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View Full Version : Do you think that Canadian super-group Rush is over-rated?



banquo's_bumble_puppy
2015-Dec-22, 11:38 AM
Do you think that Canadian super-group Rush is over-rated? I have never understood why people think they are so great. Same thing with Bachman Turner Overdrive. I realize that they have a huge following. I cannot put Nickelback in the same category as the aforementioned grouping. Nickelback sounds like at least two other bands. The thing I also can't get is why The Tragically Hip never really made it big. Guess it's all a matter of taste.

CJSF
2015-Dec-22, 11:50 AM
Guess it's all a matter of taste.
Clearly. If anything, I think they tended to be underrated for a good chunk of their career. In fact, I think YOU are underrating them now. Even if you aren't fans of their style of rock, they've had a tremendous influence on rock music. BTO are good, but (in my opinion) not the same caliber as Rush. But, you know, I am sure there are legions of BTO fans that disagree. But in the end, I think Rush has had a bigger impact than BTO. All 3 of Rush's members are accomplished musicians, two are gifted lyricists (Peart is obviously the better), and one has set the bar for drumming into the stratosphere. They've toured consistently and nearly continuously for 40 years (Peart's personal tragedies did put a halt to things for a few years).

Obviously, I'm a huge fan.

Clone bands like Nickelback are good for the occasional song and/or video, I suppose. I can't say I know much about Tragically Hip.

CJSF

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2015-Dec-22, 12:24 PM
Clearly. If anything, I think they tended to be underrated for a good chunk of their career. In fact, I think YOU are underrating them now. Even if you aren't fans of their style of rock, they've had a tremendous influence on rock music. BTO are good, but (in my opinion) not the same caliber as Rush. But, you know, I am sure there are legions of BTO fans that disagree. But in the end, I think Rush has had a bigger impact than BTO. All 3 of Rush's members are accomplished musicians, two are gifted lyricists (Peart is obviously the better), and one has set the bar for drumming into the stratosphere. They've toured consistently and nearly continuously for 40 years (Peart's personal tragedies did put a halt to things for a few years).

Obviously, I'm a huge fan.

Clone bands like Nickelback are good for the occasional song and/or video, I suppose. I can't say I know much about Tragically Hip.

CJSF

I think that I just don't get Rush. I think I owned; not sure of albums name...Cygnus X1? in 8 track form in the late 70s. You are right about Bachman Turner Overdrive...not being in the same class. Rush is more cerebral; whereas BTO is more rough around the edges. And I admit to liking one or two of Nickelback's songs. Busted..

CJSF
2015-Dec-22, 12:28 PM
Cygnus X-1 is from their prog-rock era. I think you'll find their 80s-90s offereings quite different. There are still progressive and "cerebral" elements, but I think their post-70s sound and content might be more palatable to you. Their post 2000 work builds more off that rather than earlier works, and is also good, if a bit more straightforwardly philosophical at times.

CJSF

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 04:51 PM
I used to be a much bigger Rush fan in the 1980s and 90s but haven't really listened to them in a decade or more.

Their 70s music is much different and uneven I think before they hit on the composing formula that seemed to work for them. Namely Peart wrote the lyrics and Lee and Lifeson wrote the music. Then there is the whole skill set of the three musicians which is considerable.

I think BTO may be a regional thing, they were really big here out west.

I won't comment on Nickelback, Christmas is coming and I don't want to end up with a lump of coal in my stocking.;)

Shaula
2015-Dec-22, 05:10 PM
Wait, Bachman Turner Overdrive is a real thing? I thought it was a Harry Enfield joke band!

And Googling them I even know some of their songs... You live and learn.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 06:32 PM
Yup they're real and were very big on the west coast of Canada at least in the 1970s.

I hadn't heard of Harry Enfield and this is what I got when I Googled him + BTO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaQCr4PIsHE

This is the BTO song at the end of that bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFRk0FfaQi0

And this is probably their biggest hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIUf8eYPqA

Randy Bachman of BTO was also the lead guitarist in another big Canadian band from the 1960s and early 70s, The Guess Who.

