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BigDon
2016-Dec-03, 11:36 PM
Since the early 1950's at least, in the US the media has portrayed those creatures related to ogres and their kin universally having either Chicago accents or those of one of the New York Burroughs or another.

So this led me to wonder, do such creatures in British or Australian cartoons demonstrate such uniformity of accent relative to specific areas?

grant hutchison
2016-Dec-04, 12:57 AM
I'm not sure I've heard a British goblin or troll speak.
But I did notice that the dwarves [sic] in the first Lord of the Rings movie had Scottish accents, just before I fell asleep.

Grant Hutchison

KaiYeves
2016-Dec-04, 12:59 AM
Since the early 1950's at least, in the US the media has portrayed those creatures related to ogres and their kin universally having either Chicago accents or those of one of the New York Burroughs or another.

So this led me to wonder, do such creatures in British or Australian cartoons demonstrate such uniformity of accent relative to specific areas?
I always read it as Brooklyn or New Jersey when I saw people imitating them online, but apparently the Orks from "Warhammer 40,000" are supposed to have exaggerated Cockney accents.

swampyankee
2016-Dec-04, 01:26 AM
Everybody knows that American goblins & trolls are from St Louis.

Buttercup
2016-Dec-04, 01:38 AM
Nazis in old movies always spoke with a crisp British accent.

swampyankee
2016-Dec-04, 02:39 AM
Nazis in old movies always spoke with a crisp British accent.

Well, I think Lord Ha-Ha spoke in RP.

There is still quite a lot of stereotyping associated with accents, be they American regional accents (there are at least 3 in Connecticut) or the broader range of accents in Commonwealth English.

Swift
2016-Dec-04, 03:07 AM
Science & Technology?

Moved from there to SMAL

The Backroad Astronomer
2016-Dec-04, 04:33 AM
That is because if the trolls/goblins bring a knife you bring a gun, that is the Chicago way.

Solfe
2016-Dec-04, 05:38 AM
My dad, a historian always has an accent gripe for old American movies.

Any film in and about the time of the American Revolution should have all English speaking characters with approximately the same accent, unless of course they are French, Dutch, Native Americans, etc. speaking English. If anyone is going to start using archaic words, the Americans should be doing that. The further back from 1776 you go, the more similar the accents should be.

Anything about Robin Hood gives the English Lords a modern British sounding accent and Robin Hood and his friends get an American accent. This should be flipped in my dad's opinion. I am not sure why.

captain swoop
2016-Dec-04, 12:20 PM
In Hollywood Robin Hood type films Peasants always had Cockney or West Country style accents. Never Northern or Midlands which is ironic considering where Nottingham and Shewood Forest are located.

swampyankee
2016-Dec-04, 01:29 PM
In Hollywood Robin Hood type films Peasants always had Cockney or West Country style accents. Never Northern or Midlands which is ironic considering where Nottingham and Shewood Forest are located.

It's because American audiences can't understand some of Northern accents.

Trebuchet
2016-Dec-04, 03:07 PM
In Doctor Who, Vincent VanGogh has a Scottish accent. He asks Amy "Are you Dutch, like me?"

swampyankee
2016-Dec-04, 03:28 PM
My dad, a historian always has an accent gripe for old American movies.

Any film in and about the time of the American Revolution should have all English speaking characters with approximately the same accent, unless of course they are French, Dutch, Native Americans, etc. speaking English. If anyone is going to start using archaic words, the Americans should be doing that. The further back from 1776 you go, the more similar the accents should be.

Anything about Robin Hood gives the English Lords a modern British sounding accent and Robin Hood and his friends get an American accent. This should be flipped in my dad's opinion. I am not sure why.


I remember reading that the accents that are probably closest to the colonial-era US accents are those of the more isolated areas of Appalachia. Accents have all sorts of interesting effects, one of which is that part of the reason that there are different accents in the northern vs southern US is that the settlers for those areas tended to come from different parts of England and, later, Britain. Accents in the British Isles would also, of course, change with time, and given the limited trans-Atlantic communication, they would change differently than those in the US. The same applies, to a somewhat lesser extent, with accents between the northern and southern US.

