PM
As much as I enjoyed watching him win the last 6, I may actually root for somebody else. And no, I am not one of those people who delight in watching successful atheletes lose. (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=19585) I just think that it would be good for the sport for someone else to win, hopefully a young up-and-coming rider. Even if an old man like Ullrich wins, it would be good. However, if Armstrong does win, I won't be upset about it. He is a class act, is focused, has worked extremely hard and deserves all the accolades that he has received. I just wonder how many dozens of drug tests are necessary before the officials conclude that he really doesn't use drugs.

Fram
2005-Feb-16, 02:17 PM
As much as I enjoyed watching him win the last 6, I may actually root for somebody else. And no, I am not one of those people who delight in watching successful atheletes lose. (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=19585) I just think that it would be good for the sport for someone else to win, hopefully a young up-and-coming rider. Even if an old man like Ullrich wins, it would be good. However, if Armstrong does win, I won't be upset about it. He is a class act, is focused, has worked extremely hard and deserves all the accolades that he has received. I just wonder how many dozens of drug tests are necessary before the officials conclude that he really doesn't use drugs.

The officials will keep on testing him, but that doesn't mean he uses drugs or they believe he does. They have to test everyone, and the more successful someone is, the more tests. The problem is the press (especially the French press), who have painted him as a drug abuser, and now don't want to apologize or at least shut up about it.

I would rather not see Ullrich win, but that's a supporters view, nothing really objective. But a younger rider winning it, preferably after a good fight? Why not, plenty of candidates (although I hope it will be someone more colourful than Basso). No Belgians among them though :cry:

Doodler
2005-Feb-16, 02:59 PM
One of the tricks for training in endurance events at high altitudes is to spend several weeks there before hand. On average, after a month or so, you're body should have time to add additional blood to your bloodstream to compensate for the difference. Coming into high altitude places like Denver cold turkey from someplace like, oh say Washington DC, we're you're practically at sea level can leave you feel like you're suffocating. (Speaking from personal experience)

I've also been told that training at high altitudes, then returning to compete at low altitudes can give you a stamina boost, because it takes time for the body to cycle out the additional blood. Something like a holistic type of blood doping.

Bawheid
2005-Feb-16, 03:00 PM
Graeme Obree's (former Hour Record holder) view on testing was interesting. He said that if Armstrong broke the record he should insist on the doping agency retaining extra samples of blood, hair, urine and anything else they could think of so that in the future when a test is developed for new drugs his samples could be tested to show he hadn't taken them.

I think the demands of the ProTour may mean the team isn't as focussed this year. Interesting if Cunego has a go, but it is Armstrong's to lose. I think Vinokourov has more chance than Ullrich, they have a strong strong team behind them and it would have been interesting last year if Vino hadn't been injured.

Latest odds from MrBookmaker.com
ARMSTRONG Lance (USA - DSC) 1.75
BASSO Ivan (ITA - CSC) 7.00
CUNEGO Damiano (ITA - LAM) 8.00
ULLRICH Jan (GER - MOB) 3.50

Bawheid
2005-Feb-16, 03:04 PM
I've also been told that training at high altitudes, then returning to compete at low altitudes can give you a stamina boost, because it takes time for the body to cycle out the additional blood. Something like a holistic type of blood doping.

This works in the short term, but only lasts about a week or so before the haematocrit level drops again. In most Grand Tours the first week is flat with the mountains in the final two. It is used for specific one day races like the Worlds or the Olympics.

The more modern version is to sleep in a chamber that simulates altitude which has the same effect.

SeanF
2005-Feb-16, 04:32 PM
As much as I enjoyed watching him win the last 6, I may actually root for somebody else. And no, I am not one of those people who delight in watching successful atheletes lose. (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=19585) I just think that it would be good for the sport for someone else to win, hopefully a young up-and-coming rider. Even if an old man like Ullrich wins, it would be good. However, if Armstrong does win, I won't be upset about it. He is a class act, is focused, has worked extremely hard and deserves all the accolades that he has received. I just wonder how many dozens of drug tests are necessary before the officials conclude that he really doesn't use drugs.
The officials will keep on testing him, but that doesn't mean he uses drugs or they believe he does. They have to test everyone, and the more successful someone is, the more tests. The problem is the press (especially the French press), who have painted him as a drug abuser, and now don't want to apologize or at least shut up about it.
Joke time!

Lance Armstrong was disqualified from the Tour de France when French officials found he had used illegal substances - soap, shampoo, and deodorant.

;)

Doodler
2005-Feb-16, 04:36 PM
As much as I enjoyed watching him win the last 6, I may actually root for somebody else. And no, I am not one of those people who delight in watching successful atheletes lose. (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=19585) I just think that it would be good for the sport for someone else to win, hopefully a young up-and-coming rider. Even if an old man like Ullrich wins, it would be good. However, if Armstrong does win, I won't be upset about it. He is a class act, is focused, has worked extremely hard and deserves all the accolades that he has received. I just wonder how many dozens of drug tests are necessary before the officials conclude that he really doesn't use drugs.
The officials will keep on testing him, but that doesn't mean he uses drugs or they believe he does. They have to test everyone, and the more successful someone is, the more tests. The problem is the press (especially the French press), who have painted him as a drug abuser, and now don't want to apologize or at least shut up about it.
Joke time!

Lance Armstrong was disqualified from the Tour de France when French officials found he had used illegal substances - soap, shampoo, and deodorant.

;)

Ned anthr kybord... :lol: