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WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 04:32 PM
Would it not be a good idea, if humans head out to the stars, to use matrix ships, where people could all be plugged into a virtual reality? They could live out their lives, in generations, in a comfortable virtual world.

It might even be a good idea for trips within the solar system.

Maybe on a longhaul trip to the stars, people could be reduced to brains, and maybe a few other organs....reproductive ability would have to be artificial.

Noclevername
2016-Apr-29, 05:02 PM
It would not be a good idea. Humans have to keep themselves ready to handle unforeseen events in space. And there are always unforeseen events. I foresee that. ;)

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 05:07 PM
It would not be a good idea. Humans have to keep themselves ready to handle unforeseen events in space. And there are always unforeseen events. I foresee that. ;)

yes, I have thought of that. They could operate androids remotely....they could, like, electronically possess an android, and then deal with whatever situation needs dealing with.

Noclevername
2016-Apr-29, 05:22 PM
yes, I have thought of that. They could operate androids remotely....they could, like, electronically possess an android, and then deal with whatever situation needs dealing with.

That sounds more difficult and complicated than just keeping the crew alive and active.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 06:00 PM
That sounds more difficult and complicated than just keeping the crew alive and active.

well maybe a crew could be kept in human form, an thousands of others live in the matrix..the crew could, like in the movie, have the ability to go into the matrix.

DaveC426913
2016-Apr-29, 06:45 PM
I'm confused. Where are the humans in relation to the ship? Safe on Earth?

The signal delay to even or nearest neighbor, Mars, at closest approach, is 3 minutes.

That's a 6 minute round-trip for every human action/confirmation.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 06:54 PM
no, they'd all be packed on the ship.

Swift
2016-Apr-29, 07:21 PM
Of course, our technology for building interstellar ships is about the same as our technology for plugging people into virtual realities - mostly science fiction - so it doesn't much matter at this point.

01101001
2016-Apr-29, 08:42 PM
Would it not be a good idea, if humans head out to the stars, to use matrix ships, where people could all be plugged into a virtual reality?

I don't understand this sort of question: When event A happens, which hasn't happened yet, should it not employ technology B, which has not yet been invented?

How could the rational response be anything other than: we/they should use the most effective technology, selecting from whatever is available, to accomplish event A?

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 08:53 PM
I don't understand this sort of question: When event A happens, which hasn't happened yet, should it not employ technology B, which has not yet been invented?

How could the rational response be anything other than: we/they should use the most effective technology, selecting from whatever is available, to accomplish event A?

it's just idle speculation, 69. :p

Noclevername
2016-Apr-29, 09:37 PM
I think that by the time interstellar travel is remotely practical, we won't need to put people into suspended animation, we'll already have developed full closed life support.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 09:42 PM
I think that by the time interstellar travel is remotely practical, we won't need to put people into suspended animation, we'll already have developed full closed life support.

do you mean like an enclosed city?

That might get boring, if that was all you had for your whole life...generation after generation.

Brown Motie
2016-Apr-29, 09:55 PM
It would only be a good idea if suspended animation technology is not at the required level. There is the problem that the passengers will atrophy and age before they arrive. So they will be in a pretty bad shape, even if they are reduced to a brain in a jar.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 10:04 PM
that's why there would need to be reproductive ability with false wombs to create more people, who would be raised in the matrix....all a bit grim I guess.

Brown Motie
2016-Apr-29, 10:49 PM
But then you won't need the passengers? You can just send a foetus ship instead.

Noclevername
2016-Apr-29, 10:49 PM
do you mean like an enclosed city?

That might get boring, if that was all you had for your whole life...generation after generation.

Think about how you'd feel if you knew you were born and raised in a virtual world! Nothing real, only programming... And if they don't know it, that's arguably worse. It really would be the Matrix. Would you raise children that way? I wouldn't.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-29, 11:20 PM
Think about how you'd feel if you knew you were born and raised in a virtual world! Nothing real, only programming... And if they don't know it, that's arguably worse. It really would be the Matrix. Would you raise children that way? I wouldn't.

yes, maybe, as I said, a bit grim. Well maybe they could have their city with ordinary humans, in a tube like in Rama, and with the option of escaping into a matrix........then you could have a real and an unreal world......you could sit on a giant beach in the martrix if you wanted to escape the ship.

DaveC426913
2016-Apr-30, 12:06 AM
Ah. So you're essentially imagining the holodeck from Star Trek, but more involved.

Solfe
2016-Apr-30, 02:00 AM
The Prefect has characters that are linked into a VR simulation all the time. They don't seem to fair very well. Very few of them are named.

Oddly, they are up and about wandering the ships and habs doing thing. It isn't exactly clear what they are doing, but they seem to vote on actions and such.

01101001
2016-Apr-30, 03:09 AM
it's just idle speculation [...]

Oh, it seemed like an earnest question. Since it's not, the correct answer, the obviusly spectacular speculation, is: No, no, no. We should send our android descendants and not worry about stupid meat issues.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-30, 03:14 AM
Oh, it seemed like an earnest question. Since it's not, the correct answer, the obviusly spectacular speculation, is: No, no, no. We should send our android descendants and not worry about stupid meat issues.