Buttercup
2016-Dec-04, 05:18 PM
My dad, a historian always has an accent gripe for old American movies.

Any film in and about the time of the American Revolution should have all English speaking characters with approximately the same accent...

I have a gripe too, mostly pertaining to old TV shows: Putting on a British-type accent (Agnes Moorehead as "Endora" in Bewitched a prime example). It's like...you're an American, okay? :rolleyes: Love Ms. Moorehead and Endora, but the "flares" she put on certain words was sometimes annoying.

KaiYeves
2016-Dec-04, 07:12 PM
I have a gripe too, mostly pertaining to old TV shows: Putting on a British-type accent (Agnes Moorehead as "Endora" in Bewitched a prime example). It's like...you're an American, okay? :rolleyes: Love Ms. Moorehead and Endora, but the "flares" she put on certain words was sometimes annoying.

You mean like the transatlantic accents that used to be common in theater and film or an American character just badly doing a British accent?

Buttercup
2016-Dec-04, 07:25 PM
You mean like the transatlantic accents that used to be common in theater and film or an American character just badly doing a British accent?

Both.

grant hutchison
2016-Dec-04, 07:43 PM
You mean like the transatlantic accents that used to be common in theater and film or an American character just badly doing a British accent?In Agnes Moorehead's case, presumably a really bad British accent - I didn't notice her sounding anything other than American. But of course, that was a feature of the old American fashion of a "transAtlantic accent" in the '30s and '40s - it only ever sounded English to Americans.

Grant Hutchison

publiusr
2016-Dec-04, 07:48 PM
Any time we had a bad storm, we'd hear "it's a booger!"

That being Boggart of bugbear?

Delvo
2016-Dec-05, 05:27 AM
Since the early 1950's at least, in the US the media has portrayed those creatures related to ogres and their kin universally having either Chicago accents or those of one of the New York Burroughs or another.Like when/where?

bengali
2016-Dec-05, 06:09 AM
I think they should speak like Ozzy Osbourne.

Trebuchet
2016-Dec-05, 04:44 PM
The British trolls I encounter, like the American ones, don't seem to have any accent when I read them on the internet.

The Backroad Astronomer
2016-Dec-05, 04:59 PM
That is because most of us internet trolls are from Canada, kind of a mixture between the two.

BigDon
2016-Dec-09, 02:59 PM
I'm not sure I've heard a British goblin or troll speak.
But I did notice that the dwarves [sic] in the first Lord of the Rings movie had Scottish accents, just before I fell asleep.Grant Hutchison

Which is part of the reason the good Doctor is retired now. (One too many over inflated patients.)



I'll just see my way out. :whistle:

Trebuchet
2016-Dec-09, 03:34 PM
This Goblin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Goblin) spoke with a throaty roar, I assume.

grant hutchison
2016-Dec-09, 04:01 PM
Which is part of the reason the good Doctor is retired now.
Well, I once considered prescribing a showing of the Lord of the Rings movies as a preoperative sedative - I found the first two so soporific I've refused to watch the third. But The Engish Patient works better. No-one can stay conscious during The English Patient.

Grant Hutchison

BigDon
2016-Dec-09, 11:17 PM
Well, I once considered prescribing a showing of the Lord of the Rings movies as a preoperative sedative - I found the first two so soporific I've refused to watch the third. But The Engish Patient works better. No-one can stay conscious during The English Patient.

Grant Hutchison

Ach! I know that one!

Whenever the ex wanted to be "left alone" after the wee ones were abed, she would put that on the television!

twentyfive minutes into it you can actually feel your cognitive functions begin to flat line!

Solfe
2016-Dec-10, 01:29 AM
My 14 year old loves the Lord of the Rings. However, he calls The Hobbit movies "The Bloating of the Five Pages".

swampyankee
2016-Dec-11, 01:43 PM
In Doctor Who, Vincent VanGogh has a Scottish accent. He asks Amy "Are you Dutch, like me?"