You may have heard this song of theirs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl4GWOkvDeM

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 06:36 PM
This is my favorite BTO song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmSXIOlN6mY

Plus the great Big Sugar cover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laz6kGaUM6E

redshifter
2015-Dec-22, 06:54 PM
I think if someone doesn't like (or 'get') Rush (or any other band, regardless of genre), that's totally cool. Different strokes. Regardless of your opinion of Rush, you can't deny the effect they've had on rock/prog rock/metal/etc. You can't deny the multiple awards they've won not just for record sales (itself not necessarily a measure of genuine talent) but also the significant recognition each member has received over the years. And you must be doing something right if you can release so many albums over several decades. So personally, I wouldn't say they're overrated.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 07:08 PM
And they may have just helped save the world - in the Chuck series anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHST5n068bc

DaveC426913
2015-Dec-22, 07:09 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure why it needs to be pathologized. There's no authoritative scale of greatness.

Music, like religion, is a highly personal thing, not subject to group approval.

But for my 2c: early Rush was good, culminating with 2112 and A Farewell to Kings. Never got into the later, more mainstream stuff.

captain swoop
2015-Dec-22, 07:14 PM
Red Barchetta and Xanadu are two of the best things you will listen to.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 07:21 PM
Kind of forgot how much I enjoyed Rush, I've got the Signals album playing on Youtube now. Say what you want about Rush, they are a very tight band, the music is seamless.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 08:00 PM
The thing I also can't get is why The Tragically Hip never really made it big. Guess it's all a matter of taste.

I'm not sure what you mean, in some places The Hip were huge. I lived in Vancouver in the 90s and their music was always being played by CFMI and other stations. And that's for an Ontario band.

I don't think The Hip ever moved away from their Canadian roots which limited their success in other places. For instance how many people in other countries could get what The Maple Leafs and their history mean to some Canadians.

The Hip - 50 Mission Cap (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-t8W4X8Obo)

Another really good Hip song - Locked in the Trunk of a Car (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gOLNUJcD6E)

They were pretty amazing in their day, Greg Moore the Canadian Indy car driver credited The Hip song courage with helping inspire him to race.

redshifter
2015-Dec-22, 08:03 PM
Kind of forgot how much I enjoyed Rush, I've got the Signals album playing on Youtube now. Say what you want about Rush, they are a very tight band, the music is seamless.

I'm a big fan of everything through Signals. The later (2007) 'Snakes and Arrows' album isn't bad either. I haven't heard their latest release. I've seen them in concert twice, and they didn't disappoint. I've really enjoyed the "Time Machine" concert DVD lately; they play the entire Moving Pictures album.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 08:04 PM
I'm a big fan of everything through Signals. I've seen them in concert twice, and they didn't disappoint. I've really enjoyed the "Time Machine" concert DVD lately; they play the entire Moving Pictures album.

I loved the Show of Hands album, I'd love to see them in concert. Moving Pictures is also another great album, I still have it on vinyl, I need a new record player though.

redshifter
2015-Dec-22, 10:14 PM
I loved the Show of Hands album, I'd love to see them in concert. Moving Pictures is also another great album, I still have it on vinyl, I need a new record player though.

I think I have every Rush album on vinyl through Power Windows, but my turntable gave out years ago and the convenience of CD's/digitally stored formats has weaned me off vinyl. I'd be hard pressed to name my favorite Rush album, but Moving Pictures is really good. I remember buying it on vinyl when it was first released and not liking it a whole lot. It took a few years to really grow on me. Red Barchetta and The Camera Eye are two of my favorite Rush songs.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-22, 11:19 PM
Looking at their discography they've put out a large number of albums including almost a dozen live albums. I've had about half of their studio albums starting with A Farewell to Kings but mostly from the 1980s and early 90s, some of those were on cassette and have long since been worn out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_discography

The last Rush album I bought was Test for Echo, I'll have to check out their newer stuff.

