PDA

View Full Version : Are people redeemable



The Backroad Astronomer
2018-Mar-15, 05:49 AM
One of the thoughts keeping me up lately is that are people redeemable. I mean can people make peace between each other.
If someone said something they really should not have or said it a different way to some can the two become friends again.
Or
If a group of people made up rumors about someone that weren't true, can peace be made if they apologize.

What is line of where you can not make peace with one another?

WaxRubiks
2018-Mar-15, 06:55 AM
oh sure, forgiveness is possible, but might not be permanent.
I might forgive someone something one day, and the next day want them cast into the abyss.

We are just great apes in the ape family...and we should remember that...not automatons.

Swift
2018-Mar-15, 12:52 PM
Some are, some aren't.

Trebuchet
2018-Mar-15, 02:38 PM
Most people are redeemable. Sometimes I'm not so sure about humanity.

Spacedude
2018-Mar-15, 02:55 PM
If these people were close to begin with then redemption is possible with a sincere apology, an admission of wrongdoing, and true effort to correct their mistake.

But it's always best to save the receipt to make sure you get a refund.

BigDon
2018-Mar-15, 03:01 PM
Astro! Ya changed your name and it threw me a moment!

Yes, a lot of times they can be. And in general human beings are worth saving. I've seen people pulled from the very lip of the abyss become remarkably good people if given a chance. Including a guy who had done two terms in San Quentin, a four year stretch then an eight year sentence some years later.(I never asked him why.) He was surely tired of prison life by then. And of the criminal life in general. By the time I retired he was a married home owner and making more money a year than most of you reading this. Low six figures. (The class A driver's license isn't called a Texas Ph.D. for nothing!)

But you'd be amazed at your own response to somebody you've known personally for a long time being credibly accused of either forcible rape or first degree murder. I've known people accused of both crimes. Barriers and walls you didn't know you had spring up all of a sudden. Especially if the person in question hasn't had a chat with the authorities yet.

Gillianren
2018-Mar-15, 04:17 PM
But, sigh, it surely does have to be forcible rape to get the reaction, and just coercing or drugging someone they know doesn't tend to count. Which is one of those things that makes me worry about humanity sometimes.

But in general, yes, I believe that people are redeemable. I also believe there are exceptions. Frankly, I believe I'm related to one--and even she is in many ways a productive member of society; it's just that she's never going to be over certain patterns of thought that make her not a great person. No matter how much work she does with school children in need of one-on-one aides, I'm still going to be hoping those kids don't have much of value in their backpacks or their teachers in their classrooms. But maybe I'm wrong and even that has changed. Certainly, though, My Sister The Sociopath is an exception, and by and large, even a childhood pattern of petty theft isn't enough for me to declare a person irredeemable; her childhood friend and partner in crime went to Julliard and so far as I know is a decent person, now that he's not being egged on by her and vice versa.

BigDon
2018-Mar-15, 04:55 PM
Why are you picking a fight with me Miss Gillian? Go back and read my post again. I was referring specifically to people I knew personally who stood accused of forcible rape. Three men altogether, truth be told. Only one was guilty. I haven't known anybody accused of the other two things.

The Backroad Astronomer
2018-Mar-16, 11:41 AM
I think people are redeemable at least I hope so for the most part. But I guess first you have to recognize you wrong someone first but some people just don't care about others feelings.

WaxRubiks
2018-Mar-16, 01:00 PM
I think people are redeemable at least I hope so for the most part. But I guess first you have to recognize you wrong someone first but some people just don't care about others feelings.

I think there is a culture of demonisation in society, which forces people to be defensive, which become internalised in a world view that they are not to blame for anything, they become insensitive to feelings in general. Maybe if they could take a step back and realise the damage that had been done to them, and accept that they are also a victim of this world, rather than be on the defensive all the time,and have to justify their misdeeds, they could then maybe develop some empathy for the people that they had hurt, themselves.

