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Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-23, 03:34 PM
Hello all,

We have started a BABB team for the distributed computing project Einstein@Home (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu).

Einstein@home is a program that uses your computer's idle time to search for spinning neutron stars (also called pulsars) using data from the LIGO and GEO gravitational wave detectors. Einstein@home is a World Year of Physics 2005 project ...

The BABB team has been very successful, ranking in the Top 40 out of over 2200 teams. (See sig for current place.)

Don't ever feel you have to read this whole long thread! In fact, the discussion is now going on in Klausnh's thread (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=464580#464580), over in General Astronomy.

Currently, that's a shorter thread than this one, but no need to read it first either; just post any questions there, before or after joining the team; no need to search first. Team members are friendly and will answer your questions in a flame-free manner. :D

To join the project, visit the E@H Getting Started (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/intro.php) page, or just use the two links below:

It's easy to participate in Einstein@Home:

* Create an account. Go to the Create account page (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/create_account_form.php) and fill out the form. You will receive an email containing your account ID (a long random string). Save this email.

* Download and install BOINC: Go to the download page (http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php), download the BOINC software for your type of computer, install it, and run it. You will be asked to enter the project URL (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/) and your account ID.

That's it!

The phrase "You will be asked..." above means "In the BOINC Manager program, click the Projects tab and click Attach to new project... and then enter URL and ID." But it's still really easy.

It's probably best not to select BOINC as your default screensaver at the installation. E@H's 3-D graphics do not play nice with BOINC; especially with ATI graphics cards.

After you are running and crunching, join the BABB team here (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/team_display.php?teamid=1064); just click "Join."

You can go to the Your Account link on the E@H homepage to set up your preferences, but the defaults usually work fine.

There are a lot of add-ons, stat sites, and forums connected with the BOINC and Einstein@Home projects, so if you ever have any questions, especially about the BABB team, it's much easier just to post in Klausnh's thread (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=464580#464580) -- that's what it is for. :)

Thanks to the Bad Astronomer for tolerating, and indeed participating in (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/view_profile.php?userid=39900), this project; to Quantum_Raider who was the first to post on the BABB forums about E@H; to Klausnh for kickstarting us; and to everyone who helped the team and to all those who have already, or will soon, join this stellar project. =D> :D

Color text are quotes from Einstein@Home; this whole page heavily edited multiple times. :)

mid
2005-Feb-23, 03:44 PM
I was running Climateprediction.net's client a while back, before I had to stop - it caused too many problems on my machine, as it gobbled memory for breakfast. I never actually ran it long enough to return a work unit even, despite sticking with it for a month or so, either. Is this much better? Seti@home never used to be much of a problem.

Tensor
2005-Feb-23, 03:50 PM
hehehehehe, I joined last night Ken.

tlbs101
2005-Feb-23, 04:40 PM
I just joined the BABB team, also.

Andromeda321
2005-Feb-23, 09:40 PM
So did I! 8)

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-23, 10:55 PM
Can I run this and SETI at the same time?

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-23, 11:01 PM
Great. So if someone from this board actually does detect a gravitational wave, it'll be tagged as Bad Astronomy? :o

gethen
2005-Feb-23, 11:59 PM
I was kind of saving my home computer for my son's galactic cluster search sometime in the future, but this looks pretty worthwhile in the meantime. I'll give it a look.

aurora
2005-Feb-24, 12:10 AM
I joined, but I assume the team stats will not get updated until the next time my PC uploads a completed file?

Wolverine
2005-Feb-24, 01:22 AM
I'm in too.

tmosher
2005-Feb-24, 01:33 AM
I can't even get them to send me the account activation codes. I think that verizon's email system blocks them.

Quantum_Raider
2005-Feb-24, 02:27 AM
I've signed up :)

It's now running along side SETI & UD (http://www.grid.org)

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-24, 02:27 AM
Great. So if someone from this board actually does detect a gravitational wave, it'll be tagged as Bad Astronomy? :o

We sneakily crafted the name (BABB) so this board gets the credit, that is, looks bad, not you! :D . But if people do consider it as good astronomy, we'll be sure you get the credit. <sucking up noise> :) And I think LIGO will get credit for the gravity wave; we're just looking for pulsars in their data. Could be wrong there, but either way it's real science: real bad science. :wink:

aurora---

By now I see you are in the list and reporting WUs! :) :D

Actually on my box BOINC (under Windows) does a strange thing --- when it finishes a WU, it uploads the data, but does not report it to the server for credit until you issue the update command, which, unhelpfully, is not on the main menu. You have to click the "Projects" tab, Right-click "Einstein@Home" & click update. The "Messages" tab will then show a couple lines ending "Scheduler RPC.... succeeded," that tells you credit has been applied for.

There still are delays until the WU is confirmed, as described in the E@H "Getting Started" page, and even more delays until the team data gets posted. All typical for Distributed Computing Projects.

However, your credit is automatically uploaded the next time BOINC downloads a fresh WU, so there is no need actually to do the above update process if you set preferences to keep no more than 2 WUs on your machine. For example, my WUs take about 10 hours, and I have the General Preference "Connect to network about every ..." set to .3 days. This fetches one new WU about an hour after the latest-but-one is uploaded, and so credit is updated pretty quickly.

But this setting is touchy, I tried a .1 day connect & it download 6 or 7 WUs at once, meaning it would not report automatically again until almost all 6 were done.

Of course, if you're on dial-up, you want a large number of WU's on your box, so you won't run out while off line, so you'll probably want to do the Update routine every time you dial in.

Sorry so complicated.


zebo-the fat---


Can I run this and SETI at the same time?

If you're running classic SETI (the non-BOINC version) I think you can, but both programs must compete for your spare processor time, and there can be problems. But seti has a version for BOINC (indeed they will soon move all seti to BOINC,) and running 2 or more projects at once is what BOINC is made for.

Just do the steps outlined in the first post: download boinc, attach Einstein@Home. Then got to the BOINC main page, http://boinc.berkeley.edu/ , and click on the setii@home project. Then you activate or create an account just like for E@H and attach seti to Boinc similarly. Then go to the project Preferences page for either E@H or seti and set the "Resource share" you want for it. If you set, say 75 for E@H, seti will automatically get 25%.

Then in your Boinc client issue the update command as in the reply to aurora (right-clicking on the project where you just set the resource share) and your updated preferences should be applied.

Whew, Sorry so complicated, again. :)

mid---


I was running Climateprediction.net's client a while back, before I had to stop - it caused too many problems on my machine, as it gobbled memory for breakfast. I never actually ran it long enough to return a work unit even, despite sticking with it for a month or so, either. Is this much better? Seti@home never used to be much of a problem.

I too ran Climate Prediction for a time, and work units took IIRC, 3 months. These E@H WUs take, like I say 10 hours on my 2.4Ghz box, so much quicker; I've had no erroneous results or memory problems; though I'm probably not enough of an expert to know a leak if I saw it. :)

Incidentally, climateprediction.net is also now running under BOINC, so perhaps it is more stable now, but even sharing 50% with E@H their WUs would take a long time for sure. But I think they do dole out credit proportionally to time worked on all projects, so you don't have to wait for a CPDN WU to finish to be rewarded.


Many thanks to you above and also to Tensor, tlbs101,
Andromeda321, and our other members for joining and everyone else for listening to me rattle on. Let me know what needs clarification.

Edit: Thanks also to Wolverine and Quantum_Raider, who posted as I was typing this. :)


I can't even get them to send me the account activation codes. I think that verizon's email system blocks them.

Does Verizon have a white list you can put their address on? I'll try to post over on the E@H board and see if they have a solution. May be a day or two..

[end edit]

We are up to # 609 now, up from 700 something yesterday. As explained in Quantum_Raider's post linked above, you can use the url http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/top_teams.php?sort_by=total_credit&offset=600 , to see where we stand, suitably changing the 600 (in steps of 20) as we move ever upward. It appears my sig might eventually show the proper rank as well.

EvilBob
2005-Feb-24, 03:29 AM
I've joined! It worked fine initially, but after rebooting, I can't get it to reconnect. I'm behind a proxy server, but the proxy server settings are all greyed out. I am using the version 4.23 recommended for http servers.... Anyone got any ideas?

:-k

EvilBob
2005-Feb-24, 04:01 AM
Never mind. Another reboot and it's working again... who knows?

tmosher
2005-Feb-24, 04:06 AM
Anyone have a average elapsed time for execution of one set of data?

I think I've been cursed by AMD and it's slow performance (i.e., it took twice as long to process SETI packets as an equivalent Intel processor).

So far...roughly one hour for 9% completion. I'll leave it alone overnight and see how long it takes.

mickal555
2005-Feb-24, 08:08 AM
OK I'm joining....
You mentioned somthing about a
I don't have web space, so there won't be a team website; no great loss?

I can make a team website if you like. I got some space.
:D

:D


:D

Fram
2005-Feb-24, 09:39 AM
I joined the project and the Babb team! No work done yet though, I hope it works out allright.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-24, 11:13 AM
I can make a team website if you like. I got some space.
:D

That'd be great! :) I have no clue about web design, or even truth to tell, what to put on it. By the time people get to the E@H BABB team page, they probably have alredy joined E@H and so most installation questions would be moot, and they're right next to the "Join" button, so they don't need help with that either.

But we could put in some more explanation about Bad Astronomy & this forum; why it's not really bad, etc. And if you or someone knows how to mine XML, you could maybe have the current team position and nearest competitors automatically listed, though I'm sure with all the stats sites out there this has been done. Maybe a map with members' locations (this is public on the team page.)

So anyway, having pushed all the burden off on you, if you're still willing, go for it! :) Just post here with the url when it's up and I'll add it to the team page.


Anyone have a average elapsed time for execution of one set of data?

I think I've been cursed by AMD and it's slow performance (i.e., it took twice as long to process SETI packets as an equivalent Intel processor).

So far...roughly one hour for 9% completion. I'll leave it alone overnight and see how long it takes.

Glad you got it running! :) My box is an Intel at 2.4Ghz, with a tiny overclocking to 2.483 Ghz, when it's not busy, E@H gets 97-98% of processor time, and my WUs take between 9.5 and 10 hours, so one hour for 9% completion sounds about right. Course it depends on the rated speed of your box and the conversion between how AMD measures a Ghz and how Intel does. All of which is beyond me. :)

As it happens, I did post over at E@H about maybe Verizon blocking their email, and got this reply from Bruce Allen, modestly described as

Forum moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project scientist


I've asked our Network people to contact Verizon and ask to have einstein white-listed. This may take a day or so.

Cheers,
Bruce

It's great to have that kind of quick service from the top. <thumbs up>


Welcome to the team Fram and EvilBob . :)

We're up to #563 ( in sig!) now, with 16 members.

This will only mean something to those who read the E@H thread over on GA, but that's as many members as Team Art Bell, though still behind them on total credit.

I've corrected the team page to say that BABB is "International," this was my oversight in accepting the default which is, as always, USA. :oops:

mid
2005-Feb-24, 11:27 AM
Thanks Ken - I'll get this set up at home soon, then. 10 hours sounds far more sensible for a work unit.

However, I switch off my home box when it's not doing anything, and most of what it does do while turned on is gobble CPU like it's going out of fashion (renders, a/v encoding, games) so how much they'll get from me is another question.

mickal555
2005-Feb-24, 11:33 AM
Should I use the BABB logo?

I don't thinkI should Cause I think its copyright, I think I'll wait to see what the BA has to say on the idea, cause BABB is his thing, and I dunno, cause he said somthing about not using the Bad astronomy name to make a military.....

But yeah if all's clear I'll do it
I'll put it as a page for my main site, and have a direct navigation link to it on my navigation bar. Mabee that will draw more members?

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-24, 11:59 AM
Should I use the BABB logo?

I agree we definitely shouldn't. I hate to bother the BA (me, writing to a real working astronomer!) but I'll try to get up the courage to send him a PM about logos.

mickal555
2005-Feb-24, 12:05 PM
Should I use the BABB logo?

I agree we definitely shouldn't. I hate to bother the BA (me, writing to a real working astronomer!) but I'll try to get up the courage to send him a PM about logos.
I'm woundering even about the BABB name.....

I've never sent a pm to the BA.... (I too don't want to bother him)
I remember when I first saw him in paltalk.....
I was so starstuck, he even said my name! :D
8)

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-24, 03:21 PM
I tried to move my "old" seti to ths BOINC system but they have a problem with their database and nothing is working yet :(

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-24, 10:00 PM
Hello again,


Thanks Ken - I'll get this set up at home soon, then. 10 hours sounds far more sensible for a work unit.

However, I switch off my home box when it's not doing anything, and most of what it does do while turned on is gobble CPU like it's going out of fashion (renders, a/v encoding, games) so how much they'll get from me is another question.

The one thing you might watch with such a set up is the report deadline (next to last field in the "Work" tab.) WUs need to be done in about 7 days to count. Ones DLed today for me have a deadline of 3 March. Hope it works out.


I tried to move my "old" seti to ths BOINC system but they have a problem with their database and nothing is working yet :(

I can't help with that, but it is one problem BOINC will have to resolve, as they plan eventually to move all of Seti to BOINC.

Meantime, Quantum_Raider reports that he has classic seti and BOINC coexisting:


I've signed up :)

It's now running along side SETI & UD (http://www.grid.org)

Quite how he manages the resource share I don't know, but it's great it can be done.




I'm wondering even about the BABB name.....

You're a bit prescient, mickal555. As it happens the BA's reply to my PM indicated he was in fact OK with the BABB name and the idea of the team, and supports Einstein@Home, though he quite rightly noted I should have asked his approval beforehand. This was my ba..., I mean, it was entirely my fault. :oops: #-o

As far as the website goes, whenever you get a prototype up, and before you link to it in any way, PM the url to me and/or the BA so he can check it out.

Thinking out loud again, since this site would be for team members, who are already likely heavy users of this board, maybe it doesn't need to promote or explain the Bad Astronomy idea, contrary to what I said above. All it needs to be is a site for team info that members can't get here, or once this thread drops off. But again, that's up to you, subject to BA approval. :)

On a positive note, E@H has revamped its message board, here (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_index.php). It's not phbBB, but there are now logical sections, including the very chic Cafe Einstein.

aurora
2005-Feb-25, 12:01 AM
We're up to #563 ( in sig!) now, with 16 members.



As of a few minutes ago, we had jumped all the way up to #411!

And since we have more members than the teams just ahead of us, I expect we'll move up quite a few more places in the next few days.

Paul

Nicolas
2005-Feb-25, 12:26 AM
I joined! I might still need to tweak things in order to get it to work more than now (processor usage).

George
2005-Feb-25, 12:26 AM
Now 18 members strong. :)

tmosher
2005-Feb-25, 12:51 AM
I can't even get them to send me the account activation codes. I think that verizon's email system blocks them.

Does Verizon have a white list you can put their address on? I'll try to post over on the E@H board and see if they have a solution. May be a day or two..

Verizon finally let the email through - it had Sunday's date on it - a four day delay.

However, I signed up through my other email address and joined the BABB group. Now I just have to see why it is taking so long to process.

10 hours = 10%???

Quantum_Raider
2005-Feb-25, 02:27 AM
Meantime, Quantum_Raider reports that he has classic seti and BOINC coexisting:


I've signed up :)

It's now running along side SETI & UD (http://www.grid.org)

Quite how he manages the resource share I don't know, but it's great it can be done.

On that machine I think it's a Cellery 2.8 and around 6-700meg ddr ram, it seems to crunch through the data fine (at least it hasn't done anything dramatic or showy yet ... like blowup).

scottmsg
2005-Feb-25, 05:10 AM
I just finished my first work unit. We're also up to 20 members now.

Fram
2005-Feb-25, 09:30 AM
It will take me some 20 hours of CPU time complete one WU... I'm at 62% of my first one now, so don't expect to much results from me. Oh well, every bit helps, I suupose :lol:

Fram
2005-Feb-25, 12:06 PM
By the way, there are only 42 teams with more members than us.
We are now at 324 on Avg, and 438 on Total. I guess the top hundred (certainly on total) shouldn't be to hard to reach...

George
2005-Feb-25, 02:37 PM
Hmmm. My computer does not appear to be crunching-out anything.

It seemed to be working fine last night. The "message" section indicates 8wu were accomplished, yet I see no credit.

What can I do to put this baby in gear? #-o

Nicholas_Bostaph
2005-Feb-25, 04:00 PM
I just joined up last night and set my main computer (Athlon XP 2200+) on it. 8)

I'll try to get my other two computers, an Athlon XP 2400+ and a Thunderbird 850, on it over the next day or two, but they're only on a few hours a day.

