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KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 06:15 PM
Life sounds to consist of a real part and an imaginary part. So life, like complex numbers, seems to have a complex factor that defines the stability of every human and perhaps animals. I hope every one could conceive the imaginary part so that i won't explain it further for the moment. How could we define this complex factor and determine the stability criteria for it?

grant hutchison
2017-Mar-14, 06:17 PM
No, that makes no sense to me.

Grant Hutchison

Noclevername
2017-Mar-14, 06:31 PM
I don't understand the question.

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 06:46 PM
From a social point of view of life, I imagine there are 3 kinds of societies, 1-stable, 2-semi stable, 3-unstable all depending on the stability in behaviour of their humans.

Noclevername
2017-Mar-14, 06:48 PM
What do you mean by "stable"?

What do you mean by an "imaginary part" of life?

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 06:55 PM
1- stable social life promotes.
2- semi stable social life oscillates.
3- unstable social life gradually degrades.

PetersCreek
2017-Mar-14, 07:00 PM
You still aren't making yourself clear but the question I have is, does this really fit the Science & Technology forum? If it does, please get to the point and make it understandable.

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 07:04 PM
What do you mean by "stable"?

What do you mean by an "imaginary part" of life?

I think naturalistic ideas in 18th century paved the way for a much more realistic industrial societies. They seem they reduced imaginary part and thought more realistic and i think they created highly developed countries, though some people may think they have gone away from reality, but i think they have based their society upon reality with optimum imaginary part.

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 07:20 PM
You still aren't making yourself clear but the question I have is, does this really fit the Science & Technology forum? If it does, please get to the point and make it understandable.

Yes very good point. I'm looking for a scientific definition for life stability, because philosophy or supernaturalism seem to have failed in this context. Could science and technology determine a much more realistic and stable life for us. I have found that social life based upon scientific facts with less imaginary proposals are much more stable. Now if true could this be defined by a complex factor?

Swift
2017-Mar-14, 08:00 PM
Life sounds to consist of a real part and an imaginary part.
I'm going to guess, but by "imaginary part" do you mean the spiritual or religious parts of human beliefs and ideas, the non-physical/measurable aspects; versus the "real part" is that part of human knowledge accessible to measurement and science?

swampyankee
2017-Mar-14, 08:19 PM
...or by "imaginary part" do you mean that a society's behavior can be expressed in some sort of differential equation which, like that for damped harmonic motion, has a real and imaginary part to its solution? If so, I don't think that the underlying behaviors of society are understood well enough or quantifiable enough to make a set of differential equations possible.

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 08:41 PM
I'm going to guess, but by "imaginary part" do you mean the spiritual or religious parts of human beliefs and ideas, the non-physical/measurable aspects; versus the "real part" is that part of human knowledge accessible to measurement and science?

Beliefs exist that spiritual ideas or spiritual societies that find the current existing science and technology unrealistic and much away from stability, could bring much more stable human life. But experience has shown that from more than 10% spiritual ideas or non spiritual ideas(non believers), can destabilize human life. On the contrary, removing this amount for a 100% scientific and technological humans, could destabilize human life just as well.the latter could be, for example, too much genetic.......that may even destroy human kind, or robotic reality could endanger life and bring instability.

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-14, 08:59 PM
...or by "imaginary part" do you mean that a society's behavior can be expressed in some sort of differential equation which, like that for damped harmonic motion, has a real and imaginary part to its solution? If so, I don't think that the underlying behaviors of society are understood well enough or quantifiable enough to make a set of differential equations possible.

But to my experience that could be very useful, for those who try to substantially increase the imaginary part(non measureable part as Swift referred to), to realize that it is now quantifiable to define the real part and the imaginary part, however it seems to be defined as a complex factor with a 2nd order differential equation consisting of the actual present amount of real and imaginary part, plus the rate at which these are changing, plus the accelerating or decelerating rates.

Solfe
2017-Mar-14, 10:16 PM
Beliefs exist that spiritual ideas or spiritual societies that find the current existing science and technology unrealistic and much away from stability, could bring much more stable human life. But experience has shown that from more than 10% spiritual ideas or non spiritual ideas(non believers), can destabilize human life. On the contrary, removing this amount for a 100% scientific and technological humans, could destabilize human life just as well.the latter could be, for example, too much genetic.......that may even destroy human kind, or robotic reality could endanger life and bring instability.

Where are you getting those numbers from? And how do you define "destabilize"?

Noclevername
2017-Mar-14, 11:49 PM
1- stable social life promotes.
2- semi stable social life oscillates.
3- unstable social life gradually degrades.

What is being promoted or degraded?

Jens
2017-Mar-15, 12:12 AM
I'm sort of echoing other posts, but does "stability" perhaps mean having a stable job and family, for example, and living in the same place for a long time?

wd40
2017-Mar-15, 12:19 AM
Neanderthal Man is believed to have believed in an Afterlife. Was there ever a humanoid in the last 300,000 years who didn't have a 'spiritual' or an 'ism' component in his thought process?

Jens
2017-Mar-15, 01:14 AM
Neanderthal Man is believed to have believed in an Afterlife. Was there ever a humanoid in the last 300,000 years who didn't have a 'spiritual' or an 'ism' component in his thought process?

At least one! (I don't believe in an afterlife).

Swift
2017-Mar-15, 02:46 AM
KhashayarShatti
My best guess is that this entire thread is not an appropriate topic for CQ, but what you are saying is not clear. I don't know if this a language problem or what, but you need to clarify what you are talking about in your next post, or this thread is closed.

And wd40, this thread is confusing enough without dragging it off in a different direction. Knock it off.

