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parallaxicality
2018-Feb-06, 04:59 PM
If we ever actually had them?

grant hutchison
2018-Feb-06, 05:01 PM
I think we'd have to call them "space marines", no matter how little sense that actually makes.

Grant Hutchison

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-06, 05:38 PM
Whether they're conducting ops in jungles, deserts, rivers, or urban centers...afoot, at sea, or in the air...we still call them Marines. I see no reason to spacify it just because we've added a new theater of operations. Based on the Marines I know, I doubt they'd think very highly of such a name, anyway.

grant hutchison
2018-Feb-06, 07:27 PM
Whether they're conducting ops in jungles, deserts, rivers, or urban centers...afoot, at sea, or in the air...we still call them Marines.I think in the UK we'd call them Commandos, or perhaps Marine Commandos, in those roles. The Royal Marines nowadays have an "amphibious and commando" remit, but historically the Commandos came from all branches of the service.

"Space commandos" - spacesuits and no underwear? Maybe not.

Maybe we'd follow the line of descent from the original Commando regiments to the UK's Parachute Regiment, Special Air Service and Special Boat Service and call them the Special Space Service.

Grant Hutchison

Trebuchet
2018-Feb-06, 08:26 PM
"Sir, yes sir".

swampyankee
2018-Feb-06, 08:59 PM
Well, various epithets could include Black Devils (https://www.landmarkscout.com/rotterdam-blitz-a-city-on-fire-netherlands/).

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-06, 09:21 PM
I think in the UK we'd call them Commandos, or perhaps Marine Commandos, in those roles.

Rank and file U.S. Marines could be tasked with the roles I mentioned and/or they could involve specialties like Force Recon or the MARSOC Raiders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Raider_Regiment). It just depends on the mission. But they're all still Marines, once and always. However, the latter example of special forces does raise a groan worthy possibility: Space Raiders. Nah, I'm pretty sure no self respecting Marine would go for that, either.

Swift
2018-Feb-06, 10:35 PM
"Sir, yes sir".

:clap: You beat me to it.

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-06, 10:48 PM
"Sir, yes sir".

Only when addressing a commissioned officer. Believe me, you do not want to be dressed down by a Master Gunnery Sergeant for calling him (or her!) "Sir."
I've seen it happen.

slang
2018-Feb-06, 10:52 PM
Doomed.

captain swoop
2018-Feb-07, 12:31 AM
Why not just Soldiers?

Marines are just soldiers based on ships. If they aren't based on ships they shouldn't be Marines.

swampyankee
2018-Feb-07, 10:50 AM
Why not just Soldiers?

Marines are just soldiers based on ships. If they aren't based on ships they shouldn't be Marines.

They’re frequently marines because of history. I can think of a few marine corps: US, UK, Taiwan, South Korea, Netherlands, and a number of similar forces with different names, like the San Marco Brigade.

Heid the Ba'
2018-Feb-07, 11:44 AM
太空海洋

If that is wrong then blame Google translate.

In the French military at various times "Marine" has been interchangeable with "Coloniale" so would apply in space as well.

Jim
2018-Feb-07, 12:03 PM
Only when addressing a commissioned officer. Believe me, you do not want to be dressed down by a Master Gunnery Sergeant for calling him (or her!) "Sir."
I've seen it happen.

"Don't call me sir. I'm not an officer. I work for a living."

(Colorful epithets and familial references removed for brevity.)

skymapper
2018-Feb-07, 05:13 PM
Speak to me of summer
Long winters longer than time can remember
Setting up of other roads
To travel on in old accustomed ways
I still remember the talks by the water
The proud sons and daughters
That in the knowledge of the land
Spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways

Trebuchet
2018-Feb-07, 06:57 PM
"Don't call me sir. I'm not an officer. I work for a living."

(Colorful epithets and familial references removed for brevity.)

I was a Specialist Fifth Class. Once in a while someone would call me "Sarge". I thought, but didn't say, "Don't call me Sarge, I work for a living."