Does anyone know if there is a way to get smaller work units? I know WUs expire, and I'm not sure if my 850, being on only a few hours a day, will be able to completely any given WU before it expires. Especially considering it takes my 2200+ a good 24 hours to completely one.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-25, 07:06 PM
Hmmm. My computer does not appear to be crunching-out anything.

It seemed to be working fine last night. The "message" section indicates 8wu were accomplished, yet I see no credit.

What can I do to put this baby in gear? #-o

Welcome, George! :) It does take a while for credit to first appear; especially since WUs must be confirmed by one other user. If your duplicate WU also got sent to a slower computer than yours, it may take even longer. :( You can issue the "Update Command," see my post of Wed @9:27 on first page for how to; if you have new credit issued, this will sometimes update as you watch.

In any case, please post back in a day or two if there's still no joy.

Another thing I like is BoincLogX (http://www.bjoernhenke.de/frame.htm?/boinclogx/index.en.htm), a logging program. AFAIK, only for Windows. :( It lists each WU you do, how long it took, whether it was an error or not, and keeps a running count of your credit, though this is no faster then the totals appear in the BOINC client. OTOH, it is one more thingy sitting in your tray, because it has to be running, I think, when you upload each WU; but I'm sure its resource use is low. The page I linked to seems old; mentioning seti and astropulse, but it works fine with E@H & should do fine with multiple BOINC projects. The screen shot, being for seti, is nothing like what you get with E@H: just a good old database.



Verizon finally let the email through - it had Sunday's date on it - a four day delay.

However, I signed up through my other email address and joined the BABB group. Now I just have to see why it is taking so long to process.

10 hours = 10%???

Again a few posts back, I mentioned that E@H staff had called Verizon to get itself added to their whitelist; good to see that resulted in the mail going thru. <thumbs up>

Sorry if I messed up the math earlier; for my box it's approx:

10 hours= 1 WU = 100% , so
1 hour = 10% :)



On that machine I think it's a Cellery 2.8 and around 6-700meg ddr ram, it seems to crunch through the data fine (at least it hasn't done anything dramatic or showy yet ... like blowup).

Q_R, Sorry my earlier meaning was unclear: I didn't mean "manage" the resources, rather more "allocate the share." When I tried to run two separate non-BOINC DC projects, one would end up taking all the spare cycles & the other would starve, no matter how I set process priorities in TaskManager. It's great that you have this solved, especially with 3 concurrent projects, no less.. :)

Also belated thanks for your great reply over in the other thread to tlbs101, who was getting an error window. S/he is now on the team. <thumbs up> I would have had no idea what to say.


I just joined up last night and set my main computer (Athlon XP 2200+) on it. 8)

I'll try to get my other two computers, an Athlon XP 2400+ and a Thunderbird 850, on it over the next day or two, but they're only on a few hours a day.

Does anyone know if there is a way to get smaller work units? I know WUs expire, and I'm not sure if my 850, being on only a few hours a day, will be able to completely any given WU before it expires. Especially considering it takes my 2200+ a good 24 hours to completely one.

I think WU size is pretty set in stone at 11MB & the kind of time frame we've been talking. Can't hurt to let the 850 loose on a WU to see. If it becomes clear that it won't meet the deadline for the WU, just detach from the project. There's possibly other BOINC projects that have a looser reporting deadline? LHC@home looks like a good physics project; they weren't yet reliably taking members last I checked. The time you give to another BOINC project wouldn't apply to our team, of course, but it would add to your personal total.

-------

Here's a much delayed reply to a question in the other thread, which I believe is soon to go the way of all threads:


I've already joined the Fark.com team, but I could be persuaded to switch teams (free agency?) if it means beating back those Art Bell-ers. It's found 26 hours of idle time to work in the past two days. Exciting!

Free agency is easy, though the reward for it is not as great as in baseball. :)
On the E@H site, just go to your account, scroll down to fark.com and click quit. Back out to the main page and click on teams; search for "ba" and that's us.

If you do change, you keep all your personal credit, and fark.com keeps, AFAIK, all the credit you earned for it, and new credit then accrues to us (All your credit are belong to us? - NOT :) ) And we have passed Art Bell in members; not yet in credit.

Welcome to Nicolas, scottmsg, and anyone else I've forgotten to greetz. :) And thanks for the running updates on our rise and rise! There's now 6 people listed on the team sheet reporting WUs, until as late as yesterday only 2 were showing, even though we had 16 members at that time. So hang in there folks, you will show up, "one of these days." :)

And if in fact you don't show up, be sure to post and we'll try to resolve whatever problem you have. And speaking for myself, just as seti theory says any alien species we encounter will likely be more advanced than us (and this is 100% true if the guy they encounter is Peter Jennings :D ), so it's true that you all are 99% likely to know more about computers, BOINC, Einstein and certainly astronomy, than I. Sorry if I come off as arrogant. What I do have is free time & am happy to look for answers.

The Einstein@Home site now has a little icon for your link bar. Is it a picture of a) Einstein or b) Home or c) Einstein at home?

Thanks again to everyone.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-25, 07:36 PM
Latest post from Bruce Allen at E@H:


It turns out that this was our fault, not Verizon's. We had set up einstein.phys.uwm.edu to SEND mail but not to RECEIVE it. That violates internet mail standards, and so some ISPs such as Verizon were blocking our mail. As soon as we enabled RECEIVE this unblocked a lot of queued mail. So hopefully 99% of people who have not gotten their account keys in the mail will now get them (or be able to get them, at least!).

I think this was our biggest screw-up in the Einstein@Home launch. I'm sorry for the problems it caused.

Cheers,
Bruce

This explains tmosher's problem, fer shure.

And since it works now, you can edit your address if you prefer the Verizon one. It's the tiny "Edit" link up by your current address, not the "Edit Account info" one you might expect.

Kristophe
2005-Feb-25, 08:00 PM
The Bell squad has 21 members, with 14 reporting, and they're currently ranked 42

The Planetary Society has 31 members, with 22 reporting, and htey're ranked 40

The Astronomy Magazine crew is looking at 38/13/95

NJ Night Sky is hovering near 7/6/136

Cambridge University is at 5/4/194

BABB is up to 20/6/243


Just some groups that looked intersting...

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-25, 08:35 PM
I joined, I assume it takes a while for my name to appear in the list, or did I do something wrong? (I just clicked on "join")

scottmsg
2005-Feb-25, 09:43 PM
Your name will appear once you get your first work unit done and receive credit for it.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-25, 09:49 PM
OK

aurora
2005-Feb-25, 11:13 PM
We're now up to #232 in recent average credit, and #347 in total credit.

Still climbing in both...

(If anyone is keeping score at home).

SarahMc
2005-Feb-25, 11:37 PM
I posted on the other thread in General Astronomy, I didn't realize this thread was running here. I joined the BABB team a while ago, so my stats should add a little to the effort.

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-25, 11:53 PM
Well, I just joined too.

Is there some way to keep BOINC from displaying in my taskbar? That's precious space on my desktop.

FWIW, I'm running on a Dell with XP, a 3.2 GHz chip, 1 Mb of RAM, and I'm keeping E@H to 5 Gb on my disk to be safe.

Wolverine
2005-Feb-26, 12:00 AM
Another thing I like is BoincLogX (http://www.bjoernhenke.de/frame.htm?/boinclogx/index.en.htm), a logging program.

Ahha! Thanks for the heads-up. And, no, I can't imagine it being a resource hog. ;)

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-26, 12:08 AM
Does anyone here run on multiple PC's? I have two at home I can use as well, and one is faster than my PC at work.

Wolverine
2005-Feb-26, 12:09 AM
Well, I just joined too.

Is there some way to keep BOINC from displaying in my taskbar? That's precious space on my desktop.

Woohoo! Nice to have the head honcho join the ranks. 8)

Taskbar or system tray? X out the BOINC window and it'll minimize to the systray.

SarahMc
2005-Feb-26, 12:37 AM
Does anyone here run on multiple PC's? I have two at home I can use as well, and one is faster than my PC at work.

I have Einstein@home running on two machines right now, and eventually may put it on another two - although those two machines aren't up 24/7 like the current two are. They're all on the same internal network though. I imagine you can run separate machines on different networks/IP ranges and have them all assigned to the same user ID. I did that before with SETI@home.

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-26, 01:04 AM
Is there some way to keep BOINC from displaying in my taskbar? That's precious space on my desktop.

OK, duh. I simply closed the app. After all, it's designed to run in the background. :oops:

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-26, 03:16 AM
Is there some way to keep BOINC from displaying in my taskbar? That's precious space on my desktop.

OK, duh. I simply closed the app. After all, it's designed to run in the background. :oops:

I also humbly welcome you, BA. :)

There is File|Hide which also kills the taskbar icon, but Wolverine's use of the "X" is quicker; thanks to him/her for letting me know about it. IMO, tray apps should never also appear in the taskbar (BoincLogX works this way) but BOINC has acted this way since beta days. I must have known about the "X" back then, but forgot. Yeah, that's it. :-?

5 GB should be plenty; even 1 GB ample. Early versions of E@H did keep finished WUs around & disk use grew, but that's been improved now. Bruce Allen suggested 160 MB or so.

Others can jump in here, since I have only one computer, but I think all you need to do to add a machine is install the BOINC client on it and click Settings|Attach to Project and enter the same long ID from your first email. Then if you go to the "Your Account" page toward the bottom, there's a link for "View Computers." I think this info will automatically appear (maybe after a day or two); I know my page has all the details for my one computer listed and I never entered them.

In fact, I just found out if you click each computer's ID from that "Your Computers" page, you get a complete rundown of your system & BOINC; including such things as "%of time client is on/connected/active." (In my case, 99.9524% for each, not to brag.)

Even more interesting, and I definitely should have known this one, the "Results View " link, right below "View Computers" on the "Your Account" page takes you to a detailed listing of all your results, including pending ones and ones currently in progress.

So people who are anxiously awaiting their first credit should go there and see what's up! :) Einstein@Home main page>>Your Account>>Results View, is all there is to it.

Incidentally, if you have more than one box, each one's Computer ID page has a similar "Results" link that breaks it down per box. Almost the same info as provided by BoincLogX, but on the web.

I'm really ashamed of myself for not knowing this earlier; would definitely have saved some of you some grief. :oops: And I am grateful to the BA's question about multiple computers for leading me to stumble upon it. New to me, but probably old hat to many of you.


I joined, I assume it takes a while for my name to appear in the list, or did I do something wrong? (I just clicked on "join")

scottmsg's answer is exactly right; I just want to make sure you got the email with activation code? You do have the BOINC program running? If so, you can do the Results View thing as above; let us know if no pending credit is there, or real credit soon.. Sorry if these are obvious, but these steps must come after clicking "join", and that wasn't clear to me from your post. :) You are definitely listed on the membership roll (now 25.)

Welcome Kristophe, SarahMc, and anyone I've forgotten.

SarahMc's sig is cool; the mundayweb site is the only one I've found that allows php code; and sets up the url for you. They also have sigs that list all your BOINC projects. (Sarah, the team info will definitely appear in the sig "one of these days.") They do seem way behind on the team credit; my sig is far behind our actual place.

Edit: underlined stuff in next paragraph:

I would like to make a personal request that we not use background graphics in these sigs. BOINC and seti sites have so many fancy sigs with elaborate graphics, (some of which are probably only possible with html code), that their forums look, IMO, very garish and must be very slow to load on dial-up.

I think colors look good, but the BA may have a different opinion, it's his board. (See how I learn? :)) I'd gladly take down my sig if he feels they cheapen the look and feel of the board. One reason for mine, anyhow, was to give everyone a snapshot of the team's place, and as I say, it's now too far behind for that.

To no one in particular: The phrase "my computer at work" is a dangerous one to post in a distributed computing thread. I take no responsibility if the boss finds out. Unless, you are the boss. :)

Wolverine
2005-Feb-26, 03:36 AM
...Wolverine's use of the "X" is quicker; thanks to him/her for letting me know about it...

YW, and I be a he. ;)

tmosher
2005-Feb-26, 03:50 AM
Anyone have any experience running the software on an AMD Athlon? I've got a 1.2 Gig processor and the software appears to be running very slow - i.e., around 10% every hour.

Wolverine
2005-Feb-26, 04:31 AM
I'm running on an Athlon 2200XP+ (~1.83 GHz). It takes a good while to process a WU regardless of CPU. Looking through some of the "top computers" results, I see that even the high-end Athlon 64s (3800+, etc) take over 5 hours to complete a WU. Takes me 7-8h on average thus far.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-26, 09:13 AM
I am now running on my main machine and on a laptop (30% SETI 70% Einstein), two quick questions:- On one of the set up pages is an option to "merge this computer" what is this? How do I get the box shown on some of the posts here showing individual stats?

Wolverine
2005-Feb-26, 09:58 AM
How do I get the box shown on some of the posts here showing individual stats?

Go to http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/ and create an account, it'll display your credit from SETI as well as E@H on the same graphic. Just follow the instructions on the site, register with a legit e-mail address (your password will be sent to you), log in, and it'll provide you with options to customize colors as well as the URL necessary to display the image in your sig.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-26, 10:01 AM
Thanks :D

Quantum_Raider
2005-Feb-26, 01:13 PM
Latest Stats (27/02/05 - 02:12)

Ranking
Total credit: 324th
Recent average credit: 203rd

Wolverine
2005-Feb-26, 01:56 PM
I'll be curious to see what kind of surge is made in the coming days, considering 15 team members aren't yet visible on the list, and just from the remaining whose stats are viewable (plus mine) we've got in excess of 2200 points pending.

Go us! :D

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-26, 02:57 PM
How do I get the box shown on some of the posts here showing individual stats?

Go to http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/ and create an account, it'll display your credit from SETI as well as E@H on the same graphic. Just follow the instructions on the site, register with a legit e-mail address (your password will be sent to you), log in, and it'll provide you with options to customize colors as well as the URL necessary to display the image in your sig.

Wolverine, he rocks! :) I love a concise, accurate description. Concise I never been. Only thing to add is be sure to use phpBB code if you aren't allowed html here.


Zebo, I see you got it working.

Wolverine mentioned you maybe wanted your seti or other projects included in sig; if so use the code in the "All-in-one Account" box. (Disadvantage is these don't include team stats; which is why you maybe chose to display Einstein only.)

Here's a reply to Evan, asked in the thread that will not die:


Has anyone figured out how to search the team standings? BABB is at 364 right now but they aren't very prompt at updating the database. I still have pending credit from the 24th.

Many users are posting now about our position, which is great :); maybe they can tell where they are getting them from?

I posted a kludgey method earlier that involved guessing a position in the team stats list, but here's a one stop shop for all things BABB I just found; over at boincstats.com: Detailed statistics for "BABB" (http://www.boincstats.com/stats/team_graph.php?pr=einstein&id=1064).

It has team graphs, but with only one day's data so far, it just shows a solid blue bar.

If you click "Link to position in World stats" you can see our near neighbors, including recent movement (up 240 in last day :D )

I like:
Accumulated more Credit than % of all teams: 62.52900%

The "Link to member stats" shows only 4 members returning credit, however, the direct E@H link (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/team_display.php?teamid=1064) shows 10.
Other than that, it's all you could want in BABB info, IMO.

I haven't a clue as to Evan's other question:


Bah.

I tried to set it up on my home machine but I don't think it can be made to work. I access the net from home using an undocumented feature in XP. I dial up a modem on my XP machine at work set up as a dialup server. The work machine has two NICs on two bridged subnets and is connected to ADSL thorough a router on one of the subnets. The dial in connection supposedly cannot be bridged but if you bridge two subnets on the same machine it includes the dial-in connection in the bridge anyway. There must be some sort of port filtering going on as the BOINC server reports a proxy problem.

Maybe someone who knows proxys can help?

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-26, 03:03 PM
I posted a kludgey method earlier that involved guessing a position in the team stats list, but here's a one stop shop for all things BABB I just found; over at boincstats.com: Detailed statistics for "BABB".

That looks great! :D

Just a quick word of warning looking at one of the forums it seems that some people have had problems with laptops overheating. I am running on both a normal PC and a laptop, I found that th laptop did get very hot underneath. (the CPU is working hard ALL the time) just raising the back by resting it on a paperback caused the temp. to return to normal levels after about 20 min.

<Edit to add warning>

aurora
2005-Feb-26, 03:11 PM
Anyone have any experience running the software on an AMD Athlon? I've got a 1.2 Gig processor and the software appears to be running very slow - i.e., around 10% every hour.

That's probably about right for 1.2 gig.

I'm using a 2.6 Celeron that is taking about 9 hours or so per file. And the Celeron is less capable than other processors.

