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View Full Version : Has the comicbook genre reached saturation point & WarnerBros losing the arms race?



Launch window
2016-Mar-28, 03:23 PM
Warner Bros were once the giants of comicbook movies and tv, the guys at Warner had a show with Wonder Woman, lots of cartoon shows. Warner Bros had a series of Superman movies with Donner and Reeve. Warner had the Burton Batman movies, and the critically praised Nolan films. Warner Bros was truly the king of fantasy with Harry Potters, the Lord of the Rings Movies and Batman. You did have other independent comic book movies but nothing to match them, indepenents like overseas animation like the Japanese Akira, A History of Violence, Judge Dredd, 30 Days of Night, From Hell, The Mask all comic scifi movies however none of these could touch Warner Brother's domination of the superhero genre and its publishing rival Marvel, in the 1990s was a bankrupt property.

Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation known for its hits with Planet of the Apes and Star Wars pops up as a new rival to DC Comics and Warner, they get the rights to Marvel's Xmen stories and Bryan Singer was hired to direct X-Men in 2000...it was a sucess and the follow it with sucessful Xmen films.

Marvel slowly makes a comeback getting the rights back to its own comicbook properties, they slowly build a combined Universe with Captain America, Ironman and others which over the years leads to a combined crossover movie called Avengers one of the most sucessful movies of all time. The guys at Marvel now experiment with other ideas like a Daredevil tv show and a wacky space faring Guardians of the Galaxy.
Ever since Marvel's arrival on the movie studio scene there seems to be something of a superhero movie arms race, we have also seen failures, some massive film flops like Green Lantern and Fantasic Four.
So has Warner Bros lost it, losing too much ground, did they rush too fast for their combined crossover universe and created too bleak a world in 'Batman v Superman'? Or after the sucess from the Nolan movies did critics expect too much 'high art' from the movie studio?

Critical reception seems poor, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice now has a Rating of 29% on Rottentomatoes and of 44% on Metacritic

The Critics might have got a little sick and tired of comicbook movies but maybe that's not what matters. For the studio what matters is the fans and if the movies make money. I'm pretty sure Critics were luke warm to movies like Fast and Furious, Hungergames, Transformers however the fanboys and fangirls loved them. Critics might not matter so much anymore, if the fans are still happy and willing to buy tickets the studios will make big money.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-28, 04:04 PM
So has Warner Bros lost it, losing too much ground, did they rush too fast for their combined crossover universe and created too bleak a world in 'Batman v Superman'?

I wouldn't say they've lost it all, but they have almost certainly lost this round. Yes, IMO they made their filmic universe just too dark.

Especially Superman. Supes was always supposed to be the Boy Scout, the hero's hero who never compromised his morals. Making him a neck-snapper tainted that for me and for many fans who grew up on a more wholesome image of the character. Make Batman as dark an antihero as you like, but Superman? I'll stick with memories of the Christopher Reeve version.

And the Avengers films, while violent, always lightened the mood with humor and stylized coolness of action. They nod and wink at the audience that, yes, this is unrealistic but they acknowledge and embrace that over-the-top unreality, sort of like the original James Bond films. The Avengers films are fun, in other words. The DC films are just unrelentingly heavy and a bit ponderous. Their universe seems to take itself too seriously.

Gillianren
2016-Mar-28, 04:50 PM
Given how well Deadpool is doing and has done in the theatres, any prediction of the collapse of the genre is clearly premature. According to most of my friends who have seen Batman v Superman, the problem is just that it's a bad movie.

Ara Pacis
2016-Mar-30, 06:57 PM
Ben Affleck destroys yet another comic book superhero? Apparently, he's not Ryan Reynolds.

I love Joss Whedon's work, but I think the Honest Trailers guys nailed it with Avengers 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeDJAKvcZ9o). Not being a comic book reader made me keep saying, "Who? What? Huh?"

Maybe the genre isn't dead, but if it isn't, maybe we should kill it with fire.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-30, 07:08 PM
Maybe the genre isn't dead, but if it isn't, maybe we should kill it with fire.

Given the huge amounts of money involved, I don't think it's going away anytime soon. The best one can hope for is an improvement in the quality of film plotting and writing overall.

(Since Joss Whedon is an unabashed comic book geek, I doubt he can write for a non-geek audience. He lacks the background in common.)