Jens
2015-Dec-23, 03:24 AM
Just a quibble, but to me "supergroup" implies a band whose members were already famous in their own right, like Cream or Asia.

About Rush, they are actually the first famous band I saw live. I like their playing, but I'm not particularly fond of Geddy's voice or, even more so, Neil's lyrics. They always grate me as preachy.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-23, 05:10 AM
Neil was fairly heavily influenced by Any Rand in the early days of Rush, I think the 2112 album was based on a Rand novel so his lyrics may be a bit preachy at times. But he's moved well past that now and refers to himself as a "bleeding heart libertarian."

I really like the way that Rush has woven some pretty complex issues into what are rock songs, not many groups sing about the Manhattan Project and space exploration for instance.

Manhattan Project (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znr4yylgGH0)

Countdown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyA6VDdw9JY)

redshifter
2015-Dec-23, 06:19 AM
Just a quibble, but to me "supergroup" implies a band whose members were already famous in their own right, like Cream or Asia.

About Rush, they are actually the first famous band I saw live. I like their playing, but I'm not particularly fond of Geddy's voice or, even more so, Neil's lyrics. They always grate me as preachy.

I think I've seen that definition of 'supergroup' before.

Jens
2015-Dec-23, 07:20 AM
Neil was fairly heavily influenced by Any Rand in the early days of Rush, I think the 2112 album was based on a Rand novel so his lyrics may be a bit preachy at times. But he's moved well past that now and refers to himself as a "bleeding heart libertarian."

I really like the way that Rush has woven some pretty complex issues into what are rock songs, not many groups sing about the Manhattan Project and space exploration for instance.


It may partly be the Ayn Rand stuff, but it's more than that. Somehow I guess I find it overintellectual. Like somehow Closer to the Heart doesn't appeal to me like One Heart by Bob Marley does. I sometimes feel the same about Gilmour. His songs are OK but there's a lack of passion either positive or negative.

pindo
2015-Dec-23, 09:05 AM
Rush is still around?

CJSF
2015-Dec-23, 08:46 PM
Well, yes.. they just wrapped up their "R40" tour (40th anniversary) this summer. Unfortunately, Neil Peart announced that he can no longer tour due to physical stress on his body from drumming. What that means in terms of studio offerings and the like, down the road, is up in the air. In recent interviews Geddy and Alex have expressed their wish to continue to make music, so we'll see what happens.

CJSF

Inclusa
2015-Dec-24, 04:17 AM
Rock never appeals me me, so this is my blank area.

Jens
2015-Dec-24, 04:58 AM
Rock never appeals me me, so this is my blank area.

Thank for an extremely informative post. ;)

NewHalf
2015-Dec-26, 08:08 PM
Double post.

NewHalf
2015-Dec-26, 08:12 PM
Just a quibble, but to me "supergroup" implies a band whose members were already famous in their own right, like Cream or Asia.

A supergroup is made up of already famous members, RUSH, although long lived and famous aren't a supergroup.

slang
2015-Dec-26, 10:29 PM
Over-rated? Heck no! Loved their prog-rock, symphonic rock era, and some of the later stuff. Never cared much much for lyrics, but their SF and fantasy themes appealed to me. Great musicians, masters of their instruments, and not boring. Have to say that later albums, more mainstream rock, were less to my liking, although on every one there are a couple of songs I like. I must have played my music casette of the "Exit... Stage Left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DyYWMLgXZA)" live album hundreds of times. Great performance with only three musicians.

starcanuck64
2015-Dec-28, 04:42 AM
Over-rated? Heck no! Loved their prog-rock, symphonic rock era, and some of the later stuff. Never cared much much for lyrics, but their SF and fantasy themes appealed to me. Great musicians, masters of their instruments, and not boring. Have to say that later albums, more mainstream rock, were less to my liking, although on every one there are a couple of songs I like. I must have played my music casette of the "Exit... Stage Left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DyYWMLgXZA)" live album hundreds of times. Great performance with only three musicians.