I've looked at my pending files periodically, and it seems whenever I have one that is pending for awhile, it was also processed on a Power Macintosh run by somone named Boarderz in Japan. The Mac is claiming less credit than my machine is, so I guess the system is waiting for a third system to finish the data to create a majority vote.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-26, 04:24 PM
Hi aurora, thanks for your help.



I've looked at my pending files periodically, and it seems whenever I have one that is pending for awhile, it was also processed on a Power Macintosh run by somone named Boarderz in Japan. The Mac is claiming less credit than my machine is, so I guess the system is waiting for a third system to finish the data to create a majority vote.

The E@H Getting Started (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/intro.php) page explains the granting process:


The project's server keeps track of how much work each participant has contributed; this is called credit. The following system is used to ensure that credit is granted fairly:

* Each work unit is sent to at least two computers.
* When a computer reports a result, it claims a certain amount of credit, based on how much CPU time was used.
* When at least two results have been returned, the server compares them. If the results agree, then users are granted the smaller of the claimed credits.

<graphic display snipped>

There may be a delay of several days between when your computer reports a result and when it is granted credit for the result. Your User page shows you how much credit is 'pending' (claimed but not granted).

As best I understand this, only two computers need report before credit is granted, but I expect there is yet more delay before the result is "posted"? And of course, it won't show up in your client until it communicates again, or you do the "Update" thing.

The reason why we get the smaller of the two credits, I assume, is so slower computers won't be unfairly rewarded by the fact that their companion is much faster.

Unless you have the fastest computer on the planet (in which case you deserve to die :)), it should all average out: you will be slower than some & faster than some.

Longtime BOINCers or seti-ists might have better explanations for this, and I'm sure the BOINC forum would have endless arguments about, really, whatever credit system they used.


zebo, You're welcome :) & thanks for the warning. Laptops probably get shorter battery life as well? I know flat out running makes for bigger electricity billson desktops, but maybe that is more from fans and HDs running 24/7 than the extra use of CPU?

Evan
2005-Feb-26, 05:44 PM
Ken,

I did a little checking on what is happening with my home computer. Although I'm not really using a proxy the BOINC program is using the local IP address of my home computer. Since that is a localnet address it cannot be reached by the BOINC server. I'm not sure this can be overcome. There is a beta version of BOINC that is supposed to deal with proxy problems better, I'll try that later today to see if it works.

The method I use to connect from home is completely undocumented on the net the last time I checked. It is a "feature" of XP that isn't supposed to exist. I found it myself and it allows me to tie in to my ADSL connection remotely with no time limits or disconnects on my dialup.

At this time I have about 765 points still pending.

BTW, the AMD CPUs have a much faster numeric coprocessor than the Intel CPUs for the same clock speed. AMD is about twice as fast for the same CPU cycles.

tmosher
2005-Feb-26, 06:16 PM
I'm still figuring out the program. It finished the first bit of work last night, but this morning I had to manually get it to upload the completed work using the update command.

On average, it took less than 10 hours CPU time to complete one set on an AMD 1.2 GHz Duron (I though I had an Athlon - I'm getting forgetful as I built this kludged machine out of spare parts).

Seriously thinking about putting together another machine as an adjunct to this one.

Evan
2005-Feb-26, 06:23 PM
What update command? I can't find an update command.

The size of a work unit allocated to a machine varies according to the benchmarks results for the machine. You can't directly compare how long it take different machines to complete a work unit.

tmosher
2005-Feb-26, 06:34 PM
What update command? I can't find an update command.

The size of a work unit allocated to a machine varies according to the benchmarks results for the machine. You can't directly compare how long it take different machines to complete a work unit.

Didn't realize that it varied the work unit based on CPU benchmark. That makes sense, faster CPU benchmark - bigger work unit.

Update command is from the Project tab - right click on the project name and it comes up along with reset, detach, and reset project.

I think I've got an XP issue when it comes to automatically sending the completed data - network settings are probably preventing this.

Evan
2005-Feb-26, 06:42 PM
Thanks.

gethen
2005-Feb-26, 07:33 PM
Well, I just joined, but have a problem. Got installed and so forth, then kept getting messages saying the schedule server wasn't responding. I left a message on Einstein@home and am patiently waiting for help.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-26, 07:38 PM
Well, I just joined, but have a problem. Got installed and so forth, then kept getting messages saying the schedule server wasn't responding. I left a message on Einstein@home and am patiently waiting for help.

I got that, just wait it will eventualy connect and sort itself out!
Mine took around 40 min. I think it depends how busy the server is, but that's just a guess :D

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-26, 08:00 PM
I finished my first work unit in about 8 hours, and it was uploaded. But then I got a message saying "Deferring communication with server" for 24 hours. It's down to 4 now, but I wonder why it did that? Seems silly to wait that long when it should just grab the next one and go!

I need to read the config page more carefully, but man, this is complicated!

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-26, 09:19 PM
I finished my first work unit in about 8 hours, and it was uploaded. But then I got a message saying "Deferring communication with server" for 24 hours. It's down to 4 now, but I wonder why it did that? Seems silly to wait that long when it should just grab the next one and go!

I need to read the config page more carefully, but man, this is complicated!

Hi BA, zebo, and gethen:

This is happening for me now too, it's normal when their servers go down; saw it much more in the beta BOINC.

They do an "exponential backoff," they call it, when the servers go down: defer for 1 min, 2 min, 4 min, etc, so that all clients are not all trying to call at the same time & making it harder to come back on line.

I'll go over to the BOINC forum when I finish this post and see if they have an explanation, meanwhile, I guess patience?? It's the same for Team Art Bell?? :) :-?

Edit: Turns out it's E@H'es server that's troubled: From their main page:


Feb 26, 2005
The Einstein@Home server crashed at 09:30 Feb 26 UTC. We still do not know what caused the problem. We are still working on recovering from the crash so the scheduler will not be running for a few hours. You should report any problems that you may be having as a result of the crash in the "Problems and Bug Reports" message board.

:(

Incidentally, there seems to be no more a BOINC board, like I've been calling it all these days; it's now part of the seti board.

Anyway, here's a tip stolen from there for those who might want to run as a service:


Open a command prompt, change to the directory where BOINC is installed. Start the command line version with the -install option. If you installed BOINC in the default location you'd enter:

cd "c:/program files/boinc"
boinc_cli -install

Be sure to remove BOINC from the startup folders, it might be in "all users" or an individual user depending on how you installed it. Run msinfo32 to see how it starts, and msconfig to "disable" the startup.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-26, 09:48 PM
This is nice software! My first unit got to about 90% then it downloaded the next one so it will be ready to run when the first one ends. Simple but neat! :D

Evan
2005-Feb-26, 10:18 PM
I downloaded and installed the 4.24 BOINC beta. It works with my oddball setup which is cool. That gives me three machines on the project. I might install it on a couple more.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-26, 10:26 PM
Scheduler back up :)


Feb 26, 2005
The scheduler is running again and we hope that we have fixed the last of the problems that resulted from the crash.

If you are still "deferred," you can now sucessfully "retry now."

The process is as tmosher described above:



Update command is from the Project tab - right click on the project name and it comes up along with [website], detach, and reset project.

Evan
2005-Feb-26, 11:29 PM
It appears I am waiting on a bunch of slow computers to have my credits granted.

gethen
2005-Feb-26, 11:52 PM
Well, it's not clearing and this is the latest message:
Einstein@Home - 2005-02-26 18:49:38 - Message from server: Misconfigured BOINC installation or proxy-server problems!
Since I'm essentially computer illiterate, this doesn't mean much to me. Any help would be appreciated.

gethen
2005-Feb-26, 11:56 PM
I just checked the website and had a reply to my question there about the problem. A reply said that there was a problem at Einstein@home that was creating the error message, so I guess I'll just wait it out.

mickal555
2005-Feb-27, 03:29 AM
Everyone,

Sorry, I had to go to my Nana's for the weekend since my dad went to Perth, and they don't have the INTERNET/computer so I"m sorry I haven't started on the site yet. I will try to go through everyones posts and come up with something.
Again I am very sorry I just disappeared of the face of the www.

Sorry,
Michael

Tensor
2005-Feb-27, 04:09 AM
It appears I am waiting on a bunch of slow computers to have my credits granted.

Yeah, join the club. :( I've credit for over 300 waiting.

Evan
2005-Feb-27, 05:19 AM
I'm waiting on 1000 now including some dating to the 23rd.

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-27, 06:30 AM
Nuts, my PC needs to be rebooted. What happens if I do that?

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 06:35 AM
Hi again,


I am now running on my main machine and on a laptop (30% SETI 70% Einstein), two quick questions:- On one of the set up pages is an option to "merge this computer" what is this? How do I get the box shown on some of the posts here showing individual stats?

I've overlooked your first question (2nd one answered in yellow :) ) :

In the "View Computers" link on the main account page, click on any of your individual IDs. Down at the bottom is the "Merge Computer" link, whose description is


Merge host

Sometimes BOINC assigns separate identities to the same computer by mistake. You can correct this by merging old identities with the newest one.

I would think you would need this rarely, since BOINC uploads your detailed box info automatically, each time you attach a new box.


All:


Evan discovered that the other computers a given WU goes to are listed in the "Work Unit" page that you get by clicking on the individual work unit ID on your Results View page. Great Catch! But please don't use this info to firebomb folks who are slowing you down. :D

These "Work Unit" pages cast doubt on the "smaller of 2 credits" system, seems it must be more complicated than that. I'm sure there's full discussion in the seti-BOINC forums.

3 or 4 WUs pending is not unusual for me, and for a faster box I would think even more would be possible. Evan, 1000 credit pending sounds like a lot, but if memory serves that's for more than one computer?

One (very good, IMO) reason for the "smaller of 2 credits," or whatever algorithm they use, is to cut down on cheating. If someone figures out how to fake a correct WU in an hour's time say, instead of getting 1000 points, they'd get no more than 100 or so. I will never understand why some folks would cheat in a volunteer project, but it has happened, and the skewed stats that result make a lot of legitimate users very unhappy indeed.

The stat site (http://www.boincstats.com/stats/team_graph.php?pr=einstein&id=1064) I linked to a couple of posts back updated about 2 hours ago, and we are now #296 & the graph starts to look like a graph. :)

12 out of 27 members have returned credit; patience recommended for the rest of you, if you aren't getting error messages, it will happen "one of these days."

-----------------------------------

As best I know, please help out if you can, here's the chain of delay from a WU you upload to the time you see stats

* Your beloved WU uploads

* Credit reported to scheduler:
--This only happens when either:
------- the next WUs are downloaded to you, which in turn depends on the How Often to Connect setting in Project Preferences.
------- you manually do the Update thing (described by tmosher above.)

* Credit is listed as "pending" on the E@H stats link under Your Account:
--Not sure about this; somewhere on their site it says "updated every 6 minutes," but I've not had the anality to trace a given WU through the process.

* Credit comfirmed and granted: (heavily edited see, for example, here (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=428466#428466) for details.)
--This can take a week or more, waiting on the reply from the other two confirming computers. Usually less. My box often has 300-400 pending, som e very fast boxes have 1000 or more. All completed WUs will eventually go gold..

* Credit is granted on your E@H stats page:
--This probably happens in the same "6 minutes" as for pending.

* Credit appears on 3rd party sites like boincstats.com (http://boincstat.com): (edited)
--E@H posts stats files as compressed XML (don't ask me what these are) to a FTP site, several times a day. 3rd parties have routines that quickly format them for their sites, but the time they actually appear varies, so different sites may show slightly different numbers.


Bottom line, it can be a long time, and for your first bunch, I know it feels much longer.

mickal555
2005-Feb-27, 06:35 AM
I think it should be all right. Hopefully.
I wish they had smaller data pakages....

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 06:38 AM
Nuts, my PC needs to be rebooted. What happens if I do that?

No problem BA, the client will resume computing the current work unit at very nearly the same place.

It will probably show "0.00%" for a minute until it gets it bearings.

Evan
2005-Feb-27, 07:07 AM
I don't like BOINC nearly as much as the RC5-64 project at Distributed.net that I participated in. Stats were updated every day. This business of having three different computers confirming results seems wasteful of resources.

I can't assume they are going for 100% accuracy in this project. It should be safe to assume that most calculations have been done correctly. Distributed.net did so and was successful.

Evan
2005-Feb-27, 02:17 PM
Now up to 1100 credits pending. What's up with that?

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 03:46 PM
I don't like BOINC nearly as much as the RC5-64 project at Distributed.net that I participated in. Stats were updated every day. This business of having three different computers confirming results seems wasteful of resources.

I can't assume they are going for 100% accuracy in this project. It should be safe to assume that most calculations have been done correctly. Distributed.net did so and was successful.

Evan,

I also enjoyed my time on distributed.net. It's just astronomy is my first love & I'd run a project like Einstein@Home if they gave me negative credit.

I'm preparing a post with answers from the FAQ about some of the issues you and others have been raising.

But with all gentleness and respect, you are blazing through these WU on that Athlon 2700! :) All your results are successes, they are only taking 7-8 hours, and the oldest of your pending results is from little more than two days ago. Several of the oldest ones have now been verified by one other box, waiting only a third. Give it a day or two more --- I know it is frustrating to hear this.

Again, I might suggest posting the above quote over in the Cruncher's Corner at Einstein@Home board (your long activation key is their password.) They might have an explanation of the reason for their verification method. Some very knowledgeable people monitor that board.

If you'd prefer, are busy, etc, I'd be glad to post there anonymously on your behalf.

I suspect though that the need for extra verification is at least partially to absolutely minimize one source of error in the science. Their goal, after all, is getting their paper published in Nature. It is an Einstein@Home verification method, incidentally, other BOINC projects probably use other ways of validating credit; I know climateprdiction.net does.

One possible crumb is that Bruce said in a post I'm too tired to find right now that they were having some trouble with their Validator, and it is now running in debug mode until they track down the problem.

At the risk of sticking in one more smiley than you can stand: Hang in there, Evan! :D

**********************

All--

boincstats.com just updated again, and even with only one of Evan's 17 WU counted we are now #255. We're all hoping his results get added soon.

iFire
2005-Feb-27, 03:52 PM
Bah, I am kinda unable to figure out the "Boinc" client. I made an account, and DL'd the program. But how do I make it know what project I want to work on?

aurora
2005-Feb-27, 03:59 PM
Bah, I am kinda unable to figure out the "Boinc" client. I made an account, and DL'd the program. But how do I make it know what project I want to work on?

Open the BOINC window, then click on Settings and then Attach to Project.

iFire
2005-Feb-27, 04:09 PM
Bah, I am kinda unable to figure out the "Boinc" client. I made an account, and DL'd the program. But how do I make it know what project I want to work on?

Open the BOINC window, then click on Settings and then Attach to Project.


Ooo. I see... heh. Is my account ID the numeric number (hehe, numeric number) or the really long number, or my username?

Edit: Oh its the huge one. I figured it out! Yay! I am not on my way to catch a gravatational wave. ( #-o )

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-27, 04:38 PM
I am running the program on two computers, the main machine set as "Home" and a laptop set as "Work". I want the Home machine to run all the time and the Work machine to run when not in use. I have them set up in prefs and updated each machine but still can't get them to behave diffferently! Is there a way to disable the "Default" setting? or am I missing something? :o

(363.17 credit pending)

gethen
2005-Feb-27, 04:45 PM
Hit the 'retry' this a.m. and it's running! Yahoo!

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-27, 04:49 PM
:D :D :D =D> =D> :D :D :D

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-27, 06:29 PM
Now I have yet another problem.

I have my screen saver set to turn on after some amount of time (1000 minutes when I am at work, but I reset it to 1 minute when I leave to go home). It resets to the login screen when you wiggle the mouse. This is for security reasons, and I have to do it.

Since I have started using BOINC, it can take up to ten minutes for me to be able to get to my login screen. Basically, the PC freezes for long periods of time when the screen saver is on. This is pretty inconvenient (to say the least)!.

I think it's because when the PC is idle, BOINC takes up 100% of my resources. I cannot see anyplace in the settings to tell it to use only, say, 90%, which would be fine (then another process like "turn off screen saver" could sneak in).

Any ideas?

Thanks for the help with the other questions too, folks!

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 06:41 PM
I am running the program on two computers, the main machine set as "Home" and a laptop set as "Work". I want the Home machine to run all the time and the Work machine to run when not in use. I have them set up in prefs and updated each machine but still can't get them to behave diffferently! Is there a way to disable the "Default" setting? or am I missing something? :o

(363.17 credit pending)

Zebo, Since I have only one box, others may know more, but I'll try. Here's the standard way:

First is set up each computer from the Your Computers" page, as you did: one for home and one for work.