Launch window
2016-Mar-30, 07:12 PM
Hanz Zimmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_z5Z8rqEtI
OFFICIALLY RETIRES FROM THE SUPERHERO GENRE

KaiYeves
2016-Mar-30, 07:41 PM
I think it would be more appropriate to talk about the "superhero genre" than the "comic book genre". Comic books are simply a medium in the same way that film is, and can be used to tell many kinds of stories just as film can, the superhero genre is just the most common in American comics. Even in the US, though, there are many comics in other genres that could be adapted into movies that would not be considered to fall within the superhero genre.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-30, 07:43 PM
I think it would be more appropriate to talk about the "superhero genre" than the "comic book genre". Comic books are simply a medium in the same way that film is, and can be used to tell many kinds of stories just as film can, the superhero genre is just the most common in American comics. Even in the US, though, there are many comics in other genres that could be adapted into movies that would not be considered to fall within the superhero genre.

Good point. There are plenty of non-superhero comics, even in the USA. Some have been made into films, too.

starcanuck64
2016-Mar-30, 09:43 PM
Ben Affleck destroys yet another comic book superhero? Apparently, he's not Ryan Reynolds.

I love Joss Whedon's work, but I think the Honest Trailers guys nailed it with Avengers 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeDJAKvcZ9o). Not being a comic book reader made me keep saying, "Who? What? Huh?"

Maybe the genre isn't dead, but if it isn't, maybe we should kill it with fire.

That was great thanks, I had no idea we broke Joss.:)

There's definitely a dearth of originality that is being covered over with hugely expensive CGI...

Gillianren
2016-Mar-31, 04:57 AM
Good point. There are plenty of non-superhero comics, even in the USA. Some have been made into films, too.

Quite. Persepolis is a brilliant film based on an autobiographical novel about growing up in Iran.

Ara Pacis
2016-Mar-31, 07:06 AM
I think it would be more appropriate to talk about the "superhero genre" than the "comic book genre". Comic books are simply a medium in the same way that film is, and can be used to tell many kinds of stories just as film can, the superhero genre is just the most common in American comics. Even in the US, though, there are many comics in other genres that could be adapted into movies that would not be considered to fall within the superhero genre.

Probably, but most of the popular stuff comes from comic books and is sometimes not explained well enough to the audience, so that they will have had to have read the comic books to understand it.

Maybe that definition could apply to science fiction too, meaning someone has to have an understanding of science to get it, otherwise it's just fantasy, which explains why they're often combined in the same category.

Solfe
2016-Mar-31, 10:38 AM
According to most of my friends who have seen Batman v Superman, the problem is just that it's a bad movie.

I was thinking of naming a dog "Batman V. Superman". I think it could work.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-31, 10:47 AM
I was thinking of naming a dog "Batman V. Superman". I think it could work.

Your neighbors might think you're crazy when you start yelling his name for him to come inside.

SkepticJ
2016-Mar-31, 01:11 PM
I was thinking of naming a dog "Batman V. Superman". I think it could work.

Wouldn't that fall under cruelty to animals?

Ara Pacis
2016-Mar-31, 05:08 PM
I was thinking of naming a dog "Batman V. Superman". I think it could work.

So, you'll constantly call him Bad Dog? Give him a complex.

Noclevername
2016-Mar-31, 05:38 PM
At least name the poor dog after "Superman, The Movie", or "Superman II".

SkepticJ
2016-Mar-31, 06:20 PM
Or General Zod.

"Zod, kneel!"

starcanuck64
2016-Mar-31, 08:38 PM
Or General Zod.

"Zod, kneel!"

I like that, if I ever get a dog that's going to be on the list. "Heal Zod, you will not attack the Earthlings".

KaiYeves
2016-Mar-31, 10:10 PM
Good point. There are plenty of non-superhero comics, even in the USA. Some have been made into films, too.

It's non-US, but one comic-book movie I do want to see is a sequel to the 2011 Tintin film. Dang it, I've waited five years, I want to see Professor Calculus and his shark sub on screen!

starcanuck64
2016-Mar-31, 11:05 PM
It's non-US, but one comic-book movie I do want to see is a sequel to the 2011 Tintin film. Dang it, I've waited five years, I want to see Professor Calculus and his shark sub on screen!