The Backroad Astronomer
2018-Mar-16, 01:31 PM
I think there is a culture of demonisation in society, which forces people to be defensive, which become internalised in a world view that they are not to blame for anything, they become insensitive to feelings in general. Maybe if they could take a step back and realise the damage that had been done to them, and accept that they are also a victim of this world, rather than be on the defensive all the time,and have to justify their misdeeds, they could then maybe develop some empathy for the people that they had hurt, themselves.
We are a combination of nature, nurture and memories.

Gillianren
2018-Mar-16, 03:57 PM
Why are you picking a fight with me Miss Gillian? Go back and read my post again. I was referring specifically to people I knew personally who stood accused of forcible rape. Three men altogether, truth be told. Only one was guilty. I haven't known anybody accused of the other two things.

You should know that, for some people, "forcible rape" is often code for "the only kind that counts." Meaning their stories aren't considered important. As if forcible rape is somehow worse, which not all people believe; a lot of people think the violation of trust is worse. This includes most of the rape victims of my acquaintance.

Swift
2018-Mar-16, 05:08 PM
<snip>
But you'd be amazed at your own response to somebody you've known personally for a long time being credibly accused of either forcible rape or first degree murder. I've known people accused of both crimes. Barriers and walls you didn't know you had spring up all of a sudden. Especially if the person in question hasn't had a chat with the authorities yet.

You should know that, for some people, "forcible rape" is often code for "the only kind that counts." Meaning their stories aren't considered important. As if forcible rape is somehow worse, which not all people believe; a lot of people think the violation of trust is worse. This includes most of the rape victims of my acquaintance.
Could I ask both of you to drop the discussion of rape. I don't think this is an appropriate topic for CQ.

Thanks,

Solfe
2018-Mar-16, 08:15 PM
We are just great apes in the ape family...and we should remember that...not automatons.

People are flexible to an extent. I wouldn't want to judge someone else's choices in how they make peace. Some people are pretty incredible or amazing.

Not me, I seem to be some sort of lesser ape. So it's just me and the gibbons. :)

Noclevername
2018-Apr-16, 08:43 PM
Not me, I seem to be some sort of lesser ape. So it's just me and the gibbons. :)

Watch out for gibbons, they may make you Decline And Fall.

ozduck
2018-Apr-17, 07:39 AM
Watch out for gibbons, they may make you Decline And Fall.

Especially if they are funky gibbons - probably only makes sense to people of a certain age & nationality who remember The Goodies.

Heid the Ba'
2018-Apr-17, 08:59 AM
Fortunately we are here to show them how.

swampyankee
2018-Apr-17, 10:55 AM
Are people redeemable?

Like soda cans?

“Redeemable” strikes me as a religious/philosophical/ideological issue. I would say “yes,” but, again, while it’s an extremely important question with vast social implications, many people chose an answer without thinking.

gzhpcu
2018-Apr-17, 03:22 PM
Depends. What I can not forgive is someone being mean to a person I love and not apologizing. My wife’s daughter-in-law wrote an insulting whatsapp message to my wife. For peace in the family, my wife approached her and had to swallow the insult. I do not forgive her and never will until she apologizes (which she won’t..).

DaveC426913
2018-Apr-17, 03:44 PM
oh sure, forgiveness is possible, but might not be permanent.
I might forgive someone something one day, and the next day want them cast into the abyss.

Then, by definition, you haven't forgiven them.:)

SkepticJ
2018-Apr-17, 08:41 PM
Then, by definition, you haven't forgiven them.:)

Or they were forgiven once, and they offended again the next day.

Noclevername
2018-Apr-17, 11:39 PM
Can people make peace between each other? Well, after a million years of violence we're still here and still social, so some of us can manage it.

swampyankee
2018-Apr-18, 12:06 AM
I think most definitions of redemption require some form of atonement, which is not the same as punishment, as someone can be punished without atoning. Forgiveness is a voluntary grant by the victim and not the same as redemption.