Then you also have to got to the bottom of "Your Account"|"General Preferences" and click "Add separate preferences for home" and set "Do work while computer is in use?" as you want it, and then make the opposite setting in "Add separate preferences for work." (Forgive me if you did this, it wasn't totally clear from your post.)

Then, as you did, you must "do the update thing" for each box. The message you get back from the scheduler should then be something like "Using Separate preferences for Home" instead of "using your defaults."

That's how it is supposed to work, that is, the separate preferences override the general ones.

But I just noticed that my box is still saying "using your defaults," even though I did set up separate ones for home.

So I checked at Paul's F.A.Q. for BOINC (http://www.boinc-doc.net/_phpMyFAQ/index.php?sid=2608&lang=en&action=artikel&cat=2917 99&id=83&artlang=en&highlight=preferences%20separa te), a resource new to me, at the bottom it states:


There are some problems with the use of the preference venues. In many cases the computers don't seem to want to operate according to the venue settings. The most reliable method of making the preferences "stick" is to manually edit the BOINC XML files located on the computer.

Here are the instructions from that page for modifying the client_state.xml file, modified for our project. This worked for me! :)


Comment of Boba Fett:
Here is how to change a hosts venue:

First: Select the host on the webpage and change the venue. (say: work)
---This you have done, as noted above -KV

Second: Exit your BOINC Client (not suspend really quit!)

Third: Edit your Client_State.xml search for host_venue you should find: <host_venue>home</host_venue>
---Since your message is "Using your defaults," this line probably will not be there-- mine wasn't
If it is there, change it to <host_venue>work</host_venue>

If it's not there, then add the line

<host_venue>work</host_venue>

at the bottom of the file just before </client_state>
--note that's </client_state>


Fourth: Start your BOINC Client and check the first messages they should look like:

2005-01-06 10:47:42 - Starting BOINC client version 4.xx for windows_intelx86
2005-01-06 10:47:42 - Project prefs: no separate prefs for work: using your defaults
2005-01-06 10:47:42 - Host ID is 353379
........
2005-01-06 10:47:42 - Project prefs: using separate prefs for work

You must "Update" before the last line will show.

Then edit the other boxes XML for home.
HTH

**********************

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 06:51 PM
Now I have yet another problem.

I have my screen saver set to turn on after some amount of time (1000 minutes when I am at work, but I reset it to 1 minute when I leave to go home). It resets to the login screen when you wiggle the mouse. This is for security reasons, and I have to do it.

Since I have started using BOINC, it can take up to ten minutes for me to be able to get to my login screen. Basically, the PC freezes for long periods of time when the screen saver is on. This is pretty inconvenient (to say the least)!.

I think it's because when the PC is idle, BOINC takes up 100% of my resources. I cannot see anyplace in the settings to tell it to use only, say, 90%, which would be fine (then another process like "turn off screen saver" could sneak in).

Any ideas?

Thanks for the help with the other questions too, folks!

You are most welcome. :) But I have no idea on this one, I'll post over at Einstein@Home; is it okay to use your user name, or should I just say

"A user over at the Bad Astronomy board asked:" :wink:

Edit: Ok I checked over there (without posting), and I'm not even clear whether there is a screensaver for BOINC/Einstein. Are you having this problem with a BOINC/Einstein saver, or is it the one you used to use?

If there is a BOINC/Einstein screensaver change it to a different one in Desktop|Properties; there is no need to run a BOINC/Einstein saver, in fact the graphics display they use can slow down the computation.

If the old screensaver doesn't work, will the "Blank" screensaver work with your security set up, and will it resume quickly with BOINC running?

Until this is resolved, you could suspend or exit BOINC overnight.

In fact, you might try exiting BOINC now (in the morning, I guess I mean), set the screen saver to 1 minute and see if it re-logs on the way it should. This would confirm that it is BOINC/Einstein that is the problem.

If any of these random ideas don't work, hopefully somebody here will know the answer, if not I'll post over at the Einstein@Home board tomorrow.

Must rest now, sorry. :(

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 07:06 PM
Glad things are working for you ifire, and gethen!


I think it should be all right. Hopefully.
I wish they had smaller data pakages....

I read over in Einstein@Home, in the FAQ, I think, that they must be this large for the science.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-27, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the info, no luck so far. (maybe I should wait until the effects of the red wine ware off before I try messing with config files!)

I'll try again later when I can focus on the screen! :D :D

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 07:22 PM
zebo,

Note that I made one edit after posting (had a "home" in there that shoulda been "work"); make sure you're looking at the refreshed page.

Also, you might check the original instuctions on the FAQ site against my interpretation of them. I'm not currently drunk, but am tired. :)

If it still doesn' work, email me your .xml.

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-27, 10:01 PM
Apparently, switching my screen saver to "blank" fixed it (black screen after 1 minute, no graphics). I just tested it and it worked, but I'll keep checking back just to make sure. Thanks!

tlbs101
2005-Feb-27, 11:17 PM
211 credits from my machine, since last Thursday.

It's cranking away! \:D/


If I had an internet connection at home, I would put another 2.5GHz Celeron to work, also... oh well.

(BTW: I am at work all weekend) :cry:

Nicolas
2005-Feb-27, 11:21 PM
I'm having no credits yet, but my PC is eating into about 20 MB of data packages at a time now. My PC isn't always on, it should take another 11 hours to complete those 2 first data packages.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-27, 11:55 PM
That's great, BA! <thumbs up>

Also Nicolas and tlb101! :D
And anyone else who's posted and I've forgot. :)

tlb: Seems possible there might be a way to run offline and every 3-4 days upload a passle of completed WU's from your connected box. If such a thing would fit easily into your routine, I'll check it out for you "one of these days." :)

Couldn't resist remarking on 2 recent neighbors: as of 2/26.....

255 BABB
....
267 SETI <Expletive>ers Team - Italians do it better
268 Microsoft


Way to go BABB :)

Wolverine
2005-Feb-28, 02:25 AM
It appears I am waiting on a bunch of slow computers to have my credits granted.

Yeah, join the club. :( I've credit for over 300 waiting.

I feel your pain... sitting here on a heap of 820+ pending, and just today was finally issued credit for my 2nd WU. Maybe the pot will come to a boil if we quit watching it. ;)

Just imagine when all this accumulated credit's granted, coupled with the increase in membership -- the team will pole-vault upwards in the ranks nicely. 8)

Wolverine
2005-Feb-28, 02:34 AM
At the time of this posting, we've moved up to #191 in total credit, and #108 in RAC. Onward and upward. \:D/

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Feb-28, 02:58 AM
Gimmie a week and I can get a 3.06 Ghz box hooked into it.

It'll take that long before I can get the thing fixed. Dud hard drive.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 04:47 AM
It appears I am waiting on a bunch of slow computers to have my credits granted.

Yeah, join the club. :( I've credit for over 300 waiting.

I feel your pain... sitting here on a heap of 820+ pending, and just today was finally issued credit for my 2nd WU. Maybe the pot will come to a boil if we quit watching it. ;)

Just imagine when all this accumulated credit's granted, coupled with the increase in membership -- the team will pole-vault upwards in the ranks nicely. 8)


Evan update:

He finally got credit for a second WU :), but it was on one of his slower Intel boxes --803 Mhz. The Athlon 2700 still has 18 or so units pending (it crunches them, in fact, in about 5.8 hours :o . )

The oldest pending WU has had one co-computer crap out with "No Reply," and the only other one in the running to be the third result is a very fast box which is apparently not on all the time -- its turn around time is 7 days. :( So that WU is likely history. Hopefully, his other pending ones will be validated soon, but I'm beginning to disbelieve my own cheerleading, just a bit.

I do very much hope the floodgates open soon, not only for Evan but for others with fast boxes which are coming on like you Wolverine and Tensor; and The Supreme Canuck -- Welcome! -- and, not least, The Bad Astonomer. Ulp!

I will try to post tomorrow over at Einstein@Home a general question about why it seems fast boxes get credit slow, and slow boxes get credit fast. (The latter because 2 other faster machines would likely have posted before it does.)

And Evan, if you are willing, I will let them link to your public Computer Summary to see if they can tell if there is more than bad luck going on.

-----------------
Much belated congrats to SarahMc, who is now the leader in BABB team total credit, replacing me. :(, I mean, :). My total on the team page was mostly piled up in the test phase & before the BABB team was formed.

Wolverine
2005-Feb-28, 05:28 AM
I do very much hope the floodgates open soon, not only for Evan but for others with fast boxes which are coming on like you Wolverine and Tensor...

Fast? Heh, this mobo/CPU combo is well over 2 years old. Just wait til I get my feet into the Socket 939 arena... :D

Honestly, I'm not worried about it. Sure, new users (myself included) are eager to see progress made, but the cycle takes a while to complete and patience is necessary. Our contributions are the most important part; all the stat-chasing is secondary (even though it's fun to see our team rise in the ranks ;) ). We'll get there.


I will try to post tomorrow over at Einstein@Home a general question about why it seems fast boxes get credit slow, and slow boxes get credit fast. (The latter because 2 other faster machines would likely have posted before it does.)

Looking at my results, the delay seems mainly due to "luck of the draw", so to speak. Several WUs I've completed haven't been sent to others yet (or reported as such), and others appear to have been sent to those displaying slow turnaround times (4+ days), chronic client errors, and a few who may have abandoned ship. A few are quite close to their deadlines, at which point they'll just redistribute those WUs until successful results are returned.

Having skimmed through the message boards on the E@H site, some folks are downright testy if not overtly rude about wanting their credit granted quickly. :o

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Feb-28, 05:30 AM
Here's a question (actually, 2):

1) Are there any security risks involved? I don't want to break open my internet security.

2) How much of a slow-down will this cause? I doubt much, if any, but still... y'know?

Edit:

And a third:

3) Why are we looking for these pulsars?

Wolverine
2005-Feb-28, 05:44 AM
1) Are there any security risks involved? I don't want to break open my internet security.

Here's (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/info.php) what they say:


Any time you download a program through the Internet you are taking a chance: the program might have dangerous errors, or the download server might have been hacked. Einstein@Home has made efforts to minimize these risks. We have tested our applications carefully. Our servers are behind a firewall and are configured for high security. To ensure the integrity of program downloads, all executable files are digitally signed on a secure computer not connected to the Internet.

Good enough for me.


2) How much of a slow-down will this cause? I doubt much, if any, but still... y'know?

I haven't noticed any, running 1.83 GHz CPU and a gig of DDR333, but I also haven't used any resource-hog apps recently. Worst case scenario, if you're low on resources and need to run something system-intensive, just exit BOINC until your other work/gaming is finished, then resume on completion.


3) Why are we looking for these pulsars?

The detection of gravitational waves could yield profound ramifications, some of which are detailed in this article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6998163/).

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Feb-28, 05:49 AM
Ah, wonderful! Thanks.

Now if I could just get this thing fixed.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 05:58 AM
(edited occasionally for grater accuracy; please let me know of any errors.)

Edit: A later version than the one reviewed, 4.25, operates pretty much the same, so I've left the review pretty much the same.

A beta version of your BOINC client, v4.24, is available on the BOINC download site (http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php); at the bottom.

At least one of us, Evan, is also using this version, with no bad reports so far, and I haven't seen problems either, but use at your own risk.

To install you must first uninstall your current version, from Add/Remove programs (don't know how the process is on other platforms.) This does not delete the parent directory, which contains the Einstein subdirectories, and don't don't delete it after uninstalling; you will then automatically resume with your same WUs.

And be especially sure to install in the same directory from which you just uninstalled. If you don't routinely accept default locations, C:\Program Files\BOINC, I think?, be sure you know where your old folder was.

Note that sometimes installing a new BOINC results in the client automatically downloading a new compatible version of the Einstein@Home project software (though not AFAIK in this case: still uses 4.79), which forces the abandonment of your current work unit. So if you are jealous of your credit, it's best to install soon after a WU has uploaded.

What's new:

*** The client is now called and labelled "BOINC Manager."

*** Edit: The message tab no nonger flashes blue when a message comes in -- Yay!

*** There is a Task Pane to the left of the main window, which lists the things that can be done while you are in each tab. It is essentially a jumbo size version of the context menu, which is no more.

For example, in the "Projects" tab, there is an "Update" link for the highlighted project. No more right click to "perform the update thingy." :) If you only have one project, Einstein@Home, attached, you still have to highlight it first before the Update link appears. This is the same as when you used the context menu, obviously you have to R-click on something whenever you use a context menu; but it should be unnecessary with the task pane. IOW, if only one project is attached, the Update item should be visible whether that one item is highlighted or not. (IMO)

If you are in the "Work" tab, and highlight the running WU, the Suspend, Show graphics, and Abort options appear in the task pane. (If your highlight is mistakenly on one of the ready to run WUs, the "Show Graphics" item vanishes, as it should, but this may be confusing.

Likewise, copying to clipboard, previously a context item, is now a Task Pane item in the Messages tab. Edit: (another brain cramp: shift key, control key: how they work :oops:) In 4.25 at least, maybe in 4.24, you can now select all messages between a given two while holding down the shift key, and uncontiguous messages with the control key, adhering to Windows standards. Once selected, click "Copy selected to clipboard" in the task pane. But the keyboard shortcuts, Ctrl-C, etc., don't work; didn't work in earlier versions either, IIRC.

The task pane is, AFAIK, not hidable or re sizable and takes up a pretty big chunk of screen space.


*** "Show graphics," which worked in version 4.19 from the context menu, does not seem to work in 4.24, though there is a task pane item for it, but I'm sure that will be fixed before general release.

*** Your Team name is now listed in the "Projects" tab.

*** There is no longer a sliding yellow bar in the "Progress" field.

*** There is now a status line, which does a very good job of taking up more screen space.

*** The Windows task bar entry is still there when the client is visible; still there if you minimize; but still goes away if you click the "X."

*** Evan reported earlier in this thread that 4.24 does much better handling proxies; whatever they are :); on my box the title bar now shows "BOINC Manager (localhost)".

*** In some tabs you can minimize the width of the client by shrinking down fields like work unit Name. In the messages tab, you can leave the horizontal scroll bar all the way to the right to see the end of the message, where the important word "Succeeded" resides. In this way, you can reclaim most of the space taken by the task pane.

This doesn't mean much if you usually run iconized, but if you want an unobtrusive little window in the corner so you can keep an eye on progress; this version is a lot less unobtrusive.

As always with beta software, let the buyer beware, etc.

I'd of course be most grateful for corrections, and other opinions.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 06:16 AM
Here's a question (actually, 2):

1) Are there any security risks involved? I don't want to break open my internet security.

2) How much of a slow-down will this cause? I doubt much, if any, but still... y'know?

Edit:

And a third:

3) Why are we looking for these pulsars?


Wolverine has it down in his answers, many thanks to him! <thumbs up>

Tiny additions:

1) IIRC, on your side it uses only the standard port 80, and the first time it calls out your firewall will ask if it's OK, so it is well-behaved.

2) It runs at low priority (you can see this in Task Manager, R-click on the Einstein entry in Processes.) So in theory, whenever any app needs anything from the CPU, einstein gives up the cycles. I too have never seen any kind of slowdown, but then Freecell is not that intensive an activity. :)

3) I'm not sure how much we are looking for gravitational waves, though we are for sure searching GW data for pulsars. Others would know more, much more, than me in General Astronomy or the Einstein Cafe section of the Einstein@Home board (if you go over there, do a search first for "pulsar," I'm sure it's been discussed a lot.)

But off the top of my head, and without doing any of the searching I just suggested you do:

If the pulsars we're finding are extragalactic, knowing where many more of them are would be a big help to calibrating the distance scale of the universe, possibly pinning down cosmological parameters even more, etc.

I have no credentials at all for the above statements, but HTH anyway.

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 12:47 PM
Program ran all day yesterday without problem. Now, instead of the usual screensaver I have a "No applications running" message and the message board says something about communication with server being suspended for 10 hours...9hours...etc. Is this the norm?

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 01:08 PM
I've reset the preferences for every communication every 3.0 days as suggested on the message board. Will my computer still wait out the time listed in "messages" before downloading new work?

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 01:18 PM
I've reset the preferences for every communication every 3.0 days as suggested on the message board. Will my computer still wait out the time listed in "messages" before downloading new work?
Yes it will!
Update the Project to get new work.

Fram
2005-Feb-28, 01:27 PM
If you're running Boinc for longer periods without being able to check (say a weekend), make sure you set that setting lower than half the time needed for completion of a WU. Otherwise, your PC will be standing idle after it has finished a WU.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 01:28 PM
Program ran all day yesterday without problem. Now, instead of the usual screensaver I have a "No applications running" message and the message board says something about communication with server being suspended for 10 hours...9hours...etc. Is this the norm?

gethen,

See an answer to your last question at end of this post :)

It would be normal if you had fininshed all work units and the server was down (see the posts from Friday, I think, when the server crash happened; search for "exponential backoff."