That was an excellent movie, I wish they made more like that.

KaiYeves
2016-Apr-01, 12:41 PM
That was an excellent movie, I wish they made more like that.

I know, right?

starcanuck64
2016-Apr-02, 05:36 PM
I know, right?

Some of our friends in New Brunswick were French Canadian from Quebec and they turned us kids onto Tintin, Obelix and Asterix and other books like that which were an interesting change from North American style comics and kids stories.

The movie itself is directed by Steven Spielberg, uses beautifully rendered 3D motion capture and is voiced by Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, Daniel Craig, Andy Serkis and a bunch of other of my favorite actors. I'd pay to see a sequel in the theaters.

publiusr
2016-Apr-02, 07:01 PM
Looks like Titin is in real trouble
http://www.thelovecraftsman.com/2011/03/hp-lovecraft-and-cthulhu-meet.html

KaiYeves
2016-Apr-02, 09:58 PM
Some of our friends in New Brunswick were French Canadian from Quebec and they turned us kids onto Tintin, Obelix and Asterix and other books like that which were an interesting change from North American style comics and kids stories.

The movie itself is directed by Steven Spielberg, uses beautifully rendered 3D motion capture and is voiced by Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, Daniel Craig, Andy Serkis and a bunch of other of my favorite actors. I'd pay to see a sequel in the theaters.

I found the comics in my local library when I was younger and have read and re-read all of the ones published in English except The Castafiore Emerald (which our library didn't have). As it happens, I just read Land of the Soviets yesterday at the French consulate bookstore-- it was the first time I'd ever seen a print copy. And, err, in comparison to the later albums, you can definitely tell how Mr. Remi's writing and art improved over the decades... I found translations of Asterix more recently and really enjoy reading it, I always end up laughing at the slapstick and puns. There are a lot of Franco-Belgian comics that sound really cool that I'd like to check out but seem to be pretty hard to find in regular US bookstores or even comics shops.

The movie was spectacular, very much in the spirit of the comics, with lovely animation and a lot of fun and action. I saw it in 2-D, but I know it was animated for 3-D and I really liked the sense of "dimensionality" some scenes had like the chase after the map fragment, with people dropping things that were caught by people running by underneath, etc. I should watch it again...

starcanuck64
2016-Apr-02, 10:59 PM
The Edmonton library had Tintin and Obelix and Asterix, and I enjoyed reading them decades later as well as seeing the movie, as you say it captured the spirit of the stories well. For me it brought back memories of lying on the shore of the Bay of Chaleur in the summertime and enjoying the whimsical adventures of both series.

Canadian Netflix has an animated Asterix movie which is pretty humorous as well, this is the kind of thing that I wish Hollywood would do more of. Some of my favorite North American movies have been remakes of European gems and stories like Spielberg did with Tintin. It's far more artistic than a lot of the stuff that is basically mass assembled in Hollywood now.

Gillianren
2016-Apr-02, 11:20 PM
It came up in my film group recently--how cool would an Asterix movie voiced by William H. Macy be?

starcanuck64
2016-Apr-02, 11:40 PM
It came up in my film group recently--how cool would an Asterix movie voiced by William H. Macy be?

That would work.

John Goodman for Obelix maybe?

starcanuck64
2016-Apr-02, 11:49 PM
I guess the series is actually called Asterix, I don't know why but I remember it as Obelix and Asterix.

Gillianren
2016-Apr-03, 06:39 AM
That would work.

John Goodman for Obelix maybe?

Yes, please!

KaiYeves
2016-Apr-03, 06:59 AM
The Edmonton library had Tintin and Obelix and Asterix, and I enjoyed reading them decades later as well as seeing the movie, as you say it captured the spirit of the stories well. For me it brought back memories of lying on the shore of the Bay of Chaleur in the summertime and enjoying the whimsical adventures of both series.

Ah, for me it's reading Destination Moon in a barstool at the Italian restaurant my father would take me to on summer nights, waiting for a table to open up...

starcanuck64
2016-Apr-03, 05:06 PM
I remember The Crab With The Golden Claw and The Shooting Star but I'm sure there were other volumes too.

It looks like Peter Jackson is doing the next Tintin movie based on Prisoners of the Sun.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1037226/