Somewhere, I read that during WW1 there was a kerfuffle because people thought there were Russian soldiers filling a train in Britain (more precisely, England): they were speaking a weird, incomprehensible language.

They were Scottish soldiers, speaking Gaelic.

grant hutchison
2016-Dec-11, 02:37 PM
Somewhere, I read that during WW1 there was a kerfuffle because people thought there were Russian soldiers filling a train in Britain (more precisely, England): they were speaking a weird, incomprehensible language.

They were Scottish soldiers, speaking Gaelic.The 4th Seaforth Highlanders (http://www.1914-1918.net/seaforth.htm). When asked where they came from, they supposedly replied "Ross-shire", which was understood as "Russia". (Ross-shire was the core recruiting area for the 4th Seaforth - a Scottish county that actually ceased to exist as in independent entity in 1889, but the name remained attached to the 4th Battalion). The story that hundreds of Cossacks had been recruited into the British army supposedly got all the way to the German high command, which quite suited the British government, so they happily let the rumour run.

Grant Hutchison

Solfe
2016-Dec-11, 04:04 PM
The 4th Seaforth Highlanders (http://www.1914-1918.net/seaforth.htm). When asked where they came from, they supposedly replied "Ross-shire", which was understood as "Russia". (Ross-shire was the core recruiting area for the 4th Seaforth - a Scottish county that actually ceased to exist as in independent entity in 1889, but the name remained attached to the 4th Battalion). The story that hundreds of Cossacks had been recruited into the British army supposedly got all the way to the German high command, which quite suited the British government, so they happily let the rumour run.

Grant Hutchison

LOL!

I used to do meeting via phone with a UK affiliate company. For the first two weeks, I had no idea what was going on. After that, my brain started processing the accents and it was seriously good fun. I enjoyed those meetings largely due to the lack of filters and tactical f bombs dropped on present targets.

swampyankee
2016-Dec-11, 04:22 PM
LOL!

I used to do meeting via phone with a UK affiliate company. For the first two weeks, I had no idea what was going on. After that, my brain started processing the accents and it was seriously good fun. I enjoyed those meetings largely due to the lack of filters and tactical f bombs dropped on present targets.

Many years ago, I had a business trip to the UK, where I found the accents largely more comprehensible than the more extreme ones in central Tennessee. One of the people I was working with invited me to dinner at his house. His wife was a human factors expert working with the British Army. Apparently, British people's accents are more complex than just regional: they depend on class (d'oh), profession, and school. She told a story of a young officer with whom she worked who spoke with his regional accent when he wasn't officering, but with a rather specific Royal-Army-officer-from-Sandhurst accent when he was on duty. The two accents were quite distinct.

I've seen (well, heard) the same thing with some American minority groups: different accent and speech patterns with friends and family vs the wider public.

grant hutchison
2016-Dec-11, 05:06 PM
I've seen (well, heard) the same thing with some American minority groups: different accent and speech patterns with friends and family vs the wider public.It's common in the UK, in part driven by how disparate British regional accents can be. If you grow up in a town that has a strong local accent and quite rich local vocabulary (as I did) then you need to throttle that back just to make yourself easily understood in the wider community.
My wife notices that my brother and I speak differently when we talk to each other than when we talk to strangers. And because I worked in the town I was born in I often used to run into patients, particularly elderly patients, whose accents were completely impenetrable to people from other Scottish towns, let alone English and foreign graduates. I could communicate with them very easily, and could actually hear myself developing a broader local accent than I had ever used in "real life".
On one occasion I was working with an Egyptian registrar, anaesthetizing an elderly local woman, and I chatted to her reassuringly while we did what we needed to do. After she was asleep, the registrar turned to me and asked, "Doctor, what was that language you were speaking? Was it Gaelic?"
The business of aspirational accents and prestige accents is becoming much less common nowadays, though I know it persists among officers in the British armed forces. It used to be (back in the 50s) that one had to cultivate a Received Pronunciation accent in order to "get on in life". but RP is now a tiny minority accent in the UK, and viewed with distrust more often than respect. The only people who haven't noticed this are the RP speakers, who still write regularly to The Times, deploring the prevalence of "people with accents" reading the news and presenting television programmes. They seem blissfully unaware that they have an accent themselves, and a very odd and curiously impenetrable one at that.