But, AFAIK, the server is not down; no message over at Einstein@Home and I just successfully updated. Sorry to ask this, is your internet connec.... dumb! You just posted this! Of course it's OK! :oops:

Don't know what else to say; you could post here the message lines starting with the first time you got "no application running" You have to hold down control or shift and click each message you want (unlike Windows standard :( ) and then r-click "copy to clipboard."

We'll see if folks here can make something of it, otherwise I'll send it to Einstein@Home.

C2TOI, you might close and restart BOINC, or uninstall/reinstall in the same directory, or even try out the new beta (see a few posts above) to see if that fixes it. But these smack of desperation & I have no idea if they would work.


I've reset the preferences for every communication every 3.0 days as suggested on the message board. Will my computer still wait out the time listed in "messages" before downloading new work?

Not if you ask it not to.... Edit: what Laguna2 just said....:

You need to "update" to get the new preferences downloaded into the client. Normally, this should also initiate a download if out of work.

To update: Right click on the einstein project in the "Projects" tab and click "Update." Yours should actually say "Update (retry now)" since it has been trying unsuccessfully.

Let me know if this helps and or/ send some recent messages.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 01:41 PM
If you're running Boinc for longer periods without being able to check (say a weekend), make sure you set that setting lower than half the time needed for completion of a WU. Otherwise, your PC will be standing idle after it has finished a WU.

Hi Fram,

Actually I think what will happen with a setting like "Connect every three days" is each time it connects it will download enough work for the next 3 days, so you won't run out.

You'll see messages like:

May run out of work in 3 days; requesting more
Requesting 10800 seconds of work
Sending request to scheduler...
Scheduler...........succeeded.

And then you'll have several brand new WUs listed as ready to run.

Fram
2005-Feb-28, 02:00 PM
Oh, I didn't know that... I guess that explains why some people said they had up to eight WU's at the same time waiting, while I've only got one at the time :oops:

But it works fine for me like this, so I'll leave it so for me 8)

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 02:03 PM
Tried the "retry." Getting these messagesnow:
Einstein@Home - 2005-02-28 08:58:37 - Message from server: No work sent (daily quota of 16 WU reached)

Einstein@Home - 2005-02-28 08:58:37 - No work from project

Einstein@Home - 2005-02-28 08:58:37 - Deferring communication with project for 1 hours, 0 minutes, and 0 seconds

These came after the messages you had predicted.

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 02:09 PM
I'm also getting a "BOINC work suspended" message on my screensaver. :-?

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 02:13 PM
There is also a message box popping up when I open the file saying:
"BOINC GUI failure. Failed to clean up Windows Sockets Interface."

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 02:14 PM
Oh, I didn't know that... I guess that explains why some people said they had up to eight WU's at the same time waiting, while I've only got one at the time :oops:

But it works fine for me like this, so I'll leave it so for me 8)

Yes, I prefer having only 1 waiting as well; my connect time is set at .3 days, just slightly less than it takes me to finish one. WU, so if I don't manually update credit, it is automatically updated soon, when the next WU comes down.

I don't understand the recommendation for 3 days, except for if the server were often down.

And changing that setting to 3 days didn't help gethen either.

Cheers

Fram
2005-Feb-28, 02:23 PM
I guess they don't want to much update requests being send to their server, and prefer to have only one per 3 days per user instead of 3 or 10 per day or so...

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 02:25 PM
There is also a message box popping up when I open the file saying:
"BOINC GUI failure. Failed to clean up Windows Sockets Interface."

Now this message I recall having recently, perhaps when I had 2 instances competing.

Try rebooting the PC; may clean up rogue remnants that are running.

Before that, you might try disabling the screensaver; just do Desktop|properties|screensaver and chose another one. or blank or none.


Tried the "retry." Getting these messagesnow:

Message from server: No work sent (daily quota of 16 WU reached)
No work from project
Deferring communication with project for 1 hours, 0 minutes, and 0 seconds.

That first message I've never seen before; if the reboot above fails I'll post over to the gurus in Einstein@Home Cruncher's Corner.

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:26 PM
Tried the "retry." Getting these messagesnow:
Einstein@Home - 2005-02-28 08:58:37 - Message from server: No work sent (daily quota of 16 WU reached)

Einstein@Home - 2005-02-28 08:58:37 - No work from project

Einstein@Home - 2005-02-28 08:58:37 - Deferring communication with project for 1 hours, 0 minutes, and 0 seconds

These came after the messages you had predicted.
You reached your dayly quota.
They do not distribute more than 16 WUs per Day and Client.

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 02:29 PM
But my pending credits show only one work unit. The program ran for about 8 hours, off and on yesterday. Does this make sense?

Evan
2005-Feb-28, 02:31 PM
1200 credits pending, still none granted since the 23rd. Or, on the pending credit screen about 1400 credits.

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:32 PM
But my pending credits show only one work unit. The program ran for about 8 hours, off and on yesterday. Does this make sense?
The pending credits page shows only your returned work, that has not yet been credited. An overview of all downloaded WUs is listed under "results"

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 02:35 PM
It's hard for me to believe he downoaded 16 WUs yesterday and yet now has none listed as ready to run and no work to do.

I suspect a misleading error message?

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:36 PM
1200 credits pending, still none granted since the 23rd. Or, on the pending credit screen about 1400 credits.
I have some work from Feb. 24th still not credited.
Sometimes it takes its time....

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 02:37 PM
1200 credits pending, still none granted since the 23rd. Or, on the pending credit screen about 1400 credits.

Evan,

I'll post over at Einstein@Home right away. Is it OK to give them your computer number so they can see the list for themselves?

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:38 PM
It's hard for me to believe he downoaded 16 WUs yesterday and yet now has none listed as ready to run and no work to do.

I suspect a misleading error message?
Possible.
He should have noticed the download of 16 WUs.
16 x 12MB = 192MB.
This takes some time.

Evan
2005-Feb-28, 02:42 PM
Ken,

Sure. It seems broken. I have three computers currently working on this.

49460
38890
49188

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 02:47 PM
I checked the "results" and it does show more work with results "unknown." Does this mean my computer is still working on the data, regardless of the message on the screen saver? One unit, the first downloaded, seems to have been completed and sent successfully. Under the "work" tab, there is a list of things, all seeminly identical, with the status "suspended" after each.

Fram
2005-Feb-28, 02:50 PM
The BA has joined the ranks of those with credit! I haven't checked what that has done to our standings though :D

EDIT: 106 avg, 184 total!

And I'm proud to say that Boinc.Be is 13th on average and 10th on total. Viva Belgica!

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:52 PM
I checked the "results" and it does show more work with results "unknown." Does this mean my computer is still working on the data, regardless of the message on the screen saver? One unit, the first downloaded, seems to have been completed and sent successfully.
28 Feb 2005 4:39:11 UTC 7 Mar 2005 4:39:11 UTC In Progress Unknown New
All Units marked as "In Progress unknown" have been send by the server.
Now the server is waiting for results to be reported.
Once you return your results tey change to "Over - Success" Or Over with an error message.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 02:55 PM
gethen,

I checked over at E@H, and one of the many messages about daily quota was:



I'm guessing a bit here but it looks like you might have extra process(es) running. This could be causing you to churn through a bunch of workunits. Which in turn would be causing the 'daily quota exceded' message.

Try restarting the computer to clear out any running processes. You still will not be able to get more work for as much as 24 hours until the quota resets.

That's sort of what I was saying about the reboot, but adds that since BOINC erroneously thought had been doing a whole bunch of WUs, it imposed the quota.

Unfortunately, if this poster is right you must wait 24 hours to see if the reboot fixed the problem. :(

As an aside, have you had any completed WUs yet? In the team list, you are not listed, so we can't view your computer or see whether you have results pending.

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:55 PM
I checked the "results" and it does show more work with results "unknown." Does this mean my computer is still working on the data, regardless of the message on the screen saver? One unit, the first downloaded, seems to have been completed and sent successfully. Under the "work" tab, there is a list of things, all seeminly identical, with the status "suspended" after each.
Suspended?
Your Client changes to suspense mode when:
1. No work is available
you do have work as some is listed in the work tab.
2. Your perferences tell him to do so.
Change your settings.
Under the File Menu change to "run always".

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 02:59 PM
If nothing seems to help:
Reset the Project.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 03:06 PM
I checked the "results" and it does show more work with results "unknown." Does this mean my computer is still working on the data, regardless of the message on the screen saver? One unit, the first downloaded, seems to have been completed and sent successfully.

The several results with "unknown" is definitely a sign (IMO, AFAIK etc) that what I mentioned in my last post is happening:

Somehow extra BOINC processes got started and incorrectly crunched and reported so many erroneous work units so quickly that BOINC decided your daily quota had been exceeded.

Rebooting will clear out the bad processes: the socket error message should have disappeared.

The client will continue to try to download units at random times, but fail until your daily quota is reset. According to the above post, this won't happen for 24 hours.

So watchful waiting is all I can suggest for now. #-o

Be sure to post back tomorrow morning; I'll try to be here. :)

Laguna
2005-Feb-28, 03:07 PM
But, please, only as the last way out.
Reset means, flushing all your loaded WUs.
That way other will have to wait a long time for their claimed credits.

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 03:08 PM
I tried the reboot. Got the same messages. Decided to go and play my whistle for a while, and now it seems to be running properly again. "...and then, a miracle occurs..."

gethen
2005-Feb-28, 03:10 PM
Forgot to say, "Thanks" to Ken and Laguna2. Sorry to be such a pest.

Fram
2005-Feb-28, 03:13 PM
Hey, that's what the BABB is all about. Pest control.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 03:16 PM
gethen, yes great news.! :) :D :) :D

zebo-the-fat
2005-Feb-28, 03:35 PM
Still no luck getting Home & Work machines to behave differently, but I've decided it doesn't realy matter. The program isn't causung any problems and I can stop it manualy if I need to. (Thanks for the advice Ken, pity it didn't work :D )

(449.54 credits pending) :o

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 03:53 PM
Evan,

Here's the post I put up over at the E@H board:


Hi again.

A user over at the Bad Astonomy BB team has had 21 completed, successful WUs on an Athlon 2700+; and has received credit for only the first one. His WUs take an average of 5.8 hours. (21000 s)

He is really stressing out over failing to get credit.

I've counselled patience, you have to wait 7 days, slower computers are probably working on the verification, etc., but I fear he may lose patience and go back to distributed.net.

He has a second box, running at 803 Mhz with almost as many credits as his Athlon. (each reporting 1 WU.)

It is true that his oldest WU is from Feb 23; which is still within the 7, but yet is almost 5 days. None of the other members of our group has had to wait anything like this long.

He does seem extraordinarily snakebit: that oldest pending WU has one "No Reply" and the fourth computer is fast, but is apparently only on sporadically, and so has no chance of confirming before deadline.

Similar things seem to be going on with the next few WUs in order of age.

Is there anything else I can say to him, or any chance something more is going on than just a bad roll of the dice?

We have several other members (some high profile :)) with 3.2+ Ghz boxes that are just coming into their reporting windows, and I really would be hard pressed if the same thing happens for them.

To put it starkly, how does one respond to new users who ask:

Why are fast computers slow to get credit, and slow computers fast to get credit?

[I understand the reason for the second part: the probablity is high that the other voting computers are faster than you, so you're the last to report & bingo credit is givem.]

I know this oversimplifies the situation, and the FAQ comes close, but talking directly to this point might be good. It seems a shame that we might lose folks just because their computers are too fast!

Rereading, this sounds like a terrible rant, but I truly don't mean it that way -- more a cry from the heart or whatever, and so I'll leave it as is and hope you'll understand.

Ken

Let me know if I should add anything, and whether it's OK to let them see your results page.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 03:58 PM
Still no luck getting Home & Work machines to behave differently, but I've decided it doesn't realy matter. The program isn't causung any problems and I can stop it manualy if I need to. (Thanks for the advice Ken, pity it didn't work :D )

(449.54 credits pending) :o

zebo, me too. :(

The only thing I can think of is the FAQ site's web site did not explicitly make clear that in addition to editing the .xml, you still must go into project preferences and set up separate preferences for home and work; but I expect you'd already done that,

Sorry

George
2005-Feb-28, 04:45 PM
I was curious about the meaning behind the work "name".

For instance, I am crunching on "H1_1092.9_1093.2_.01_T01_Test02_2".

After reading a post in Einstein Cafe, it may breakdown this way...
I could easily be wrong, however.

"H1" - Hanford Observatory 1 (there are two units, I think)

"1092.9" is the frequency band

"1093.2" is the actual target frequency

".01" is the bandwidth (.01 Hz)

Is any of this correct? #-o

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 05:50 PM
Evan,

First note that between posting at Einstein@Home and reading the responses below, another WU has been credited to you :D. Maybe the luck changes?? :)

Below, verbatim, with small format changes



> Why are fast computers slow to get credit, and slow computers fast to get
> credit?
>
> [I understand the reason for the second part: the probablity is high that the
> other voting computers are faster than you, so you're the last to report &
> bingo credit is given.]
>
> I know this oversimplifies the situation, and the FAQ comes close, but
> talking directly to this point might be good. It seems a shame that we might
> lose folks just because their computers are too fast!

I'll add something to the FAQ specifically to address this.

In the way of motivation, you might tell the user that when the slow machines finally DO get around to repeating the work that he has done, his Recent Average Credit (RAC) scores may really shoot through the roof, moving him or her high up in the list.

Bottom line: counsel patience. If the user is returning successful results, they should get lots of credit. But it may take a week or two to start arriving.

Cheers,
Bruce


Ken,
I understand. Just today, I finally passed the threshold where I have more credits awarded than I do in pending status. Not much, but just more.
For most of the work units I've crunched, I am not the fastest. For the ones I have pending, many WUs have been there 5-6 days. One of the credit groups I received came from WUs where the two slowest finally timed out.
I spent the first 5 or 6 days feeling like I was doing all of this work for naught, that all of my results would be thrown away. I know the frustration. I finally reconciled myself that this project is a team effort and that crunching a WU was a mini-team effort. If I was the fastest (or second fastest), I could take some small amount of pride in that I had finished what my mini-team was working on and had gone on to new WUs while they "lagged" behind.

I understood from some post somewhere that WUs were assigned to crunchers based on similar results. I'm not sure I believe this. The guy who consistently beats me for first place is twice as fast as I am. He's on an Athlon 64; I'm on a pokey P4, 2 gig. I'm wondering what kind of computer the guys who are DAYS behind me are running...

If he's in this for short term reward, as in racking credits like a slot machine spins, he'll never be happy. If he's in it for the good feeling that comes from being even a small part of the advancement of science, he might. Trust me. For every major, heart fulfilling, internally rewarding night of observatory time, there are literally hundreds of cold, lonely, disappointing nights of boredom.


Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein

Nicolas
2005-Feb-28, 05:53 PM
Pompompom...

I'm running 2 data blocks now (hyperthreading), each will take 14 hours in total (both done at the same moment, so the total will take 14 hours as well). 8 more hours to go (and my PC isn't always on) so you'll have to wait some more days for my first credits (I hope it will be some, I think it is eating a lot of data now, 18 MB or something like that).

Evan
2005-Feb-28, 06:03 PM
Ken,

I don't care who looks at my stats.

George
2005-Feb-28, 06:17 PM
I keep getting the following message. I have tried several different runs.

Here is the message. I suspect I get less than 10% of the work done before it fails.

"Unrecoverable error for result H1_1092.9__1093.4_0.1_T01_Test02_2 ( - exit code -164 (0xffffff5c))"

Should I start from scratch and download anew?

[BTW - I've been trying since Friday]

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-28, 06:41 PM
Well, I finally got my first credit. yay! That's after having some failures that prevented my PC from completing some units. Grrrr.

And now I have Yet Another Problem (TM). Sometimes BOINC suddenly eats up 100% of my CPU. I have it niced (old unix term) way done,. meaning it should not suck up all my CPU, but it does anyway. I just had to sit and wait for several minutes to do some work. Since this is on my PC at work, this can be trouble for me. :evil: I'll check the FAQ and all that at E@H, but if anyone has any advice for now...

Evan
2005-Feb-28, 07:11 PM
BA,

I presume you are running Windows XP. If so then open task manager using ctrl+alt+delete. Select the "Processes" tab. In the list of running processes find boinc_gui.exe. Right click on it and select "Set priority". Set the level to "Low".

Also check to make sure that "einstein_xxxx" is set to "low".

George
2005-Feb-28, 07:41 PM
I'll check the FAQ and all that at E@H, but if anyone has any advice for now...