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-07, 07:39 PM
I was a Specialist Fifth Class. Once in a while someone would call me "Sarge". I thought, but didn't say, "Don't call me Sarge, I work for a living."

That was something I never fully got. I could be (and was) both a specialist and a Sergeant. In fact, the basic USAF enlisted job titles were typically Something-Something-Something Specialist, with the "Specialist" part being replaced later with something like "Technician" or "Craftsman" as one progressed through skill levels. I started off as a 322X2B - Avionic Sensor Systems Specialist, Tactical Real-Time Displays, Electro-Optical.

grant hutchison
2018-Feb-07, 08:36 PM
Avionic Sensor Systems Specialist, Tactical Real-Time Displays, Electro-Optical.Now, that's what I call "specialist"! :)

Grant Hutchison

Shaula
2018-Feb-07, 09:36 PM
...I started off as a 322X2B - Avionic Sensor Systems Specialist, Tactical Real-Time Displays, Electro-Optical.
If you hadn't have put "Electro" in there I'd have accused you of making "window cleaner" sound like the most technical job ever.

Jens
2018-Feb-07, 11:25 PM
太空海洋

If that is wrong then blame Google translate.


I could be wrong but I think reads: outer space ocean.

captain swoop
2018-Feb-08, 12:36 AM
They’re frequently marines because of history. I can think of a few marine corps: US, UK, Taiwan, South Korea, Netherlands, and a number of similar forces with different names, like the San Marco Brigade.

And the Marines are part of the Navy so I suppose they could be sailors who wear big hats and boots.

Jens
2018-Feb-08, 01:08 AM
太空海洋

If that is wrong then blame Google translate.

In the French military at various times "Marine" has been interchangeable with "Coloniale" so would apply in space as well.

It's a little long, but here is a better translation:

太空海军陆战队

The way you translated it, Google used the meaning of "marine" as in "marine biology". So the adjective form of sea.

Trebuchet
2018-Feb-08, 01:15 AM
That was something I never fully got. I could be (and was) both a specialist and a Sergeant. In fact, the basic USAF enlisted job titles were typically Something-Something-Something Specialist, with the "Specialist" part being replaced later with something like "Technician" or "Craftsman" as one progressed through skill levels. I started off as a 322X2B - Avionic Sensor Systems Specialist, Tactical Real-Time Displays, Electro-Optical.
In the US Army of 45 years ago, the middle enlisted pay grades were on a dual track system, one for "Specialists" and the other for NCO's. NCO's were generally considered to have some sort of authority over others, specialists did not. Nearly all E-4's were Specialists 4th class, almost none were Corporals. E-5 was about equally divided between Specialist 5 and "Buck" Sergeant. Most E-6's were Staff Sergeants. You could theoretically be a Specialist 7, I think, but I certainly never met one.
Today's Army has done away with that and the only Specialists are E-4's.

My recollection is that in the USAF at that time, E-4's were Sergeants.

SkepticJ
2018-Feb-08, 09:43 PM
The term you're searching for is Space Ranger.

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-08, 10:28 PM
My recollection is that in the USAF at that time, E-4's were Sergeants.

Yes and no. For many years, the USAF E-4 pay grade was meant to serve as a transition from junior enlisted to non-commissioned officer status. Initial promotion to E-4 was with the rank of Senior Airman (abbr: SrA). After serving one year as a SrA and with the supervisor's recommendation, one was appointed to NCO status with the rank of Sergeant...aka, "buck sergeant". A sore spot was that this increase in responsibility came with no increase in pay. The rank of Sergeant was discontinued in the early '90s and thereafter, Senior Airmen tested for promotion to the first NCO grade, Staff Sergeant (E-5).


The term you're searching for is Space Ranger.

By history and tradition, I think that would be more appropriate for the U.S. Army, rather than the USMC. A quick Wikilook suggests that the term "ranger" isn't common in the Marines (or equivalent) of other countries, either.

