PDA

View Full Version : Solar wind airboat



JHotz
2005-Mar-14, 05:26 AM
Everyone knows about solar sails. If solar wind is a medium then maybe the equivalent of a motorboat is possible.

Ion drives work by creating ions the expelling them with a magnetic field.

In space the sun produces a steady flow of charged particle. They are everywhere.

I have talked about magnetic shields to protect spaceships from charged particles by directing them around the craft.

If these magnetic fields direct the charged particles behind the ship it will produce thrust for the ship.

Perhaps this concept could scale beyong ships. Could a planets magnetic field be manipulated to provide a planet with thrust. Perhaps the planet could direct the particles in a stream that ships could be released into the ship could ride along.

I welcome you thoughts on these ideas.

lord bytor
2005-Mar-15, 12:53 AM
Actually solar sails use light pressure rather than the solar wind for propulsion. I don't think the solar wind would provide nearly enough thrust to accomplish most of these things.

Here's a page on solar sails (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail)

JHotz
2005-Mar-15, 02:56 AM
Actually solar sails use light pressure rather than the solar wind for propulsion. I don't think the solar wind would provide nearly enough thrust to accomplish most of these things.

You are correct sir.

Jpax2003
2005-Mar-15, 03:05 AM
Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_sail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion

I posted a hypothesis a few weeks ago suggesting a ring of elongated MMPP "blades" that could be spun and pitched to act as propellers. I don't know about planet propulsion, but feasible for smaller vessels.

JHotz
2005-Mar-15, 03:23 AM
Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_sail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion

I posted a hypothesis a few weeks ago suggesting a ring of elongated MMPP "blades" that could be spun and pitched to act as propellers. I don't know about planet propulsion, but feasible for smaller vessels.

Thank you for responding to my post.

Nice links. Now how far could this technology go with a good deal more power added. Perhaps an electron beam could be aimed at the ship from afar and the resulting negative potential will allow power to be extracted from the charged particles.

Jpax2003
2005-Mar-15, 03:40 AM
Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_sail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion

I posted a hypothesis a few weeks ago suggesting a ring of elongated MMPP "blades" that could be spun and pitched to act as propellers. I don't know about planet propulsion, but feasible for smaller vessels.

Thank you for responding to my post.

Nice links. Now how far could this technology go with a good deal more power added. Perhaps an electron beam could be aimed at the ship from afar and the resulting negative potential will allow power to be extracted from the charged particles.Possible perhaps, but an electron beam would be deflected by other magnetic fields such as earth and other planets. Moreover, I think the thrust from an MS or MMPP is based on the mass of the deflected particles, so the thrust would be less effective than and in opposition to the the positively charged protonic solar wind.

JHotz
2005-Mar-19, 04:15 AM
Possible perhaps, but an electron beam would be deflected by other magnetic fields such as earth and other planets. Moreover, I think the thrust from an MS or MMPP is based on the mass of the deflected particles, so the thrust would be less effective than and in opposition to the the positively charged protonic solar wind.Not for propulsion. I am assuming the charge particles are positive. The electron beam would give the vehicle a negative potential to use the get the energy out of the charged particles.

publiusr
2005-Mar-23, 08:15 PM
Not much money going to research these days...

nutant gene 71
2005-Mar-27, 03:32 AM
Here's somebody who says solar sails will not work: Solar sialing 'breaks laws of physics' (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3895&print=true), says Dr. Gold.

Is he right? Isn't it too slow anyway? Only good for solar system, it if works at all?

Van Rijn
2005-Mar-27, 07:30 AM
Here's somebody who says solar sails will not work: Solar sialing 'breaks laws of physics' (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3895&print=true), says Dr. Gold.


I remember that, and found it to be an extremely odd statement. It has been experimentally demonstrated in the lab and affects spacecraft trajectory. I mentioned Echo in another thread, which is a dramatic example, but it is a common issue.

Here's a comment I found on that issue:

http://www.solarsails.info/news/newscientistletter.html



Is he right? Isn't it too slow anyway? Only good for solar system, it if works at all?

Not sure what you are saying here. It takes a lot of surface area in the inner solar system to produce much thrust, but has the advantage of not requiring onboard fuel. There has been some thought of laser assisted sails for star travel that could get a probe up to 10% or 20% of light speed or extreme "deep dives" (very close to the sun) that might accelerate a probe fast enough to reach Alpha Centauri in 1000 years. That's pretty impressive, actually, but this is all very speculative at this point. Near term, sails could be useful for planetary probes.

JHotz
2005-Mar-30, 10:38 PM
Here's somebody who says solar sails will not work: Solar sialing 'breaks laws of physics' (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3895&print=true), says Dr. Gold.

Is he right? Isn't it too slow anyway? Only good for solar system, it if works at all?Most of the heat lost by objects in space is radiant. So is a system could be developed to radiate in one direction for the most part. This should provide a thrust comparable to that lost when the light heats up the mirror.

Space Monkey
2005-Mar-31, 05:05 AM
Could a planets magnetic field be manipulated to provide a planet with thrust. Perhaps the planet could direct the particles in a stream that ships could be released into the ship could ride along.



WHAT?
You want the planet to funnel a particle stream? Or are you saying the entire planet could be a spaceship?

Tron vs. Cold Dead world?

Which is it?

Thanks for clarifying in advance.

JHotz
2005-Apr-04, 03:15 AM
Could a planets magnetic field be manipulated to provide a planet with thrust. Perhaps the planet could direct the particles in a stream that ships could be released into the ship could ride along.



WHAT?
You want the planet to funnel a particle stream? Or are you saying the entire planet could be a spaceship?

Tron vs. Cold Dead world?

Which is it?
Thanks for clarifying in advance.
Thank you for responding to my post.

I wanted to initiate a dialogue on both possibilities.