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selvaarchi
2016-Mar-19, 11:33 PM
ESA has organized a International Symposium on Moon 2020 – 2030: a New Era of Human and Robotic Exploration held at the European Space Agency’s ESTEC center in December 2015. This thread hopefully will be dedicated to that conference and all other activity that comes out from that international cooperation.

http://spaceflight.esa.int/humanrobotics/


Space Exploration has turned into a global endeavour as representatives of ASI (Italy), CNES (France), CNSA (China), CSA (Canada), CSIRO (Australia), DLR (Germany), ESA (European Space Agency), ISRO (India), JAXA (Japan), KARI (Republic of Korea), NASA (USA), NSAU (Ukraine), Roscosmos (Russia), and UKSA (United Kingdom) have formed the International Space Exploration Coordination Group (ISECG) that has created the Global Exploration Roadmap.

In this roadmap, the strategic goals and objectives of the ISECG members are turned into a logic sequence of mission themes covering the decade 2020 - 2030. In the ESA Space Exploration Strategy the mission theme of sustainable exploration of the Moon is integrated in the strategic exploration approach for Europe. A guiding principle is to implement exploration missions with humans and robots in a coordinated manner.

Already now there is investment by governments and private stakeholders in space exploration. In Europe the programme of Life and Physical Science in Space (ELIPS) helps understanding how humans can live and work in space, and the proposed contribution to the Russian-lead Luna programme takes the next steps in automated exploration of the lunar surface. ESA already participates on the critical path of developing human space transportation systems for missions beyond low Earth orbit by providing the European Service Module to be used in conjunction with the NASA-developed Orion crew module.

The first steps to expand the human experience beyond the close vicinity of the Earth have thus been taken by a determined international partnership - this is the time to formulate a concrete vision of how to explore the Moon in the next decade in a sustainable and affordable framework.

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-20, 02:41 PM
The first steps to expand the human experience beyond the close vicinity of the Earth have thus been taken by a determined international partnership - this is the time to formulate a concrete vision of how to explore the Moon in the next decade in a sustainable and affordable framework.

Well said! But again... not a word about the MAIN goal! What I mean? I'll give you a hint. The talks about "Mars" and "beyond" are exciting, but the goals are useless. They may fail like the "Apollo" or "Shuttle" projects without the clear strategy. 40 years are wasted and during those 40 years "we" (at least "I") never thought about it... We "hoped" and now see that the hope was senseless... We could achieve much more if we thought about this earlier...

I assume that "Space" is unnecessarily romanticized. Most people thinking of the "Space" imagine exciting adventures, incredible discoveries, amazing pictures... forgetting that 99% of "Space" is "mundane" or "boring" activity, and at the same time they use it virtually every day sometimes even without realizing it...

On the other hand this everyday activity is highly inefficient and damaging for the environment. The Moon could resolve this problem dramatically. And it would boost the whole "space industry" as well. But the Lunar environment is vulnerable too of course and the "Moon strategy" should be thoroughly designed from the very beginning.

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-20, 04:37 PM
Europe, Asia and North America are well represented. We are only missing representatives from Africa and Latin America, but a very good start at an international organization

You know why neither Germany (a "cradle" of the rocket technology actually), nor Ukraine could become a "full size" space nations? Situated in the centre of Europe and densely populated they can't launch heavy rockets from their territories in any direction without putting at risk their population and the population of neighbouring countries. ESA launches their Arianes from French Guiana. And Ukraine has agreement with Brazil to use a cosmodrome on their territory. It is about the Latin America! But for European countries Africa is much closer of course! And an ideal place for a space centre could be in the coast of Somali. But alas - the pirates as you probably know...

selvaarchi
2016-Mar-20, 08:37 PM
You know why neither Germany (a "cradle" of the rocket technology actually), nor Ukraine could become a "full size" space nations? Situated in the centre of Europe and densely populated they can't launch heavy rockets from their territories in any direction without putting at risk their population and the population of neighbouring countries. ESA launches their Arianes from French Guiana. And Ukraine has agreement with Brazil to use a cosmodrome on their territory. It is about the Latin America! But for European countries Africa is much closer of course! And an ideal place for a space centre could be in the coast of Somali. But alas - the pirates as you probably know...

India could be an option :D

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-20, 09:22 PM
India could be an option

Even Sri Lanka is "above" the Equator and it is almost as far as Brazil - twice father than Somali. For China Indonesia could be more suitable. Actually, Sea Launch may be an option - in this case rocket (some versions of "Zenit" are virtually as Falcon 9) could be launched from any place at sea - for any kind of orbits.

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-30, 02:07 PM
I'm not sure what comment I have to add to this announcement: http://spaceflights.news/?p=17013 If you have some questions, please ask.

bknight
2016-Mar-30, 02:18 PM
It would be good to have a proposal to explore beyond LEO.

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-30, 04:11 PM
It would be good to have a proposal to explore beyond LEO.
Explore what?

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-30, 07:20 PM
Here's an article in English about Ukrainian problems: http://uatoday.tv/opinion/ukrainian-space-going-in-circles-621309.html

selvaarchi
2016-Mar-30, 10:38 PM
It would be good to have a proposal to explore beyond LEO.
That will happen but I do not see that happening till the 2020s

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bknight
2016-Mar-31, 02:05 AM
Explore what?
Anything and everything from the Moon to the Planets.

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-31, 07:22 AM
Anything and everything from the Moon to the Planets.
And who should make the proposal? Exploration of the Planets, comets, asteroids will be much cheaper and easier after establishing the manufacturing infrastructure on the Moon. It should be the nearest and most important goal.

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-31, 07:25 AM
That will happen but I do not see that happening till the 2020s

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk It may happen tomorrow. Why the date is important? Do you mean that politicians need some time to "digest" the idea?

Noclevername
2016-Mar-31, 07:26 AM
And who should make the proposal? Exploration of the Planets, comets, asteroids will be much cheaper and easier after establishing the manufacturing infrastructure on the Moon. It should be the nearest and most important goal.

Some Near Earth asteroids take les delta-V to reach and return to Earth, than the surface of the Moon.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-31, 07:29 AM
It may happen tomorrow. Why the date is important? Do you mean that politicians need some time to "digest" the idea?

It will take time to build the physical spacecraft.

And I think "beyond LEO" means all missions that go further than a few hundred kilometers: So it's not one proposal presented to politicians, but everyone's government and/or private flights beyond that limit.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-31, 07:31 AM
And who should make the proposal? Exploration of the Planets, comets, asteroids will be much cheaper and easier after establishing the manufacturing infrastructure on the Moon.

Not for a long time, no. Building the mining and purifying facilities for water, and the power stations for separating the H2O into rocket fuels and oxidizer, will take at least a decade.


It should be the nearest and most important goal.

Not everyone thinks so.

selvaarchi
2016-Mar-31, 07:47 AM
It may happen tomorrow. Why the date is important? Do you mean that politicians need some time to "digest" the idea?
Do not know of any country that is working on a mission to the moon right now. Only country that has hinted they would go is China but they have their hands full with other missions until 2021.

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Gorbovski
2016-Mar-31, 08:18 AM
Not for a long time, no. Building the mining and purifying facilities for water, and the power stations for separating the H2O into rocket fuels and oxidizer, will take at least a decade.
They could do at least some tests to check the possibility.


Not everyone thinks so. Yes. That's the problem.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-31, 08:30 AM
They could do at least some tests to check the possibility.


What kinds of tests would you recommend?

Gorbovski
2016-Mar-31, 09:35 AM
What kinds of tests would you recommend?
I will post a message in the colonizing thread.