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Fraser
2017-Dec-08, 08:30 PM
An international team of astronomers, using multiple observatories, have found the youngest and most distant quasar to date.
The post Too Big, Too Soon. Monster Black Hole Seen Shortly After the Big Bang (https://www.universetoday.com/138035/big-soon-monster-black-hole-seen-shortly-big-bang/) appeared first on Universe Today (https://www.universetoday.com).


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WaxRubiks
2017-Dec-08, 08:46 PM
is it too big to be a primordial black hole?

Solfe
2017-Dec-09, 04:03 AM
is it too big to be a primordial black hole?

Yes, primordial black holes are the "seeds" of supermassive black holes, which are found in quasars. So this quasar is "too big" to have formed in the typically modeled fashion.

At this point, I would think that ULAS J1120+0641 will get a lot closer look to troubleshoot observational/modelling problems. They have probably ruled out all of the simple explanations before authoring the paper the article is based on, but there is always a chance that a problem with something in the paper will be found and ULAS J1120+0641 will make more sense. It could be the original authors will find something before others do.

01101001
2017-Dec-09, 05:34 AM
If the data survives, then most likely we just don't understand yet how such a black hole could form so quickly. Our lack of imagination would not be a surprise. It won't be too big, too soon. It will be that our model is not right yet.

Bad Astronomy: THE BLACK HOLE ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER (http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-black-hole-on-the-edge-of-forever)


So there's a problem. Either it's less massive than that (unlikely, the math would have to be off by a lot), or black holes can grow a lot more quickly than we thought. I suspect it's the latter. I'm no expert, and I don't know how that might work (in my defense, neither does anyone else), but it seems the likelier scenario.

01101001
2017-Dec-09, 05:40 AM
is it too big to be a primordial black hole?

A web search away: Wikipedia: Primordial black hole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_black_hole)


Depending on the model, primordial black holes could have initial masses ranging from 10^−8 kg (the so-called Planck relics) to more than thousands of solar masses.

So lightweights.

WaxRubiks
2017-Dec-09, 06:00 AM
well, if the hypotheses of a cyclic universe is correct, maybe an early SMBH, is the product of a massive concentration of matter in the previous cycle..?

Ross 54
2017-Dec-09, 04:46 PM
Then everything wasn't reduced to raw energy by the last contraction? That would be surprising.

WaxRubiks
2017-Dec-09, 04:54 PM
Then everything wasn't reduced to raw energy by the last contraction? That would be surprising.

I was thinking of the expansion, matter-to-energy, then big band, and reconversion of some energy to matter.

I was thinking if in a previous cycle, there may have been a very massive black hole that was last to evaporate.....maybe in the next cycle/big bang, a lot of that last BH might have returned to matter in the same relative co-ordinate, and so straight away form another big black hole.........just speculation.

01101001
2017-Dec-09, 07:13 PM
One could speculate like these scientists, who then actually worked at backing it up:
Astronomy: Cooking up supermassive black holes in the early universe (http://www.astronomy.com/news/2017/11/cooking-up-supermassive-black-holes) (2017 November 20)


These observations thus pose a conundrum: How could these supermassive black holes have formed so quickly in the early universe?

A collaboration of Japanese and German researchers believes they have solved the puzzle. Using computer simulations, the researchers recreated conditions found in the early universe to see if they could create a supermassive black hole. Unlike previous models, their simulations factored in supersonic gas streams left over after the Big Bang. That change allowed supermassive black holes to form in a short period of time, in numbers that closely match the population of supermassive black holes we see.

Time destroys the speculation of men, but it confirms nature.
--Marcus Tullius Cicero