I hadn't heard this one before, thanks.

It was A Show of Hands (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Zo_raGK_0) that I played until the cassette died.

redshifter
2015-Dec-28, 06:16 PM
Over-rated? Heck no! Loved their prog-rock, symphonic rock era, and some of the later stuff. Never cared much much for lyrics, but their SF and fantasy themes appealed to me. Great musicians, masters of their instruments, and not boring. Have to say that later albums, more mainstream rock, were less to my liking, although on every one there are a couple of songs I like. I must have played my music casette of the "Exit... Stage Left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DyYWMLgXZA)" live album hundreds of times. Great performance with only three musicians.

I think Exit...Stage Left was my first album where I began dabbling in the teenage activity of 'air guitar'. I think my favorite live Rush album is their first: All The World's a Stage.

novaderrik
2016-Jan-04, 06:43 AM
personally, i don't really like Rush all that much... i don't hate them, just don't really like them all that much. they just aren't my thing..

but pretty much every moderately successful rock band of the last 30 years has at least one member that is a HUGE Rush fan and cites them as a major influence on them when they were getting into music, which has to tell you something about the impact that they have had on the music that you find out there.

there was a meme that went around teh internets a couple of years ago that was a picture of Geddy Lee with the words "I play bass and sing, all while playing keyboards with my hands and feet. tell me more about Beyonce's artistry" that came out in the aftermath of Kanye West saying that Beyonce' was the greatest musical artist of all time..

i thought that was perfect.

on a slightly off topic nature, there is one thing that i do know for sure: the words "overrated" and "underrated" are definitely overused these days when talking about things that people like or dislike.. i once saw someone say in a Youtube comment section for a video of Metallica's "Enter Sandman", without anything that appeared like irony based on the comments that they put up to defend the initial comment after others asked him what the heck he was talking about, that they felt like that song was one of their most underrated..

Jens
2016-Jan-04, 07:32 AM
there was a meme that went around teh internets a couple of years ago that was a picture of Geddy Lee with the words "I play bass and sing, all while playing keyboards with my hands and feet. tell me more about Beyonce's artistry" that came out in the aftermath of Kanye West saying that Beyonce' was the greatest musical artist of all time..


I'm surprised, but has he ever played bass while playing keyboards with his hands? It seems like a pretty difficult trick for a human (though an octopus would find it easier). I suppose you could play open strings while playing keyboards with your left hand, or alternatively do hammer-ons and pull-offs with your left hand while playing keys with the right. Is that what he did?

Jens
2016-Jan-04, 07:43 AM
Just continuing with that thought, it's not that I don't think Geddy Lee is a great musician--he is--but playing instruments and singing simultaneously is not that unusual. Lots of piano players play while they're singing, and there are also lots of bass players or keyboardists who use bass pedals. There are drummers who sing too (I think I've seen Phil Collins doing that and Don Henley, and certainly Levon Helm), and they're using both hands and both feet while singing. So to some extent I think it's a question of knowing the material well enough that the playing becomes automatic.

slang
2016-Jan-04, 08:51 AM
I'm surprised, but has he ever played bass while playing keyboards with his hands? It seems like a pretty difficult trick for a human (though an octopus would find it easier). I suppose you could play open strings while playing keyboards with your left hand, or alternatively do hammer-ons and pull-offs with your left hand while playing keys with the right. Is that what he did?

I haven't seen Rush live or watched many live videos, but if one wants to see what a bass player can do with one hand, and then do it with both hands at once, look up some videos with Tony Levin playing a Chapman Stick.

Jens
2016-Jan-04, 09:36 AM
I haven't seen Rush live or watched many live videos, but if one wants to see what a bass player can do with one hand, and then do it with both hands at once, look up some videos with Tony Levin playing a Chapman Stick.

I'm a big fan. I've seen him live a bunch of times, with both PG and KC. :)