Here is their BB which might help.....Cafe Einstein (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_forum.php?id=1)

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-28, 08:38 PM
Actually, I already have it set to low. I think that sometimes there are other processes running that simply don't talk well with E@H (or vice-versa). My screensaver is fine now that I changed it from the "pipes" animation, for example.

But it's frustrating. It hasn't happened since this morning, but I'll keep my eyes open.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 09:56 PM
I keep getting the following message. I have tried several different runs.

Here is the message. I suspect I get less than 10% of the work done before it fails.

"Unrecoverable error for result H1_1092.9__1093.4_0.1_T01_Test02_2 ( - exit code -164 (0xffffff5c))"

Should I start from scratch and download anew?

[BTW - I've been trying since Friday]

George, I checked over at E@H for Computation errors; there are a bunch of posts, but none with exit code -164.

It can't hurt to reboot; if that fails, since there are no reported units yet, maybe try a reset (Project tab, context menu.) This is usually a drastic step, however.

More drastic would be a uninstall/reinstall, and in your case I would also delete the BOINC directory, including the projects subdirectory, since it appears to be einstein code rather than BOINC code that is the problem. Again, you lose your current WUs by doing this, but in your situation it may not be a great loss, since they aren't finishing anyway -- so getting rid of that directory may clean out the corruption.

IOW, all I really have to suggest is "start from scratch." :( You might post the specific error message at Cruncher's Corner (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_forum.php?id=3) and see what they say, or I will for you if you prefer.


On a happier subject, though yet again, one in which I have no qualifications whatever:


I was curious about the meaning behind the work "name".

For instance, I am crunching on "H1_1092.9_1093.2_.01_T01_Test02_2".

After reading a post in Einstein Cafe, it may breakdown this way...
I could easily be wrong, however.

"H1" - Hanford Observatory 1 (there are two units, I think)

"1092.9" is the frequency band

"1093.2" is the actual target frequency

".01" is the bandwidth (.01 Hz)

Is any of this correct? #-o

I thinks this sounds correct! :)

1092.9 sure looks like a frequency to me; though I don't know the units Mhz? Ghz? Someone probably knows what bands LIGO works in?

Maybe the term "bandwidth" here means the same thing, but I would wildly guess that .01 is the step size of the search: ie, it goes, 1092.9...1092.91 etc., in whatever units the 1092.9 is in, not necessarily Hz?

Again, not a scientist; and should not play one on PC. :wink:

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 10:38 PM
Well, I finally got my first credit. yay! That's after having some failures that prevented my PC from completing some units. Grrrr.

And now I have Yet Another Problem (TM). Sometimes BOINC suddenly eats up 100% of my CPU. I have it niced (old unix term) way done,. meaning it should not suck up all my CPU, but it does anyway. I just had to sit and wait for several minutes to do some work. Since this is on my PC at work, this can be trouble for me. :evil: I'll check the FAQ and all that at E@H, but if anyone has any advice for now...

BA, glad the screen saver issue was resolved.

Looking at your Results for computer (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/results.php?hostid=47865) page, you have a lot of "Unknown", "In progress" WUs, downloaded at different times.

I think this may be a sign of the same thing that happened to gethen one page back: Some stray Einstein@Home process may have started working on and corrupting WUs.

The solution in his case was a reboot; you might check before and after whether you have more than one einstein_xxx. process listed; there definitely should only be one. Maybe msconfig's Startup tab to see if BOINC being loaded twice at start up.

On the other hand, if you in fact have 11 WUs listed in your "Work" tab as "ready to run," plus one running, it's not that. But this would mean you had set a long, say 3 day, interval between connections, and so it should have downloaded enough WUs to last that long, and not be downloading two every four hours or so with nothing being sent back up.

If rebooting doesn't work, I'll try to post over at CC tomorrow. You certainly can't have to wait minutes to do work.

As to how this all is supposed to work... Your CPU should be at 100% load whenever E@H is crunching. But, because it is at "low" priority it is supposed to always and graciously give up CPU cycles promptly whenever any other (higher priority) task asks for them. You should not have to, indeed probably should not period, try to force E@Hs CPU time down manually in order to start another app. If it doesn't give up cycles automatically it's being a Bad Einstein(TM).

So if it's not behaving that way after rebooting, you should probably shut down BOINC until someone comes up with an answer.


One other wild stab... Is it that your work apps take a long time to load when you start them? Can you work along OK once they do start? That could mean you need a bigger swap file?

George
2005-Feb-28, 10:58 PM
IOW, all I really have to suggest is "start from scratch." :( You might post the specific error message at Cruncher's Corner (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_forum.php?id=3) and see what they say, or I will for you if you prefer.
Thanks. I'll start fresh.



I was curious about the meaning behind the work "name".

For instance, I am crunching on "H1_1092.9_1093.2_.01_T01_Test02_2".

After reading a post in Einstein Cafe, it may breakdown this way...
I could easily be wrong, however.

"H1" - Hanford Observatory 1 (there are two units, I think)

"1092.9" is the frequency band

"1093.2" is the actual target frequency

".01" is the bandwidth (.01 Hz)

Is any of this correct? #-o

I thinks this sounds correct! :)

1092.9 sure looks like a frequency to me; though I don't know the units Mhz? Ghz? Someone probably knows what bands LIGO works in?

I'll guess Hz due to the size of the receiver, but it's only a wild guess. Hopefully, someone will explain it.

Ken Vogt
2005-Feb-28, 11:11 PM
Certain Einstein@Home team members have profiles.

I like this profile (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/view_profile.php?userid=39900) very much.

It is very complimentary to our team. :D And, incidentally gives a nice plug to the Bad Astronomy website. :wink:

At the bottom of the page you can vote for it to be a "Profile of the Day" and thus appear on the Einstein@Home main page.

I urge you to vote! I mean, it's like a team duty, see? 8) :D

Klausnh
2005-Feb-28, 11:19 PM
I don't like BOINC nearly as much as the RC5-64 project at Distributed.net that I participated in. Stats were updated every day. This business of having three different computers confirming results seems wasteful of resources.

I can't assume they are going for 100% accuracy in this project. It should be safe to assume that most calculations have been done correctly. Distributed.net did so and was successful.

A project at Findadrug (http://www.find-a-drug.com/1tnr-q2r.htm) has this to say about confirming results :

Each job may be executed more than once (known as "redundancy"). Not all jobs may be returned, so performing each job several times improves the chances of obtaining results for that job. In addition, results may vary between PCs (eg because of differences in rounding numbers between different processors)

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Feb-28, 11:22 PM
I rebooted a while back (for other reasons) and it seems to be fine now. We'll see...

George
2005-Feb-28, 11:34 PM
Certain Einstein@Home team members have profiles.

I like this profile (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/view_profile.php?userid=39900) very much.

It is very complimentary to our team. :D And, incidentally gives a nice plug to the Bad Astronomy website. :wink:

At the bottom of the page you can vote for it to be a "Profile of the Day" and thus appear on the Einstein@Home main page.

I urge you to vote! I mean, it's like a team duty, see? 8) :D

Very appropriate, BA, and cool! Got my vote. :)

EvilBob
2005-Feb-28, 11:34 PM
Ok, I've had two P4 computers running this for about 4 days - just checked my stats every single one of my work units has 'client error'. Any ideas? I am behind a proxy server, so maybe that's the problem. What can I try? I am using BOINC 4.23 which they recommend for proxy servers....

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 12:11 AM
Ok, I've had two P4 computers running this for about 4 days - just checked my stats every single one of my work units has 'client error'. Any ideas? I am behind a proxy server, so maybe that's the problem. What can I try? I am using BOINC 4.23 which they recommend for proxy servers....

Bob,

Can you check to see if the messages tabs have any error messages when the WU fails? It certainly sounds like a communication problem, since it's happening to both machines.

You can scroll up in this window to the first instances you see and paste a few surrounding ones to the clipboard. Like enough to see how soon after starting the error occurred, and particular any "Exit status," or error codes of any kind.

You can hold down Cntrl and click each line that you want to copy, and then Right click the highlighted lines and pick copy to clipboard.

I'm not familiar with v4.23, but if it has a task pane, like 4.24 beta, once you have highlighted the lines you want, a clipboard entry appears in the "Tasks" pane, and R-clicking doesn't work.

Paste these error lines in a message & I'll send them, tomorrow, to Cruncher's Corner.

I have no clue about anything proxy, so we'll have to depend on others here or the gurus there.

Evan, who has the most complicated network arrangement imaginable, had success only with the 4.24 beta, despite the very small version difference, so perhaps you might give that a try. My review of it is a couple pages back with how to install; it's still working well for me here (with, admittedly, the simplest topology: single computer>>router>>DSL>>world.)

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 12:14 AM
I'm shutting down my PC now, but I've got less than 2 hours to go before my first 2 (each 15 hours) work packages will be finished. The next 2 are already waiting!

Evan
2005-Mar-01, 12:21 AM
Evilbob,

Try setting BOINC to use HTTP on port 80. If you are behind a proxy you are probably behind a firewall as well. It may not be letting BOINC through. Put the local address of the proxy server in the field given and leave it set for port 80. That will be open for sure as it is used for http traffic.

Tensor
2005-Mar-01, 02:36 AM
Finally,
I got my first credits. Of course now I'll be gone for a week. #-o

EvilBob
2005-Mar-01, 03:34 AM
Evilbob,

Try setting BOINC to use HTTP on port 80. If you are behind a proxy you are probably behind a firewall as well. It may not be letting BOINC through. Put the local address of the proxy server in the field given and leave it set for port 80. That will be open for sure as it is used for http traffic.

Ok, I'll give that a try. I've had it on port 8080, since that's what the proxy settings are... I'll let you know how I go!

Thanks!

EvilBob
2005-Mar-01, 06:41 AM
WooHoo! Now it works... I have 64.27 credits pending. Thanks again!

Evan
2005-Mar-01, 07:07 AM
Glad to help.


Now we see how many of my completed work units begin to fall off the queue. The number of claimed credits is now up to 1648 and rising faster than granted credits. Whats wrong with this system is waiting for triple verification of your work. Credit should be granted when you complete a work unit. The way it is currently structured the credit granted does not reflect the amount of time one has actually granted to the project.

mid
2005-Mar-01, 10:38 AM
If it is like the cancer one, then the points are related to how much hard drive and network you say it can use, irrespective of how much it actually wants. Which means it's a daft measure, but I'm running it for the science, so I don't massively care.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 10:51 AM
How do you count the credtis pending? I've got about 20 MB's completed and waiting for report now

Wolverine
2005-Mar-01, 11:26 AM
How do you count the credtis pending?

They keep track... from the main page (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/), click on "your account", scroll down to "account statistics" and then click on the view button next to "pending credit." As with everything else, it takes a little while for the figures there to reflect recently uploaded results.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-01, 11:30 AM
Speaking of results... at the time of this posting, BABB has risen to #156 in total credit and is inside the top 100 at #95 in RAC. Whee!

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 11:44 AM
"pending credit" = 0, though I got 2 blocks "ready to report" on my pc for several hours. Is it normal to take so long?

Wolverine
2005-Mar-01, 11:49 AM
Yes.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 11:52 AM
Nice... oh well, I'll leave my PC on for the next uhm 10 hours or so, I hope I'll have some credits by then.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-01, 11:58 AM
Patience, grasshopper. :)

Evan has major credit pending, and I'm sitting on over 1,000 yet to be granted... it just takes time. I've been running since the 24th and just now got credit for my third WU.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 12:04 PM
My pc had gone through 8 MB of data when I shut it down and noticed the next day that it did not save the results, hence it had to start over :oops: . I've changed those settings since then. :)

I'm just curious as to how much credits those blocks are worth, just to get an idea.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 12:06 PM
"pending credit" = 0, though I got 2 blocks "ready to report" on my pc for several hours. Is it normal to take so long?

Nicolas,

Early on in this thread I mentioned a maddening feature of BOINC that having a result uploaded doesn't at the same time report credit. Here's a quote (page4):


As best I know, please help out if you can, here's the chain of delay from a WU you upload to the time you see stats

* Your beloved WU uploads

* Credit reported to scheduler:
--This only happens when either:
------- the next WUs are downloaded to you, which in turn depends on the How Often to Connect setting in Project Preferences.
------- you manually do the Update thing (described by tmosher above.)

* Credit is listed as "pending" on the E@H stats link under Your Account:
--Not sure about this; somewhere on their site it says "updated every 6 minutes," but I've not had the anality to trace a given WU through the process.


Since your box has apparently not connected since the WU's uploaded, you can manually do the Update thing: Go to the "Projects" tab and Right click the Einstein project and pick "update." The message window will flash blue, and the last message should say:

Scheduler RPC to (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/EinsteinAtHome_cgi/cgi) succeeded

Your credit won't change right away, because it needs to be confirmed, but it should "soon" turn up on the page Wolverine pointed you to. (Thanks W. :))

If you are on an always-on connection, you might want to set your "Connect to network every X days" option under the Einstein@Home Project preferences to a smaller value, then your credit will be applied for more regularly automatically. I use .3 days, for example.

HTH, and post back if you get an error message instead of one like the above.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 12:12 PM
What you told me to do worked. I got the "succeeded" message. I'm on a continuous connection, and my setting was at 0.1 days.

Now I've got 101.50 + 101.70 credits pending.

Thanks Ken!

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 12:39 PM
Glad to help.
And especial thanks from me as well, Evan.



Now we see how many of my completed work units begin to fall off the queue. The number of claimed credits is now up to 1648 and rising faster than granted credits. Whats wrong with this system is waiting for triple verification of your work. Credit should be granted when you complete a work unit. The way it is currently structured the credit granted does not reflect the amount of time one has actually granted to the project.
So far, none of your credits has timed out--these would display in red. In fact, your oldest WU, 363497, the one I thought sure would time out, just now (5:15 am ET) has been granted credit, and the computer that did it ran about 8 days.

I was personally moved by the comments from Bruce Allen and Star Charter from over at Einstein@Home, which is why I posted them without comment (sentimental old fart, I am.) And that's also why I missed your first post about permitting posting of computer numbers. Apologies.

I admit that in the cold light of day, all of their comments add up, as pretty much everyone's comments here have added up, to "Have Patience."

I do not know how to say any more.


Now at the end of the day, and with the greatest humility and respect, which I owe to you as a Bad Master---this whole thing is supposed to be fun, above all. There are lots of DC projects out there that are fun, some in BOINC. Distributed.net is fun and worthwhile. So if at any time it becomes not fun or stressful, whether or not you decide to wait for the full 1 to 2 weeks they say may be necessary, maybe you should consider your options, as the Brits say.

We would really miss you; I especially for your networking expertise. Oh heck, and I'd really miss your boxes, I know the credit will flow if you'll just be pa... :D

Note that I failed to ask over at Cruncher's Corner (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_forum.php?id=3) your question about why triple verification is needed. I earlier stated that verification was needed to prevent credit stealing and to insure ultimate scientific validity.

But please feel free to go to CC and ask Bruce and the gang there. It's free, no registration, and if there's any password it's that big hex string you activated with.

It's their verification system, it's clear from their responses above that they don't think it's broken, so they must believe it necessary, but if you ask, I'm sure they'll give you their reasons.

There's plenty in their FAQ and Getting Started page about what the verification scheme is; but nothing about why. Go for it. :)

Now, I am 59 and this medium of communication is not natural to me, smileys or no, and so I can only assure you that nothing I've said is intended to be derogatory, flip or insincere. If something seems so, PM me and I will try to be clearer.

edit: to fix a quote tag

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 12:55 PM
What you told me to do worked. I got the "succeeded" message. I'm on a continuous connection, and my setting was at 0.1 days.

Now I've got 101.50 + 101.70 credits pending.

Thanks Ken!

Ah, but the long wait for granted credit is just beginning! :) You might just find other posts in this thread about how that does or does not work. :)

When your box does connect to download new WUs, how many does it get at one time? I know that I tried a .1 day setting, thinking that that would make it download just one new WU shortly after it had begun a new one. But instead it downloaded 8 or so, and so would then not connect or report again for several days.

I then tried .4 days, with similar results.

I've settled on .3 days, which is just a bit less than my average WU time of 9.7 hours. This works as desired: Exactly one WU comes down about an hour or so after the last one goes up, and credit is then automatically updated at the same time.

But I admit, I still "occasionally" do the manual update thing, just to be safe. :)

You will have to experiment with this setting based on the speed of your WUs. Let us know what works.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 01:10 PM
Thanks. I'll start fresh.
Wish you luck. Let us know. Watch the log. :)



I'll guess Hz due to the size of the receiver, but it's only a wild guess. Hopefully, someone will explain it.
Ah yes, frequency is the inverse of wavelength! #-o :oops: I'll go back in my crunching box now and stay away from the science. :)

**************
In that crunching box there are however people who I can call my intellectual peers: From Cruncher's Corner:



Trying to connect, and I keep getting :

'boinc failed to log in to http://einstien.phys.uwm.edu/, please check account id & try again.'