Solfe
2018-Feb-08, 10:59 PM
As much as I like the name ¨Space Marine¨ and enjoy books and movies about them, I have a feeling that real marines in space would be much less of a combat asset than a control/function person. Space ships are hideously complex, and having a special group to oversee/guard/support operations would be kind of important. If the Marines morphed into that, it would be interesting. How hands on that job would be is really up in the air (space).

KaiYeves
2018-Feb-08, 11:16 PM
It's a little long, but here is a better translation:

太空海军陆战队

The way you translated it, Google used the meaning of "marine" as in "marine biology". So the adjective form of sea.

When my brothers and I were younger, we frequently visited Long Island's Atlantis Marine World Aquarium (now the Long Island Aquarium), so they became familiar with that meaning of "marine". While watching a TV show that mentioned "marines", my little brother P. therefore quite sensibly told me that "Marines are people who work at aquariums."

Sometimes I still bring it up with him as a funny childhood story.

swampyankee
2018-Feb-08, 11:37 PM
As much as I like the name ¨Space Marine¨ and enjoy books and movies about them, I have a feeling that real marines in space would be much less of a combat asset than a control/function person. Space ships are hideously complex, and having a special group to oversee/guard/support operations would be kind of important. If the Marines morphed into that, it would be interesting. How hands on that job would be is really up in the air (space).

Part -- a small part -- of the reason marines were on ship were to guard officer country, but the real reasons were a) shooting at the seaman handling the sails and rigging and the deck officers <added in edit>of enemy ships </added in edit> b) boarding parties and c) landing parties.

During the imperialistic era, that last became most important.

grant hutchison
2018-Feb-08, 11:48 PM
Part -- a small part -- of the reason marines were on ship were to guard officer country, but the real reasons were a) shooting at the seaman handling the sails and rigging and the deck officers ...I had to read that a few times. This is shooting at the seamen and officers on another, enemy ship. Yes?

Grant Hutchison

Jens
2018-Feb-09, 12:11 AM
I had to read that a few times. This is shooting at the seamen and officers on another, enemy ship. Yes?


I hope so too. I guess the other possibility is that it was to encourage their own men to work faster. Kind of like how an Australian friend told me that they are good at Olympic swimming because they put crocodiles into the school swimming pools.

Solfe
2018-Feb-09, 01:42 AM
I had to read that a few times. This is shooting at the seamen and officers on another, enemy ship. Yes?

Grant Hutchison

Very true in some cases, but not always. Marines shooting into the rigging of enemy ships was a very good tactic. I am really sure the marines would rather do that than many of the other things that can happen on a ship. Battleship Potemkin started with a mutiny. The marines should be shooting the sailors, but don´t. The film is fictionalized and really over the top. I can´t say it´s a good movie, but I´ve seen it several times.

I would think that in real life, most sailors who mutiny refuse to work rather than stage a takeover. That is more an issue of conduct rather than shooting. Maybe they get arrested. Another thing I have noticed is most ships have very little capacity to lock people up. The poor marines probably have to dog that person until they get someplace where they can turn the mutineer over. That must be tiresome.

Being pressed into fire duty (marine or otherwise) must be the worst situation.

grant hutchison
2018-Feb-09, 01:49 AM
Very true in some cases, but not always.I think "shooting at the seamen handling the sails and rigging" is probably only ever a good idea if they're enemy sailors handling another ship.

Grant Hutchison

swampyankee
2018-Feb-09, 03:24 AM
I had to read that a few times. This is shooting at the seamen and officers on another, enemy ship. Yes?

Grant Hutchison

erh, yes
I'm going to fix that.....

WaxRubiks
2018-Feb-09, 03:28 AM
The Black Berets?

:rimshot:

Jens
2018-Feb-09, 03:56 AM
The Black Berets?


Assuming they have heads!

SkepticJ
2018-Feb-09, 04:04 AM
Assuming they have heads!

Have you ever met someone that didn't have a head?

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-09, 05:25 AM
The Black Berets?

:rimshot:

Standard U.S. Army headgear unless approved for another, such as the Green Beret.

Jens
2018-Feb-09, 06:01 AM
Have you ever met someone that didn't have a head?

Well I was kind of joking. The question was:


What would we actually call a space marine? If we ever actually had them?

