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View Full Version : Radio tag tracking on students.



Doodler
2005-Feb-10, 11:01 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/02/10/tracking.students.ap/index.html

Orwell was off by 21 years. :o

Inferno
2005-Feb-10, 11:52 PM
Yes our kids certainly are something to fear.

Swift
2005-Feb-11, 01:57 PM
They should just put collars on them and get one of those invisible fences. That will keep the little mutts in the yard. Oh wait, these are grade school children, not dogs. I guess that means the leash is out.
:wink:
Seriously, this is more than a little excessive.

dgruss23
2005-Feb-11, 02:13 PM
They should just put collars on them and get one of those invisible fences. That will keep the little mutts in the yard. Oh wait, these are grade school children, not dogs. I guess that means the leash is out.
:wink:

Like that budweiser commercial?


Seriously, this is more than a little excessive.

Gotta agree.

Nethius
2005-Feb-11, 02:49 PM
quote from article


In addition to the privacy concerns, parents are worried that the information on and inside the badges could wind up in the wrong hands and endanger their children, and that radio frequency technology might carry health risks.

I would also be worried about that!

dgruss23
2005-Feb-11, 02:58 PM
quote from article


In addition to the privacy concerns, parents are worried that the information on and inside the badges could wind up in the wrong hands and endanger their children, and that radio frequency technology might carry health risks.

I would also be worried about that!

Yeah, no doubt perverts would find a way to use the technology to their advantage.

Its kind of like the gun control issue - the people committing the crimes aren't going to stop and say - "Gee, I'd better not saw off this shotgun because that's against the rules."

If anything, these badges would only encourage the kidnappers to kill their victims right away before someone realized the child was missing. Or they can toss the badge in the back of a pick-up truck and drive the other way with the end result the authorities are led out of their way and some poor sucker that just went to walmart for a few items find himself interrogated by the police.

kucharek
2005-Feb-11, 03:11 PM
quote from article


In addition to the privacy concerns, parents are worried that the information on and inside the badges could wind up in the wrong hands and endanger their children, and that radio frequency technology might carry health risks.

I would also be worried about that!

Yeah, no doubt perverts would find a way to use the technology to their advantage.

I assume, Nethius' remark was irony towards the last part of the quote.

What worries me in general is, that society seems to consider oder and law inforcement more and more a technical problem and not one of socialisation and education. Of course, we can leave our kids the whole day in front of the telly or computer while we do our work or enjoy our wealth. But then to handle the outcome of such a behaviour by putting the kids under control by ways of technology is a road that leads to disaster.

Doodler
2005-Feb-11, 03:11 PM
quote from article


In addition to the privacy concerns, parents are worried that the information on and inside the badges could wind up in the wrong hands and endanger their children, and that radio frequency technology might carry health risks.

I would also be worried about that!

Yeah, no doubt perverts would find a way to use the technology to their advantage.

Its kind of like the gun control issue - the people committing the crimes aren't going to stop and say - "Gee, I'd better not saw off this shotgun because that's against the rules."

If anything, these badges would only encourage the kidnappers to kill their victims right away before someone realized the child was missing. Or they can toss the badge in the back of a pick-up truck and drive the other way with the end result the authorities are led out of their way and some poor sucker that just went to walmart for a few items find himself interrogated by the police.


I think its even simpler than that.

/pervbrainmode ON

"Gee, radiotracking badge, might wanna ditch that after I snag the kid"

/pervbrainmode OFF

Congratulations, you have successfully tracked down a dumpster... #-o

Nethius
2005-Feb-11, 03:23 PM
"I assume, Nethius' remark was irony towards the last part of the quote."

Actually i was refering to the top part of the quote. i probably should have cut it off there to avoid confusion...

jfribrg
2005-Feb-11, 03:58 PM
I kind of like the idea. I have a memory of some high school episodes nobody would fess up to having broken a light in the gym so the whole class was punished. With technology like this, you would know who wasn't there and so the need for group punishment is greatly diminished. There were also some students who would sneak into the nearby woods for various illicit reasons. Such activity would be eliminated. Imagine if the location of the teenager were transmitted to the parent's computer every 5 minutes or so. You get a nice picture of his movements for the entire evening. If the kid moved 8 miles in those 5 minutes then you know he was well above the speed limit. If he said he was going to a friend's house, that's exactly what he would do, knowing that if he went somewhere else, his parents would know. You're not evesdropping on his conversations or anything, but you are forcing him to be honest in explaining where he is going and who he will be with.

kucharek
2005-Feb-11, 04:10 PM
I don't know if forced honesty is really "honesty".
What would you think about a company forcing their workers to wear such tracking badges? Would you feel comfortable to know that your boss knows how often you take a leak or go to the coffee machine?
Would you like it if your wife asks you to wear such a badge so she always knows where you are and she can stop worrying about that maybe you're not where you claim to be?