You have mis-typed the URL. It is "einstein" not "einstien".

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 01:23 PM
Finally,
I got my first credits. Of course now I'll be gone for a week. #-o
Tensor, Welcome to the Einstein@Home BABB Team First Light Club(TM).

And welcome to all those who got a result before the club's formation, in particular BA.

Note: the club is entirely virtual and mythical.

************
BA, Glad you've had Yet Another Solution(TM), at least a tentative one. Hope it lasts; we'll all be here to help if it don't.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 01:42 PM
If it is like the cancer one, then the points are related to how much hard drive and network you say it can use, irrespective of how much it actually wants. Which means it's a daft measure, but I'm running it for the science, so I don't massively care.

mid,

Don't know about other projects, but I think in E@H credit is based solely on CPU time consumed per verified result. It pretty much has to be this way in BOINC since the different projects have such different scales. In climateprediction.net, for example, WUs take months, and credit is granted many times during each WU in proportion to CPU time. So seti credit and E@H, etc., should always nearly reflect the same amount of "work," even though the "work units" are different sizes and may be verified differently.


Klausnh,
Thanks also for your post about verification in findadrug.

*************
Even distributed.net must have some kind of verification: how could they risk losing the key they will have looked years for to a spurious or fraudulent WU?

mid
2005-Mar-01, 02:15 PM
Thanks Ken - I'm now running on two boxes, so we'll see which wins. The Tortoise (500MHz P3, but on all day), or The Hare (Athlon 2.6+, but only on in the evenings normally)

Hmm, I wonder if there's a client for my Alpha Tru64 box? 8)

ah. No, there isn't. Still, some of the fastest Seti@Home people were running Tru64, so maybe they will do a build soon; I've not got the time myself.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 02:41 PM
Ken, I don't have much time now to answer, but it normally downloads 2 packages, as I use 2 (virtual) processors on it (hyperthreading). Thanks for the help!

Evan
2005-Mar-01, 02:42 PM
Mid,

I vote for the Athlon. If you compare benchmark results for the Athlons to the P4 CPUs the difference in integer and FPU performace is striking. My Athlon XP 2700 is nearly twice as fast as a P4 3.4ghz CPU.

The reason is that AFAIK the P4 FPU is no different from the original Pentium FPU. Intel has done nothing to improve it. The Pentium FPU takes 2 clocks per calculation whereas the Athlon takes only one per calculation.

Fram
2005-Mar-01, 02:42 PM
3 credits pending, one WU crunching away, so I have checked the team standings meanwhile. We're 88 on average and 146 on total, so that's going great. Sarah is our highest team member on average (768), and Ken on total (463).
It's a good sign that we're that high yet on average, this means our total ranking will climb further as well, certainly because there are still team members joining... We're with 32 now!

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 03:36 PM
Evan,

I've always run Intel, but you're making me think AMD more and more. Cooler too, no? As in temperature, not kewlness. :)

***************
Meanwhile, on topic, here's another thing you can do with the stats site in my sig.

Click on the "here" next to "Position in World Stats." Find us (now 162. )Scroll to the right and there are checkboxes for comparing teams. Check BABB and as many others as you want. I chose #127 slashdot 8) .

Scroll to the top and click "Compare" and you get a graph that you can eyeball to see about when we'll catch them.

Of course, the graphs will look better the more days of data there are.

And now that we're in the top 200, you can use this link http://www.boincstats.com/stats/team_stats.php?pr=einstein&st=0&to=200 to see all the first 200, but then you have to search for BABB.

We have a good long way to go to catch Einstein at work or Fran's BOINC.BE (now top 10 :)) or even, yes, AMD users; but keep in mind many of the biggest teams were in the test phase big time, and all that credit carried over.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Mar-01, 03:47 PM
Success! I finaly got some credit granted! :D
85.92 granted, 536.13 pending

(Why does this result box not update or does it just take time?)

(The seti server seems to be down again :( )

Evan
2005-Mar-01, 03:55 PM
Ken,

The Athlon and the P4 are both hot running chips. One thing that may be killing performance on the P4 is how it reacts to 100% CPU usage. The P4 is so hot running in the higher clock speeds that it will fall back to lower internal clock speed automatically to keep internal temps in a safe range. I've heard it is actually possible to run a P4 without a heat sink in which case it will run at about 100 mhz.

The Athlon doesn't do this. It simply depends on adequate cooling and runs at full speed all the time as well as having a much more efficient design.

The P4 is a very inefficient CPU design. This was an intentional design decision on the part of Intel. The reason is that the P4 is designed for scalability of clock speed. In doing so certain compromises had to be made that have a strong impact on efficiency. The P4 design is intended to be scalable to at least 8 ghz with few design changes.

Athlon on the other hand is at the wall in the current 32 bit design. That is why the introduction and acceptance of the Athlon 64 is so important to AMD. They are grinding their teeth over the delays in Microsoft releasing a 64 bit XP OS compiled for the Athlon 64. Microsoft has been promising it for ages but has yet to deliver. When they do and apps that are recompiled to take advantage of 64 bit CPU bandwidth become available, programs like this project could see an 80% improvement in performance.

George
2005-Mar-01, 08:10 PM
Thanks. I'll start fresh.
Wish you luck. Let us know. Watch the log. :)
I deleted and reloaded the first version. Saved to file, but could not launch. I downloaded the second (ver. 4.24) on top of the prior version. It states I am running "application einstein 4.79", which seem to be doing fine at this time. I will frown if it goes down. :P

I'll know more once a work is completed and uploaded. Thanks for your help.

I did use Norton to fix > 1000 registry problems, which may, or may not, have been due to my hatchet job on the earilier downloads. :-?




I'll guess Hz due to the size of the receiver, but it's only a wild guess. Hopefully, someone will explain it.
Ah yes, frequency is the inverse of wavelength! #-o :oops: I'll go back in my crunching box now and stay away from the science. :)
No, I meant Hz as opposed to MHz or kHz. I wasn't really thinking wavelength. However, at 1300 Hz, wavelength would be about 230 km! Maybe the scale is kHz? #-o

Psi-less
2005-Mar-01, 08:20 PM
I'm still reading so forgive me if someone's already asked, but I created an account, downloaded and installed, stuck myself into Team BABB, but I haven't gotten any projects. I've looked all over the Einstein webpage, but I must be missing it. What do I do to download my first project?

Psi-less

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 08:33 PM
I'm still reading so forgive me if someone's already asked, but I created an account, downloaded and installed, stuck myself into Team BABB, but I haven't gotten any projects. I've looked all over the Einstein webpage, but I must be missing it. What do I do to download my first project?

Psi-less

Welcome, Psi-less!

Did you get the email from Einstein@Home? If so, in the BOINC client, you need to attach BOINC to the Einstein@Home project:

In the BOINC program, click Settings|Attach to Project... and then enter the URL and ID from that email. It should then automagically download the einstein app & start crunching.

If you got the 4.24 beta, I now see, there is no Settings menu, you just click the Projects tab and choose "Attach to new project" from the task pane. I'll add this to my review.

Let us know if this works. :)

Evan
2005-Mar-01, 08:34 PM
Pending credits are now nearly 2000. I finished one work unit this AM that hasn't even been sent yet to anyone else to work on.

Wait a minute. Something is broken. Many of the work units I have completed are showing as unsent to anyone else. No way credit will be granted if they don't even send them to anyone else.

Psi-less
2005-Mar-01, 09:13 PM
:oops: :oops: :oops: Thanks, Ken! I admit I'm a dingbat. It's downloading very happily, albeit slowly (some day.....an upgrade!). I forgot to check how many that brought our team to. I'll have to check once all the downloading's done.

Psi-less

Fram
2005-Mar-01, 09:32 PM
84 Average, 134 Total (Slshdot on 130, almost there!). Now 34 members, 21 with counted results, and more than 10000 total credit.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 09:32 PM
Success! I finaly got some credit granted! :D
85.92 granted, 536.13 pending

(Why does this result box not update or does it just take time?)

(The seti server seems to be down again :( )
zebo, Welcome to the Einstein@Home BABB Team First Light Club(TM)!

(the following edited to include URL; thanks to Nicolas later on for help :))

From the post about the credit granting chain (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=424621#424621); about halfway down the post, (Page 4):


* Credit appears on 3rd party sites like boincstats.com: (edited)
--E@H posts stats files as compressed XML (don't ask me what these are) to a FTP site, several times a day. 3rd parties have routines that quickly format them for their sites, but the time they actually appear varies, so different sites may show slightly different numbers
The mundayweb stats boxes are 3rd party so are delayed maybe 6 hours, more or less.

BTW, does anyone know how to write the php code for a link to a specific post in a thread like this? Referring to "Page 4" instead of giving a link is so last century. :)



I deleted and reloaded the first version. Saved to file, but could not launch. I downloaded the second (ver. 4.24) on top of the prior version. It states I am running "application einstein 4.79", which seem to be doing fine at this time. I will frown if it goes down. :P

I'll know more once a work is completed and uploaded. Thanks for your help.

I did use Norton to fix > 1000 registry problems, which may, or may not, have been due to my hatchet job on the earilier downloads. :-?

Good so far, long may it continue. :) Hard to believe 1000 entries. I did a quick look in regedit for BOINC, and there seem about the usual number of entries; for "einstein" the only one not in some other app's recent files list was as Direct Draw's most recent app. So we learn today that E@H's graphics display uses direct draw, for whatever that may mean.


No, I meant Hz as opposed to MHz or kHz. I wasn't really thinking wavelength. However, at 1300 Hz, wavelength would be about 230 km! Maybe the scale is kHz? #-o
Well, I was thinking like: Giant detectors implies big waves implies it runs at giga hertz. #-o Brain never did the 1/f thing. Please understand, the errors I make are 8th grade stuff. :)

But LISA will have a huge baseline (2 satellites), and LIGO has two detectors, in WA and LA, as you noted in your parsing of the WU name; and 230 km could well be the wavelength scale, but prollly not the frequency scale! #-o

By the way, I'm sure they would appreciate and respond over at Cruncher's Corner to a direct question about the name format. The search function is primitive & the forum is new so they won't jump on you even if the question was somewhere posed before --- I know you looked but couldn't find it.


Evan,

What you say makes good sense. If you think it won't provoke an AMD vs Intel flaming war, when I get time I'll post a thread in here about a "sweet spot" for AMD prices versus value; the $1000 ones are out of my league.


********************
re: sig: Amazing how the Einstein quote below can be applied to distributed computing, and our passion for counting coup, I mean credit; who knew Einstein was talking about Einstein@Home? Talk about spooky action at a distance. :)

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 09:34 PM
Ken vogt, the "paper" icon on the top left of a post houses it's specific "on top" URL.

The Bad Astronomer
2005-Mar-01, 09:38 PM
But LISA will have a huge baseline (2 satellites),

LISA is designed to have three satellites. They will be separated by 5 million kilometers. It's a fascinating observatory; people here should read about it (http://lisa.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html). It's part of the same general NASA "theme" that includes the three satellites I work for.

Assuming it survives the current budget woes, that is. But that's off-topic for this thread.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Mar-01, 09:44 PM
It's all starting to make sense and seems to work :D

171.6 credits granted, 643.5 pending.

.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 11:24 PM
Ken vogt, the "paper" icon on the top left of a post houses it's specific "on top" URL.
Nicolas, I didn't know that: thanks :). Works perfect! I wish the E@H board was phpBB.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-01, 11:35 PM
Pending credits are now nearly 2000. I finished one work unit this AM that hasn't even been sent yet to anyone else to work on.

Wait a minute. Something is broken. Many of the work units I have completed are showing as unsent to anyone else. No way credit will be granted if they don't even send them to anyone else.

Evan, they are touching on this in the CC thread I posted to; here's the last one:


I joined a few days ago. I've downloaded about 24 WU and uploaded about 16 completed ones. What bothers me is that only one of those WUs have been sent to any other computers. Why is this?
Steve,

The locality scheduler, which decides what work to send to a given user, uses a random algorithm to assign data files (and hence the associated WU) to a given host. In your case, the file that you have has been assigned to at least one other user, who has picked up some of the WU. You'll find that within the next 2-3 days several other users will get the same data file and start doing the same WU as well.

Just be patient: other machines WILL get assigned the work, and you will get credit (lots of it!).

Bruce
And, also in reply to Steve,

I had the same problem early on. There is some discussion in some thread on this, but the bottom line is just wait a few days to a week or so. Most computers are given a week or so for the work and all the WU may not go out for 3 or 4 days (added bold-KV). Face it not everyone that gets a WU completes it and sends it back. Eventually they will be sent again till the work is done and credits are given.



The "other thread" referred to is probably (I'd link but there is no doubt a pro forma registration that would mess it up) a post in the "Problems and Bug reports" section, titled "14 completed WU, no credit." That thread has similar posts, along with, honesty compels me to add, the beginnings of a theory that AMD processors are having this problem disproportionately.

I don't have time to check through all of your WUs, but in line with the bold face above, if you have 4 or 5 day old WU's that still have not been sent to anyone else, then you indeed have a new problem outside the bounds of their validation model, and they would need to respond to it.

But I did in fact check all of your WUs thru Feb 25; all except the latest 3 have been sent to at least 3 computers; most all of which have had one confirmation.

Those latest 3 from Feb 25 have been sent to a second box; in two, or maybe it was one, of those cases the second box has corroborated.

The fact that these particular WUs have not been sent to a third box is thus in line with the bold face note above, that is all WUs issued to you no more than 4 days ago have in fact be sent to at least 2 other boxes. So, while very, very unusual, your experience is compatible with the standard advice, which you know by heart: Patience, grasshopper, lotsa credit will someday come.


Once again, the two issues, IMO, AFAIK, etc., boil down to:

*Are your results abnormal, outside the bounds of their validation system? No.

*Why on earth (in your opinion, which I respect) did they choose to validate in such a stupid way? For that, as I say, it can't hurt for you to ask them. :)

Nicolas
2005-Mar-01, 11:39 PM
Einstein@Home - 2005-03-02 00:36:41 - Sending request to scheduler: http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/EinsteinAtHome_cgi/cgi
Einstein@Home - 2005-03-02 00:36:44 - Scheduler RPC to http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/EinsteinAtHome_cgi/cgi failed
Einstein@Home - 2005-03-02 00:36:44 - No schedulers responded
Einstein@Home - 2005-03-02 00:36:44 - Deferring communication with project for 52 minutes and 38 seconds

I can't update my finished packages. Does this mean the server is unavailable, or is their something wrong with my settings? Updating earlier this day for an earlier package worked.

Evan
2005-Mar-01, 11:44 PM
I have 13 work units I have completed since and including Feb 26 which have not been sent to any other box.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-02, 12:06 AM
I can't update my finished packages. Does this mean the server is unavailable, or is their something wrong with my settings?

I'm receiving the same error messages, perhaps a problem has scheduler problem has developed like back on the 26th (doesn't appear to be anything on your end). The last time this happened, it created "phantom" WUs... hope that's not the case this time around. (There's a discussion on that here (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=1151).)

EvilBob
2005-Mar-02, 12:10 AM
I now have one computer working, but the other keeps getting a 'Master file Fetch failed" message. The settings on both computers appear to be exactly the same... I have even dl'ed a new BOINC and done a complete uninstall/ reinstall. Anyone else with this problem?

Wolverine
2005-Mar-02, 12:10 AM
I have 13 work units I have completed since and including Feb 26 which have not been sent to any other box.

I've had several like that myself (8 in all IIRC), just give it time and you'll see the work being sent to other machines.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-02, 12:12 AM
I now have one computer working, but the other keeps getting a 'Master file Fetch failed" message. The settings on both computers appear to be exactly the same... I have even dl'ed a new BOINC and done a complete uninstall/ reinstall. Anyone else with this problem?

Are you trying to get the 2nd box going right now? If so be advised there may be server problems as noted above.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-02, 12:21 AM
THe server being down woudln't be a real problem to me, but one of those packages times out tomorrow (3rd)...EDIT: it's the 4th but anyway...

EvilBob
2005-Mar-02, 12:28 AM
I now have one computer working, but the other keeps getting a 'Master file Fetch failed" message. The settings on both computers appear to be exactly the same... I have even dl'ed a new BOINC and done a complete uninstall/ reinstall. Anyone else with this problem?

Are you trying to get the 2nd box going right now? If so be advised there may be server problems as noted above.