Von Neumann probes? You're probably right. :D

JCoyote
2016-Apr-30, 07:06 AM
It makes sense to me. Just because people can access the thing doesn't mean they wouldn't be unaware they can leave. I expect, on a cramped ship, that sitting in a cocoon plugged into infinite artificial expanse would be how most would spend most of their time, it's far more space and mass efficient than providing full facilities. It's a trivial matter to have the simulations keep the crew informed of situations outside and any need for them to go tend things.

Not to copy Vanilli Sky but, I could see it combined with some form of hibernation biotechnology to slow the subjective experience of time, reduce caloric requirements, and extend the life of the crew until they reached the destination.

Noclevername
2016-Apr-30, 08:07 AM
It makes sense to me. Just because people can access the thing doesn't mean they wouldn't be unaware they can leave. I expect, on a cramped ship, that sitting in a cocoon plugged into infinite artificial expanse would be how most would spend most of their time, it's far more space and mass efficient than providing full facilities. It's a trivial matter to have the simulations keep the crew informed of situations outside and any need for them to go tend things.

For consenting adults, maybe. But on a multi-generation ship? Imagine what happens when they reach their destination and have to face the real world for the first time... and it's an alien world.

Mendoza
2016-Apr-30, 10:36 AM
Of course, our technology for building interstellar ships is about the same as our technology for plugging people into virtual realities - mostly science fiction - so it doesn't much matter at this point.

If you develop the matrix-VR technology, then you don't need the other technology, since you can just simulate the journey.

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-30, 04:50 PM
If you develop the matrix-VR technology, then you don't need the other technology, since you can just simulate the journey.

that's not gonna same the the huperson race though, when the sun goes red giant.

Noclevername
2016-Apr-30, 06:45 PM
I'm sure those who spend their lives Matricized will be beaten to the stars by the ones who keep their perceptions out in the Real World.

...Why does this whole conversation remind me of the song In The Year 2525?


In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth
Won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your side
You legs got nothing to do
Some machine's doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband
Won't need no wife
You'll pick your sons, pick your daughters too
From the bottom of a long glass tube

WaxRubiks
2016-Apr-30, 06:57 PM
So you are a fan of big city ships. Noc.

Noclevername
2016-Apr-30, 07:02 PM
So you are a fan of big city ships. Noc.

Or small fast ones, when and if that becomes feasible.

Yes, I figure since you're going to need to build a civilization when you get there anyway, you might as well just bring one with you.

publiusr
2016-May-01, 08:49 PM
I like the idea of very large slow ships, Some sleepers, some VR, some generation ship sections. A little bit of everything to draw on.

Noclevername
2016-May-02, 01:16 AM
I like the idea of very large slow ships, Some sleepers, some VR, some generation ship sections. A little bit of everything to draw on.

Just beware of social problems. Larry Niven's The Gift From Earth had the waking Crew of a slowship form its own insular culture during the generations-long trip, and became a ruling class over the thawed passengers when they arrived. Something similar happened with the Fithp in Footfall.

DaveC426913
2016-May-02, 01:58 AM
NCN gets three +1's from me. First for a great song reference, then for two great book references. ;)

Also happened in A World of of Time.

Noclevername
2016-May-02, 02:02 AM
NCN gets three +1's from me. First for a great song reference, then for two great book references. ;)

Yay me!

WaxRubiks
2016-May-02, 02:03 AM
of course the real answer is, when the time comes all humans will be turned into giant hyperspace cyborg spiders, who will fly out and we will spin a web so dark that the gentle ETs that have kept us in quarantine won't know what hit them. :D ;)

Noclevername
2016-May-02, 02:05 AM
of course the real answer is, when the time comes all humans will be turned into giant hyperspace cyborg spiders, who will fly out and we will spin a web so dark that the gentle ETs that have kept us in quarantine won't know what hit them. :D ;)

I for one welcome our new gentle overlords.

publiusr
2016-May-06, 08:17 PM
Just beware of social problems. Larry Niven's The Gift From Earth had the waking Crew of a slowship form its own insular culture during the generations-long trip, and became a ruling class over the thawed passengers when they arrived. Something similar happened with the Fithp in Footfall.

More like the other way around:

Meanwhile, back in the dome:--------------------------------------------------------

Great--this is the third time we've had to wake up to show these fools that the universe isn't just this vehicle. Oh and they've burned their manuals again. So **you're** the lead guy of these new Inquisition types? You look surprised. You don't know what this is?

It's called a gun. Now get back to tending the cyber spider-silk cows or I'm going to vent the lot of you into space."

"What's space? Oh good grief--HERE I'LL SHOW YOU!!!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Besides, the folks below may think it is only a colony ship. This is why the thawed ones get over-rides--in case the colonists go all eloi and crap. It takes more than a second coming. Have to wake up every few decades for the general beatings.


Colonists upon reaching destination

What this new world?
"erg. I just told you not five min. ago"

Oh great one--can you make me look younger?

"hey, I'm only God."

Praise the Chief Designers!!!

"There--that's more like it. I should have known not to leave those Pratchett novels lying around. Now they're all infallible texts."