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sohvan
2005-Feb-21, 09:23 PM
http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/press_releases/text.asp?pid=639

I noticed this press release of earth emitting shorts blasts of gamma rays into space. Are these strong enough to be dangerous to astronauts or satellites? Could some other planet or moon in our solar system have similar phenomena?

Jpax2003
2005-Feb-21, 10:22 PM
Awsome :o

But no mention of astronaut hazards in LEO.

John Kierein
2005-Feb-21, 10:33 PM
http://elf.gi.alaska.edu/

We worried that one of these could have hit the Shuttle's tethered satellite and caused it burn up and break. The idea was that maybe this conductive tether acted like a lightning rod. But when we looked we didn't find any thunderstorms particularly nearby.

Jerry
2005-Feb-25, 03:57 AM
TGFs is still unknown, but scientists believe they're caused by the build-up of electrical charge at the tops of thunderclouds.

So much for scientific explanations. Since mainstream physics is pretty much at a loss for why charges build up at the top of thunderheads, this is a little like saying the earth rests on the back of a turtle, that rests on the back of another turtle...

kg034
2005-Feb-25, 08:43 AM
TGFs is still unknown, but scientists believe they're caused by the build-up of electrical charge at the tops of thunderclouds.

So much for scientific explanations. Since mainstream physics is pretty much at a loss for why charges build up at the top of thunderheads, this is a little like saying the earth rests on the back of a turtle, that rests on the back of another turtle...

Yes, we all should resort to more handwaiving!....:D
seriously, energy concentration is not an unknown phenomenon in physics. Serious physicists are studying such phenomena.

I'm not an expert on much, but do know that, for example, one can accelerate electrons to 10%c just by a wave of your hand....an energy increase factor of about 10^6. Other phenonema with an even larger factor of energy focusing also occur...[/i]

Disinfo Agent
2005-Feb-25, 11:13 AM
"The energies we see are as high as those of gamma rays emitted from black holes and neutron stars," said David Smith, an assistant professor of physics at UC Santa Cruz and author of a scientific paper on this topic.
How odd... :-?

frogesque
2005-Feb-25, 11:31 AM
TGFs is still unknown, but scientists believe they're caused by the build-up of electrical charge at the tops of thunderclouds.

So much for scientific explanations. Since mainstream physics is pretty much at a loss for why charges build up at the top of thunderheads, this is a little like saying the earth rests on the back of a turtle, that rests on the back of another turtle...

Tsk! Get it right please :wink:


In a distant and second-hand set of dimensions, in an astral plane that was never meant to fly, the curling star-mists waver and part...
See...
Great A'Tuin the turtle comes, swimming slowly through the interstellar gulf, hydrogen frost on his ponderous limbs, his huge and ancient shell pocked with meteor craters. Through sea-sized eyes that are crusted with rheum and asteroid dust He stares fixedly at the Destination.
In a brain bigger than a city, with geological slowness, He thinks only of the Weight.
Most of the weight is of course accounted for by Berilia, Tubul, Great T'Phon and Jerakeen, the four giant elephants upon whose broad and star-tanned shoulders the disc of the World rests, garlanded by the long waterfall at its vast circumference and domed by the baby-blue vault of Heaven.

Terry Pratchet: The Colour of Magic, 1983

Another to contemplate


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Skakespeare: Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)

Artists and writers have always imagined otherworlds where a greater truth sometimes lay hidden beneath the words, music or visuals. It makes for great art, however it dosen't follow that it makes for great science.

The research at Santa Cruz is ongoing, papers will be written, the results will be reviewed, and, if accepted, they will be published. Sprites, blue jets and now gamma ray blasts are relatively newly discovered phenomena and no one should be jumping up and down with wild statements. Until the research has been properly analyized and reviewed it is just speculation.

George
2005-Feb-25, 02:25 PM
Have we detected gamma rays coming from other planets (which have "thunder storms")?

frogesque
2005-Feb-25, 03:21 PM
Have we detected gamma rays coming from other planets (which have "thunder storms")?

I can't find anything definitive on this (only a woo site that rekons they can only be caused by fusion) but I see no reason why there shouldn't be gamma rays emitted by Saturn and Jupiter lightning storms. They are after all only high energy photons and there are intense discharges and dense magnetic fields on both. I would imagine there is plenty of scope there for particles to be accelerated, colide and give off gamma rays.

I stress this is conjecture though and I don't know if they have been detected.

George
2005-Feb-25, 04:02 PM
Have we detected gamma rays coming from other planets (which have "thunder storms")?

I can't find anything definitive on this (only a woo site that rekons they can only be caused by fusion) but I see no reason why there shouldn't be gamma rays emitted by Saturn and Jupiter lightning storms. They are after all only high energy photons and there are intense discharges and dense magnetic fields on both. I would imagine there is plenty of scope there for particles to be accelerated, colide and give off gamma rays.

I stress this is conjecture though and I don't know if they have been detected.
Thanks. I tried a little googling and found nothing of merit. This surprises me. Jupiter is quite active in electromagnetic issues. IIRC, 100 trillion watts pours through Io due to field interaction.

Grey
2005-Feb-25, 04:53 PM
Thanks. I tried a little googling and found nothing of merit. This surprises me. Jupiter is quite active in electromagnetic issues. IIRC, 100 trillion watts pours through Io due to field interaction.
I expect that these are relatively weak bursts, though, and we can detect them on Earth because the satellite is quite close to them. Jupiter and Saturn are much farther away.

tracer
2005-Feb-25, 07:56 PM
Curious ... since these blasts can come from any place on Earth, would a gamma-ray observatory satellite detect them as coming from arbitrary directions in space? Could these be the sources of the "gamma ray bursters" we've been seeing for decades now, and not something exotic and powerful like hypernovae?

George
2005-Feb-25, 08:28 PM
I don't suppose there is any Compton Effect possibility worth considering which might explain this perplexity? (Not that I know much about it to begine with. :-? )

DougF
2005-Mar-01, 04:01 PM
That was me - apologies to everyone - I had Taco Bell for lunch.
#-o

pghnative
2005-Mar-01, 05:19 PM
BTW, a belated welcome to DougF =D> =D>

Always good to see another member of the 'Burgh join our little family. We usually try to welcome people on their first post (yours was December), but we somehow missed it --- probably since you posted in that riotous thread about the bee, the meteor and the lamppost. (There were a lot of first time posters in that thread, and we all kind of lost our manners.)


Curious ... since these blasts can come from any place on Earth, would a gamma-ray observatory satellite detect them as coming from arbitrary directions in space? Could these be the sources of the "gamma ray bursters" we've been seeing for decades now, and not something exotic and powerful like hypernovae?
If it was earth generated, then the satellite wouldn't detect them as coming from "arbitrary" directions --- the satellite would need to be pointed at earth to see them.

Doodler
2005-Mar-01, 10:04 PM
One of the features of the new Swift satellite is the ability to rapidly turn and aim at a GRB from space, these bursts are quite directional.

It would be interesting to see if Swift could detect a planetary gamma event.