Ara Pacis
2017-Mar-15, 06:35 AM
I think he's talking about sociology. I'm not sure if the imaginary part has to be about religion per se (e.g. spirituality or theology that is imaginary in the sense of non-empirical), but instead might consist of shared cultural memes, values or shibboleths that bind a society together. I dunno if this has to be a conversation about religion and politics, although sociology often does in the abstract.

Maybe he's trying to compare former theories of the pseudo-mathematical certainty of Enlightenment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) ideas like Utilitarianism vs. the pseudo-science of Social Darwinism and Modernism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism) vs. the relativism of Post-Modernism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism). These are often referred to in the literature as "meta-narratives" to avoid conflating the ideas with the technical meaning of theory in the hard sciences. There's also a lot of cross-pollination with Communications Theory, since Post-modernism is an art movement

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-15, 07:48 AM
KhashayarShatti
My best guess is that this entire thread is not an appropriate topic for CQ, but what you are saying is not clear. I don't know if this a language problem or what, but you need to clarify what you are talking about in your next post, or this thread is closed.

And wd40, this thread is confusing enough without dragging it off in a different direction. Knock it off.

I was about to reply to every post but i must apologize to every one. The spirituality part is enough to discuss. The main objective is the imaginary part consisting of virtual reality that sounds to be a scientific progress while having a non real sense. Social blogs to my experience seem to affect real part of life to a large extent. To what extent, tweet, Skype, Telegram, Viber.....could these have stability factor?
The effect is amazing and seem to have stability parameters. Both real information and false information have partial effect.
I think they are stabilisers of imaginary part. Am i correct? Could too much of it destabilise human life.

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-15, 08:43 AM
Let me give an example. Imagine a society has a very bad traffic system in which when they drive their cars they don't respect each others rights and it is no more controllable. The real part, in this case, has caused instability. Now could a kind of imaginary part act as an stabilising agent? Obviously meant to act in harmony with the scientific and the engineering of the traffic system.
For the attention of those who are religeous i must say that i'm absolutely sure that religious spiritually in general has absolutely no stabilising effect according to my experiences.

Noclevername
2017-Mar-15, 09:21 AM
1- stable social life promotes.
2- semi stable social life oscillates.
3- unstable social life gradually degrades.

Can you please clarify what you mean?

KhashayarShatti
2017-Mar-15, 09:49 AM
Can you please clarify what you mean?

Life and social community can promote. Stable economy, Stable transport, Stable environmental effects.....perhaps I can give a very good reference for stability of design and developments within a society:that is MIL-HDBK-46855 about human engineering. You can download it from everyspec site.
This handbook makes designs more stable.
How you could apply it with success i don't know. What criteria drives a society to apply it?
I might be wrong but as a general rule i thought there bound to be an out of phase element similar to a complex number to act out of phase with the real part to introduce stability into the system.

Solfe
2017-Mar-15, 11:37 AM
Life and social community can promote. Stable economy, Stable transport, Stable environmental effects.....perhaps I can give a very good reference for stability of design and developments within a society:that is MIL-HDBK-46855 about human engineering. You can download it from everyspec site.
This handbook makes designs more stable.
How you could apply it with success i don't know. What criteria drives a society to apply it?
I might be wrong but as a general rule i thought there bound to be an out of phase element similar to a complex number to act out of phase with the real part to introduce stability into the system.

That document is 266 pages long. The goal of human engineering devices in the military is to reduce personal skill and training to a minimum. It is more about training issues than anything else. It appears to be all about applying a single method of analysis to projects, not people.

I actually had the job from Office Space, where I had to translate Engineer to Human and back again. I cannot tell how many weird conversations I have had in that job:

Me: The consumer reported that they pressed the power button and nothing happened. So they pressed it again. The Magic Blue Smoke came out of the toy and it stopped working.
Engineer: Pressing the power button has a slight delay in responsiveness, so that the user doesn't press the power button twice.
Me: Ah... when you press the power button and nothing happens, people press it again because they think nothing happened.
Engineer: Nothing happens when you press it once, because of the delay. The delay was built in so no one would press the button twice.
Me: The delay is causing people to press the button twice.
Engineer: Why? Don't they know pressing the button twice causes the item to fail?
Me: No. How would they know that?
Engineer: The delay...

Noclevername
2017-Mar-15, 02:25 PM
Life and social community can promote.

But what does it promote?

Swift
2017-Mar-15, 03:12 PM
OK, I'm still unclear what the heck this thread is about, but Science & Technology doesn't seem the place for it. Moved to OTB.

Ara Pacis
2017-Mar-16, 02:08 AM
Let me give an example. Imagine a society has a very bad traffic system in which when they drive their cars they don't respect each others rights and it is no more controllable. The real part, in this case, has caused instability. Now could a kind of imaginary part act as an stabilising agent? Obviously meant to act in harmony with the scientific and the engineering of the traffic system.
For the attention of those who are religeous i must say that i'm absolutely sure that religious spiritually in general has absolutely no stabilising effect according to my experiences.

Are you referring to traffic laws in some countries, like which side of the road to drive on and who has right of way? It can cause as many problems as it fixes. People use these laws to justify bad behavior such as negligence that causes collisions and road rage, both of which are due to excursions from expectation. Other cultures seem to operate without traffic laws, and people have to depend on defensive driving and still manage. Whether they have road rage, I don't know, but someone else might.

Solfe
2017-Mar-16, 02:30 AM
Whether they have road rage, I don't know, but someone else might.

Oh, I don't have "road rage". I'd characterize it as "simmering flames". :)

I drive very conservatively. This used to be a point of contention with my wife as she had a lead foot and thought all signs were optional. She would go crazy in the passenger seat. Then one day, on an off road track, I did a flip on my motorcycle. She was kind of impressed, so I really cut loose and went nuts. That ended all of the complaints. I can drive like a nut, but when you put the wife and kids in the car, forget it. Not going to happen.