So I was just imagining that by the time we get them, they might not be human, but might be some characters out of Star Wars. Jokingly, but I didn't leave a smiley so I guess it's my fault. :)

Glom
2018-Feb-09, 08:02 AM
If the whole point is that a marine is a soldier on a marine vessel, then a soldier on a space vessel would be an astro surely.

Jens
2018-Feb-09, 08:48 AM
If the whole point is that a marine is a soldier on a marine vessel, then a soldier on a space vessel would be an astro surely.

No, it would be a "space." :)

Heid the Ba'
2018-Feb-09, 09:39 AM
It's a little long, but here is a better translation:

太空海军陆战队

The way you translated it, Google used the meaning of "marine" as in "marine biology". So the adjective form of sea.

Thanks, I just went with a quick and dirty google translation to suggest that they might not be named in English. Wiki suggests : 中国人民解放军海军陆战队 but that should probably have "space" put in there for completeness.

swampyankee
2018-Feb-09, 09:53 AM
The Black Berets?

:rimshot:
Already used by for decades by, for example British armored regiments.

Of course, the space marines may be robots. What would their paint job look like?

Heid the Ba'
2018-Feb-09, 09:57 AM
Ahem, armoured.

swampyankee
2018-Feb-09, 11:24 AM
Ahem, armoured.

Royal Armoured Corps, then.

Black berets are worn by a lot of armored units starting well before the US Army used them. The British adopted them from the French in WWI

Jens
2018-Feb-09, 12:12 PM
Wiki suggests : 中国人民解放军海军陆战队 but that should probably have "space" put in there for completeness.

Well, that one’s long but also a bit limiting. The first seven characters there read:

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army.

So that phrase would mean the Chinese Marines.

SkepticJ
2018-Feb-10, 03:38 AM
By history and tradition, I think that would be more appropriate for the U.S. Army, rather than the USMC. A quick Wikilook suggests that the term "ranger" isn't common in the Marines (or equivalent) of other countries, either.

Toy Story reference.

Since it's space why would Marines' training be more applicable to their deployment environment than Army or Navy or Airforce? Space soldiers would most likely belong to a Space Corps, Space Force, whatever, and their training would be like a cross between astronaut training and Army/Navy/Marines boot camp. They could be called Space Rangers, Starship Troopers, or whatever the brass thought sounded cool and tough and dignified.

PetersCreek
2018-Feb-10, 05:15 AM
They could be called Space Rangers, Starship Troopers, or whatever the brass thought sounded cool and tough and dignified.

You might be right, especially if they stand up a new service (or multinational force) for the mission. After all, they did just that when the U.S. Air Force was created. But the OP specifically mentioned marines/Marines, so I approached it from that angle...a U.S. angle since that’s what I have experience with. That is, if a particular service is tasked for space operations, I think it most likely they would retain the traditional title of Marine, soldier, airman, or seaman.

In a way, there is already a precedent: the U.S. Air Force Space Command. While subordinate units incorporate “space” into their designations...such as Space Wing...the service members are still collectively referred to as airmen. They’re still earthbound of course but would that change if they began conducting manned ops in space? Maybe but I doubt it. Not if they were still in the USAF chain of command. But then, I am not and never was “brass”.

schlaugh
2018-Feb-11, 03:54 PM
My recollection is that in the USAF at that time, E-4's were Sergeants.

No Time for E-4s, starring Andy Griffith!


Just doesn't have the same ring...

Delvo
2018-Feb-12, 03:03 AM
In "Avatar" the main character was referred to as a "Gyrine". I took it as a combination of "Marine" and "gyroscopic". I think he was also called "Marine" in another scene.

swampyankee
2018-Feb-12, 09:34 AM
In "Avatar" the main character was referred to as a "Gyrine". I took it as a combination of "Marine" and "gyroscopic". I think he was also called "Marine" in another scene.

I think “gyrine” is a a portmonteau of “GI” and “marine”; it predates the movie.