I am, but it hasn't managed anything successfully yet! I'll wait and see what happens when their server is back up.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-02, 01:59 AM
It seems the server issue(s?) has cleared up. For future reference, there's a status page here (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/server_status.php) (which I'd inadvertently overlooked :oops:).

Wolverine
2005-Mar-02, 03:49 AM
Update: work was being performed on the scheduler and it wasn't restarted. Downtime was ~90 minutes but all is well.

mid
2005-Mar-02, 10:36 AM
Well, you guys were right - the Athlon is currently ahead, as it's already on it's second work unit. The first one is "pending" now.

In other news, we're 129 - ahead of /.

Woo!

Nicolas
2005-Mar-02, 05:28 PM
OK uploading worked now. I've got 410 credits pending. 8)

iFire
2005-Mar-02, 05:54 PM
Yay! I have 96.26 credit. None pending at the moment.

(I think I have figured out why I can't see stats images while here at school..... stupid Websence blocking the site.)

Kristophe
2005-Mar-02, 05:57 PM
Hey, I've broken 1000. Can I get a woot woot?

Psi-less
2005-Mar-02, 06:05 PM
Hey, I've broken 1000. Can I get a woot woot?

=D> =D> WOOT! WOOT!!! =D> =D>

I'm only halfway through working on my first one..... :cry:

Psi-less

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-02, 06:25 PM
Yay! I have 96.26 credit. None pending at the moment.

(I think I have figured out why I can't see stats images while here at school..... stupid Websence blocking the site.)

iFire and also mid:

Welcome to the Einstein@Home BABB Team First Light Club(TM)!

Not as cool as a woot woot, but we old people can't do that. :)

(mid is eligible for the club 'cause his pending crdit has now gone gold :).)

Psi-less
2005-Mar-02, 06:30 PM
I think BABB was in 88th position yesterday, but have moved up to 74th today! :o

Psi-less

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-02, 08:37 PM
I think BABB was in 88th position yesterday, but have moved up to 74th today! :o

Psi-less

This is indeed a fantastic position, but I believe it is for Recent Average Credit (RAC), the same stat as listed as "Avg. credit" on the BOINC "Work" tab.

Generally folks here have been posting total credit numbers. Of course the fact that our RAC position is higher than our total position implies we are moving up.

You can see our total credit in the E@H "Top Teams" page by clicking the "Total credit" hyperlink at the top of that column; the display then sorts by total credit. Last report by mid this was about 129.

It's a bit easier to find our place in the totals by clicking the Detailed BABB stats link in my sig; then click the "here" link under our total.

This is a 3rd party site, so its numbers may be a few hours older than shown on the E@H pages.

Now, IMO, RAC is a sneaky thing designed to hold our feet to the fire. If you dare to turn off your computer a few more hours a day, your RAC will plunge, and you will be drawn by the Unseen Mystical Force (UMF), the same force which causes us to buy electronic gizmos we don't need, to give more cycles to Einstein@Home. :)

------------------
Wolverine, thanks for the heads up on the ServerStatus page.

Fascinating that the Oldest Unsent Result is 5 d 7 h 47 m .

And nearly 19000 members, growin by 1000 a day. :)

Psi-less
2005-Mar-02, 08:45 PM
Sorry, but the UMF is going to have to fight it out with the MOB (Messier Object Beasties) that sit under my desk chanting, "OIII filter....OIII filter..." over and over and.... :D

Psi-less

lek
2005-Mar-02, 09:16 PM
Just joined the group yesterday...

Managing to do a wu in bit over 6 hours... But then i got greedy and clocked a bit (torturing my poor lil 2GHz athlon64 at 2.4GHz atm) and should be well within 6 hours/wu now ;)

Wolverine
2005-Mar-03, 12:42 AM
Heya lek, nice to see you aboard. :)

Careful -- overclocking can lead to the return of invalid results. You may wish to search through their message boards on the subject.

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-03, 01:17 AM
Psi-less, are you going to do a marathon with that filter? Post pics of all the objects on a website? Can we see? :)

Welcome lek! You've heard it before here, but "have patience" with that fast bad boy for results to be confirmed. :)

-----------------

BTW, I've been looking for a one-click stop for personal stats similar to the link in my sig. for team stats. Herewith:

Go to the E@H "Your Account" page. At the bottom is your 4 or 5 digit Account Number. Not the long activation code.

Enter that number into this template:

(http://www.boincstats.com/stats/user_graph.php?pr=einstein&id=XXXXX)

All there is to it. Beware that boincstats. com is busy and a bit slow.

As with the similar team stats page, there are graphs at the bottom and all kinds of links you can waste time with:

Link to position in Team Stats takes you to a listing of our reporting team members, similar to the official Einstein@Home view, but sorted in credit order, and with all the familiar boincstats.com extras. Like compare to see if the BA will overtake Evan. :wink:

Honesty compels me to repeat that my lead, which will be short-lived anyway, exists only because even though it's a team list, it includes all my credit, including previous team & the test phase.

Another link I like there is Compare with users with the same number of hosts. Amazingly, I am now #23 on this one, but sure to plummet, as the faster folks begin to accumulate big time credit.

Finally, if you're following along at home, for those of you involved in more than one BOINC project, use:

(http://www.boincstats.com/stats/boinc_user_graph.php?pr=bo&id=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx)

where the xxx is your long activation code. Gives all the goodies as above, but multiplied by the number of projects you are in. Including a pie chart split by project.

The whole thing is either awesome, or awful overkill, depending on your POV. Enjoy!

BTW the sig url won't work with php url tags; I can't post html, so I don't know if it will work at all on this board. You could post to your website or store an html file of it locally, to have a quick home link to your graphics.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-03, 03:39 AM
Wolverine, thanks for the heads up on the ServerStatus page.

Glad to share.


And nearly 19000 members, growin by 1000 a day. :)

And that's just those w/credit... they list 44,935 total in the database at the time of this posting.

Which makes me wonder since it's fresh in my mind... will they end up having to purge users chronically reporting invalid results? It's understandable that some have experienced occasional bugs, or have had minor issues due to "pilot error." Like I posted on their board though, at some point, it's just not feasible to keep sending data to hosts like this (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/results.php?hostid=39728) (... and I thought that was bad enough until I stumbled across this one (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/results.php?hostid=34570)).

I'll be curious to see how they handle such situations, since they unduly tax the system.

Psi-less
2005-Mar-03, 05:18 AM
Ken, there's nothing I'd love more than to do some astrophotography, but....our scope's a 10 inch Dob, no drives and I doubt my ability to hand-track this cannon during a long exposure. Hmmmmm....maybe if I cut out the coffee.... :lol: I'll think the pictures will have to wait until we either win the lottery or we win one of the snazzy, wee little scopes at a starparty. I would love to take pictures of the moon with the Dob, though. Next best thing to being there. (Well, not really. The next best thing would be to orbit it. Man, I wish!)

Psi-less

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-03, 07:23 AM
Evan and I have been posting in a thread over at Cruncher's Corner, here (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=1120&sort=timestamp_asc), about the large number of pending credits. Some of the early exchange has been posted here.

But please see the last few posts, especially starting with blerton's. Some quick excerpts:

Even if the expiry date is passed for the initial work before the subsequent work is processed, everything will still be fine in the end.

[This] implies to me that the 7 day deadline is really irrelevant: credit is given to all who have ever successfully returned a WU once some future gang of 3 confirms in its own 7 day window.

I can assure both of you that the above is most definitely the case. I've actually seen instances where it has take several weeks for the final third valid result to come in at which point everybody in the group gets their credit. You really have nothing to worry about.

If that is the case then I'm fine with that. :o :o :D

(Quotes rearranged a little, I hope not unfairly.)

Now as I just wrote over there, maybe that has been a clearly stated policy of Einstein@Home all along and I have been misleading this group and causing needless worry. But I don't see the policy clearly stated on their getting started page, and a quick re-skim of the CC posts seems to show no such clearly stated policy. And the Time reported and deadline (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/explain_state.php?field=result_time) page (shown when you click "explain" in that column of your "Results for user" page) is frightening: No hint of "Do not worry, credit will one day flow" on that page; hopefully they will soften it..

Bottom line though, is this is real good news for all of us, especially those with fast boxen, and if I may be allowed, the harried people who try to help. :)

mid
2005-Mar-03, 10:48 AM
iFire and also mid:

Welcome to the Einstein@Home BABB Team First Light Club(TM)!

Not as cool as a woot woot, but we old people can't do that. :)

(mid is eligible for the club 'cause his pending crdit has now gone gold :).)

Thanks Ken. That pending credit didn't take particularly long to go gold at all, so I've no cause for complaint so far.

And wow - from Tuesday to Wednesday our 'new credit' rate doubled! We're now an amazing 114 overall.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-03, 12:42 PM
BTW, I've been looking for a one-click stop for personal stats similar to the link in my sig. for team stats.

Ken, have you seen this page (http://www.boincsynergy.com/stats/teams.php?team=1064&project=eah)?

Psi-less
2005-Mar-03, 01:32 PM
Finally(!) got that first WU done and on to number two. Note to self: prod husband about need for new computer again.

Psi-less

kucharek
2005-Mar-03, 01:41 PM
As I began to appear in the statistics, I may tell that I joined BABBstein two days ago. Let's see where we can get us on the ranks.

Harald

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-03, 01:44 PM
Which makes me wonder since it's fresh in my mind... will they end up having to purge users chronically reporting invalid results? It's understandable that some have experienced occasional bugs, or have had minor issues due to "pilot error." Like I posted on their board though, at some point, it's just not feasible to keep sending data to hosts like this (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/results.php?hostid=39728) (... and I thought that was bad enough until I stumbled across this one (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/results.php?hostid=34570)).

I'll be curious to see how they handle such situations, since they unduly tax the system.

Hi Wolverine,

That last link is truly amazing, I gave up after pressing "Next 20" about 3 times; nothing but client error.

I am afraid I am in bad odor over at CC right now, but if you don't have time I will one day post this over there.

Edit:


Ken, have you seen this page (http://www.boincsynergy.com/stats/teams.php?team=1064&project=eah)?
No, it looks great. :)

I had been to the boincsynergy site before, when looking at their signatures, but failed to find their stats. It's just a YMMV, I'd think, on which look you like best. Their graphs do look much better than boincstats though; thanks as always for the link.

Gotta love those monotone increasing "Total credit" graphs. :)


Finally(!) got that first WU done and on to number two. Note to self: prod husband about need for new computer again.

Psi-less
When prodding husband..., I mean when speaking to husband, be sure to say you need the computer for "work," not "Work Units." :)


As I began to appear in the statistics, I may tell that I joined BABBstein two days ago. Let's see where we can get us on the ranks.

Harald
Guten Tag Harald,

Germany is of course host to a huge number of Einstein@Home teams, it's an honor to have you join our international team. :) Willkommen!

In fact, your first credit has been posted, so Welcome to the Einstein@Home BABB Team First Light Club(TM)!

Wolverine
2005-Mar-03, 02:02 PM
GAH, ignore this... somehow I managed to edit an old post rather than submit a new one... :oops:

George
2005-Mar-03, 02:11 PM
:( Looks like I am still stuggling.


<core_client_version>4.24</core_client_version>
<message> - exit code -164 (0xffffff5c)
</message>
<stderr_txt>

***UNHANDLED EXCEPTION****
Reason: Access Violation (0xc0000005) at address 0x09823000 read attempt to address 0x09823000

This was located under my account. I viewed the "results" located under "Account statistics".

I had set STOPzilla to sleep mode and I am running Norton anit-virus. Could either of these trip the comm.?

Wolverine
2005-Mar-03, 02:32 PM
Ken, have you seen this page (http://www.boincsynergy.com/stats/teams.php?team=1064&project=eah)?
No, it looks great. :)

Indeed, kudos to those who did the coding and layout. That's the best fit I've found so far covering the most ground in the least space, and IMHO it's a bit easier on the eyes. :)

Ken Vogt
2005-Mar-03, 02:36 PM
:( Looks like I am still stuggling.


<core_client_version>4.24</core_client_version>
<message> - exit code -164 (0xffffff5c)
</message>
<stderr_txt>

***UNHANDLED EXCEPTION****
Reason: Access Violation (0xc0000005) at address 0x09823000 read attempt to address 0x09823000

This was located under my account. I viewed the "results" located under "Account statistics".

I had set STOPzilla to sleep mode and I am running Norton anit-virus. Could either of these trip the comm.?

George,

I just posted the above for you over at E@H bug reports.

Since I can't see your computer (catch 22: can't see computer if no WU is completed) could you perhaps post, just in text form, the info in your "Computer Summary" page under "Your Account." They probably will need that.

I have to log off now, but will keep on top of this.

Did you bang the box a good hard one with an open fist? Never works, but feels good...:)

Nicolas
2005-Mar-03, 03:27 PM
I've got first light!

Is there any explanation why I had 4 blocks of each more than 100 credits, and that now, when one block is verified, I was awarded 89 credits (it was pending at 110 credits or something like that).

I've got 306 credits pending.

Wolverine
2005-Mar-03, 03:44 PM
I've got first light!

Is there any explanation why I had 4 blocks of each more than 100 credits, and that now, when one block is verified, I was awarded 89 credits (it was pending at 110 credits or something like that).

I've got 306 credits pending.

Yay for first light. :)

Yes -- when credit is "pending", that's not a guarantee that you'll receive the amount claimed. The FAQ says:


Each machine that does work will claim a slightly different amount of credit. For fairness and uniformity, we have adopted the BOINC/SETI standard way to determine how much credit to avoid. Since each unit of work is done by more than one machine, we use the credit claims of all these machines to determine how much credit to award. Every valid result for a given unit of work is then awarded exactly the same amount of credit.

To determine this, if three or more results are valid, the high and low credit claims are dropped, and the remaining credit claims are averaged. If less than two results are valid, the LOW credit claimed is awarded.

Looking at your results (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/workunit.php?wuid=400924), all three of you were awarded the middle value, just like it's supposed to work. :)

George
2005-Mar-03, 05:28 PM
I just posted the above for you over at E@H bug reports.
Thanks. You'll understand any response better than me.


Since I can't see your computer (catch 22: can't see computer if no WU is completed) could you perhaps post, just in text form, the info in your "Computer Summary" page under "Your Account." They probably will need that.

ok...how's this? :


Domain name George
Time zone UTC -6 hours
Name George
Created 28 Feb 2005 14:50:57 UTC
Total Credit 0.00
Recent average credit 0.00
CPU type GenuineIntel Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.00GHz
Number of CPUs 1
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, Service Pack 1, (05.01.2600.00)
Memory 254.48 MB
Cache 976.56 KB
Swap space 623.61 MB
Total disk space 55.84 GB
Free Disk Space 45.34 GB
Measured floating point speed 1006.74 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 2123.49 million ops/sec
Average upload rate 20.64 KB/sec
Average download rate 78.22 KB/sec
Average turnaround time 0 days
Results 8
Number of times client has contacted server 9
Last time contacted server 28 Feb 2005 20:34:59 UTC
% of time client is on 99.9831 %
% of time host is connected 100 %
% of time user is active 99.9674

I am reluctant to smack my computer, as I fear it will fuss at me. I hate being insulted by a machine. :P

lek
2005-Mar-03, 08:37 PM
Heya lek, nice to see you aboard. :)

Careful -- overclocking can lead to the return of invalid results. You may wish to search through their message boards on the subject.

Thats not the "normal" me :o

Just messing around with my system a bit... Actually trying to transform it into a "quiet" setup, instead of the turbine engine it is at the moment, and clockin is quite good measure of "exactly how much extra cooling i got right now" ;)

George
2005-Mar-03, 10:20 PM
I downloaded a new WindowsXP service pack. It rebooted and it asked for blocking or unblocking of Boinc. I am wondering if it was blocked before. Hopefully, I will learn soon.

Nicolas
2005-Mar-03, 10:23 PM
I downloaded a new WindowsXP service pack. It rebooted and it asked for blocking or unblocking of Boinc. I am wondering if it was blocked before. Hopefully, I will learn soon.

SP2 asks for all programs it does not have blocking info of, if it should block them or not. So most probably it wasn't blocked before, as SP1 does not have that kind of blocking function.

George
2005-Mar-03, 11:09 PM
I downloaded a new WindowsXP service pack. It rebooted and it asked for blocking or unblocking of Boinc. I am wondering if it was blocked before. Hopefully, I will learn soon.

SP2 asks for all programs it does not have blocking info of, if it should block them or not. So most probably it wasn't blocked before, as SP1 does not have that kind of blocking function.

Thanks. :-? I'm at a loss. I feel a lot like Curly (Three Stooges). He once said..."I tried to think, but nutt'n happened".

I'll reset the project and see what happens. If nada, then I'll go to "Attach to new Project".