Grant Hutchison

KaiYeves
2016-Dec-11, 06:36 PM
Many years ago, I had a business trip to the UK, where I found the accents largely more comprehensible than the more extreme ones in central Tennessee. One of the people I was working with invited me to dinner at his house. His wife was a human factors expert working with the British Army. Apparently, British people's accents are more complex than just regional: they depend on class (d'oh), profession, and school. She told a story of a young officer with whom she worked who spoke with his regional accent when he wasn't officering, but with a rather specific Royal-Army-officer-from-Sandhurst accent when he was on duty. The two accents were quite distinct.

I've seen (well, heard) the same thing with some American minority groups: different accent and speech patterns with friends and family vs the wider public.
It's a form of code-switching: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching

Solfe
2016-Dec-12, 01:20 AM
We have a traffic circle in East Aurora where Main Street connects to 28 and 20A. Locals know the different between "Twentah" and "Twentaey", visitors do not.

swampyankee
2016-Dec-12, 01:31 AM
It's always people who aren't in your in group that have accents, and frequently accents are deliberately maintained or acquired to mark one into or out of a particular group.

Solfe
2016-Dec-12, 03:28 AM
It's always people who aren't in your in group that have accents, and frequently accents are deliberately maintained or acquired to mark one into or out of a particular group.

I am told that I have a strange accent, one that no I know has. I spoke Italian as a child, my mom is from Tennessee, and I live close to the Canadian border.

I am inclined to say things like chifforobe, befuddle, agone, dang, cattycorner, and have a Canadian "sorey", all with a not quiet-Buffalo-accent. Buffalo seemingly has a "non-accent" as an accent, with a few exceptions which are very regional.

"A" and "8" sound awfully close to me. I also hear a lot of "anywheres" and "nowheres"* (with the s), which people strenuously object to, even when they are the one that said it.

*Edit - There is a strange quirk of Buffalo that may explain the "anwheres". We elevate things that shouldn't be: "The I-90" instead of "I-90". However, we don't say "The Main Street" unless we mean "it is the main street". We also possessify things that aren't possessions. "I am going to Federal's". Federal used to be a chain of butcher shops, but we act like there is a Mr. and Mrs. Federal that owns a chain of butcher shops.

Trebuchet
2016-Dec-12, 05:43 PM
There was a machine shop foreman at on of my employers who was nearly unintelligible. I thought perhaps he was German, but he turned out to be from Yorkshire.

captain swoop
2016-Dec-12, 10:16 PM
English accents and dialects are getting softened, probably by TV and travel.
In my corner of North Yorkshire lots of words I used as a kid have dropped out of use.
We still had a lot old Norse words still in use.
lunch was 'bait', children were 'bairns', a fly was a 'kleg', a girlfriend was a 'gimmer', rubbish was 'ket', stupid was 'sackless'
can think of loads of others beck, mswk, gilt, slape, smoot, wath, beck, laup and brent come straight to mind.
There were other archaic terms as well, thee, thy, thou and similar, especially up in the villages 'ower't mawer tup' Glaisedale, Goathland, Hutton le Hole, Castleton, Egton and such places or down the coast in Staithes, Runswick, Whitby and Robin Hoods Bay etc.
Canon Atkinson in his 1868 'A Glossary of the Dialect of Cleveland' records that the inhabitants of the coastal villages could understand and be understood by the crews of Danish ships visiting the ports.
Half the kids I speak to these days sound more like characters from Coronation Street or Eastenders.