Noclevername
2018-Apr-16, 10:39 PM
I think we'd have to call them "space marines", no matter how little sense that actually makes.

Grant Hutchison

Right. We have "Air Cavalry" in our military, despite the lack of flying horses. Ditto the sport of "water polo" and rideable sea horses.

Heid the Ba'
2018-Apr-17, 12:28 PM
The "cavalry" part is their rôle, not what they are equipped with. Conversely in the Korean War the 1st US Cavalry Division was an infantry formation.

Noclevername
2018-Apr-17, 01:03 PM
The "cavalry" part is their rôle, not what they are equipped with. Conversely in the Korean War the 1st US Cavalry Division was an infantry formation.
But that's my point. The name does not match the original combat role anymore. Same with space "Marines" who might not serve on open water in their entire military career.

Heid the Ba'
2018-Apr-18, 08:21 AM
The name does match their rôle as they are recon. They perform the function of light cavalry.

Given the countries which are actually investing in space my latest suggestion would be: भारतीय नौसैनिकों

Noclevername
2018-Apr-18, 09:42 AM
The name does match their rôle as they are recon. They perform the function of light cavalry.


And Space Marines could perform the function of Marines. But in space.

Jens
2018-Apr-18, 10:08 AM
The name does match their rôle as they are recon. They perform the function of light cavalry.


But cavalry comes from caballus, which is Vulgar Latin for horse, so it seems strange to me, as a Romance language speaker, to use cavalry for soldiers who are not on horseback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

grant hutchison
2018-Apr-18, 12:13 PM
But cavalry comes from caballus, which is Vulgar Latin for horse, so it seems strange to me, as a Romance language speaker, to use cavalry for soldiers who are not on horseback.How about someone with a cavalier attitude who doesn't even have a horse? That's pretty cavalier, I'd say.

Grant Hutchison

Jens
2018-Apr-18, 01:05 PM
How about someone with a cavalier attitude who doesn't even have a horse? That's pretty cavalier, I'd say.


I agree. I’m not arguing that the meanings of words cannot go beyond their original meanings. Not at all. I was just arguing about what the original meaning of cavalry was. I got the impression that the poster was arguing that it meant reconnaissance.


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Heid the Ba'
2018-Apr-19, 08:23 AM
I agree. I’m not arguing that the meanings of words cannot go beyond their original meanings. Not at all. I was just arguing about what the original meaning of cavalry was. I got the impression that the poster was arguing that it meant reconnaissance.

I was pointing out that in current US military usage some reconnaissance units are called cavalry regardless of what they are equipped with as reconnaissance was traditionally a light cavalry function. In other armies like the British, Indian and Pakistani "cavalry" simply means armoured.

As for cavaliers, they are wrong but wromantic.

grant hutchison
2018-Apr-19, 10:52 AM
As for cavaliers, they are wrong but wromantic.The sometimes-quite-funny Cunk on Britain recently described Roundheads vs. Cavaliers as "Like a fight between Wayne Rooney and Noel Fielding." But I digress.

Grant Hutchison

Jens
2018-Apr-19, 01:58 PM
The sometimes-quite-funny Cunk on Britain recently described Roundheads vs. Cavaliers as "Like a fight between Wayne Rooney and Noel Fielding." But I digress.


I’m sure it’s funny if you have any idea who Wayne Rooney and Noel Fielding are. But as I’ve never heard of either of them, I’m afraid it went over my head.


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KaiYeves
2018-Apr-19, 04:39 PM
I’m sure it’s funny if you have any idea who Wayne Rooney and Noel Fielding are. But as I’ve never heard of either of them, I’m afraid it went over my head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn’t it CQ protocol to nod politely when others make jokes you don’t understand and then try to look up the names? That’s what I’ve been doing for ten years.

In this case, they seem from a quick search to be a soccer player and a comic actor, respectively.

grant hutchison
2018-Apr-19, 05:10 PM
Honestly, it doesn't help to look them up. It needs more context than you'll find in an on-line search.

(I'd assumed the protocol was to just ignore the jokes you don't get - that's what I do, anyway.)

Grant Hutchison