Doodler
2005-Feb-11, 04:22 PM
No, honestly, I'd leave any company that trifled with this stuff.

What bugs me at the core here is the kind of suffocation people drop on these kids. Lets face it, a lot of the development that these kids get in determining who they are when they are older is done when they are allowed to operate on their own. This kind of crap is going to produce a generation of kids so hopelessly sheltered they won't know how to function without someone looking over their shoulder.

Its feeding parental paranoia too much ammunition. You don't grow in an environment that cages you.

sidmel
2005-Feb-12, 12:02 AM
There were also some students who would sneak into the nearby woods for various illicit reasons.

The thing is, that's all part of the growing up process. You make your mistakes, you learn from them or you don't. Now with this technology we can force students to be 'good' and to abide by our values, but without really learning for themselves why those values have evolved: Don't do it just because we say not too, and oh yeah, we're watching you just in case.

Growing up, I've done a number of things that I wouldn't if I'd known I was being monitored, but I learned just as many important lessons that I still take to heart today. Hey, ref, let the kids play!

If I sound too criptic, I apologize, but this really hits a sore spot and is a bit disturbing to me.

Argos
2005-Feb-12, 01:15 PM
What worries me in general is, that society seems to consider oder and law inforcement more and more a technical problem and not one of socialisation and education. Of course, we can leave our kids the whole day in front of the telly or computer while we do our work or enjoy our wealth. But then to handle the outcome of such a behaviour by putting the kids under control by ways of technology is a road that leads to disaster.

I make these words mine.

Ilya
2005-Feb-12, 07:56 PM
While I mostly agree with the sentiments expressed here, I think the cat is out of the bag. I honestly think that by the time these kids grow up, the whole concept of "privacy" will be dead. As Sun's CEO Scott McNeally famously said at a press conference, "You already have zero privacy. Get over it". And I (and almost certainly McNeally) do not mean Big Brother-style government surveillance. Rather, all of us are constantly watched by a whole slew of Little Brothers -- how many security cameras do you walk by in the course of a day? They are not all owned by the same agency, but they keep track of you all the same. Not to mention all credit card transactions, all uses of "smart cards", cell phones, etc. And it's not malicious power-mad individuals who created these web of surveillance -- it is card/phone users themselves, for whom convenience (and yes, security) greatly outweigh privacy considerations. Sorry, but privacy is on its way out, because great many people like it that way.

Andromeda321
2005-Feb-12, 08:38 PM
If my school had ever instituted one of these I'd've chucked it out the window and faced the consequences. I mean I find it rather interesting that no one here, while talking about their own teenage shenanagins, talks about developing trust between teenagers and authorities: everyone seems to assume we just can't be trusted.
I personally believe that one of the biggest things you can do in your teenage years is earn the trust of those around you. For example, my parents never gave me a curfew while growing up and simply assumed that I was telling them the truth about where I was going and until when because I had spent all of my life being an indavidual who did not lie to her parents about such things. At my school one of the biggest things we did was someday getting your study halls turned into free periods instead: something you got to do when your academics were high and you were considered a good student. Introducing tags blatantly tells the kid that you are never going to trust them which never does anyone any good.
Some people are pointing out "but what if a kid gets kidnapped?" etc. Let me tell you something: the odds that a child gets kidnapped in this country by a random stranger are so low that it'd be almost cost prohibitive to go out and "protect" kids for this sole purpose. You'd do it because you have no trust, pure and simple, so stop lying to yourself.

Makgraf
2005-Feb-12, 09:11 PM
I don't know if forced honesty is really "honesty".
This is a very good point. What happens when these kids who have been coerced to be good find themselves in a situation where the coercion has been removed? If the reason that you don't do illicit wood activities is because you know your parents are monitoring you rather than out of a sense of morality, what happens when your parents are no longer monitoring?

archman
2005-Feb-12, 09:18 PM
I'm surprised the project ever made it this far in an american school. I would assume 9/11's social effects had an indirect hand to play.

I don't think these tags will last very long. Public outcry seems to be very high and increasing.

Brady Yoon
2005-Feb-13, 06:34 AM
:o What is wrong with these people?

Ilya
2005-Feb-13, 01:40 PM
:o What is wrong with these people?

1. They value security over freedom -- for their children, if not for themselves.

2. They have no clue about cost-benefit analysis.